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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Mai Khumm
172.0.0.1
852
|
Posted - 2016.10.20 14:53:31 -
[661] - Quote
You can't... CANNOT put up a POS nor a Structure in Trade hubs or starter systems...
You know this, right?
Whilst every system surrounding Jita it littered with Citadels... |
YeuxVerts Belle
Calibrated Chaos Triumvirate.
8
|
Posted - 2016.10.20 14:56:22 -
[662] - Quote
Mai Khumm wrote:You can't... CANNOT put up a POS nor a Structure in Trade hubs or starter systems...
You know this, right?
Of course i do. That's what makes stations worth it there.
The above message presents my opinions on the topic at hand. If there is a conflict between my views and reality, consider reality to be correct until proven otherwise.
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Mai Khumm
172.0.0.1
852
|
Posted - 2016.10.20 14:59:00 -
[663] - Quote
I edited my post, but CCP doesn't allow Structures and POSs internationally in Jita, but surrounding Jita is littered with Structures...
My last count was Perimeter having 9 Astrahus' and 3-4 Foritzars... |
Skia Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
384
|
Posted - 2016.10.20 15:54:58 -
[664] - Quote
Skia Aumer wrote:You folks go round in circles. - I want to build stuff! - Here is your EC - But 104 rigs too difficult! - Buy XL - But I'm poor! - Use public - But my freedom! - Use stations - Inefficient! - POS is your choice then - Outdated! - Go buy items in the market and deal with it - But I want to build stuff! Not empty quoting.
Mai Khumm, what's your point? |
Mai Khumm
172.0.0.1
852
|
Posted - 2016.10.20 17:54:42 -
[665] - Quote
If you missed it, then my sincerest apologies... |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2488
|
Posted - 2016.10.20 19:38:32 -
[666] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey folks, thanks for all the replies so far. I'm going through everything and I'll be making a big Q&A post with answers at some point soon.
Soon, he said.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3035
|
Posted - 2016.10.20 21:58:15 -
[667] - Quote
Kinizsi wrote:I think you are missing a key point.
Citadel services go offline if they are not fuelled, but the structure still protects all your asset, not just invul timers but with the asset safety mechanism.
If you don't use a service, you don't fuel it. You don't need to fuel the service only if you are building something, not 24/7 regardless of it's usage. So if you are not in building something, you let the fuel run out, or just grab the fuel from the fuel bay, and turn it offline stopping all fuel consumption, but still protecting your stuff. Doesn't work for citadels, because the service module has a startup consumption of 72h worth of fuel. This you have to waste every time you startup the service. CCP wants to prevent exactly what you describe, that people fuel the service only when needed.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Kinizsi
FREE GATES FREE GATES COALITION
11
|
Posted - 2016.10.21 10:44:50 -
[668] - Quote
One more question:
I have an industry job going, meanwhile the EC get reinforced (hopefully the industry job pause after armor reinforcement, when industry module get offline...)
When I see that the EC gona go down casue the enemy is hitting the hull layer on final timer.......
Can I cancel the manufacture job, and this way can I deny any loot drop from my industry job? |
kai oh
Yoakemae F
0
|
Posted - 2016.10.21 11:01:11 -
[669] - Quote
I have simple POS.
Caldari Control Tower Small - Research Laboratory - Design Laboratory - Equipment Assembly Array
To replace this, What should I do?
http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/70592/1/Engineering_Complexes_-_Rigs.jpg I think it is too divided. |
Chani El'zrya
Beyond Frontier Brave Collective
22
|
Posted - 2016.10.21 11:16:58 -
[670] - Quote
Last number i ran allow to conclude this (vide infra) regarding EC versus NPC station. Those calculations concern only what i'm producing and of course i can't disclose it.
Hypothesis 1 = base fuel cost 30 block per h (as suggested by SISI) 10 slot production (solo guy).
ECs wins by roughly 170 M every month. Medium ECs need to stay alive for about 5 months to cover its inevitable loss.
Hypothesis 2 = base fuel cost 60 block per h (intial dev blog) For 10 slot production NPC station remains better in all cases. So a minimum of 20 slot production required (solo guy with two indy characters).
In this case, ECs wins by roughly 340 M every month with 20 slots Medium ECs need to stay alive for about 3 months to cover its inevitable loss. |
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3037
|
Posted - 2016.10.21 14:13:45 -
[671] - Quote
Does your calculation assume round the clock 7 days a week full utilization of the 10 slots? What happens on 50% utilization?
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Chani El'zrya
Beyond Frontier Brave Collective
22
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Posted - 2016.10.21 14:30:50 -
[672] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:Does your calculation assume round the clock 7 days a week full utilization of the 10 slots? What happens on 50% utilization?
Calculation was performed with 2/3 of utilization (i'm casual) but fuel cost was calculated with on-lining services full time. Going to 100% utilization mitigate the issue. |
RainReaper
RRN Assembly INC
78
|
Posted - 2016.10.21 21:41:13 -
[673] - Quote
...after having been on SISI today and seen the new numbers I have to say im immensly disapointed... The aparent new numbers of 5 fuel blocks for the research services have now been chagned to 20. So we are back on to what the dev blog stated. And to top it of, the Raitaru dosent even have enough powergrid/cpu to use the FEV defencive modules it could slot. Meaning that its layout of 1 launcher + 2 extra highs, 2 mids and 1 low cant all be used att the SAME TIME. Meaning that this thing is so IMMENSLY WEAK that you have to be a BIG GROUP in order to even be able to DEFEND A STRUCTURE MEANT FOR A SMALL GROUP. Meaning I might as well go for a FLIPING AZBEL if I wanted to have even a remotely good chance to even think about being able to defend it. but then again that thing is meant for decent sized groups and not SMALL GROUPS. The Raitaru looks cool, but its nothing but a mistake. AND IT HURTS ME IMMENSLY TO SAY THAT! |
Chani El'zrya
Beyond Frontier Brave Collective
22
|
Posted - 2016.10.22 07:52:56 -
[674] - Quote
RainReaper wrote:...after having been on SISI today and seen the new numbers I have to say im immensly disapointed... The aparent new numbers of 5 fuel blocks for the research services have now been chagned to 20. So we are back on to what the dev blog stated. And to top it of, the Raitaru dosent even have enough powergrid/cpu to use the FEV defencive modules it could slot. Meaning that its layout of 1 launcher + 2 extra highs, 2 mids and 1 low cant all be used att the SAME TIME. Meaning that this thing is so IMMENSLY WEAK that you have to be a BIG GROUP in order to even be able to DEFEND A STRUCTURE MEANT FOR A SMALL GROUP. Meaning I might as well go for a FLIPING AZBEL if I wanted to have even a remotely good chance to even think about being able to defend it. but then again that thing is meant for decent sized groups and not SMALL GROUPS. The Raitaru looks cool, but its nothing but a mistake. AND IT HURTS ME IMMENSLY TO SAY THAT!
Well i don't think it was really designed to be defended by small groups. It's like for ships. As soon you press the undock button consider it as already blown. Then you have to take into account the cost of losing one regularly in profit calculations. Now those calculation are even more probabilistic ! If eve was spreedsheet in space, now it's even worse.
Concerning your last update on fuel cost, i'm also sad... |
Erika Mizune
The Soul Society The Methodical Alliance
2361
|
Posted - 2016.10.22 12:01:25 -
[675] - Quote
Are these going to be able to seen on your overview like you can with Citadels or do you have to scan them down like the current pos's?
I'm not vibing on that last image on the devblog where you can physical see a titan being built, giving others intel on what's going on instead of how it is now where you have to actually work to get that intel.
DJ Yumene of Eve Radio | Blog | Sounds of New Eden | Eve Radio | My BPO Quest | Erika For CSM XI
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Mai Khumm
172.0.0.1
853
|
Posted - 2016.10.22 12:05:53 -
[676] - Quote
Erika Mizune wrote:Are these going to be able to seen on your overview like you can with Citadels or do you have to scan them down like the current pos's?
I'm not vibing on that last image on the devblog where you can physical see a titan being built, giving others intel on what's going on instead of how it is now where you have to actually work to get that intel. If they're a Freeport, then they show up on your overview just like Stations. If they're private, they show up in the background just like anomalies... |
Erika Mizune
The Soul Society The Methodical Alliance
2361
|
Posted - 2016.10.22 12:09:12 -
[677] - Quote
Mai Khumm wrote:Erika Mizune wrote:Are these going to be able to seen on your overview like you can with Citadels or do you have to scan them down like the current pos's?
I'm not vibing on that last image on the devblog where you can physical see a titan being built, giving others intel on what's going on instead of how it is now where you have to actually work to get that intel. If they're a Freeport, then they show up on your overview just like Stations. If they're private, they show up in the background just like anomalies...
Alright, thanks! :)
DJ Yumene of Eve Radio | Blog | Sounds of New Eden | Eve Radio | My BPO Quest | Erika For CSM XI
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Mai Khumm
172.0.0.1
853
|
Posted - 2016.10.22 13:34:04 -
[678] - Quote
RainReaper wrote:...after having been on SISI today and seen the new numbers I have to say im immensly disapointed... The aparent new numbers of 5 fuel blocks for the research services have now been chagned to 20. So we are back on to what the dev blog stated. And to top it of, the Raitaru dosent even have enough powergrid/cpu to use the FEV defencive modules it could slot. Meaning that its layout of 1 launcher + 2 extra highs, 2 mids and 1 low cant all be used att the SAME TIME. Meaning that this thing is so IMMENSLY WEAK that you have to be a BIG GROUP in order to even be able to DEFEND A STRUCTURE MEANT FOR A SMALL GROUP. Meaning I might as well go for a FLIPING AZBEL if I wanted to have even a remotely good chance to even think about being able to defend it. but then again that thing is meant for decent sized groups and not SMALL GROUPS. The Raitaru looks cool, but its nothing but a mistake. AND IT HURTS ME IMMENSLY TO SAY THAT! So they took one step forward, then 3 steps back!
The Vulnerability Timers for Citadels and Complexes should be switched based solely on the defensive capabilities of the Structures itself.
Otherwise you'll never see Complexes outside of Highsec and very Deep Nullsec.
The fueling is a little too much. They were perfect for Citadels, but a little much for the Manufacturing ones for Complexes. At the very least, cut fuel usage by 50%!
I could overlook the Rigs in exchange for reduced fueling.... |
Zakarumit CZ
Zakarum Industries Exiliar Syndicate
196
|
Posted - 2016.10.22 18:39:02 -
[679] - Quote
So almost 2 weeks of feedback on one of the biggest industry changes and no dev comment or response...thats really sad.
Current state of engineering complexes is pretty bad - vulnerability windows too long, very few defensive capabilities and little to no benefit over POS/NPC station... |
Nfynity Prime
Nfynity Prime Corp
10
|
Posted - 2016.10.22 19:47:48 -
[680] - Quote
RainReaper wrote:...after having been on SISI today and seen the new numbers I have to say im immensly disapointed... The aparent new numbers of 5 fuel blocks for the research services have now been chagned to 20. So we are back on to what the dev blog stated. And to top it of, the Raitaru dosent even have enough powergrid/cpu to use the FEV defencive modules it could slot. Meaning that its layout of 1 launcher + 2 extra highs, 2 mids and 1 low cant all be used att the SAME TIME. Meaning that this thing is so IMMENSLY WEAK that you have to be a BIG GROUP in order to even be able to DEFEND A STRUCTURE MEANT FOR A SMALL GROUP. Meaning I might as well go for a FLIPING AZBEL if I wanted to have even a remotely good chance to even think about being able to defend it. but then again that thing is meant for decent sized groups and not SMALL GROUPS. The Raitaru looks cool, but its nothing but a mistake. AND IT HURTS ME IMMENSLY TO SAY THAT!
These complexes are completely worthless again to all but the biggest corps. They had it right with the research and invention modules at 5 blocks. Even though the 15 blocks for the manufacturing was still high, it was going in the right direction. They were still nowhere as good as a POS, but at least the fuel costs were more in alignment with a medium POS. Now I guess it's back to the NPC station for everything for a very large percentage of us, since 20 blocks for all modules is insane. Why would I want 3 times the fuel cost for reduced functionality and increased risk and vulnerability? |
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Isler Twy'Lar
Federation Navy 3rd Fleet Wrong Hole.
8
|
Posted - 2016.10.22 20:22:51 -
[681] - Quote
Sexy Cakes wrote:I'm sure what I'm about to type has been stated multiple times through out the process of this structure rework in EVE.
The Medium Engineering Complex will require 9 hours of vulnerability weekly, with 18 hours and 36 hours for the Large and XL Engineering Complexes respectively
... is a stupid mechanic. Give them an extra timer for reinforce or destruction but making something in space invulnerable for all but 9/18/36 hours a week is lame. The most common argument is 'this is the way it worked before technically' and while I agree to some extent with POS's and outposts being easy to change when the timers came out, think of it from a hostile FC standpoint... I want to make a name for myself in my new alliance by going out and reinforcing stuff, picking fights, poking beehives, flying spaceships. With a POS or outpost I can go do that, it's floating in space and I can shoot it to provoke a response. You've made all these structures literally invulnerable for all but a tiny window. It's a giant **** mechanic in a game that used be HTFU or GTFO.
Fine. Take away their invulnerability. But give them back their auto weapon systems. |
Chani El'zrya
Beyond Frontier Brave Collective
22
|
Posted - 2016.10.22 20:35:38 -
[682] - Quote
Nfynity Prime wrote:RainReaper wrote:...after having been on SISI today and seen the new numbers I have to say im immensly disapointed... The aparent new numbers of 5 fuel blocks for the research services have now been chagned to 20. So we are back on to what the dev blog stated. And to top it of, the Raitaru dosent even have enough powergrid/cpu to use the FEV defencive modules it could slot. Meaning that its layout of 1 launcher + 2 extra highs, 2 mids and 1 low cant all be used att the SAME TIME. Meaning that this thing is so IMMENSLY WEAK that you have to be a BIG GROUP in order to even be able to DEFEND A STRUCTURE MEANT FOR A SMALL GROUP. Meaning I might as well go for a FLIPING AZBEL if I wanted to have even a remotely good chance to even think about being able to defend it. but then again that thing is meant for decent sized groups and not SMALL GROUPS. The Raitaru looks cool, but its nothing but a mistake. AND IT HURTS ME IMMENSLY TO SAY THAT! These complexes are completely worthless again to all but the biggest corps. They had it right with the research and invention modules at 5 blocks. Even though the 15 blocks for the manufacturing was still high, it was going in the right direction. They were still nowhere as good as a POS, but at least the fuel costs were more in alignment with a medium POS. Now I guess it's back to the NPC station for everything for a very large percentage of us, since 20 blocks for all modules is insane. Why would I want 3 times the fuel cost for reduced functionality and increased risk and vulnerability?
If it is really the case, i mean "most of us pushed back to station", then i would expect the selling price of end products to rise to reflect those increasing cost. The market may adapt and you would make at the end the same profit.
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Isler Twy'Lar
Federation Navy 3rd Fleet Wrong Hole.
8
|
Posted - 2016.10.22 20:36:48 -
[683] - Quote
Kinizsi wrote:I think you are missing a key point.
Citadel services go offline if they are not fuelled, but the structure still protects all your asset, not just invul timers but with the asset safety mechanism.
If you don't use a service, you don't fuel it. You don't need to fuel the service only if you are building something, not 24/7 regardless of it's usage. So if you are not in building something, you let the fuel run out, or just grab the fuel from the fuel bay, and turn it offline stopping all fuel consumption, but still protecting your stuff.
Btw, I believe the asset safety mechanism is non existent in WH space. Combine that with weak non-auto defenses, they just don't seem to be worth the trouble. |
Bobb Bobbington
Bros Before Holes The Devils' Rejects
350
|
Posted - 2016.10.22 23:09:23 -
[684] - Quote
Also are BPO costs going to be 7b, 52b, and 300b respectively? Those are 10x the numbers cited for producing the complex, but I didn't see any hard numbers in the dev blog
This is a signature.
It has a 25m signature.
No it's not a cosmic signature.
Probably.
Btw my corp's recruiting.
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RainReaper
RRN Assembly INC
81
|
Posted - 2016.10.23 03:33:00 -
[685] - Quote
Hm... So they have now decreased the fuel cost of the 2 research services and the main manufacturing service to 15 fuel blocks every hour it seems. Taking the total down to 45 blocks (33-34) blocks when you use all 3 service slots on the Raitaru. While this is an improvement its defences are still absolute trash, and my old statement about small groups not being able to protect it att all still stands. I still cant even use all of my Raitaru's slots because the powergrid/CPU is just to low. AND because the Raitaru only have 1 low slot I cant even boost my CPU and powergrid in order to accualy use the low slot for the one thing it needs, The Ballistic control system in order to boost its absolute **** damage to be just a little bit less ****. Which is still super **** I will have you know. Which means I might as well jsut leave the low slot empty. Cause i wont put extra isk on that kill mail for no reason. |
RainReaper
RRN Assembly INC
81
|
Posted - 2016.10.23 03:47:27 -
[686] - Quote
RainReaper wrote:Hm... So they have now decreased the fuel cost of the 2 research services and the main manufacturing service to 15 fuel blocks every hour it seems. Taking the total down to 45 blocks (33-34) blocks when you use all 3 service slots on the Raitaru. While this is an improvement its defences are still absolute trash, and my old statement about small groups not being able to protect it att all still stands. I still cant even use all of my Raitaru's slots because the powergrid/CPU is just to low. AND because the Raitaru only have 1 low slot I cant even boost my CPU and powergrid in order to accualy use the low slot for the one thing it needs, The Ballistic control system in order to boost its absolute **** damage to be just a little bit less ****. Which is still super **** I will have you know. Which means I might as well jsut leave the low slot empty. Cause i wont put extra isk on that kill mail for no reason.
Listen guys. A simple fix to the bit I just stated about cpu and powergrid being low is this. Get rid of copying on the research service and put it on the invention service! As it curently stands. In order for me to build everything I want to build., T1/T2 I NEED the research one for... only its copying. wich have nothing to do with the Research of blueprints to do. If you placed copying in the invention service I could free up that one slot on my Raitaru. geting some cpu/powergrid back and freeing up enough of it to online the low slot balistic control system for some extra damage. this way people who jsut want to build can get the 30 blocks(22,5) and focus on that. while people who want a Research Raitaru can just have a Research service. and use that for that. as it currently stands im forced to cripple my structure in order to do any efficient industry.
(PS its currently 05:46 so if i wrote somethign that dosent make sense sry im not awake att this point.) |
Sgt Ocker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1170
|
Posted - 2016.10.23 12:09:32 -
[687] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote:There is no place in New Eden for small groups and individual game play, we are slowly getting forced out.. Yes there is. It's called the NPC station and is still there like it always has been. 1. If you want safety it is there. If you don't want to deal with defense or fuel or specialization of a structure you can do so and still build almost everything in the game just as you did before. 2. The only thing that is changing is some risk vs. reward is being restored to the game. Now industrialists who take the risk to deploy a vulnerable structure and/or form groups will benefit from these efficiencies. These changes actually put some decisions of how to do industry back into the game, and open whole new areas of game play. They make grouping up and direct disruption of your rivals valid strategies once more, unlike the invulnerable, solo and predictable exercise in spreadsheet making current industry has degenerated into. 3. But if you like building things, you still can as a solo industrialist. You may have to settle for lower profit than those that organize and take risks, but that is how this game is suppose to work. Besides, why do you need all those profits if you never are putting anything at risk? 4. Ultimately we are all content for each other in this game. If you are not willing to offer yourself up as content, you should be penalized with lower rewards. This is how Eve always was suppose to work. I understand some people don't like change, but this fix has been long overdue. 5. This new age of structures is going to continue to change the face of New Eden, but both I, and CCP it seems, feel these changes are in the best long-term interests of the game. I suggest you just try to forget what you know about industry and approach the new mechanics from the perspective of how you can best profit from them, not pining for the past. It's going to be a transition for everyone (including your rivals), and times of upheaval usually have the best opportunity for profit. You know something Pedro - I couldn't give 2 shites what you think "is best for the game", your a professional forum troll who just loves to spout off on topics he has no understanding of, oh and you do presume to know "everything" so often it really has become boring.
The ONLY reason I am bothered responding to your post is to point out just how wrong your presumptions are.
1. I never said I wanted safety and so should not be forced to take lower profits because CCP is "balancing" me out of my play style. I am simply asking for a level playing field similar to what I have now, 18 hours per week is a part time job, which CCP is asking me to pay to work at. I'd be happy to build an EC for my corp - If it didn't require giving up more time to Eve than I already do, It wasn't going to cost me at least 75% more to run said structure than it does to run my current structures. I mean, you really should learn a little about what it is your saying, before making yourself look so foolish.
2. You honestly don't have a clue what your talking about - Just stop now before you completely humiliate yourself (your reputation is bad enough as it is, troll)
3. See again your wrong - Eve is meant to be a sandbox, where everyone has the opportunity to undertake play styles as they choose - CCP removing the ability for solo and small groups to participate is all down to bad management and design. If by some slim chance you are right then CCP needs to stop advertising Eve Online as a single shard Sandbox Game and start advertising it as a single shard game, where your opportunities are only limited by the size of the group you choose to join.
4. Yes we are - AND isn't it a shame Devs are taking such an active part in directing and limiting who, when, where and how we interact with each other.
5. You just don't understand at all - I'm not pining for the past, I've been waiting a long time for Devs to do something about pos's but this is just not balanced or even close to what devs first started out with. It is totally biased against anyone who isn't part of a medium or large group.
CCP's announcement for Citadels Quote:Citadels: Cities built in the Heavens What a load of rubbish, lies, half truth's that was. I'm sorry but Devs just don't get it.. And sadly they have shown quite convincingly, they don't care what players say or expect from Dev teams.
If I missed responding to anything from your inaccurate, laughable, joke filled post, do let me know I'd be happy to address it for you...
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
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RainReaper
RRN Assembly INC
82
|
Posted - 2016.10.23 12:34:51 -
[688] - Quote
Fuel on the services are back to 20 blocks every hour... never mind then. |
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
2861
|
Posted - 2016.10.23 14:46:57 -
[689] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:You know something Pedro - I couldn't give 2 shites what you think "is best for the game", your a professional forum troll who just loves to spout off on topics he has no understanding of, oh and you do presume to know "everything" so often it really has become boring. Ah, personal insults. The last refuge of the intellectually bankrupt.
The rest of your post is straight-out moaning about how "unfair" it is that you are losing your invulnerable highsec industrial POSes. Here's the thing: no one cares what you think. CCP is correcting a mistake of the past with these new structures and you can't do anything about it (other than to continue to impotently whine on the forums). You will shortly have a choice. Either you play by the new rules, or you go away. CCP I am sure wants you to stay, but not at the cost of letting you opt out of the sandbox game play they are developing. They have provided several ways to build stuff, at various levels of risk, and you will now have to choose the one of those that suits you, or if you prefer, take your business to another game more suited to your desires.
I have no sympathy for your tears over the fact that you no longer can make stuff by yourself, and with no assets as risk, as efficiently as large groups who invest time and assets in building and defending an industrial operation. You will still be able to build everything that you could before (and in complete safety if you want), only you'll pay a tiny bit more than large groups who are offering themselves up as a target. Boo hoo.
And you clearly care despite your protestations, otherwise you wouldn't bother personally attacking me and "refuting" my points by just waving your arms around and shouting loudly that they are wrong. If you have a point other than the false claim that "sandbox means I should be able to do whatever I want" as to why CCP should leave invulnerable, all-powerful industry structures in the game, I am eager to hear it. Saying that you "don't care" doesn't magically make it so.
You should have to defend your in-space structures. I am not even sure most of the dyed-in-the-wool carebears share your radical view you should be able to enjoy industrial structures but not have to defend them or pay for them. Such an invulnerable structure really has no place in a competitive PvP sandbox game like Eve Online where the developers are actively trying to avoid "directing and limiting who, when, where and how we interact with each other" by making us all vulnerable to each other all the time.
The 8 Golden Rules of Eve
Why Do They Gank?
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RainReaper
RRN Assembly INC
82
|
Posted - 2016.10.23 16:45:30 -
[690] - Quote
And its back to 15 blocks for the 2 research services and the main manufacturing servi- you know what im just gonna wait now. Cause they arent sure themselves what they are doing currently with this I belive. |
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