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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
John Lawyer Jr
Silicon Dreams Smile 'n' Wave
6
|
Posted - 2016.11.25 13:01:07 -
[751] - Quote
Just a reminder - ready to resub - waiting for the Aura fix. Any feedback, CCP? |
Sgt Ocker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1247
|
Posted - 2016.11.25 13:06:40 -
[752] - Quote
Balabhadra Das wrote:Quote:Being helpful to someone looking for advice is a good thing. Giving assistance to someone simply whining about restrictions set in place for the exact reason he is whining?
Had Timothy come here asking for ways to increase earning potential with the skills he has available as a "free 2 Play" character, by all means offer any assistance you can - Whiners deserve the short shift. I spoke to a couple of Alpha players last night, earning 25 mil p/h running missions together. Restrictions obviously aren't that bad if you look outside the "I can't do that" box..
"Get off the rails" is the correct response. Right. Always better to blast someone with elitism..... *Yawn* Who are you, or anyone, to judge whether someone is "worthy" of being helped? I am who I am. I won't offer to help someone who opens up with a whine about how badly done by they are.. "Alphas need better this and better that", he made a choice to play for free and then wants to complain it is too hard. Give the guy 500K more SP to play with, it would still not be enough because he then can't make enough to buy a super, instead of a plex.
I'm no elitist, I help new players whenever they ask, if I can't I try to refer them to someone who can - But don't bother whining to about how hard it is to make isk because your "free to play" account has limited skills, then expect me to go out of my way to help you.
A positive request will always reap more assistance than telling me it is wrong that your account has limited skills, therefore slower isk making potential.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
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Sgt Ocker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1247
|
Posted - 2016.11.25 13:10:23 -
[753] - Quote
John Lawyer Jr wrote:Just a reminder - ready to resub - waiting for the Aura fix. Any feedback, CCP? New (terribad) Aura is here to stay Devs interest in player feedback regarding this - Nil
One Dev summed up CCP's respect for its loyal (paying) player base with one word - NOPE - Nothing more to be said..
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
|
Phuzzy Logic
Obsidian Maser
1
|
Posted - 2016.11.25 14:46:40 -
[754] - Quote
Please bring back the old voice or give us the option.
She sounds like my ex-wife from 22 years ago... I am so tempted to shoot my speakers every time I forget to turn them off... |
Zid Freeman
9
|
Posted - 2016.11.25 22:29:36 -
[755] - Quote
Aischa Montagne wrote:I do also not like the new Aura. I want to explain why on the Command warping.
The new Aura speaks quicker, with a happiness in her tone. If your adrenaline pounds to your veins and you just ran from a lost battle, the least you want to hear is a voice that is happy about that you are just warping, maybe just saved your clone. So every time you are not happy, your Aura kicks you in the ass. Not a good ally.
I think the idea that a voice that expresses happiness might be inviting for a new capsuleer to do what has to be done. But eve world is not happy, fluffy unicorns in space. you need a voice to ancor you on the experience you just had. get you down, prepare you. This is best done with a quiet, neutral, meditating voice. The old Aura had this qualities in my opinion.
When you warped out of battle and your Adranilne pounds through your veins, Aura told you in a quiet voice that all is good and you can focus on your next step. It fitted to your action indipendant on your mood or purpose.
Please go back to your Aura design board, and check your options. I do not think all has to be remade. Only those places where emotions play a big part.
Thank you for the efforts. I like the general direction the tech decvelops into. Keep it going.
THIS !
Absolutely one hundred percent frecking: THIS !
Bring Auras original voice back please
|
Balabhadra Das
Viziam Amarr Empire
55
|
Posted - 2016.11.26 11:35:40 -
[756] - Quote
Old Aura fans, please keep this thread:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=500415&p=2
And this petition:
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/make-auras-voice-greater-again
Alive.
FYI, the petition does NOT require a donation, just skip when asked. |
Feodor Mihailovici
Mare Anguis
50
|
Posted - 2016.11.26 13:16:12 -
[757] - Quote
VLAD VIRONS wrote:I'm all for original Aura. Have nothing against emotional voice character, but even original Aura were doing it better.
Oh snap I never knew Aura was originally saying that ! This sounds like GlaDOS's mother, it's epic (and voice sounds the same to the Aura we all love and CCP needs to bring back, it was probably the same actress ?). True, the words are not very fitting to Eve's lore, but still .... hilarious. |
Feodor Mihailovici
Mare Anguis
50
|
Posted - 2016.11.26 13:23:51 -
[758] - Quote
Studying the number of likes on the original "bring back Aura" posts and number of signatures in the aforementioned ipetitions thread, it seems we are about 35-40 people who really give a crap about keeping Eve .... Eve . Too bad. |
Zid Freeman
11
|
Posted - 2016.11.26 15:26:12 -
[759] - Quote
"Oh, stop your whining - I think replacing HAL's voice in 2001 SPACE ODYSSEY with a more happy upbeat attractive female voice would ADD to the movie"...
Bring Aura's original voice back please
|
Guttripper
State War Academy Caldari State
646
|
Posted - 2016.11.26 15:45:47 -
[760] - Quote
I would like the option of using the old Aura voice.
After years and years (and years) of heavy metal and rock concerts, my higher range for hearing is damaged and at times faded. The older voice was deeper and I was able to hear it. The new voice is at a higher octane and parts of her speech are silent to me. Even when I turn my speakers up, it sounds like she is saying, "Whore Dry Act If".
As others have mentioned, it is not something I need to have to play the game, but it is but a small part taken away. |
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Astrid Asanari
BAND of MAGNUS THE R0NIN
1
|
Posted - 2016.11.26 16:23:18 -
[761] - Quote
i cant find anywhere how much skill points do i need for next level of skill ... just how much to lvl 5
i dont like that new character sheet |
Matthias Ancaladron
Hedion University Amarr Empire
12
|
Posted - 2016.11.26 20:53:10 -
[762] - Quote
Good god that voice is awful. Had a chance to get on today and turned the voice volume up. Turned it right back down. I usually only keeo it around 50 but she sounded way better before. |
Lemmi ChillMister
Acid Tech. 303
10
|
Posted - 2016.11.26 23:03:04 -
[763] - Quote
I would like to have the previous Aura voice back, please... The new one sounds like a speedfreak with a helium addiction...
#NovaWhen?
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Chiara O'Nyx
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2016.11.26 23:07:22 -
[764] - Quote
"Warp drive active" :chirpychimpmunk"
There was a thread of a guy who just did some light audio modification of new Aura and it sounded a lot better.
So if you guys don't want to hassle with all new recording, can we at least get new Aura's voice modified to get more satisfactory results? |
ModusOperandi
Celestial Geologics Mineral Concern
0
|
Posted - 2016.11.27 00:01:36 -
[765] - Quote
I understand why Aura's voice was changed, but I MUST have the option of reverting to the old one. This needs to be an immediate priority. |
Quazided
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
25
|
Posted - 2016.11.27 09:50:55 -
[766] - Quote
My paint skills wont win any awards
You could add "Does not affect NPE Interactions" to the end
Come on CCP you know you wonna:
https://postimg.org/image/cx4nx9d13/ |
Mark O'Helm
Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt
253
|
Posted - 2016.11.27 12:35:43 -
[767] - Quote
https://youtu.be/A1kPRgrHZ3Y The amount you can mine now with one account is insane. The Roqual in this video makes more ice then 3 fully boosted skiffs.(i calculated it). Including the possibility to compress the ice, he outruns my orca+freighter+3 skiff. 1 Account makes more ice then 5? That is illogical.
Please reduce that or give the orca and the porpoise a buff in mining. Maybe a doubble bandwith, so they can use 2 ice drones.
"Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen.
Aber Frauen wollen keine Frauenversteher.
Weil Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen." (Ein Single)
"Wirklich coolen Leuten ist es egal, ob sie cool sind." (Einer, dem es egal ist)
|
Akira Kata
AkiCo LLC
17
|
Posted - 2016.11.27 16:56:19 -
[768] - Quote
So far, my favorite Ascension feature is simulation mode in the fitting window- incredibly useful ability to have in-game. I truly appreciate how well this works.
The Alpha Clone option is fantastic. I'm really enjoying the ability to have no-cost, low-risk minions I can train to do limited, specific tasks.
The new ship destruction animations are beautiful to behold. Love watching the multitude of tiny explosions across a stricken vessel's hull culminate in a final blast.
I'm somewhat mixed on the structure explosions. Though they are spectacular and beautifully intense, I often wish I had protective goggles irl like those worn by my avatar to shield my eyes.
Though not an issue while gratuitously destroying non-essential bunkers, warehouses, lookouts, etc. after all enemies are dead (I leave no witnesses), the extreme brightness from blowing up missile and sentry turrets during a fight can make it difficult to see anything else on-screen, thus becoming a control issue.
Like many fellow capsuleers, I miss the old ship AI voice. There was a serene, detached quality to her- even as she expressed subtle annoyance when I asked her to set a way-point to the same location twice... and providing wonderful irony by calmly announcing, "the capacitor is empty"- perhaps the most dreaded words EVE.
Thanks for the cool subscriber rewards! I like the combined religious artifact/brass-knuckle aesthetic of the Sunesis. Very cool ship.
One suggestion for future combat suits and other outfits: sleeveless options would be great for showing off tattoos and prosthetic arms.
My overall opinion is that Ascension is a highly successful update. Kudos CCP! |
Eski Minzin
Veni Vidi Vici Inc
39
|
Posted - 2016.11.27 18:11:10 -
[769] - Quote
I find it to be downright offensive to have CCP ignore us for nearly 40 pages now. Honestly.
You don't give your customers a platform to speak their minds and give feedback on your work, to then just ignore them completely if said feedback happens to not be to your liking. It doesn't work like that. Even if you won't be doing anything with the feedback you've received, you still (politely, Falcon) tell them so. So that they at least know that they're being heard.
Don't forget that we are the ones that are keeping you in business, CCP. We are the ones allowing you to receive a paycheck at the end of the month. |
Corporeal Universalis
Accumulated Peasantry
39
|
Posted - 2016.11.27 19:57:33 -
[770] - Quote
In reply to those that may say that "the ones asking for the Classic Aura voice back are just 30-40 individuals", what follows is a list of the 206 so far unique people having stated in this thread that: they dislike or hate the new aura voice / they ask for an option to use classic aura / they have muted the aura voice since ascension / have cancelled their subscription due to the lack of classic aura / or any combination of the above.
Please keep in perspective that this feedback thread has 768 posts as of this moment, posted by non unique accounts. This brings the number of complaints regarding this specific issue, to more than 1/3 of the expansion feedback.
This post is meant to be an informative post, depicting the situation.
The list of people complaining so far:
1. Sophia Mileghere 2. Davionia Vanshel 3. Keiko Ogawa 4. Mephiztopheleze 5. RankOutsider 6. Dominic Jacara 7. Klaw Athonille 8. Undefined Destiny 9. Dragon Mnementh 10. Tyrindel Vaedrelin 11. Greta Wolfcastle 12. Annexe 13. Ksand Defton 14. Simi van Dacus 15. Tolui Azaph 16. Oraac Ensor 17. Raw Matters 18. Do Nut 19. Andronicus Maximo 20. Sgt Ocker 21. Jesse Edwin Davis 22. ashahara 23. Stryider Tivianne 24. Gramps Pljugi 25. Diaz Kerensky 26. Adrager Amatin 27. Pubicbeard Jovakko 28. Testy McTestyFace2 29. Lmagno 30. Brynjard 31. Susitna 32. Quetz Alkoatl 33. Lothar Mandrake 34. Jarvis Nurella 35. Feodor Mihailovici 36. Sexy-Milf 37. Shayla Etherodyne 38. Julia Reave 39. DanTheManOnline 40. Drabbin Mishi 41. Mushwroom 42. Astrador 43. SportBilly 44. Malachir 45. d'hofren 46. Jeven HouseBenyo 47. Robot Robot 48. Rhah Nabunaid 49. Lucian Thetis 50. Maxim Gorkij 51. Rikali Laru 52. Caim Naberius 53. Kenrailae 54. Eski Minzin 55. Fault24x 56. MajkStone 57. Tom Schlong 58. Aelavaine 59. Venus Zewana 60. Voxinian 61. Quazided 62. Ami Sentokia 63. Donna Stride 64. Ridjobradi 65. Flashmala 66. Joia Crenca 67. Sire Sparrow 68. Kaze Mester 69. Pendra Tahyan 70. KIller Wabbit 71. Athenea Thiesant 72. Yolinde 73. Emiko P'eng 74. Fixy BrokeIT 75. Hildebrandt Koeppl 76. Paul Brinkhoff 77. Naga Zin 78. L0NEWARRIOR 79. Agfro Er 80. Andy Baer 81. Orlacc 82. Corporeal Universalis 83. Balabhadra Das 84. Kalen Blackstar 85. Joseph Nobel 86. Xodiac Primus 87. Borderjumper 88. phaNNNNToM 89. Mia Coldheart 90. Lugh Crow-Slave 91. Lana 'Monster-Hands' Kane 92. John Lawyer Jr 93. Lance B Johnson 94. Bemo 95. J'xander 96. Algarion Getz 97. Ion Blacknight 98. Vincent Moussou 99. Scarlett Audeles 100. Sien Salazar 101. Mi Shui 102. GeeBee 103. Admiral Zander 104. artemis Ambraella 105. Belthazor4011 106. GoHa RED 107. SeVenNight Deng 108. Ismael Caleb Echart 109. Cat Steele 110. Daemon Ceed 111. Victoria Cohen 112. Beam Moonrunner 113. Cisco Ayeoess 114. Dominous Nolen 115. Anna Tomy 116. Jime Sunji 117. Jegug Gyohoe 118. General Lynch 119. Jules Cognac 120. Artsnis 121. Le Loup Gris 122. Marlene Dakenek 123. Terrorfrodo 124. Swind 125. Edward Olmops 126. Nankeen Heron 127. Belinda Hawke 128. Sandor Kurovsky 129. Bob Hawke 130. Fer'isam K'ahn 131. Sarina Aideron 132. Rhyme Bittern 133. Erik Kalkoken 134. Shaana Mistique 135. Calaeus Fira 136. xRazoRx 137. Kailiani 138. Erasmus Ronuken 139. Eirene Jitacheck 140. Dazzlin Flame 141. Cad Aver 142. Benevolant Khan 143. DeadGuyVegas 144. Jhani Bralhast 145. Gyrr Sie 146. Caldranna 147. Regan Rotineque 148. conney Cadelanne 149. GetOUT The Way817CH 150. Dominik Crowley 151. Siigari Kitawa 152. Christoph Schmidt 153. Kreimhild 154. Doctor Bonn Young 155. Molica Iwaira 156. Myszokar Asterlan 157. sthymj 158. Esrevid Nekkeg 159. fuzz logick 160. Jenn aSide 161. Cookem 162. Zerberus Valheru 163. Lucy Lollipops 164. ChenLi 165. Cookie 166. Josef Djugashvilis 167. Edwin Zavut 168. Nix Axer 169. Wondertoon 170. Jaxon Grylls 171. forsak3n 172. Dajat Lemmont 173. Hindustani Troublemaker 174. John WarpingSlow 175. Countess Markievicz 176. Ni Neith 177. She11by 178. msTokkoTai 179. Elaine Eza 180. Drizden D'Urden 181. Mak Ka 182. LeFleur 183. Zeros Soliety 184. Mephiston Entreri 185. James Frechette 186. Leora Jomir 187. Blue Sonja 188. Xela Kcaneoh 189. Xtank Atratus 190. Zid Freeman 191. totalE 192. MarkaureI 193. Jonn Kramer 194. Ami Lentz 195. Jo Phor 196. NaKiti Entgalle 197. Clandestiny 198. Drauqhk Shathet 199. Harrock Shvir 200. Aischa Montagne 201. VLAD VIRONS 202. Guttripper 203. Matthias Ancaladron 204. Lemmi ChillMister 205. Chiara O'Nyx 206. ModusOperandi
Dear CCP, We are waiting. |
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Balabhadra Das
Viziam Amarr Empire
58
|
Posted - 2016.11.28 01:11:16 -
[771] - Quote
Mark O'Helm wrote:https://youtu.be/A1kPRgrHZ3Y The amount you can mine now with one account is insane. The Roqual in this video makes more ice then 3 fully boosted skiffs.(i calculated it). Including the possibility to compress the ice, he outruns my orca+freighter+3 skiff. 1 Account makes more ice then 5? That is illogical.
Please reduce that or give the orca and the porpoise a buff in mining. Maybe a double bandwith, so they can use 2 ice drones. Or doubble the mining bonus. CCPlease.
Edit. I know that the Rorqual is a capital mining ship now. But it is also the best Fleetbooster. And with an ice block every 6.6 sec. compared to the orca with around 50 sec. for the same block the rorqual is about 7.5 times better. This gap is too big. Don't you think so?
47.5 million ISK in 20 mins. RIP Eve sub's.
Player: CCP Wherdeya money go? CCP: We are holding in on ice.....
Bwahahah! |
March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron The-Culture
1953
|
Posted - 2016.11.28 09:26:45 -
[772] - Quote
Balabhadra Das wrote:Mark O'Helm wrote:https://youtu.be/A1kPRgrHZ3Y The amount you can mine now with one account is insane. The Roqual in this video makes more ice then 3 fully boosted skiffs.(i calculated it). Including the possibility to compress the ice, he outruns my orca+freighter+3 skiff. 1 Account makes more ice then 5? That is illogical.
Please reduce that or give the orca and the porpoise a buff in mining. Maybe a double bandwith, so they can use 2 ice drones. Or doubble the mining bonus. CCPlease.
Edit. I know that the Rorqual is a capital mining ship now. But it is also the best Fleetbooster. And with an ice block every 6.6 sec. compared to the orca with around 50 sec. for the same block the rorqual is about 7.5 times better. This gap is too big. Don't you think so? 47.5 million ISK in 20 mins. 1 Plex = Approx 10 Hours. RIP Eve sub's. Player: CCP Wherdeya money go? CCP: We are holding in on ice..... Bwahahah! carrier ratting in 0.0 makes you 50-60 million per 20 minutes super ratting in 0.0 - 80-100 million.
(loot and faction drops are not included)
It's not that 'RIP Eve subs' because of rorquals
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
|
Conar
My Wormhole Hurts
34
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Posted - 2016.11.28 13:52:01 -
[773] - Quote
Simulation mode.... Love it!
New Skill sheet... Love it!
New voice.... Love it!
CCP really hit it out of the park with this one. Huge thanks to everyone involved.
10+ years and not bitter yet....
conar 07 |
Ocean Ormand
Bagel and Lox
42
|
Posted - 2016.11.28 14:36:31 -
[774] - Quote
The use and diversity of rigs for ec's strikes me as being unreasonable. Manufacturing is tied to market conditions which are in continual flux. If I want to build an ec, and rig it, it is awkward and prohibitively expensive to swap out the rigs for something new every time market conditions change. Moreover, the ec rigs are way too specialized. In any given corp you may have one guy building fuel blocks - another doing small ships and still another doing capital production. Was it really intended that they all were supposed to have their own personal ec's? Or was it intended that smaller corps are supposed to have to join larger alliances to gain access to larger facilities? The whole point of such changes as jump fat and fozzie sov was to break up control of the blue donut - and yet here the way the ec's are designed - it pushes people to become part of larger entities which in turn fosters the blue donut. |
Celeste Aserad
Carbon Edge Inc
10
|
Posted - 2016.11.28 20:05:12 -
[775] - Quote
TL;DR Civilian modules should be removed from the game
After sitting in the Rookie Help chat for a week, I must say that one major confusing element to new players is related to the civilian modules. This relates both to guns (getting new guns but not loading ammo) and exploration (heading out to deep WH/Low/0.0 before finding that their civilian modules does nothing.
After playing through the Inception NPE I couldn't seem to find information relaying that these modules are simply "dummy modules" specially for the tutorial. This makes the transition confusing.
I would suggest removing civilian modules from the game entirely. Why can they not simply play with the real things right off the bat? |
Joseph Nobel
Heros of Adult Entertainment
8
|
Posted - 2016.11.29 07:43:14 -
[776] - Quote
Though on the list, be sure to add me on the list of people who have unsubscribed.
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Zi DoLphE Dutuitisme
Viziam Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2016.11.29 17:30:34 -
[777] - Quote
So, this is what Eve Online has become now... This game was the best mmo ever made... in 2011 ! All the player left or are leaving. I guess this is time for new horizons... Let it go guys, Eve is lost as much as ccp ! A game is not made for editors to make money, a game is made for players... Did you forget ccp? I loved you ccp but now, i just wanna tell you this : ..i. Have fun for the bravest of you, I'm done ! 5 years of love story, but no regret at all !
I know you guys won't regret me, but that's fine when it works either ways !
HF guys ! |
Balabhadra Das
Viziam Amarr Empire
59
|
Posted - 2016.11.29 22:46:38 -
[778] - Quote
Zi DoLphE Dutuitisme wrote:So, this is what Eve Online has become now... This game was the best mmo ever made... in 2011 ! All the player left or are leaving. I guess this is time for new horizons... Let it go guys, Eve is lost as much as ccp ! A game is not made for editors to make money, a game is made for players... Did you forget ccp? I loved you ccp but now, i just wanna tell you this : ..i. Have fun for the bravest of you, I'm done ! 5 years of love story, but no regret at all !
I know you guys won't regret me, but that's fine when it works either ways !
HF guys !
#QQ
#Tranquility 32k Players.
#Bye now nice to know you.
*Waves*
|
Sylvia Kildare
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
21
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Posted - 2016.11.30 01:58:56 -
[779] - Quote
Corporeal Universalis wrote:In reply to those that may say that "the ones asking for the Classic Aura voice back are just 30-40 individuals", what follows is a list of the 206 so far unique people having stated in this thread that: they dislike or hate the new aura voice / they ask for an option to use classic aura / they have muted the aura voice since ascension / have cancelled their subscription due to the lack of classic aura / or any combination of the above.
Please keep in perspective that this feedback thread has 768 posts as of this moment, posted by non unique accounts. This brings the number of complaints regarding this specific issue, to more than 1/3 of the expansion feedback.
This post is meant to be an informative post, depicting the situation.
The list of people complaining so far: [snip] Dear CCP, We are waiting.
Please add me to the list of people wanting Classic Aura back for regular gameplay. I posted my protest in the latest This Week in EVE:
Sylvia Kildare wrote:Yep. Bring back the old Aura. New Aura is fine for the NPE, but for "warp drive actives" and docking voice confirmation and "you cannot jump" messages.... and ESPECIALLY for "skill training complete"... the old voice WAS EVE. Years of auditory comfort flushed down the toilet just so there'd be one new voice actor for the NPE + all the rest of us.
Keep the new voice actor for Aura in the NPE, give us back the old Aura for everything else. Kthxplz. |
Synderella
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.11.30 09:49:38 -
[780] - Quote
Your Alpha Clone system is more like a permanent free trial than being an actual Free to Play system because there is a hard paywall waiting for you once you train everything you are allowed to train (at 1/2 speed no less making it even more painful). Your marketing on this feels misleading. Alpha Clones will probably be much more popular with existing subscribers, especially pirate Corporations who just want toss-away alts without paying for new accounts, than new players who will still hit the same 90 degree skill curve as they always have once they leave your NPE.
However, seeing as I would never bother with an Alpha Clone personally, it doesn't affect me all that much (unless I subbed again then it would because of my note about pirate/ganker corporations above). That's just some feedback on how I feel about that system, personally, and how I don't find it appealing and as a result I would never recommend it to anyone.
On the note of you ever getting my business again, your removal of Aura really angers me. I muted the "new & improved" Aura within 10 minutes of firing up the game after the expansion. It is HORRIBLE. Aura was one of the best things about the experience. Aura was my companion through many hours of playing and mining. Aura was EVE. Hundreds of people complaining besides me and you just don't care. Not even enough to give people the option to use the Aura us veterans love. Well, I don't care if I give you my money. See how that works? |
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