CCP devs are apparently in the goons and goons have an open goon-botting tolerance policy, so clearly not.

Officially most alliances are probably anti-bot, kind of social suicide otherwise, so any answer you get here on an open forum will be irrelevant, tainted, flawed, outright lies.

CCP is getting better at it but they need to accept their limitations and involve the employers (corps/alliances) in the equation: Make employers partially accountable for employee behaviour and introduce some helpful tools (such as activity monitors) for corp/alliance admins to use to ferret out the culprits.

Nice tinfoil hat. Goonswarm was one of the unnamed alliances I mentioned, which I believe (according to my sources) has a "don't report bots" policy. It's not "bots are okay" but it's effectively that anyway. The reason that is put in place is because of idiots who would go through friendly systems reporting every single ratter for botting, which causes unnecessary drama and headaches for everyone. Even worse if those friendly systems are in an ally's space, not the own alliance's space.

I mean, it's understandable, but sort of sad. And that doesn't answer my question either way.

Officially most alliances are probably anti-bot, kind of social suicide otherwise, so any answer you get here on an open forum will be irrelevant, tainted, flawed, outright lies.

CCP is getting better at it but they need to accept their limitations and involve the employers (corps/alliances) in the equation: Make employers partially accountable for employee behaviour and introduce some helpful tools (such as activity monitors) for corp/alliance admins to use to ferret out the culprits.

Might be PL would kick any botting char that got caught and blown. Not because it is ~immoral~, but because he is stupid enough to do it on a main and not on an alt in a renter alliance in some god-forgotten null system.

And on a more serious note, the answer is yes, at least one such alliance exists.

If PL does this, they may have regained the respect I lost for them when they hotdropped my Slicer with an Aeon and a Nyx.

How in the great blue **** did your slicer get tackled by 2 supers?

It's pretty simple: any Alliance that takes a strong stand against botting will lose the 0.0 game as a result and no longer be a viable Alliance in Eve. It's counterproductive for them to report on their own ISK making activities, so why would they? No, it's CCP that needs to step up their efforts against bots...but wait, then they'll lose real life sub dollars, so why would they do that?? A never ending problem...too many people are on the take.

There are far too many ways for people to Bot / RMT on throw away accounts and transferring isk to their respective alliances with zero risk.

Officially most alliances are probably anti-bot, kind of social suicide otherwise, so any answer you get here on an open forum will be irrelevant, tainted, flawed, outright lies.

CCP is getting better at it but they need to accept their limitations and involve the employers (corps/alliances) in the equation: Make employers partially accountable for employee behaviour and introduce some helpful tools (such as activity monitors) for corp/alliance admins to use to ferret out the culprits.

And the 'No Bot Reporting' rule originated in TEST when a bunch of mouthbreathers were mad about the sanctum nerf and couldn't find an empty one to harvest interstellar ***-gold from. So they started reporting people who were honestly just ratting to get them a temp ban until an investigation was completed.

Funny how entire alliances are to blame for RMTing when they could careless about the trivial amounts of ISK to be made in that manner, when a single tech moon produces about 115-130M ISK/Hour (at hurry up and sell prices at that); so why would GoonSwarm RMT when they have enough ISK (as well as the rest of their coalition) to just replace any ship lost in any attempt to ****, murder, purge or kill something?

Besides- if you were the leader or synomous overlord of a nullsec alliance roughly the size of the top 4 alliances (~4600 members on average) where would you find time to monitor the activities of every active member in your alliance? You cannot possibly pin that kind of responsibility on a handful of people, regardless as to what alliance they belong to.

And the 'No Bot Reporting' rule originated in TEST when a bunch of mouthbreathers were mad about the sanctum nerf and couldn't find an empty one to harvest interstellar ***-gold from. So they started reporting people who were honestly just ratting to get them a temp ban until an investigation was completed.

Given the amount of null sec being invaded right now, I would imagine botting out in Null has dropped off signifigantly, and since the Goon Ice Interdiction is over, I don't think anyone would be hard pressed to figure out where they went...

Stuff.

Funny how entire alliances are to blame for RMTing when they could careless about the trivial amounts of ISK to be made in that manner, when a single tech moon produces about 115-130M ISK/Hour (at hurry up and sell prices at that); so why would GoonSwarm RMT when they have enough ISK (as well as the rest of their coalition) to just replace any ship lost in any attempt to ****, murder, purge or kill something?

.....

The claim is they SELL the ISK they make form those moons to get personally rich with real money.

Edit: Zero tolerance Alliance: Ivy League. But they hold no sov.

Maybe if CCP instituted actual rewards (for example, 0.5% of botted isk goes to the whistle blower) on bots reported via their "Report Bot" menu option, more people would be willing to break the "don't ask, don't tell" bot-agreement?

Or everyone would go all ++ber-snitch hoping to score free isk, and there would be more than 9000 reports per hour.

I think what you described here should be the basis for a new (and worthwhile) bounty system in Eve. Bounty Hunter's on the lookout for bots and getting paid phat ISK to do so.

I think you should never post again.

You realize most of the alliances that are the constant target for finger pointers, all have open financials posted either on their super serious 'spreadsheets online' forums, or in game right?

You realize most of the alliances that are the constant target for finger pointers, all have open financials posted either on their super serious 'spreadsheets online' forums, or in game right?

Zero tolerance Alliance: Ivy League. But they hold no sov.

There are several that I know of that are pretty anti-bot in the CFC. I know for sure that Fatal Ascension is definitely anti-bot, and most of the other CFC alliances are also.

PS> Reading comprehension of this post is improved when tin foil hats are removed prior to reading.

CCP devs are apparently in the goons and goons have an open goon-botting tolerance policy, so clearly not.

Or everyone would go all ++ber-snitch hoping to score free isk, and there would be more than 9000 reports per hour.

~ It's 2012 and the world is ending. ~

due to trigger-happy white knight types who report everything in sight...

[quote=Petrus Blackshell]Disliking it when people cheat doesn't make you a 'white knight.' Thats something that bot users just call people who play by the rules so they can feel like they aren't actually cheating or ruining the game.

Disliking it when people cheat doesn't make you a 'white knight.' Thats something that bot users just call people who play by the rules so they can feel like they aren't actually cheating or ruining the game.

The "white knights" are the idiots reporting people who aren't even undocked for botting just because of the alliance they are in.

Spend a few minutes on dotlan and you will find many systems in null where you will have only a small amount of jumps in the last 24 hrs but a very high number of NPC's kills.

For example found a system Pure Blind where it is only showing 9 jump but 696 NPC's kills in the last 24 hours.

Its numbers like this which make people question whether CCP are indeed serious in clamping down / stopping RMT and Botting.

I guess first I'd have to question how Dotlan parses system jumps, primarily, does it parse people that arrive via jump bridge.

Then you'd have to take into account if that system has a station in it, or a friendly pos for the denizens of that system (which im sure it does) depending on the true sec of the system, with an outpost, its entirely possible that players dont leave that system, as most tend to rat where the can at least have an in system outpost/station to run back to and either drop off loot, or buy more ammo.

700 NPC Kills in 24 hours is about 20 Havens/Sanctums. Each taking a tengu about 30 minutes to complete.. Given that, i'm sure you'd find this more then reasonable.

In regards to the system in Pure Blind - 9 Jumps and 686 NPC kills in 24 hours.

No Stations and a system rating of -0.08

The system in Fountain 21 Jumps / 1486 NPC kills in 24 hours

No Station and a system rating of -0.22

Again I am not accusing anyone of doing anything, however would you say that if CCP are serious about clamping down on botters, would these kind of numbers warrant investigation?

Eeww -0.08.

Don't anomaly spawns depend on system upgrades, though? But yes, those do sound suspicious. Check there for bots -> report them -> have fuzzy feelings about improving Eve for everyone.

The "white knights" are the idiots reporting people who aren't even undocked for botting just because of the alliance they are in.

Please lurk before posting, you are a ******* disease GTFO

Confirming Ladie Harlot is the cancer that is killing the Eve Forums.

Nice tinfoil hat. Goonswarm was one of the unnamed alliances I mentioned, which I believe (according to my sources) has a "don't report bots" policy. It's not "bots are okay" but it's effectively that anyway. The reason that is put in place is because of idiots who would go through friendly systems reporting every single ratter for botting, which causes unnecessary drama and headaches for everyone. Even worse if those friendly systems are in an ally's space, not the own alliance's space.

I mean, it's understandable, but sort of sad. And that doesn't answer my question either way.

And the 'No Bot Reporting' rule originated in TEST when a bunch of mouthbreathers were mad about the sanctum nerf and couldn't find an empty one to harvest interstellar ***-gold from. So they started reporting people who were honestly just ratting to get them a temp ban until an investigation was completed.

Funny you run your mouth about how I'm not on "other forums", but you can go to those other forums and read all about who bots and who doesn't, and even buy ISK.

You should be a "journalist" for Fox News.

Yep I have access to forums that in turn, have access to alliance financials; I should most certainly be punished and subject to immediate scorn for aligning myself with an online organization that wants transparency with its members.

I don't give a **** about botters, I don't care who RMT's... Honestly with the amount of effort you plebes put into this tin foil hattery, you could potentially realize there are better things to do then worry about what people are doing in areas of the game your afraid to step foot into.

Your as bad as that old ***** down the street- who sits around all day and counts how many times everyone in the neighborhood pisses, eats and fucks.

You sound mad. You mad?

Confirming all of us are afraid to step into 0.0 and that's why we ***** about game abuse that affects everyone regardless of location.

I was speaking directly to Cipher Jones.

Please lurk before posting, you are a ******* disease GTFO

:please don your tin foil hats before proceeding further:

Is there any proof that "report bot" has been used by CCP as more than a "feel good feature" for legitmate players?
Have there been any bots banned by CCP after having been reported using that tool?

As far as I know, CCP won't release any information along those lines. If they won't do that, then it is impossible to determine if the "report bot" feature is even valid. It may be that CCP put it there with no intention of ever using it beyond it fooling the gullible into thinking it is a legitimate way to get CCP to take action. Outside of CCP stepping in and showing proof, not just a dev post saying "yes we do", the community is left in the dark about it. As a result, speculation, accusation, and treachery will abound.

Might be PL would kick any botting char that got caught and blown. Not because it is ~immoral~, but because he is stupid enough to do it on a main and not on an alt in a renter alliance in some god-forgotten null system.

And on a more serious note, the answer is yes, at least one such alliance exists.

When an alliance's subs reach critical level they're given carte blanche to do whatever they like.

Here, do this.
Join a major alliance.
Read their forums.
Note down all the cheats they suggest you get in on and don't care who knows it.
Watch how those chars aren't banned.

Finally, you too can just stop caring.
Somebody will start botting incursions at some point. Then CCP really will have a dilemma on their hands.

Nice tinfoil hat. Goonswarm was one of the unnamed alliances I mentioned, which I believe (according to my sources) has a "don't report bots" policy. It's not "bots are okay" but it's effectively that anyway. The reason that is put in place is because of idiots who would go through friendly systems reporting every single ratter for botting, which causes unnecessary drama and headaches for everyone. Even worse if those friendly systems are in an ally's space, not the own alliance's space.

I mean, it's understandable, but sort of sad. And that doesn't answer my question either way.

While I in general realy hate Goons becouse of all their highsec ganking bullshit .... this argument I can understand.

Goons are 6000 people. The leaders simply can not know every member. And from history ("we just play to destroy your game and we have fun doing it") there are for sure many butheads in Goons (including some of the leaders).
Hell, I can even imagin a offizial program from Goons called: "DDOS bot pettion section with mass reporting everyone" just for lulz.

But in general all 00/low ally leader know, their member can just PvP if they have some ISK. And with the general "I want PvP and hate all PvE" mentality ... they would detroy their babys (allys) if they use a 100% anti bot policy.

Some are better known for botting (Goons, NC, russen mafia). Some do it more silent (CVA *cry*).

It's pretty simple: any Alliance that takes a strong stand against botting will lose the 0.0 game as a result and no longer be a viable Alliance in Eve. It's counterproductive for them to report on their own ISK making activities, so why would they? No, it's CCP that needs to step up their efforts against bots...but wait, then they'll lose real life sub dollars, so why would they do that?? A never ending problem...too many people are on the take.

Yep I have access to forums that in turn, have access to alliance financials; I should most certainly be punished and subject to immediate scorn for aligning myself with an online organization that wants transparency with its members.

I don't give a **** about botters, I don't care who RMT's... Honestly with the amount of effort you plebes put into this tin foil hattery, you could potentially realize there are better things to do then worry about what people are doing in areas of the game your afraid to step foot into.

Your as bad as that old ***** down the street- who sits around all day and counts how many times everyone in the neighborhood pisses, eats and fucks.

I have more likes than you.

You and Prince Kobol have just explained why there is no "game" in EVE and why there is no rational reason to even attempt playing the sovereignty side of EVE. Until CCP steps up the coding in EVE, the sandbox is nothing more than a cat box filled with catpoop. If you want to play in it, you must get dirty.

This is the reason I have cancelled all accounts and just send isk for PLEX these days to watch the inevitable decline.

While I in general realy hate Goons becouse of all their highsec ganking bullshit .... this argument I can understand.

Goons are 6000 people. The leaders simply can not know every member. And from history ("we just play to destroy your game and we have fun doing it") there are for sure many butheads in Goons (including some of the leaders).
Hell, I can even imagin a offizial program from Goons called: "DDOS bot pettion section with mass reporting everyone" just for lulz.

But in general all 00/low ally leader know, their member can just PvP if they have some ISK. And with the general "I want PvP and hate all PvE" mentality ... they would detroy their babys (allys) if they use a 100% anti bot policy.

Some are better known for botting (Goons, NC, russen mafia). Some do it more silent (CVA *cry*).

There is no way to truly know which alliances, nullsec or otherwise, actually police and kick members for botting. What we do know are which alliances bot and allow their members to do so...

*coughttestgoonswarmcough*

Sorry. I don't want to point them out. I hate finger pointing.

There is no way to truly know which alliances, nullsec or otherwise, actually police and kick members for botting. What we do know are which alliances bot and allow their members to do so...

*coughttestgoonswarmcough*

Sorry. I don't want to point them out. I hate finger pointing.

You mean virtually all of them, by the sounds of this thread?

thats terribad.

I heard that the goon fleets currently murdering white noise consist entierly of bots.

There is no way to truly know which alliances, nullsec or otherwise, actually police and kick members for botting. What we do know are which alliances bot and allow their members to do so...

*coughttestgoonswarmcough*

Sorry. I don't want to point them out. I hate finger pointing.

You don't understand how this works. Goonswarm does not condone botting we just don't believe in our members doing CCP's job for them.

There is no way to truly know which alliances, nullsec or otherwise, actually police and kick members for botting. What we do know are which alliances bot and allow their members to do so...

*coughttestgoonswarmcough*

Sorry. I don't want to point them out. I hate finger pointing.

Actually, the policy is don't shoot bots (because you don't actually know it is a bot, you can only assume). We don't give a flying **** if someone reports a bot.

Actually, I believe there has been cases of some testie reporting every goon (or everyone non-test) flying through fountain, though, and I'm not sure if that was something he told the guys he reported about it, or if he just did it silently, but there were some drama there.

Edit: Ah.

"Don't report the bots guys, make CCP do it."

So, you report every J-walker, speeder, double parking, litterer, and that guy who blew through the stop sign, to the authorities? What is your phone bill like, and how do you find time for EVE and posting?

Not our job, but we can drop a dime if we want to. :effort:

One day the fair players will realise, the cheaters have such an advantage, they can never take on and will ahve never a chance to strike back and have any competition on a simular level.

Do you know any other unfunny memes?

"Don't report the bots guys, make CCP do it."

I tend to save clever articulations to those who can use them.

But that's why I view goons as botters, because even if one isn't, harboring them is just as bad.

Along with coherent grammar?

This thread has been locked due to Lady Harlot wtfbbqpwning absolutely all posters with torrents of pure genius.

we are "harboring botters"

No one needs direct evidence, it's the goon's policy to not report bots, to look the other way. You hide goon bots among your other carebears then you say "It's CCP's job to try and find them"

That is harboring bots.

I understand that goons want to destroy the game, (do they not?) And yes, that's a good way to do that. Congradulations . But what I don't understand is why the CCP employees that are in the goons (... are they not?...) Don't say anything about this.

"Don't report bots" policies only do one thing, encourage botting. The reasons given for such policies as to prevent people from rage-reporting innocent people just doesn't hold water. Firstly, how is the alliance ever going to know who reported who unless CCP is sending that information back to the alliance. Secondly, a "Don't falsely report people as botters" policy doesn't directly encourage botting and is still just as enforceable as the policies as stated.

It's CCP's rule and it's their job to enforce it. This is not a difficult concept.

Suppose you are shopping at a department store at your favorite mall with some friends. The mall has been having a shoplifting problem recently, and has big posters everywhere saying "Shoplifting harms all of us -- please inform a security officer if you see anything suspicious." You then notice that one of your friends just surreptitiously slipped an item into his pocket. The officers did not notice.

Do you just keep quiet to "avoid drama"? It is indeed the officers' jobs to catch this shoplifting, but would you allow it to happen?

That is harboring bots.

How in the great blue **** did your slicer get tackled by 2 supers?

I had an interesting discussion with a friend of mine yesterday about the prevalence of botting and why it is not combated more actively. I am now aware that some alliances have "don't report bots" policies for a multitude of reasons, including avoiding drama (due to trigger-happy white knight types who report everything in sight, or due to actual abuse), padding alliance wallet, and "because it's not our fault CCP can't enforce its EULA".

This has left me rather disappointed, but I'm curious: how widespread is this practice? With all the bot hate everywhere, I would think there exist alliances with "zero tolerance" bot policies -- towards their own members, allies, and enemies. Do they exist or am I just living in cuckoo-land?

(No I am not looking for recruitment; I am simply asking a question)

I like shoplifters. Everybody paying for things makes for long lines and I hate waiting in line.

in -A- it is allowd to kill blue bots. policy is that you have to ask in local in russian and in english if he is a bot. need to give it some time and if he continues without reply, screenshot that he is still ratting after you have asked in local (timestamp needed).

....

For me if CCP is serious about botting then surely they would have a set-up like this by now after all these years.

Their logs show nothing...

But that's why I view goons as botters, because even if one isn't, harboring them is just as bad.

No one needs direct evidence, it's the goon's policy to not report bots, to look the other way. You hide goon bots among your other carebears then you say "It's CCP's job to try and find them"

That is harboring bots.

I understand that goons want to destroy the game, (do they not?) And yes, that's a good way to do that. Congradulations . But what I don't understand is why the CCP employees that are in the goons (... are they not?...) Don't say anything about this.

We want to destroy your game, not the game. The rest is just you being tinfoil-infested.

in -A- it is allowd to kill blue bots. policy is that you have to ask in local in russian and in english if he is a bot. need to give it some time and if he continues without reply, screenshot that he is still ratting after you have asked in local (timestamp needed). most bots auto logoff when getting in armour, screenshot that too for 100% solid case. this rule applies for anyone in -A- alliance or any blue bot that is botting outside their rented space

So why would you have an alliance member who reports all your ratters in the first place? Sounds like a mole to me.