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Teirnid
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2016.10.01 07:52:15 -
[1] - Quote
So I'm going to prefix this with statement that the following is going to spark controversy and not everyone is going to agree.
EVE online has been built to cater to those who enjoy PvP. I get that this is EVE and the learning curve is very high. Maybe that's the problem. The learning Curve is high. I know many players don't make it that far as newbs because of the curve. The tutorial has helped with that alot. Chalk one up for CCP.
That being said, I left EVE after getting past the starting stuff. Why did I leave? I was ganked. Yeah, I know. It's part of the game. Put your big boy pants on and deal. And I did...... when it happened the first time. But the second time came to a $105.00 death if in game money was converted to real world funds. I happen to be in Jita during the second burning in my freighter. A death of a hulk or Mackinaw you can recover from. It sucks but that's life. But a death of that scale you can't recover from. It's crippling.
I had contacted support and to be fair it was a fair kill in High Sec as a gank. There was nothing they could do. I informed CCP that I was quitting EVE effective immediately. That they would no longer receive my money. Many gankers run two accounts. one for their personal use and one for ganking specifically. It makes sense that CCP would support players that are paying for two accounts instead of one. And as a ganker, they need prey. Fair fights are for suckers. So of course they go for the easy kill.
I came back to EVE finally after 3 years of swearing that I would not play again just to check out what the changes were before the game goes F2P. Honestly, not much has changed. Some of the corps have moved around and miner ship additions and changes but people still troll and grief because as a killer they feed on other peoples tears.
Most people who have a real live outside the game with real concerns and real world problems can't afford to have hours and hours of intensive labor be ripped away because a ganker thinks it's fun. They want that easy kill. Prey if you will. And they won't go to low sec because suddenly they have something more to loose and the players down there aren't as easy a kill.
Now with CODE in the high sec and more organized then in the days of Hulkageddon it's even worse. Packs of 12 Catalyst roaming the high sec destroying anyone they please and not caring about the alt account. It makes me sad to realize that EVE hasn't really changed at all. It's a game for the PvPer's only and not for anyone looking for the Social or PvE aspect. I believe a DEV CCP Rise even said that most new players don't make it that fair due to the lack of social interaction with corps. I feel that EVE had alot going for it but the population of the game is down from where is was three years ago. I remember when roaming High Sec wasn't a thing and Roaming in Hounds and Manicores were a thing in low sec.
I feel that this is largely in part to the focus being on PvP and not on the Social aspect. And it's difficult to focus on Social when the minute you undock you are fearing for your ship and your life. Why play if all that's going to happen is your going to die in high sec. Worse yet would be a newer player who doesn't even know the risk he is running being in a mining barge early game getting ganked and not understanding why he got ganked or how he could do a better job to avoid it in the future. Either make Null, low, and high sec all the same or increase the punishment for ganking in high sec. That or specifically advertise the game as PvP game and nothing else.
EVE is a nitch market. You have to make the Game cater to more then just the Killers and gankers or you'll never grow the gamer base. But you have to make the change without upsetting the PvP players you have currently. I think that when my subscription is up I won't renew it. It was good to see the game again but not enough has changed to get me to stay.
I wish the best of luck to you CCP. Fly Safe. |
Bishop Bob
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
26
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Posted - 2016.10.01 08:01:32 -
[2] - Quote
Why didn't you....No, it isn't even worth trying to help. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
26933
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Posted - 2016.10.01 08:19:45 -
[3] - Quote
You flew a freighter during a well publicised event that was all about killing freighters and other expensive stuff in the very system the event was targeting, and you exploded. WTF did you think was going to happen?
To top it off you then quit because you couldn't handle the fact that the blame for your demise rests entirely upon yourself. You've since come back and are complaining about PvP happening in a PvP game, so you're going to quit again.
Be sure to biomass all of your characters after you give me your stuff.
Civilised behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
New Player FAQ
Feyd's Survival Pack
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Violet Hurst
Fedaya Recon
93
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Posted - 2016.10.01 08:19:50 -
[4] - Quote
Jesus Christ, James. You're awesome, we get it. You don't have to remind us with a new thread every other day. |
Sitting Bull Lakota
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
168
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Posted - 2016.10.01 08:20:26 -
[5] - Quote
So do you or do you not have stuff that I can have?
On a more serious note, I think you have let your disdain for pvp and fear of loss prevent you from recognizing the point of the game. Ships don't matter. Isk doesn't matter. These are rounds in your magazine. Don't get attached to them. Use your resources to accomplish the goals you set for yourself.
You don't want to interact with others, because you might get griefed? It's a pitiable state to be in where you shy away from social interaction for fear of losing imaginary wealth. |
Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri
New Order Logistics CODE.
542
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Posted - 2016.10.01 08:27:26 -
[6] - Quote
You know that you've got ganked real good when it takes you more than three years to get to the forums to complain about it. |
Vincent Pelletier
Pelletier Imports and Exports
46
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Posted - 2016.10.01 08:39:23 -
[7] - Quote
"I bought some Marmite 3 years ago and really didn't like it so I sent a letter to the company that makes it that I'm really not happy about this and that I would stop buying their Marmite unless they would make it taste more like peanut butter. I just tried it again and wtf, it STILL tastes like Marmite, how stupid are these people? Can't they see that if they'd change Marmite to taste more like peanut butter they'd sell so much more? They must be idiots to not want me, a peanut butter lover, to buy their Marmite".
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Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1099
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Posted - 2016.10.01 09:06:23 -
[8] - Quote
There's an existing thread that is currently at 91 pages long right on this very page.
Why did you need your own special snowflake thread?
Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
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Vincent Pelletier
Pelletier Imports and Exports
46
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Posted - 2016.10.01 09:19:08 -
[9] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:There's an existing thread that is currently at 91 pages long right on this very page.
Why did you need your own special snowflake thread? He sent CCP a message dontyouknow that the game should be changed according to his ideas because he runs two (TWO!!!) accounts, so his opinion is clearly more important. The one account plebs can post in that thread. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
4466
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Posted - 2016.10.01 09:21:24 -
[10] - Quote
I think the OP has a point and it boils down to one question:
Do we want more players who do not enjoy space combat?
A basic rule of EVE is: any ship in any space can be destroyed. This should never change, and I don't think it ever will.
But currently in EVE there already are several activities that don't involve destructable ships in space:
. Station trading . SP farming . Gambling . Scamming . Industry (in NPC stations) . Diplomacy . Probably several others I forgot
Some of them may require hauling at some point, but hauling can be outsourced to friends or specialized corps.
PI is an exception as, to my knowledge, the customs office logistics must be done by the character doing the PI on the planet.
These activites are quite popular, quite essential to EVE's ecosystem and quite impactful (IWI funding WWB immediately comes to mind). They are also strongly linked to spaceship PVP - materials and trade goods need to be hauled, the ISK for gambling ultimately comes from in-space activities like ratting, etc. But on their own, they can be performed while never undocking.
So finally we already have a great symbiotic relationship between 'non-pilots' that never risk a ship (though they often risk their ISK in other ways) and pilots.
Since this already works quite well, maybe CCP should look to add more non-spaceship activities, for example: . Gambling in stations, of the 'PVP' kind (e.g. poker) . Player-made SKINs and/or clothing (though there must be the need to move them in space before selling, else we'd lose the symbiosis with PVP; for example, make them designable anywhere but manufacturable just in null or WH space) . Re-working PI to decouple the PI activity from the hauling (allowing contracts in customs offices, for example)
TL;DR: freighters will always be gankable, as any ship in any space. But we could all benefit from offering 'peaceful' players more options to actively be part of the game and the community.
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
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Vincent Pelletier
Pelletier Imports and Exports
46
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Posted - 2016.10.01 09:23:06 -
[11] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:I think the OP has a point and it boils down to one question:
Do we want more players who do not enjoy space combat?
That's not what he's saying.
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Arcelian
Metentis
196
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Posted - 2016.10.01 09:25:37 -
[12] - Quote
Vincent Pelletier wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:There's an existing thread that is currently at 91 pages long right on this very page.
Why did you need your own special snowflake thread? He sent CCP a message dontyouknow that the game should be changed according to his ideas because he runs two (TWO!!!) accounts, so his opinion is clearly more important. The one account plebs can post in that thread.
I have 6 accounts so I must be on god-like status with CCP. I should really have a forum all to myself. |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
13014
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Posted - 2016.10.01 09:28:20 -
[13] - Quote
Teirnid wrote:But the second time came to a $105.00 death if in game money was converted to real world funds
RMTer detected
Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .
Bumble's Space Log
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Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
4466
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Posted - 2016.10.01 09:30:02 -
[14] - Quote
Vincent Pelletier wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:I think the OP has a point and it boils down to one question:
Do we want more players who do not enjoy space combat? That's not what he's saying. It's the interesting part, once you filter all the whining.
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
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Vincent Pelletier
Pelletier Imports and Exports
46
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Posted - 2016.10.01 09:32:48 -
[15] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Vincent Pelletier wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:I think the OP has a point and it boils down to one question:
Do we want more players who do not enjoy space combat? That's not what he's saying. It's the interesting part, once you filter all the whining.
No what he's saying is "I want to play this game but without the risk of losses, why isn't CCP listening to me?". |
Avaelica Kuershin
Paper Cats
284
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Posted - 2016.10.01 09:42:33 -
[16] - Quote
Teirnid wrote: EVE is a nitch market. You have to make the Game cater to more then just the Killers and gankers or you'll never grow the gamer base. But you have to make the change without upsetting the PvP players you have currently. I think that when my subscription is up I won't renew it. It was good to see the game again but not enough has changed to get me to stay.
I wish the best of luck to you CCP. Fly Safe.
But EVE does cater to more than the "Killers and Gankers". It's just that my Hauler alt has to be looking very carefully when traveling certain routes (carrying a scouting ship seems a good idea) and that makes a boring task more enjoyable. And I have to be observant when doing exploration. What would EVE be like without the threat?
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Tennoku
Mercury Nation
17
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Posted - 2016.10.01 09:51:29 -
[17] - Quote
Vincent Pelletier wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Vincent Pelletier wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:I think the OP has a point and it boils down to one question:
Do we want more players who do not enjoy space combat? That's not what he's saying. It's the interesting part, once you filter all the whining. No what he's saying is "I want to play this game but without the risk of losses, why isn't CCP listening to me?".
You're talking past Gully. He's taking what the OP said, and drawing a related but different lesson to the OP that he thinks is interesting. |
Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
597
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Posted - 2016.10.01 10:08:27 -
[18] - Quote
Teirnid wrote:
EVE is a nitch market. You have to make the Game cater to more then just the Killers and gankers or you'll never grow the gamer base. But you have to make the change without upsetting the PvP players you have currently. I think that when my subscription is up I won't renew it. It was good to see the game again but not enough has changed to get me to stay.
I wish the best of luck to you CCP. Fly Safe.
No offence but this sounds more like like a case of you flying something you could't afford to lose. CCP doesn't need to cater to anyone's playstyle. Highsec is totally awkward though, I agree. I'm not really sure what would be the best solution but I do have my observations and I've basically summed up that there are 3 kinds of Eve players. One's like you that won't adapt despite having a Large Ion Blaster held to your head, then there's the highsec guys with the Large Ion Blaster, and then the rest of us.
I hope you don't take this loss as your reason to quit the game. There's far better reasons to quit
@lunettelulu7
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18225
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Posted - 2016.10.01 10:23:33 -
[19] - Quote
Vincent Pelletier wrote:
No what he's saying is "I want to play this game but without the risk of losses, why isn't CCP listening to me?".
Unfortunately they have been. |
Takoma Panala
State War Academy Caldari State
33
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Posted - 2016.10.01 10:38:28 -
[20] - Quote
Avaelica Kuershin wrote: But EVE does cater to more than the "Killers and Gankers". It's just that my Hauler alt has to be looking very carefully when traveling certain routes (carrying a scouting ship seems a good idea) and that makes a boring task more enjoyable. And I have to be observant when doing exploration. What would EVE be like without the threat?
A pretty screensaver? |
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Gwenaelle de Ardevon
Ordum Eternam
4601
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Posted - 2016.10.01 11:11:17 -
[21] - Quote
Avaelica Kuershin wrote:Teirnid wrote: EVE is a nitch market. You have to make the Game cater to more then just the Killers and gankers or you'll never grow the gamer base. But you have to make the change without upsetting the PvP players you have currently. I think that when my subscription is up I won't renew it. It was good to see the game again but not enough has changed to get me to stay.
I wish the best of luck to you CCP. Fly Safe.
But EVE does cater to more than the "Killers and Gankers". It's just that my Hauler alt has to be looking very carefully when traveling certain routes (carrying a scouting ship seems a good idea) and that makes a boring task more enjoyable. And I have to be observant when doing exploration. What would EVE be like without the threat?
just Boring...
I like that game between Cat and Mouse....
Do you know Tom & Jerry... I'm like Jerry ... i can run, and run.......
«An hour sitting with a pretty girl on a park bench passes like a minute, but a minute sitting on a hot stove seems like an hour».
Albert Einstein - [11, S. 154]
More Quotes, Poetry & Prose on: https://gwenaelledeardevon.wordpress.com/
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Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
1219
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Posted - 2016.10.01 11:15:18 -
[22] - Quote
Teirnid wrote:I feel that this is largely in part to the focus being on PvP and not on the Social aspect. And it's difficult to focus on Social when the minute you undock you are fearing for your ship and your life.
This is just nonsense.
What you are basically telling us is, that you are ok with risk, as long as you can opt out of it at your leisure.
EVE is just not that kind of game. And it is a good thing.
Remove insurance.
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Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
2787
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Posted - 2016.10.01 11:38:42 -
[23] - Quote
Teirnid wrote:EVE is a nitch market. You have to make the Game cater to more then just the Killers and gankers or you'll never grow the gamer base. But you have to make the change without upsetting the PvP players you have currently. I think that when my subscription is up I won't renew it. It was good to see the game again but not enough has changed to get me to stay.
I wish the best of luck to you CCP. Fly Safe. Because you have decided that Eve is not for you, you've decided to lecture CCP on how to develop their 13-year old MMO? A game that has outlasted almost all its contemporaries and has tens, or maybe hundreds of thousand customers who are happy to pay for its near-unique game play? Talk about self-important.
Eve Online isn't for you. Fine. Whether you just never got what the game is about, or maybe you did and it isn't what you want to spend your leisure time on doesn't matter as the world doesn't revolved around you. Many of us like playing in a competitive sandbox and accept that for us to be able to affect the game play of others, we have to be vulnerable to everyone else.
What you are asking for is impossible. Removing the possibility of loss and maintaining a functioning player-driven economy is not workable. Eve is not a space combat simulator or FarmVille in space clone. It is an attempt to create a living work of science-fiction where we all compete with each other for power and riches in a virtual universe.
You seem more than happy to benefit from living in that universe by building and selling stuff in Jita which only have value because of the demand destruction creates, yet when that universe came for you and claimed your freighter you had a hissy fit and rage quit like a child losing at a game of checkers. Sorry friend, if you want to compete economically with all of us you have to be vulnerable to all of us as we are all to each other. You don't get to isolate yourself behind the wall and only accumulate resources at no risk to the other players. If everyone could do that, Eve would be a boring, non-functional game.
So go away. If you don't want to play there are plenty of other games out there for you to play but don't tell CCP to turn the game I want to be playing into something else entirely because that is what you want to play. So selfish.
The 8 Golden Rules of Eve
Why Do They Gank?
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Buoytender Bob
Ronin Exploration Mission and Mining
207
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Posted - 2016.10.01 12:26:16 -
[24] - Quote
...and complaining about the core aspect of EVE in the forums is always productive; usually in flames,however.
To buck the popular trend, I began to Rage Start instead of Rage Quit.
...and every time I get another piece of Carbon, I know exactly what CCP is getting this Christmas.
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2435
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Posted - 2016.10.01 12:41:16 -
[25] - Quote
The first thing I would ask you (the OP) is whether you count yourself as casual, and what level of intelligence gathering do you do, when I started this game in 2009 I was told that it was a harsh game full of people who liked to gather tears and were good at the game, so for me that was a challenge to go into this game and test myself. I went into the forums, read up what they did, people like to brag you know and I got a good idea of how they operated. So from day one I was difficult to kill in that I had a good idea of what I was playing against.
My sub runs out 6th October, I have tested myself, I am worth about 70bn in ISK and assets, I have a very green killboard and was never ganked, well a thrasher once but that was because I was shooting them
From my perspective I ended up testing myself against a game which was balanced in favour of the gankers in terms of a number of mechanics, what I eventually found was that the people I was testing myself against were not worthy of my test, because they were so successful in terms of the mechanics being biased in their favour. I will give you some examples.
CCP decided to buff the DPS of destroyers, this resulted in a single catalyst being able to gank the best tanked mining ship and pod the pilot in a 0.7 and below system. Playing as I did to be hard to kill I made the decision that mining was no longer possible and stopped mining completely. I only mined again after CCP balanced the mining ships so that a top tanked Skiff is about 17 Catalysts, this means that you have a choice to be difficult to kill with the cost of yield and efficiency, at which point I started mining again. That balance issue if you know what I mean.
Next up is freighters, after analysing the freighters and what you can do to protect them and what they can do to gank them I decided as a player with two accounts that I was not able to counter the gankers with anything and therefore sold my freighters, I only use DST's in hisec. The freighter class is no longer worth using, just stop doing it.
I used to go belt ratting in NPC 0.0, but with the change to the drake and heavy missiles (sometime ago) the reduction in reprocessing, differing warp speeds, the addition of D-scan immune combat recons, the fact that everyone and their dog was now able to fly BLOP's, the removal of the watchlist to keep an eye on hot droppers, the use of skill injectors to create perfect clean cyno alts that it was not really worthwhile, so I stopped doing it apart from a quick blast every so often for laughs.
And these examples are how you play Eve, do not do the things that make you easy game, gather intel and understand your risk and if that risk is crazy stupid due to game mechanics don't do it.
I will end with the fact that hunting in this game is being dumbed down so even complete losers can get kills, AFK Cloaky camping is a lazy dumb losers way of getting kills, most of the players doing this are playing other games, and these players want local removed so it becomes even easier and this is the issue, one of my great friends stopped playing Eve 4 years ago, his judgement was that it was no longer the hard game to hunt in, at this point I agree with him, its been dumbed down too much and its full of lazy people who are now whining because there is nothing left to kill, hence the alpha clones in November, which now gets to the final nail in the coffin for me, what the hell is the value of a kill on a alpha clone, it is like taking candy from a baby.
Sadly this game is no longer worth it for me.
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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Smendrik Von'Smendle
The Black Crow Bandits Sarcos Federation
20
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Posted - 2016.10.01 12:50:50 -
[26] - Quote
very sorry you are leaving the game....
I am posting to this thread because the exact opposite just happened to alliance mate of mine a couple of nights ago.....and that is also EvE.... He needed help saving 10bil worth of stuff and we heard the call scrambled what we could, jumped 20 systems went through Thera to get there in time and we did it....we lost ships....we had fun and we met our objective.....my guess is even if we did not accomplish our goal that night we still would have had fun and reminisced about like I can hear in alliance chat as I write this....
Its a well learned saying "The best ship in EvE is Friendship" this is very true but it must be learned.... You must put yourself out there for a group of people who you may never see their faces...
Take Goons....for all their faults/asshatery/skullduggery they were a group of people with similar goals and had fun together (I mean I assume they had fun otherwise why be complete asshats to the outerworld at large?) Even now they have lost most of their space but they are, for the most part still an alliance, maybe with a lot fewer peeps than before but I am sure that weeded out the corps they needed to weed. They continue....they move on....they survive and again I am sure they are having fun... How many billions do think they lost?
I have played EvE off and on since '09 and I can say without a doubt playing this game with friends is 10x more fun that playing solo...
Mining....10x more fun when 15 people are doing the same thing as you even as boring as watching rocks disappear from your screen.
missioning, exploring, and yes PvP all fun by a factor of 10 (or more) when you are with others....
"Death" in EvE is harsher than any other game I have ever played sans early UO. I loved UO when it was harsh and I love EvE for its harshness......why? you may ask....because its how I deal with the consequences that make me a better (or worse) person. (real life lessons can be learned here)
Ask yourself are you better or worse for quitting for the reason you have previously stated?
If better than move on already...
If worse than reevaluate why and work it out and come on back with a different mindset.
If you do come back may I suggest the first thing to enjoy EvE more.......don't worry what your ISK wallet looks like every 10 mins...set goals and achieve them...if you have setbacks don't be afraid to start over and try to achieve again......(again REAL LIFE lessons can be learned doing this)
In any case Im sure I didn't convince you to stay/comeback and play EvE so I will end this for now.....whatever you decide
FLY SAFE o7 |
Minabunny
Dread Guard
69
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Posted - 2016.10.01 13:17:31 -
[27] - Quote
I find it safer to mine in wormhole space than it is hi-sec. You don't have to deal with idiots in local either. |
Karl Jerr
Herzack Unit
118
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Posted - 2016.10.01 14:00:45 -
[28] - Quote
Quote: But the second time came to a $105.00 death if in game money was converted to real world funds. I happen to be in Jita during the second burning in my freighter. A death of a hulk or Mackinaw you can recover from. It sucks but that's life. But a death of that scale you can't recover from. It's crippling.
The problem is that you convert the imaginary price of a scifi vectorized spacecraft in real money term, not the Eve fault in this case. And flying what you can afford to lose?
Death and been trapped (and how to avoid it) is part of the main fun in Eve for bears like us
Anyway fly safe with the ton of other space games around |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2956
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Posted - 2016.10.01 14:12:01 -
[29] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote: My sub runs out 6th October, Sadly this game is no longer worth it for me.
Can I have your stuff and SP?
I'm my own NPC alt.
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ISD Max Trix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
375
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Posted - 2016.10.01 14:17:37 -
[30] - Quote
Moved to Out of Pod.
ISD Max Trix
Lieutenant
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
I do not respond to Evemails.
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Teirnid
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2016.10.01 14:18:08 -
[31] - Quote
To Smendrik Von'Smendle and Dracvlad,
Thank you for being mature players when replying to this thread. And yes, I get the idea that if something isn't working in the game due to risk try something else. I also understand Corps or more fun but the risk to being wardec'ed is there as well which is counter productive when you just want to mine in peace.
To all the Trolls I just feed. Enjoy the tears. LOL. And in all fairness I did write this post at 4 in the morning my time so screw you if I miss spelled or typo'd a bit. Most of them are CODE anyone and Enjoy being successful in making players quit the game.
To the gentlemen with the peanut butter comment. I'm not saying make the product into peanut butter. I'm saying produce both the orginal product and the peanut butter that way you can offer your customer more.
Now to what I really wanted to reply with. CCP is a company. They are in the business of making money. They don't give a damn about the player other then not loosing the players they have and getting more players to play their game and spend money on their game. This is why people who have multiple accounts will always out way those with one. This is also why they have added F2P. They want to expand their player base. Get more people playing their game and spending money on it. The whole how do we get people to spend more money to increase our profits.
That's why Ganking is a non issue for them. Most of them have two accounts which they are paying for. Also when a miner gets ganked he goes out and drops a plex to replace his losses and CCP get richer in real life. I'm not saying its a bad business model. I'm saying this is why soon the only players who will be left are those who enjoy PvP.
There are 4 types of players in games: (obviously these can be broke down further among each grouping)
The Killers: It's all about scoring the kill. Doesn't matter how you get the kill long as they got the person. Even if they lose something in the process. For this to work you need prey. A weaker target.
The Explorer: Seeing things and getting to area's that are hard to find. Sometimes even breaking game mechanics to see area's still under development
The Achievement players: They are all about the Goals and doing things just for the sake of having done them. Someone who would want to finish the Tutorial just to say they have done it for example
The Socialist: Someone who plays the game just to talk to team mates. Doesn't matter if they die, Big whoop. You can still chat with your friends when your dead.
Generally the Killers and Socialist and opposites as are the Explorers and Achievements.
And lets be honest for a moment, Anyone who actually wanted to fight other players wouldn't be in high sec in a miner. They be in low sec in a Battlecrusier and then they are no longer prey for the Killers.
Again, not saying they their current business model is wrong. Just that if they ever want to pull in more of the other types of players then they will need to find a way to support their way of play without destroying the ones they currently have. |
Teirnid
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2016.10.01 14:31:55 -
[32] - Quote
Also, where did all this animosity come from toward miners and haulers? Just curious. |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2436
|
Posted - 2016.10.01 14:44:31 -
[33] - Quote
Teirnid wrote:Also, where did all this animosity come from toward miners and haulers? Just curious.
I will answer that for you, a lot of Eve players are min/max players, one being the self aggrandising troll Jenn a'Side who happens to be a very good PvE player and will tell you that ad nauseum. A lot of players look at anyone doing lower level return stuff such as mining and hauling as being stupid or sub human, not accepting that people are doing it because they find it fun. So the hatred for them is that you are stupid and dumb for doing something which is so poor in terms of reward.
Then you have the people who define the sandbox as being purely a PvP game and they define it as your not playing the game the right way, so you are scum, so they define people as carebears and bot aspirants who are beyond the pale and that they don't get Eve. So you are playing the game wrong.
CODE, you can write a lot about CODE, but at one point there was a game mechanic called can flipping, where you would flip the can which a miner had dropped his ore into, and they would go suspect to the miner, the miner getting annoyed would flip it back going suspect to the can flipper at which point they just blew them up. It caught a lot of new players and a lot of people who did not understand the mechanics, then they would have fun killing that person in front of their corp mates and taunting them. CCP changed this mechanic, so they went suspect to all. There was a group of old players who hated the loss of this fun mechanic so they decided to attack CCP by directly attacking new players to punish them and that is CODE. Many of its supporters and its founder were directly upset with the change to this mechanic.
There is also a point of view that anyone in hisec is not playing the game right, CCP along with 0.0 alliance leaders want people in 0.0 because that is more fun, well they say it is, but do you want to be a drone hitting F1 in a large fleet at some ungodly time in the morning, do you want to be at the beck and call of raging ego driven alliance leaders, of course you don't but you are not playing Eve right if you do not.
Risk and reward, they bang on about hisec having no risk so should have no reward, many 0.0 alliance leaders push this as they want fresh meat for the grinder so they call you names for not going to 0.0.
Then you have low sec players who think you are cowards and playing it wrong because you are too scared to go where real men operate.
Does that help?
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
|
Keebler Wizard
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
31
|
Posted - 2016.10.01 15:07:49 -
[34] - Quote
Im so tired of this "hours and hours of hard work". I guess if you're sucking veldspar, the lowest common denominator (no offense chribba) then yea its gonna take hours and hours to make anything. I play maybe 20-30 minutes a day and make billions. So no excuse for you.
Also flying a freighter in burn jita, like wtf do you expect. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14796
|
Posted - 2016.10.01 15:41:47 -
[35] - Quote
Teirnid wrote:So I'm going to prefix this with statement that the following is going to spark controversy and not everyone is going to agree.
EVE online has been built to cater to those who enjoy PvP. I get that this is EVE and the learning curve is very high. Maybe that's the problem. The learning Curve is high. I know many players don't make it that far as newbs because of the curve. The tutorial has helped with that alot. Chalk one up for CCP.
That being said, I left EVE after getting past the starting stuff. Why did I leave? I was ganked. Yeah, I know. It's part of the game. Put your big boy pants on and deal. And I did...... when it happened the first time. But the second time came to a $105.00 death if in game money was converted to real world funds. I happen to be in Jita during the second burning in my freighter. A death of a hulk or Mackinaw you can recover from. It sucks but that's life. But a death of that scale you can't recover from. It's crippling.
This is simply evidence that you were never cut out for this game. That is the core problem. There are many like you, blaming the game for what is in fact an internal issue.
We can't post killmails in here as far as I know even though it's been moved. But I can point you to one. My Character Starroad Trucker on 2012-08-25 at 20:21 EVE time. That's a jump freighter that I autopiloted to Jita while drunk one night, while my alliance was war decced. I was mad...at myself. But the loss only stung for 10 minutes, because this is a video game.
Yet here I still am 4 years later. If ANY loss can cripple you in a video game, you should not be playing video games.
Seriously, is this what our society is producing now, people who can't even deal with the minor adversity of a video game?
Quote: I wish the best of luck to you CCP. Fly Safe.
You will not be missed. |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2957
|
Posted - 2016.10.01 15:44:07 -
[36] - Quote
No offense OP, but you have no clue how this game works and how you can survive. One reason, you (and others complaining in this thread) obviously never bothered learning the PvP mechanics*, which is crucial even for a "carebear" who never wants to engage in a fight. It's trivial to stay reasonable safe, and avoid being ganked/killed if you know the mechanics and make use of it. Yes, it means situational awareness and watching the news, and sometimes choosing the 90% but much safer solution (e.g. Skiff over Mack). You won't be able to eliminate risk completely, but it should be a calculated risk. Eve is all about economic decisions an calculated risks.
*Your example with the battlecruiser in lowsec could not be wrong more, a lonely BC is prey in lowsec and will not make it far. You know bigger is not always better?
I'm my own NPC alt.
|
Revis Owen
The Conference Elite CODE.
412
|
Posted - 2016.10.01 16:01:00 -
[37] - Quote
Teirnid wrote:But a death of that scale you can't recover from. It's crippling.
OP goes ahead and rolls the dice on the well-known #1 rule in Eve, and comes up snake-eyes.
All I can do is laugh. Thanks, OP.
Agent of the New Order
http://www.minerbumping.com/p/the-code.html
If you do not have a current Mining Permit, please contact me for issuance.
|
Sasha Nemtsov
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
169
|
Posted - 2016.10.01 17:10:02 -
[38] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote: CODE, you can write a lot about CODE, but at one point there was a game mechanic called can flipping, where you would flip the can which a miner had dropped his ore into, and they would go suspect to the miner, the miner getting annoyed would flip it back going suspect to the can flipper at which point they just blew them up. It caught a lot of new players and a lot of people who did not understand the mechanics, then they would have fun killing that person in front of their corp mates and taunting them. CCP changed this mechanic, so they went suspect to all. There was a group of old players who hated the loss of this fun mechanic so they decided to attack CCP by directly attacking new players to punish them and that is CODE. Many of its supporters and its founder were directly upset with the change to this mechanic.
Does that help?
I doubt whether it helps much, if at all, since you're using the OP's genuine concerns to trot out once again your somewhat bigoted take on the New Order of Highsec (via the CODE. Alliance, which is part of the Order).
You're leaving, so I'll keep this short.
It is true that some veteran players were disappointed by the removal of can-flipping as a viable activity; among them James 315. He's said it himself, so that's not in question.
However, you're wrong to imply that my comrades and I specifically target new players; we do not. If they're in our sights, they'll get popped, but so will anyone else.
It was following the demise of can-flipping that James began to bump miners out of mining range in order to persuade them to give him money. This activity was later attached to the purchase of Mining Permits.
Those are the facts Dracvlad. I wish you well in whatever you decide to do October 7th onwards!
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
26937
|
Posted - 2016.10.01 17:16:01 -
[39] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:No offense OP, but you have no clue how this game works and how you can survive. One reason, you (and others complaining in this thread) obviously never bothered learning the PvP mechanics*, which is crucial even for a "carebear" who never wants to engage in a fight. It's trivial to stay reasonable safe, and avoid being ganked/killed if you know the mechanics and make use of it. Yes, it means situational awareness and watching the news, and sometimes choosing the 90% but much safer solution (e.g. Skiff over Mack). You won't be able to eliminate risk completely, but it should be a calculated risk. Eve is all about economic decisions an calculated risks. Indeed, remaining relatively safe is simply a matter of knowing the risks and planning for them; you don't to outrun the predators, it's often enough to be a less appetising meal than the other carebears by virtue of playing smarter than them.
Civilised behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
New Player FAQ
Feyd's Survival Pack
|
Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
419
|
Posted - 2016.10.01 18:53:59 -
[40] - Quote
A lot of players signed up to play this game because it was a dangerous universe where stuff could go terribly wrong.
They know what happens when the "We just want to do our own thing" masses start asking the game developers for stuff: the devs listen and the universe gets made safer and more boring.
The "Get out of this game, you're going to ruin it" has its element of truth to it.
A signature :o
|
|
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
1222
|
Posted - 2016.10.01 19:39:15 -
[41] - Quote
Teirnid wrote:Also, where did all this animosity come from toward miners and haulers? Just curious. No idea. I've never experienced it int this way.
I've been mining and socializing in highsec with nullsec players, lowsec dwellers, wormholers, hulkageddon gankers. And who knows, without being aware, maybe even with code supporters. All of them great guys and no bias or superiority towards miners.
I don't know why my EVE experience is so different from yours. Maybe I was just lucky to get in touch with the right folks in the right moment.
So what I can say from my experience is, that your conclusions are way too simple and that my reality is different.
Should you decide to leave EVE, well, best of luck with whatever you want to do in the future.
Remove insurance.
|
Lasisha Mishi
Caldari Strike Witches
45
|
Posted - 2016.10.01 19:45:57 -
[42] - Quote
heres a better question to ask
why do people keep returning to EVE. what appeal does it have that we continue to return.
if you can answer that, you'll know why some people don't come back, while others will always be drawn back |
Teirnid
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2016.10.01 20:03:57 -
[43] - Quote
To Dracvlad Taishi Combine,
As you are the only mature person to respond to this thread with reasonable open mind and honesty while keeping to the facts and not slandering anyone person in the process.
I appreciate your reply. I know that this thread has been over run by the Trolls. Still, thank you for your time. I wish you the best of luck in the wars to come. I think that your right. (I know this next part will really get people fired up. =P) Alot of people think like the current republican candidate of the USA. My way is the only right way. All others are wrong and I will punish them till they come to my perspective of thinking, whether that is low, null, not flying a miner or hualer or helping gank. Every person believes their way of playing EVE is the right and only way. It's sad to see humanity brought so low.
If a player knew that if they performed a gank they would be shot in the leg in real life most would not do it. =D But this is a video game. Real world consequences do not apply. Not should they. Video game's, in general, shouldn't be taken too seriously. But Truth is no one plays a video game to get their ass kicked.
This game is about PvP and Casual PvE does not exist.
On a side thought. I think you hit a nail on the head. CODE thinks of mining as beneath them. Boring. And they can not understand how anyone would find it fun. They can't stand that someone would be finding enjoyment in something they find time consuming. So they try to punish them to make themselves feel better. It's brilliant in a twisted way. In any case. I'm not a miner. Gave up on it long ago. And Hauling I gave up on too after the Burning of Jita. I've learned from mistakes, painful as they were.
This is will be my last entry. Let the Trolls have their fun. I won't read their posts. But to any new players or players who have gotten ganked and are searching for understanding as to why and how and what happened, I hope this has been helpful. Don't feed the Troll and my you find solace in your loss. |
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
1222
|
Posted - 2016.10.01 20:05:08 -
[44] - Quote
Lasisha Mishi wrote:heres a better question to ask
why do people keep returning to EVE. what appeal does it have that we continue to return.
if you can answer that, you'll know why some people don't come back, while others will always be drawn back My accounts will lapse in the next months because I simply don't have the time to play anymore. If ever this changes and EVE is still what it used to be, I'll be back.
Best mmo out there in my opinion.
Remove insurance.
|
Cien Banchiere
Extrinsic Arcadia Distribution
114
|
Posted - 2016.10.01 20:19:58 -
[45] - Quote
I hate to break it to you but EVE does stand for everyone verse everyone. The problem is you think in terms of these terms which have actual value. The conversion people use to give a real world estimate is only in terms of plex. If you did buy all that and lost it, yes that is pretty rough, but if nit remember its just pixels. The thing is, as a capsule er you are expected to learn some harsh lessons in some form. I have had two corps close because of bad incidents. I lost all of my possessions once, two years of items shot down in a few seconds. It was an emergency evacuation and died running through low sec. Then the corp air joined afterwards was torn apart by awoxing. I'm still flying today. I am still a industrialist. In fact, a few months ago my corp had a freighter pilot bumped off the gate in a hauling alt. We live 42 jumps from HS. He let us known and we used 3 out of corp, noncombat alts to keep him from being bumped too far. Eventually the would be ganker gave up. Understand that loss happens. The feeling of losing your space can be rough, but we chalk it up to experience. Don't kill your enemies with kindness, just figure out how they operate and deny them their fun. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14797
|
Posted - 2016.10.01 20:22:10 -
[46] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Tipa Riot wrote:No offense OP, but you have no clue how this game works and how you can survive. One reason, you (and others complaining in this thread) obviously never bothered learning the PvP mechanics*, which is crucial even for a "carebear" who never wants to engage in a fight. It's trivial to stay reasonable safe, and avoid being ganked/killed if you know the mechanics and make use of it. Yes, it means situational awareness and watching the news, and sometimes choosing the 90% but much safer solution (e.g. Skiff over Mack). You won't be able to eliminate risk completely, but it should be a calculated risk. Eve is all about economic decisions an calculated risks. Indeed, remaining relatively safe is simply a matter of knowing the risks and planning for them; you don't to outrun the predators, playing smarter than the carebears is enough to make you a less appetising meal.
LOL true, the classic "I don't have to out run the bear, I just have to outrun YOU" strategy. And it works., althought I use a different strategy, the one where one doesn't even inhabit the BS forest (High Sec) the bear craps in .
But hey, at least today I learned that "Troll" translates as "people who can actually successfully play a video game and lose stuff without getting their feelings hurt". |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2437
|
Posted - 2016.10.01 21:08:11 -
[47] - Quote
Teirnid wrote:To Dracvlad Taishi Combine,
As you are the only mature person to respond to this thread with reasonable open mind and honesty while keeping to the facts and not slandering anyone person in the process.
I appreciate your reply. I know that this thread has been over run by the Trolls. Still, thank you for your time. I wish you the best of luck in the wars to come. I think that your right. (I know this next part will really get people fired up. =P) Alot of people think like the current republican candidate of the USA. My way is the only right way. All others are wrong and I will punish them till they come to my perspective of thinking, whether that is low, null, not flying a miner or hualer or helping gank. Every person believes their way of playing EVE is the right and only way. It's sad to see humanity brought so low.
If a player knew that if they performed a gank they would be shot in the leg in real life most would not do it. =D But this is a video game. Real world consequences do not apply. Not should they. Video game's, in general, shouldn't be taken too seriously. But Truth is no one plays a video game to get their ass kicked.
This game is about PvP and Casual PvE does not exist.
On a side thought. I think you hit a nail on the head. CODE thinks of mining as beneath them. Boring. And they can not understand how anyone would find it fun. They can't stand that someone would be finding enjoyment in something they find time consuming. So they try to punish them to make themselves feel better. It's brilliant in a twisted way. In any case. I'm not a miner. Gave up on it long ago. And Hauling I gave up on too after the Burning of Jita. I've learned from mistakes, painful as they were.
This is will be my last entry. Let the Trolls have their fun. I won't read their posts. But to any new players or players who have gotten ganked and are searching for understanding as to why and how and what happened, I hope this has been helpful. Don't feed the Troll and my you find solace in your loss.
Thanks, but you might want to read this
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
|
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2438
|
Posted - 2016.10.01 21:28:19 -
[48] - Quote
Sasha Nemtsov wrote:[I wish you well in whatever you decide to do October 7th onwards!
Thanks and I wish you well, I have to say I have total respect for the organisation and dedication of CODE players.
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
|
Teirnid
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2016.10.01 21:47:34 -
[49] - Quote
Mara Pahrdi wrote:Teirnid wrote:Also, where did all this animosity come from toward miners and haulers? Just curious. No idea. I've never experienced it int this way. I've been mining and socializing in highsec with nullsec players, lowsec dwellers, wormholers, hulkageddon gankers. And who knows, without being aware, maybe even with code supporters. All of them great guys and no bias or superiority towards miners. I don't know why my EVE experience is so different from yours. Maybe I was just lucky to get in touch with the right folks in the right moment. So what I can say from my experience is, that your conclusions are way too simple and that my reality is different. Should you decide to leave EVE, well, best of luck with whatever you want to do in the future.
My apologies to Jenn aSide I didn't see your post. You were very respectful with your comments. I wish you luck. I'm glad your experience has been better over all then mine. Be Safe.
Teirnid |
Railyn Quisqueya
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
15
|
Posted - 2016.10.01 21:48:22 -
[50] - Quote
Teirnid wrote:Also, where did all this animosity come from toward miners and haulers? Just curious. Basically, human nature. I remember when I started out back in '05. The hate was all about mission runners. They were considered by gankers the very lowest form of scum in the game. Miners were actually appreciated and held in very high regards because at the time, the reason was they brought value to the game in the form of minerals and building materials. Mission runners brought 'nothing but inflation'.
The forums were filled with vile and hateful threads, as they are today, but instead directed at mission runners. Gankers need a reason to justify the need of wanting tears. They need to demonize their target to make their play not just acceptable, but righteous and a civil duty.
Dravclad said it best a few posts back. You have to realize these player types are here to ruin your game and make you mad. And they get home court advantage and VIP-like treatment from CCP. Find a way to keep yourself out of their radar, like not flying commonly targeted ships or doing activities they prey on.
If you can't find enjoyment in your game and what you do, take a little break and wait it out a bit. I've been through this myself. So I really do feel you. In any case, I wish you success in whatever you decide to do o7. |
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
26940
|
Posted - 2016.10.01 22:20:15 -
[51] - Quote
Teirnid wrote:Also, where did all this animosity come from toward miners and haulers? Just curious. They're activities that are easily done afk, so people do them afk; while forgetting that Eve is as much a PvP game as any multiplayer FPS.
This is widely regarded as a bad idea.
TL;DR People make themselves easy targets, and other people take advantage of that.
Civilised behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
New Player FAQ
Feyd's Survival Pack
|
Mikkhi Kisht
Vanity Thy Name Is
13
|
Posted - 2016.10.02 01:16:43 -
[52] - Quote
To OP;
Eve Online. It's many things to many people. For me, I came into the game with a bit of a headsup. Before I fired up the first trial account I did some research, as to how the niche sandbox that is Eve tended to behave. So it was a swamp of articles ranging from 'toxic carebear avoidance' and 'Grr these specific toons/corps/alliances' to 'how not to look like an idiot by asking where the Auction House is.' So I had a vague idea on house rules. If it didn't bust the ToS, EULA, or exploit game mechanic glitches, just about anything goes.
I still hang out here, because of the same reasons I logged in the first time. Challenge. Effort. risk vs. loss odds. Some of the people I've flown with, been in corps with, or just chat with while we meander in different regions. Others stay for giant battles in null, being scrappy with a WH life for them, or roam in lowsec with fittings that would bust my wallet after too many losses but gives them the grins they're after. And yes, for some, eating highsec space rocks by the Procurer load is their idea of a nice evening playing a game. We're all jumbled in here together, kind of like roomates that didn't get a vote on who moved into the side bedroom. Solving those complaints involves guns, drones, missiles, scouts, situational awareness, and the willingness to fight or flight out of that confrontation.
Just like there are different reasons people come to Eve and stay, there are different reasons to finally dock up, log out, and not come back. To each their own.
Eve is, has been, and even with upcoming Alpha Clone options, will remain a niche game with a different type of regular gamer. That's not good, bad, or indifferent. However... to expect a game company and/or the majority in a game to play a 'wun twue way' decided by someone else is rather like herding various breeds of felines. It won't happen, it won't end well, and odds are high someone might get mauled by a jaguar having a really bad day. I've lived in all four types of space. I'm content for now to hang out as a Highsec 85%er with the occasional WH dive. Will it remain so? Meh, I dunno yet. Is my style of Eve the wun twue way?
Nope. None of us use that play-style. Once that lesson sinks in, goals and expectations can develop. If Eve isn't for you, then it isn't for you at this time. To each their own. If you are heading to other MMO pastures, hope you find a game that fits the niche you prefer. Me? I'll keep haunting Eve for now. It's working out alright as my MMO of choice.
>Mikk |
Ila Dace
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
13318
|
Posted - 2016.10.03 01:25:43 -
[53] - Quote
I'm making that sound that's like riffling a pack of cards at the bottom of my nasal canal, just above the palate.
If House played Eve: http://i.imgur.com/y7ShT.jpg
But in purple, I'm stunning!
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Sasha Nemtsov
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
170
|
Posted - 2016.10.03 06:54:55 -
[54] - Quote
Ila Dace wrote:I'm making that sound that's like riffling a pack of cards at the bottom of my nasal canal, just above the palate.
My dear, that will be nothing to the sounds emitted by the musculature and vertebrae of your overworked spine as they struggle to compensate for the enormous weight of that (undoubtedly admirable) bosom of yours.
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Mr M
Sebiestor Tribe
468
|
Posted - 2016.10.03 13:46:10 -
[55] - Quote
It's those damned rainbows, they crawl up your leg and bite you in the ass.
Share your experience
Write for the EVE Tribune
www.eve-tribune.com
|
Toobo
Project Fruit House Solyaris Chtonium
248
|
Posted - 2016.10.03 15:32:27 -
[56] - Quote
I find it very strange you talk about lack of social aspect because of pvp, because from my experience the most engaging social aspects have had roots in pvp in one form or other. It's usually the people who pve but neglect the social aspects that get ganked and chased out easily. It's the lack of willingness to enage with others and orientate themselves with their surrounding environment and people it it that makes high sec pve groups 'weak' vs groups that are motivated and organised with pvp goals. You don't have to enjoy pvp yourself, but broadening your social scope to include those who do, or at least those who know about pvp mechanics and know how to avoid them, will make your eve experience much better, and that's when people get hooked to the game and sub for long time.
I know indy people who don't do pvp, but they actively communicate and group up with others and they have lots of fun and engaging experience in game.
Toobo is a lucky talisman - use Toobo's referral for IWI and you too can be lucky!
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Lasisha Mishi
Caldari Strike Witches
45
|
Posted - 2016.10.03 16:05:14 -
[57] - Quote
why people leave EVE 1. they get burned out after a demanding war. 2. Enemy drives them out and make them feel like they arent havign fun.
hell just watch the mittani's video on "Art of War" by Sun Tzu https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYgpNLEbpYM
Their goal in a fight is to make EVE so difficult and depressing for the enemy that they don't log on. couple this with stress and burn out. Plus a player's losses(which can build up) and a player can feel like "game over, i can't recover" or "its to much work, to little fun"
nothing wrong with this, its what EVE is and can happen in most games(but sandbox more than others)
The players who remain or return are those who don't throw in all they have into 1 bet. but keep some in reserve in case they lose, or who have a plan to recover their losses. or who are ok starting over.
for burn out, players return with time, specially if their corp "take care" of them outside of EVE by playing with them in other games so they remain attached to their corp and eventually feel like taking up the banner in EVE again.
want an example? wow i referencing goonswarm alot...but they burned out right now....and playing together in archeage. you can bet they'll have a higher number of people returning to EVE in time than other corps. and goon used to have the policy of accepting they terrible. so if they lose, oh well. if they win, party. and they used cheap ships so losses didn't hurt much.
compare that to rooks and kings's golden fleet. with their reputation as being really good. if they die, thats an expensive ship to replace if they die without taking out enemies, it hurts more if they lose, it hurts more than it would goonswarm who doesn't expect to win. |
Bing Bangboom
DAMAG Safety Commission
556
|
Posted - 2016.10.03 18:35:11 -
[58] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Sasha Nemtsov wrote:[I wish you well in whatever you decide to do October 7th onwards!
Thanks and I wish you well, I have to say I have total respect for the organisation and dedication of CODE players.
What? All of us?
Highsec is worth fighting for.
By choosing to mine in New Order systems, highsec miners have agreed to follow the New Halaima Code of Conduct.-á www.minerbumping.com
|
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
4685
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 02:20:19 -
[59] - Quote
Opinions are like butts: Everybody's got one, and they usually smell. Here's mine (my opinion, not butt).
-This game's got a huge initial excitement factor. If you've spent any time in the new player corp channels, you can see that. People talk about whether to spend their first isk on a Rifter, Incursus. They worked hard to get the isk for it, they're into the EVE world, and they damn well want to make the right planning decision about how to go forward. Might seem cute/na+»ve to some little more experienced players, but-- try to remember when you were noob, bro. Rule of life on Earth-- There is about 0 way not to be new at any thing you might try for the first time, no?
-If the new players in high sec should have known and prepared for high sec gankers, then logically that experience should be in the tutorials. Otherwise, how is a new guy checking out the game supposed to know? Outside of game Google searching? What search terms?
-It pretty unfeasible to play this game solo/casual/limited time-attention. That is, if your plan is to undock and fly spaceships around. Why not? Because so many people have dual/alt accounts. One mind vs. one mind is great, but one ship vs. two ships is a lose. Pretty much always.
-There are some guys who will be ready to play intensely, from the get-go. With the gank and wardec environment in high sec, they'd best pretty quickly join up with coaching vets, not other new guys exploring Eve together. Boy, that sure is some fun, being diaper/nose-wipe/suck up trainee boy. How's that for inviting good people into the community?
-Organized group with a focus and experience (gankers, wardeccers, anybody else with a plan). Hazy cloud of incoming strangers who know nobody, don't know each other, have no special reason to want to know each other and form up. Don't know the game mechanics. Which side vs. which "side" is going to get kills in this situation?
Start the bubble machine!
-Lawrence Welk
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Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
2797
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Posted - 2016.10.05 08:16:16 -
[60] - Quote
Khergit Deserters wrote:-If the new players in high sec should have known and prepared for high sec gankers, then logically that experience should be in the tutorials. Otherwise, how is a new guy checking out the game supposed to know? Outside of game Google searching? What search terms? It's been a bit, but I am pretty sure the tutorials try to hammer home the point that nowhere is safe, you shouldn't get too attached to your ship, and that you shouldn't fly what you cannot afford to lose. Certainly, the New Pilot FAQ produced by CCP does (start in section 7), and makes clear what type of game this is.
Perhaps this could be done better, but I don't think you can fault CCP for not trying. Maybe the new NPE in November will do a better job.
Khergit Deserters wrote:-It pretty unfeasible to play this game solo/casual/limited time-attention. That is, if your plan is to undock and fly spaceships around. Why not? Because so many people have dual/alt accounts. One mind vs. one mind is great, but one ship vs. two ships is a lose. Pretty much always. This is true, but intentional. I would also agree it is a problem but it isn't trivial to solve. The game is designed to encourage forming social/larger groups, which is good probably even for new players as numbers are useful so they are often welcomed, but when implemented badly, like say mining, just encourages single players to multibox multiple accounts. This is terrible for new/casual/solo players who have no hope of competing with them without doing the same.
I agree that a casual player interested in mining must be disappointed when they realize they can never compete with the multibox fleets Hoovering up the belts and probably many of them leave Eve at this point.
Khergit Deserters wrote:-There are some guys who will be ready to play intensely, from the get-go. With the gank and wardec environment in high sec, they'd best pretty quickly join up with coaching vets, not other new guys exploring Eve together. Boy, that sure is some fun, being diaper/nose-wipe/suck up trainee boy. How's that for inviting good people into the community?
-Organized group with a focus and experience (gankers, wardeccers, anybody else with a plan). Hazy cloud of incoming strangers who know nobody, don't know each other, have no special reason to want to know each other and form up. Don't know the game mechanics. Which side vs. which "side" is going to get kills in this situation? Eve is a competitive PvP sandbox. It is specifically designed so that the largest, and most well-organized groups have the most success. It would be foolish to expect new players to enter such an environment and be competitive with no experience, assets, or allies.
That said, there is nothing preventing new players from joining up with some of the existing 'big boys' and immediately be part of a competitive organization. Maybe some of their egos are too fragile to enter as a 'newbie', but there are all sorts of training options available in all sectors of space. Even the most green Eve player is an asset in the open-world type of game Eve is as he is better than nothing, so unless they are completely unreliable or unpleasant, they should find a home easily.
This integration of new players could all be done better I suppose, and the game could actively discourage/warn/coerce players away from trying to play the game solo. Again, let's see what happens in November.
Khergit Deserters wrote:People ought to be given time and a chance to explore and test out the game, IMO. They're new, but not all of them are stupid or carebear mentality. If they are, so what? What does that hurt? You want your game to survive, give people a chance to test their IQs and their risk-taking mettle as they go. No need to stuff HTFU down their throats. Smart or busy people really don't need that in an MMO. The problem with this 'idea' to give a safe space to new players is that is almost always offered by veteran players who are just looking for a way to keep themselves safe. It is extremely difficult to give safety to genuine new players without it just being exploited by veteran players who will move in and out-compete the new players for resources, forcing them to either move out to the more dangerous space, or suffer with the low value or scare resources.
So yes, a safe space does hurt the game. Such a place can only exist in a sandbox game if it isn't economically valuable. It seems we might get that in the form of a new instanced NPE, which could give a safe space for players to learn the interface and the basic ideas of the game and that would be great, but the fundamental problem is that much of Eve you can only really learn by playing, and by playing you have to be vulnerable to the other players or they game doesn't work given we are all each other's content. You can't have invulnerable rookie ships flying around, or some mechanic where new traders can't lose ISK on the market. We are all in this universe together.
Some players, even smart players, won't make it over this learning curve before they are discouraged by losses and/or boredom. Others just aren't looking to play a competitive PvP sandbox where they can actually lose to other players with their spare time. There is nothing wrong with this as Eve is definitely not for everyone, nor has it been designed for everyone despite what some of the more flamboyant carebears will claim. Eve aspires to be more than a missioning game, mining simulator or even fleet combat game. It is trying to be a whole virtual world where everyone is vs. everyone all the time and everywhere. That idea comes with some constraints on what type of game play is allowed in this universe, and for some players, that means Eve will never be the game for them.
The 8 Golden Rules of Eve
Why Do They Gank?
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