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The reason for poor isk in NEW missions

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Ralara Caldari Ralara Corp	Posted - 2007.03.21 07:41:00 - [1] Edited by: Ralara on 21/03/2007 07:37:56 For those that don't know, apparently when a new mission comes out, the isk reward and bonus is set really low. As players do the mission, the game calculates things like how much DPS is given out by the player and ships, how much is tanked, how much ammo is used, how long the mission takes etc. It then adjusts the isk accordingly - the bonus and reward will start to increase over the next few downtimes I think. Just a FYI (since I didn't know this either!)
Radras	Posted - 2007.03.21 07:54:00 - [2] I hope to god this is true because if they remove the bounties like they were saying they are going to missions will be dead.
Ralara Caldari Ralara Corp	Posted - 2007.03.21 07:55:00 - [3] Originally by: Radras I hope to god this is true because if they remove the bounties like they were saying they are going to missions will be dead. It's true a dev/GM said so :) Also it's the reason for low LP on the new missions.
Viscount Stoko	Posted - 2007.03.21 09:19:00 - [4] Will the time allowed for a bonus reward change too? At the moment it seems a little on the mean side.
Emily Spankratchet Minmatar Pragmatics	Posted - 2007.03.21 09:25:00 - [5] Originally by: Viscount Stoko Will the time allowed for a bonus reward change too? At the moment it seems a little on the mean side. Yes, it will. Last time I heard a Dev talk on the subject (which was a while ago now), he said that the bonus time was based on the average time taken to complete the mission.
Loc Maythan Gallente Alfa00 Corp	Posted - 2007.03.21 10:00:00 - [6] Edited by: Loc Maythan on 21/03/2007 09:56:57 Seems to me that they should set new mission rewards either high (and adjust them down over time), or at least to a realistic starting value. Being offered 250 LP and a few 100,000 isk for taking on about 9 multiple-damage-type BSes, as I was last night, means that I put it on my refuse list. This is not a good way to encourage people to take up new missions. BTW, the mission I was offered was 'Gone Berserk', and had a 40 minute time reward deadline. Is this deadline also changed dynamically, do people know? If jamming in missions is now as common as it seems to be based on the missions I ran last night, 40 minutes is pretty tight for me to solo - about 4 minutes per BS even if I didn't have to worry about jamming, taking down cruisers, recalling drones because of new spawn, and getting back to station in different system. Maybe this is one of these 'gang missions' that are being talked about. Loc Edit: Sorry, just read the previous post which answered my time bonus question

Zrakor	Posted - 2007.03.21 10:07:00 - [7] Also there is a bit of misconception about the ISK 'nerf' in missions. There are no plans to nerf ISK in missions per se, we simply won't make the new levels (5,6,7) give rediculous amounts of ISK. Rather they will focus more on giving out items, which the high end players will then sell to other players for ISK. So you'll still have people farming missions and belts and complexes for ISK, but when doing the high-end content it will be mainly for items not ISK.

Kaptein Trefot	Posted - 2007.03.21 10:20:00 - [8] Originally by: Zrakor Also there is a bit of misconception about the ISK 'nerf' in missions. There are no plans to nerf ISK in missions per se, we simply won't make the new levels (5,6,7) give rediculous amounts of ISK. Rather they will focus more on giving out items, which the high end players will then sell to other players for ISK. So you'll still have people farming missions and belts and complexes for ISK, but when doing the high-end content it will be mainly for items not ISK. Does this mean that the current high sec level IV mission will, with a few exceptions, stay as it is with isk/bounty rewards and difficulty level after the announced changes to missions this summer? A simple yes or no to this question will clear up much confusion concerning future high sec missions.
Marquis Dean The Last Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2007.03.21 10:54:00 - [9] Originally by: Zrakor Also there is a bit of misconception about the ISK 'nerf' in missions. There are no plans to nerf ISK in missions per se, we simply won't make the new levels (5,6,7) give rediculous amounts of ISK. Rather they will focus more on giving out items, which the high end players will then sell to other players for ISK. So you'll still have people farming missions and belts and complexes for ISK, but when doing the high-end content it will be mainly for items not ISK. Is this forcing my to loot my missions then? --- Originally by: Foopadoo Hell hath no fury like an internet nerd scorned.
Galk Gallente Autumn Tactics All the things she said	Posted - 2007.03.21 10:58:00 - [10] Originally by: Zrakor Rather they will focus more on giving out items, which the high end players will then sell to other players for ISK. So you'll still have people farming missions and belts and complexes for ISK, but when doing the high-end content it will be mainly for items not ISK. Umm ok.... So everything/body that currently collects a isk bounty/payment for a npc kill will collect an item instead. So basicaly... the markets will be completely flooded with worthless items.... in the meantime your existance in eve still revolves around having to turn in isk to have any sort of fun in the game. Tbh i could see a utopia out of that way of thinking.... a world not revolving around isk.. everybody working together in groups suppling one another with items to achieve goals and ambitions... Wishfull thinking though im afraid to say... limiting factors that you yourself place in the game will never allow any of that utopian existance to florish.... you would either have to show the finger to the t2 market by making prices crash in line with peoples new found wealth, or make those drops better (ships included).... lovely way of thinking... don't see it happening though. needless to say... what about the timecode buyers/sellers.... you guys only allow it because you turn out money from it (reguardless of how it cheats honest players)... are you realy going to limit the spread of isk amoung the masses that require npc generated isk to pay for those timecodes they fuel their main/2nd/3rd/4th (up to 10) accounts with? Sounds like shooting yourself in the foot to me (you will lose your ever increasing subscriber rate, and obviously loss of flat revenue)... items will never generate the isk that comes from npc payments as they will become flooded and worthless (and the ones that don't will probaly be adjusted anyway) /re implants. Umm.. i smell doom i realy do, having less isk will make the game less fun for a lot of people for sure. ______
Kumu Honua	Posted - 2007.03.21 11:07:00 - [11] How is it doom? If you need isk, run level 1, 2, 3, 4 missions. Those will still give out isk rewards.
alisandent	Posted - 2007.03.21 11:38:00 - [12] doesn't really change anything though. just means itll take an extra step to get your isk reward. And with the higher lvl missions most likely requiring multiple people, itll really complicate everyone getting their due rewards...
Neener	Posted - 2007.03.21 12:05:00 - [13] Originally by: Zrakor Also there is a bit of misconception about the ISK 'nerf' in missions. There are no plans to nerf ISK in missions per se, we simply won't make the new levels (5,6,7) give rediculous amounts of ISK. Rather they will focus more on giving out items, which the high end players will then sell to other players for ISK. So you'll still have people farming missions and belts and complexes for ISK, but when doing the high-end content it will be mainly for items not ISK. Youre not afraid that this system will flood the market with those items? (ie: drop prices and make mission running suck).
Susan Acid Gallente	Posted - 2007.03.21 12:46:00 - [14] Originally by: Emily Spankratchet Originally by: Viscount Stoko Will the time allowed for a bonus reward change too? At the moment it seems a little on the mean side. Yes, it will. Last time I heard a Dev talk on the subject (which was a while ago now), he said that the bonus time was based on the average time taken to complete the mission. I wonder if they factored in the lost Hi-slot/DPS from fitting a salvager and the time it takes to perform the task of salvaging when they worked out the 'average' time.
Remedios Sonrisa Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.03.21 12:54:00 - [15] My only complaint about the ISK/LP rewards for the new missions do not seem to reflect the average, or even the lower threshold, values from missions of similar difficulty level. I like the idea of the self-adjusting values for mission payouts, but how does the calculation take into consideration the missions that will be farmed? I ran Gone Berserk, L4, last night and had a ball with it. But the bonus time was a mere 45 min and the reward was about 200 LPs. Given that there were FIFTEEN BSes (and other smaller ships), ranging from 500k to 1000k in bounty, which came in various times and distances, the given bonus time was simply unrealistic. Fortunately I was compensated by the fact that all ships left loot. ....
Dethis Caldari Obliteration Unlimited	Posted - 2007.03.21 12:54:00 - [16] Originally by: Zrakor Also there is a bit of misconception about the ISK 'nerf' in missions. There are no plans to nerf ISK in missions per se, we simply won't make the new levels (5,6,7) give rediculous amounts of ISK. Rather they will focus more on giving out items, which the high end players will then sell to other players for ISK. So you'll still have people farming missions and belts and complexes for ISK, but when doing the high-end content it will be mainly for items not ISK. Does this mean lvl 1-4 will retain the bounty's? if so thank you because that was my main concern with lvl 4's (losing bountys and no change to loot would = exercise in futility) -------- Kill em all and let god sort em out
Minerva Radisky Caldari The Arcanum	Posted - 2007.03.21 13:02:00 - [17] Originally by: Neener Originally by: Zrakor Also there is a bit of misconception about the ISK 'nerf' in missions. There are no plans to nerf ISK in missions per se, we simply won't make the new levels (5,6,7) give rediculous amounts of ISK. Rather they will focus more on giving out items, which the high end players will then sell to other players for ISK. So you'll still have people farming missions and belts and complexes for ISK, but when doing the high-end content it will be mainly for items not ISK. Youre not afraid that this system will flood the market with those items? (ie: drop prices and make mission running suck). I'm thinking the new missions will consist of a lot of named and possibly officer/faction loot. Arbalest heavies for less than 10mil or some other absurd prices? yes plz
Borasao	Posted - 2007.03.21 13:17:00 - [18] I guess I'll be waiting for a few downtimes before resuming missioning then.
Kery Nysell Caldari Nysell Incorporated	Posted - 2007.03.21 13:22:00 - [19] Originally by: Susan Acid Originally by: Emily Spankratchet Originally by: Viscount Stoko Will the time allowed for a bonus reward change too? At the moment it seems a little on the mean side. Yes, it will. Last time I heard a Dev talk on the subject (which was a while ago now), he said that the bonus time was based on the average time taken to complete the mission. I wonder if they factored in the lost Hi-slot/DPS from fitting a salvager and the time it takes to perform the task of salvaging when they worked out the 'average' time. Don't do that to your ships, you're gimping your combat setup ... but that's only my opinion, I find that a dedicated mission ship and a dedicated salvaging/looting ship works better for me ... And AFAIK, the update is based on the time between "mission accepted" and "mission completed" in the agent's dialog ... so yes, it would be taken into account if you take more time before telling your agent you've done the job.
Domitianvs Amarr MCL Industries	Posted - 2007.03.21 15:49:00 - [20] Quote: I wonder if they factored in the lost Hi-slot/DPS from fitting a salvager and the time it takes to perform the task of salvaging when they worked out the 'average' time. Go out and get a Destroyer. Fit it with 2 Tractor Beams, 4 Salvagers and some minimal weapons (just in case) and it will cut your salvage/looting time by at least half.
Tecro Nashota Inako Industries	Posted - 2007.03.21 15:57:00 - [21] Originally by: Borasao I guess I'll be waiting for a few downtimes before resuming missioning then. I think you are going to have to actually do some missions to get the rewards and lp's up. Zero multiplied by something is still zero
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.03.21 16:07:00 - [22] Originally by: Zrakor Also there is a bit of misconception about the ISK 'nerf' in missions. There are no plans to nerf ISK in missions per se, we simply won't make the new levels (5,6,7) give rediculous amounts of ISK. Rather they will focus more on giving out items, which the high end players will then sell to other players for ISK. So you'll still have people farming missions and belts and complexes for ISK, but when doing the high-end content it will be mainly for items not ISK. Thanks for clarifying this. :) Will it primarily be loot, completion reward items, goods from the LP store...? * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
easei Energy.	Posted - 2007.03.21 16:19:00 - [23] Could the calculations that are taking place for that be resulting in increased lag on the mission running nodes? Energy Recruitment
Chia Mulholland	Posted - 2007.03.21 16:23:00 - [24] The biggest problem with starting new missions with really low rewards is that I (and probably a lot of other people) use the reward as an indicator of how hard a mission is. When I got Gone Berserk (lvl 3) yesterday and saw that it paid 200K and 256 LP, I decided to do it in my Harpy as I usually do with easy level 3 missions. I made it through it, but if I'd known that the reward didn't reflect the difficulty, I'd have taken a ship with a bigger tank.
Kery Nysell Caldari Nysell Incorporated	Posted - 2007.03.21 16:41:00 - [25] Originally by: easei Could the calculations that are taking place for that be resulting in increased lag on the mission running nodes? I think that those calculations are done during the daily downtime, since we usually see an increase in LPs/rewards for the same mission after the downtime and not every couple of hours or so ... so, nope.
Kery Nysell Caldari Nysell Incorporated	Posted - 2007.03.21 16:43:00 - [26] Originally by: Chia Mulholland The biggest problem with starting new missions with really low rewards is that I (and probably a lot of other people) use the reward as an indicator of how hard a mission is. When I got Gone Berserk (lvl 3) yesterday and saw that it paid 200K and 256 LP, I decided to do it in my Harpy as I usually do with easy level 3 missions. I made it through it, but if I'd known that the reward didn't reflect the difficulty, I'd have taken a ship with a bigger tank. Well ... when in doubt, play it safe and use your best tank ... that was an advice given to me in november 2004 when I started playing this game , and it still holds true ...
Mastin Dragonfly Amarr Navy Runners	Posted - 2007.03.21 17:10:00 - [27] Originally by: Kery Nysell Originally by: Chia Mulholland The biggest problem with starting new missions with really low rewards is that I (and probably a lot of other people) use the reward as an indicator of how hard a mission is. When I got Gone Berserk (lvl 3) yesterday and saw that it paid 200K and 256 LP, I decided to do it in my Harpy as I usually do with easy level 3 missions. I made it through it, but if I'd known that the reward didn't reflect the difficulty, I'd have taken a ship with a bigger tank. Well ... when in doubt, play it safe and use your best tank ... that was an advice given to me in november 2004 when I started playing this game , and it still holds true ... Agreed.
Susan Acid Gallente	Posted - 2007.03.21 17:23:00 - [28] Originally by: Domitianvs Quote: I wonder if they factored in the lost Hi-slot/DPS from fitting a salvager and the time it takes to perform the task of salvaging when they worked out the 'average' time. Go out and get a Destroyer. Fit it with 2 Tractor Beams, 4 Salvagers and some minimal weapons (just in case) and it will cut your salvage/looting time by at least half. I do use a Destroyer(4 TB's and 4 salvagers) to salvage but it still takes extra time.My question should have been: when these missions were made and the bonus time worked out was it before salvaging was in game.A mission which came out with the RMR patch wouldnt have to account for salvaging when the time bonus was worked out.It would be nice to know if CCP see salvaging as part of the mission or 'optional' so to speak.
Vinmier	Posted - 2007.03.21 17:28:00 - [29] Originally by: Chia Mulholland The biggest problem with starting new missions with really low rewards is that I (and probably a lot of other people) use the reward as an indicator of how hard a mission is. When I got Gone Berserk (lvl 3) yesterday and saw that it paid 200K and 256 LP, I decided to do it in my Harpy as I usually do with easy level 3 missions. I made it through it, but if I'd known that the reward didn't reflect the difficulty, I'd have taken a ship with a bigger tank. There was a post started 9 hours before this that gave details about "Berserk" in the new missions thread. I'm glad you didn't lose your harpy, but with all the new missions, I just pop out my BS and go to town. Soon enough the mission rewards will accurately reflect the difficulty of the mission.
Vinmier	Posted - 2007.03.21 17:30:00 - [30] Edited by: Vinmier on 21/03/2007 17:28:41 Originally by: Susan Acid Originally by: Domitianvs Quote: I wonder if they factored in the lost Hi-slot/DPS from fitting a salvager and the time it takes to perform the task of salvaging when they worked out the 'average' time. Go out and get a Destroyer. Fit it with 2 Tractor Beams, 4 Salvagers and some minimal weapons (just in case) and it will cut your salvage/looting time by at least half. I do use a Destroyer(4 TB's and 4 salvagers) to salvage but it still takes extra time.My question should have been: when these missions were made and the bonus time worked out was it before salvaging was in game.A mission which came out with the RMR patch wouldnt have to account for salvaging when the time bonus was worked out.It would be nice to know if CCP see salvaging as part of the mission or 'optional' so to speak. From the way I understand it, they factor in the start time, and the time completed. So if the average person salvages the mission (since it has to be salvaged before completion), then yes, it takes into account salvage time. edit: To be more on point, CCP doesn't need to factor in salvaging by itself, since the mission has to be salvaged before it's completed.
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.03.21 17:50:00 - [31] Edited by: Andrue on 21/03/2007 17:47:47 Originally by: Vinmier From the way I understand it, they factor in the start time, and the time completed. So if the average person salvages the mission (since it has to be salvaged before completion), then yes, it takes into account salvage time. edit: To be more on point, CCP doesn't need to factor in salvaging by itself, since the mission has to be salvaged before it's completed. No it doesn't - where did you get that idea from? The only time I salvage before completing is when I forget the objective and have to take it out with my salvager ship or when it's too far away and I don't want to waste time flying my Raven over to it. My standard practice with missions is to set a BM when I'm in the largest group of wrecks then I fly back to it when the mission has been completed. Wrecks outlast the mission so if I have completed the objectives and picked up any special loot I go back to the agent, complete the mission and switch to my Lootageddon. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] Please don't read this signature.
Bach Atreides 21st Centauri Lancers	Posted - 2007.03.21 17:52:00 - [32] Edited by: Bach Atreides on 21/03/2007 17:49:35 From the way I understand it, they factor in the start time, and the time completed. So if the average person salvages the mission (since it has to be salvaged before completion), then yes, it takes into account salvage time. edit: To be more on point, CCP doesn't need to factor in salvaging by itself, since the mission has to be salvaged before it's completed. Missions have to be salvaged BEFORE completion now???!!!???
Remedios Sonrisa Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.03.21 18:06:00 - [33] Originally by: Bach Atreides Missions have to be salvaged BEFORE completion now???!!!??? NO. I salvaged after receiving my reward from my agent last evening. Unless that has changed the last 20 or so hours, the answer to your question is a definitive no. ....
Borasao	Posted - 2007.03.21 18:32:00 - [34] Originally by: Tecro Nashota Originally by: Borasao I guess I'll be waiting for a few downtimes before resuming missioning then. I think you are going to have to actually do some missions to get the rewards and lp's up. Zero multiplied by something is still zero Yes and no. Yes, exactly, I think that boycotting the mission changes would be a great idea, but it won't fly because there will be someone who will do them. And, no, I'm more than willing to let the eager-beavers go out and slog out the missions for little reward while reporting what to expect to the various gaming sites so I can go into them better prepared and get more LP/reward for my in-game time.
Malena Perpetual Dawn	Posted - 2007.03.21 18:41:00 - [35] Originally by: Zrakor Also there is a bit of misconception about the ISK 'nerf' in missions. There are no plans to nerf ISK in missions per se, we simply won't make the new levels (5,6,7) give rediculous amounts of ISK. Rather they will focus more on giving out items, which the high end players will then sell to other players for ISK. So you'll still have people farming missions and belts and complexes for ISK, but when doing the high-end content it will be mainly for items not ISK. I would just like it noted that we are now returning to the early days of EVE when you received such and such amounts of ammo or warp core stabilizers, passive targetters, etc. Later on it became tech 2 components, then nothing because of the way the distribution was working. So now we are working on completing the circle.
Ralara Caldari Ralara Corp	Posted - 2007.03.21 18:56:00 - [36] Originally by: Borasao Originally by: Tecro Nashota Originally by: Borasao I guess I'll be waiting for a few downtimes before resuming missioning then. I think you are going to have to actually do some missions to get the rewards and lp's up. Zero multiplied by something is still zero Yes and no. Yes, exactly, I think that boycotting the mission changes would be a great idea, but it won't fly because there will be someone who will do them. And, no, I'm more than willing to let the eager-beavers go out and slog out the missions for little reward while reporting what to expect to the various gaming sites so I can go into them better prepared and get more LP/reward for my in-game time. coward :p Where's your sense of adventure? And rewards are low?? You can make 20-50m a mission, an extra 1m in reward and bonus is nothing in comparison! Try them. Get a challenge. It's people with your attitude who the PvPers are always complaining about - carebaring to the Xtreme! Why do you even play this game?
Susan Acid Gallente	Posted - 2007.03.21 19:45:00 - [37] Originally by: Remedios Sonrisa Originally by: Bach Atreides Missions have to be salvaged BEFORE completion now???!!!??? NO. I salvaged after receiving my reward from my agent last evening. Unless that has changed the last 20 or so hours, the answer to your question is a definitive no. I thought a mission 'despawned' once you had told the agent you had completed it and collected the reward?I always worked the bonus out on the time between accepting the mission and then telling the agent I've finished.Or do I just need to achieve all mission objectives and I get the bonus irrespective of when I actually tell the agent I'm done? Have I got it wrong?Should my next post just say Doh!
Ehranavaar	Posted - 2007.03.21 20:11:00 - [38] Originally by: Susan Acid I do use a Destroyer(4 TB's and 4 salvagers) to salvage but it still takes extra time.My question should have been: when these missions were made and the bonus time worked out was it before salvaging was in game.A mission which came out with the RMR patch wouldnt have to account for salvaging when the time bonus was worked out.It would be nice to know if CCP see salvaging as part of the mission or 'optional' so to speak.[/quote if you book mark a wreck in each chamber you can go back and do your salvaging after you turn in the mission. as a perk if you do this there are no more pesky and time consuming accel gates to navigate.
hotgirl933	Posted - 2007.03.21 21:35:00 - [39] look at it this way its an anti ISK farming measure, instead of simply going for as much ISK as players can handle youre average mission runner will end up with items that can be melted ( it will encourage industry) in eve asset inflation is being looked at - to much ISK ( removing time based non ISK rewards was a dumb move CCP) that said it will encourage more looting/salvage which as long as its not to time consuming will be the way forward. Those items in youre hanger can be used for selling ( CCP good move by the way)
Hait	Posted - 2007.03.21 22:45:00 - [40] Originally by: Susan Acid Originally by: Remedios Sonrisa Originally by: Bach Atreides Missions have to be salvaged BEFORE completion now???!!!??? I thought a mission 'despawned' once you had told the agent you had completed it and collected the reward? Exactly, means you can go back and salvage with an mwd ship - wrecks are still there, on a two hour timer.
Galk Gallente Autumn Tactics All the things she said	Posted - 2007.03.22 00:42:00 - [41] 'Doom' I think you fail to understand the complete shift in the demographic. Ill call it simple, people sitting pretty with isk and means to replenish on a personal term, don't seem to understand the statement zakohor has actualy made... Im viewing it as probaly the most significant thing since i started out.... Incase it wasn't obvious, there's a near complete shift (from those words) to a complete player run utopia like economy... far and away from what is now... aka the isk from thin air grinder. I wanted to draw attention in my previous post to the fact that eve/the game still requires you to be selfish (wrong dirty wording i know) but don't i know it... as much as i do for others... with my front foot, the head allways kicks in and tells me to ignore everything else from time to time to move myself. Used timecodes as example, peoples now first thought is grabbing 150 million isk to pay for there sub for a month.... easy yeah... Future told in a world that doesn't evolve around insta pop'ing isk... that might be a problem. Everybody doing it... as i said.... personal worth yes (or your group).... everybody else, no. Whats coming, if what he says has any meaning, is a whole new way....... ______
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.03.22 01:45:00 - [42] Originally by: Galk 'Doom' I think you fail to understand the complete shift in the demographic Ill call it simple, people sitting pretty with isk and means to replenish on a personal term, don't seem to understand the statement zakohor has actualy made... Im viewing it as probaly the most significant thing since i started out.... Incase it wasn't obvious, there's a near complete shift (from those words) to a complete player run utopia like economy... far and away from what is now... aka the isk from thin air grinder. You're reading a lot into it, considering all the qualifiers in the original statement. What Zrakor said was... Quote: Also there is a bit of misconception about the ISK 'nerf' in missions. There are no plans to nerf ISK in missions per se, we simply won't make the new levels (5,6,7) give rediculous amounts of ISK. Rather they will focus more on giving out items, which the high end players will then sell to other players for ISK. So you'll still have people farming missions and belts and complexes for ISK, but when doing the high-end content it will be mainly for items not ISK. Some key points: ...L5-7 only... ...not "ridiculous amounts of isk" i.e., still some isk will be involved ..."they will focus more on giving out items" not entirely on giving out items... ..."you'll still have people farming missions and belts and complexes for ISK"... The indications are that this won't be as enormous a sea change as you think. Also, unless things change a lot in LowSec and there's a big change in the general mission runner mentality, some large portion of the population isn't going to be running these new missions fulltime anyway. Of course there will be changes in the economy--that seems to be part of the intent. But a lot of the predictions seem way overblown based on the limited information we have. Your ideas about it are interesting though. I guess it's clearer to me now why they don't want to put these missions in HiSec. They almost can't. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Ohoboho	Posted - 2007.03.22 08:49:00 - [43] If the missions drop stuff for making t2 production easier - OK - NO problem. Who needs the isk when one can make the things himself. Loot to reprocess and so on. Who needs 100m to buy someting when the protagonist can get 100m of stuff and turn it into the "something" the one wants to have. Skipping the market and fighting inflation :)
Codiya Daptari	Posted - 2007.03.22 11:05:00 - [44] Originally by: Zrakor Also there is a bit of misconception about the ISK 'nerf' in missions. There are no plans to nerf ISK in missions per se, we simply won't make the new levels (5,6,7) give rediculous amounts of ISK. Rather they will focus more on giving out items, which the high end players will then sell to other players for ISK. So you'll still have people farming missions and belts and complexes for ISK, but when doing the high-end content it will be mainly for items not ISK. Sounds very interesting, can't wait to try those!
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.03.22 11:29:00 - [45] Originally by: Zrakor Also there is a bit of misconception about the ISK 'nerf' in missions. There are no plans to nerf ISK in missions per se, we simply won't make the new levels (5,6,7) give rediculous amounts of ISK. Rather they will focus more on giving out items, which the high end players will then sell to other players for ISK. So you'll still have people farming missions and belts and complexes for ISK, but when doing the high-end content it will be mainly for items not ISK. Witout wanting to antagonize you, as programs can have changed, the original blog was saying that: 1) some missions will be moved to level 5 (the more recent blog a put a hold on that); 2) the new mission added will not have bountyes as the target will be mostly Empire faction ships. Evidently if a player is picking the missions only for the isk bounties he will discard the missions without bounties. As those will be more diluited in a larger pool of missions F will be a bit slower as he will need more ofthen to change agents, but the difference would be almost insignificant. A player like me that prefer to try all the mission he get, and that want to try the faction warfare when that will be implemented, will get less isk and (I hope) better loot. In the end the isk inflow will be reduced a bit, but the amount of the reduction is dependant on the player choices. Can you explain the part of the blog about the LP store being a isk sink? We will need to pay the items in LP and isk?
Brathi Bubuka	Posted - 2007.03.22 13:59:00 - [46] Originally by: Zrakor Also there is a bit of misconception about the ISK 'nerf' in missions. There are no plans to nerf ISK in missions per se, we simply won't make the new levels (5,6,7) give rediculous amounts of ISK. Rather they will focus more on giving out items, which the high end players will then sell to other players for ISK. So you'll still have people farming missions and belts and complexes for ISK, but when doing the high-end content it will be mainly for items not ISK. Well, atm I'd like to see ANYTHING in ANY lvl mission, that even has the SLIGHTEST of hint of value.
Ladyah Liandri VMF-214 Blacksheep	Posted - 2007.03.22 14:24:00 - [47] Originally by: Brathi Bubuka Originally by: Zrakor Also there is a bit of misconception about the ISK 'nerf' in missions. There are no plans to nerf ISK in missions per se, we simply won't make the new levels (5,6,7) give rediculous amounts of ISK. Rather they will focus more on giving out items, which the high end players will then sell to other players for ISK. So you'll still have people farming missions and belts and complexes for ISK, but when doing the high-end content it will be mainly for items not ISK. Well, atm I'd like to see ANYTHING in ANY lvl mission, that even has the SLIGHTEST of hint of value. /signed And while we're at it ... why again have I skilled the freakishly overpriced Connection skills (Military, High Tech, etc.)?
Tyler Lowe Minmatar DROW Org	Posted - 2007.03.22 15:11:00 - [48] Originally by: Zrakor Also there is a bit of misconception about the ISK 'nerf' in missions. There are no plans to nerf ISK in missions per se, we simply won't make the new levels (5,6,7) give rediculous amounts of ISK. Rather they will focus more on giving out items, which the high end players will then sell to other players for ISK. So you'll still have people farming missions and belts and complexes for ISK, but when doing the high-end content it will be mainly for items not ISK. Zrakor, thank you for taking the time to clarify this point. The previous dev blogs left some ambiguity on this subject, including the most recent one. Perhaps this should be tacked on to the feedback thread on the mission changes blogs so avoid unneccesary angst over the mission changes. For those worried about a flooded market of new mission rewards: Considering the many. many pages of feedback indicating how many people will take a pass on the new level 5 and above content, I sincerely doubt we need to fear a flooded market when it comes to any new goodies handed out on missions. As actually getting these items, per the dev blogs, will require venturing into lowsec with mission running setups, and potentially group effort by capital ships (and the risk of losing capitals to gangs of pirate capitals), the rarity of such items seems a near given IMO. Conatus Quod Virtus Es Non Satis Absentis Propositum Quod Discessio
Commodore Yan	Posted - 2007.03.22 15:39:00 - [49] Can someone please tell me (if anyone knows), how long the wrecks last for before they go "pop". The idea of bookmarking the chambers and coming back after mission complete in a lootermobile sounds great, but won't time be of the essence ?
Tyler Lowe Minmatar DROW Org	Posted - 2007.03.22 15:58:00 - [50] Originally by: Commodore Yan Can someone please tell me (if anyone knows), how long the wrecks last for before they go "pop". The idea of bookmarking the chambers and coming back after mission complete in a lootermobile sounds great, but won't time be of the essence ? Same as jet cans. They last about an hour. Conatus Quod Virtus Es Non Satis Absentis Propositum Quod Discessio
Solariian Lytebringer	Posted - 2007.03.22 17:17:00 - [51] Edited by: Solariian Lytebringer on 22/03/2007 17:13:55 Originally by: Vinmier edit: To be more on point, CCP doesn't need to factor in salvaging by itself, since the mission has to be salvaged before it's completed. Actually, you can bookmark your mission, or each room if its a large one, like Guristas Extravaganza, get your reward, then fly back and loot to your hearts content. Not sure, however, if this changes the time it takes fro wrecks to pop. Seems to me they last about the same amount of time as jet-cans (1hr + some random duration). Edit: nevermind, someone already pointed this out. /me makes note to read second page before quoting posts from the first.
Jollyreaper Gallente Ace Adventure Corp	Posted - 2007.03.22 19:48:00 - [52] Originally by: Zrakor Also there is a bit of misconception about the ISK 'nerf' in missions. There are no plans to nerf ISK in missions per se, we simply won't make the new levels (5,6,7) give rediculous amounts of ISK. Rather they will focus more on giving out items, which the high end players will then sell to other players for ISK. So you'll still have people farming missions and belts and complexes for ISK, but when doing the high-end content it will be mainly for items not ISK. I'm running the level 4 mission in the midst of deadspace 1/5 and there are NO bounties on any of the rats in the first room. This is intentional?
Jack StarMule Minmatar Minmatar Ship Construction Services	Posted - 2007.03.22 20:33:00 - [53] Originally by: Jollyreaper I'm running the level 4 mission in the midst of deadspace 1/5 and there are NO bounties on any of the rats in the first room. This is intentional? That is a Caldari Navy Mission. You never get bounties when fighting other Navies. Pick up the dogtags and sell them at a Fleet Station, that's your bounty.
Birthbaka	Posted - 2007.04.03 08:20:00 - [54] Originally by: Jack StarMule Originally by: Jollyreaper I'm running the level 4 mission in the midst of deadspace 1/5 and there are NO bounties on any of the rats in the first room. This is intentional? That is a Caldari Navy Mission. You never get bounties when fighting other Navies. Pick up the dogtags and sell them at a Fleet Station, that's your bounty. So the conclusions is: Don't do those missions. All you get is negative faction standing. Tags don't sell for crap.
Mastin Dragonfly Absolutely No Return	Posted - 2007.04.03 10:51:00 - [55] Originally by: Birthbaka So the conclusions is: Don't do those missions. All you get is negative faction standing. Tags don't sell for crap. The dogtags from lvl 4 Enemies Abound (the amarr/caldari counterpart of In the Midst of Deadspace) part 1, 3 and 4 together are over 30 million isk. If you feel that's crap you must be pretty whealthy.
OneSock PLuSQuAMPERFEkT iNc	Posted - 2007.04.03 12:25:00 - [56] Originally by: Tyler Lowe Originally by: Commodore Yan Can someone please tell me (if anyone knows), how long the wrecks last for before they go "pop". The idea of bookmarking the chambers and coming back after mission complete in a lootermobile sounds great, but won't time be of the essence ? Same as jet cans. They last about an hour. I have actually timed it at 1h 40 mins. And IME it's definitely more than 1 hour. If there is some variation in the timer I would say I have never had a problem even with longer missions.
OneSock PLuSQuAMPERFEkT iNc	Posted - 2007.04.03 12:29:00 - [57] Oh and regards the new missions. best solution is surely to farm them to get the rewards up. i.e. run the mission but leave the objective unmet. let the mission respawn at downtime and then run it again the next day. repeat until you have to finally close the mission before it expires. your not really losing anything unless you run multiple missions per day. I generally only do one large lv4 per day and fill in the remaining time with lv3 or other stuff.

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