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Majin82
Caldari g guild
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Posted - 2007.03.23 22:21:00 -
[61]
The only thing that needs boosting for Caldari is our Drone Bay sizes! By using EW Drones you can Solo PVP, but as soon as the drones are done, so is your PVP Solo. The only other thing that needs attention is the fact that Nos rules PVP and we lack the PG to fit Nos, T2 Launcher and T2 Tank. So you have to pick 2 of the 3.
Raven 6 x T2 Siege Launchers 2 x Heavy Dimin Nos
1 x EM T2 1 x Heat T2 2 x Invul. T2 1 x X-Large Booster C5-L 1 x 20km Scram
1 x RCU T2 1 x CO-PRO T2 2 x PDS T2 1 x BCU T2
1 x TP Drone 2 x SD Drone 2 x TD Drone
3 x CCC Rig
This setup can PVP, but do you see the problem? This set is several hundred Million ISK, just to be able to do something every other Race can do better using T1 gear. Slight boost to CPU / PG and Drone bay is all that is needed to make the Raven good in PVP. ------------------------------------- The difference between a Pirate and an Anti-Pirate is that an Anti-Pirate fights ships fitted with guns!
Passive Drake For The Win |
welsh wizard
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.03.23 22:27:00 -
[62]
Theres a few problem ships but the balance is better than it was 6 months ago.
The Ferox, Eagle, Vulture and Moa are all pretty poor. They don't do enough damage given their price tags. The Rokh aint a bad turret ship but thats because it is actually a dedicated turret ship with no less than 8 slots assigned to the task.
ECM is the biggest problem currently. It's weak and isn't exciting, theres really little point in flying the ECM ships these days because something else will be of more use. The Caldari recons are so boring, they have one ability when the other races have two and are good combat ships to boot. In my opinion ECM ships now need a second ability or bonus because since the nerf they're not really able to tank (lows used for ECM damage mods) and they definitely can't do any damage.
I think they should be given big drone bays or a built in shield extension or something. More staying would be an attractive bonus as they still tend to be primary in any engagement.
As for "you need bugger all skillpoints in missiles", codswallop. You might need bugger all sp in missiles to fry some Guristas in your Raven but to pvp at anywhere near the level of the other races you need some serious points dedicated. Incidentally there are more skillpoints in the missile tree aswell. :P
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.03.23 22:43:00 -
[63]
The Moa, Eagle, and Vulture are fine. The ferox might need another turret, but that is a problem with all the teir 1 battlecruisers except the brutix rather than the ferox as balanced against the prophecy and cyclone.
ECM is fine, and really not "weak" any way you put it. It is just no longer an "i-win".
And as for the "there are more skillpoints in missiles codswallop. Yes, but you dont need any of them to specialize. That or i need to start adding up the skill costs of tech 2 large blasters when computing the needs of my beam harbinger.
With Caldari you can say "I want tech 2 x" and go and get it, with everyone else you have "I want tech 2 x, but first i have to get tech 2 a, b, and c"
---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
Fluffernator
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Posted - 2007.03.23 23:17:00 -
[64]
nah, im a caldari turret user, rare i know becuase its the ****tiest type of ship youc an fly in game. I have to train tech 1 smalls, then mediums then large just the same as you do.
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welsh wizard
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.03.23 23:42:00 -
[65]
Edited by: welsh wizard on 23/03/2007 23:40:14
Originally by: Goumindong ECM is fine, and really not "weak" any way you put it. It is just no longer an "i-win".
So "fine" that 5 ships are completely dedicated to it and do little else? Is it anymore powerful than dampening? No I don't think it is. Are the Falcon and the Rook anywhere near as useful as the other recons? No, they're not (although this is subject to opinion of course). Is the Scorpion as useful or as fun to fly as the other tier 1 bs? More importantly is it as 'good' as the other tier 1 bs? No it isn't.
Quote: And as for the "there are more skillpoints in missiles codswallop. Yes, but you dont need any of them to specialize. That or i need to start adding up the skill costs of tech 2 large blasters when computing the needs of my beam harbinger.
With Caldari you can say "I want tech 2 x" and go and get it, with everyone else you have "I want tech 2 x, but first i have to get tech 2 a, b, and c"
First of all I'm completely maxed in hybrids other than traj analysis V and the specs. I prefer missile ships because they were my first but I know precisely what its like to train for ages to use a full weapons set.
Second of all you're forgetting that once you've trained that full weapon set every ship is open to you. You can use any of them and their weapons systems, you can even cross races to an extent. Just train heavy missiles and you're stuck with Caldari and can only fly a Cerberus, Caracal or a Drake. You still can't fly a Raven, Crow or whatever else so tbh that line of argument is a waste of everyones time.
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Ogul
Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Prime Orbital Systems
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Posted - 2007.03.24 00:43:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Goumindong
shield/armor stuff
You are right, I forgot the skill that improves efficiency. Without it the shield tank's cap efficiency is only 2% better than the armor tank.
Still, a t2 1600 plate is 4200 armor, while a t2 large shield extender is 26xx. And cap rechargers/boosters are not really viable for a shield tank.
Originally by: Goumindong
There are no FoF assault/torp/rockets. Whop-de-do. There are no fof guns at all
i think you should test the FOF/damp issue, i am almost positive it was changed.
I just wanted to point out that missiles can by no means ignore ECM and damping. And while tracking disruptors do not work, speed does. Not only angular velocity, but velocity in any direction.
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Trisae
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Posted - 2007.03.24 00:55:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Trisae on 24/03/2007 00:53:12 Boost some caldari gunships (ferox, merlin, moa, vulture (vulture is range bugged afaik)).
Reduce fitting of HAMs and perhaps increase damage or range slightly.
Then it's fine.
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Fluffernator
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Posted - 2007.03.24 01:05:00 -
[68]
I dunno, the way I see it, drone boats shouldnt get as many high slots as caldari missle and rail boats imo. Either that, or caldari boats should get as big of a drone bay, just unbonused. That way each ship has equal capabilities cause the way it is now... vexor, 4 high slots, 125m3 drone bay.... caracal 5 high slots... 10m3 drone bay... does that seem balanced to anyone? Maybe vexor shoudl have 2 high slots for 2 nos or guns, that would be equal. Caracal gets 2 drones, vexor gets two guns.. That is very fair.
After thinking this over all day I have decided to train gallante. I have flown caldari for a year and gallante will be the easiest transition for me. If ccp ever fixes the bugs, and the horrible unbalanced caldari race, I will return to caldari. As of right now, I am going to train the race that can actually compete in pvp.
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Lictose
Gallente Zion.
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Posted - 2007.03.24 01:58:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Humpalot
Originally by: Shania Eria -The other races all get tackling ability!
Whole thing is a troll so why bother but just had to point out that one. Ever see the midslots on Amarr ships? I keep thinking my Crusader should be able to tackle...haven't figured out how yet.
MWD/AB Scram
Originally by: CCP Sharkbait we are screwed
Startup EST : 13:30
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Tista
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Posted - 2007.03.24 02:33:00 -
[70]
people say caldari is easy to train for cus missiles dont take long.. but if you look we use turrets to which means we need to train both missiles and turrets + 10 sheild skills + missiles + drone skills... and our ships are still crap.
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Tista
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Posted - 2007.03.24 02:35:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Goumindong The Moa, Eagle, and Vulture are fine.
you sir.. are a fool and an ignorant one.
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TxShad0w
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Posted - 2007.03.24 02:57:00 -
[72]
In reply to the OP: No.
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VanNostrum
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Posted - 2007.03.24 03:19:00 -
[73]
non
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Nim9i5
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Posted - 2007.03.24 05:09:00 -
[74]
while the raven can mount 8 weapons. all other ships can use drones, and will get 13 high slots in comparison to the ravens 8! ITS SO BAD THAT GALLENTE CAN OUT DPS WITH THEIR DOMI, EVEN WITH NOS'S IN HIGH SLOTS. Torpedos suck and are slow; but at least let them out damage the drones... they cant even do that. Let alone the fact that other ships can outdamage with just their but also they can mount nos or guns. Ammar is not so great either. Caldari tank sucks also, its a insta pop bs.
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bundy bear
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Posted - 2007.03.24 05:28:00 -
[75]
Amarr are the ones that need a boost.
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Nim9i5
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Posted - 2007.03.24 05:30:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Nim9i5 on 24/03/2007 05:26:54 at least lasers are insta damage, and an armor tank :P
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.03.24 06:22:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Tista Edited by: Tista on 24/03/2007 02:35:12
Originally by: Goumindong The Moa, Eagle, and Vulture are fine.
you sir.. are a fool and an ignorant one.
each ship needs another turret slot to be viable for pvp.
as for your "so does the brutix" comment.. we have 5 turrets.. you have 7.. we have crap cap.. you dont.. we cant kill HACs.. you can.
I made no "so does the brutix" comment. I said that the teir 1 battlecruisers are balanced with the exception of the brutix or the brutix is balanced and all the others are unbalanced.
And yes, the Moa, Eagle, and Vulture are fine. The Vulture is the second best Fleet Command ship, the Moa is the best fleet cruiser and the Eagle is just nasty.
Fly them in groups[like the ferox] and use their bonuses
Originally by: Ogul
I just wanted to point out that missiles can by no means ignore ECM and damping. And while tracking disruptors do not work, speed does. Not only angular velocity, but velocity in any direction.
Yes, but no one burns[except idiots] right at any ship except missile ships.
And the most important part.
Turrets will stop damaging a target long, long before missiles will with relation to speed ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
Splendix
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Posted - 2007.03.24 10:49:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Nim9i5 ITS SO BAD THAT GALLENTE CAN OUT DPS WITH THEIR DOMI, EVEN WITH NOS'S IN HIGH SLOTS.
qft
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smallgreenblur
Minmatar Wreckless Abandon
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Posted - 2007.03.24 10:53:00 -
[79]
Originally by: smallgreenblur Ok ok everybody please stand back and read the signs:
'DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS'
Right, carry on.
sgb
Quoting myself here again.
sgb
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welsh wizard
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.03.24 11:04:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Goumindong Turrets will stop damaging a target long, long before missiles will with relation to speed
In what respect? Hit's for under 10 damage? You don't have a clue do you?
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Ogul
Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Prime Orbital Systems
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Posted - 2007.03.24 11:31:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Ogul on 24/03/2007 11:28:38
Originally by: Goumindong
Yes, but no one burns[except idiots] right at any ship except missile ships.
And the most important part.
Turrets will stop damaging a target long, long before missiles will with relation to speed
The difference is that you can only orbit a single ship faster than its guns can track. MWD speed will however reduce the damage of every single missile boat on the same grid.
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Dragy
Caldari The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.03.24 12:12:00 -
[82]
I'd like caldari to be able to solo, like in a way that amarr do, to be able to put some ew modules and not hurt the tank so much. In modern pvp disruptor is nothing ... is you're in missile ship you think that it'll do ... but the target can just run out of your scrambling range and bye bye.
The main problem (for me) is that caldari ships are only for support ... they play their role perfect, but should have some solo ships also, and not only the crow
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mamolian
Vortex. Maelstrom Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.24 12:13:00 -
[83]
Boost caldari??
Just ******* delete this race :p
-------------------------------
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.03.24 16:08:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Ogul Edited by: Ogul on 24/03/2007 11:28:38
Originally by: Goumindong
Yes, but no one burns[except idiots] right at any ship except missile ships.
And the most important part.
Turrets will stop damaging a target long, long before missiles will with relation to speed
The difference is that you can only orbit a single ship faster than its guns can track. MWD speed will however reduce the damage of every single missile boat on the same grid.
This is false. Guns have optimal ranges. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
Dregann
Amarr Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce
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Posted - 2007.03.24 18:37:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Commander Morgoth Caldari don't need a boost.
QTF
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Ogul
Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Prime Orbital Systems
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Posted - 2007.03.25 13:33:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Ogul
The difference is that you can only orbit a single ship faster than its guns can track. MWD speed will however reduce the damage of every single missile boat on the same grid.
This is false.
Care to share that macro with us that keeps your angular velocity high enough in respect to every ship in an enemy gang?
Originally by: Goumindong
Guns have optimal ranges.
True. And Amarr ships have shields.
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Eva Katrin
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Posted - 2007.03.25 13:38:00 -
[87]
Edited by: Eva Katrin on 25/03/2007 13:37:56 **** that, boost Civire. We want to be recognized as our own empire damnit. We're resetting our standings and taking The Citadel and Pure Blind. Contact our diplomat to have standings set. Oh, and our ships will pwn when CCP makes them for us.
P.S. We're taking all the Achura women with us so the men have to settle for those Deteis spinsters.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.03.25 13:42:00 -
[88]
Edited by: Goumindong on 25/03/2007 13:38:52
Originally by: Ogul
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Ogul
The difference is that you can only orbit a single ship faster than its guns can track. MWD speed will however reduce the damage of every single missile boat on the same grid.
This is false.
Care to share that macro with us that keeps your angular velocity high enough in respect to every ship in an enemy gang?
Originally by: Goumindong
Guns have optimal ranges.
True. And Amarr ships have shields.
No need. Plot the low transversal spots on a 3D graph for a 10km+ orbit on around a set point. Difficult to describe, but easy to visualize, once you know what you are looking for, but ill give it a shot.
It exists around the plane of the orbit for a shor amount of time twice in each orbit and extends outwards in a tight conical shape from there[if viewed as a cross section of the plane]. It shouldnt be difficult to reduce the number of ships within that area to a number that is low enough that the chance of gun activation during the two moments of low transversal on that plane are at acceptable levels. If the ships in that area can be restricted to battleships the liklyhood that you will be hit is miniscule. Factor in gun optimal range and tracking and any ship needs to be in a narrow section of space and firing at the right time to deal damage.
You are much more vulernable to NOS and webs than guns. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
Copine Callmeknau
The Splinter Syndicate SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.25 14:36:00 -
[89]
If, as you say, shield tanking caldari ships isn't worth it and armour tanks are better, you aren't sacrificing your tank one bit by fitting tackling gear.
-----
Originally by: Uncle Chop Chop Harden the **** up
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2007.03.25 16:14:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Valandril Its funny how ppl yell for boost without thinking
Lets look at caldari flag ship - raven.
6 med slots - shield booster, boost amp, 3 hardeners, 20km scrambler ? Hell if u wanna more tackling u need to sacrifice 1 tank slot. BUT same do armor tanking, but they sacrifice tank for damage while you got 5 low slots - 3bcus 2 whatever ?
Now try to fit 3 damagemods + armor tank at the same time :)
And instead of whining just train other race, caldari are awesome missioners and thats good enought.
And how are you going to get them into range and keep them there? Ask nicely?
Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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