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Elgar Lightfoot Lightfoot Industries	Posted - 2007.03.24 12:38:00 - [91] Try saying it doesn't prevent us doing things or force us to do things while you live in the Verge Vendor region. Everyshore did fare far better than many other regions; eight Belts, to Verge Vendors Zero, and 5 jumps from our home base equals 10 to our POS, makes it a 'bit' easier than 16. We still need a fix for Verge Vendor though.
Cosmos Elf	Posted - 2007.03.24 12:41:00 - [92] Originally by: Elgar Lightfoot <edit> OOOOOOHHHHHHH NOOOOOOOOOEEEEEES!!!! My AFK ice macro days are over. Whatever will I do? </edit> --
Elgar Lightfoot Lightfoot Industries	Posted - 2007.03.24 12:50:00 - [93] Originally by: Cosmos Elf Originally by: Elgar Lightfoot <edit> OOOOOOHHHHHHH NOOOOOOOOOEEEEEES!!!! My AFK ice macro days are over. Whatever will I do? </edit> Don't be an idiot. If anyone wanted to AFK mine ice you can easily tank rats in as low as 0.6 with basic skills in a Mackinaw. None of this has anything to do with being AFK. You only make yourself look an ass by posting asinine comments like that.
Eamon Wouk	Posted - 2007.03.24 13:56:00 - [94] What are your goals? Or, in other words, why would an older player mine ice in Empire? If you like mining ice as a profession, go where the ice is. If you need ice to run your POS, why in the world would you mine it yourself? There are far more profitable professions than ice mining, including mining just about anything else, running missions, manufacturing, and trading. Earn your ISK then buy more ice than you could have mined in the same time. Even if you insist on mining your own ice, how hard is it to pop over to an ice field (even if it is 10-20 jumps) and make 1 trip per week with the refined ice products in an industrial? If you used a freighter it would be even easier. I understand you had a routine you were comfortable with, but in Eve, things change. Doesn't the fact that you are not getting much sympathy here, even from other POS operators, tell you something?
Damon Ra Caldari	Posted - 2007.03.24 15:14:00 - [95] Originally by: Eamon Wouk Even if you insist on mining your own ice, how hard is it to pop over to an ice field (even if it is 10-20 jumps) and make 1 trip per week with the refined ice products in an industrial? If you used a freighter it would be even easier. I understand you had a routine you were comfortable with, but in Eve, things change. Why don't you go try that for about a week and get back to us. Be sure to do it without a freighter the first few days so you can really immerse yourself in the "experience". (FYI, a weeks worth of refined goods won't fit in an industrial, not even close.) Maybe if CCP were to be completely transparent about why they did this there would be less conflict over the matter. Perhaps they don't want to admit that they only did it as a part of the "need for speed" initiative. I mean, when you cannot optimize your code, you start nerfing "big" things right? Change is inevitable. Changes like this one that don't seem to have an appearant reason or explanation can be easily construed by those directly affected as being penalized. Current Tranquility status: SELECT production_code FROM SISI WHERE testers = 'players' AND testers <> 'ccp_staff' AND testing_duration <> 'sufficient';
Damon Ra Caldari	Posted - 2007.03.24 15:17:00 - [96] Edited by: Damon Ra on 24/03/2007 15:13:45 Originally by: Agent Lemming There was a time when there wasn't any ice to mine at all, and people still managed to play the game True, and back then there were no POS, dreads and carriers that needed the ice for fuel. So your point is what exactly? Maybe CCP should just remove all the stuff that needs ice to operate too.. Current Tranquility status: SELECT production_code FROM SISI WHERE testers = 'players' AND testers <> 'ccp_staff' AND testing_duration <> 'sufficient';
Elgar Lightfoot Lightfoot Industries	Posted - 2007.03.24 18:43:00 - [97] Edited by: Elgar Lightfoot on 24/03/2007 18:40:45 Eamon, why would you ask the question relating to the age of my character mining Ice in empire? You seem to be implying that once you are of a certain age you must move to 0.0. I remain in Empire space because that's where I enjoy it. I have zero interest in 0.0. I have zero interest in non-consensual PVP. I have zero interest in fleet warfare. Just like you seem to have zero interest in Ice mining. You play how you enjoy and I do likewise. I play the game to have fun. It doesn't matter to me how I get that fun, but I do enjoy being totally self sufficient. That includes mining my own Ice, manufacturing my own ships and fittings, and being totally non dependant upon others. I have always been a leader, never a follower (in every game I play). I'm in no race with anyone, and I'm in no hurry to get anywhere. But I do demand enjoyment from the time I spend in game. Spending hours hauling ice/products half way across the galaxy is not fun for me. I enjoy mining. I enjoy manufacturing. I enjoy running missions. I even enjoy being at war (although I've never declared war, only been wardec'd). CCP want players to spread out, then take steps to force players in the opposite direction by driving all of the Ice miners into half a dozen systems which still have Ice. As for the amount of support I'm seeing. I'm seeing masses. Far more than I've seen on any topic recently.
Arushia Nova Labs Empire Research	Posted - 2007.03.24 19:18:00 - [98] Originally by: Elgar Lightfoot Originally by: Arushia True, but once your barge is in the same system as the ice, you'll never need to move it again. And why do you feel you need a corp office in the same system as the ice? The problem here is not the removal of ice fields, but your total inflexibility. And for the record: I run a POS in Essence (see link in my sig), I mine the ice for it myself, I had no trouble adapting to this. It's not so bad for myself as I have dedicated Ice mining mackinaws for my characters, but others in the corp multi task with their Retrievers and Covetors. It would require them to refit, fly out 16 jumps, mine Ice, then fly back and refit after. Add to that moving the Haulers out there and the multitude of 16 jump trips to move all the Ice products back. Then on top of that we have to send our mission runners out there to do their work at the station we are going to be refining at. Moving an Ice business is not so easy. Mining is simple, Ice is much harder. 16 jumps is just not feasable. Consider investing in a dedicated ice barge for each pilot, and a freighter to haul the stuff once per week? Empire Research and Nova Labs
Eamon Wouk	Posted - 2007.03.24 19:32:00 - [99] Originally by: Elgar Lightfoot Edited by: Elgar Lightfoot on 24/03/2007 18:40:45 Eamon, why would you ask the question relating to the age of my character mining Ice in empire? You seem to be implying that once you are of a certain age you must move to 0.0. I remain in Empire space because that's where I enjoy it. I have zero interest in 0.0. I have zero interest in non-consensual PVP. I have zero interest in fleet warfare. Just like you seem to have zero interest in Ice mining. You play how you enjoy and I do likewise. I've never been to 0.0 myself, and have the same dislikes as you. I also don't have any intention of telling anyone how to have fun. I was just suggesting that an older player has more ways of making isk, and that many of those ways are more profitable than mining ice. For example, you could use the money earned doing missions to buy ice and pay someone to haul it for you. On the other hand, if you enjoy ice mining (it does have a semi-afk appeal to it) then try to make the best of the situation. It would have been nice if they just moved the high sec ice belts to 0.5 systems, but they didn't. That will most likely cause ice products to go up in price. Bad for me, but good for those who mine.
Quartex Gallente Octavian Vanguard RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.24 19:49:00 - [100] Edited by: Quartex on 24/03/2007 19:48:18
Kruugore Minmatar Vigilant Justice	Posted - 2007.03.24 19:59:00 - [101] Originally by: Elgar Lightfoot Originally by: Harm Gently Originally by: Elgar Lightfoot I don't mine in low sec as I can't stand all the wannabe pirate/griefers in low sec. Ok...wait...so this means you've got a definition of what a real pirate/griefer is? Yes a TRUE pirate is one with some honor. Someone that doesn't steal from a can to get an easy kill on another player who stands no chance of retaliating. Someone who kills for profit, not just to grief. But that discussion is not for this thread. you need a history lesson. EVE Vault, A Great Community
Renosha Argaron Caldari The Celestial Free Miner's	Posted - 2007.03.25 03:46:00 - [102] Well this is not just about ice i dont think, its the fact people who are based in verge vendor are being scre*ed over, I myself dont need ice ...but would still like to have the option of mining it if needed in my region as it was originaly there in the first place. Now that the option has been removed im wondering what will be next?....maybe we dont need omber either?....maybe scordite is next for the chop?. my point being....most miners settle in regions for a reason, and most of the time the reason will be what the surrounding areas contain in the way of ore's and so on, to remove a vital component in this process is just absurd beyond reason, No reason has yet been given for CCP's actions and as a player and a miner i would for one love to know why they took the step and what prompted it? As for the people who say "Just move" i myself am a bit of a homebody when it comes to what area i settle in...as well as making friends with other corps in my area and building a network of connections and friends....i dont want to move no more than anyone else does...and to those people i say you are lucky your not effected by these changes YET!!!! and i do stress the word YET!....if they can just do this to us good hard working folk in verge vendor.....you can bet your bottom doller some of you will be next to feel there wrath of CCP's ice chopper.....lol and my final point about the 0.0 and low sec debate, these days your lucky if you can make it threw a 0.4 gate without being gatecamped so for me....moving below 0.4 aint an option.....i choose to be a miner....i choose to stay in carebear country.....this game is not just about pvp...its about choice. Regards Renosha
RaWBLooD	Posted - 2007.03.25 05:20:00 - [103] Originally by: Kruugore Originally by: Elgar Lightfoot Originally by: Harm Gently Originally by: Elgar Lightfoot I don't mine in low sec as I can't stand all the wannabe pirate/griefers in low sec. Ok...wait...so this means you've got a definition of what a real pirate/griefer is? Yes a TRUE pirate is one with some honor. Someone that doesn't steal from a can to get an easy kill on another player who stands no chance of retaliating. Someone who kills for profit, not just to grief. But that discussion is not for this thread. you need a history lesson. hes half right, pirates steal / life for their own wealth, they wont screw you over unless it benefits them. miners-you can: switch, rob, wardec, nerf, scam them, buy below market, pirate them on their way to sell. mining < trading, ratting, manufacturing from market bought minerals,they still wont go away
James Duar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.03.25 06:19:00 - [104] I think the major important point being made here is, it's not so much what CCP have done, it's the complete lack of explanation of why they did it in the greater scheme of things. People can adapt if they see what's coming, not really if stuff just happens. CCP should be telling the playerbase what their end-point goal with the ice belt removals in Empire is so people can just save themselves the hassle and elect to get out/into some business sooner rather then later.
Eva Reedy	Posted - 2007.11.20 23:02:00 - [105] Well imho there are already way too many POS'S littering high sec..so if it means moving ice to low sec..i say hooray to that.
Snake Doctor MacroIntel United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2007.11.20 23:56:00 - [106] I can has more necro plz? Originally by: Paulo Damarr Join the worlds largest single server and fastest growing community of Unofficial and illegitimate EULA police! Join Macrointel!
Lo Lightshard	Posted - 2007.11.21 04:55:00 - [107] Why object to nonconsensual PvP in lowsec but not to being war-deced in highsec? Are there five highsec belts in VV or none? I am also interested in an official reason for this change. Cheers,
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.11.21 04:59:00 - [108] Originally by: Lo Lightshard Why object to nonconsensual PvP in lowsec but not to being war-deced in highsec? Are there five highsec belts in VV or none? I am also interested in an official reason for this change. Cheers, because you touch your necro at night Originally by: Cecil Montague They should change that warning on entering low sec to: "Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."

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