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Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.04.18 18:46:00 - [31] Originally by: GimmeeThat Originally by: Roue Some of the posts in here just amaze me. It's obvious enough of you detest privateer alliance. Things are getting changed, don't you fret now. Eve will become just real life, void of personal responsibility. I see the approach of EVE liability lawyers soon on the horizon. Yes we war dec'd tens of thousands of people. It amazes me that our 700 vs I think the estimate was 40,000 puts us as the bad guys. How often I sat in systems with a dozen enemies, all alone, and killed them 1 by 1 as they undocked. It doesn't matter. I've spent 3 years convincing dozens and dozens of people to join EVE, helped them find their niche, been a part of things grand and small. In the end it's changed, it's becoming another animal for another type of customer. This has happened before and it will happen again in this game and many others. Shame I get no respect at all for what I've done. Bring a hundred people to a game to enrich it and support it. And be condemned for blowing up pixels that someone else was too lazy and careless to protect. Well at least I know I follow and not precede much of the community I knew in leaving. I have a new game for you. Fill a big bucket full of water in your backyard. Go to the pet store and purchase 10 gold fish. Put the fish in a bucket. Next put a chair next to the bucket and have a seat. There you go we have recreated your eve experience! next. also watch out for that door as you exit. Come now, you've forgotten two things. 1) You need 400 goldfish, this is Jita you're trying to replicate. 2) The tech 2 shotgun with the five shell clip and the body armor. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Timmeh ([email protected])
Vincent Gaines Avis de Captura	Posted - 2007.04.18 18:47:00 - [32] Edited by: Vincent Gaines on 18/04/2007 18:43:44 Originally by: Roue Some of the posts in here just amaze me. It's obvious enough of you detest privateer alliance. Things are getting changed, don't you fret now. Eve will become just real life, void of personal responsibility. I see the approach of EVE liability lawyers soon on the horizon. Yes we war dec'd tens of thousands of people. It amazes me that our 700 vs I think the estimate was 40,000 puts us as the bad guys. How often I sat in systems with a dozen enemies, all alone, and killed them 1 by 1 as they undocked. It doesn't matter. I've spent 3 years convincing dozens and dozens of people to join EVE, helped them find their niche, been a part of things grand and small. In the end it's changed, it's becoming another animal for another type of customer. This has happened before and it will happen again in this game and many others. Shame I get no respect at all for what I've done. Bring a hundred people to a game to enrich it and support it. And be condemned for blowing up pixels that someone else was too lazy and careless to protect. Well at least I know I follow and not precede much of the community I knew in leaving. an alliance declaring war on a 10 man noob corp just for a couple more targets and no reason is low, but not bad in eve. doing it several times begins to make you look bad. Camping 4-4 and other hubs, only to pop people while in blackscreen is low. camping mission hubs, known deadspace gates, sitting on gates for hours waiting to pounce on anything that comes through (see the ibis kill by another PVTR in this very thread) is low. And again, none of these are uncommon in eve. The problem is the scale in which it was done. The problem was that war costs were next to nothing. You knew this, as did the founders of PVTR, I remember when it was founded that it was one of the reasons it was done. War costs were bound to change eventually, the issue was brought up even before privateers was created. The thing is that the Privateers made the flaw very apparent and to the forefront. It was to the point that PVTR was war-dec'ing almost on a whim. I liked the idea when it was first presented. Then I began to see the camping, the small corp decs that other merc corps would usually ignore, but when you all dec'd Eve Uni it became apparent that you weren't looking for PvP but just a way to rack up kills. 0.0 is the 'endgame' and where you can go to ALWAYS get a fight. you can fight each other to your heart's content. you can also fight the same 70+ corps/alliance and even cnotinue the same practice. The difference is that there's a stacking penalty. Just as with WCS and every other aspect of the game that was abused and taken to extremes.
000Hunter000 Gallente Magners Marauders	Posted - 2007.04.18 18:47:00 - [33] So PA did something they knew would get people on their hind legs, then they are surprised that ccp did something about it? Anyways i'm hearing all about that change but where can the exact details be found? i looked at the latest patchnots and several blogs but can't find any info on it? can anyone post a link on where a dev (or any ccp member) posted these changes?? Or was it just snuck in with the lates server fix downtime?
Exlegion New Light KnightRaven Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.18 19:20:00 - [34] Edited by: Exlegion on 18/04/2007 19:17:02 Originally by: 000Hunter000 So PA did something they knew would get people on their hind legs, then they are surprised that ccp did something about it? Anyways i'm hearing all about that change but where can the exact details be found? i looked at the latest patchnots and several blogs but can't find any info on it? can anyone post a link on where a dev (or any ccp member) posted these changes?? Or was it just snuck in with the lates server fix downtime? Here ya go. Scroll down towards the bottom of the page. One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Guru
Crusix Bargoth Amarr Meridian Dynamics FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.18 19:23:00 - [35] Real damn shame, wasn't it some PVTR motto "Real Men PVP in Empire" ? Wouldn't a real man whine less? So you brought some people to the game, props....you where still the one station camping people who didn't want to pvp, ruining THEIR gameplay, just because you could. Hold up, I hear the whambulance coming bud, sit tight now! Originally by: Kaathar Rielspar nerf ponies!!1one
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2007.04.18 19:23:00 - [36] Originally by: 000Hunter000 So PA did something they knew would get people on their hind legs, then they are surprised that ccp did something about it? Anyways i'm hearing all about that change but where can the exact details be found? i looked at the latest patchnots and several blogs but can't find any info on it? can anyone post a link on where a dev (or any ccp member) posted these changes?? Or was it just snuck in with the lates server fix downtime? Here is from the Dev Blog: Quote: Previously a war issued by an alliance would cost 50M + 50M/week. If the alliance or corporation being warred against was already the victim of another war that fee would increase by 50M for each war declared against the victim. Money-grubbing CONCORD has decided that the number of wars declared by the aggressor will now also count to increase the war prices and the larger of the two is used to determine the war instigation and upkeep fees. Example: Alliance P has ten wars in progress. They will have to pay 500M/war/week to keep the war machine running. If they now declare war on the eleventh corporation or alliance that war will cost 550M to start and the upkeep cost will be 550M/war/week for all the wars until any of the wars is canceled. This is an important matter of game-balance and we're happy we're finally getting it in. To the OP: I'm sorry to hear you go. But you KNEW this would happen, or something like it, at some point. Had the Privateers stuck with their initial concept of attacking the "big" 0.0 Alliances, most likely nothing would have happened. But then they started taking on any contract, for any reason. And even bragged about 149 wars happening at one time (there are that many "big" alliances?). Then proclaimed that there were going to do more of those "let's shoot everything, wardec everyone" parties. Hardly unexpected to be nerfed, hardly fitting with the entire philosophy of war. Even EvE's concept of PvP doesn't agree with that philosophy from how I read the Devs' comments. EvE is not a FPS, you have counter-strike for that. So I will miss your posts, but rejoice in the concept that EvE is going the right direction. <-----------> Keiron: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=427556&page=2 PvE and/or PvP is not something that appeals to the entire player base
Bistot Kid The First Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2007.04.18 19:36:00 - [37] Ta ta. If you won't give your stuff away, make sure you destroy it, won't you? I forsee that the market is going to be flooded with Tiny Tears dolls soon, with all these PA whiners crying off. ------------------------------------- Hold my calls and sack my cook -------------------------------------
Roue Alcoholics R' Us Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.18 19:39:00 - [38] I understand alot of your comments and posts. Though I think that alot of them are full of assumptions. The jita, fish in a barrel, the 10 man noob corps. I believe more that over half our war decs are large alliances with thousands of members. I know it's equivalent to like 40,000 people. It's not a walk in the park, and it's not our fault that the vast majority of our targets don't fight back and just roll over and die in expensive things. We, believe it or not, have no additional skills to access or ships to fly that are denied the rest of the games players, let alone our targets. I'm not whining either. If you think I whined you are mistaken. Is it whining to complain that BoB cheated, knowingly and comment the absense of repercution that had for them or their leadership? Is it a whine to unsubscribe as a statement that you no longer wish to pay for a service because of where it is going? No a whine is coming on the forums with unproductive commentary. I don't want the game changed just because. But I did want to reminisce, say adios, and state my reasons. Because that is how the community knows how it's diverse components react to what's going on, when people post about it. So this is just me saying it's a shame, been here along time, contributed alot, wish you all the best. And maybe if making pvp fun is achieved again I'll be back. But it isn't. period. And privateers was the only opportunity for me to get my dozens of small scale engagements and 1v1's. It was the only remaining fun. Would have been more fun if all our targets fought back too. To those with the don't let the door hit you on the way out comments. I'm glad my thread gave you an opportunity to flex your forum e-peen prowess with unnecessary commentary. Shame I am so apathetic to your words I would need a frontal lobotomy to care a sliver more. Got my fingers crossed for factional warfare. It's in my mind the last best hope for pvp in this game. This is my opinion not that of privateer corp, alliance, its member corps, affiliates, minions, pet animals, ex girlfriends, former roommates, 3rd grade gym teachers, late relatives, ontime relatives,
Bistot Kid The First Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2007.04.18 19:45:00 - [39] Originally by: Roue I believe more that over half our war decs are large alliances with thousands of members. I know it's equivalent to like 40,000 people. Isn't that the point of the nerf? To allow you to keep up a good lot of war decs, while not just having and all you can eat turkey shoot? Has anyone actually worked out how many wars that PA can continue to fight? Has anyone really worked out that it will have that much of a detrimental effect? Even if you could keep up a fifth of your current alliance wars against the biggest juciest alliances, then you'll still have tons of targets and be true the Privateers original ethos. Everyone who is really crying about this nerf just wants a fish an a barrel grief fest. Full stop. ------------------------------------- Hold my calls and sack my cook -------------------------------------
Thesas Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2007.04.18 19:53:00 - [40] Under the prior system, new players in Eve were obliged to forego any effort to form a player corp. unless they were willing to accept a target being painted upon their backside. That is not a viable method to introduce new players to game. It was reminiscent of vacationing in the states in Miami where a rental car license plate and roadmap in your hands labels you a ônoobö. You must explore cautiously with map kept down to avoid being shot at a traffic light. When someone lies bleeding on the curb with strangers rifling through your luggage in broad daylight, it makes one regret going at all.. That was Eve prior to this change and tourism suffers in such conditions. The makers of Eve must be pragmatic in creating an environment where players of all experience levels may coexist. War can still be waged in Empire, but not by indiscriminately slaughtering the masses. There are people who wish nothing more than to start fresh in a new game with friends in a noob corp, yet they could not. NPC corps are huge and fail at providing the conditions to create a small community of friends. It would behoove CCP to recognize that the current state of MMOs is such that countless would be gamers are searching for a new game. With the fading of EQ and the demise of itÆs would be successor, Vanguard, it was time for a change. Factor in the exodus of many disgruntled gamers hemorrhaging from the current 500 pound gorilla of MMOs, and CCP has an excellent opportunity for Eve. CCP was wise to improve the initial environment of Eve to accommodate new people.
Rhaegor Stormborn Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2007.04.18 20:00:00 - [41] Sorry that you do not like the changes. I feel the war dec system was being abused, and personally welcome the changes. Hope you find another game you enjoy as much as you enjoyed Eve Online.
Khaie	Posted - 2007.04.18 20:31:00 - [42] Originally by: Thesas Under the prior system, new players in Eve were obliged to forego any effort to form a player corp. unless they were willing to accept a target being painted upon their backside. That is not a viable method to introduce new players to game. As a noob fresh to this game I must say I support the change for this very reason. After being podded and camped on my original character by a couple of Privateers, I decided to roll another character and decline any corp invitations, just to be able to play in a somewhat safe environment while I develop my skills enough to be able to stand a chance in these situations. For the most part I feel like I'm now playing a single player game and had been considering leaving the game just one month after signing up. This can't be good for CCP. What I've never understood is, why this even started. Isn't there PvP readily available in lower sec space? Isn't the competition there a little more challenging and exciting? And if challenging the larger alliances is really the goal here, how have these new rules changed anything? This is simply removing the ability to cherry pick rather than bellying up to the bar and walking the talk.
Conwright Something Else	Posted - 2007.04.18 20:43:00 - [43] Edited by: Conwright on 18/04/2007 20:39:05 Originally by: Thesas What I've never understood is, why this even started. Isn't there PvP readily available in lower sec space? Isn't the competition there a little more challenging and exciting? Most of low sec is completely barren. 0.0 is almost worse except you get systems where entire alliances like to hang out... so it goes empty-empty-empty-empty-blob-empty-empty-empty etc.
Khaie	Posted - 2007.04.18 20:46:00 - [44] Originally by: Conwright Edited by: Conwright on 18/04/2007 20:39:05 Originally by: Thesas What I've never understood is, why this even started. Isn't there PvP readily available in lower sec space? Isn't the competition there a little more challenging and exciting? Most of low sec is completely barren. 0.0 is almost worse except you get systems where entire alliances like to hang out... so it goes empty-empty-empty-empty-blob-empty-empty-empty etc. Ahhh... yeah that doesn't sound fun. That said, I hope CCP is doing something to make things a bit more exciting out there to balance this out.
Haks'he Lirky Durgar og Illmenni	Posted - 2007.04.18 20:49:00 - [45] Originally by: Roue I understand alot of your comments and posts. Though I think that alot of them are full of assumptions. The jita, fish in a barrel, the 10 man noob corps. I believe more that over half our war decs are large alliances with thousands of members. I know it's equivalent to like 40,000 people. Declaring war on 40 thousand people in EVE is why it's called fish in a barrel, you dont really have to research your enemy, you dont even have a specific enemy, you just wander around trying to shoot fish in a barrel. woohooo there is a war target in local!¿It's a lottery with pretty high chances of scoring the jackpot (jackpot being targets). It's lazy pvp/ganking, and yes I understand that it was most probably fun but it was lazy... Free for All is not something that should go on in empire, free for alls can be fun, but they dont fit in empire. Declare on a corp, find out where they work, use location agents, track your targets and destroy their ships. Flying random paths through space looking for targets is lazy and saying that your dont like the rest of pvp in eve only means you really dont want to work for your pvp experience.. I respect that in a sense since it is pretty hard to get empire fun. I dont like 0.0 blobs, Titan DD or most of the things that go on in 0.0 pvp warfare today. But I dont like walking through empire getting free kills because I have 40k people on my warlist. Again, it's lazy, your not quiting eve because PRIV was nerfed, your quitting eve because your lazy and you dont want to work for your pvp experience. Have fun..
Ardvaark Ratnik	Posted - 2007.04.18 20:59:00 - [46] Can I have your Isk instead of your stuff?
Penny Priddy	Posted - 2007.04.18 21:12:00 - [47] Originally by: Roue No a whine is coming on the forums with unproductive commentary. SPANG Dammit! Do you know how much those irony meters cost to replace?
The Internets	Posted - 2007.04.18 21:12:00 - [48] Originally by: Crusix Bargoth Real damn shame, wasn't it some PVTR motto "Real Men PVP in Empire" ? Wouldn't a real man whine less? So you brought some people to the game, props....you where still the one station camping people who didn't want to pvp, ruining THEIR gameplay, just because you could. Hold up, I hear the whambulance coming bud, sit tight now! Gee, I wonder why the Privateers got nerfed? Absolutely nothing to do with the months and months of whiney carebears spamming the forums about how completely powerless they were to adapt and fight back against the relatively tiny groups (compared to 0.0 blobs) of Privateers sitting in market hubs. Aren't we a hypocrite.
Sieges	Posted - 2007.04.18 21:19:00 - [49] I don't think this change was for the worse. The main thing that kept me shy of player corps is becoming an immediate target. With this change you can still have plenty of PVP, just not with the entire galaxy at once
Thesas Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2007.04.18 21:29:00 - [50] Originally by: Roue It's not a walk in the park, and it's not our fault that the vast majority of our targets don't fight back and just roll over and die in expensive things. I would submit that yes, it is. If ôthe vast majority of your targets donÆt fight back and just roll over and die in expensive things,ö then ask why that is so. How many new players walked away in disgust at the sight of entrenched power ruling the game play of others? Perhaps the vast majority of those dieing people wished no part of your preferred style of game play and preferred other pursuits in Empire? If 0.0 space is so lacking in targets for the pvp player that Empire non combatant style players is the only viable target for your fun, then think about what that says. The wounded noises ring somewhat disingenuous.
Makran Caldari Expeditionary Fleet 1 Te-Ka	Posted - 2007.04.18 21:50:00 - [51] I hate to see anyone quit playing EVE. However, I tend to agree with the decision the Devs made in this case. While I enjoyed running into empire and losing my Thorax the one time I was able to engage the Privateers during our shortlived war, I think that the war system needed modification. Nowadays 50 mil is chump change for any alliance, even empire based ones, and to me, that just doesn't sit right anyway. However, even with the new changes, dec'ing on a few of the major alliances is still cost effective, and with the sizes of those alliances, there will still be much flashing red in empire. Good luck in whatever game you chose to go with, but I hope you'll come back and see that things really aren't as bad as some say. ===== Space-Ninjas are mammals too.
Illyria Ambri Caldari	Posted - 2007.04.18 21:53:00 - [52] Originally by: Roue How often I sat in systems with a dozen enemies, all alone, and killed them 1 by 1 as they undocked. Shame I get no respect at all for what I've done. Question and answer in same post.. very effecient ------------ This is not War... This is pest control - Dalek Sek Happiness is a warm railgun, Love is a stocked missle launcher. Sexual extacy is watching that NME Battleship go boom. "Will i
GimmeeThat	Posted - 2007.04.18 21:54:00 - [53] serious question, if you where running a business and 40k customers like your product one way and 600 customers like your product another way, which group would you try to cater to?
Adaris D-L	Posted - 2007.04.18 21:56:00 - [54] bye... its sad you quit because you can't do what you like... Can I have 'some' of your stuff? * * * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euZ0j7vtKEQ
RedFall Irreligion	Posted - 2007.04.18 21:59:00 - [55] Edited by: RedFall on 18/04/2007 21:55:52 Originally by: GimmeeThat serious question, if you where running a business and 40k customers like your product one way and 600 customers like your product another way, which group would you try to cater to? What does Eve Online have to do with the catering business? I mean, how the hell can you do a catering business over the internets? Huh? That's just weird. You would clog up all the intertubes with all the food.
Illyria Ambri Caldari	Posted - 2007.04.18 22:02:00 - [56] I do like how privateers whine that they were wardecing the largest corps and should get props for it... Funny how 90% of those corps are 0.0 based and only the occasional hauler or lone pilot wanders around empire... The vast majority of their supposed targets hang out in 0.0 where privateers fear to tread... Guess that left only the thousands of easy empire dweller targets as they undock. ------------ This is not War... This is pest control - Dalek Sek Happiness is a warm railgun, Love is a stocked missle launcher. Sexual extacy is watching that NME Battleship go boom. "Will i
Dimitrios Ypsilanti	Posted - 2007.04.18 22:08:00 - [57] Originally by: Roue 4/22/2004 - 4/18/2007 No! He's really going to do it! Quick! Reverse the patch! Somebody do something!
Gamesguy Amarr E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.04.18 22:08:00 - [58] Originally by: Thesas Originally by: Roue It's not a walk in the park, and it's not our fault that the vast majority of our targets don't fight back and just roll over and die in expensive things. I would submit that yes, it is. If ôthe vast majority of your targets donÆt fight back and just roll over and die in expensive things,ö then ask why that is so. How many new players walked away in disgust at the sight of entrenched power ruling the game play of others? 80% of the pvrt wardecs were against 0.0 territorial alliances like us. Territorial alliances by definition must have a capable pvp force. Only idiots get ganked by privateers. Quote: Perhaps the vast majority of those dieing people wished no part of your preferred style of game play and preferred other pursuits in Empire? The vast majority of the dying people are in pvp alliances. You would have a point of the privateers wardeced empire industrial corps exclusively, but they dont. And since when is pvp in eve consentual? What is ccp gonna nerf pirating next because their targets "wished no part of your preferred style of game play"? Quote: If 0.0 space is so lacking in targets for the pvp player that Empire non combatant style players is the only viable target for your fun, then think about what that says. The wounded noises ring somewhat disingenuous. How is a 0.0 pvper any less of a pvper because s/he is in empire?
Mroe Bree Minmatar Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.18 22:36:00 - [59] Oh ffs, plently of people people whine about drones being broken, new regions being broken, group missions being broken, <insert your favorite overpowered mod combo of the month> being broken. You don't see that being fixed why? Being able to wardec all of highsec was a SERIOUS GAME BREAKING BUG not a feature. It got fixed sooner than other bugs because it was clearly evident that it was detrimental to the continued growth of EvE. Forcing new players to stay in noobcorps because they (wrongly) feel they have no chance against people with 20-40x their SP and 100-1000x their ISK resources was not good, mmmkay? Fighting privateers was not done because there was no way to win. Privateers were in it for the ganks, everyone else was there for something else. Even if you gank a privateer a few times he'll just come back for more. You could fight and play undock games all week long and gain nothing. Anyway, you still have PLENTY of targets. As others have said, research your war targets, stalk em, gank em. Go to lowsec and find plenty of targets. Hell, I'm camped in a station by 13 people in a .2 this very second. Is that enough targets for you? Feel free to contract your stuff to me, I'll make good use of it.
Vasiliyan Gallente Ordnace Research and Development	Posted - 2007.04.18 22:48:00 - [60] Originally by: Illyria Ambri Originally by: Roue How often I sat in systems with a dozen enemies, all alone, and killed them 1 by 1 as they undocked. Shame I get no respect at all for what I've done. Question and answer in same post.. very efficient Illyria is right. The thing is, there is really no such thing as nonconsensual PvP in a computer game. You cannot make people fight; if they don't want to, they will go to NPC corps, stay docked, log off, or cancel their accounts. So in Eve we have the consensual PvP zone (0.0), the PvP-with-traveller/defender-advantage zone (lowsec), and the zero risk zone (highsec), and people can choose where they want to be. Turning highsec into a PvP zone will just empty it. --------- Currently offering high-sec POS standings service for 0.5 systems within the Gallente Federation. Evemail me for details.

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