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Navy Caracal, are there any in pvp?

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Morreia The Celestial Element	Posted - 2007.03.30 23:05:00 - [31] Oh yea btw, after fitting a rack of 7 425mmIIs the mega has over 2000pg left over.
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.30 23:06:00 - [32] Originally by: Ryysa If i am fighting a 20 man gang at a gate, and you warp in at 140km, I will: 1. See high velocity on the right column of my overview. 2. See distance from you on my overview. And if we are flying a fast ship gang, if I see a sniper bs warp in, it's like GUYS FREE KILL GOGOGOGO. Originally by: Fluffernator no, I flamed your alliance because earlier you were saying 10 on 1 odds. Conviently this is the way the privateers fight. They either extremely out gun what they fight or extremely out number. Privateers dont fight capable opponents, I think most can agree with that. 1 sniper comes in and your gang jumps the sniper. Trust me, with similar numbers snipers are very very effective. Go back to school, kid. N.F.F. Recruitment
Fluffernator	Posted - 2007.03.30 23:07:00 - [33] Yes your right, small scale combat sniping is not so great. I pvp in fleets on a daily basis and rack up kills becuase I shoot whoever is primary in a huuuuge radius. Even when someone tries to tackle me, they have to deal with my mates, which is not pleasent. Meh, it works for what I want it too. The Caldari navy caracal would no question be a better ship to fly in these sort of engagements, so is the caldari navy raven. The question you have to ask yourself though is are you willing to accept when you loose it, cause you will.
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Swarm R i s e	Posted - 2007.03.30 23:14:00 - [34] check into the Gila. i think it would be right up your alley and its better than navy caracal imo. same price (maybe a bit less) similar ability, and sweet paint scheme. dont listen to the nubtards in here trying to give you every reason not to do it, or outlining redicoulous scenarios in which you die. nothing is more fun (in my book) than pvping in your sunday best! its classy and you'd be suprised the attention you will receive (ya gotta love target rich environments!)
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.30 23:15:00 - [35] Originally by: Fluffernator Yes your right, small scale combat sniping is not so great. I pvp in fleets on a daily basis and rack up kills becuase I shoot whoever is primary in a huuuuge radius. Even when someone tries to tackle me, they have to deal with my mates, which is not pleasent. Meh, it works for what I want it too. The Caldari navy caracal would no question be a better ship to fly in these sort of engagements, so is the caldari navy raven. The question you have to ask yourself though is are you willing to accept when you loose it, cause you will. Finally... I guess you failed to realize that i was talking the entire time about small engagements. I gave an example which you obviously misunderstood. I can highlight it again. If we are fighting with 4 people a 10 man "blob" at a gate with a fast ship gang (1x crow, 1x hugin, 1x sleipnir+gang mod, 1x vagabond). Then if the crow sees a sniper warp in he will instinctively tackle it as soon as possible, and the entire gang will mwd over to the sniper and gank him, since the people at the gate can't follow if they are not in fast ships. Fleet engagements are different, and tackling in fleet engagements these days is a LOT better done by interdictors than interceptors, because you can make a lot more people stuck in place with one ship and don't have to remain in vulnerable range. Agree that Navy Caracal > Caracal. And about the losing part, the best thing you can do with a faction ship is tank it as much as humanly possible. Especially a gimmick ship like the navy caracal. You will always be primary, and if you can manage to tank a lot, they might waste loads of time shooting you and then changing target because they can't do enough dps. Also, 100km missile spamming is not very useful in pvp, when someone spams missiles from 100, i feel like i am a lvl4 mission and i am being farmed. N.F.F. Recruitment
Fluffernator	Posted - 2007.03.30 23:17:00 - [36] no ryssa, what you failed to realize was I was talking about large scale warfare the entire time. You say "sniping has no pvp use" I said you were wrong and gave you a use. Im glad you just agreed with me that it does have a place. In real battles, fleet battles in 0.0. Heck, you get a good tackler, it can be extremely useful in small battles as well. But in general, with 10 on 1 odds like the privateers are infamous for, your right, its not that great.
Morreia The Celestial Element	Posted - 2007.03.30 23:20:00 - [37] Either way the tackler reaches target. Someone else kills tackler or the target NOSes it. Target warps to new snipe point to start the carnage again.
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.30 23:22:00 - [38] Edited by: Ryysa on 30/03/2007 23:21:37 Originally by: Fluffernator no ryssa, what you failed to realize was I was talking about large scale warfare the entire time. You say "sniping has no pvp use" I said you were wrong and gave you a use. Im glad you just agreed with me that it does have a place. In real battles, fleet battles in 0.0. Heck, you get a good tackler, it can be extremely useful in small battles as well. But in general, with 10 on 1 odds like the privateers are infamous for, your right, its not that great. I don't see what it has to do with 10v1 odds and privateers. I get majority of my kills in 0.0, after noob alliances try to blob our 3-4 man gang and get killed terribly. And i described to you exactly how we get 50% Of our kills. We are fighting their blob, then someone warps to the fight on 100, we tackle him, we gank him, simple. Most of the time heavily outnumbered upto 10:1. I guess you just log out when you are outnumbered 10:1, I try to separate the blob and kill their tacklers and do as much damage as possible. Fleet battles are boring as hell, I've been FC and done 100v100 fleet combat enough to know that it's not my cup of tea. The only one in 100v100 battle who has to think is the FC, everyone else STFU on ts, and hit f1-f8 on primary. Then at the end you say "gf" or "pwned" and go to bed thinking you are so awesome and got so much skill. Well, I think it doesn't involve skill [besides the fc]. If you like fleetbattles in eve, it's fine. But i wouldn't call fleet battles "real battles". Small scale combat is where it is at for me, heavily outnumbered fights with odds that you would ** your pants with. Originally by:** Morreia Either way the tackler reaches target. Someone else kills tackler or the target NOSes it. Target warps to new snipe point to start the carnage again. Uhm, if target has 30km nos (haven't met 1 single sniping bs that had yet) or if enemy has lots of fast ships. You obviously haven't flown in a gang before where the LOWEST speed is 5km/s. You start to see eve in a new way - try it someday :) The only negative part is, that unless you have some cloaked EW, you run like hell when you see rapier/hugin or die terribly :D N.F.F. Recruitment
Morreia The Celestial Element	Posted - 2007.03.30 23:25:00 - [39] Likewise apart from those odds are usually me vs many instead of my gang versus many so i suppose i just used to surviving. I had lost of experience in not dying .
Fluffernator	Posted - 2007.03.30 23:26:00 - [40] well, all I can say to that is bring a privateer gang into our territory and see what happens. you wont like the results. We have had a few privateers in out territory, and trust me, they went down easily. 0.0 is not yalls bag, and you know it. In fact your alliance is advertised as disrupting empire life for any alliance/corp someone doesnt like, so I doubt you spend much time in 0.0. Its extremely rare to see a priv somewhere below .4
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.30 23:27:00 - [41] Originally by: Morreia Likewise apart from those odds are usually me vs many instead of my gang versus many so i suppose i just used to surviving. Doesn't matter, I solo a lot too, and I enjoy soloing, because if you screw up you can't blame anyone else but yourself. N.F.F. Recruitment
Morreia The Celestial Element	Posted - 2007.03.30 23:27:00 - [42] In reference to the fast gang. Again been there, done that, got the t-shirt on mail order.
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.30 23:32:00 - [43] Originally by: Morreia In reference to the fast gang. Again been there, done that, got the t-shirt on mail order. In that case you should know what I am talking about. N.F.F. Recruitment
Morreia The Celestial Element	Posted - 2007.03.30 23:33:00 - [44] Originally by: Ryysa Originally by: Morreia In reference to the fast gang. Again been there, done that, got the t-shirt on mail order. In that case you should know what I am talking about. Yea, if the whole gang is fasted a lone sniper is stuffed. I thought you mean just 1 or 2 tacklers to start off with.
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.30 23:36:00 - [45] Originally by: Morreia Originally by: Ryysa Originally by: Morreia In reference to the fast gang. Again been there, done that, got the t-shirt on mail order. In that case you should know what I am talking about. Yea, if the whole gang is fasted a lone sniper is stuffed. I thought you mean just 1 or 2 tacklers to start off with. I don't mean a lone sniper. I mean an entire fast gang fighting at a spot with a slow gang, and then that slow gang has a sniper warping in as support. The sniper will get tackled and the slow gang will be unable to assist him in any way, just watch him die and get looted. Hope you know what I mean now. Ofc if it's gang with 20 snipers then it's different. N.F.F. Recruitment
Merin Ryskin FinFleet Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.03.30 23:46:00 - [46] Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 30/03/2007 23:42:36 Originally by: Ryysa Originally by: Merin Ryskin Besides, this is just silly. You're comparing a full faction-fitted interceptor with billions in implants AND gang-mates to a single 100 million ISK cruiser. Even if for some reason I warp in unaware, all you've proven is that if you spend enough money and bring enough friends you can win pretty much any fight. Take away your blob of friends and all you'll manage to do is scramble me and watch as I go AFK and passive tank your Crow until downtime (or more likely, just log off and laugh as you can't even kill me in 15 minutes). If I am solo I will probably fly vagabond. And true, comparing multi-billion isk setups is out of line, I just compare to what I am used to flying. And I can say that with the introduction of snake implants 1 year ago, sniping and distances in general have become of a lot less importance in smaller scale combat - which is very nice. So now we raise the price tag even more! Good job spending several billion ISK to make a 100 million ISK cruiser warp away! Yes, we all know implants are horribly broken, but that doesn't change my point: that the Navy Caracal is a safer investment than any other faction cruiser, because its superior range allows it to have a near-100% chance of escaping a fight. Originally by: Ryysa Edited by: Ryysa on 30/03/2007 23:35:30 Originally by: Morreia Originally by: Ryysa Originally by: Morreia In reference to the fast gang. Again been there, done that, got the t-shirt on mail order. In that case you should know what I am talking about. Yea, if the whole gang is fasted a lone sniper is stuffed. I thought you mean just 1 or 2 tacklers to start off with. I don't mean a lone sniper. I mean an entire fast gang fighting at a spot with a slow gang, and then that slow gang has a sniper warping in as support. The sniper will get tackled and the slow gang will be unable to assist him in any way, just watch him die and get looted. Hope you know what I mean now. Ofc if it's gang with 20 snipers then it's different. P.S. I think what happened to this thread can be summed up quite well with this image: Ok, lets use a little common sense here: why the hell is a sniper warping in when the FC has announced that you have a speed-based gang? Especially a single sniper, with the gang unable to provide support to each other (good luck trying that against a gang capable of mutual support, as you tackle one sniper you fly into optimal of the others)?
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.30 23:55:00 - [47] Don't ask me, but that's exactly what happens half the time. It's because people are stupid and make mistakes. And spamming missiles from 100km is not hugely effective. You want to have a good balance between effectiveness and safety. I'd say a Gila would be more effective than a navy caracal. Missiles from 100km are not very good in realistic pvp situations, i hope we both can agree on that. N.F.F. Recruitment
Ratkinson Thelnium	Posted - 2007.03.31 01:29:00 - [48] Edited by: Ratkinson Thelnium on 31/03/2007 01:26:56 AS FOR THE DISCUSSION ABOUT THE NAVY CARACAL... I think if you have the money to throw away, there's no reason not to take it into PVP. I would imagine that the Caracal is more suited to PvE but I'm sure the Caracal's capabilities would be awesome in a gang. Edit: hmm... I diddn't realise you had started talking about the caracal again, I got board of the bickering and replied after the first page .
welsh wizard 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.03.31 01:33:00 - [49] Although I don't exactly condone Ryysas abusive as hell attitude he is right Fluffernator. I don't care what you fly, you won't hit a 11km/s Interceptor V Crow piloted by a competent pilot in anything. He could probably get away with a 10 degree angle of approach on you, thats about 10 seconds on your spot at 140km. Maybe if you fly a Sleipnir with 3 TC II's and damage, an Eagle won't stand a chance, it may be able to warp out though.
Vaeldan Athargan	Posted - 2007.03.31 10:43:00 - [50] How about this, to prove ONE of you wrong? You two meet up and go toe-to-toe. Put up or shut up. Then post the footage so we can sit back and give respect.
Captain Crimson Caldari CoreTech Industries	Posted - 2007.03.31 10:55:00 - [51] Edited by: Captain Crimson on 31/03/2007 10:51:45 Gila does solo better, but i think a navy caracal in a gang could be very nasty. Oh yes. Shame gila setups are a bit rare on the forums, but i saw a thread about them a while back. Marvelous little ship. Shame about half this thread has been wasted by ryysa. I'm not going to comment, but take it another thread. Originally by: Tuxford I have already expressed my personal opinion on this and it was very positive (something about happy in the pants).
Fluffernator	Posted - 2007.03.31 17:27:00 - [52] Well ok welsh, I've hit interceptors closing on me at insane speeds for full damage before. Its really quite in the ships capabilities, but you don't have to believe me. I know it for a fact becuase of the numerous times I have done it.
eXtas BURN EDEN Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2007.03.31 18:47:00 - [53] Originally by: Fluffernator Well ok welsh, I've hit interceptors closing on me at insane speeds for full damage before. Its really quite in the ships capabilities, but you don't have to believe me. I know it for a fact becuase of the numerous times I have done it. that must have been some noob ceptors, warp your eagle or whatever 150km from my ceptor and you will be scrambled before u manage to warp out, and no way u gona hit me
welsh wizard 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.04.01 01:10:00 - [54] Originally by: Fluffernator Well ok welsh, I've hit interceptors closing on me at insane speeds for full damage before. Its really quite in the ships capabilities, but you don't have to believe me. I know it for a fact becuase of the numerous times I have done it. Flying directly at you?
Nether Haze	Posted - 2007.04.01 12:40:00 - [55] IBTL Imo =/. This thread has turned into "Mine is bigger than yours" sausage fest.
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2007.04.01 13:09:00 - [56] alright first of all Ryssa I don't know why you're saying everyone loses their arguments and whatnot I totally agree with them, come with your crow to some sys on tq I'll come alone in a sniper and you'll be gone Instapop = ftw (small hint, 100km isn't ''sniping range'')
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2007.04.01 13:14:00 - [57] Originally by: Ryysa Edited by: Ryysa on 30/03/2007 23:35:30 Originally by: Morreia Originally by: Ryysa Originally by: Morreia In reference to the fast gang. Again been there, done that, got the t-shirt on mail order. In that case you should know what I am talking about. Yea, if the whole gang is fasted a lone sniper is stuffed. I thought you mean just 1 or 2 tacklers to start off with. I don't mean a lone sniper. I mean an entire fast gang fighting at a spot with a slow gang, and then that slow gang has a sniper warping in as support. The sniper will get tackled and the slow gang will be unable to assist him in any way, just watch him die and get looted. Hope you know what I mean now. Ofc if it's gang with 20 snipers then it's different. P.S. I think what happened to this thread can be summed up quite well with this image: also the battle you're talking about is waaay too situational, with a slow gang, 1 lone sniper warping in, wtf? And you're ''we fight blobs 10:1 outnumbered we just seperate them and pwn them all'' is bull****, you go with 4 ships we'll go with 40 and kill you all
Morreia The Celestial Element	Posted - 2007.04.01 13:17:00 - [58] Originally by: Deathbarrage Originally by: Ryysa Edited by: Ryysa on 30/03/2007 23:35:30 Originally by: Morreia Originally by: Ryysa Originally by: Morreia In reference to the fast gang. Again been there, done that, got the t-shirt on mail order. In that case you should know what I am talking about. Yea, if the whole gang is fasted a lone sniper is stuffed. I thought you mean just 1 or 2 tacklers to start off with. I don't mean a lone sniper. I mean an entire fast gang fighting at a spot with a slow gang, and then that slow gang has a sniper warping in as support. The sniper will get tackled and the slow gang will be unable to assist him in any way, just watch him die and get looted. Hope you know what I mean now. Ofc if it's gang with 20 snipers then it's different. P.S. I think what happened to this thread can be summed up quite well with this image: also the battle you're talking about is waaay too situational, with a slow gang, 1 lone sniper warping in, wtf? And you're ''we fight blobs 10:1 outnumbered we just seperate them and pwn them all'' is bull****, you go with 4 ships we'll go with 40 and kill you all Now I think about it logically this guys got a point. If I got a gang of 40 people. Even if I told them they were'nt allowed to fly faster than 10m/s do you still think 4 of you could beat them?
FraXy 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.04.01 14:24:00 - [59] Edited by: FraXy on 01/04/2007 14:30:01 I thought this was Navy Caracal setup thread and not Interceptor tackles Sniper Ship? Edit: Caracal Navy Issue Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Turret Slot 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Invulnerability Field II F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Faint Warp Prohibitor I Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Overdrive Injector System II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Rigs : Auxiliary Thrusters I \ Low Friction Nozzle Joints I \ Low Friction Nozzle Joints I \ 6075 shield, 16.2/s, E/T/K/Ex=30/43/57/71 1816 armor, E/T/K/Ex=59/44/25/10 1237.5 cap, +7.82/s, -23.443/s 2365.0 m/s
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.01 16:15:00 - [60] Originally by: Morreia Now I think about it logically this guys got a point. If I got a gang of 40 people. Even if I told them they were'nt allowed to fly faster than 10m/s do you still think 4 of you could beat them? Never underestimate the power of dumb people in masses. Beat a 16 man gang with 2 ships once, 1 battleship and 1 recon vs 6 battleships + support. Just means that a blob of carebears is not always the answer ;) And deathbarrage, sure, as soon as TQ is re-mirrored so i have a gistii mwd to fit. N.F.F. Recruitment

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