EVE Search - The History of venal

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Jacob Molari	Posted - 2003.12.24 14:08:00 - [61] One more thing, Pieman, you need to add another chapter: The abandonment of Venal: Having suffered serious losses to the Forsaken Alliance, the NVA decided to stay close to home, and jealously guard its boarders until "Castor" arrived. But castor was no friend of the NVA. With enormous losses to the NVA at the hands of the guristas pirates, losses exceeding those inflicted by the Forsaken Alliance, the NVA fled Venal to empire space until ships can be built, and minerals reserves repopulated. Venal is now... wide open. End Abandonment. Venal is empty now. Just for S&Gs, I took a shuttle up there. I was not challenged the whole freaking way. Venal has been abandoned. The front door of Venal is open. A sign in the window says "Vacancy, inquire inside".
Jacob Molari Gallente CRICE Corporation	Posted - 2003.12.24 14:08:00 - [62] One more thing, Pieman, you need to add another chapter: The abandonment of Venal: Having suffered serious losses to the Forsaken Alliance, the NVA decided to stay close to home, and jealously guard its boarders until "Castor" arrived. But castor was no friend of the NVA. With enormous losses to the NVA at the hands of the guristas pirates, losses exceeding those inflicted by the Forsaken Alliance, the NVA fled Venal to empire space until ships can be built, and minerals reserves repopulated. Venal is now... wide open. End Abandonment. Venal is empty now. Just for S&Gs, I took a shuttle up there. I was not challenged the whole freaking way. Venal has been abandoned. The front door of Venal is open. A sign in the window says "Vacancy, inquire inside".
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2003.12.24 14:30:00 - [63] Li ShangYin, the reason I disparage your intellectual capabilities and blind fervour for pro-taggart revisionism is (for one thing) that you can't help but contradict your argument totally in two short sentences. Earlier you said... Quote: "... noone actually asked us for any support at any point in time." While in the later text you admit. Quote: ... which brings us to you asking for more support. Ragnar denied it, as you are well aware of, and for a simple reason. Ummm, the only "simple" thing here m'dear, is the ease with which its still possible to get you ex taggart hardliners to contradict yourselves and stray arguments into outright blatent lying and falsehood. How is the neutral reader supposed to give credence to anything else you say when you have boldly asserted one thing (that you now admit was a lie) ... only to go on to boldly assert more spurious "facts". You sir, are a mock. As for the rest. Its clearly known that my proposal for provisional funding was based on headcount. I did this because I wished Taggart to "put up or shut up" on the issue of their inflated member count. Ragnar/Roark (the same person) had been using the member count to veto policy in the VA for quite some time. I thought it reasonable to give Taggart the chance to pay for the increased influence they thought to claim. Of course, if Ragnar had admitted then that you were only 30-40 actives and thus only wanted about twice the voting power of Jericho for twice the funding. There would have been no problem. Of Sun's analysis, its not a question of not liking it, but of laughing in the face of its founding premise. TTI was neither a financial or military power in the VA, due mainly to a cowardly war strategy from Ragnar/Roark and a mean-fisted economic stance from Ragnar/Roark. Sure, there were some heroic fighters like Anla Shock and MarkA. But they were lone pilots. Financially, the only people who ever saw the benefit were Ragnar's pet killers. As we have discussed already, Taggart refused to back the alliance with financial commitment in proportion to the rest. In comparison "little jericho" was more economically significant to the VA, we at least supported the alliance with our isk. Quote: Those same military pirates that you were kicking out then are still at war with you are they not? Well yes, but that was fairly obvious, but for the record, ... are there such things as "non-military" pirates monsieur? Love and peace JF Public Forum
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2003.12.24 14:30:00 - [64] Li ShangYin, the reason I disparage your intellectual capabilities and blind fervour for pro-taggart revisionism is (for one thing) that you can't help but contradict your argument totally in two short sentences. Earlier you said... Quote: "... noone actually asked us for any support at any point in time." While in the later text you admit. Quote: ... which brings us to you asking for more support. Ragnar denied it, as you are well aware of, and for a simple reason. Ummm, the only "simple" thing here m'dear, is the ease with which its still possible to get you ex taggart hardliners to contradict yourselves and stray arguments into outright blatent lying and falsehood. How is the neutral reader supposed to give credence to anything else you say when you have boldly asserted one thing (that you now admit was a lie) ... only to go on to boldly assert more spurious "facts". You sir, are a mock. As for the rest. Its clearly known that my proposal for provisional funding was based on headcount. I did this because I wished Taggart to "put up or shut up" on the issue of their inflated member count. Ragnar/Roark (the same person) had been using the member count to veto policy in the VA for quite some time. I thought it reasonable to give Taggart the chance to pay for the increased influence they thought to claim. Of course, if Ragnar had admitted then that you were only 30-40 actives and thus only wanted about twice the voting power of Jericho for twice the funding. There would have been no problem. Of Sun's analysis, its not a question of not liking it, but of laughing in the face of its founding premise. TTI was neither a financial or military power in the VA, due mainly to a cowardly war strategy from Ragnar/Roark and a mean-fisted economic stance from Ragnar/Roark. Sure, there were some heroic fighters like Anla Shock and MarkA. But they were lone pilots. Financially, the only people who ever saw the benefit were Ragnar's pet killers. As we have discussed already, Taggart refused to back the alliance with financial commitment in proportion to the rest. In comparison "little jericho" was more economically significant to the VA, we at least supported the alliance with our isk. Quote: Those same military pirates that you were kicking out then are still at war with you are they not? Well yes, but that was fairly obvious, but for the record, ... are there such things as "non-military" pirates monsieur? Love and peace JF Public Forum
KIAPieman	Posted - 2003.12.24 14:52:00 - [65] Quote: One side note. As far as Smoked getting betrayed, it was the other way around. I wasn't in the game at the time, however, I was watching my good friend Techie Zero play, and was fully aware of what was happening in game. Smoked had been caught selling stuff on e-bay, rares and isk belonging to the corp. He had been warned to never do it again. A sting was set up, and sure enough, smoked bit and sold more stuff on e-bay, this time to a corp member. So, just about everyone in M3G4 decided that Smoked had to go, but what could they do? M3G4 was his corp. In a brilliant move, Biomass was formed, and the corp hangers looted before Smoked could either sell or destroy the goods. So, Bio went its own way, and M3G4 went down to 4 members. I joined Bio shortly after that... Ya gotta love all the drama! thanks for that info, as i stated im going on info readily available to me, im in the process of a re-write at the moment and will post my chages asap. ------------------------------------------ with regards to TTI and their involvement in the war, ITS IN THE PAST. as i stated in my history, and i quote Quote: Many people at this point started to voice concerns about TTIÆs involvement in the war, or to be more exact, its lack of involvement. Evolution had attacked to drive TTI from Venal, and we had been offered deals on ship production which, during wartime, were unattainable. if you re-read it i say that many, but not all. stop trying to make this a flame fest please as its making me feel like saying whats the point, im trying to add somthing different to the community and all people are concerned about is still the old "im right your wrong" mentality, im sorry but its old hat to me. i am hoping to be able to produce this into a timeline much akin to the ones on the eve website. but it will be difficult as dates become blurred as time passes. --------------------------------------------------------
KIAPieman Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2003.12.24 14:52:00 - [66] Quote: One side note. As far as Smoked getting betrayed, it was the other way around. I wasn't in the game at the time, however, I was watching my good friend Techie Zero play, and was fully aware of what was happening in game. Smoked had been caught selling stuff on e-bay, rares and isk belonging to the corp. He had been warned to never do it again. A sting was set up, and sure enough, smoked bit and sold more stuff on e-bay, this time to a corp member. So, just about everyone in M3G4 decided that Smoked had to go, but what could they do? M3G4 was his corp. In a brilliant move, Biomass was formed, and the corp hangers looted before Smoked could either sell or destroy the goods. So, Bio went its own way, and M3G4 went down to 4 members. I joined Bio shortly after that... Ya gotta love all the drama! thanks for that info, as i stated im going on info readily available to me, im in the process of a re-write at the moment and will post my chages asap. ------------------------------------------ with regards to TTI and their involvement in the war, ITS IN THE PAST. as i stated in my history, and i quote Quote: Many people at this point started to voice concerns about TTIÆs involvement in the war, or to be more exact, its lack of involvement. Evolution had attacked to drive TTI from Venal, and we had been offered deals on ship production which, during wartime, were unattainable. if you re-read it i say that many, but not all. stop trying to make this a flame fest please as its making me feel like saying whats the point, im trying to add somthing different to the community and all people are concerned about is still the old "im right your wrong" mentality, im sorry but its old hat to me. i am hoping to be able to produce this into a timeline much akin to the ones on the eve website. but it will be difficult as dates become blurred as time passes. --------------------------------------------------
KIAPieman	Posted - 2003.12.24 14:56:00 - [67] Quote: One more thing, Pieman, you need to add another chapter: The abandonment of Venal: Having suffered serious losses to the Forsaken Alliance, the NVA decided to stay close to home, and jealously guard its boarders until "Castor" arrived. But castor was no friend of the NVA. With enormous losses to the NVA at the hands of the guristas pirates, losses exceeding those inflicted by the Forsaken Alliance, the NVA fled Venal to empire space until ships can be built, and minerals reserves repopulated. Venal is now... wide open. End Abandonment. Venal is empty now. Just for S&Gs, I took a shuttle up there. I was not challenged the whole freaking way. Venal has been abandoned. The front door of Venal is open. A sign in the window says "Vacancy, inquire inside". lol we will have to see what chapter is written next. it may be: Pieman gets p**sed off and decides to not to bother writing any more --------------------------------------------------------
KIAPieman Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2003.12.24 14:56:00 - [68] Quote: One more thing, Pieman, you need to add another chapter: The abandonment of Venal: Having suffered serious losses to the Forsaken Alliance, the NVA decided to stay close to home, and jealously guard its boarders until "Castor" arrived. But castor was no friend of the NVA. With enormous losses to the NVA at the hands of the guristas pirates, losses exceeding those inflicted by the Forsaken Alliance, the NVA fled Venal to empire space until ships can be built, and minerals reserves repopulated. Venal is now... wide open. End Abandonment. Venal is empty now. Just for S&Gs, I took a shuttle up there. I was not challenged the whole freaking way. Venal has been abandoned. The front door of Venal is open. A sign in the window says "Vacancy, inquire inside". lol we will have to see what chapter is written next. it may be: Pieman gets p**sed off and decides to not to bother writing any more --------------------------------------------------
Jacob Molari	Posted - 2003.12.24 15:42:00 - [69] Pie, Just some healthy ribbing, your account, by all accounts, is accurate. Keep it up Pieman, don't get disheartened.
Jacob Molari Gallente CRICE Corporation	Posted - 2003.12.24 15:42:00 - [70] Pie, Just some healthy ribbing, your account, by all accounts, is accurate. Keep it up Pieman, don't get disheartened.
crice	Posted - 2003.12.24 16:02:00 - [71] Quote: Pie, Just some healthy ribbing, your account, by all accounts, is accurate. Keep it up Pieman, don't get disheartened. The Funny thing is I don't even want Venal. HAHAAAHAHA. Merry Christmas! Crice
crice Caldari CRICE Corporation	Posted - 2003.12.24 16:02:00 - [72] Quote: Pie, Just some healthy ribbing, your account, by all accounts, is accurate. Keep it up Pieman, don't get disheartened. The Funny thing is I don't even want Venal. HAHAAAHAHA. Merry Christmas! Crice
Toulak	Posted - 2003.12.24 16:15:00 - [73] Quote: Venal has been abandoned. It has? Funny, I do recall lookin on the map yesterday, with the setting "pilots in space" on and well there was quite a few dots about in Venal, Oh wait if your right, then, they musta been the NPCs, that have apparently been ganking hundreds of NVA battleships, we're all doomed.. Back to reality, nice post Pieman keep up the good work. Merry christmas
Toulak Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2003.12.24 16:15:00 - [74] Quote: Venal has been abandoned. It has? Funny, I do recall lookin on the map yesterday, with the setting "pilots in space" on and well there was quite a few dots about in Venal, Oh wait if your right, then, they musta been the NPCs, that have apparently been ganking hundreds of NVA battleships, we're all doomed.. Back to reality, nice post Pieman keep up the good work. Merry christmas
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2003.12.24 16:37:00 - [75] Yep, never fear Pieman, the proportion of complainers to silent readers who actually appreciate people who tell the history of things is mercifully small in reality. You'll always get a little nonsense, it shows you are being taken seriously. Anyhow, merry christmas everyone on both sides, its been a fun year to date. Lets get sloshed and have a ball and eat too much ;) Love and peace JF Public Forum
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2003.12.24 16:37:00 - [76] Yep, never fear Pieman, the proportion of complainers to silent readers who actually appreciate people who tell the history of things is mercifully small in reality. You'll always get a little nonsense, it shows you are being taken seriously. Anyhow, merry christmas everyone on both sides, its been a fun year to date. Lets get sloshed and have a ball and eat too much ;) Love and peace JF Public Forum
Decairn	Posted - 2003.12.24 16:40:00 - [77] Edited by: Decairn on 24/12/2003 16:41:30 So I get my 10 days free EVE back, and what do I find... Jade still on a non-sensical rant for pages and pages on end. Wish there was a blocker for her input in threads, it would save pages of wasted space. To set the timeline of TTI in Venal straight, TTI and Xanadu moved to Venal on the day of the move of high-end ores out of Lonetrek. We were (for the most part) alone, other corps didn't start to come out for a few weeks after, the Venal Alliance was quite late to the bistot party. --edit - snip dupe sig out-- --Decairn
Decairn Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2003.12.24 16:40:00 - [78] Edited by: Decairn on 24/12/2003 16:41:30 So I get my 10 days free EVE back, and what do I find... Jade still on a non-sensical rant for pages and pages on end. Wish there was a blocker for her input in threads, it would save pages of wasted space. To set the timeline of TTI in Venal straight, TTI and Xanadu moved to Venal on the day of the move of high-end ores out of Lonetrek. We were (for the most part) alone, other corps didn't start to come out for a few weeks after, the Venal Alliance was quite late to the bistot party. --edit - snip dupe sig out-- --Decairn
Bobby Wilson	Posted - 2003.12.24 17:18:00 - [79] Edited by: Bobby Wilson on 24/12/2003 17:43:55 Edited by: Bobby Wilson on 24/12/2003 17:19:14 Quote: One more thing, Pieman, you need to add another chapter: The abandonment of Venal: Having suffered serious losses to the Forsaken Alliance, the NVA decided to stay close to home, and jealously guard its boarders until "Castor" arrived. But castor was no friend of the NVA. With enormous losses to the NVA at the hands of the guristas pirates, losses exceeding those inflicted by the Forsaken Alliance, the NVA fled Venal to empire space until ships can be built, and minerals reserves repopulated. Venal is now... wide open. End Abandonment. Venal is empty now. Just for S&Gs, I took a shuttle up there. I was not challenged the whole freaking way. Venal has been abandoned. The front door of Venal is open. A sign in the window says "Vacancy, inquire inside". BAHAHAHAHAHA. Typical Biomass. You lot all think showing up in Venal at midnight or even 1 AM Pacific time is taking over Venal, and post accordingly. However we all know, including reports from our spy Diesel invited into Biomass (we miss her by the way, after screwing you guys over nothing could top that and she's headed off to a different MMPORG) that you lot come in that late at night intentionally, KNOWING the majority of the NVA are European and are in bed as it is 5-7 AM where they live. It's also pretty well known how afraid you lot are of some of the core PvP strength of our alliance, europeans in CoC, Bladerunners, and RONA-KIA (sorry, leaving many other worthies out in this). Try flying a shuttle into Venal about 5 PM game time on a Saturday. Somebody will be happy to put your frozen corpse in a hanger. BW Edit: Shuttle hell. Try flying a tanked raven into Venal at that time and day of the week. Same result. Originally by: Selim Cool, congrats. Oh, stupid idea by the way.
Bobby Wilson Gallente	Posted - 2003.12.24 17:18:00 - [80] Edited by: Bobby Wilson on 24/12/2003 17:43:55 Edited by: Bobby Wilson on 24/12/2003 17:19:14 Quote: One more thing, Pieman, you need to add another chapter: The abandonment of Venal: Having suffered serious losses to the Forsaken Alliance, the NVA decided to stay close to home, and jealously guard its boarders until "Castor" arrived. But castor was no friend of the NVA. With enormous losses to the NVA at the hands of the guristas pirates, losses exceeding those inflicted by the Forsaken Alliance, the NVA fled Venal to empire space until ships can be built, and minerals reserves repopulated. Venal is now... wide open. End Abandonment. Venal is empty now. Just for S&Gs, I took a shuttle up there. I was not challenged the whole freaking way. Venal has been abandoned. The front door of Venal is open. A sign in the window says "Vacancy, inquire inside". BAHAHAHAHAHA. Typical Biomass. You lot all think showing up in Venal at midnight or even 1 AM Pacific time is taking over Venal, and post accordingly. However we all know, including reports from our spy Diesel invited into Biomass (we miss her by the way, after screwing you guys over nothing could top that and she's headed off to a different MMPORG) that you lot come in that late at night intentionally, KNOWING the majority of the NVA are European and are in bed as it is 5-7 AM where they live. It's also pretty well known how afraid you lot are of some of the core PvP strength of our alliance, europeans in CoC, Bladerunners, and RONA-KIA (sorry, leaving many other worthies out in this). Try flying a shuttle into Venal about 5 PM game time on a Saturday. Somebody will be happy to put your frozen corpse in a hanger. BW Edit: Shuttle hell. Try flying a tanked raven into Venal at that time and day of the week. Same result.
Havana	Posted - 2003.12.24 17:25:00 - [81] First, I feel the need to state the obvious - that there are many layers of truth surrounding the Venal War. I dare say not one person, not even the staring participants in this particular drama, has a grasp of the whole truth. Each person/faction has a little piece of the truth û and I suspect certain actors may have a rude awakening if they discover certain truths that are still hidden. Who are the pawns and who are the puppet master? And surely someone is watching the watcher? [OOC: and this is what makes Eve so fascinating to some, and so frustrating to would be Eve historian.] I can assure everyone I am but a minor bystander, but by happenstance I do hold a piece of truth that the Kool-Aid drinking Chung Kuo brothers apparently donÆt have. So I will shed some light here for the entertainment of the audience. But I caution even now I am bounded to reveal only but a layer of the truth as known to me. The rest can only be hinted atà as the play is not yet done and certain actors are still behind the curtainà So letÆs begin: Quote: I'm not gonna go into the suicidal strategical motives that a successful vote would have created, those should also be fairly obvious to anyone with a decentsized brain that is functioning. Just ask yourself this, you are at war with a strong enemy, they offer you a simple choice, if you remove the best fighters and the richest people from your alliance you will be left alone, now what possible ending would a successful vote have? Quote: à why would anyone attacking a mineralrich region suddenly stop after the regions prime defenders and potential financial support have just dissapeared from said allianceà To this very day, apparently more than a few (ex-) TTI members still suffer under a fundamental misconception of what the initial Venal War is about... Try this: The war was never about VA. The war was entirely about TTI and particularly about Ragnar. I can not tell if it is naivetÚ or arrogance, some TTI members (similar to citizens of certain old world superpower I can think of) simply can not comprehend that their beloved corporation and its leader are loathed and even hated by a significant number of Eve denizens. The war as declared by EvolutionÆs CEO was over after the ônight of treacheryö. EVOL was out to get TTI. TTI was ousted from VA. No more war with VA. To understand this, one should know EVOL fought a hit and run war against TTI in Venal prior to the forming of the Fountain Alliance. There is little reason to doubt the fight is about old grudges, a continuation of the EVOL/TTI war started in beta. Suffice to say that TTIÆs politics, and in particular their bullying of the free press (INO) during the beta era, are not viewed in a positive light by a number of influential leaders. The conflict seem to have ended when EVOL migrated to Fountain and, along with others, founded the FA. The war with TTI was rekindled, however, some months later when a number of damning evidences surfaced - suggesting TTI had put out a hidden contract on the heads of FA members. A sample of the evidences, including chatlogs and a screenshot of Derek[TTI] offering 25M ISK per Xan and EVOL b-ship destroyed was posted on Gal-Net. I think it is fair to say that while many Eve denizens are swayed, many other have doubts. Without question what were post could not be considered proof, as chat logs can easily be fabricated, and the posted screenshot of DerekÆs evemail was dated a few days after the war had already been declared. I do know screenshots of members of at least two well known pirate corps accepting payments from TTI for kills prior to the war declaration exists. These screenshots were never released to the public, obviously in order to protect the sources. I also happen to know that certain media organization is in possession of some of these screenshots. Perhaps one day the newsies will choose to write a story about them. Will they be any closer to uncovering the truth? An obscured article published a while back appear to indicate there someone might have inkling. There are layers of truth, only time will tellà But I digressed - all this is not to rehash or justify EVOLÆs reason for war. As the enigmatic EVOL is know to proclaim, their reasons are their own û I am here, to point to the consistency of a course of actions û that VA is never the target of EVOLÆs fight, it is always TTI. [cont...]
Havana	Posted - 2003.12.24 17:25:00 - [82] It is indeed ironic, that to their credit, VA, out of a sense of honor, chooses to stand behind TTI, a member of their alliance -while many TTI members, brainwashed or otherwise, think the war is about pirates. One wealthy TTI member even stated in public that he feel no obligation to fight ôVAÆs warö as TTI is not a corp, but a loose alliance of individuals and that whatever relationship existed between TTI and VA is best characterized as a ômeaninglessö NAP. As later events point out, this is not the 1st time the former TTI choose to fight war by proxy. Yes, other FA and empire corps joined the Venal war for varying reasons, and killing pirates are certainly a reasonable justification. I mean seriously, JadeÆs valiant effort to paint them as frontier ôcaptain-ownersö not withstanding, everyone know half the corps in VA harbored pirates and outlaws. Further adding confusion, at the start of the pre-FA conflict û EVOL used disinformation and managed to convince Ragnar that they are in Venal to fight VA. I have no idea why people not caught on that in one of the chatlog posted later, Ragnar was caught offering to betray VA and to take out a VA ship for EVOL. If, as speculated by some and spun by TTI leaders and apologists at the time, that the war is about territorial ambition, one would think the logical course of action following the collapsed of VA and the pending Civil War, that EVOL/FA would not let up the war effort and/or would be in a position to exploit the weaken [N]VA. As the audience can tell by the above quotes, to this day, the ex-TTI Chung Kuo members are still stuck in their self-deception. What in fact transpired point rather to the opposite - many FA corps sent ships to help defend Venal in their fight against TTI and their pirate alliance. There were even talks internally within FA to open Fountain temporary to VA members. And after the job is done and TTI no longer post a threat, FA bid NVA good tiding and return to Fountain. Venal is for the NVA. No bistot were mined by FA pilots, no station burned, and no virgin was taken. Most of the time, you have to take what people say on Gal-Net with a large dose of cynicism, but when nothings seem to make sense, re-examine the events and taking things at face value might just point to a version of reality you can believe in. There are also untold stories, I believe, on the sequence of events that lead to the FAÆs offer to end the war. Many bitter TTI members, and Ragnar, pointed the finger squarely at Jade Constantine. Less often mentioned is the spectacle of apparently unobstructed movement of Cyberdyne pilots deep in Fountain space a few days before. The secret some people keptà Was Ragnar really a crazed maniacs, or was he drugged by his personal physician? What is the text of that infamous speech on the night of treachery again? There is a name there. A hint? Doubleganger? To a certain Eve Part-Timer: What was that commotion I hear on the executive floor at the TTI HQ a few days prior to RagnarÆs sudden ôvoluntaryö resignation? Something about an ultimatum and a group resignation? Do tellà Alas, it is happening again. [Twin Peaks music] Anyone recall the stated reasons of the CA war. Why is Stain in turmoil? Is RUS really back? Is Stavros really Stavros? Will agents of Chaos run amok in Eve? Or will Eve becomes a sea of Tranquility? Denizens of Eve - It is time to walk to walk the sea. It is the end of the age of Kali. It is time to bear witness to age of destruction. Are you prepared for the coming of Shiva, the destroyer? It will begin, again. [OOC disclaimer: Most of what I said is on the public record if you bother to dig. And no, I am not an EVOLÆs alt.]
Havana	Posted - 2003.12.24 17:25:00 - [83] First, I feel the need to state the obvious - that there are many layers of truth surrounding the Venal War. I dare say not one person, not even the staring participants in this particular drama, has a grasp of the whole truth. Each person/faction has a little piece of the truth û and I suspect certain actors may have a rude awakening if they discover certain truths that are still hidden. Who are the pawns and who are the puppet master? And surely someone is watching the watcher? [OOC: and this is what makes Eve so fascinating to some, and so frustrating to would be Eve historian.] I can assure everyone I am but a minor bystander, but by happenstance I do hold a piece of truth that the Kool-Aid drinking Chung Kuo brothers apparently donÆt have. So I will shed some light here for the entertainment of the audience. But I caution even now I am bounded to reveal only but a layer of the truth as known to me. The rest can only be hinted atà as the play is not yet done and certain actors are still behind the curtainà So letÆs begin: Quote: I'm not gonna go into the suicidal strategical motives that a successful vote would have created, those should also be fairly obvious to anyone with a decentsized brain that is functioning. Just ask yourself this, you are at war with a strong enemy, they offer you a simple choice, if you remove the best fighters and the richest people from your alliance you will be left alone, now what possible ending would a successful vote have? Quote: à why would anyone attacking a mineralrich region suddenly stop after the regions prime defenders and potential financial support have just dissapeared from said allianceà To this very day, apparently more than a few (ex-) TTI members still suffer under a fundamental misconception of what the initial Venal War is about... Try this: The war was never about VA. The war was entirely about TTI and particularly about Ragnar. I can not tell if it is naivetT or arrogance, some TTI members (similar to citizens of certain old world superpower I can think of) simply can not comprehend that their beloved corporation and its leader are loathed and even hated by a significant number of Eve denizens. The war as declared by EvolutionÆs CEO was over after the ônight of treacheryö. EVOL was out to get TTI. TTI was ousted from VA. No more war with VA. To understand this, one should know EVOL fought a hit and run war against TTI in Venal prior to the forming of the Fountain Alliance. There is little reason to doubt the fight is about old grudges, a continuation of the EVOL/TTI war started in beta. Suffice to say that TTIÆs politics, and in particular their bullying of the free press (INO) during the beta era, are not viewed in a positive light by a number of influential leaders. The conflict seem to have ended when EVOL migrated to Fountain and, along with others, founded the FA. The war with TTI was rekindled, however, some months later when a number of damning evidences surfaced - suggesting TTI had put out a hidden contract on the heads of FA members. A sample of the evidences, including chatlogs and a screenshot of Derek[TTI] offering 25M ISK per Xan and EVOL b-ship destroyed was posted on Gal-Net. I think it is fair to say that while many Eve denizens are swayed, many other have doubts. Without question what were post could not be considered proof, as chat logs can easily be fabricated, and the posted screenshot of DerekÆs evemail was dated a few days after the war had already been declared. I do know screenshots of members of at least two well known pirate corps accepting payments from TTI for kills prior to the war declaration exists. These screenshots were never released to the public, obviously in order to protect the sources. I also happen to know that certain media organization is in possession of some of these screenshots. Perhaps one day the newsies will choose to write a story about them. Will they be any closer to uncovering the truth? An obscured article published a while back appear to indicate there someone might have inkling. There are layers of truth, only time will tellà But I digressed - all this is not to rehash or justify EVOLÆs reason for war. As the enigmatic EVOL is know to proclaim, their reasons are their own û I am here, to point to the consistency of a course of actions û that VA is never the target of EVOLÆs fight, it is always TTI. [cont...]
Havana	Posted - 2003.12.24 17:25:00 - [84] It is indeed ironic, that to their credit, VA, out of a sense of honor, chooses to stand behind TTI, a member of their alliance -while many TTI members, brainwashed or otherwise, think the war is about pirates. One wealthy TTI member even stated in public that he feel no obligation to fight ôVAÆs warö as TTI is not a corp, but a loose alliance of individuals and that whatever relationship existed between TTI and VA is best characterized as a ômeaninglessö NAP. As later events point out, this is not the 1st time the former TTI choose to fight war by proxy. Yes, other FA and empire corps joined the Venal war for varying reasons, and killing pirates are certainly a reasonable justification. I mean seriously, JadeÆs valiant effort to paint them as frontier ôcaptain-ownersö not withstanding, everyone know half the corps in VA harbored pirates and outlaws. Further adding confusion, at the start of the pre-FA conflict û EVOL used disinformation and managed to convince Ragnar that they are in Venal to fight VA. I have no idea why people not caught on that in one of the chatlog posted later, Ragnar was caught offering to betray VA and to take out a VA ship for EVOL. If, as speculated by some and spun by TTI leaders and apologists at the time, that the war is about territorial ambition, one would think the logical course of action following the collapsed of VA and the pending Civil War, that EVOL/FA would not let up the war effort and/or would be in a position to exploit the weaken [N]VA. As the audience can tell by the above quotes, to this day, the ex-TTI Chung Kuo members are still stuck in their self-deception. What in fact transpired point rather to the opposite - many FA corps sent ships to help defend Venal in their fight against TTI and their pirate alliance. There were even talks internally within FA to open Fountain temporary to VA members. And after the job is done and TTI no longer post a threat, FA bid NVA good tiding and return to Fountain. Venal is for the NVA. No bistot were mined by FA pilots, no station burned, and no virgin was taken. Most of the time, you have to take what people say on Gal-Net with a large dose of cynicism, but when nothings seem to make sense, re-examine the events and taking things at face value might just point to a version of reality you can believe in. There are also untold stories, I believe, on the sequence of events that lead to the FAÆs offer to end the war. Many bitter TTI members, and Ragnar, pointed the finger squarely at Jade Constantine. Less often mentioned is the spectacle of apparently unobstructed movement of Cyberdyne pilots deep in Fountain space a few days before. The secret some people keptà Was Ragnar really a crazed maniacs, or was he drugged by his personal physician? What is the text of that infamous speech on the night of treachery again? There is a name there. A hint? Doubleganger? To a certain Eve Part-Timer: What was that commotion I hear on the executive floor at the TTI HQ a few days prior to RagnarÆs sudden ôvoluntaryö resignation? Something about an ultimatum and a group resignation? Do tellà Alas, it is happening again. [Twin Peaks music] Anyone recall the stated reasons of the CA war. Why is Stain in turmoil? Is RUS really back? Is Stavros really Stavros? Will agents of Chaos run amok in Eve? Or will Eve becomes a sea of Tranquility? Denizens of Eve - It is time to walk to walk the sea. It is the end of the age of Kali. It is time to bear witness to age of destruction. Are you prepared for the coming of Shiva, the destroyer? It will begin, again. [OOC disclaimer: Most of what I said is on the public record if you bother to dig. And no, I am not an EVOLÆs alt.]
KIAInkZ	Posted - 2003.12.24 17:34:00 - [85] The history of venal from my point of view KIA move to venal. We fly around killing non venal ships and having fun for a couple of weeks, then evol come to venal and destroy most of our corp. I stay in venal with a couple of the others that still have ships, and continue chasing evol around to no avail. A lot of venal had left due to losses, and there were a few left fighting. The pirates just stayed in empire pirating like they did most of the time anyway, and it was the corps that operated heavily in venal, like ourselves that lost out. A council meeting was called (being new to the allience we assumed this had been the way things worked all along) and the idea of tti laying low for a bit to get evol off our backs was brought about. We thought it was a great idea, it would allow us to get our ships back before preparing for battle again. I sat in on 'the council meeting' and the vote was that tti would stay in venal and we would all fight, which everyone was fine with. The fact that the vote was never to kick tti out in the first place seems to be lost by both sides. Maybe we were nieve enough to believe that's what the plan was and everyone would be fine with it, and there were no hidden agendas. Anyway, Ragnar declared war on everyone and we all ended up fighting each other anyway. We were stuck on one side or the other, or go back to empire space. Going back to empire wasn't really an option for us. It was all a bit of a rollercoaster ride that our corp didn't really have much say in, but we came out of it ok in the end. --- Forums/Killboard - http://www.kia-corp.co.uk
KIAInkZ Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2003.12.24 17:34:00 - [86] The history of venal from my point of view KIA move to venal. We fly around killing non venal ships and having fun for a couple of weeks, then evol come to venal and destroy most of our corp. I stay in venal with a couple of the others that still have ships, and continue chasing evol around to no avail. A lot of venal had left due to losses, and there were a few left fighting. The pirates just stayed in empire pirating like they did most of the time anyway, and it was the corps that operated heavily in venal, like ourselves that lost out. A council meeting was called (being new to the allience we assumed this had been the way things worked all along) and the idea of tti laying low for a bit to get evol off our backs was brought about. We thought it was a great idea, it would allow us to get our ships back before preparing for battle again. I sat in on 'the council meeting' and the vote was that tti would stay in venal and we would all fight, which everyone was fine with. The fact that the vote was never to kick tti out in the first place seems to be lost by both sides. Maybe we were nieve enough to believe that's what the plan was and everyone would be fine with it, and there were no hidden agendas. Anyway, Ragnar declared war on everyone and we all ended up fighting each other anyway. We were stuck on one side or the other, or go back to empire space. Going back to empire wasn't really an option for us. It was all a bit of a rollercoaster ride that our corp didn't really have much say in, but we came out of it ok in the end. --- Forums/Killboard - http://www.kia-corp.co.uk
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2003.12.24 17:56:00 - [87] Now that, lady Havana, is quality political analysis. Well done. There are of course a lot of interesting slants to the whole matter yet unrevealed ... some of them will likely never reach the light of day. But you are pretty much on the money that old TTI's primarily talent was self delusion. For my part I've told it more or less until I am blue in the face; I declared blood feud on Ragnar from a sense of outrage at his betrayal of the VA that voted to back him, and in self-defence against the murder bounty he placed on my head from wanton spite. It was never about power and presige. It was always about stabbing a tyrant in the face. End of the day, I am well satisfied. And FA went from being war enemies to honoured allies. Moral of the story being. A foe you can trust is better than a deceitful ally. PS. I really didn't know that Ragnar tried to sellout the VA to EVO at an early stage ... wow, that would have made superb war-propaganda at the time ... ah well. Love and peace JF Public Forum
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2003.12.24 17:56:00 - [88] Now that, lady Havana, is quality political analysis. Well done. There are of course a lot of interesting slants to the whole matter yet unrevealed ... some of them will likely never reach the light of day. But you are pretty much on the money that old TTI's primarily talent was self delusion. For my part I've told it more or less until I am blue in the face; I declared blood feud on Ragnar from a sense of outrage at his betrayal of the VA that voted to back him, and in self-defence against the murder bounty he placed on my head from wanton spite. It was never about power and presige. It was always about stabbing a tyrant in the face. End of the day, I am well satisfied. And FA went from being war enemies to honoured allies. Moral of the story being. A foe you can trust is better than a deceitful ally. PS. I really didn't know that Ragnar tried to sellout the VA to EVO at an early stage ... wow, that would have made superb war-propaganda at the time ... ah well. Love and peace JF Public Forum
crice	Posted - 2003.12.24 18:25:00 - [89] Quote: The history of venal from my point of view KIA move to venal. We fly around killing non venal ships and having fun for a couple of weeks, then evol come to venal and destroy most of our corp. I stay in venal with a couple of the others that still have ships, and continue chasing evol around to no avail. A lot of venal had left due to losses, and there were a few left fighting. The pirates just stayed in empire pirating like they did most of the time anyway, and it was the corps that operated heavily in venal, like ourselves that lost out. A council meeting was called (being new to the allience we assumed this had been the way things worked all along) and the idea of tti laying low for a bit to get evol off our backs was brought about. We thought it was a great idea, it would allow us to get our ships back before preparing for battle again. I sat in on 'the council meeting' and the vote was that tti would stay in venal and we would all fight, which everyone was fine with. The fact that the vote was never to kick tti out in the first place seems to be lost by both sides. Maybe we were nieve enough to believe that's what the plan was and everyone would be fine with it, and there were no hidden agendas. Anyway, Ragnar declared war on everyone and we all ended up fighting each other anyway. We were stuck on one side or the other, or go back to empire space. Going back to empire wasn't really an option for us. It was all a bit of a rollercoaster ride that our corp didn't really have much say in, but we came out of it ok in the end. KIA? Why are you still in the NVA? What value to they bring to the table for you? This is just a question. Crice
crice Caldari CRICE Corporation	Posted - 2003.12.24 18:25:00 - [90] Quote: The history of venal from my point of view KIA move to venal. We fly around killing non venal ships and having fun for a couple of weeks, then evol come to venal and destroy most of our corp. I stay in venal with a couple of the others that still have ships, and continue chasing evol around to no avail. A lot of venal had left due to losses, and there were a few left fighting. The pirates just stayed in empire pirating like they did most of the time anyway, and it was the corps that operated heavily in venal, like ourselves that lost out. A council meeting was called (being new to the allience we assumed this had been the way things worked all along) and the idea of tti laying low for a bit to get evol off our backs was brought about. We thought it was a great idea, it would allow us to get our ships back before preparing for battle again. I sat in on 'the council meeting' and the vote was that tti would stay in venal and we would all fight, which everyone was fine with. The fact that the vote was never to kick tti out in the first place seems to be lost by both sides. Maybe we were nieve enough to believe that's what the plan was and everyone would be fine with it, and there were no hidden agendas. Anyway, Ragnar declared war on everyone and we all ended up fighting each other anyway. We were stuck on one side or the other, or go back to empire space. Going back to empire wasn't really an option for us. It was all a bit of a rollercoaster ride that our corp didn't really have much say in, but we came out of it ok in the end. KIA? Why are you still in the NVA? What value to they bring to the table for you? This is just a question. Crice

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