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So we are just supposed to bend over and take it?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Gaogan Gallente Solar Storm	Posted - 2007.03.26 04:49:00 - [1] I refer to corp theft. I thought it was CCP's position that it is up to the players to enforce their own rule of law, and punish corp thief scum themselves, but how are you supposed to do that when you can't catch them? With no audit logs in place for corp hanger access, when things just go missing how are you supposed to find the thief and introduce them to the business end of some blasters? Why is it against policy for GMs to check the logs and tell you who to go kill? I can appreciate the stance that they will not return the items, but if we are supposed to handle this ourselves, we need access to the audit logs. If continued, this policy will ruin the game for more and more people and cripples corporations.
Novina Agrari	Posted - 2007.03.26 04:53:00 - [2] I sympathize. However, without audit logs in, consider changing the system you have for your corp hangars. A great corp I was in operated under a donation rule. Basic hangar access was free, but had only the bare essentials in it. The next step up cost 50 million ISK, and had a nice variety to choose from. Of course, if you cleared out the hangar, odds were you'd be getting 50-75m ISK worth of stuff. Not perfect, but hey, work with the rules as they exist.
Gaogan Gallente Solar Storm	Posted - 2007.03.26 14:28:00 - [3] Originally by: Novina Agrari I sympathize. However, without audit logs in, consider changing the system you have for your corp hangars. A great corp I was in operated under a donation rule. Basic hangar access was free, but had only the bare essentials in it. The next step up cost 50 million ISK, and had a nice variety to choose from. Of course, if you cleared out the hangar, odds were you'd be getting 50-75m ISK worth of stuff. Not perfect, but hey, work with the rules as they exist. We do operate something like that, so our loss in this case was small, and not something I am concerned about. What I AM concerned about is that the thieving scum is still in the corp and we have NO MEANS of identifying them and kicking them out. Barring them deciding to confess, they can simply keep stealing again and again with impunity. This is entirely unacceptable from a customer service standpoint.
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2007.03.26 14:36:00 - [4] fill up the hangar with stuff again, and put something very random in there. then when it is all stolen, look through every members hangar for the random item? Tedious, but should work. -- Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes - Devil ([email protected])
Megaman 88	Posted - 2007.03.26 14:47:00 - [5] IMO being a corporate thief is just another way to play the game. Still, audit logs would be a good addition. If we had audit logs, corps could rely on those, and not enforce those "xx mill for hangar access" rules. = more loot + more problems afterwards for the thief. Sounds interesting.
darth solo Insurgency	Posted - 2007.03.26 15:03:00 - [6] Originally by: Marcus Druallis fill up the hangar with stuff again, and put something very random in there. then when it is all stolen, look through every members hangar for the random item? Tedious, but should work. they always trade it to an alt. d solo. celes apoc new kilboard
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.26 15:04:00 - [7] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 26/03/2007 15:01:17 Put your stuff in giant secure cans so it keeps a log. Have lots of cans. I.E 1 can for EW, 1 Can for Missiles etc etc. Not perfect but I think giant 100km3 freightor cans also keep a log, but dont quote me on that! -- Billion Isk Mission
Chrysalis D'lilth	Posted - 2007.03.26 15:11:00 - [8] Just a question - If you do that, what stops them taking the cans/containers too ?
Esurnir Amarr Bears Inc FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.26 15:16:00 - [9] The real problem is the lack of bpo for the station warehouse, how can you get a "log" using cans if you don't have any in the first place in 0.0, large audit secure (the largest non station only can transportable) can only fit mod storage needs, if you need some mineral storage and ship storage audit, your screwed ---- Quote: Thou shall pew pew. Book of Revelation 12, 51
Spoon Thumb Khanid Aerospace Group Khanid Provincial Authority	Posted - 2007.03.26 15:16:00 - [10] My corp only ever gives hanger access (take) on a need to use basis. Don't promote someone to have better hanger access if they don't need to use that hanger. Remember, some people don't need to take, only put in. Also we use our BPO hanger like one gigantic "lockdown", with only CEO and Director able to take But any member can view any hanger so the business is transparent in the literal sense. Khaldari Research Services BPO Shop KPA Recruiting!

Esurnir Amarr Bears Inc FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.26 15:17:00 - [11] Originally by: Chrysalis D'lilth Just a question - If you do that, what stops them taking the cans/containers too ? Role "Container Access - Take" is needed to remove a station container, the "hangar access take" don't allow you to take container. ---- Quote: Thou shall pew pew. Book of Revelation 12, 51
SencneS Amarr Keepers of the Holy Bagel SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.26 15:44:00 - [12] As someone said you can put all your stuff in cans and have an audit log on the can. You have to set the corp role to deny can "take" access but it still doesn't stop stealing at a Director level. As a director you can take the can, purchase a new one move stuff around. Sure the directors name will be all over it but the log will be so large it's pointless to look though. You need better role management. Understanding the roles is key. Although our corp doesn't use this, I consider this to be one of the most secure ways to deal with corporate assets. Understanding Corp Roles really helps. HQ Hanger access - Access to HQ Hanger ONLY! it does NOT filter down to other bases. If you give someone HQ access they can only access the HQ Hanger. HQ Container Access - This is access to TAKE the container from HQ ONLY. Open allows people to still open the can, and take whats inside, they just can't take the entire can. Base Hanger access - This is more helpful then given credit for. Basically this restricts the access to a specific base (Even HQ) the base is selected in the Role Management screen. This is ideal for new members. Lets say you want to new members access but only to one base. Assign the base to them, and assign the Base Hanger access level. Base Container Access (Same as HQ but at the base instead) Other Hanger Access - This is the Dangerous one, people don't consider. This is EVERY SINGLE CORP HANGER AT EVERY SINGLE BASE, apart from HQ. It doesn't matter if you have selected a base for them, if they have "Other hanger access" they can access any hanger. It's very convenient but very dangerous. Other Container Access - Same at the others but literally every single hanger your corp has apart from HQ. You'll be surprised just how usable the system if you understand how to set it up. Our corp is kinda open on its hanger but in a single click I can turn it all off. ---------------------------------- Send ISK to SencneS for good Kama!
Kruel Beyond Divinity Inc Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.26 15:57:00 - [13] Originally by: Gaogan So we are just supposed to bend over and take it? Yessir. Bend over and lube it up. I've never had a problem with corp thieves. Then again I've only let people I trust borrow BPOs.
Gaogan Gallente Solar Storm	Posted - 2007.03.26 19:23:00 - [14] Non sequitur, non sequitur, and non sequitur. The issue is not about containing losses, keeping security tight, or using the audit log containers, which do not log put and take actions anyhow, and are not available in 0.0. This is simply about what to do when someone has abused their access. In a corporation you have to trust people, so sooner or later you WILL be robbed. It is only a matter of time. There are things you can do to minimize the loss, the question is, what can you do to detect it when it happens, and boot the scum that did it?
Pewpewdude	Posted - 2007.03.26 19:24:00 - [15] Awh, i was hoping there was explicit content in this thread :( i was duped!
AirWalker Amarr Galactic Response Team	Posted - 2007.03.26 23:27:00 - [16] if you were dumb enough to get your corp robbed you should have already lubed and grabbed your ankles
Gaogan Gallente Solar Storm	Posted - 2007.03.27 03:24:00 - [17] Originally by: AirWalker if you were dumb enough to get your corp robbed you should have already lubed and grabbed your ankles Again moron, there is nothing dumb about being victimized. Sooner or later it WILL happen. There is no way to be 100% sure of avoiding it. It is dealing with the aftermath that is the problem. The Bill Orielly's of the world need not post their blame the victim BS. This is a question on CCP policy of intentionally not providing any means to detect an intruder and remove them.
Kazuma Saruwatari	Posted - 2007.03.27 03:54:00 - [18] Originally by: Gaogan This is a question on CCP policy of intentionally not providing any means to detect an intruder and remove them. If CCP says corp thievery is a viable game path, there should be a counter to it, like with everything else in EVE (not counting exploits and other "broken" game mechanics). Unfortunately, corp thievery is vastly in the favor of the thief, considering that there's no way to even know who's the thief, let alone hunt him down afterwards. - NPC Vendetta system, Local rehash, Probe decoys
Thomas Torquemada Minmatar Universal Peace Corp	Posted - 2007.03.27 05:29:00 - [19] Its all a trust thing, if you dont fully trust someone, dont give them access. UPC - PVP'ers Good and Bad, How Do You Want Peace? Through Talk Or In A Casket? We Decide! Peace My Brothers...
Flaming Lemming	Posted - 2007.03.27 06:07:00 - [20] Why hasn't Backdoor Bandit (or anyone from the MGRL) replied here yet, I'm sure they'd have an interesting outlook on the subject. I'm just an Alt....but my main doesn't have a sig either. a forum thread you need to read

Gaogan Gallente Solar Storm	Posted - 2007.03.27 14:52:00 - [21] Originally by: Thomas Torquemada Its all a trust thing, if you dont fully trust someone, dont give them access. DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUH. Please READ before posting stupid drivel. The question is what to do when someone abuses that trust. There is no way to find and remove them. Trusting someone does not mean they will never betray you.
Grez Minmatar The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.03.27 14:58:00 - [22] Use station cans. Not only useful for security reasons, but ace for keeping everything catagorised. --- Cache Clearer
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2007.03.27 15:09:00 - [23] Over using yet more containers to make our hangars take minutes to load, on a bad day, I'd advocate pilots being able to be put under surveillance, not blanket everyone just a percentage of the membership. For rotating scrutiny or static stakeouts on high risk suspects. That way the corporate theft oppertunity is still there for those who think it's an integral part of EVE yet it leaves the corporation management with a chance at spotting the offending party and get actual hard proof. Also Known As
Rabbitual Ferrier	Posted - 2007.03.27 15:25:00 - [24] Originally by: Gaogan Originally by: Thomas Torquemada Its all a trust thing, if you dont fully trust someone, dont give them access. DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUH. Please READ before posting stupid drivel. The question is what to do when someone abuses that trust. There is no way to find and remove them. Trusting someone does not mean they will never betray you. Well mostly its a case of Alts being the theives, rather than mains trading off to mains or other alts. And there in lies the problem. Not so much corp thieves thieving, but how to allow some justice or retalliation (there was talk of flagged stolen items a while back) among various other options.
Grez Minmatar The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.03.27 15:39:00 - [25] Originally by: Danton Marcellus Over using yet more containers to make our hangars take minutes to load, on a bad day, I'd advocate pilots being able to be put under surveillance, not blanket everyone just a percentage of the membership. For rotating scrutiny or static stakeouts on high risk suspects. That way the corporate theft oppertunity is still there for those who think it's an integral part of EVE yet it leaves the corporation management with a chance at spotting the offending party and get actual hard proof. You do realise that containers make the corp hanger load faster because it doesn't have to load all the items at once? --- Cache Clearer
Amphetaminer	Posted - 2007.03.27 16:34:00 - [26] if CCP is against corp thievery then they should put in something to hurt the thieves. Doing something like switching the thieves roles so he cant leave is even treated as herrasment?! while its one of the few things you can do to punish them..
Gaogan Gallente Solar Storm	Posted - 2007.03.27 17:19:00 - [27] Originally by: Grez Use station cans. Not only useful for security reasons, but ace for keeping everything catagorised. Reading before posting. This has been suggested several times, and is completely beside the point. This issue is what to do AFTER the fact. Not to mention that station containers are not available in 0.0.
Gaogan Gallente Solar Storm	Posted - 2007.04.02 18:58:00 - [28] Still waiting for a way to detect a corp thief. Or at least an official response from CCP confirming that they intended for thieves to be impossible to catch.
Jex Jast Go for the booty	Posted - 2007.04.02 19:01:00 - [29] Originally by: Gaogan Still waiting for a way to detect a corp thief. Or at least an official response from CCP confirming that they intended for thieves to be impossible to catch. Corp thievery is something you stop before it starts. Like real thievery. Why monitor your house 24/7 to catch a thief in the act when you could just lock all the entrances? (this is of course ignoring the window-breaking, lock-picking, etc. possibilities - we're making an analogy here). So to tie this in with your demands: there's no way to catch a thief in action because he's not supposed to be able to get to you in the first place. If it is it's because you let strangers into your house, or don't lock the door. -----
Splagada Minmatar Tides of Silence Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.02 19:18:00 - [30] Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 26/03/2007 15:01:17 Put your stuff in giant secure cans so it keeps a log. Have lots of cans. I.E 1 can for EW, 1 Can for Missiles etc etc. Not perfect but I think giant 100km3 freightor cans also keep a log, but dont quote me on that! Wouldnt that actually work? ------ Relaxed corp recruiting


Deckard Bishop Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2007.04.02 19:29:00 - [31] corp theft is allowed. there are a number of ways to limit your exposure to potential thieves such as hanger access limits and audit containers (which are available at npc stations everywhere) Gm's will not help you find a thief when your trust is breached. why would they? the corp thief role is a valid one in eve. players choose who to trust. unfortunately some players do abuse that trust. and yes in your situation you cannot detect who has stolen your items... but this means the corp thief has done well, Gm's will not interfere in a valid tactic. it would be similar to you being blown up and demanding that the GM's told you who blew you up, where they were docked, what their ship is equiped with etc etc.... to be blunt its not going to happen. best suggestion, tighten hanger controls (there is an excellent guide earlier in this thread), keep an eye on member tracking and do checks on member hangers.... oh and before its said, yes i have been a victim of corp theft. but i accept that things could and should have been done better. i learned my lesson :) forum rules \| [email protected] \| Our Website! Contact Support - Report Bug - Join ISD

Kilda Shepp	Posted - 2007.04.02 20:03:00 - [32] Originally by: Deckard Bishop corp theft is allowed. there are a number of ways to limit your exposure to potential thieves such as hanger access limits and audit containers (which are available at npc stations everywhere) Gm's will not help you find a thief when your trust is breached. why would they? the corp thief role is a valid one in eve. players choose who to trust. unfortunately some players do abuse that trust. and yes in your situation you cannot detect who has stolen your items... but this means the corp thief has done well, Gm's will not interfere in a valid tactic. it would be similar to you being blown up and demanding that the GM's told you who blew you up, where they were docked, what their ship is equiped with etc etc.... to be blunt its not going to happen. best suggestion, tighten hanger controls (there is an excellent guide earlier in this thread), keep an eye on member tracking and do checks on member hangers.... oh and before its said, yes i have been a victim of corp theft. but i accept that things could and should have been done better. i learned my lesson :) I'm all for the role of Corp Thief it's part of the game and if you don't secure your stuff well enough someone could steal it. However In reality, if someone stole something from your corporation, you can report it to the police and they will arrest the person and punish them. Now I'm not saying we should run the GM's and ask for punishment, NO I'm saying we should be able to open fire on that person even while in a 1.0 system covered by Concord! Even if it's as simple as submitting a request to concord like a bounty, in which Concord will web/scam the person for 1 minute ever time they pass Concord. "Someone Matching your description was reported for corporate theft. Please do not hold while we scan your ship for the stolen items" Some restrictions, Concord only do it for the first 2 days after they left the Corp. You must have a Container with the log showing they have taken the item.
Jimer Lins Gallente Sanctuary	Posted - 2007.04.02 20:16:00 - [33] Edited by: Jimer Lins on 02/04/2007 20:14:45 Originally by: Jex Jast Originally by: Gaogan Still waiting for a way to detect a corp thief. Or at least an official response from CCP confirming that they intended for thieves to be impossible to catch. Corp thievery is something you stop before it starts. Like real thievery. The problem is that you can still trust someone and be betrayed. Witness the GHSC stuff, which is made of legend. That's an extreme example of how you can ingratiate yourself and be a trusted compatriot. People also get ticked off or feel like they got shafted. Friendships and relationships change in life and in games. Someone recently crowed about how they theoretically stabbed their corp in the back because they finally got fed up with something. Trust can be earned and then abused, and in a game, even more so, because people don't attach the same importance to in-game trust as they do to real life. It might take you months or years in real life, for example, to get a copy of the keys to my house or motorcycle and the permission to enter/leave when you want. (stretched analogies for the block, Alex!) ;) That won't work in EVE because, well- it's a game. People shouldn't have to model all the things they do in real life to engender that kind of trust, or they'd just go outside and meet people (ok, I joke here). Really, it's about time. EVE is a game and people want to move quickly to the fun part. That often means things happen that aren't really effective models of real life, because we want to get to the (pewpew/trading/hauling/mining/missioning) activity. For example, I can take my ship into station, change all the modules on it and relaunch in under a minute or two. In real life, that's probably hours or even days of work- Shipyard manager: "Take the 800mm plates off, that's gonna be at least a day, pal. Oh, and that energized plating? Yeah, that's gonna have to be taken off first, and we have to use the right tools or we'll screw it up, so another 6 hours there. You want those mining lasers dismounted and refitted with electron blasters? No problem, we'll have it done Wednesday." We already make a number of concessions to the game for the purpose of enhancing enjoyment and allowing people to move to the fun stuff more quickly. Corp thievery is a part of the game, and I think it should remain so. Adding tools such as logging hangar use and so forth are really in line with real world mechanics and allow more granular trust to be assigned, and get people moving through the less fun bits and on to the fun. Quote: Why monitor your house 24/7 to catch a thief in the act when you could just lock all the entrances? (this is of course ignoring the window-breaking, lock-picking, etc. possibilities - we're making an analogy here). Well, using the same analogy, if I have a camera monitoring my house, it should catch both the window-breakers and the people I trust if they abuse said trust. It's not unreasonable. Quote: So to tie this in with your demands: there's no way to catch a thief in action because he's not supposed to be able to get to you in the first place. If it is it's because you let strangers into your house, or don't lock the door. Problem is that trust, at least a certain amount, is sort of necessary to enhance enjoyment of the game and the fun aspects- how much fun would it be to roleplay a logistics clerk ("You need an afterburner? Sure thing, coming right up.")? Hangar permissions and so forth work, but there should be a way to ensure that trust, once granted, isn't being abused, or that if it is, the abuser is known and can be brought to (great) justice.
Jimer Lins Gallente Sanctuary	Posted - 2007.04.02 20:18:00 - [34] Edited by: Jimer Lins on 02/04/2007 20:14:26 Originally by: Deckard Bishop players choose who to trust. unfortunately some players do abuse that trust. and yes in your situation you cannot detect who has stolen your items... but this means the corp thief has done well, Gm's will not interfere in a valid tactic. it would be similar to you being blown up and demanding that the GM's told you who blew you up, where they were docked, what their ship is equiped with etc etc.... to be blunt its not going to happen. It may be a valid tactic, but come on- 10 thousand years in the future and we can't even mount a camera over the freaking door? I'm not buying it. ;) (edit- fixed quote nesting)
Forino Ovoli	Posted - 2007.04.02 20:58:00 - [35] Edited by: Forino Ovoli on 02/04/2007 20:55:23 Originally by: Gaogan Originally by: Grez Use station cans. Not only useful for security reasons, but ace for keeping everything catagorised. Reading before posting. From your original post: Originally by: Gaogan With no audit logs in place for corp hanger access, when things just go missing how are you supposed to find the thief and introduce them to the business end of some blasters? Several people have posted on here that there ARE audit logs available if you use the correct storage mechanism. If you choose to NOT use cans then it is your own fault. Complain all you want about not being able to detect the theft after the fact, but your flaming people for telling you how to implement a system that would allow detection just amplifies your own ignorance.

Deckard Bishop Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2007.04.02 21:13:00 - [36] Originally by: Jimer Lins Edited by: Jimer Lins on 02/04/2007 20:14:26 Originally by: Deckard Bishop players choose who to trust. unfortunately some players do abuse that trust. and yes in your situation you cannot detect who has stolen your items... but this means the corp thief has done well, Gm's will not interfere in a valid tactic. it would be similar to you being blown up and demanding that the GM's told you who blew you up, where they were docked, what their ship is equiped with etc etc.... to be blunt its not going to happen. It may be a valid tactic, but come on- 10 thousand years in the future and we can't even mount a camera over the freaking door? I'm not buying it. ;) (edit- fixed quote nesting) ahh... cameras to catch the sneaky buggers (and nuke em whilst they are nabbing a'la Uplink) not actually thought of that.... quite like that idea forum rules \| [email protected] \| Our Website! Contact Support - Report Bug - Join ISD

Kahor Minmatar Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.04.02 21:42:00 - [37] Weren't the container lock thing bugged so that the thief could take the whole container as well? Might have been fixed though, but I know this was the case once. Also don't forget you need to 'lock' the items in the containers to see anything in the audits... ---------------- An eye for an eye make a whole world blind. snip, do not evade the word filter with your sig. Email [email protected] for more information. -HornFrog
SiJira	Posted - 2007.04.03 01:13:00 - [38] Originally by: Kahor Weren't the container lock thing bugged so that the thief could take the whole container as well? Might have been fixed though, but I know this was the case once. Also don't forget you need to 'lock' the items in the containers to see anything in the audits... I believe there are permissions now to take containers or something to that effect ? can someone clarify?
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2007.04.03 01:33:00 - [39] 1) Make sure everyone in the Corp has a role. If a member drops their roles without explaining why, re-assign their role. 2) Use auditing, etc like mentioned above to watch for/catch the theft. 3) When you catch someone make sure that everyone in the Corp/Alliance knows that they are shoot on sight. 4) They will have to drop their roles to get out of the Corp, giving them 24 hours delay before they can leave. 5) 2 hours before the before that 24 hours is up, re-assign their roles. 6) After a few days (longer if they are not figuring it out) they will petition you and the GMs will make you remove the roles so they can leave, in the meantime they are fair game. It will make them be sneaky and actually work for it. Plus if they don't fully understand what is going on it gives you a couple of days of shooting at them and generally making their life miserable. <-----------> Keiron: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=427556&page=2 PvE and/or PvP is not something that appeals to the entire player base
Grendelsbane	Posted - 2007.04.03 05:50:00 - [40] Quote: However In reality, if someone stole something from your corporation, you can report it to the police and they will arrest the person and punish them. Er, no. In reality, if someone steals something from your corp, they'll arrest someone if you know who did it. That's the issue here; I'm not saying it needs to be changed, just pointing out what the original complaint is about again. In any event, here in the real world if you don't know who did it, and not much was taken, then they'll say "oh that's too bad" or make some sort of lame excuse for an investigation and whoever did it gets away with it.

Mr Pinkerton	Posted - 2007.04.03 06:30:00 - [41] Quote: After a few days (longer if they are not figuring it out) they will petition you and the GMs will make you remove the roles so they can leave, in the meantime they are fair game. Actually no, they CANNOT, repeat CANNOT petition to be removed from a corp that keeps rechanging their roles. So essentially, if you discover a corp thief, you can destroy that character. Seems as if though its reasonable power.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.04.03 07:43:00 - [42] Originally by: Mr Pinkerton Quote: After a few days (longer if they are not figuring it out) they will petition you and the GMs will make you remove the roles so they can leave, in the meantime they are fair game. Actually no, they CANNOT, repeat CANNOT petition to be removed from a corp that keeps rechanging their roles. So essentially, if you discover a corp thief, you can destroy that character. Seems as if though its reasonable power. ARE YOU SURE? because i agree with you that it would be fair.
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2007.04.03 07:43:00 - [43] Originally by: Deckard Bishop corp theft is allowed. there are a number of ways to limit your exposure to potential thieves such as hanger access limits and audit containers (which are available at npc stations everywhere) Gm's will not help you find a thief when your trust is breached. why would they? the corp thief role is a valid one in eve. players choose who to trust. unfortunately some players do abuse that trust. and yes in your situation you cannot detect who has stolen your items... but this means the corp thief has done well, Gm's will not interfere in a valid tactic. it would be similar to you being blown up and demanding that the GM's told you who blew you up, where they were docked, what their ship is equiped with etc etc.... to be blunt its not going to happen. best suggestion, tighten hanger controls (there is an excellent guide earlier in this thread), keep an eye on member tracking and do checks on member hangers.... oh and before its said, yes i have been a victim of corp theft. but i accept that things could and should have been done better. i learned my lesson :) Wonderful, theft is allowed within the game mechanics, however with every illegal act there should be potential legal ramifications. Not one person has said that the game shouldn't allow theft, not one person has said that they want it removed from game, however you seem to be hung up on that point and want to blame everyone else for a short sighted game design. GM's shouldn't even need to be contacted when it comes to corp theft, honestly let me boil it down to real world for you. For several years I have been working in Security, with current day security systems, with personal card access for doors and terminals, all events are loged. You see, every door that has the security system installed is linked via a computer, the computer stored all access details. Often the doors also store the data in their own memory as a backup. Now on top of that you usually have security cameras at those entrances. An important thing in because of possible forced entry. Now recently due to the advent of high speed internet, security camera systems have gone fully digital and are connected via the internet, this allows a manager to real time monitor any camera though a web page the security camera system hosts. No matter where they are in the world. Now your idiotic example of a GM telling a player where the offender is, what ship they're in and what equipment they are using is honestly PATHETIC. Its Pathetic! its at the level of pre schooler telling their mother that daddy said they could have a a new toy. I mean realy, are you that hung up of unreality that you lack the capacity to think of a decent excuse for a less that adequate game design? Is it one of these "we want to walk in station so instead of fixing bugs and game limitations, by hook or by crook we will make those 3d people walk" sort of situations? Now instead of giving us your BS with regards to "tightening security" actually give us some security measures that work. As someone just said, were 10000 years in the future and we don't even have security cameras. Pft. WTB, Pen and Pad for Homeless person in corp hangar to write down the names of whoever comes in and takes something.
Antraxx Caldari Deviance Inc	Posted - 2007.04.03 07:57:00 - [44] Originally by: Mr Pinkerton Quote: After a few days (longer if they are not figuring it out) they will petition you and the GMs will make you remove the roles so they can leave, in the meantime they are fair game. Actually no, they CANNOT, repeat CANNOT petition to be removed from a corp that keeps rechanging their roles. So essentially, if you discover a corp thief, you can destroy that character. Seems as if though its reasonable power. Hmm-Pretty sure if a player contacts a GM because they are being forced to remain in a Corp they WILL make you remove the roles... Corp theft is a viable tactic..Using game mechanics purely to "Destroy a chr" would likely fall under harrasment. (No im not a Thief ,we got hit before...) ---------- ---------- Deviance Inc. is recruiting!-Eve mail me :) Originally by: CCP Sharkbait we are screwed. delaying startup again.
Deious Troeyd Minmatar Kalear Fleet Systems	Posted - 2007.04.03 09:12:00 - [45] Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby 1) Make sure everyone in the Corp has a role. If a member drops their roles without explaining why, re-assign their role. 2) Use auditing, etc like mentioned above to watch for/catch the theft. 3) When you catch someone make sure that everyone in the Corp/Alliance knows that they are shoot on sight. 4) They will have to drop their roles to get out of the Corp, giving them 24 hours delay before they can leave. 5) 2 hours before the before that 24 hours is up, re-assign their roles. 6) After a few days (longer if they are not figuring it out) they will petition you and the GMs will make you remove the roles so they can leave, in the meantime they are fair game. It will make them be sneaky and actually work for it. Plus if they don't fully understand what is going on it gives you a couple of days of shooting at them and generally making their life miserable. Great so you have to exploit to get more than 24 hours of pew pew and all the thief has to do is sit in a station and wait until it gets fixed by a gm.
Cipher7 Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.04.03 12:43:00 - [46] Wait a couple months before giving someone basic hangar access. Or better yet give them view access, and if they need something they can ask a director or the CEO. By the time they get access to steal any stuff, they will have put enough time into the corp and paid enough taxes and mined enough minerals that even if they steal the whole basic mods hangar, they pretty much earned it. You have to tailor what the corp offers to what the players are expected to put in, so that if they steal, they only have access to steal what they've earned. If you've been doing mining ops with the corp for 6 months, and steal the whole modules hangar with 100m worth of stuff, the amount you stole is actually less than the amount you put IN to the corp. Hangar access comes AFTER they contribute to the corp, not before, so if they steal, they steal what they've earned.
Elsebeth Rhiannon Minmatar Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.04.03 13:20:00 - [47] It is possible to catch a corp thief (or a spy) in a corporation, if you know there is one. Basically it boils down to baiting and shortening the list of who it could have been, until you have only one name left. Tedious work, but quite doable. -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient now. "When pirates hate your guts, you know you are doing something right."
Grez Minmatar The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.04.03 13:40:00 - [48] Originally by: Nian Banks Is it one of these "we want to walk in station so instead of fixing bugs and game limitations, by hook or by crook we will make those 3d people walk" sort of situations? You're ignorance is amusing. Do research before spouting off rubbish. --- Cache Clearer
St Dragon NexGen Industries	Posted - 2007.04.03 13:45:00 - [49] Originally by: Deckard Bishop Originally by: Jimer Lins Edited by: Jimer Lins on 02/04/2007 20:14:26 Originally by: Deckard Bishop players choose who to trust. unfortunately some players do abuse that trust. and yes in your situation you cannot detect who has stolen your items... but this means the corp thief has done well, Gm's will not interfere in a valid tactic. it would be similar to you being blown up and demanding that the GM's told you who blew you up, where they were docked, what their ship is equiped with etc etc.... to be blunt its not going to happen. It may be a valid tactic, but come on- 10 thousand years in the future and we can't even mount a camera over the freaking door? I'm not buying it. ;) (edit- fixed quote nesting) ahh... cameras to catch the sneaky buggers (and nuke em whilst they are nabbing a'la Uplink) not actually thought of that.... quite like that idea Wouldnt work with me as its the future ill get the stations cargo loading drones to move the cargo for me. And have them moved to an alts cargo hangar. ----------------------------------------------- "Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand
gordon861 Minmatar AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.04.03 13:51:00 - [50] How about just seeding the damn Station Container BPOs like people have been asking for ? At least then we could actually use the audit logs. Originally by: CCP Arkanon I frown on employees being power players to the extent that their gameplay results in any sort of domination over others. I donÆt believe CCP employees should run the EVE universe.


Deckard Bishop Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2007.04.03 14:36:00 - [51] Originally by: Kilda Shepp However In reality, if someone stole something from your corporation, you can report it to the police and they will arrest the person and punish them. Now I'm not saying we should run the GM's and ask for punishment, NO I'm saying we should be able to open fire on that person even while in a 1.0 system covered by Concord! Even if it's as simple as submitting a request to concord like a bounty, in which Concord will web/scam the person for 1 minute ever time they pass Concord. "Someone Matching your description was reported for corporate theft. Please do not hold while we scan your ship for the stolen items" Some restrictions, Concord only do it for the first 2 days after they left the Corp. You must have a Container with the log showing they have taken the item. sounds like a good idea :) but again only works if you have a log. i think most people are concerned when they do not have any logs.... i agree that it would be nice to have a way to id corp thieves, but it must be something that can integrate into the game and realistically fit into the eve-verse.... if anyone comes up with a solution post it the the features/ideas forum..... you never know what a dev might think..... i shouldn't need to point this out but i am a ISD forum moderator, NOT a Dev. i have no say in game mechanics and i can't wave a magic wand to make life easier. sorry! forum rules \| [email protected] \| Our Website! Contact Support - Report Bug - Join ISD

Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2007.04.03 14:51:00 - [52] Originally by: Mr Pinkerton Quote: After a few days (longer if they are not figuring it out) they will petition you and the GMs will make you remove the roles so they can leave, in the meantime they are fair game. Actually no, they CANNOT, repeat CANNOT petition to be removed from a corp that keeps rechanging their roles. So essentially, if you discover a corp thief, you can destroy that character. Seems as if though its reasonable power. Not what we were rather forceably told <-----------> Keiron: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=427556&page=2 PvE and/or PvP is not something that appeals to the entire player base
Hroller McKnutt Gallente	Posted - 2007.04.03 14:54:00 - [53] Originally by: Mr Pinkerton Actually no, they CANNOT, repeat CANNOT petition to be removed from a corp that keeps rechanging their roles. So essentially, if you discover a corp thief, you can destroy that character. Seems as if though its reasonable power. Actually your full of it. They can and have petitioned to have their roles removed. I know, I've seen it happen. We had a corp thief, we discovered him, we kept giving him roles, he whined to the GM's and they told us to leave him alone. -- Unsafe at any speed! Remember my motto: Safety Third!
Mr Pinkerton	Posted - 2007.04.03 18:19:00 - [54] Quote: Actually your full of it. They can and have petitioned to have their roles removed. I know, I've seen it happen. We had a corp thief, we discovered him, we kept giving him roles, he whined to the GM's and they told us to leave him alone. Then the GMs need to get their rules straight with each other. I've seen on 2 seperate occassions where players where told that there was nothing they could do about stopping continous role regranting.


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