EVE Search - The History of venal

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KIAPieman	Posted - 2003.12.23 20:43:00 - [1] The history of Venal By KIAPieman The history of Venal is a colourful one at best, many of the biggest ôshocksö that have happened in the Eve has happened right at our feet. This is a brief for all those interested in what has come before them in this region. Venal from my point of view has had at best 5 weeks of peace since KIA Corp joined in about August, the rest of it has been spent in a perpetual state of civil war or alliance/pirate faction war. This is because of our ideals that we hold and the fact that we have had such public exposure, it makes people harbour feelings for or against us, even if its nothing to do with them. This tale is from info I know 1st hand and info I have discovered through reading old posts and articles. If anything here is wrong please post any amendments as I want to be as correct as possible, please be polite as well, i have gone through the troble to write this and i will not apreciate anyone who tells me to "STFU n00b you know nothing" all i request is that people be civil with responces. Yes you may count this as PR, but the intention of this is purely for entertainment. The age of discovery. In the beginning Venal was a loose collection of free corps looking to make a living in 0.0 space. Before the VA there was a semblence of peace. Pirates would fly around and kill people when they wanted, and it was pretty much like the wild wild west. No cops, no one to call on for help, everyone for himself. But it was also a great time to be playing. You could take a couple frigs and go out to the belts in 4cfk and rack in some quick cash, or grab some miners and mine bist instead. 4cfk was the main trading hub back then, and everyone went there to buy stuff or to hunt and mine, and it was the place where you had to be careful because pirates went there too. Eventually an alliance of these corps formed the Venal alliance (VA). The fledgling VA grew with some names that are now very familiar and some that no longer exist. The VA was a semi-pirate alliance in the fact that pirates were allowed membership and would conduct operations in Tribute, Pure blind and Lonetrek. This was a happy time for the VA but it wouldnÆt last. TTI, the brainchild of Ragnar, was the 1st of the mega-corps in Eve, ôjoinedö the VA, purely for the Bistot rich belts. TTI ships started ploughing the space lanes to and from venal, further fattening the wallet of the corp. But the peace was about to be shatteredàà. Evolution began incursions into VA space to oust TTI from the ore rich region, hit and fade attacks were conducted and TTI eventually withdrew back to empire space and waited. Eventually TTI came back and fully joined the VA. It was boom time for the alliance, many many new corps had joined over the following weeks, some very prominent, some you may not have heard of, the likes of Jericho Faction, KIA Corp and a few others were readily accepted and enthusiastically jumped at the opportunities in venal. The Age of Strife A matter of a week into my corps full membership in the VA, a huge surprise attack was launched against Venal by the Fountain Alliance, led by Evolution they laid waste to ship after ship in yet more hit and fade operations. Many corps stared to feel the pinch and were not able to replace ships for combat. KIA Corp bore the brunt of the 1st weeks fighting, losing several cruisers in the 1st few days. Every victory was celebrated but they became fewer and fewer and hope began to fade away, it really looked like the VA would die that week, we didnÆt realise that we were more correct than we thought. Many people at this point started to voice concerns about TTIÆs involvement in the war, or to be more exact, its lack of involvement. Evolution had attacked to drive TTI from Venal, and we had been offered deals on ship production which, during wartime, were unattainable. Nobody could mine safely at this point, reportedly TTI were still mining up north but these reports were never proven. People started to get more vocal about lack of support from them and moral hit rock bottom. Then out of nowhere a unbelievable offer was made to Jade Constantine by the FA, if TTI and all pirate corps were expelled from Venal without exception the war would be over and they would accept the VAÆs rights to claim the region. An urgent vote was called for all the CEOÆs to attend, the motion was put forward and the corps voted to either keep fighting Evolution and let TTI and the pirates stay, or to let TTI leave for a protracted period and build up our forces to resist any future incursions. The votes were cast, a few corps voted to kick TTI for the time being (if I remember correctly, KIA Corp, Jericho Faction are 2 of them, I cant remember the rest) and the final result was 8 votes to 5, in favour of letting TTI stay and fighting on. Then probably one of the most famous lines in Eve so far was deliveredà.. in one fell swoop TTI alienated itself from all --------------------------------------------------------
KIAPieman Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2003.12.23 20:43:00 - [2] The history of Venal By KIAPieman The history of Venal is a colourful one at best, many of the biggest ôshocksö that have happened in the Eve has happened right at our feet. This is a brief for all those interested in what has come before them in this region. Venal from my point of view has had at best 5 weeks of peace since KIA Corp joined in about August, the rest of it has been spent in a perpetual state of civil war or alliance/pirate faction war. This is because of our ideals that we hold and the fact that we have had such public exposure, it makes people harbour feelings for or against us, even if its nothing to do with them. This tale is from info I know 1st hand and info I have discovered through reading old posts and articles. If anything here is wrong please post any amendments as I want to be as correct as possible, please be polite as well, i have gone through the troble to write this and i will not apreciate anyone who tells me to "STFU n00b you know nothing" all i request is that people be civil with responces. Yes you may count this as PR, but the intention of this is purely for entertainment. The age of discovery. In the beginning Venal was a loose collection of free corps looking to make a living in 0.0 space. Before the VA there was a semblence of peace. Pirates would fly around and kill people when they wanted, and it was pretty much like the wild wild west. No cops, no one to call on for help, everyone for himself. But it was also a great time to be playing. You could take a couple frigs and go out to the belts in 4cfk and rack in some quick cash, or grab some miners and mine bist instead. 4cfk was the main trading hub back then, and everyone went there to buy stuff or to hunt and mine, and it was the place where you had to be careful because pirates went there too. Eventually an alliance of these corps formed the Venal alliance (VA). The fledgling VA grew with some names that are now very familiar and some that no longer exist. The VA was a semi-pirate alliance in the fact that pirates were allowed membership and would conduct operations in Tribute, Pure blind and Lonetrek. This was a happy time for the VA but it wouldnÆt last. TTI, the brainchild of Ragnar, was the 1st of the mega-corps in Eve, ôjoinedö the VA, purely for the Bistot rich belts. TTI ships started ploughing the space lanes to and from venal, further fattening the wallet of the corp. But the peace was about to be shatteredàà. Evolution began incursions into VA space to oust TTI from the ore rich region, hit and fade attacks were conducted and TTI eventually withdrew back to empire space and waited. Eventually TTI came back and fully joined the VA. It was boom time for the alliance, many many new corps had joined over the following weeks, some very prominent, some you may not have heard of, the likes of Jericho Faction, KIA Corp and a few others were readily accepted and enthusiastically jumped at the opportunities in venal. The Age of Strife A matter of a week into my corps full membership in the VA, a huge surprise attack was launched against Venal by the Fountain Alliance, led by Evolution they laid waste to ship after ship in yet more hit and fade operations. Many corps stared to feel the pinch and were not able to replace ships for combat. KIA Corp bore the brunt of the 1st weeks fighting, losing several cruisers in the 1st few days. Every victory was celebrated but they became fewer and fewer and hope began to fade away, it really looked like the VA would die that week, we didnÆt realise that we were more correct than we thought. Many people at this point started to voice concerns about TTIÆs involvement in the war, or to be more exact, its lack of involvement. Evolution had attacked to drive TTI from Venal, and we had been offered deals on ship production which, during wartime, were unattainable. Nobody could mine safely at this point, reportedly TTI were still mining up north but these reports were never proven. People started to get more vocal about lack of support from them and moral hit rock bottom. Then out of nowhere a unbelievable offer was made to Jade Constantine by the FA, if TTI and all pirate corps were expelled from Venal without exception the war would be over and they would accept the VAÆs rights to claim the region. An urgent vote was called for all the CEOÆs to attend, the motion was put forward and the corps voted to either keep fighting Evolution and let TTI and the pirates stay, or to let TTI leave for a protracted period and build up our forces to resist any future incursions. The votes were cast, a few corps voted to kick TTI for the time being (if I remember correctly, KIA Corp, Jericho Faction are 2 of them, I cant remember the rest) and the final result was 8 votes to 5, in favour of letting TTI stay and fighting on. Then probably one of the most famous lines in Eve so far was deliveredà.. in one fell swoop TTI alienated itself from all --------------------------------------------------
KIAPieman	Posted - 2003.12.23 20:46:00 - [3] Edited by: KIAPieman on 23/12/2003 20:47:55 the corps that had pledged support to them in a democratic vote, because 5 corps had dared to vote against them they declared war on them and placed a bounty of 100 million on JadeÆs head paid in 5 million instalments per corpse. Immediately another swifter vote was called and its was unanimous, we were at war again. TTI then made a move which I will never understand, they invited M3g4 to join their Northern alliance, so along with Space invaders and Paladins of the red skull they had all the major pirates at that time. Calling themselves the Northern Alliance, they clamed Venal for their own uses and expected to sweep the remnants of the old VA away. Little did they know that hostilities had ceased with the FA and all the effort went into showing TTI what for. With a new found sense of vigour we managed to recover out losses and become stronger in the process, many messages of goodwill and offers of military support were passed to us, corporations with no real interest in venal before began to offer ships and equipment to the alliance. Hope was quickly rising, driven on by an Intense anger and hatred of the way TTI believed they could sweep the little corps under the carpet, well it didnÆt happen. After a few days the foundations had been laid, all it needed was for the 1st brick to be laid on the structure that would become the New Venal Alliance. Jade pooled all her resources sorting out the admin side whilst we fighters prepared for the impending offensive, the risks we would be taking were great, but failure would be a failure to the citizens of eve, it needed to be stopped there and thenà The great stand-off, it was like an old western, wit the NVA and the NA staring each other down, it was just a matter of time. Then M3G4 launched into the NVA with gusto, but something was different in this war, we were not fighting for someone elseÆs survival, we were fighting for our own, this is probably why in this war the NVA had some of its finest moments in combat. The war was taken to M3G4, we didnÆt sit back as many In the NA must have thought we would. Hit and fade attack were conducted everywhere and a steady pile of corpses was being built up in many hangers. After about 2 weeks of fighting the news I never expected to hear came out, M3G4 was dead, a shell of its former self, the self styled Biomass Cartel was created from the defecting members, who had true to pirate form, stolen everything from M3G4, the then left Venal space claming no interest in it. Smoked, the CEO of M3G4 seemed a broken but proud man, accepting defeat he left Venal for calmer waters vowing to change his image, and no doubt to get revenge on those who did him wrong. Seeing his allies falling or leaving and losing more and more confrontations, it finally must have dawned upon Ragnar what he had done and he decided to step down as CEO and hand control to GunnyP. Peace in our timeà. The end of the TTI war signalled a time of prosperity for the NVA, with the shipping lanes open again the rarer minerals in short supply were spread throughout Lonetrek again, and the corps in the NVA grew richer and richer, soon all the corps were mainly flying battleships, the NVA fleet was huge beyond belief. We were prosperous. Then we started to hear about rumours, CFS were calling us pirates, the CA had ambitions on Venal. A few of the NVA pushed to go on the offensive, to show people that the NVA is no walkover. We were called warmongers and griefers, told that why attack when we could do things diplomatically. A couple of members left due to this but it wasnÆt something new. If we had paid attention to it, we could have been a bit more prepared for what was to comeà. We were made aware of a Biomass Cartel fleet heading to NVA territory, forming a fleet in response we waited for them. Then a terrible secret was revealed. Terra Nova Corp, led by Hupa, defected just before Biomass jumped in, locking down battleships of friends and former allies, it was a wholesale slaughter. That moment lit the fuseà Biomass incursions became more and more regular and the NVA stepped up war production a notch. The war started to spread down through Pure Blind and into northern Lonetrek. Then one day the NVA made a fatal but necessary mistakeà A fleet of 20 + ships was dispatched to Obe to attack biomassÆ base of operations, then the startling truth was discovered, whist they were in Obe venal was open to a Biomass counter attack. The fleet turned about and headed back home. A huge blockade was established and the fleet waited. After several hours of tedious waiting, we had reports that biomass was about to jump, everything went quiet as people prepared to go full tilt onto the enemy, then looking at local i sat open jawed, 114 people in local, chatted filled then channels as pople weighed up the options available to us, we voted to stay, many hours of camping passed, many peop --------------------------------------------------------
KIAPieman Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2003.12.23 20:46:00 - [4] Edited by: KIAPieman on 23/12/2003 20:47:55 the corps that had pledged support to them in a democratic vote, because 5 corps had dared to vote against them they declared war on them and placed a bounty of 100 million on JadeÆs head paid in 5 million instalments per corpse. Immediately another swifter vote was called and its was unanimous, we were at war again. TTI then made a move which I will never understand, they invited M3g4 to join their Northern alliance, so along with Space invaders and Paladins of the red skull they had all the major pirates at that time. Calling themselves the Northern Alliance, they clamed Venal for their own uses and expected to sweep the remnants of the old VA away. Little did they know that hostilities had ceased with the FA and all the effort went into showing TTI what for. With a new found sense of vigour we managed to recover out losses and become stronger in the process, many messages of goodwill and offers of military support were passed to us, corporations with no real interest in venal before began to offer ships and equipment to the alliance. Hope was quickly rising, driven on by an Intense anger and hatred of the way TTI believed they could sweep the little corps under the carpet, well it didnÆt happen. After a few days the foundations had been laid, all it needed was for the 1st brick to be laid on the structure that would become the New Venal Alliance. Jade pooled all her resources sorting out the admin side whilst we fighters prepared for the impending offensive, the risks we would be taking were great, but failure would be a failure to the citizens of eve, it needed to be stopped there and thenà The great stand-off, it was like an old western, wit the NVA and the NA staring each other down, it was just a matter of time. Then M3G4 launched into the NVA with gusto, but something was different in this war, we were not fighting for someone elseÆs survival, we were fighting for our own, this is probably why in this war the NVA had some of its finest moments in combat. The war was taken to M3G4, we didnÆt sit back as many In the NA must have thought we would. Hit and fade attack were conducted everywhere and a steady pile of corpses was being built up in many hangers. After about 2 weeks of fighting the news I never expected to hear came out, M3G4 was dead, a shell of its former self, the self styled Biomass Cartel was created from the defecting members, who had true to pirate form, stolen everything from M3G4, the then left Venal space claming no interest in it. Smoked, the CEO of M3G4 seemed a broken but proud man, accepting defeat he left Venal for calmer waters vowing to change his image, and no doubt to get revenge on those who did him wrong. Seeing his allies falling or leaving and losing more and more confrontations, it finally must have dawned upon Ragnar what he had done and he decided to step down as CEO and hand control to GunnyP. Peace in our timeà. The end of the TTI war signalled a time of prosperity for the NVA, with the shipping lanes open again the rarer minerals in short supply were spread throughout Lonetrek again, and the corps in the NVA grew richer and richer, soon all the corps were mainly flying battleships, the NVA fleet was huge beyond belief. We were prosperous. Then we started to hear about rumours, CFS were calling us pirates, the CA had ambitions on Venal. A few of the NVA pushed to go on the offensive, to show people that the NVA is no walkover. We were called warmongers and griefers, told that why attack when we could do things diplomatically. A couple of members left due to this but it wasnÆt something new. If we had paid attention to it, we could have been a bit more prepared for what was to comeà. We were made aware of a Biomass Cartel fleet heading to NVA territory, forming a fleet in response we waited for them. Then a terrible secret was revealed. Terra Nova Corp, led by Hupa, defected just before Biomass jumped in, locking down battleships of friends and former allies, it was a wholesale slaughter. That moment lit the fuseà Biomass incursions became more and more regular and the NVA stepped up war production a notch. The war started to spread down through Pure Blind and into northern Lonetrek. Then one day the NVA made a fatal but necessary mistakeà A fleet of 20 + ships was dispatched to Obe to attack biomassÆ base of operations, then the startling truth was discovered, whist they were in Obe venal was open to a Biomass counter attack. The fleet turned about and headed back home. A huge blockade was established and the fleet waited. After several hours of tedious waiting, we had reports that biomass was about to jump, everything went quiet as people prepared to go full tilt onto the enemy, then looking at local i sat open jawed, 114 people in local, chatted filled then channels as pople weighed up the options available to us, we voted to stay, many hours of camping passed, many peop --------------------------------------------------
KIAPieman	Posted - 2003.12.23 20:47:00 - [5] the offensive, finaly the fleet commander ordered the fleet to pull back the next system and jump back in, hopefully catching biomass unawares. Unfortunately it failed, many ships were destroyed and the NVA suffered its worst ever defeat. But times change, people have learned, and the NVA is now far far stronger than it ever was. Hope springs eternalà This is what has led us to this point, the NVA is a strong regional power and is growing stronger, with the likes of Rona, Cyberdyne, and Oberon, and with the leadership qualities of Jericho Faction and the unshakeable spirit of KIA Corp along with the myriad of other corps bringing their own special qualities, we have a varied and well working bunch who I think would be willing to die (in game!!) to keep our alliance going. I hope this entertains some, informs others, and bring back a few memories of times past, but we have to look towards the future. To quote a famous advertising sloganàà THE FUTUREÆS BRIGHT, THE FUTUREÆS VENAL. --------------------------------------------------------
KIAPieman Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2003.12.23 20:47:00 - [6] the offensive, finaly the fleet commander ordered the fleet to pull back the next system and jump back in, hopefully catching biomass unawares. Unfortunately it failed, many ships were destroyed and the NVA suffered its worst ever defeat. But times change, people have learned, and the NVA is now far far stronger than it ever was. Hope springs eternalà This is what has led us to this point, the NVA is a strong regional power and is growing stronger, with the likes of Rona, Cyberdyne, and Oberon, and with the leadership qualities of Jericho Faction and the unshakeable spirit of KIA Corp along with the myriad of other corps bringing their own special qualities, we have a varied and well working bunch who I think would be willing to die (in game!!) to keep our alliance going. I hope this entertains some, informs others, and bring back a few memories of times past, but we have to look towards the future. To quote a famous advertising sloganàà THE FUTUREÆS BRIGHT, THE FUTUREÆS VENAL. --------------------------------------------------
Admiral IceBlock	Posted - 2003.12.23 20:54:00 - [7] interesting... "We brake for nobody"
Admiral IceBlock Caldari Northern Intelligence SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2003.12.23 20:54:00 - [8] interesting... Support POS Overhaul - Read it NOW!
Li ShangYin	Posted - 2003.12.23 21:17:00 - [9] let's see now : TTI isn't the first megacorp in EVE, Endless propably hold that title with 300+ members at one point(that's pre alpha for you kiddos out there). TTI's presence in Venal also started earlier than what you describe, TTI and its ally Xanadu were in Venal from around late may/early june, when Xanadu left because NPC ratings were on for a while TTI stayed back. VA at that point was more reminiscient of a local pub than an alliance, there was little in terms of rules, laws, regulations and coordination, just a bunch of corps in the area chatting together and trying to copy what Stain and other regions were starting to do. To this day the alliance channels remind one of swiss cheese when looking at what kind of secure venues they provide for the members... The legality of the group of people who did that rather funny vote is also one that could be discussed at lenght, there was afterall no set record on how such a council should be divided, how it's power should be shared or even what and who could call it together. While quite a few corps complained and whined in later days of the conflicts about the lack of TTI support noone actually asked us for any support at any point in time. There was noone who said let's do this guys, there was noone who asked for a billion or two to provide funding for lost ships, heck how could such a funding even have been controlled when there was nothing that the VA was built on but a couple chat rooms where some corp people who hang out in the same general area of space were in. As you said, some corps said they don't mind having TTI present, however those same corps that TTI then declared war on did state quite clearly that they had no confidence or intrest in having TTI present anymore. Why should a 200 man corp want to stick around with a couple minor corps who decide to vote them out? Why should such a vote be made to begin with? One for all, all for one right? Oh wait, that only applies unless we might kick out one to save the rest. And no, I'm not gonna go into the suicidal strategical motives that a successful vote would have created, those should also be fairly obvious to anyone with a decentsized brain that is functioning. Just ask yourself this, you are at war with a strong enemy, they offer you a simple choice, if you remove the best fighters and the richest people from your alliance you will be left alone, now what possible ending would a successful vote have? ___________________________________ A spring day at the edge of the world. On the edge of the world once more the day slants. The oriole cries, as though it were its own tears Which damp even the topmost blossoms on the tree. -- Li Shang-yin, Exile, ninth century A.D.
Li ShangYin Chung Kuo	Posted - 2003.12.23 21:17:00 - [10] let's see now : TTI isn't the first megacorp in EVE, Endless propably hold that title with 300+ members at one point(that's pre alpha for you kiddos out there). TTI's presence in Venal also started earlier than what you describe, TTI and its ally Xanadu were in Venal from around late may/early june, when Xanadu left because NPC ratings were on for a while TTI stayed back. VA at that point was more reminiscient of a local pub than an alliance, there was little in terms of rules, laws, regulations and coordination, just a bunch of corps in the area chatting together and trying to copy what Stain and other regions were starting to do. To this day the alliance channels remind one of swiss cheese when looking at what kind of secure venues they provide for the members... The legality of the group of people who did that rather funny vote is also one that could be discussed at lenght, there was afterall no set record on how such a council should be divided, how it's power should be shared or even what and who could call it together. While quite a few corps complained and whined in later days of the conflicts about the lack of TTI support noone actually asked us for any support at any point in time. There was noone who said let's do this guys, there was noone who asked for a billion or two to provide funding for lost ships, heck how could such a funding even have been controlled when there was nothing that the VA was built on but a couple chat rooms where some corp people who hang out in the same general area of space were in. As you said, some corps said they don't mind having TTI present, however those same corps that TTI then declared war on did state quite clearly that they had no confidence or intrest in having TTI present anymore. Why should a 200 man corp want to stick around with a couple minor corps who decide to vote them out? Why should such a vote be made to begin with? One for all, all for one right? Oh wait, that only applies unless we might kick out one to save the rest. And no, I'm not gonna go into the suicidal strategical motives that a successful vote would have created, those should also be fairly obvious to anyone with a decentsized brain that is functioning. Just ask yourself this, you are at war with a strong enemy, they offer you a simple choice, if you remove the best fighters and the richest people from your alliance you will be left alone, now what possible ending would a successful vote have? ___________________________________ A spring day at the edge of the world. On the edge of the world once more the day slants. The oriole cries, as though it were its own tears Which damp even the topmost blossoms on the tree. -- Li Shang-yin, Exile, ninth century A.D.
Viceroy	Posted - 2003.12.23 21:25:00 - [11] Isnt this like the 3rd venal history thread? -
Viceroy Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2003.12.23 21:25:00 - [12] Isnt this like the 3rd venal history thread?
KIAInkZ	Posted - 2003.12.23 21:29:00 - [13] Venal has the best history though :) --- Forums/Killboard - http://www.kia-corp.co.uk
KIAInkZ Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2003.12.23 21:29:00 - [14] Venal has the best history though :) --- Forums/Killboard - http://www.kia-corp.co.uk
Sun Wu	Posted - 2003.12.23 21:33:00 - [15] What older brother Li is refering to is a simple strategic form of causing tension within the enemy lines through misinformation. The move by the attacking forces to try to create a gap within the Venal forces is a classic example to study. The analysis made by the attackers in this case shows that venal just like any other society is built around certain groups of people. To a great extent in venal's case pirates fill out the position of the best fighters within the alliance, while TTI certainly at that point was one of the strongest financial entitites within the whole of EVE. As you can tell the names of the other corps who were present are forgotten by people who even to this day try to survive in Venal. These same nameless people, lets call them the masses, consisting of minor corps aswell as corps like jericho who at that point were insignificant from a military and monetary viewpoint are also where the attackers decide to strike. Now what happens is obviously known, Jade runs along the path painted by the attackers and indeed tries to cause the very thing they wanted to happen, she tries to get the alliance to vote out its prime moneymakers and military might. Mission accomplished, the defenders are not only thrown into disarray, she also manages to take away what trust might have existed within the alliance prior to that point. And above all, she has won the war for the attackers since there from that point on was not even a potential source of financial wealth for the defense from TTI, nor was there any military help from said pirates. If we analyse the remaining question and its potential outcomes, what if the vote had succeeded? The result would have widely been what it is now, Venal would even then have fallen at that same point in time, as there is no obvious safe way aside from not letting that vote even come into existence. Voting out the fighters and the money simply would have been suicide, why would anyone attacking a mineralrich region suddenly stop after the regions prime defenders and potential financial support have just dissapeared from said alliance, to be placed in a situation of quasi civil war within the region, while the same region is also trying to defend. That is all for now, as we know Venal is still a warzone, as are the regions close to it, piracy is still commonday and the crossways out of empire into the regions neighboring and leading into venal have been under pirate control whenever I have pointed my scanners that way. ________________________________
Sun Wu Caldari Evolution	Posted - 2003.12.23 21:33:00 - [16] What older brother Li is refering to is a simple strategic form of causing tension within the enemy lines through misinformation. The move by the attacking forces to try to create a gap within the Venal forces is a classic example to study. The analysis made by the attackers in this case shows that venal just like any other society is built around certain groups of people. To a great extent in venal's case pirates fill out the position of the best fighters within the alliance, while TTI certainly at that point was one of the strongest financial entitites within the whole of EVE. As you can tell the names of the other corps who were present are forgotten by people who even to this day try to survive in Venal. These same nameless people, lets call them the masses, consisting of minor corps aswell as corps like jericho who at that point were insignificant from a military and monetary viewpoint are also where the attackers decide to strike. Now what happens is obviously known, Jade runs along the path painted by the attackers and indeed tries to cause the very thing they wanted to happen, she tries to get the alliance to vote out its prime moneymakers and military might. Mission accomplished, the defenders are not only thrown into disarray, she also manages to take away what trust might have existed within the alliance prior to that point. And above all, she has won the war for the attackers since there from that point on was not even a potential source of financial wealth for the defense from TTI, nor was there any military help from said pirates. If we analyse the remaining question and its potential outcomes, what if the vote had succeeded? The result would have widely been what it is now, Venal would even then have fallen at that same point in time, as there is no obvious safe way aside from not letting that vote even come into existence. Voting out the fighters and the money simply would have been suicide, why would anyone attacking a mineralrich region suddenly stop after the regions prime defenders and potential financial support have just dissapeared from said alliance, to be placed in a situation of quasi civil war within the region, while the same region is also trying to defend. That is all for now, as we know Venal is still a warzone, as are the regions close to it, piracy is still commonday and the crossways out of empire into the regions neighboring and leading into venal have been under pirate control whenever I have pointed my scanners that way. ________________________________
Lefevre	Posted - 2003.12.23 21:58:00 - [17] Edited by: Lefevre on 23/12/2003 22:01:22 Hi all.. for those of you who do not know me I am Lefevre. I was a member of the VA and a member of the pirate corp Andras Pandaemonium. Andras Pandaemonium was a small pirate corp dedicated to having fun while being pirates. Most of us were in cruisers so we were one of the more powerful corps in VA. First of all I want to say good work Pieman. It must have taken some time to gather all that information. I think there is a small mistake here: Quote: Then out of nowhere a unbelievable offer was made to Jade Constantine by the FA, if TTI and all pirate corps were expelled from Venal without exception the war would be over and they would accept the VAÆs rights to claim the region. If I remember right the only corps to be expelled was TTI and SPVD. Us, the smaller pirate corps could still stay in VA but we would not be allowed to pirate in certain regions (I can't remember what regions). Other then that I think it's very accurate.. As a final word.. Merry Christmas New Venal Alliance : ) Teddybears
Lefevre Caldari Temptation inc.	Posted - 2003.12.23 21:58:00 - [18] Edited by: Lefevre on 23/12/2003 22:01:22 Hi all.. for those of you who do not know me I am Lefevre. I was a member of the VA and a member of the pirate corp Andras Pandaemonium. Andras Pandaemonium was a small pirate corp dedicated to having fun while being pirates. Most of us were in cruisers so we were one of the more powerful corps in VA. First of all I want to say good work Pieman. It must have taken some time to gather all that information. I think there is a small mistake here: Quote: Then out of nowhere a unbelievable offer was made to Jade Constantine by the FA, if TTI and all pirate corps were expelled from Venal without exception the war would be over and they would accept the VAÆs rights to claim the region. If I remember right the only corps to be expelled was TTI and SPVD. Us, the smaller pirate corps could still stay in VA but we would not be allowed to pirate in certain regions (I can't remember what regions). Other then that I think it's very accurate.. As a final word.. Merry Christmas New Venal Alliance : )
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2003.12.23 21:59:00 - [19] Edited by: Jade Constantine on 23/12/2003 22:00:10 Dream on Sun Wu, your analysis is burdened with a child's simplicity. Your reasoning is borrowed third hand from a storybook, and furthermore, m'dear, you think to fly on gilded wings in the face of established fact. Not going to happen. Far from being the military "might" and financial "muscle" of the VA; the former TTI was an albatross around its neck, with CEO Ragnar dabbling in power politics and assassinations and then hiding behind a shield of VA corps to escape the consequences of his actions. When asked to flex financial muscle in defense of the alliance Taggart refused. Offering only to make laughable BYOM deals to fighters in a warzone. In terms of active participation Taggart was relatively small. And consistantly hindered by rather cowardly military leadership in the form of Roark/Ragnar. Taggart brought the storm to the VA. And refused to pay the piper. It was no surprise that a confidence vote in some form was heard. I asked Ragnar to match my personal investment in proportion of corporation size. He refused, and prefered to threaten VA corps with unspecified "bad things" if they refused to vote his way. This all came out in the faithful council meeting... But for all that, the VA chose to fight to the last with Taggart a member. All choose to honour that vote. Except Ragnar. He declared the council and vote void and powerless and declared pogram and formation of the Piratical alliance. The rest is history. And none of those facts are open to question given the massive weight of factual, chat-log, and anecdotal evidence backing them up. Time for you to go back to school Sun Wu. Love and peace JF Public Forum
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2003.12.23 21:59:00 - [20] Edited by: Jade Constantine on 23/12/2003 22:00:10 Dream on Sun Wu, your analysis is burdened with a child's simplicity. Your reasoning is borrowed third hand from a storybook, and furthermore, m'dear, you think to fly on gilded wings in the face of established fact. Not going to happen. Far from being the military "might" and financial "muscle" of the VA; the former TTI was an albatross around its neck, with CEO Ragnar dabbling in power politics and assassinations and then hiding behind a shield of VA corps to escape the consequences of his actions. When asked to flex financial muscle in defense of the alliance Taggart refused. Offering only to make laughable BYOM deals to fighters in a warzone. In terms of active participation Taggart was relatively small. And consistantly hindered by rather cowardly military leadership in the form of Roark/Ragnar. Taggart brought the storm to the VA. And refused to pay the piper. It was no surprise that a confidence vote in some form was heard. I asked Ragnar to match my personal investment in proportion of corporation size. He refused, and prefered to threaten VA corps with unspecified "bad things" if they refused to vote his way. This all came out in the faithful council meeting... But for all that, the VA chose to fight to the last with Taggart a member. All choose to honour that vote. Except Ragnar. He declared the council and vote void and powerless and declared pogram and formation of the Piratical alliance. The rest is history. And none of those facts are open to question given the massive weight of factual, chat-log, and anecdotal evidence backing them up. Time for you to go back to school Sun Wu. Love and peace JF Public Forum
KIAPieman	Posted - 2003.12.23 22:12:00 - [21] Edited by: KIAPieman on 23/12/2003 22:15:14 Edited by: KIAPieman on 23/12/2003 22:13:28 Li ShangYin, i am posting the facts that i know to the best of my knowledge, i did it for purly entertainment value, if you dotn like it then why post? and to any faults you picked out, as i said TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE Lefevre: thanks for that info, ill rewrite the relevent parts --------------------------------------------------------
KIAPieman Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2003.12.23 22:12:00 - [22] Edited by: KIAPieman on 23/12/2003 22:15:14 Edited by: KIAPieman on 23/12/2003 22:13:28 Li ShangYin, i am posting the facts that i know to the best of my knowledge, i did it for purly entertainment value, if you dotn like it then why post? and to any faults you picked out, as i said TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE Lefevre: thanks for that info, ill rewrite the relevent parts --------------------------------------------------
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2003.12.23 22:17:00 - [23] Pieman, Li ShangYin is one of the ex-taggart "intelligensia" (sic) that refused to wake up and smell the quafe at the close of the venal civil war. As a result, historical revisionism and hokey political analysis has become his forte. Doubtless he has convinced himself that "iron duke" Ragnar, was leading 20 battleship taggart defense armadas against Evolution at H-PA29 every night for a month before being betrayed by the oily VA council (or some such rot). Word to the wise; don't waste too much breath on debating with the true believers, faith (even profoundly misplaced) has a way of allow men to see strange vistas of alternative realities. Let's allow Li ShangYin to walk across the hot coals of his own folly in quiet respect for the mentally deranged. Love and peace JF Public Forum
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2003.12.23 22:17:00 - [24] Pieman, Li ShangYin is one of the ex-taggart "intelligensia" (sic) that refused to wake up and smell the quafe at the close of the venal civil war. As a result, historical revisionism and hokey political analysis has become his forte. Doubtless he has convinced himself that "iron duke" Ragnar, was leading 20 battleship taggart defense armadas against Evolution at H-PA29 every night for a month before being betrayed by the oily VA council (or some such rot). Word to the wise; don't waste too much breath on debating with the true believers, faith (even profoundly misplaced) has a way of allow men to see strange vistas of alternative realities. Let's allow Li ShangYin to walk across the hot coals of his own folly in quiet respect for the mentally deranged. Love and peace JF Public Forum
Viceroy	Posted - 2003.12.23 22:58:00 - [25] Jade has been awakened, run for cover! -
Viceroy Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2003.12.23 22:58:00 - [26] Jade has been awakened, run for cover!
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2003.12.23 23:53:00 - [27] ;) JF Public Forum
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2003.12.23 23:53:00 - [28] ;) JF Public Forum
KIAPieman	Posted - 2003.12.24 01:40:00 - [29] im gunna give this a good look over and re write today whilst im at work, i wont have anythign else to do....... saying that i should get to sleep. --------------------------------------------------------
KIAPieman Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2003.12.24 01:40:00 - [30] im gunna give this a good look over and re write today whilst im at work, i wont have anythign else to do....... saying that i should get to sleep. --------------------------------------------------

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