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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Gaogan
Gallente Solar Storm
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Posted - 2007.03.26 04:49:00 -
[1]
I refer to corp theft. I thought it was CCP's position that it is up to the players to enforce their own rule of law, and punish corp thief scum themselves, but how are you supposed to do that when you can't catch them?
With no audit logs in place for corp hanger access, when things just go missing how are you supposed to find the thief and introduce them to the business end of some blasters? Why is it against policy for GMs to check the logs and tell you who to go kill?
I can appreciate the stance that they will not return the items, but if we are supposed to handle this ourselves, we need access to the audit logs. If continued, this policy will ruin the game for more and more people and cripples corporations.
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Novina Agrari
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Posted - 2007.03.26 04:53:00 -
[2]
I sympathize. However, without audit logs in, consider changing the system you have for your corp hangars.
A great corp I was in operated under a donation rule. Basic hangar access was free, but had only the bare essentials in it. The next step up cost 50 million ISK, and had a nice variety to choose from. Of course, if you cleared out the hangar, odds were you'd be getting 50-75m ISK worth of stuff.
Not perfect, but hey, work with the rules as they exist.
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Gaogan
Gallente Solar Storm
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Posted - 2007.03.26 14:28:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Novina Agrari I sympathize. However, without audit logs in, consider changing the system you have for your corp hangars.
A great corp I was in operated under a donation rule. Basic hangar access was free, but had only the bare essentials in it. The next step up cost 50 million ISK, and had a nice variety to choose from. Of course, if you cleared out the hangar, odds were you'd be getting 50-75m ISK worth of stuff.
Not perfect, but hey, work with the rules as they exist.
We do operate something like that, so our loss in this case was small, and not something I am concerned about. What I AM concerned about is that the thieving scum is still in the corp and we have NO MEANS of identifying them and kicking them out. Barring them deciding to confess, they can simply keep stealing again and again with impunity.
This is entirely unacceptable from a customer service standpoint.
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Marcus Druallis
Quantum Industries Prime Orbital Systems
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Posted - 2007.03.26 14:36:00 -
[4]
fill up the hangar with stuff again, and put something very random in there. then when it is all stolen, look through every members hangar for the random item? Tedious, but should work. --
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes - Devil ([email protected]) |
Megaman 88
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Posted - 2007.03.26 14:47:00 -
[5]
IMO being a corporate thief is just another way to play the game. Still, audit logs would be a good addition. If we had audit logs, corps could rely on those, and not enforce those "xx mill for hangar access" rules.
= more loot + more problems afterwards for the thief.
Sounds interesting. |
darth solo
Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.03.26 15:03:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Marcus Druallis fill up the hangar with stuff again, and put something very random in there. then when it is all stolen, look through every members hangar for the random item? Tedious, but should work.
they always trade it to an alt.
d solo. celes apoc new kilboard |
Lord WarATron
Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.03.26 15:04:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 26/03/2007 15:01:17 Put your stuff in giant secure cans so it keeps a log. Have lots of cans. I.E 1 can for EW, 1 Can for Missiles etc etc. Not perfect but I think giant 100km3 freightor cans also keep a log, but dont quote me on that! --
Billion Isk Mission |
Chrysalis D'lilth
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Posted - 2007.03.26 15:11:00 -
[8]
Just a question - If you do that, what stops them taking the cans/containers too ?
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Esurnir
Amarr Bears Inc FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.26 15:16:00 -
[9]
The real problem is the lack of bpo for the station warehouse, how can you get a "log" using cans if you don't have any in the first place in 0.0, large audit secure (the largest non station only can transportable) can only fit mod storage needs, if you need some mineral storage and ship storage audit, your screwed ----
Quote: Thou shall pew pew.
Book of Revelation 12, 51 |
Spoon Thumb
Khanid Aerospace Group Khanid Provincial Authority
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Posted - 2007.03.26 15:16:00 -
[10]
My corp only ever gives hanger access (take) on a need to use basis. Don't promote someone to have better hanger access if they don't need to use that hanger.
Remember, some people don't need to take, only put in. Also we use our BPO hanger like one gigantic "lockdown", with only CEO and Director able to take
But any member can view any hanger so the business is transparent in the literal sense.
Khaldari Research Services BPO Shop KPA Recruiting! |
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Esurnir
Amarr Bears Inc FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.26 15:17:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Chrysalis D'lilth Just a question - If you do that, what stops them taking the cans/containers too ?
Role "Container Access - Take" is needed to remove a station container, the "hangar access take" don't allow you to take container. ----
Quote: Thou shall pew pew.
Book of Revelation 12, 51 |
SencneS
Amarr Keepers of the Holy Bagel SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.26 15:44:00 -
[12]
As someone said you can put all your stuff in cans and have an audit log on the can. You have to set the corp role to deny can "take" access but it still doesn't stop stealing at a Director level.
As a director you can take the can, purchase a new one move stuff around. Sure the directors name will be all over it but the log will be so large it's pointless to look though.
You need better role management. Understanding the roles is key. Although our corp doesn't use this, I consider this to be one of the most secure ways to deal with corporate assets.
Understanding Corp Roles really helps.
HQ Hanger access - Access to HQ Hanger ONLY! it does NOT filter down to other bases. If you give someone HQ access they can only access the HQ Hanger.
HQ Container Access - This is access to TAKE the container from HQ ONLY. Open allows people to still open the can, and take whats inside, they just can't take the entire can.
Base Hanger access - This is more helpful then given credit for. Basically this restricts the access to a specific base (Even HQ) the base is selected in the Role Management screen. This is ideal for new members. Lets say you want to new members access but only to one base. Assign the base to them, and assign the Base Hanger access level.
Base Container Access (Same as HQ but at the base instead)
Other Hanger Access - This is the Dangerous one, people don't consider. This is EVERY SINGLE CORP HANGER AT EVERY SINGLE BASE, apart from HQ. It doesn't matter if you have selected a base for them, if they have "Other hanger access" they can access any hanger. It's very convenient but very dangerous.
Other Container Access - Same at the others but literally every single hanger your corp has apart from HQ.
You'll be surprised just how usable the system if you understand how to set it up. Our corp is kinda open on its hanger but in a single click I can turn it all off.
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Send ISK to SencneS for good Kama! |
Kruel
Beyond Divinity Inc Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.26 15:57:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Gaogan
So we are just supposed to bend over and take it?
Yessir. Bend over and lube it up.
I've never had a problem with corp thieves. Then again I've only let people I trust borrow BPOs.
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Gaogan
Gallente Solar Storm
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Posted - 2007.03.26 19:23:00 -
[14]
Non sequitur, non sequitur, and non sequitur.
The issue is not about containing losses, keeping security tight, or using the audit log containers, which do not log put and take actions anyhow, and are not available in 0.0. This is simply about what to do when someone has abused their access.
In a corporation you have to trust people, so sooner or later you WILL be robbed. It is only a matter of time. There are things you can do to minimize the loss, the question is, what can you do to detect it when it happens, and boot the scum that did it?
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Pewpewdude
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Posted - 2007.03.26 19:24:00 -
[15]
Awh, i was hoping there was explicit content in this thread :( i was duped!
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AirWalker
Amarr Galactic Response Team
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Posted - 2007.03.26 23:27:00 -
[16]
if you were dumb enough to get your corp robbed you should have already lubed and grabbed your ankles
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Gaogan
Gallente Solar Storm
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Posted - 2007.03.27 03:24:00 -
[17]
Originally by: AirWalker if you were dumb enough to get your corp robbed you should have already lubed and grabbed your ankles
Again moron, there is nothing dumb about being victimized. Sooner or later it WILL happen. There is no way to be 100% sure of avoiding it. It is dealing with the aftermath that is the problem.
The Bill Orielly's of the world need not post their blame the victim BS. This is a question on CCP policy of intentionally not providing any means to detect an intruder and remove them.
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Kazuma Saruwatari
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Posted - 2007.03.27 03:54:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Gaogan This is a question on CCP policy of intentionally not providing any means to detect an intruder and remove them.
If CCP says corp thievery is a viable game path, there should be a counter to it, like with everything else in EVE (not counting exploits and other "broken" game mechanics).
Unfortunately, corp thievery is vastly in the favor of the thief, considering that there's no way to even know who's the thief, let alone hunt him down afterwards. -
NPC Vendetta system, Local rehash, Probe decoys |
Thomas Torquemada
Minmatar Universal Peace Corp
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Posted - 2007.03.27 05:29:00 -
[19]
Its all a trust thing, if you dont fully trust someone, dont give them access.
UPC - PVP'ers Good and Bad, How Do You Want Peace? Through Talk Or In A Casket? We Decide!
Peace My Brothers... |
Flaming Lemming
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Posted - 2007.03.27 06:07:00 -
[20]
Why hasn't Backdoor Bandit (or anyone from the MGRL) replied here yet, I'm sure they'd have an interesting outlook on the subject. I'm just an Alt....but my main doesn't have a sig either.
a forum thread you need to read |
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Gaogan
Gallente Solar Storm
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Posted - 2007.03.27 14:52:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Thomas Torquemada Its all a trust thing, if you dont fully trust someone, dont give them access.
DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUH. Please READ before posting stupid drivel. The question is what to do when someone abuses that trust. There is no way to find and remove them.
Trusting someone does not mean they will never betray you.
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Grez
Minmatar The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.03.27 14:58:00 -
[22]
Use station cans. Not only useful for security reasons, but ace for keeping everything catagorised. --- Cache Clearer |
Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2007.03.27 15:09:00 -
[23]
Over using yet more containers to make our hangars take minutes to load, on a bad day, I'd advocate pilots being able to be put under surveillance, not blanket everyone just a percentage of the membership. For rotating scrutiny or static stakeouts on high risk suspects.
That way the corporate theft oppertunity is still there for those who think it's an integral part of EVE yet it leaves the corporation management with a chance at spotting the offending party and get actual hard proof.
Also Known As |
Rabbitual Ferrier
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Posted - 2007.03.27 15:25:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Gaogan
Originally by: Thomas Torquemada Its all a trust thing, if you dont fully trust someone, dont give them access.
DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUH. Please READ before posting stupid drivel. The question is what to do when someone abuses that trust. There is no way to find and remove them.
Trusting someone does not mean they will never betray you.
Well mostly its a case of Alts being the theives, rather than mains trading off to mains or other alts. And there in lies the problem. Not so much corp thieves thieving, but how to allow some justice or retalliation (there was talk of flagged stolen items a while back) among various other options.
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Grez
Minmatar The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.03.27 15:39:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Danton Marcellus Over using yet more containers to make our hangars take minutes to load, on a bad day, I'd advocate pilots being able to be put under surveillance, not blanket everyone just a percentage of the membership. For rotating scrutiny or static stakeouts on high risk suspects.
That way the corporate theft oppertunity is still there for those who think it's an integral part of EVE yet it leaves the corporation management with a chance at spotting the offending party and get actual hard proof.
You do realise that containers make the corp hanger load faster because it doesn't have to load all the items at once? --- Cache Clearer |
Amphetaminer
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Posted - 2007.03.27 16:34:00 -
[26]
if CCP is against corp thievery then they should put in something to hurt the thieves. Doing something like switching the thieves roles so he cant leave is even treated as herrasment?! while its one of the few things you can do to punish them..
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Gaogan
Gallente Solar Storm
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Posted - 2007.03.27 17:19:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Grez Use station cans. Not only useful for security reasons, but ace for keeping everything catagorised.
Reading before posting.
This has been suggested several times, and is completely beside the point. This issue is what to do AFTER the fact. Not to mention that station containers are not available in 0.0.
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Gaogan
Gallente Solar Storm
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Posted - 2007.04.02 18:58:00 -
[28]
Still waiting for a way to detect a corp thief. Or at least an official response from CCP confirming that they intended for thieves to be impossible to catch.
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Jex Jast
Go for the booty
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Posted - 2007.04.02 19:01:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Gaogan Still waiting for a way to detect a corp thief. Or at least an official response from CCP confirming that they intended for thieves to be impossible to catch.
Corp thievery is something you stop before it starts. Like real thievery.
Why monitor your house 24/7 to catch a thief in the act when you could just lock all the entrances? (this is of course ignoring the window-breaking, lock-picking, etc. possibilities - we're making an analogy here).
So to tie this in with your demands: there's no way to catch a thief in action because he's not supposed to be able to get to you in the first place. If it is it's because you let strangers into your house, or don't lock the door. -----
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Splagada
Minmatar Tides of Silence Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.02 19:18:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 26/03/2007 15:01:17 Put your stuff in giant secure cans so it keeps a log. Have lots of cans. I.E 1 can for EW, 1 Can for Missiles etc etc. Not perfect but I think giant 100km3 freightor cans also keep a log, but dont quote me on that!
Wouldnt that actually work? ------
Relaxed corp recruiting |
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