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Spaceman Jack	Posted - 2007.04.07 22:50:00 - [91] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Spaceman Jack How the hell are you qualified to dole out advice when you dont know my situation? Im sorry, you must know better than me how many kill/losses I have. Just becuase I don't like the Privteers abuse of the wardec system does not mean i don't know how to PVP. That kind of assumption shows something about your thought process. Its a common argument and quite lame. There are PLENTY of kick ass PVPers that dont like the Privateer Alliance and this war abuse. So untill you want to give me some hard evidence as to who is good/bad at PVP versus who likes/dislikes this system, my advise to YOU is to think before you speak. Yes, EVE is non-consentual PVP, but PVP is NOT just combat and blowing up ships. Eveyone is like.. "well go to WOW now".. LOL, the funny thing is thast with this abuse this game has BECOME like WOW. Anyone wanna go on a raiding party in Jita? I'm very sorry if I hit a nerve, but you're posting in this thread has sounded very much like the standard "I don't like non-consentual PvP" and "All PvPers are griefers". Apparently you have a grudge against the Privateers, and you use these kind of threads to spew hatred against them. I'll tell you though, it looks pretty sad to me. Perhaps you should take it out in game instead? And about the "abuse of wardec system", would you care to tell me how deccing most of EvE is abusing? That's like saying mining a belt dry is abusing the mining system, or doing missions a whole day is abusing the mission running system. It just doesn't make sense. As for "plenty of kick-ass PvPers", all I see complaining about the Privateers are carebears. I have yet to see a PvPer with any notoriety post negatively about the Privateers. I think you need to get a grip, and realise that this is a game, and that if you don't have fun, for whatever reason, it's time to look for a new game. Privateers are here to stay. Even if they fall apart, someone else will walk in their footsteps. Get used to it. /Ki OHHHHH.. so I see.. Hmm.. Can you find where in my posts I said i was AGAINST consentual PVP... Please can you find it? . . . OK. Now that is settled. Not all PVPers are griefers.. I am a PVPer. Privateers just happen to be the only ones doing what they are doing, but it could be any alliance doing the same thing..... However, please NOTE: no one else has started doing this. Its not this incredible revolution. Its just an annoyance. And in my opinion the excessive wardecs reduces the diversity of the game. I am not saying get rid of non-consentual PVP, I was never against wardecs before this spectacle and I am still not against it, but for crying out loud.. give it a break. You are right about onwe thing though, this is a game and if I dont like it anymore i can leave. I was just upset there were no more unique games out there.
Timebomb The Phoenix Mercenaries The Cartel.	Posted - 2007.04.07 22:53:00 - [92] Ki An, go spam another thread, your posts justify nothing other than your own ego. I will hold my comment of the privateers as it will probably be snipped, however its a dam shame when they dec real PvPers (4th time for us now i think) and then logoffski/dockupski/log-on trapski etc etc. If CCP have any sense they will put an end to the privateers. ----------------------
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.04.07 23:01:00 - [93] Originally by: Timebomb Ki An, go spam another thread, your posts justify nothing other than your own ego. I will hold my comment of the privateers as it will probably be snipped, however its a dam shame when they dec real PvPers (4th time for us now i think) and then logoffski/dockupski/log-on trapski etc etc. If CCP have any sense they will put an end to the privateers. I take it we have another hater then? Oh, yes. All Privateers loggoffski and whatnot, because, really, they are afraid of you. They dec you, but they don't really want to be at war with you, because you are a l33t PvPer, and they're not. Once again, I've yet to see a PvPer with any notoriety have anything bad to say about the Privateers. /Ki Remember, kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
Gladia Horusthu Gallente Anything Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.07 23:17:00 - [94] Originally by: Spaceman Jack OHHHHH.. so I see.. Hmm.. Can you find where in my posts I said i was AGAINST consentual PVP... Please can you find it? . . . OK. Now that is settled. Not all PVPers are griefers.. I am a PVPer. Privateers just happen to be the only ones doing what they are doing, but it could be any alliance doing the same thing..... However, please NOTE: no one else has started doing this. Its not this incredible revolution. Its just an annoyance. And in my opinion the excessive wardecs reduces the diversity of the game. I am not saying get rid of non-consentual PVP, I was never against wardecs before this spectacle and I am still not against it, but for crying out loud.. give it a break. Don't get me wrong, I have sympathy for people, this kind of game play can get old after a while, particulary if it isn't one's preferred mode of game play. HOWEVER, Privateers did NOT pioneer this kind of gameplay, they merely systematized what others (and probably constituent members) have been doing for years. Wardecs have long been issued against empire-based corps, often for ransom (something that was specifically supported, I might add), often when they did something like put up a POS or something else that attracted attention. Maybe it was just for smacking or suspected scamming, or connection of one or more members to another enemy group. Or just perceived weakness and too many assets. Fact is, though, Privateers only do what others before have done, except they are honest about their reason for existence. They advertise their wardeccing potential for mercenary contracts in other forums, and are far from the only mercs. They are simply the cheapest. If I was an industrial corp competing with a bigger corp for belts in a system, I'd lay out the ISK for Privateers to dec 'em, and probably keep it up till they either left the system. I don't care if the larger corp can't defend itself, THOSE ARE MY ROCKS, and they will have to fight for it, even if it involves fighting through proxies. That is the essence of Eve. As an Empire hugger, Privateers DOES serve a purpose, imo. And they invented neither the purpose nor the mechanism. Of course I am not addressing the wardecs against the allian-- wait, yeah I am. Perhaps it's just payback for all the digs that many (NOT all) deep space types send the direction of empire-based organizations. Life can be just as dangerous and a lot less rational in Empire than in 0.0 You want your little zones of safety, ironically enough they aren't in Empire. Yes, in past lives I have participated in alliances, and they are fun in their own right. I'm just saying that what Privateers does can fit a purpose, and a weapon for those who pay attention.

BH Runner ISD BH Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2007.04.07 23:24:00 - [95] This issue has already been dealt with. Its on the test server, it hasn't reached TQ deployment yet. Review it on the test server please. [Bug Report Here] - [Contact Us]

Sorted Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.07 23:42:00 - [96] Originally by: BH Runner This issue has already been dealt with. Its on the test server, it hasn't reached TQ deployment yet. Review it on the test server please. What ? Whats has>? point me to someplace to read about it pls,...what am I missing???? Learn More: Privateers Recruitment
Darius silverbolt	Posted - 2007.04.07 23:48:00 - [97] So I am going to be that "guy" who asked that lame question. What the heck is the problem with privateers all about? I am a empire player in a small dead corp. I don't see any problems to what i am reading. Can some one please just lay it out for this un-informed miner.
Adelorae24	Posted - 2007.04.07 23:51:00 - [98] Originally by: Darius silverbolt So I am going to be that "guy" who asked that lame question. What the heck is the problem with privateers all about? I am a empire player in a small dead corp. I don't see any problems to what i am reading. Can some one please just lay it out for this un-informed miner. Where do you mine exactly??? Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -HornFrog ([email protected])
Darius silverbolt	Posted - 2007.04.07 23:59:00 - [99] mostly in 1.0 and .9 space to avoid rats.
Thread Winner Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.04.08 00:07:00 - [100] Originally by: Sorted Originally by: BH Runner This issue has already been dealt with. Its on the test server, it hasn't reached TQ deployment yet. Review it on the test server please. What ? Whats has>? point me to someplace to read about it pls,...what am I missing???? yeah thats what I want to know TO THE TEST SERVER!

Sorted Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.08 00:10:00 - [101] Originally by: Thread Winner Originally by: Sorted Originally by: BH Runner This issue has already been dealt with. Its on the test server, it hasn't reached TQ deployment yet. Review it on the test server please. What ? Whats has>? point me to someplace to read about it pls,...what am I missing???? yeah thats what I want to know TO THE TEST SERVER! Just got back from there - ... PRiavteers doesnt have an allaince on the test server - and I am not familiar enough with the Corp deccing proceudre to know if its different. Learn More: Privateers Recruitment
Thread Winner Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.04.08 00:15:00 - [102] Originally by: Sorted Originally by: Thread Winner Originally by: Sorted Originally by: BH Runner This issue has already been dealt with. Its on the test server, it hasn't reached TQ deployment yet. Review it on the test server please. What ? Whats has>? point me to someplace to read about it pls,...what am I missing???? yeah thats what I want to know TO THE TEST SERVER! Just got back from there - ... PRiavteers doesnt have an allaince on the test server - and I am not familiar enough with the Corp deccing proceudre to know if its different. form a corp go to war hurry we must know!
Izzy Pol Fear and Loathing in LoneTrek	Posted - 2007.04.08 00:19:00 - [103] Originally by: BH Runner This issue has already been dealt with. Its on the test server, it hasn't reached TQ deployment yet. Review it on the test server please. That wasn't very informative.
Vicious Phoenix	Posted - 2007.04.08 00:54:00 - [104] Originally by: BH Runner This issue has already been dealt with. Its on the test server, it hasn't reached TQ deployment yet. Review it on the test server please. What issue? There is no issue. If Privateers can shoot 69 assorted corps/alliances then those 69 corps/alliances can shoot them. Privateers should be a pile of molten goo right now. CFW (Certified Forum Warrior) I kill people ingame too.
Thread Winner Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.04.08 01:03:00 - [105] Linkage I've opened up votes on war deccing 6 corps on the test server if anything is odd about that screen shot please inform me as I haven't war dec'd anyone before
Vicious Phoenix	Posted - 2007.04.08 01:28:00 - [106] Hmmm, I think that means they've made it cost more per dec so you can't have mass amount of wars going without paying heavily for it. Though I'm not sure. CFW (Certified Forum Warrior) I kill people ingame too.
Marquis Dean The Last Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2007.04.08 01:36:00 - [107] Is this the death of PRVTR? That makes me a very sad panda. --- Originally by: CCP Sharkbait will explain when i have the time i promise
Xiao Up	Posted - 2007.04.08 01:47:00 - [108] Originally by: Karasuma Akane Edited by: Karasuma Akane on 07/04/2007 09:09:14 Originally by: Ki An Note, these wars may have changed in the time it took me to write this. Thank you for the list and providing some sort of a factual breakdown of the wardecs. Now I'm just puzzled as to how Privateers have gotten their negative reputation (as expressed all over the forums) and caused so much anti-buzz if operations are truly this aligned toward targeting 0.0 alliances? There's apparently a perception problem somewhere that's giving Privateers bad public relations. Maybe you need better publicity for the claims that Bangoura added above. [p.s. - FarScape, I have no idea how you misunderstood my quoted line to mean big alliances when the sentence referred to small carebear corps.] I know it's been a few pages since the parent posted, but I wanted to respond: For the record, I think that the Privateers are overall not good for eve. I think that part of what made this game great was that there was the part of the game where people could play safe, play politics and robber baron in empire, and basically not have to worry about being attacked. Some people just want to be the armor crafter and shopkeeper. But, I think a lot of the reason that the Privateers are getting so much flack on the forum is due to two things. 1.) the fact that they war-dec any high-sec young industrialist corps. It's a low blow, I'm not denying that, but it is legal. Whatever. 2.) 0.0 alliance member forum-alts who complain. And this point, I think has some reason behind it. People who live in 0.0 live in constant thrills and fears of invasion, conquest, and pvp at any moment. These people go to empire to buy stuff for pvp to bring to 0.0, and to relax and get away for a while, maybe tend to their research, or to run some lvl 4 missions to relax, etc. So, to some people, old schoolers I guess, an empire war-dec is a big deal, it signifies a mortal enemy saying "we're going to chase you into empire and kill you there, too". But, a privateer war dec is different - they're saying "we have no reason to hate you, we are just going to show up in the middle of your Mediterranean cruise and kick you in the nuts because we can". I mean, it's like shipping out on active duty to a war zone, then coming home to see your family for 3 weeks, and all of a sudden, someone leaves flaming bags of dog crap on your front porch. Personally, I'm torn in a way. I want there to be a "safe space" where people can both have a corporation (cause, social interaction is the game) and be safe from attack, but I recognize what the privateers do is legit. Part of me says people should adapt. Part of me says there needs to be a sandbox without pee in it.
Dave White The Kennels	Posted - 2007.04.08 02:02:00 - [109] Originally by: BH Runner This issue has already been dealt with. Its on the test server, it hasn't reached TQ deployment yet. Review it on the test server please.
Sorted Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.08 02:06:00 - [110] Originally by: Thread Winner Linkage I've opened up votes on war deccing 6 corps on the test server if anything is odd about that screen shot please inform me as I haven't war dec'd anyone before The text in the Dec information box shows it is scalable based on the targets non mutal- it have been like that on TQ for as long as I have played. I dont know if there are any changes to the Alliance War Decing system though. Learn More: Privateers Recruitment

Troy Knight	Posted - 2007.04.08 02:19:00 - [111] Hmm..alot of complaining here about this. My question is: How come nobody thought about doing what the Privateers are doing before? Its like a light bulb lit above the privateers heads and all of Empire moaned at once.
Captain Thunk Captain Morgan Society	Posted - 2007.04.08 02:34:00 - [112] Edited by: Captain Thunk on 08/04/2007 02:34:13 Then CCP should add a big red button top right hand of the screen. When pressed this button should render the pilot totally invulnerable regardless of whether he's in 0.0, low sec or high sec empire - a bright sign should appear above the pilots ship reading "I don't feel like fighting right now" There is a lot of misinformation regarding privateers and what they do, I'm not saying there aren't a few who camp Jita 4-4 all day, as there clearly are. But there are many who believe each and every single privateer only engages ships 10:1 that have no weapons and runs the second a gun is fired in anger in their direction. If people wish to believe that, then that's fine, but I don't think posting such nonsense and stating it's a fact on these forums is at all helpful. Generally speaking, privateers only targets large alliances on the principle of gaining as many targets as feasible. Unless specifically hired, there's no reason for us to attack a small industrial corp - it'd make no sense from our point of view in paying the fee for a very small number of pilots. Whoever hires privateers to grief these people would be paying someone to do it whether or not privateers existed. The vast majority of small corps aren't on the privateer radar and most people are well aware of this fact but are choosing to ignore it to try and remedy their own situation. Ultimately, the people complaining the loudest want their cake and eat it. They want to be a 'powerful 0.0 entity, shaping the Eve universe in the most manly way' while convenient and then on the otherhand be a peaceful happy-afk-lucky industrialist making a lot of money in Empire when 0.0 is not so convenient. The simple fact is that many of these alliances are not as '0.0 based' as they wish people to believe, something that privateers has been exposing for some time. I'm off the opinion that 2 week old players have no place in alliances, they have so much to learn about the game and would be better off in a smaller corp learning the basics. Being in a 0.0 alliance may benefit them financially, but they're side stepping part of the important learning process. For this reason I am not overly sympathetic for their plight, no more than I would be if they got ganked in some 0.0 region. That said, I've had two engagements with Ivy League gangs who show up their '0.0 poweful alliance' peers with their attitude and fun spirit. Not only do they actively hunt privateers, they also put up a good fight and shrug the losses off with a positive attitude. I don't think these 'newbs' are losing anything in their experience with privateers and are instead harnassing what the opportunity has brought them. I think the real problem some people are having with privateers is that it's showing up people who have no real place in an alliance, they're not interested in taking part in their alliance and their alliance has no interest in protecting them in Empire while they do their own thing. If the privateer alliance is about to be CCP'd then I'll settle on having had a good time, but I'd much rather CCP spent time solving the Logoff problems, explaining patiently - like a mother to a child - the problems that can occur when Devs/GMs/Events organisers get too close to the community as well as countless other outstanding issues than pandering to a small section of the community fixated with bending Eve to their vision rather than finding their own niche within the universe. As far as I know there are only 3 people who have any say in Privateer Alliance direction, I am not one of them so my views may not be fully representative of the Alliance all the time. CAPTAIN THUNK Captain Morgan Society - Dedicated to rehabilitating the Teetotal.
Apollyon X FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.04.08 03:02:00 - [113] It can be troublesome but I enjoy the danger of privateers. It makes empire feel like one big 0.0 npc region with no bubbles.
Tachuro Otapaku	Posted - 2007.04.08 03:13:00 - [114] Given the number of battles my corp, Eve University, has had with the Privateers recently, they do not solely gank haulers. I'm sure some of their members may, but a lot of them, specifically a couple corps within, just want to battle. There have been victories and losses on both sides, with pretty well every class of ship, excepting capital ships and titans, of course. I can't say I agree with the whole randomly declaring wars thing - I'm a miner, and my skills are mostly mining/building =/ I guess it would be different if I had a few more combat skills, as well as available time.
ElweSingollo The Vanyar	Posted - 2007.04.08 03:33:00 - [115] Originally by: Kodiak31415 Originally by: Barbarellas Daughter Getting shot with black screen is petitionable. Petitions are annoying, but at least the loss is compensated. I dont know how many black screen killmails privs get, but its sad they spam their killboard with these mails. The ship gets reimbursed, so why post the mail? IIRC aren't you invincible or at least unlockable untill about 20 seconds after undock? Unless theres lag or your have a slow computer you should load up long before this. Also this time is the same as the 'redock' timer meaning that so long as your dont activate a module or attempt to move your can instantly redock (attmpting to redock will cancel this timer)...but then again I may just be full of it. doesn't account for being bumped 10k from the station while in your "20 sec invuln" timer though CCP and Eve Online... It's not a bug, it's a feature
Rose Deathscythe	Posted - 2007.04.08 03:34:00 - [116] Can say from first hand experiance that the privateers do disrupt gameplay. The people who are hurt are those that have to operate in empire space, namley newer players. I can say they made the first couple months in my corp a unfun experiance due to constantly being ambushed while simply trying to run missions. Its not like they make an effort not to target newer players and focus on high value targets, instead they shoot at anything that can be shot which ends up being lower skilled and equiped players. Ultimatley I'm fine with wardecs as a concept, but an allaince should be limited to 4 or 5 wardecs max to keep allainces fighting battles that are really important, not just convienent.
Spaceman Jack	Posted - 2007.04.08 13:36:00 - [117] Originally by: Captain Thunk Edited by: Captain Thunk on 08/04/2007 02:34:13 Then CCP should add a big red button top right hand of the screen. When pressed this button should render the pilot totally invulnerable regardless of whether he's in 0.0, low sec or high sec empire - a bright sign should appear above the pilots ship reading "I don't feel like fighting right now" There is a lot of misinformation regarding privateers and what they do, I'm not saying there aren't a few who camp Jita 4-4 all day, as there clearly are. But there are many who believe each and every single privateer only engages ships 10:1 that have no weapons and runs the second a gun is fired in anger in their direction. If people wish to believe that, then that's fine, but I don't think posting such nonsense and stating it's a fact on these forums is at all helpful. Generally speaking, privateers only targets large alliances on the principle of gaining as many targets as feasible. Unless specifically hired, there's no reason for us to attack a small industrial corp - it'd make no sense from our point of view in paying the fee for a very small number of pilots. Whoever hires privateers to grief these people would be paying someone to do it whether or not privateers existed. The vast majority of small corps aren't on the privateer radar and most people are well aware of this fact but are choosing to ignore it to try and remedy their own situation. Ultimately, the people complaining the loudest want their cake and eat it. They want to be a 'powerful 0.0 entity, shaping the Eve universe in the most manly way' while convenient and then on the otherhand be a peaceful happy-afk-lucky industrialist making a lot of money in Empire when 0.0 is not so convenient. The simple fact is that many of these alliances are not as '0.0 based' as they wish people to believe, something that privateers has been exposing for some time. I'm off the opinion that 2 week old players have no place in alliances, they have so much to learn about the game and would be better off in a smaller corp learning the basics. Being in a 0.0 alliance may benefit them financially, but they're side stepping part of the important learning process. For this reason I am not overly sympathetic for their plight, no more than I would be if they got ganked in some 0.0 region. That said, I've had two engagements with Ivy League gangs who show up their '0.0 poweful alliance' peers with their attitude and fun spirit. Not only do they actively hunt privateers, they also put up a good fight and shrug the losses off with a positive attitude. I don't think these 'newbs' are losing anything in their experience with privateers and are instead harnassing what the opportunity has brought them. I think the real problem some people are having with privateers is that it's showing up people who have no real place in an alliance, they're not interested in taking part in their alliance and their alliance has no interest in protecting them in Empire while they do their own thing. If the privateer alliance is about to be CCP'd then I'll settle on having had a good time, but I'd much rather CCP spent time solving the Logoff problems, explaining patiently - like a mother to a child - the problems that can occur when Devs/GMs/Events organisers get too close to the community as well as countless other outstanding issues than pandering to a small section of the community fixated with bending Eve to their vision rather than finding their own niche within the universe. As far as I know there are only 3 people who have any say in Privateer Alliance direction, I am not one of them so my views may not be fully representative of the Alliance all the time. CAPTAIN THUNK No misinformation.. the system is just lame.. there is nothing complicated about it.
Pan Crastus	Posted - 2007.04.08 13:50:00 - [118] Originally by: Barbarellas Daughter Getting shot with black screen is petitionable. Petitions are annoying, but at least the loss is compensated. No it isn't, the stuff looted by the exploiters is gone and won't be given back.
Pan Crastus	Posted - 2007.04.08 13:55:00 - [119] Originally by: Spaceman Jack And tell me another thing.. why the HELL should I have to join a NPC corp to "deal" with the Privateer alliance. Isn't EVE about PLAYER BASED CORPS!!!!!!!! No, EVE in 2007 is all about fighting exploits with metagaming and vice versa ...
djenghis jan Amarr Debiloff	Posted - 2007.04.08 14:18:00 - [120] The problem is not the privateers abuse of the war dec system, its in the war dec system itself. If you have an empire war you can gank people everywhere in empire and at the same time are able to dock everywhere. I think that wardeccing should be confined to constellations or even systems and not whole empire so that its more about territorial control than just ganking



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