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The reason for poor isk in NEW missions

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Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.03.21 17:50:00 - [31] Edited by: Andrue on 21/03/2007 17:47:47 Originally by: Vinmier From the way I understand it, they factor in the start time, and the time completed. So if the average person salvages the mission (since it has to be salvaged before completion), then yes, it takes into account salvage time. edit: To be more on point, CCP doesn't need to factor in salvaging by itself, since the mission has to be salvaged before it's completed. No it doesn't - where did you get that idea from? The only time I salvage before completing is when I forget the objective and have to take it out with my salvager ship or when it's too far away and I don't want to waste time flying my Raven over to it. My standard practice with missions is to set a BM when I'm in the largest group of wrecks then I fly back to it when the mission has been completed. Wrecks outlast the mission so if I have completed the objectives and picked up any special loot I go back to the agent, complete the mission and switch to my Lootageddon. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] Please don't read this signature.
Bach Atreides 21st Centauri Lancers	Posted - 2007.03.21 17:52:00 - [32] Edited by: Bach Atreides on 21/03/2007 17:49:35 From the way I understand it, they factor in the start time, and the time completed. So if the average person salvages the mission (since it has to be salvaged before completion), then yes, it takes into account salvage time. edit: To be more on point, CCP doesn't need to factor in salvaging by itself, since the mission has to be salvaged before it's completed. Missions have to be salvaged BEFORE completion now???!!!???
Remedios Sonrisa Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.03.21 18:06:00 - [33] Originally by: Bach Atreides Missions have to be salvaged BEFORE completion now???!!!??? NO. I salvaged after receiving my reward from my agent last evening. Unless that has changed the last 20 or so hours, the answer to your question is a definitive no. ....
Borasao	Posted - 2007.03.21 18:32:00 - [34] Originally by: Tecro Nashota Originally by: Borasao I guess I'll be waiting for a few downtimes before resuming missioning then. I think you are going to have to actually do some missions to get the rewards and lp's up. Zero multiplied by something is still zero Yes and no. Yes, exactly, I think that boycotting the mission changes would be a great idea, but it won't fly because there will be someone who will do them. And, no, I'm more than willing to let the eager-beavers go out and slog out the missions for little reward while reporting what to expect to the various gaming sites so I can go into them better prepared and get more LP/reward for my in-game time.
Malena Perpetual Dawn	Posted - 2007.03.21 18:41:00 - [35] Originally by: Zrakor Also there is a bit of misconception about the ISK 'nerf' in missions. There are no plans to nerf ISK in missions per se, we simply won't make the new levels (5,6,7) give rediculous amounts of ISK. Rather they will focus more on giving out items, which the high end players will then sell to other players for ISK. So you'll still have people farming missions and belts and complexes for ISK, but when doing the high-end content it will be mainly for items not ISK. I would just like it noted that we are now returning to the early days of EVE when you received such and such amounts of ammo or warp core stabilizers, passive targetters, etc. Later on it became tech 2 components, then nothing because of the way the distribution was working. So now we are working on completing the circle.
Ralara Caldari Ralara Corp	Posted - 2007.03.21 18:56:00 - [36] Originally by: Borasao Originally by: Tecro Nashota Originally by: Borasao I guess I'll be waiting for a few downtimes before resuming missioning then. I think you are going to have to actually do some missions to get the rewards and lp's up. Zero multiplied by something is still zero Yes and no. Yes, exactly, I think that boycotting the mission changes would be a great idea, but it won't fly because there will be someone who will do them. And, no, I'm more than willing to let the eager-beavers go out and slog out the missions for little reward while reporting what to expect to the various gaming sites so I can go into them better prepared and get more LP/reward for my in-game time. coward :p Where's your sense of adventure? And rewards are low?? You can make 20-50m a mission, an extra 1m in reward and bonus is nothing in comparison! Try them. Get a challenge. It's people with your attitude who the PvPers are always complaining about - carebaring to the Xtreme! Why do you even play this game?
Susan Acid Gallente	Posted - 2007.03.21 19:45:00 - [37] Originally by: Remedios Sonrisa Originally by: Bach Atreides Missions have to be salvaged BEFORE completion now???!!!??? NO. I salvaged after receiving my reward from my agent last evening. Unless that has changed the last 20 or so hours, the answer to your question is a definitive no. I thought a mission 'despawned' once you had told the agent you had completed it and collected the reward?I always worked the bonus out on the time between accepting the mission and then telling the agent I've finished.Or do I just need to achieve all mission objectives and I get the bonus irrespective of when I actually tell the agent I'm done? Have I got it wrong?Should my next post just say Doh!
Ehranavaar	Posted - 2007.03.21 20:11:00 - [38] Originally by: Susan Acid I do use a Destroyer(4 TB's and 4 salvagers) to salvage but it still takes extra time.My question should have been: when these missions were made and the bonus time worked out was it before salvaging was in game.A mission which came out with the RMR patch wouldnt have to account for salvaging when the time bonus was worked out.It would be nice to know if CCP see salvaging as part of the mission or 'optional' so to speak.[/quote if you book mark a wreck in each chamber you can go back and do your salvaging after you turn in the mission. as a perk if you do this there are no more pesky and time consuming accel gates to navigate.
hotgirl933	Posted - 2007.03.21 21:35:00 - [39] look at it this way its an anti ISK farming measure, instead of simply going for as much ISK as players can handle youre average mission runner will end up with items that can be melted ( it will encourage industry) in eve asset inflation is being looked at - to much ISK ( removing time based non ISK rewards was a dumb move CCP) that said it will encourage more looting/salvage which as long as its not to time consuming will be the way forward. Those items in youre hanger can be used for selling ( CCP good move by the way)
Hait	Posted - 2007.03.21 22:45:00 - [40] Originally by: Susan Acid Originally by: Remedios Sonrisa Originally by: Bach Atreides Missions have to be salvaged BEFORE completion now???!!!??? I thought a mission 'despawned' once you had told the agent you had completed it and collected the reward? Exactly, means you can go back and salvage with an mwd ship - wrecks are still there, on a two hour timer.

Galk Gallente Autumn Tactics All the things she said	Posted - 2007.03.22 00:42:00 - [41] 'Doom' I think you fail to understand the complete shift in the demographic. Ill call it simple, people sitting pretty with isk and means to replenish on a personal term, don't seem to understand the statement zakohor has actualy made... Im viewing it as probaly the most significant thing since i started out.... Incase it wasn't obvious, there's a near complete shift (from those words) to a complete player run utopia like economy... far and away from what is now... aka the isk from thin air grinder. I wanted to draw attention in my previous post to the fact that eve/the game still requires you to be selfish (wrong dirty wording i know) but don't i know it... as much as i do for others... with my front foot, the head allways kicks in and tells me to ignore everything else from time to time to move myself. Used timecodes as example, peoples now first thought is grabbing 150 million isk to pay for there sub for a month.... easy yeah... Future told in a world that doesn't evolve around insta pop'ing isk... that might be a problem. Everybody doing it... as i said.... personal worth yes (or your group).... everybody else, no. Whats coming, if what he says has any meaning, is a whole new way....... ______
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.03.22 01:45:00 - [42] Originally by: Galk 'Doom' I think you fail to understand the complete shift in the demographic Ill call it simple, people sitting pretty with isk and means to replenish on a personal term, don't seem to understand the statement zakohor has actualy made... Im viewing it as probaly the most significant thing since i started out.... Incase it wasn't obvious, there's a near complete shift (from those words) to a complete player run utopia like economy... far and away from what is now... aka the isk from thin air grinder. You're reading a lot into it, considering all the qualifiers in the original statement. What Zrakor said was... Quote: Also there is a bit of misconception about the ISK 'nerf' in missions. There are no plans to nerf ISK in missions per se, we simply won't make the new levels (5,6,7) give rediculous amounts of ISK. Rather they will focus more on giving out items, which the high end players will then sell to other players for ISK. So you'll still have people farming missions and belts and complexes for ISK, but when doing the high-end content it will be mainly for items not ISK. Some key points: ...L5-7 only... ...not "ridiculous amounts of isk" i.e., still some isk will be involved ..."they will focus more on giving out items" not entirely on giving out items... ..."you'll still have people farming missions and belts and complexes for ISK"... The indications are that this won't be as enormous a sea change as you think. Also, unless things change a lot in LowSec and there's a big change in the general mission runner mentality, some large portion of the population isn't going to be running these new missions fulltime anyway. Of course there will be changes in the economy--that seems to be part of the intent. But a lot of the predictions seem way overblown based on the limited information we have. Your ideas about it are interesting though. I guess it's clearer to me now why they don't want to put these missions in HiSec. They almost can't. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Ohoboho	Posted - 2007.03.22 08:49:00 - [43] If the missions drop stuff for making t2 production easier - OK - NO problem. Who needs the isk when one can make the things himself. Loot to reprocess and so on. Who needs 100m to buy someting when the protagonist can get 100m of stuff and turn it into the "something" the one wants to have. Skipping the market and fighting inflation :)
Codiya Daptari	Posted - 2007.03.22 11:05:00 - [44] Originally by: Zrakor Also there is a bit of misconception about the ISK 'nerf' in missions. There are no plans to nerf ISK in missions per se, we simply won't make the new levels (5,6,7) give rediculous amounts of ISK. Rather they will focus more on giving out items, which the high end players will then sell to other players for ISK. So you'll still have people farming missions and belts and complexes for ISK, but when doing the high-end content it will be mainly for items not ISK. Sounds very interesting, can't wait to try those!
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.03.22 11:29:00 - [45] Originally by: Zrakor Also there is a bit of misconception about the ISK 'nerf' in missions. There are no plans to nerf ISK in missions per se, we simply won't make the new levels (5,6,7) give rediculous amounts of ISK. Rather they will focus more on giving out items, which the high end players will then sell to other players for ISK. So you'll still have people farming missions and belts and complexes for ISK, but when doing the high-end content it will be mainly for items not ISK. Witout wanting to antagonize you, as programs can have changed, the original blog was saying that: 1) some missions will be moved to level 5 (the more recent blog a put a hold on that); 2) the new mission added will not have bountyes as the target will be mostly Empire faction ships. Evidently if a player is picking the missions only for the isk bounties he will discard the missions without bounties. As those will be more diluited in a larger pool of missions F will be a bit slower as he will need more ofthen to change agents, but the difference would be almost insignificant. A player like me that prefer to try all the mission he get, and that want to try the faction warfare when that will be implemented, will get less isk and (I hope) better loot. In the end the isk inflow will be reduced a bit, but the amount of the reduction is dependant on the player choices. Can you explain the part of the blog about the LP store being a isk sink? We will need to pay the items in LP and isk?
Brathi Bubuka	Posted - 2007.03.22 13:59:00 - [46] Originally by: Zrakor Also there is a bit of misconception about the ISK 'nerf' in missions. There are no plans to nerf ISK in missions per se, we simply won't make the new levels (5,6,7) give rediculous amounts of ISK. Rather they will focus more on giving out items, which the high end players will then sell to other players for ISK. So you'll still have people farming missions and belts and complexes for ISK, but when doing the high-end content it will be mainly for items not ISK. Well, atm I'd like to see ANYTHING in ANY lvl mission, that even has the SLIGHTEST of hint of value.
Ladyah Liandri VMF-214 Blacksheep	Posted - 2007.03.22 14:24:00 - [47] Originally by: Brathi Bubuka Originally by: Zrakor Also there is a bit of misconception about the ISK 'nerf' in missions. There are no plans to nerf ISK in missions per se, we simply won't make the new levels (5,6,7) give rediculous amounts of ISK. Rather they will focus more on giving out items, which the high end players will then sell to other players for ISK. So you'll still have people farming missions and belts and complexes for ISK, but when doing the high-end content it will be mainly for items not ISK. Well, atm I'd like to see ANYTHING in ANY lvl mission, that even has the SLIGHTEST of hint of value. /signed And while we're at it ... why again have I skilled the freakishly overpriced Connection skills (Military, High Tech, etc.)?
Tyler Lowe Minmatar DROW Org	Posted - 2007.03.22 15:11:00 - [48] Originally by: Zrakor Also there is a bit of misconception about the ISK 'nerf' in missions. There are no plans to nerf ISK in missions per se, we simply won't make the new levels (5,6,7) give rediculous amounts of ISK. Rather they will focus more on giving out items, which the high end players will then sell to other players for ISK. So you'll still have people farming missions and belts and complexes for ISK, but when doing the high-end content it will be mainly for items not ISK. Zrakor, thank you for taking the time to clarify this point. The previous dev blogs left some ambiguity on this subject, including the most recent one. Perhaps this should be tacked on to the feedback thread on the mission changes blogs so avoid unneccesary angst over the mission changes. For those worried about a flooded market of new mission rewards: Considering the many. many pages of feedback indicating how many people will take a pass on the new level 5 and above content, I sincerely doubt we need to fear a flooded market when it comes to any new goodies handed out on missions. As actually getting these items, per the dev blogs, will require venturing into lowsec with mission running setups, and potentially group effort by capital ships (and the risk of losing capitals to gangs of pirate capitals), the rarity of such items seems a near given IMO. Conatus Quod Virtus Es Non Satis Absentis Propositum Quod Discessio
Commodore Yan	Posted - 2007.03.22 15:39:00 - [49] Can someone please tell me (if anyone knows), how long the wrecks last for before they go "pop". The idea of bookmarking the chambers and coming back after mission complete in a lootermobile sounds great, but won't time be of the essence ?
Tyler Lowe Minmatar DROW Org	Posted - 2007.03.22 15:58:00 - [50] Originally by: Commodore Yan Can someone please tell me (if anyone knows), how long the wrecks last for before they go "pop". The idea of bookmarking the chambers and coming back after mission complete in a lootermobile sounds great, but won't time be of the essence ? Same as jet cans. They last about an hour. Conatus Quod Virtus Es Non Satis Absentis Propositum Quod Discessio

Solariian Lytebringer	Posted - 2007.03.22 17:17:00 - [51] Edited by: Solariian Lytebringer on 22/03/2007 17:13:55 Originally by: Vinmier edit: To be more on point, CCP doesn't need to factor in salvaging by itself, since the mission has to be salvaged before it's completed. Actually, you can bookmark your mission, or each room if its a large one, like Guristas Extravaganza, get your reward, then fly back and loot to your hearts content. Not sure, however, if this changes the time it takes fro wrecks to pop. Seems to me they last about the same amount of time as jet-cans (1hr + some random duration). Edit: nevermind, someone already pointed this out. /me makes note to read second page before quoting posts from the first.
Jollyreaper Gallente Ace Adventure Corp	Posted - 2007.03.22 19:48:00 - [52] Originally by: Zrakor Also there is a bit of misconception about the ISK 'nerf' in missions. There are no plans to nerf ISK in missions per se, we simply won't make the new levels (5,6,7) give rediculous amounts of ISK. Rather they will focus more on giving out items, which the high end players will then sell to other players for ISK. So you'll still have people farming missions and belts and complexes for ISK, but when doing the high-end content it will be mainly for items not ISK. I'm running the level 4 mission in the midst of deadspace 1/5 and there are NO bounties on any of the rats in the first room. This is intentional?
Jack StarMule Minmatar Minmatar Ship Construction Services	Posted - 2007.03.22 20:33:00 - [53] Originally by: Jollyreaper I'm running the level 4 mission in the midst of deadspace 1/5 and there are NO bounties on any of the rats in the first room. This is intentional? That is a Caldari Navy Mission. You never get bounties when fighting other Navies. Pick up the dogtags and sell them at a Fleet Station, that's your bounty.
Birthbaka	Posted - 2007.04.03 08:20:00 - [54] Originally by: Jack StarMule Originally by: Jollyreaper I'm running the level 4 mission in the midst of deadspace 1/5 and there are NO bounties on any of the rats in the first room. This is intentional? That is a Caldari Navy Mission. You never get bounties when fighting other Navies. Pick up the dogtags and sell them at a Fleet Station, that's your bounty. So the conclusions is: Don't do those missions. All you get is negative faction standing. Tags don't sell for crap.
Mastin Dragonfly Absolutely No Return	Posted - 2007.04.03 10:51:00 - [55] Originally by: Birthbaka So the conclusions is: Don't do those missions. All you get is negative faction standing. Tags don't sell for crap. The dogtags from lvl 4 Enemies Abound (the amarr/caldari counterpart of In the Midst of Deadspace) part 1, 3 and 4 together are over 30 million isk. If you feel that's crap you must be pretty whealthy.
OneSock PLuSQuAMPERFEkT iNc	Posted - 2007.04.03 12:25:00 - [56] Originally by: Tyler Lowe Originally by: Commodore Yan Can someone please tell me (if anyone knows), how long the wrecks last for before they go "pop". The idea of bookmarking the chambers and coming back after mission complete in a lootermobile sounds great, but won't time be of the essence ? Same as jet cans. They last about an hour. I have actually timed it at 1h 40 mins. And IME it's definitely more than 1 hour. If there is some variation in the timer I would say I have never had a problem even with longer missions.
OneSock PLuSQuAMPERFEkT iNc	Posted - 2007.04.03 12:29:00 - [57] Oh and regards the new missions. best solution is surely to farm them to get the rewards up. i.e. run the mission but leave the objective unmet. let the mission respawn at downtime and then run it again the next day. repeat until you have to finally close the mission before it expires. your not really losing anything unless you run multiple missions per day. I generally only do one large lv4 per day and fill in the remaining time with lv3 or other stuff.


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