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Obdazen	Posted - 2007.03.28 04:12:00 - [1] Well, I've recently returned after a long time out. So you can consider me a noob. I'll be pvping, I'm minmatar, and I've decided to stick with (minmatar) frigs. For pvp: which is better? AF or Inty? AF's seem to be more tank oriented whereas inties are more tacklers, e-warfare types. Is it as simple as that? Or is there more to it? I'll usually be flying with a small gang 2-5 or so. I'm the kind of guy that likes to fill a niche, which is more useful? Thanks for any info.
Valandril Caldari Resurrection R i s e	Posted - 2007.03.28 04:15:00 - [2] First: afs and inty can kill more likely only other frigs (with couple exceptions), and while intys are worth in gangs because of awesome scan res, afs are a lot worse tacklers. -------- Mass murderer, pure pvper and starcraft player =D
Obdazen	Posted - 2007.03.28 04:29:00 - [3] So...that's it? I'm basically confined to a myrmidon if I want to pvp in gangs?
Tulisin Dragonflame	Posted - 2007.03.28 04:48:00 - [4] Originally by: Obdazen So...that's it? I'm basically confined to a myrmidon if I want to pvp in gangs? Erm, if you want to kill things, yeah. The above poster noted that interceptors are excellent tacklers. The problem with AFs is that they aren't usually annoying/damaging enough to be worth shooting at compared to a larger ship, so their tanking prowess goes largely to waste, and they can only fit the small stuff so their damage bonuses go largely to waste when compared to a bigger DPS ship. They make excellent PvE ships, but have little advantage over inties in PvP.
Obdazen	Posted - 2007.03.28 04:51:00 - [5] Edited by: Obdazen on 28/03/2007 04:47:33 Well I guess that answers that question. What I really want to know now is whether or not it's worth it to even go for interceptors for small gang pvp? Do they even fulfill the niche I was thinking about?
Tunajuice Convergent Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.03.28 05:06:00 - [6] Ceptors are fast tacklers.. still good in gangs of all sizes. AFs are kinda sorta dps.. lit bit of a heavy tackler or close in face pounder. They are cool, and I love my harpy to death.. but in the grand scheme of things, they are not as great over tech2 cruisers or BCs. So personally I hate intys.. so I screw around in AFs. However, I think AFs are not really a super duper ship.. but they do amuse some people.
Acinonyx Jubatus International Multi-Player Consortium Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.03.28 05:10:00 - [7] Edited by: Acinonyx Jubatus on 28/03/2007 05:08:04 Ahem, since I fly both, I'll give a bit of a lil overview. AFs, can cost slightly more pending on the AF, they can also be setup o take one hell of a beating, enyo usually being around 3k hp, not bad for a frig. They also hurt rather harshly for frigs, usually 4-5 weapons, or in the case of the ishkur can field up to 5 drones and 3 turrets. That said, they are rather slow, even other frigs, and have worse locking time than an inty. Though the various setups some can be put into can be helpful pending on the situation, they're still vulnerable to nos and web, but still take awhile to kill if you can tank or get out of range. AFs are also capable of running level 2 and even some can do level 3 missions solo, bit tricky but doable. some AFs can solo 0.0 rats if you know which ones scram/web... as those will mess you up. Inties are much faster, usually up to around 3-4kms atleast, as opposed to an AFs 500-600ms with an ab. They cna go much faster than that if done right and your skills are good. They are however much much much more fragile than an AF, and can actually be insta poped if you screw something up, they also lack the same firepower as AFs so they can't really do 0.0 ratting or missions worth a flip. They lock faster than afs and if used right can be more effective than an af, however you'd need 5 fighters assigned to you to make that part truly shine. Basically it comes down to which of the two you prefer, or you cna get both as they both require frigate 5 + small turrets + frig sized skills. In short, the AF is the slugger, that can take a beating and do a fair bit of damage, but it's slow. The inty is the fast nimble ship better off at tackling. Both requiring a fair bit of skill and knowledge on their performance. Both are good at what they do, pending on what you're needed in. Oh and yes, if you want more pvp reliablity, you may want to work on some cruiser/bc skills first, T2 frigs aren't insurable and require a fair bit of skills to truly shine. They still don't do/take damage like a cruiser which is often cheaper and insurable. So, if you want to help kill other frigs and do a bit of extra damage with some survivablity with a heavy tackle, go AF first. If you want speed and able to tackle fast and at far distances, go inty. Hmm, made a slight error.
Obdazen	Posted - 2007.03.28 05:20:00 - [8] Edited by: Obdazen on 28/03/2007 05:17:03 Well that's a lot more informational than just saying "oh, you won't kill anything in either." Thank you. Money isn't a problem so I'm not worried about whether or not I can insure it. They're only 5-15mil. I'd just much rather use faster, lighter ships than the big shoot'em out types. I've also heard that cruisers aren't terribly good at PvP.
Tulisin Dragonflame	Posted - 2007.03.28 05:29:00 - [9] Originally by: Obdazen Edited by: Obdazen on 28/03/2007 05:17:03 Well that's a lot more informational than just saying "oh, you won't kill anything in either." Thank you. Money isn't a problem so I'm not worried about whether or not I can insure it. They're only 5-15mil. I'd just much rather use faster, lighter ships than the big shoot'em out types. I've also heard that cruisers aren't terribly good at PvP. Cruisers or cruiser-sized ships? Yeah, tech1 cruisers are kind of mediocre due to being inbetween the speed of small ships and the damage of the big ships, but if you mean cruiser-sized ships in general then there are some very effective PvP ships. HACs are quite powerful solo, and recons are some of the deadliest ships in the game with their abilities to quickly cripple their enemies into uselessness.
Obdazen	Posted - 2007.03.28 05:35:00 - [10] Well, the thing about that is they're priced reallly high. By my previous post I wasn't saying I'm rich, but 10mil here, 10mil there no big deal. 250mil on a HAC is pretty expensive. Definately wouldn't want to lose one.
Mortuus Minmatar Just-fun Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.03.28 05:48:00 - [11] Both the Claw and the Jaguar are good ships for solo work. Also you shouldn't overlook the Stabber, setup right its a nasty little ship and cheap. The Claw excels at dogfighting, and can kill most other Inties if you keep your wits about you and aren't seriously outclassed by faction/implants. The Jaguar is a great solo frigate, good enough speed, web, scram, and a decent passive tank (2000+ shield, lowest resist is 40%) and with skills and fitting it runs around a 9.x damage mod with autocannons. ex-Occassus Republica <3
Merin Ryskin FinFleet Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.03.28 05:50:00 - [12] Originally by: Obdazen Edited by: Obdazen on 28/03/2007 05:17:03 I've also heard that cruisers aren't terribly good at PvP. You heard wrong, T1 cruisers are probably the most cost-effective ships in the game. You might need a small group of them for the bigger targets, but they're still able to take down much more expensive targets. As for AF vs. interceptor, interceptors by far. The AF's role pretty much doesn't exist, the higher resists are hindered by their frigate-sized tank modules, and their damage output isn't anything impressive. A frigate's defense is speed, and AFs are heavy and slow. Their one real role is interceptor defense, a properly flown AF can rip apart an interceptor in seconds. Interceptors on the other hand, are very useful in PvP. You have essentially zero lock time, and can fly fast enough to evade any damage. Sure, your damage output sucks (good luck even breaking passive shield regen on a target), but you can easily get a scramble point on the target and hold them there for your friends to arrive and get a lock. Neither ship is very good solo, AFs die too easily, and interceptors don't have the damage output to kill anything worth killing. NOS and webs are not your friends, run into either and you'll be dead very quickly.
DiuxDium Loot	Posted - 2007.03.28 05:55:00 - [13] Low lock range of Minny Inty's makes them a bit "meh", though many would disagree I guess. The jaguar is awesome, so if you're going minny, go with AF's. Quote: Also, he didnt even have a Scrambler, so the POS would have gotten away anyway.
Acinonyx Jubatus International Multi-Player Consortium Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.03.28 06:05:00 - [14] Minnie's also get the fabled stilleto, with 4 mid slots, very handy for an inty.
Asylum Seaker Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.03.28 06:37:00 - [15] When I'm soloing, I use my Jag. Great tank, good speed for an AF. I'm quite confidant against other t2 frigs and pretty much all t1 cruisers, and it can kill battlecruisers some times. Its not too bad in a frig gang, if you're not expected to tackle. But if you can take something bigger to a gang.. do it. I use my wolf in frig gangs and gate camps in the same role that a destroyer might take if they were more popular. Slow, but hits hard with 4 arties. Don't go if you're expected to tackle though, 2 midslots is a *****. I haven't used ceptors much. Memento Mori.
Fluffernator	Posted - 2007.03.28 06:40:00 - [16] I think assault frigat and inty work best together. Get the inty to tackle, bring in the AF for damage. They are really meant for gangs, but not solo pvp so much.
Snikkt Time Cube Syndicate Daikoku Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2007.03.28 09:32:00 - [17] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Sure, your damage output sucks (good luck even breaking passive shield regen on a target), but you can easily get a scramble point on the target and hold them there for your friends to arrive and get a lock. and interceptors don't have the damage output to kill anything worth killing. Have you ever fought a T2 neutron blaster Taranis? Scary, scary amounts of Damage. It gets a 50% damage boost right off the bat. ------------------- My opinions (ie, all of my posting here) are not my corporations. Nor should it be taken as such.
Vegetto Ichikai Caldari Point-Zero Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.28 09:50:00 - [18] Edited by: Vegetto Ichikai on 28/03/2007 09:46:46 I get an acceptable DPS for such a small ship with the Crow. Missiles do about 80-90 damage on most targets, which i think is generous. It can't be hit, bubbles can't even stop it, though the stab nerf hurt (i had just bought 3 named i-stabs too heh). I don't fit a webber as that puts me in web range and i'm confused as to why some people do. The trick i think is to know what your up against, namely the targets range. I made the mistake once of going up against a force recon and didn't realise it was one, and was webbed from far away, killing my ship. I like to think of an inty as a fly, buzzing around annoying people and just when you think you got it, you roll up that newspaper, it gets away at the last split second..
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Guardians of the Dawn Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.03.28 10:25:00 - [19] I think best role for AF ingangs is exactly anti tackler. They can kill most fast tackling ships pretty fast. Their speed is more than enough when inside the 20km tackling arena. Also a few AF may be aterror to certain BS. Like a raven with torps for example.... 3 AF may take time but will probably kill it on the long run. If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Lux Simian	Posted - 2007.03.28 11:20:00 - [20] Then there is the Ishkar. That can take down crusiers, but you'll need to have put a lot of work into drone skill points (and with AF 5 you'll be able to field 3 t2 medium drones, 2 t2 lights and 3 t2 turrets plus one NoS). Plus with three mid slots it can fit a webber and scrambler. Plenty of uses. Can hold its own against most ships its own class, can tackle, can take out tacklers, and can add some punch against larger vessels (and if the enemy are fly BS they'll never hit you, but your 5 drones will be a great benefit to your allies firing on them). A very nice all round AF (although its a lot of training to get it up to its maximum potential).
Dark Flare Caldari Corpus PCG	Posted - 2007.03.28 12:21:00 - [21] AFs can take down cruisers and BCs. I've taken down both with my Harpy (well, the BC got away, I was ratting in 0.0 when it jumped me. Got it to structure and it warped. It was Myrmidon. Dark Flare - Corpus PCG
Admiral Pieg Confederation of Red Moon Red Moon Federation	Posted - 2007.03.28 12:42:00 - [22] Originally by: Dark Flare AFs can take down cruisers and BCs. I've taken down both with my Harpy (well, the BC got away, I was ratting in 0.0 when it jumped me. Got it to structure and it warped. It was Myrmidon. and the worst myrmidon pilot ever award goes to.. ______________ Pod from above.
Cassius Hawkeye Minmatar UK Corp FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.28 12:58:00 - [23] Edited by: Cassius Hawkeye on 28/03/2007 12:56:30 Got to say - i've had some experience flying both Ceptors and AF's. IMHO - Ceptors are far more "fun" to fly. They really enhance the strengths of flying small ships - that being you are quick, small and hard to hit. And as one person has already stated in this thread - blaster taranis's are nasty little things. They are relatively quick, hard to hit, and do good dmg at close range. Assault Frigates are something slightly more specialised and you need more sp's to use them well. But they dont play to small ship strengths as much as ceptors do. They are slower, heavier, and though they have a tank - it isn't really anything to shout home about. The only AF i really think excels at a specialised role is the Harpy. A frigate that can snipe support at 100km is fun. I would recommend training for interceptors - and have fun wizzing about in them. Sure you will lose a few, but i believe you have more survivability than a AF. Simply put, you can escape a lot of situations with speed alone. And the Claw is an amazing ship. VERY fast, and very very cheap. It performs its job brilliantly - and that is a fast tackler - nothing more. You want to fill a niche - well there is a niche right there.
Merin Ryskin FinFleet Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.03.28 17:10:00 - [24] Originally by: Snikkt Originally by: Merin Ryskin Sure, your damage output sucks (good luck even breaking passive shield regen on a target), but you can easily get a scramble point on the target and hold them there for your friends to arrive and get a lock. and interceptors don't have the damage output to kill anything worth killing. Have you ever fought a T2 neutron blaster Taranis? Scary, scary amounts of Damage. It gets a 50% damage boost right off the bat. Unless you're in a hauler, the blaster Taranis is a joke. The only thing it's good for is ganking haulers, and bragging about quickfit DPS. Why? Because it has zero ability to fight outside web and NOS range. So you might have very nice DPS for a frigate, but you're dead long before you can actually kill anything.
xenodia Gallente RONA Corporation RONA Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.28 17:24:00 - [25] Originally by: Obdazen Well, I've recently returned after a long time out. So you can consider me a noob. I'll be pvping, I'm minmatar, and I've decided to stick with (minmatar) frigs. For pvp: which is better? AF or Inty? AF's seem to be more tank oriented whereas inties are more tacklers, e-warfare types. Is it as simple as that? Or is there more to it? I'll usually be flying with a small gang 2-5 or so. I'm the kind of guy that likes to fill a niche, which is more useful? Thanks for any info. If you want to be a fast tackler and/or kill T1 frigates/shuttles, go ceptor (or in a group, a bunch of ceptors can kill bigger targets too). If you want to kill interceptors and have a decent chance solo against a cruiser/bc, take an AF. You will have a hard time keeping an interceptor from running away from you, but you can for dang sure kill one if he sticks around. You can also do enough damage to kill a cruiser or even a battlecruiser if he doesnt have the sense to web and nos you. http://www.eve-ronacorp.com
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated Free Trade Coalition	Posted - 2007.03.28 17:26:00 - [26] Edited by: goodby4u on 28/03/2007 17:23:10 Originally by: Obdazen Well, I've recently returned after a long time out. So you can consider me a noob. I'll be pvping, I'm minmatar, and I've decided to stick with (minmatar) frigs. For pvp: which is better? AF or Inty? AF's seem to be more tank oriented whereas inties are more tacklers, e-warfare types. Is it as simple as that? Or is there more to it? I'll usually be flying with a small gang 2-5 or so. I'm the kind of guy that likes to fill a niche, which is more useful? Thanks for any info. Rifter heres why: Fit it out the way you think it will be best for solo pvp and go find some targets,as you die modify your setup however you think it will work best for you,once youve mastered the ship take a good hard look at your ship's setup,then look at the setups on the forums and see if its like the af's tank or the interceptors tank. __________________________________________ Yes it is great being amarr. I am minmatar,fly amarr,use gellente drones and am in caldari space.
xenodia Gallente RONA Corporation RONA Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.28 17:31:00 - [27] Originally by: Dark Flare AFs can take down cruisers and BCs. I've taken down both with my Harpy (well, the BC got away, I was ratting in 0.0 when it jumped me. Got it to structure and it warped. It was Myrmidon. I love Assault Frigs, and agree that they can take down SOME battlecruisers and most T1 cruisers if equipped/flown properly. That said, if you took down a myrmidon solo, that myrmidon pilot royally sucked. A well fit myrmidon can easily tank at least 3x the maximum possible DPS of any assault frigate, so you shouldnt have had a chance of killing him. Now, if he had heavy drones he probably wouldnt be able to kill you either unless you were asleep and he got you webbed, but at the worst for him he should have just had to watch you warp away. http://www.eve-ronacorp.com
Snikkt Time Cube Syndicate Daikoku Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2007.03.28 20:11:00 - [28] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Originally by: Snikkt Originally by: Merin Ryskin Sure, your damage output sucks (good luck even breaking passive shield regen on a target), but you can easily get a scramble point on the target and hold them there for your friends to arrive and get a lock. and interceptors don't have the damage output to kill anything worth killing. Have you ever fought a T2 neutron blaster Taranis? Scary, scary amounts of Damage. It gets a 50% damage boost right off the bat. Unless you're in a hauler, the blaster Taranis is a joke. The only thing it's good for is ganking haulers, and bragging about quickfit DPS. Why? Because it has zero ability to fight outside web and NOS range. So you might have very nice DPS for a frigate, but you're dead long before you can actually kill anything. So fit rails. With Decent gunnery skills, you can get out of web range, stay out of web range, and still be able to do large amounts of damage. ------------------- My opinions (ie, all of my posting here) are not my corporations. Nor should it be taken as such.
Obdazen	Posted - 2007.03.28 20:22:00 - [29] Originally by: goodby4u Edited by: goodby4u on 28/03/2007 17:23:10 Originally by: Obdazen Well, I've recently returned after a long time out. So you can consider me a noob. I'll be pvping, I'm minmatar, and I've decided to stick with (minmatar) frigs. For pvp: which is better? AF or Inty? AF's seem to be more tank oriented whereas inties are more tacklers, e-warfare types. Is it as simple as that? Or is there more to it? I'll usually be flying with a small gang 2-5 or so. I'm the kind of guy that likes to fill a niche, which is more useful? Thanks for any info. Rifter heres why: Fit it out the way you think it will be best for solo pvp and go find some targets,as you die modify your setup however you think it will work best for you,once youve mastered the ship take a good hard look at your ship's setup,then look at the setups on the forums and see if its like the af's tank or the interceptors tank. Actually, that's what I'm using now. I like it, but anything better would of course be nice. I think my current setup is definately more like a ceptor, it can't take hits, but it's fast and is a pretty decent tackler. It also deals some damage, so I'm not sure. I think I've pretty much decided to go with an interceptor at this point, specifically a stiletto for the mid slots.
VJ Maverick Caldari Maverick Specialized Services	Posted - 2007.03.28 20:44:00 - [30] Do both! Here is how: Option 1) Jaguar (The Fast AF) The Jag is probably the fastest AF out there and with very good DPS. The Jag is also a lot less vulnerable to Nos than other ships. With a good AB and skills, you can perma-run it at over 1km/s - enough of a speed tank to avoid most turret tracking. And the resists help out if and when you get hit. The only downside is two resistance holes as opposed to other AF's. You should plug one. Option 2) Taranis (The heavy hitting Inty) The Taranis's damage potential is simply staggering for a ship of that size. It is probably the slowest interceptor but still has enough speed to use it as its main tank. Also, the lowered sig radius combined with the speed should make for aship that very rarely gets hit. One damage control in the lows gives you a much needed resisance boost - very good for a Taranis - +60% to hull resistances and the ship is a hull tanker anyway. So there you go. Both these ships seem to bridge the gap between AF's and inties. The Jag is an AF with almost ceptor level speed. The Taranis is ceptor with close to AF damage. Take your pick.

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