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A8ina
Cyber Naval Command Research and Development
31
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Posted - 2016.12.16 23:59:08 -
[1] - Quote
What I suggest is for Destroyer or a Cruiser with signature radius around 80 or 100 being able to use fixed on frame Capital size weapons
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5054
|
Posted - 2016.12.17 00:04:48 -
[2] - Quote
Why? |
Kolinthia Lincoln
Apogee Industries The Dominion Alliance
11
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Posted - 2016.12.17 00:11:20 -
[3] - Quote
Lol wat?
Edit: Also iirc capital weapons are about the size of destroyers and cruisers. |
A8ina
Cyber Naval Command Research and Development
31
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Posted - 2016.12.17 00:33:29 -
[4] - Quote
Rock-paper-scissors
I think you enjoy it for to long that Nyx Danika is about time to let go
If ships came in to play like this in to capital fleets then you will need light support from medium great weapons |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2929
|
Posted - 2016.12.17 00:57:04 -
[5] - Quote
You're posting on the wrong alt, Dryson.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5054
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Posted - 2016.12.17 01:11:50 -
[6] - Quote
A8ina wrote:Rock-paper-scissors I think you enjoy it for to long that Nyx Danika is about time to let go If ships came in to play like this in to capital fleets then you will need light support from medium great weapons
But you already need a support fleet?
What kind of DPS are you expecting from one unsieged capital gun, how much should these ships cost, what role do you see them actually filling, and why do you think that they'd be a good addition to the game? |
elitatwo
Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1526
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Posted - 2016.12.17 01:37:42 -
[7] - Quote
We have a thing just for your liking, it's called Titan. Kills all capitals.
/thread
Eve Minions is recruiting.
This is the law of ship progression!
Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
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A8ina
Cyber Naval Command Research and Development
31
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Posted - 2016.12.17 16:38:20 -
[8] - Quote
Most likely twin guns mainly you build the Ship on the guns and have special equipment when is active to provide 400%DPS and ship stability when firing weapons and speed reduction to X% since power is diverted to stabilizing thrusters.
The DPS it should be almost similar to Dreadnought so it gets the attention of Capitol only fleets
Something close to this Ship |
Lugh Crow-Slave
3417
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Posted - 2016.12.17 16:51:48 -
[9] - Quote
A8ina wrote:Rock-paper-scissors I think you enjoy it for to long that Nyx Danika is about time to let go If ships came in to play like this in to capital fleets then you will need light support from medium great weapons
how long exactly do you think capitals survive right now w/o a support fleet?
BLOPS Hauler
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AlexHalstead
Viziam Amarr Empire
7
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Posted - 2016.12.17 16:56:30 -
[10] - Quote
Meh I rather see a different ship that's built around a single capital weapon for cheap seige that only get a range boost (and no other bonuses to said weapon)when deployed and immobile but let it shoot just outside a citadel's fixed defense modules' range than what you proposed. XD |
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5056
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Posted - 2016.12.17 17:49:17 -
[11] - Quote
A8ina wrote:Most likely twin guns mainly you build the Ship on the guns and have special equipment when is active to provide 400%DPS and ship stability when firing weapons and speed reduction to X% since power is diverted to stabilizing thrusters. The DPS it should be almost similar to Dreadnought so it gets the attention of Capitol only fleets Something close to this Ship
So why, exactly, would anyone ever undock a dreadnaught again if they had access to cruisers with near equivalent DPS?
I mean, if I have a choice between paying three billion and a year's training for 10,000 DPS out of a dread, or 500 million or less and ~three months training for 8000 out of a cruiser then I'm going to take the smaller, cheaper, faster and more manoeuvrable ship every time, aren't I. |
Dior Ambraelle
University of Caille Gallente Federation
19
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Posted - 2016.12.17 18:27:18 -
[12] - Quote
Destroyers or cruisers equipped with capital weapons would look ridiculous, and probably would be able to fire their weapons twice before they get destroyed.
However I can imagine a battleship equipped with 2 capital guns, similar to the Oracle for example. Let's call them "Siege Battleships". T2 hulls with damage bonus and some tracking reduction, so they won't really hit anything that moves faster than a capital ship. Their main use would be to destroy hi-sec citadels easier - we start to have a bit too many of them anyways, especially around market hubs.
If you want an intelligent argument, please do, I'm up for it!
But if you want a trolling contest, I will win it by simply not participating.
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Julanna Egnald
Del's Industrial Strip Mining
34
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Posted - 2016.12.17 18:41:17 -
[13] - Quote
So a capital weapon on a ship that cannot be hit by a capital ship? Yeah, that sounds real balanced. And where would this tiny ship get the power? Have you seen the cap requirements for a capital weapon? I haven't, but I'd wager it's a fair bit more than a cruiser can provide |
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
572
|
Posted - 2016.12.17 19:08:04 -
[14] - Quote
Super weapons on frigates!
Just like in every space Anime!
No thanks... EvE isn't that type of game.
--Gadget
Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist
Given an hour to save New Eden, how would respected scientist, Albertus Eisenstein compose his thoughts? "Fifty-five minutes to define the problem; save the galaxy in five."
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A8ina
Cyber Naval Command Research and Development
31
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Posted - 2016.12.17 19:15:43 -
[15] - Quote
The goal is to force fleets to diversify and welcome use of smaller ships and not only Capitals , this ships will be very slow when is using its weapon and very susceptible to attack by medium grade fire and it will have the targeting range of a Cruiser or Destroyer the ship's agility will take the place of tracking speed And it will not be a replacement for Capital Ships sense is so easily destroyed by sub Capital ships
Mainly it will be a little thorn for Capital fleet Commanders. |
A8ina
Cyber Naval Command Research and Development
31
|
Posted - 2016.12.17 19:18:21 -
[16] - Quote
Julanna Egnald wrote:So a capital weapon on a ship that cannot be hit by a capital ship? Yeah, that sounds real balanced. And where would this tiny ship get the power? Have you seen the cap requirements for a capital weapon? I haven't, but I'd wager it's a fair bit more than a cruiser can provide
Look at T3 Battlecruiser |
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5056
|
Posted - 2016.12.17 19:56:17 -
[17] - Quote
A8ina wrote:The goal is to force fleets to diversify and welcome use of smaller ships and not only Capitals , this ships will be very slow when is using its weapon and very susceptible to attack by medium grade fire and it will have the targeting range of a Cruiser or Destroyer the ship's agility will take the place of tracking speed And it will not be a replacement for Capital Ships sense is so easily destroyed by sub Capital ships
Mainly it will be a little thorn for Capital fleet Commanders.
They. Already. Require. Support. Fleets. Show me a BR of a fight involving more than ten people won by nothing but capital ships without support since the rebalance.
If it can move at all with the guns on, it's better than a dread. It's cheaper, faster, does almost the DPS, much easier to train into, isn't immobile in siege, can use wormholes, bridges and even SMAs to move fleets around...
The tracking speed = align time thing makes them utterly useless for anything other than structure bashes though, I'll give you that. (Other than smashing sieged dreads/triaged FAX/transformed rorquals I suppose.)
But still leaves them much better than dreads for said structure bashes.
The 'cruiser EHP means they don't obsolete caps at all!' thing is nonsense. If I can field six of them for every one dread, and this assumes they're T3 prices, not T1 or even T2, and they're so much easier to move, fly, and replace when they die, why do I even care if I lose five out of my six to take one dread? I still come out ISK positive. |
Dior Ambraelle
University of Caille Gallente Federation
19
|
Posted - 2016.12.17 21:00:24 -
[18] - Quote
A8ina wrote:Julanna Egnald wrote:So a capital weapon on a ship that cannot be hit by a capital ship? Yeah, that sounds real balanced. And where would this tiny ship get the power? Have you seen the cap requirements for a capital weapon? I haven't, but I'd wager it's a fair bit more than a cruiser can provide Look at T3 Battlecruiser The Talos/Naga/Oracle/Tornado indeed have oversized weapons, but they already need 95% powergrid reduction to use them. Putting capital weapons on battleships would need the same bonus, capital weapons on cruisers would need about 99% reduction. And the attack BCs have very little tank compared to the other ships in their class, to balance their oversized weapons. A capital weapon on a destroyer would need about 99.99% reduction on it's powergrid, and probably would have the hull of a rookie ship. Not to mention that capital weapons are as big as a destroyer itself. A capital sized weapon platform would be better for anything really.
If you want an intelligent argument, please do, I'm up for it!
But if you want a trolling contest, I will win it by simply not participating.
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Dior Ambraelle
University of Caille Gallente Federation
19
|
Posted - 2016.12.17 21:03:44 -
[19] - Quote
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:Super weapons on frigates!
Just like in every space Anime!
No thanks... EvE isn't that type of game.
--Gadget
There actually are frigates that can fit a few super weapons, for CCP and ISD members only. I had a few fits saved, but the new fitting window update erased them, so I can't check them anymore
If you want an intelligent argument, please do, I'm up for it!
But if you want a trolling contest, I will win it by simply not participating.
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A8ina
Cyber Naval Command Research and Development
31
|
Posted - 2016.12.17 23:24:16 -
[20] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:A8ina wrote:The goal is to force fleets to diversify and welcome use of smaller ships and not only Capitals , this ships will be very slow when is using its weapon and very susceptible to attack by medium grade fire and it will have the targeting range of a Cruiser or Destroyer the ship's agility will take the place of tracking speed And it will not be a replacement for Capital Ships sense is so easily destroyed by sub Capital ships
Mainly it will be a little thorn for Capital fleet Commanders. They. Already. Require. Support. Fleets. Show me a BR of a fight involving more than ten people won by nothing but capital ships without support since the rebalance. If it can move at all with the guns on, it's better than a dread. It's cheaper, faster, does almost the DPS, much easier to train into, isn't immobile in siege, can use wormholes, bridges and even SMAs to move fleets around... The tracking speed = align time thing makes them utterly useless for anything other than structure bashes though, I'll give you that. (Other than smashing sieged dreads/triaged FAX/transformed rorquals I suppose.) But still leaves them much better than dreads for said structure bashes. The 'cruiser EHP means they don't obsolete caps at all!' thing is nonsense. If I can field six of them for every one dread, and this assumes they're T3 prices, not T1 or even T2, and they're so much easier to move, fly, and replace when they die, why do I even care if I lose five out of my six to take one dread? I still come out ISK positive.
There is a compromise in how you going to use your available pilots, am I going to go Cap-Destroyer heavily what happens if my opponent have Cruisers escorting his capitals then I lose all the pilots I invest in the fleet.
Have you seen the trailer I was there |
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5057
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Posted - 2016.12.18 00:23:38 -
[21] - Quote
...Have you ever, and I mean EVER been anywhere near a capital ship or a large fight in general? Or been a member of a real group?
if the other guy brings a big support fleet, the support fleet you were going to bring anyway can play with them while you use your cap destroyers to bash whatever structure you were going to drop dreads on, because dreads literally have no reason to exist with these things in the game.
Capital fleets already bring support fleets. Every time. Without fail. or they die. Your suggestion does not change this. Your suggestion makes dreads obsolete.
And losing a full fleet of cruisers is completely irrelevant. Losing a full fleet of caps hurts, but your cruisers are going to cost a tiny fraction of what a cap fleet costs. If they all die, who even cares? |
Lugh Crow-Slave
3420
|
Posted - 2016.12.18 01:19:40 -
[22] - Quote
if you really want an Anti-capital small ship Bombers are your thing
BLOPS Hauler
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powdemonic Ellecon
Moosearmy Moose Federation
3
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Posted - 2016.12.18 09:45:02 -
[23] - Quote
how about a capital ship that can field 8 anti sub cap guns, but no siege mod, and can use capital mods and rigs but have about 200,000 hit points with maxed out tank? it is an idea that may or may not make sense but the idea from this post is a bit more of a on paper idea |
Slayer Liberator
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
146
|
Posted - 2016.12.18 15:33:24 -
[24] - Quote
powdemonic Ellecon wrote:how about a capital ship that can field 8 anti sub cap guns, but no siege mod, and can use capital mods and rigs but have about 200,000 hit points with maxed out tank? it is an idea that may or may not make sense but the idea from this post is a bit more of a on paper idea By anti- subcap do you mean able to hit a frig or dessy or just able to hit a cruiser or battlecruiser?
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A8ina
Cyber Naval Command Research and Development
32
|
Posted - 2016.12.18 17:05:28 -
[25] - Quote
I've been around some big and small fleet fights, I can say the small fleet attacks in foreign territory is the most fun , Big fleet operations with Battle ships and Capital ships is to slow and many times you get stood up when the other fleet decides not to take you on . +æ+++++++¦
If they get around 2000 to 3000 maX in DPS will not be that extreme , and this ship can be the poor man's Capital ship defense |
A8ina
Cyber Naval Command Research and Development
32
|
Posted - 2016.12.18 17:15:37 -
[26] - Quote
powdemonic Ellecon wrote:how about a capital ship that can field 8 anti sub cap guns, but no siege mod, and can use capital mods and rigs but have about 200,000 hit points with maxed out tank? it is an idea that may or may not make sense but the idea from this post is a bit more of a on paper idea
This idea is completely the opposite of what I'm trying to express here the goal is to diversify and give purpose to all ships in the fleet , if you are able to control the battlefield with only Capital ships then it won't be use for the rest and have no purpose in the game |
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5058
|
Posted - 2016.12.18 18:19:49 -
[27] - Quote
A8ina wrote:I've been around some big and small fleet fights, I can say the small fleet attacks in foreign territory is the most fun , Big fleet operations with Battle ships and Capital ships is to slow and many times you get stood up when the other fleet decides not to take you on . +æ+++++++¦If they get around 2000 to 3000 maX in DPS will not be that extreme , and this ship can be the poor man's Capital ship defense
And why would I pay 3 billion for a dread when paying at most half that for three cruisers will do exactly the same job in a faster hull?
Which is the point I have been asking you to answer all along. Why would anyone fly a dread if they can fly a cruiser to do the same job easier? |
Dior Ambraelle
University of Caille Gallente Federation
21
|
Posted - 2016.12.18 19:08:48 -
[28] - Quote
powdemonic Ellecon wrote:how about a capital ship that can field 8 anti sub cap guns, but no siege mod, and can use capital mods and rigs but have about 200,000 hit points with maxed out tank? it is an idea that may or may not make sense but the idea from this post is a bit more of a on paper idea 8 anti sub cap guns and 200k HP? That seems like a battleship to me. Capital rigs would only make it more expensive, as each rig costs a ship, but it won't have different effect than a large rig would give. Also, using capital shield booster or armor repair modules would deplete the capacitor in 10 seconds. With cap usage reduction for these modules it would be an OP solo ship, giving it enough cap recharge to use them would also allow to use multiple large modules more efficiently.
If you want an intelligent argument, please do, I'm up for it!
But if you want a trolling contest, I will win it by simply not participating.
|
A8ina
Cyber Naval Command Research and Development
32
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Posted - 2016.12.18 20:27:03 -
[29] - Quote
Danika you're talking about a million + HP on a Dread of course and it's worth every ISK it can take a lots of punishment.
The ship I am talking about when it has to use it's weapons it will be a sitting duck a flimsy Cruiser with targeting range around the 30k at optimal range
Is more like strategic weapon , for example you have to knock out the Raider infrastructure and SAM to bring in the air force |
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5059
|
Posted - 2016.12.18 20:32:23 -
[30] - Quote
In a cap fight, any dread used is probably going to die. If a titan looks at it, it's dead. if a super looks at it, it's dead. if it's called primary, it's dead. if it's shooting a citadel and eats a doomsday, it's dead.
Why would I bother using my dread when I can use one of these things for a fraction of the price? |
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Escalating Entropy
11171
|
Posted - 2016.12.18 21:10:02 -
[31] - Quote
A8ina wrote:Danika you're talking about a million + HP on a Dread of course and it's worth every ISK it can take a lots of punishment.
The ship I am talking about when it has to use it's weapons it will be a sitting duck a flimsy Cruiser with targeting range around the 30k at optimal range Yeeeeaaah... umm... here is the thing:
Speed and mobility are preferred over massive walls of HP that are "rooted" in one place for 5 minutes.
Hint: This is why many people have an issue with the Rorqual's new PANIC system. They want to be able to get their ship out ASAP, but the new system roots the ship down until support can arrive to save it. So the solution many have employed is to not use Rorqual at all and instead use the new Porpoise ship (which is very mobile).
This is also why battleships, which do pretty much what you are asking for (but on a paired down level), are generally passed over unless there is a structure bash and/or large amounts of RR involved.
And even then... HACs (with a quarter of the HP of battleships) are usually preferred. They can maneuver around the battlefield more easily and GTFO relatively quicker.
I would personally LOVE to fly around a highly mobile ship that can deal dreadnought level DPS. And I certainly would not limit my targets to capital ships. I would use it for EVERYTHING.
Why? Because all I would need to melt any subcaptial ship is range (which your limited targeting range would not stop me from achieving) and a few well placed shots (which proper maneuvering will get me).
And no... lack of tank would not be much of an issue. I have flown in cruisers and battlecruisers that have had minimal tank, but high speed and damage potential. As long as you keep speed up and keep your fleet scattered but within each other's firing range... you can nuke anything that threatens your group die in seconds.
This idea would make that tactic grossly effective.
How did you Veterans start?
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3428
|
Posted - 2016.12.18 21:21:46 -
[32] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:A8ina wrote:Danika you're talking about a million + HP on a Dread of course and it's worth every ISK it can take a lots of punishment.
The ship I am talking about when it has to use it's weapons it will be a sitting duck a flimsy Cruiser with targeting range around the 30k at optimal range Yeeeeaaah... umm... here is the thing: Speed and mobility are preferred over massive walls of HP that are "rooted" in one place for 5 minutes. Hint: This is why many people have an issue with the Rorqual's new PANIC system. They want to be able to get their ship out ASAP, but the new system roots the ship down until support can arrive to save it. So the solution many have employed is to not use Rorqual at all and instead use the new Porpoise ship (which is very mobile). This is also why battleships, which do pretty much what you are asking for (but on a paired down level), are generally passed over unless there is a structure bash and/or large amounts of RR involved. And even then... HACs (with a quarter of the HP of battleships) are usually preferred. They can maneuver around the battlefield more easily and GTFO relatively quicker. I would personally LOVE to fly around a highly mobile ship that can deal dreadnought level DPS. And I certainly would not limit my targets to capital ships. I would use it for EVERYTHING. Why? Because all I would need to melt any subcaptial ship is range (which your limited targeting range would not stop me from achieving) and a few well placed shots (which proper maneuvering will get me). And no... lack of tank would not be much of an issue. I have flown in cruisers and battlecruisers that have had minimal tank, but high speed and damage potential. As long as you keep speed up and keep your fleet scattered but within each other's firing range... you can nuke anything that threatens your group die in seconds. This idea would make that tactic grossly effective.
trying to explain this to someone that doesn't understand the mechanics of combat in eve is about as useful as telling it to a wall
BLOPS Hauler
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Wimzy Chent-Shi
korpa pYco
95
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Posted - 2016.12.18 21:52:39 -
[33] - Quote
hahahaha... dread dps destroyer... sounds fun... easily alphaed when they have to remain stationary, that would be counterable. But just think of what you can do with it in highsec and think again about posting this stuff.
Come get some cancer @ my blog !
"This clash of opinions is like cutting onions.
We are creating something here, that's productive,
...and then there is also salt."
-Wimzy 2016
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A8ina
Cyber Naval Command Research and Development
32
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Posted - 2016.12.18 21:58:26 -
[34] - Quote
the ship it won't be able to move when the special module is active and with signature resolution of around 2000 will not do much damage to sub capitals .
I avoided involving battleships due to their signature radius sense fighters can counter them more effectively
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Escalating Entropy
11174
|
Posted - 2016.12.19 00:21:05 -
[35] - Quote
A8ina wrote:the ship it won't be able to move when the special module is active and with signature resolution of around 2000 will not do much damage to sub capitals .
I avoided involving battleships due to their signature radius sense fighters can counter them more effectively
Then capital ships will be able to one-shot them.
Hint: High-Angle weapons and light fighters are able to hit and apply good damage to battleships... ships that have a sig radius of 350 to 400.
Or they will replace dreds entirely in massive engagements where tank has little to no meaning.
How did you Veterans start?
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Mala Zvitorepka
A.I.R.
1
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Posted - 2016.12.19 09:00:42 -
[36] - Quote
The only way this would be semi-balanced is by requiring the ship to be completely dread-like. Requiring siege, no remote assistance, large sig radius while in siege. It would work great in hisec structure bashes as you can't have dreads there, but it would be useless in any larger 0.0 engagement as it would be destroyed immediately. Dreads die fast and are an expensive loss, but such ships would easily die more than 10x faster and would be still about 1/4 of the price (fitted). |
powdemonic Ellecon
Moosearmy Moose Federation
6
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Posted - 2016.12.19 09:11:46 -
[37] - Quote
Slayer Liberator wrote:powdemonic Ellecon wrote:how about a capital ship that can field 8 anti sub cap guns, but no siege mod, and can use capital mods and rigs but have about 200,000 hit points with maxed out tank? it is an idea that may or may not make sense but the idea from this post is a bit more of a on paper idea By anti- subcap do you mean able to hit a frig or dessy or just able to hit a cruiser or battlecruiser? cruiser and above mostly it may glance a destroyers shields maybe but it should have a weakness that every cap has obviusly |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2992
|
Posted - 2016.12.19 15:47:21 -
[38] - Quote
This is less a rock-paper-scissors game and more a game in which the slightly larger ship wins. If your ship is a bit smaller than your opponent's ship, you will usually lose that fight. But if you're a lot smaller, you can skate by and give them a pressed fruit bowl as you pass.
Your destroyer has little to fear from Danica's Nyx, so why are you so bent on taking it down with a destroyer? Give the poor girl a break.
FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."
Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
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Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues
Hookers N' Blow
21
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Posted - 2016.12.19 16:58:03 -
[39] - Quote
Buff Svipul.
Nuff Said.
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A8ina
Cyber Naval Command Research and Development
32
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Posted - 2016.12.19 21:19:52 -
[40] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:This is less a rock-paper-scissors game and more a game in which the slightly larger ship wins. If your ship is a bit smaller than your opponent's ship, you will usually lose that fight. But if you're a lot smaller, you can skate by and give them a pressed fruit bowl as you pass.
Your destroyer has little to fear from Danica's Nyx, so why are you so bent on taking it down with a destroyer? Give the poor girl a break.
Here's the way it works: Titan beats Supercarrier Supercapital beats Capital Dreadnought beats Carrier Dreadnought and Carrier beats Battleship Battleship beats Battlecruiser Battlecruiser beats Cruiser Cruiser beats Destroyer Strategic Cruiser beats Destroyer Strategic Cruiser beats Cruiser Strategic Cruiser beats Battlecruiser Strategic Cruiser beats Battleship Strategic Cruiser beats Pirate Faction Battleship Strategic Cruiser beats two Pirate Faction Battleships at once Destroyer beats Frigate Interceptor beats Frigate Caldari and Amarr beat Gallente Minmatar beats Everybody Nobody beats Interceptor Claw is the only invincible ship in the game.
If you want to beat a ship with stuff the same size or smaller, you have to gang up in superior numbers. Two titans beats one titan. A thousand frigates beats Marlona Sky's Moros. A few hundred Pandemic Legion strategic cruisers beats ten thousand frigates. A dozen TEST capitals beats a hundred IT capitals. It's all a game of numbers.
OK OK you convinced me |
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Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
866
|
Posted - 2016.12.19 21:30:26 -
[41] - Quote
A8ina wrote:I've been around some big and small fleet fights, I can say the small fleet attacks in foreign territory is the most fun , Big fleet operations with Battle ships and Capital ships is to slow and many times you get stood up when the other fleet decides not to take you on . +æ+++++++¦If they get around 2000 to 3000 maX in DPS will not be that extreme , and this ship can be the poor man's Capital ship defense
You've been around a lot of fights given 56 kills in six years, and not having done anything for four years?
Interesting. |
James Zimmer
D3RP Clan Elemental Tide
71
|
Posted - 2016.12.19 23:55:55 -
[42] - Quote
I like the general concept, but I think a T2 attack battlecruiser with a third of the DPS of a dread would be more balanced in tems of cost, damage output and vulnerability (plus it just makes sense given what attack battlecruisers do right now).
Also, for those of you who say that capitals need a support fleet, I invite you to look at carriers. At not too significant numbers, they begin to alpha off any subcap in the game, from an interceptor to a well-tanked Rattlesnake. They need a counter that is not a dread-bomb or supers, and this could be the perfect counter. Sure, they would die quickly, but they could win the ISK war if there isn't a proper subcap fleet to counter them
Finally, dreads are in a bad place right now, but their need for a buff doesn't invalidate this concept. |
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5076
|
Posted - 2016.12.20 00:01:43 -
[43] - Quote
James Zimmer wrote:I like the general concept, but I think a T2 attack battlecruiser with a third of the DPS of a dread would be more balanced in tems of cost, damage output and vulnerability (plus it just makes sense given what attack battlecruisers do right now).
Also, for those of you who say that capitals need a support fleet, I invite you to look at carriers. At not too significant numbers, they begin to alpha off any subcap in the game, from an interceptor to a well-tanked Rattlesnake. They need a counter that is not a dread-bomb or supers, and this could be the perfect counter. Sure, they would die quickly, but they could win the ISK war if there isn't a proper subcap fleet to counter them
But your idea is exactly the same as the OPs idea in that it renders dreads completely worthless? |
James Zimmer
D3RP Clan Elemental Tide
71
|
Posted - 2016.12.20 00:06:36 -
[44] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:James Zimmer wrote:I like the general concept, but I think a T2 attack battlecruiser with a third of the DPS of a dread would be more balanced in tems of cost, damage output and vulnerability (plus it just makes sense given what attack battlecruisers do right now).
Also, for those of you who say that capitals need a support fleet, I invite you to look at carriers. At not too significant numbers, they begin to alpha off any subcap in the game, from an interceptor to a well-tanked Rattlesnake. They need a counter that is not a dread-bomb or supers, and this could be the perfect counter. Sure, they would die quickly, but they could win the ISK war if there isn't a proper subcap fleet to counter them But your idea is exactly the same as the OPs idea in that it renders dreads completely worthless?
In the era of fighters that can go 2000km, dreads are already borderline completely worthless. They need a serious buff, but that goes beyond the scope of this thread. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2995
|
Posted - 2016.12.20 19:31:53 -
[45] - Quote
James Zimmer wrote:Also, for those of you who say that capitals need a support fleet, I invite you to look at carriers. At not too significant numbers, they begin to alpha off any subcap in the game, from an interceptor to a well-tanked Rattlesnake. The Rattlesnake they can kill easily. Carriers are particularly good at killing tough battleships. Even a single carrier can rip apart a well-tanked Rattlesnake. The only way the Rattler will be able to stand up to that DPS is either if it's biased toward a certain resist profile or if it's tank isn't sustainable. Give it about 2-3 minutes tops, the tank will break.
Interceptors, not a chance. With no support fleet, an interceptor could land on the field, perform complex reconnaissance maneuvers, and zip out of there while the carriers are still locking target. Let's say the carriers do manage to lock target, they're going to need to web and paint the interceptor just to get fighters to be able to hit it. Given that the interceptor has the supreme mobility advantage even if the carriers manage to hit it with high-end webs, it can simply move out of web range and there's nothing the carriers can do about it. They can paint it and shoot it but they're not likely to do much short of 3 painters on one interceptor, and that's if it isn't afterburner fit. I haven't tested it, but I've a hunch based on fighter attributes that if you don't paint the interceptor, the fighters' own movement will cause them to miss the target even if it's sitting still. So no.
FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."
Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
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James Zimmer
D3RP Clan Elemental Tide
71
|
Posted - 2016.12.21 01:22:14 -
[46] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote: edit: I'm looking into the carrier changes and I see that they may have a FAR greater ability to shoot down small ships than they did previously, but I am finding it difficult to decipher the mechanics. I really hope this isn't the case. Carriers should NOT be able to easily solo cruisers and below.
I can't make heads or tails of the stats either, but from what I've seen, carriers apply well to cruisers and above. They lose a lot of DPS when they're shooting frigates, but they're not even close to helpless. They have web fighters to deal with speed/sig tanks and fighters that go 8.5k/sec (all level 5, no drone speed modules) for people who try to rely on pure speed. Oh, and they have a module which allows them to lock almost as fast as a destroyer without even using sensor boosters. Did I mention they can engage from 2000km away?
Their main weaknesses are relatively low DPS and uninspiring tanks compared to dreads, but with 20-30 of them massed, I'm not aware of a subcap fleet in the game (outside of stealth bombers) that can stay on the field. |
GROUND XERO
Rennfeuer Project.Mayhem.
12
|
Posted - 2016.12.23 07:05:26 -
[47] - Quote
Posted this somewhere else like 2 mounth ago :_) ... but for everything else that would kill supers you can count me in!
Future ship ideas in EVE Technology and Research Center
I only need one ship: Fire ship (which has a long tradition when it comes to suicide on smaller ship on a real big ship!!!)
T3 bc sized ship (aka you gonna loose skillpoints :_))
- rolebonus: can use t2 cloack (aka warping cloacked) - dmg: same like DD if you hit a capital ship by driving into it with at least 75% of speed!
slots:
High -1x for the super mine
Meds -5x
low -5x
Name: Kamikaze
EPIC ship idea!!! would cure SUPER-CANCER Roll |
elitatwo
Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1535
|
Posted - 2016.12.24 02:43:35 -
[48] - Quote
James Zimmer wrote:...In the era of fighters that can go 2000km, dreads are already borderline completely worthless. They need a serious buff, but that goes beyond the scope of this thread.
What you mean was, "in an era were a pointed carrier with maybe a capital afterburner moves at 200m/s, a Dread will sit for 5 minutes and solo it - every time."
Eve Minions is recruiting.
This is the law of ship progression!
Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2996
|
Posted - 2016.12.24 06:55:20 -
[49] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:What you mean was, "in an era were a pointed carrier with maybe a capital afterburner moves at 200m/s, a Dread will sit for 5 minutes and solo it - every time." Sure dreads can beat carriers. But try and mobilize a dread fleet to attack a carrier fleet. If you even manage to lock them down, you're going to have a hell of a time getting them to stay locked down. They can pop bubbles and HICs like they were bubble wrap, then jump out.
FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."
Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
|
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5088
|
Posted - 2016.12.24 13:02:26 -
[50] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:elitatwo wrote:What you mean was, "in an era were a pointed carrier with maybe a capital afterburner moves at 200m/s, a Dread will sit for 5 minutes and solo it - every time." Sure dreads can beat carriers. But try and mobilize a dread fleet to attack a carrier fleet. If you even manage to lock them down, you're going to have a hell of a time getting them to stay locked down. They can pop bubbles and HICs like they were bubble wrap, then jump out.
Paper can beat rock every time, it's totally overpowered. |
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