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JPC2501
Phalanx Armament
0
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Posted - 2016.10.25 18:49:38 -
[1] - Quote
Hi IGÇÖve been away for a few years and just recently returned. IGÇÖm wondering how the game has evolved pertaining towards high-sec ganking.
I just got killed in a Tayra transport. I was not AKF, I was manually jumping and was popped pretty much instantly. The cargo wasnGÇÖt even that valuable, about 150mil.
Is there anyway to defend against this?
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Bing Bangboom
DAMAG Safety Commission
561
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Posted - 2016.10.25 18:53:46 -
[2] - Quote
JPC2501 wrote: Hi IGÇÖve been away for a few years and just recently returned. IGÇÖm wondering how the game has evolved pertaining towards high-sec ganking.
I just got killed in a Tayra transport. I was not AKF, I was manually jumping and was popped pretty much instantly. The cargo wasnGÇÖt even that valuable, about 150mil.
Is there anyway to defend against this?
www.minerbumping.com
IB4L
Highsec is worth fighting for.
By choosing to mine in New Order systems, highsec miners have agreed to follow the New Halaima Code of Conduct.-á www.minerbumping.com
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Paranoid Loyd
9740
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Posted - 2016.10.25 18:54:06 -
[3] - Quote
Yes, tank your ship properly.
"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix
Fix the Prospect!
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Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
381
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Posted - 2016.10.25 18:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
JPC2501 wrote: Hi IGÇÖve been away for a few years and just recently returned. IGÇÖm wondering how the game has evolved pertaining towards high-sec ganking.
I just got killed in a Tayra transport. I was not AKF, I was manually jumping and was popped pretty much instantly. The cargo wasnGÇÖt even that valuable, about 150mil.
Is there anyway to defend against this?
Escorts, scouts, proper use of contacts, pay someone else to transport, use different routes, use the right ship for the job, and tank that ship properly. NONE of these alone is the magic pill to avoid ganking. Used properly together, you have a 99% chance to avoid a random gank.
War, being on someone's KOS list, and game glitches mess that metric up a bit.
The ganking is pretty much the same, but I'm sure some of the pirates will be here to spread their tales soon enough.
--Gadget
Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2535
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Posted - 2016.10.25 19:00:36 -
[5] - Quote
JPC2501 wrote: Hi IGÇÖve been away for a few years and just recently returned. IGÇÖm wondering how the game has evolved pertaining towards high-sec ganking.
I just got killed in a Tayra transport. I was not AKF, I was manually jumping and was popped pretty much instantly. The cargo wasnGÇÖt even that valuable, about 150mil.
Is there anyway to defend against this?
Assuming I'm looking at the right killmail:
Your tank was pretty bad, even for a Tayra. Haulers these days have some slightly more specialized roles, depending on race, but everyone has at least a smaller (cargo wise), tankier, generally more mobile one, and a bigger (cargo), slower, paper-thin one. The Tayra is the latter for Caldari while the Badger is the former.
While that isn't a LOT of cargo, it's more than enough to offset the firepower needed to take out your Tayra, so it's *enough* cargo value to make it worthwhile. The tankier the ship, the higher the threshold before it's worth it.
There are also some tricks you can use, particularly in gank-prone areas, such as using a cloak and MWD to perform your alignment cloaked.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Lasisha Mishi
Caldari Strike Witches
71
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Posted - 2016.10.25 19:19:26 -
[6] - Quote
get to warp as fast as possible
don't carry more than your ship is worth
right now, the "meta" of high sec gank is FAST lock on speed(as in 2 secounds), and then about 1k dps per ship.
0.5 and 0.6 systems are extremely easy to get ganked in.
0.7 is what 0.5 was 3 years ago. (in terms of how likely you are to be ganked)
if you can covert ops cloak. do it.
if you can use the microwarpdrive warp trick. do it.
otherwise, avoid 0.5 and 0.6 tank out or use inertia modules use the in game map to look for 1. ships destroyed in last hour. and 2. pilots undocked in past hour.
Avoid key systems like Madirmilire Uedama <-Freighter suicide hotline. Niarja Sivala
add code. (they used to be .code) to your watch list. and be social, when you see a freighter come out of a gate your going into, open a chat with them and ask if its clear. this helps me alot.
oh and if u have a friend, have them duel you, and web you to get to warp fast. have them scout out for code members
as much as i want to protect people who get ganked, the game's mechanics mean i can only avenge as i can't help until they open fire.(and if i offer to web you...most people assume i tricking them. can't blame em honestly) |
JPC2501
Phalanx Armament
0
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Posted - 2016.10.25 19:38:21 -
[7] - Quote
ThatGÇÖs the info I was looking for, thank you Lasisha. I didnGÇÖt realize this had become so much of an issue even on low value cargo.
So correct me if IGÇÖm wrong, but a T1 transport ship even with full tank canGÇÖt really survive 2 basic T1 cruisers in 0.5 or .6? That's about 40,000 damage over the 20 second response time in 0.5.
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Lasisha Mishi
Caldari Strike Witches
71
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Posted - 2016.10.25 19:41:28 -
[8] - Quote
JPC2501 wrote:ThatGÇÖs the info I was looking for, thank you Lasisha. I didnGÇÖt realize this had become so much of an issue even on low value cargo.
So correct me if IGÇÖm wrong, but a T1 transport ship even with full tank canGÇÖt really survive 2 basic T1 cruisers in 0.5 or .6? That's about 40,000 damage over the 20 second response time in 0.5.
yep yep
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Paranoid Loyd
9740
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Posted - 2016.10.25 19:50:45 -
[9] - Quote
Lasisha Mishi wrote:JPC2501 wrote:ThatGÇÖs the info I was looking for, thank you Lasisha. I didnGÇÖt realize this had become so much of an issue even on low value cargo.
So correct me if IGÇÖm wrong, but a T1 transport ship even with full tank canGÇÖt really survive 2 basic T1 cruisers in 0.5 or .6? That's about 40,000 damage over the 20 second response time in 0.5.
yep yep This is incorrect, there are two classes of T1 haulers. Badger, Wreathe, Nereus and Sigil can easily survive when properly fit.
"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix
Fix the Prospect!
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JPC2501
Phalanx Armament
0
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Posted - 2016.10.25 19:51:19 -
[10] - Quote
Lasisha Mishi wrote:JPC2501 wrote:ThatGÇÖs the info I was looking for, thank you Lasisha. I didnGÇÖt realize this had become so much of an issue even on low value cargo.
So correct me if IGÇÖm wrong, but a T1 transport ship even with full tank canGÇÖt really survive 2 basic T1 cruisers in 0.5 or .6? That's about 40,000 damage over the 20 second response time in 0.5.
yep yep
So.. is the best strategy no tank at all the the MWD trick with cloak?
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2536
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Posted - 2016.10.25 19:54:56 -
[11] - Quote
Lasisha Mishi wrote:JPC2501 wrote:ThatGÇÖs the info I was looking for, thank you Lasisha. I didnGÇÖt realize this had become so much of an issue even on low value cargo.
So correct me if IGÇÖm wrong, but a T1 transport ship even with full tank canGÇÖt really survive 2 basic T1 cruisers in 0.5 or .6? That's about 40,000 damage over the 20 second response time in 0.5.
yep yep
For the record, a ~75K omni EHP Nereus isn't all that hard to make. Probably pull off 100K against kin/therm. Won't haul a ton, of course, but you can strap a pretty beefy tank to them if you're so inclined.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Lasisha Mishi
Caldari Strike Witches
71
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Posted - 2016.10.25 19:58:42 -
[12] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote: This is incorrect, there are two classes of T1 haulers. Badger, Wreathe, Nereus and Sigil can easily survive when properly fit.
ah right. forgot about those xD
though the rest of the points still stand. don't make those 4 "cargo expanded" its best to make them fast warp set up
JPC2501 wrote:Lasisha Mishi wrote:JPC2501 wrote:ThatGÇÖs the info I was looking for, thank you Lasisha. I didnGÇÖt realize this had become so much of an issue even on low value cargo.
So correct me if IGÇÖm wrong, but a T1 transport ship even with full tank canGÇÖt really survive 2 basic T1 cruisers in 0.5 or .6? That's about 40,000 damage over the 20 second response time in 0.5.
yep yep So.. is the best strategy no tank at all the the MWD trick with cloak? depends on the ship but generally yes
some ships (like the gent above who corrected me) have fast warp speed, but smaller cargo. put inertia stablizers on them and warp warp
Covert Ops cloaks(t2 industrials) are most ideal
as for microwarp/ cloak. i'm not sure if both work together. by cloak i ment the t2 version
though i guess cloaking and flying off a distance would work...but its risky
microwarp only works if they don't scramble you.
so i'd say in 0.5-0.7 use the 4 above with inertia set up.
or a pretty powerful tank (most gankers use blasters. so thermal/kinetic resist is all you need) |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Escalating Entropy
10775
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Posted - 2016.10.25 19:59:13 -
[13] - Quote
Lasisha Mishi wrote:JPC2501 wrote:ThatGÇÖs the info I was looking for, thank you Lasisha. I didnGÇÖt realize this had become so much of an issue even on low value cargo.
So correct me if IGÇÖm wrong, but a T1 transport ship even with full tank canGÇÖt really survive 2 basic T1 cruisers in 0.5 or .6? That's about 40,000 damage over the 20 second response time in 0.5.
yep yep Actually... it is more common that you will encounter T1 Destroyers that pump out, at most, 400-500 dps. You can easily tank one or two with a tanky T1 Industrial, but as pointed out above, the best solution is to get around faster with or without help.
Also, tesponse time for CONCORD is closer to 15 seconds under realistic conditions.
How did you Veterans start?
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JPC2501
Phalanx Armament
0
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Posted - 2016.10.25 19:59:34 -
[14] - Quote
Thanks, I do need the cargo space. IGÇÖm just using an alt to transport POS fuel made in WH space.
I hadnGÇÖt realized the prevalence and ease of ganking had made this tedious task even more so! Ugh, IGÇÖm starting to recall how much of a GÇ£jobGÇ¥ this game can be.
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Lasisha Mishi
Caldari Strike Witches
71
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Posted - 2016.10.25 20:02:21 -
[15] - Quote
JPC2501 wrote:Ugh, IGÇÖm starting to recall how much of a GÇ£jobGÇ¥ this game can be. and that thinking is why we have contract jobs that put food on the table for people like my alt xD
specially with Uedama being freighter suicide. so i end up going on the 44 or so jump side path(passing hek) with alot of contracts for massive profit cause alot of people have given up with Uedama being what it is.
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2536
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Posted - 2016.10.25 20:03:05 -
[16] - Quote
JPC2501 wrote:Thanks, I do need the cargo space. IGÇÖm just using an alt to transport POS fuel made in WH space. I hadnGÇÖt realized the prevalence and ease of ganking had made this tedious task even more so! Ugh, IGÇÖm starting to recall how much of a GÇ£jobGÇ¥ this game can be.
If you have sufficient volume, and appropriately value your time, public courier contracts are really very economical. I almost never haul anything myself more than a few "last mile" jumps.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
652
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Posted - 2016.10.25 20:04:31 -
[17] - Quote
The way I defend against it is putting the risk of hauling on someone else by using courier contracts
@lunettelulu7
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Escalating Entropy
10776
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Posted - 2016.10.25 20:07:11 -
[18] - Quote
JPC2501 wrote:Thanks, I do need the cargo space. IGÇÖm just using an alt to transport POS fuel made in WH space. I hadnGÇÖt realized the prevalence and ease of ganking had made this tedious task even more so! Ugh, IGÇÖm starting to recall how much of a GÇ£jobGÇ¥ this game can be. Interestingly, it is actually harder than it was in previous years.
No more insurance for ganking. Prices for ships have gone up. No more "boomerang" tactic. Security Status goes down faster. More fast locking ships are now available (for counter ganking) More tactics for quickly getting around safely have been discovered and reported. Industrial ships have more HP than before. More industrials have large "specialized holds" for stuff, allowing people to fit their ships entirely with tanking mods. Freighters and other ships of the same size have more HP.
There are more dedicated groups than before (it used to be more of a lol-casual thing) focusing more on chokepoints in the game... but overall, ganking is at an all time low.
How did you Veterans start?
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JPC2501
Phalanx Armament
0
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Posted - 2016.10.25 20:19:51 -
[19] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:JPC2501 wrote:Thanks, I do need the cargo space. IGÇÖm just using an alt to transport POS fuel made in WH space. I hadnGÇÖt realized the prevalence and ease of ganking had made this tedious task even more so! Ugh, IGÇÖm starting to recall how much of a GÇ£jobGÇ¥ this game can be. Interestingly, it is actually harder than it was in previous years. No more insurance for ganking. Prices for ships have gone up. No more "boomerang" tactic. Security Status goes down faster. More fast locking ships are now available (for counter ganking) More tactics for quickly getting around safely have been discovered and reported. Industrial ships have more HP than before. More industrials have large "specialized holds" for stuff, allowing people to fit their ships entirely with tanking mods. Freighters and other ships of the same size have more HP. There are more dedicated groups than before (it used to be more of a lol-casual thing) focusing more on chokepoints in the game... but overall, ganking is at an all time low.
Interesting, perhaps I just got unlucky. |
Gogela
Heh...
3362
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Posted - 2016.10.25 20:20:09 -
[20] - Quote
Meh. I've been keeping busy. The ganking is good.
If you want to avoid camps in .5-.6 focus on your tank. If you want to avoid ganks in 1.0, warp fast. There are some new modules that can help for both... haulers have more tank now. That said, we'll always find a way. Don't haul more than your ship is worth is the best advice, tbqh. You can deter me... CODE. don't care and will pop you no matter what. Get a mining permit?
Signatures should be used responsibly...
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voetius
Quiet Days in Clichy
432
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Posted - 2016.10.25 20:21:33 -
[21] - Quote
JPC2501 wrote:Thanks, I do need the cargo space. IGÇÖm just using an alt to transport POS fuel made in WH space. I hadnGÇÖt realized the prevalence and ease of ganking had made this tedious task even more so! Ugh, IGÇÖm starting to recall how much of a GÇ£jobGÇ¥ this game can be.
That's a good point about the job aspect.
I do everything I can to minimise the time spent doing boring stuff. In your position I would use a courier service to move stuff, and a DST for the final part of the goods movement. |
JPC2501
Phalanx Armament
0
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Posted - 2016.10.25 20:22:16 -
[22] - Quote
[/quote] and that thinking is why we have contract jobs that put food on the table for people like my alt xD [/quote]
I might take you up on that next time!
Usually, I AKF the trip to the cargo then fly it back myself. I've been ganked before in high sec, but never when I was not afk. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
27017
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Posted - 2016.10.25 20:30:31 -
[23] - Quote
Personally I'd say 130m is too much to be hauling in a T1, I use well tanked fast to warp T1 haulers and won't exceed 100m in cargo; if I have a more valuable or large multijump load I shift the risk to Red Frog.
Knowing who, and where, your friendly neighbourhood gankers are is useful intel, set them to terrible with the standings mechanic so that they're obvious in local.
Civilised behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
New Player FAQ
Feyd's Survival Pack
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Galaxy Duck
Galaxy Farm Carebear Repurposing
81
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Posted - 2016.10.25 20:35:27 -
[24] - Quote
The current status?
We're in the miner killin' business, and cousin, business is a-boomin'! |
Lasisha Mishi
Caldari Strike Witches
73
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Posted - 2016.10.25 20:48:46 -
[25] - Quote
Galaxy Duck wrote:The current status? We're in the miner killin' business, and cousin, business is a-boomin'! *continues to mine as falcon sits on top of me*
life is so much easier when you not alone |
Knitram Relik
Atomic Amish
64
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Posted - 2016.10.25 20:51:51 -
[26] - Quote
How is it this thread is on page two and no one has given the best advice yet?
GET A PERMIT AND FLY COMPLIANT.
[WTS] - Signature. 500 mil ISK
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Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
384
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Posted - 2016.10.25 20:57:29 -
[27] - Quote
Knitram Relik wrote:How is it this thread is on page two and no one has given the best advice yet?
GET A PERMIT AND FLY COMPLIANT.
We were waiting for you, dear.
Have a cookie.
--Gadget
Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist
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Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
419
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Posted - 2016.10.25 22:13:04 -
[28] - Quote
Looked up your loss.
You had four modules that reduced your hull by 23% each. You had three rigs that reduced your armour by 5-10% each (skills dependent).
The feeble resistance mods you had fitted were T1 and meta.
[EDIT] And you didn't need two of those Expanded Cargoholds. It would have fit with two, made you faster and stronger while doing so. |
Ryzhik Belka
Free of Taxes
5
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Posted - 2016.10.25 22:58:36 -
[29] - Quote
Don't forget the bumping. If you're in a slow ship, there's no need for kamikaze-squad. A single Machariel can hold you hostage untill you pay ransom or self-destruct your ship in frustration. |
Paranoid Loyd
9741
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Posted - 2016.10.25 23:06:53 -
[30] - Quote
Ryzhik Belka wrote:Don't forget the bumping. If you're in a slow ship, there's no need for kamikaze-squad. A single Machariel can hold you hostage untill you pay ransom or self-destruct your ship in frustration. This thread isn't about freighters. Please keep your tears in the appropriate threads.
"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix
Fix the Prospect!
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