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Teirnid
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2016.10.01 07:52:15 -
[1] - Quote
So I'm going to prefix this with statement that the following is going to spark controversy and not everyone is going to agree.
EVE online has been built to cater to those who enjoy PvP. I get that this is EVE and the learning curve is very high. Maybe that's the problem. The learning Curve is high. I know many players don't make it that far as newbs because of the curve. The tutorial has helped with that alot. Chalk one up for CCP.
That being said, I left EVE after getting past the starting stuff. Why did I leave? I was ganked. Yeah, I know. It's part of the game. Put your big boy pants on and deal. And I did...... when it happened the first time. But the second time came to a $105.00 death if in game money was converted to real world funds. I happen to be in Jita during the second burning in my freighter. A death of a hulk or Mackinaw you can recover from. It sucks but that's life. But a death of that scale you can't recover from. It's crippling.
I had contacted support and to be fair it was a fair kill in High Sec as a gank. There was nothing they could do. I informed CCP that I was quitting EVE effective immediately. That they would no longer receive my money. Many gankers run two accounts. one for their personal use and one for ganking specifically. It makes sense that CCP would support players that are paying for two accounts instead of one. And as a ganker, they need prey. Fair fights are for suckers. So of course they go for the easy kill.
I came back to EVE finally after 3 years of swearing that I would not play again just to check out what the changes were before the game goes F2P. Honestly, not much has changed. Some of the corps have moved around and miner ship additions and changes but people still troll and grief because as a killer they feed on other peoples tears.
Most people who have a real live outside the game with real concerns and real world problems can't afford to have hours and hours of intensive labor be ripped away because a ganker thinks it's fun. They want that easy kill. Prey if you will. And they won't go to low sec because suddenly they have something more to loose and the players down there aren't as easy a kill.
Now with CODE in the high sec and more organized then in the days of Hulkageddon it's even worse. Packs of 12 Catalyst roaming the high sec destroying anyone they please and not caring about the alt account. It makes me sad to realize that EVE hasn't really changed at all. It's a game for the PvPer's only and not for anyone looking for the Social or PvE aspect. I believe a DEV CCP Rise even said that most new players don't make it that fair due to the lack of social interaction with corps. I feel that EVE had alot going for it but the population of the game is down from where is was three years ago. I remember when roaming High Sec wasn't a thing and Roaming in Hounds and Manicores were a thing in low sec.
I feel that this is largely in part to the focus being on PvP and not on the Social aspect. And it's difficult to focus on Social when the minute you undock you are fearing for your ship and your life. Why play if all that's going to happen is your going to die in high sec. Worse yet would be a newer player who doesn't even know the risk he is running being in a mining barge early game getting ganked and not understanding why he got ganked or how he could do a better job to avoid it in the future. Either make Null, low, and high sec all the same or increase the punishment for ganking in high sec. That or specifically advertise the game as PvP game and nothing else.
EVE is a nitch market. You have to make the Game cater to more then just the Killers and gankers or you'll never grow the gamer base. But you have to make the change without upsetting the PvP players you have currently. I think that when my subscription is up I won't renew it. It was good to see the game again but not enough has changed to get me to stay.
I wish the best of luck to you CCP. Fly Safe. |
Bishop Bob
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
26
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Posted - 2016.10.01 08:01:32 -
[2] - Quote
Why didn't you....No, it isn't even worth trying to help. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
26933
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Posted - 2016.10.01 08:19:45 -
[3] - Quote
You flew a freighter during a well publicised event that was all about killing freighters and other expensive stuff in the very system the event was targeting, and you exploded. WTF did you think was going to happen?
To top it off you then quit because you couldn't handle the fact that the blame for your demise rests entirely upon yourself. You've since come back and are complaining about PvP happening in a PvP game, so you're going to quit again.
Be sure to biomass all of your characters after you give me your stuff.
Civilised behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
New Player FAQ
Feyd's Survival Pack
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Violet Hurst
Fedaya Recon
93
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Posted - 2016.10.01 08:19:50 -
[4] - Quote
Jesus Christ, James. You're awesome, we get it. You don't have to remind us with a new thread every other day. |
Sitting Bull Lakota
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
168
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Posted - 2016.10.01 08:20:26 -
[5] - Quote
So do you or do you not have stuff that I can have?
On a more serious note, I think you have let your disdain for pvp and fear of loss prevent you from recognizing the point of the game. Ships don't matter. Isk doesn't matter. These are rounds in your magazine. Don't get attached to them. Use your resources to accomplish the goals you set for yourself.
You don't want to interact with others, because you might get griefed? It's a pitiable state to be in where you shy away from social interaction for fear of losing imaginary wealth. |
Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri
New Order Logistics CODE.
542
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Posted - 2016.10.01 08:27:26 -
[6] - Quote
You know that you've got ganked real good when it takes you more than three years to get to the forums to complain about it. |
Vincent Pelletier
Pelletier Imports and Exports
46
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Posted - 2016.10.01 08:39:23 -
[7] - Quote
"I bought some Marmite 3 years ago and really didn't like it so I sent a letter to the company that makes it that I'm really not happy about this and that I would stop buying their Marmite unless they would make it taste more like peanut butter. I just tried it again and wtf, it STILL tastes like Marmite, how stupid are these people? Can't they see that if they'd change Marmite to taste more like peanut butter they'd sell so much more? They must be idiots to not want me, a peanut butter lover, to buy their Marmite".
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Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1099
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Posted - 2016.10.01 09:06:23 -
[8] - Quote
There's an existing thread that is currently at 91 pages long right on this very page.
Why did you need your own special snowflake thread?
Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
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Vincent Pelletier
Pelletier Imports and Exports
46
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Posted - 2016.10.01 09:19:08 -
[9] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:There's an existing thread that is currently at 91 pages long right on this very page.
Why did you need your own special snowflake thread? He sent CCP a message dontyouknow that the game should be changed according to his ideas because he runs two (TWO!!!) accounts, so his opinion is clearly more important. The one account plebs can post in that thread. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
4466
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Posted - 2016.10.01 09:21:24 -
[10] - Quote
I think the OP has a point and it boils down to one question:
Do we want more players who do not enjoy space combat?
A basic rule of EVE is: any ship in any space can be destroyed. This should never change, and I don't think it ever will.
But currently in EVE there already are several activities that don't involve destructable ships in space:
. Station trading . SP farming . Gambling . Scamming . Industry (in NPC stations) . Diplomacy . Probably several others I forgot
Some of them may require hauling at some point, but hauling can be outsourced to friends or specialized corps.
PI is an exception as, to my knowledge, the customs office logistics must be done by the character doing the PI on the planet.
These activites are quite popular, quite essential to EVE's ecosystem and quite impactful (IWI funding WWB immediately comes to mind). They are also strongly linked to spaceship PVP - materials and trade goods need to be hauled, the ISK for gambling ultimately comes from in-space activities like ratting, etc. But on their own, they can be performed while never undocking.
So finally we already have a great symbiotic relationship between 'non-pilots' that never risk a ship (though they often risk their ISK in other ways) and pilots.
Since this already works quite well, maybe CCP should look to add more non-spaceship activities, for example: . Gambling in stations, of the 'PVP' kind (e.g. poker) . Player-made SKINs and/or clothing (though there must be the need to move them in space before selling, else we'd lose the symbiosis with PVP; for example, make them designable anywhere but manufacturable just in null or WH space) . Re-working PI to decouple the PI activity from the hauling (allowing contracts in customs offices, for example)
TL;DR: freighters will always be gankable, as any ship in any space. But we could all benefit from offering 'peaceful' players more options to actively be part of the game and the community.
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
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Vincent Pelletier
Pelletier Imports and Exports
46
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Posted - 2016.10.01 09:23:06 -
[11] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:I think the OP has a point and it boils down to one question:
Do we want more players who do not enjoy space combat?
That's not what he's saying.
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Arcelian
Metentis
196
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Posted - 2016.10.01 09:25:37 -
[12] - Quote
Vincent Pelletier wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:There's an existing thread that is currently at 91 pages long right on this very page.
Why did you need your own special snowflake thread? He sent CCP a message dontyouknow that the game should be changed according to his ideas because he runs two (TWO!!!) accounts, so his opinion is clearly more important. The one account plebs can post in that thread.
I have 6 accounts so I must be on god-like status with CCP. I should really have a forum all to myself. |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
13014
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Posted - 2016.10.01 09:28:20 -
[13] - Quote
Teirnid wrote:But the second time came to a $105.00 death if in game money was converted to real world funds
RMTer detected
Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .
Bumble's Space Log
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Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
4466
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Posted - 2016.10.01 09:30:02 -
[14] - Quote
Vincent Pelletier wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:I think the OP has a point and it boils down to one question:
Do we want more players who do not enjoy space combat? That's not what he's saying. It's the interesting part, once you filter all the whining.
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
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Vincent Pelletier
Pelletier Imports and Exports
46
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Posted - 2016.10.01 09:32:48 -
[15] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Vincent Pelletier wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:I think the OP has a point and it boils down to one question:
Do we want more players who do not enjoy space combat? That's not what he's saying. It's the interesting part, once you filter all the whining.
No what he's saying is "I want to play this game but without the risk of losses, why isn't CCP listening to me?". |
Avaelica Kuershin
Paper Cats
284
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Posted - 2016.10.01 09:42:33 -
[16] - Quote
Teirnid wrote: EVE is a nitch market. You have to make the Game cater to more then just the Killers and gankers or you'll never grow the gamer base. But you have to make the change without upsetting the PvP players you have currently. I think that when my subscription is up I won't renew it. It was good to see the game again but not enough has changed to get me to stay.
I wish the best of luck to you CCP. Fly Safe.
But EVE does cater to more than the "Killers and Gankers". It's just that my Hauler alt has to be looking very carefully when traveling certain routes (carrying a scouting ship seems a good idea) and that makes a boring task more enjoyable. And I have to be observant when doing exploration. What would EVE be like without the threat?
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Tennoku
Mercury Nation
17
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Posted - 2016.10.01 09:51:29 -
[17] - Quote
Vincent Pelletier wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Vincent Pelletier wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:I think the OP has a point and it boils down to one question:
Do we want more players who do not enjoy space combat? That's not what he's saying. It's the interesting part, once you filter all the whining. No what he's saying is "I want to play this game but without the risk of losses, why isn't CCP listening to me?".
You're talking past Gully. He's taking what the OP said, and drawing a related but different lesson to the OP that he thinks is interesting. |
Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
597
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Posted - 2016.10.01 10:08:27 -
[18] - Quote
Teirnid wrote:
EVE is a nitch market. You have to make the Game cater to more then just the Killers and gankers or you'll never grow the gamer base. But you have to make the change without upsetting the PvP players you have currently. I think that when my subscription is up I won't renew it. It was good to see the game again but not enough has changed to get me to stay.
I wish the best of luck to you CCP. Fly Safe.
No offence but this sounds more like like a case of you flying something you could't afford to lose. CCP doesn't need to cater to anyone's playstyle. Highsec is totally awkward though, I agree. I'm not really sure what would be the best solution but I do have my observations and I've basically summed up that there are 3 kinds of Eve players. One's like you that won't adapt despite having a Large Ion Blaster held to your head, then there's the highsec guys with the Large Ion Blaster, and then the rest of us.
I hope you don't take this loss as your reason to quit the game. There's far better reasons to quit
@lunettelulu7
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18225
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Posted - 2016.10.01 10:23:33 -
[19] - Quote
Vincent Pelletier wrote:
No what he's saying is "I want to play this game but without the risk of losses, why isn't CCP listening to me?".
Unfortunately they have been. |
Takoma Panala
State War Academy Caldari State
33
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Posted - 2016.10.01 10:38:28 -
[20] - Quote
Avaelica Kuershin wrote: But EVE does cater to more than the "Killers and Gankers". It's just that my Hauler alt has to be looking very carefully when traveling certain routes (carrying a scouting ship seems a good idea) and that makes a boring task more enjoyable. And I have to be observant when doing exploration. What would EVE be like without the threat?
A pretty screensaver? |
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Gwenaelle de Ardevon
Ordum Eternam
4601
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Posted - 2016.10.01 11:11:17 -
[21] - Quote
Avaelica Kuershin wrote:Teirnid wrote: EVE is a nitch market. You have to make the Game cater to more then just the Killers and gankers or you'll never grow the gamer base. But you have to make the change without upsetting the PvP players you have currently. I think that when my subscription is up I won't renew it. It was good to see the game again but not enough has changed to get me to stay.
I wish the best of luck to you CCP. Fly Safe.
But EVE does cater to more than the "Killers and Gankers". It's just that my Hauler alt has to be looking very carefully when traveling certain routes (carrying a scouting ship seems a good idea) and that makes a boring task more enjoyable. And I have to be observant when doing exploration. What would EVE be like without the threat?
just Boring...
I like that game between Cat and Mouse....
Do you know Tom & Jerry... I'm like Jerry ... i can run, and run.......
«An hour sitting with a pretty girl on a park bench passes like a minute, but a minute sitting on a hot stove seems like an hour».
Albert Einstein - [11, S. 154]
More Quotes, Poetry & Prose on: https://gwenaelledeardevon.wordpress.com/
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Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
1219
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Posted - 2016.10.01 11:15:18 -
[22] - Quote
Teirnid wrote:I feel that this is largely in part to the focus being on PvP and not on the Social aspect. And it's difficult to focus on Social when the minute you undock you are fearing for your ship and your life.
This is just nonsense.
What you are basically telling us is, that you are ok with risk, as long as you can opt out of it at your leisure.
EVE is just not that kind of game. And it is a good thing.
Remove insurance.
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Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
2787
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Posted - 2016.10.01 11:38:42 -
[23] - Quote
Teirnid wrote:EVE is a nitch market. You have to make the Game cater to more then just the Killers and gankers or you'll never grow the gamer base. But you have to make the change without upsetting the PvP players you have currently. I think that when my subscription is up I won't renew it. It was good to see the game again but not enough has changed to get me to stay.
I wish the best of luck to you CCP. Fly Safe. Because you have decided that Eve is not for you, you've decided to lecture CCP on how to develop their 13-year old MMO? A game that has outlasted almost all its contemporaries and has tens, or maybe hundreds of thousand customers who are happy to pay for its near-unique game play? Talk about self-important.
Eve Online isn't for you. Fine. Whether you just never got what the game is about, or maybe you did and it isn't what you want to spend your leisure time on doesn't matter as the world doesn't revolved around you. Many of us like playing in a competitive sandbox and accept that for us to be able to affect the game play of others, we have to be vulnerable to everyone else.
What you are asking for is impossible. Removing the possibility of loss and maintaining a functioning player-driven economy is not workable. Eve is not a space combat simulator or FarmVille in space clone. It is an attempt to create a living work of science-fiction where we all compete with each other for power and riches in a virtual universe.
You seem more than happy to benefit from living in that universe by building and selling stuff in Jita which only have value because of the demand destruction creates, yet when that universe came for you and claimed your freighter you had a hissy fit and rage quit like a child losing at a game of checkers. Sorry friend, if you want to compete economically with all of us you have to be vulnerable to all of us as we are all to each other. You don't get to isolate yourself behind the wall and only accumulate resources at no risk to the other players. If everyone could do that, Eve would be a boring, non-functional game.
So go away. If you don't want to play there are plenty of other games out there for you to play but don't tell CCP to turn the game I want to be playing into something else entirely because that is what you want to play. So selfish.
The 8 Golden Rules of Eve
Why Do They Gank?
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Buoytender Bob
Ronin Exploration Mission and Mining
207
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Posted - 2016.10.01 12:26:16 -
[24] - Quote
...and complaining about the core aspect of EVE in the forums is always productive; usually in flames,however.
To buck the popular trend, I began to Rage Start instead of Rage Quit.
...and every time I get another piece of Carbon, I know exactly what CCP is getting this Christmas.
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2435
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Posted - 2016.10.01 12:41:16 -
[25] - Quote
The first thing I would ask you (the OP) is whether you count yourself as casual, and what level of intelligence gathering do you do, when I started this game in 2009 I was told that it was a harsh game full of people who liked to gather tears and were good at the game, so for me that was a challenge to go into this game and test myself. I went into the forums, read up what they did, people like to brag you know and I got a good idea of how they operated. So from day one I was difficult to kill in that I had a good idea of what I was playing against.
My sub runs out 6th October, I have tested myself, I am worth about 70bn in ISK and assets, I have a very green killboard and was never ganked, well a thrasher once but that was because I was shooting them
From my perspective I ended up testing myself against a game which was balanced in favour of the gankers in terms of a number of mechanics, what I eventually found was that the people I was testing myself against were not worthy of my test, because they were so successful in terms of the mechanics being biased in their favour. I will give you some examples.
CCP decided to buff the DPS of destroyers, this resulted in a single catalyst being able to gank the best tanked mining ship and pod the pilot in a 0.7 and below system. Playing as I did to be hard to kill I made the decision that mining was no longer possible and stopped mining completely. I only mined again after CCP balanced the mining ships so that a top tanked Skiff is about 17 Catalysts, this means that you have a choice to be difficult to kill with the cost of yield and efficiency, at which point I started mining again. That balance issue if you know what I mean.
Next up is freighters, after analysing the freighters and what you can do to protect them and what they can do to gank them I decided as a player with two accounts that I was not able to counter the gankers with anything and therefore sold my freighters, I only use DST's in hisec. The freighter class is no longer worth using, just stop doing it.
I used to go belt ratting in NPC 0.0, but with the change to the drake and heavy missiles (sometime ago) the reduction in reprocessing, differing warp speeds, the addition of D-scan immune combat recons, the fact that everyone and their dog was now able to fly BLOP's, the removal of the watchlist to keep an eye on hot droppers, the use of skill injectors to create perfect clean cyno alts that it was not really worthwhile, so I stopped doing it apart from a quick blast every so often for laughs.
And these examples are how you play Eve, do not do the things that make you easy game, gather intel and understand your risk and if that risk is crazy stupid due to game mechanics don't do it.
I will end with the fact that hunting in this game is being dumbed down so even complete losers can get kills, AFK Cloaky camping is a lazy dumb losers way of getting kills, most of the players doing this are playing other games, and these players want local removed so it becomes even easier and this is the issue, one of my great friends stopped playing Eve 4 years ago, his judgement was that it was no longer the hard game to hunt in, at this point I agree with him, its been dumbed down too much and its full of lazy people who are now whining because there is nothing left to kill, hence the alpha clones in November, which now gets to the final nail in the coffin for me, what the hell is the value of a kill on a alpha clone, it is like taking candy from a baby.
Sadly this game is no longer worth it for me.
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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Smendrik Von'Smendle
The Black Crow Bandits Sarcos Federation
20
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Posted - 2016.10.01 12:50:50 -
[26] - Quote
very sorry you are leaving the game....
I am posting to this thread because the exact opposite just happened to alliance mate of mine a couple of nights ago.....and that is also EvE.... He needed help saving 10bil worth of stuff and we heard the call scrambled what we could, jumped 20 systems went through Thera to get there in time and we did it....we lost ships....we had fun and we met our objective.....my guess is even if we did not accomplish our goal that night we still would have had fun and reminisced about like I can hear in alliance chat as I write this....
Its a well learned saying "The best ship in EvE is Friendship" this is very true but it must be learned.... You must put yourself out there for a group of people who you may never see their faces...
Take Goons....for all their faults/asshatery/skullduggery they were a group of people with similar goals and had fun together (I mean I assume they had fun otherwise why be complete asshats to the outerworld at large?) Even now they have lost most of their space but they are, for the most part still an alliance, maybe with a lot fewer peeps than before but I am sure that weeded out the corps they needed to weed. They continue....they move on....they survive and again I am sure they are having fun... How many billions do think they lost?
I have played EvE off and on since '09 and I can say without a doubt playing this game with friends is 10x more fun that playing solo...
Mining....10x more fun when 15 people are doing the same thing as you even as boring as watching rocks disappear from your screen.
missioning, exploring, and yes PvP all fun by a factor of 10 (or more) when you are with others....
"Death" in EvE is harsher than any other game I have ever played sans early UO. I loved UO when it was harsh and I love EvE for its harshness......why? you may ask....because its how I deal with the consequences that make me a better (or worse) person. (real life lessons can be learned here)
Ask yourself are you better or worse for quitting for the reason you have previously stated?
If better than move on already...
If worse than reevaluate why and work it out and come on back with a different mindset.
If you do come back may I suggest the first thing to enjoy EvE more.......don't worry what your ISK wallet looks like every 10 mins...set goals and achieve them...if you have setbacks don't be afraid to start over and try to achieve again......(again REAL LIFE lessons can be learned doing this)
In any case Im sure I didn't convince you to stay/comeback and play EvE so I will end this for now.....whatever you decide
FLY SAFE o7 |
Minabunny
Dread Guard
69
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Posted - 2016.10.01 13:17:31 -
[27] - Quote
I find it safer to mine in wormhole space than it is hi-sec. You don't have to deal with idiots in local either. |
Karl Jerr
Herzack Unit
118
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Posted - 2016.10.01 14:00:45 -
[28] - Quote
Quote: But the second time came to a $105.00 death if in game money was converted to real world funds. I happen to be in Jita during the second burning in my freighter. A death of a hulk or Mackinaw you can recover from. It sucks but that's life. But a death of that scale you can't recover from. It's crippling.
The problem is that you convert the imaginary price of a scifi vectorized spacecraft in real money term, not the Eve fault in this case. And flying what you can afford to lose?
Death and been trapped (and how to avoid it) is part of the main fun in Eve for bears like us
Anyway fly safe with the ton of other space games around |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2956
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Posted - 2016.10.01 14:12:01 -
[29] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote: My sub runs out 6th October, Sadly this game is no longer worth it for me.
Can I have your stuff and SP?
I'm my own NPC alt.
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ISD Max Trix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
375
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Posted - 2016.10.01 14:17:37 -
[30] - Quote
Moved to Out of Pod.
ISD Max Trix
Lieutenant
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
I do not respond to Evemails.
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