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Mikkir Freelance Mining Company 17	Posted - 2017.02.02 05:02:23 - [1] - Quote Just curious, what are the worst battleships in the game right now? I get some ships are niche ships, like the rokh being a fleet ship, but which ones are just terrible?
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 5259	Posted - 2017.02.02 05:24:54 - [2] - Quote Worst for what exactly? I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Mikkir Freelance Mining Company 17	Posted - 2017.02.02 05:37:35 - [3] - Quote I was thinking about which ship fails to fill any niche, but I've been away from the game for a while so I don't have the feeling for it I use to have. I know the tempest use to be considered pretty poor, not sure if the rate of fire bonus made made it more popular.
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 5259	Posted - 2017.02.02 06:31:53 - [4] - Quote I don't think there are necessarily any bad battleships, but if we're talking PvE missioning I would be very hesitant to use any of the T1s like the Rokh, Tempest, Abbadon, Scorpion, etc. Pirate Faction hulls have come down substantially in price and will literally outperform most if not all Navy battleships as well. As you pointed out, some of these ships are better-suited for PvP and fleet combat. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Boozbaz Brutor Clan 37	Posted - 2017.02.02 07:48:33 - [5] - Quote Tempest Fleet issue is bad value. The vanilla tempest has better bonuses than the fleet issue.
YeuxVerts Belle Viziam Amarr Empire 52	Posted - 2017.02.02 08:23:56 - [6] - Quote Boozbaz wrote: Tempest Fleet issue is bad value. The vanilla tempest has better bonuses than the fleet issue. Does that make it a bad ship? The above message presents my opinions on the topic at hand. If there is a conflict between my views and reality, consider reality to be correct until proven otherwise.
Andrew Indy Jedran Space Services 209	Posted - 2017.02.02 09:03:49 - [7] - Quote YeuxVerts Belle wrote: Boozbaz wrote: Tempest Fleet issue is bad value. The vanilla tempest has better bonuses than the fleet issue. Does that make it a bad ship? Well it has more Tank, an extra low slot and an extra flight of lights , but has less DPS (2.5% per level). So its better in several ways but also twice the price. For a few extra isk (tens of mil) you can get a Mach, Pretty much a Fleet tempest that swaps a free high for an extra gun (more DPS), gets even more drones, more speed, faster warp, faster align and better range. The main issue is that Pirate BPCs have come down in price too much due to farming. Not that long ago a Pirate BS was 1Bil which made the progression fine.
Gregorius Goldstein Ze One Man Show 1864	Posted - 2017.02.02 09:41:49 - [8] - Quote The Rokh seems to be a bit lackluster to me. That it is used with smartbombs most of the time is a bit sad.
Wolfgang Jannesen The Evesploratory Society 12	Posted - 2017.02.02 13:16:02 - [9] - Quote I actually get great use out of the Rokh with a MJD and rails. I'm not a fan of the Apocalypse, or maybe any T1 amarr battleship. Armour tanks are always very slow active tanks and it feels like trying to juggle enough capacitor, two reps, and still finding Scorch isn't as effective as I'd hoped it would be compared to even Barrage in large AC's. Paladin is a beast but it was a breeze fitting a cap stable dual rep tank on that golden God
elitatwo Dicker Quick and Hyde Defense Attorneys O.U.Z.O. Alliance 1588	Posted - 2017.02.02 19:50:36 - [10] - Quote Wolfgang Jannesen wrote: I actually get great use out of the Rokh with a MJD and rails. I'm not a fan of the Apocalypse, or maybe any T1 amarr battleship. Armour tanks are always very slow active tanks and it feels like trying to juggle enough capacitor, two reps, and still finding Scorch isn't as effective as I'd hoped it would be compared to even Barrage in large AC's. Paladin is a beast but it was a breeze fitting a cap stable dual rep tank on that golden God Rokh + 500mn mwd goes 832m/s Apocalypse + 500mn mwd goes 1077m/s Please elaborate what your perception of "slow armor battleship" means and someone please explain why someone would put 3x 1600mm armor plates on a kiting ship? Eve Minions is recruiting. This is the law of ship progression! Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
aldhura Perkone Caldari State 111	Posted - 2017.02.02 22:02:00 - [11] - Quote elitatwo wrote: Wolfgang Jannesen wrote: I actually get great use out of the Rokh with a MJD and rails. I'm not a fan of the Apocalypse, or maybe any T1 amarr battleship. Armour tanks are always very slow active tanks and it feels like trying to juggle enough capacitor, two reps, and still finding Scorch isn't as effective as I'd hoped it would be compared to even Barrage in large AC's. Paladin is a beast but it was a breeze fitting a cap stable dual rep tank on that golden God Rokh + 500mn mwd goes 832m/s Apocalypse + 500mn mwd goes 1077m/s Please elaborate what your perception of "slow armor battleship" means and someone please explain why someone would put 3x 1600mm armor plates on a kiting ship? It slows it down so its easier to fly around corners otherwise it would flip over
Valkin Mordirc 2687	Posted - 2017.02.02 22:07:35 - [12] - Quote Not to mention that the Naga completely over takes the Rohk as a rail sniper. Faster, better sensor strength, and better damage `#DeleteTheWeak`
Wolfgang Jannesen The Evesploratory Society 13	Posted - 2017.02.03 00:25:22 - [13] - Quote elitatwo wrote: Wolfgang Jannesen wrote: I actually get great use out of the Rokh with a MJD and rails. I'm not a fan of the Apocalypse, or maybe any T1 amarr battleship. Armour tanks are always very slow active tanks and it feels like trying to juggle enough capacitor, two reps, and still finding Scorch isn't as effective as I'd hoped it would be compared to even Barrage in large AC's. Paladin is a beast but it was a breeze fitting a cap stable dual rep tank on that golden God Rokh + 500mn mwd goes 832m/s Apocalypse + 500mn mwd goes 1077m/s Please elaborate what your perception of "slow armor battleship" means and someone please explain why someone would put 3x 1600mm armor plates on a kiting ship? You've got me confused, I meant Large Armor Reps vs Large or X-Large shield boosters have a much longer activation time. I like dual armor repair tanks I just have a tough time fitting the Apocalypse for fights below 100km the same way I would other armor tanked ships.
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 5263	Posted - 2017.02.03 12:16:39 - [14] - Quote elitatwo wrote: Please elaborate what your perception of "slow armor battleship" means and someone please explain why someone would put 3x 1600mm armor plates on a kiting ship? I think he meant the armor repair cycle time vs. shield booster recharge time. You totally lost me with the three 1600mm armor plates, though... I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Gregorius Goldstein Ze One Man Show 1893	Posted - 2017.02.03 12:17:27 - [15] - Quote Valkin Mordirc wrote: Not to mention that the Naga completely over takes the Rohk as a rail sniper. Faster, better sensor strength, and better damage I guess THAT is the biggest problem that the Rokh has. The resistance bonus is great for tanking stuff and the range bonus is great for kiting stuff. Two OK bonuses but for two different tactics. And if you go for blasters there are better battleships in the Galente line. Now if the Rokh had a range and a tracking bonus, that would be a nice combo. (But in that case range + tracking on the Naga and range + damage on the Rokh would be even better?)
Mina Sebiestar Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate 1109	Posted - 2017.02.03 14:56:52 - [16] - Quote Caldari rokh Amarr abbadon Gallete hyperion Minmatar tempest fleet Just my view of current worst Give rokh more bandwith and drone bay so it is more of a battleship and sniper second. Tanky ships don't hold high value in my books Fleet tempest is left in the dust when t1 tempest got dmg buff it's less than mediocre. You want dmg go tempest,you want better all go machariel you want none of that go fleet tempest. "You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear"n++
Alaric Faelen Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes 441	Posted - 2017.02.03 15:12:55 - [17] - Quote A better question is just- what battleships see the least use at any given type of content? Considering the number of threads here asking what is best, you can probably deduce the least popular ones from their absence on that list.
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 5264	Posted - 2017.02.03 19:34:07 - [18] - Quote Alaric Faelen wrote: A better question is just- what battleships see the least use at any given type of content? Raven State Issue. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Kiddoomer The Red Sequence 146	Posted - 2017.02.03 21:23:39 - [19] - Quote Mikkir wrote: Just curious, what are the worst battleships in the game right now? I get some ships are niche ships, like the rokh being a fleet ship, but which ones are just terrible? The Rokh is DANK as a mining ship, I have one just for that, it's beautiful to see her doing that, plus the skins for the Rokh are cheap. Apart from that, yeah no FC I know want it in any situation except smartbombing gates. In the name of Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen : GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
Valkin Mordirc 2688	Posted - 2017.02.03 22:35:46 - [20] - Quote Mina Sebiestar wrote: Caldari rokh Amarr abbadon Gallete hyperion Minmatar tempest fleet Just my view of current worst Give rokh more bandwith and drone bay so it is more of a battleship and sniper second. Tanky ships don't hold high value in my books Fleet tempest is left in the dust when t1 tempest got dmg buff it's less than mediocre. You want dmg go tempest,you want better all go machariel you want none of that(but pay as much) go fleet tempest. I would disagree with the Hype being a bad ship. Dual repped, and triple repped hypes are extremely powerful. With a 3% PwG implant, you can run Ion's, heavy neut, Gecko's, and all the other furnishing of a standard triple repped hype but with 1000DPS. On a fair 1v1 encounter with any of the other T1 battleships, the only real problem a hype would have troubles deal with would be a Geddon or a typhoon. `#DeleteTheWeak`
Mina Sebiestar Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate 1109	Posted - 2017.02.04 02:41:32 - [21] - Quote Valkin Mordirc wrote: [Mina Sebiestar] Oh its not a bad ship at all i don't think Gallente battleship lineup have bad ships it was just a toss up for me in between t1 mega or hype whose last on the list hype ended there. "You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear"n++
RavenPaine RaVeN Alliance 1312	Posted - 2017.02.04 18:10:35 - [22] - Quote Generally speaking, I always felt that the Caldari line up of BS was week for PvP. I have flown them all, and I think they have the highest probability to lose a fight. The Scorpion: A BS sized ECM ship. It does have the ability to spam in Cruise missiles, but being out of point range, it can't actually get many kills. More of a helper in that respect. As for the ECM part, it can't cloak, and it moves slow. I never lost a Falcon, but I did lose every Scorp I ever owned. I will add, Scorps are cheaper to lose. Disposable in a sense. The Raven: Typically is a first BS that new combat pilots will fly. They can do ok but this reputation alone will get the Raven primaried a lot. If you want to be the last ship on the field after a big fight, you probably will NOT be flying a Raven. Great DPS though and a decent drone bay. Not terrible tank, but def not the best. The Rokh: A great doctrine ship with the snipeing ability. Up close, as a blaster boat, Mega is faster, has more DPS, and can tank as good or better. Mega and other ships, will have a better drone bay and more possible utility options. Price makes the Mega a far better choice for the same fight. Again, I've flown them all, and I'd do it again, but a well thought out fleet/plan would leave these ships in the hanger. I will admit, most of my fleet/plans aren't well thought out. Many times it's just "grab something and let's go"
Mikkir Freelance Mining Company 17	Posted - 2017.02.05 05:00:09 - [23] - Quote Thanks for all the replies. I was thinking some of the battleships were meh, but wanted to see what you all thought. I was thinking that the fleet tempest was meh, simply because it used the old tempest formula. I'm surprised that the fleet phoon didn't make the list, because it seems expensive for average, but apparently people like it. Other things that caught my eye were the navy domi, it has good DPS on paper but I thought it was a bit odd with bonuses. Suprised to see the rokh, it use to be a reasonable fleet ship just because of extra range and tank bonus, but I guess it has fallen off. Also suprised that the abaddon wasn't listed more, I haven't found what I think is a great fit on it, but I guess someone likes it. Apparently the nester has found a niche, which is nice to see, but I also have no idea what that niche is.
Lugh Crow-Slave 3721	Posted - 2017.02.05 07:41:26 - [24] - Quote Scorpion not all that much it can do that another ecm boat can't do better or cheaper. If ccp ever lifts the hard 250km lock on the rest of the ships like they did cariers I could maybe see it. As it stands it's only really useful for suicide ecm bursts BLOPS Hauler
Nikea Tiber Backwater Enterprises RD 52	Posted - 2017.02.05 19:42:20 - [25] - Quote Andrew Indy wrote: YeuxVerts Belle wrote: Boozbaz wrote: Tempest Fleet issue is bad value. The vanilla tempest has better bonuses than the fleet issue. Does that make it a bad ship? For a few extra isk (tens of mil) you can get a Mach, Pretty much a Fleet tempest that swaps a free high for an extra gun (more DPS), gets even more drones, more speed, faster warp, faster align and better range. The mach is not a fleet tempest with an extra turret slot. It is typhoon that doesn't use missiles. my other nano is a polycarb
Valkin Mordirc 2689	Posted - 2017.02.06 04:40:27 - [26] - Quote RavenPaine wrote: The Rokh: A great doctrine ship with the snipeing ability. Up close, as a blaster boat, Mega is faster, has more DPS, and can tank as good or better. Mega and other ships, will have a better drone bay and more possible utility options. Price makes the Mega a far better choice for the same fight. Again, I've flown them all, and I'd do it again, but a well thought out fleet/plan would leave these ships in the hanger. I will admit, most of my fleet/plans aren't well thought out. Many times it's just "grab something and let's go" I wouldn't say it the best doctrine sniper. Again the Naga will have better DPS and the same range. It's faster to, so if you it as it's intended role. Being outside of the range of the enemy, tank doesn't really matter. Also the Naga gets overshadowed by the Tornado. Also Medium rails in general on cruiser hull seem to be more ideal with the meta as is. Mega gets a better Passive tank, The Rohk could technically get a better active tank, but the Rokh only has six mids, so getting a good a active tank, or even passive tank will limit it in utility. It's really hard to fit a Rokh to have a strong active tank, even with bling, and still have a web. As for blaster fits, the Rokh doesn't get the tracking bonus, so not only does the Mega out damage the Rokh, it tracks better and can fit a web. Better drone bay to, it can fit a set of mediums and a set of lights. where the rokh can only fit a set of mediums or two sets of lights. As its intended role, The Rokh has been left behind by the ABC's. The only thing people really use them for now is smart bombing, either has dedicated firewallers, or just popping the random ceptor/pod. I know I've been bashing it a lot, I love the way the Rokh looks. It was actually the first battleship I bought and I still have that rohk docked up in Amarr. I just wish it was a better ship. `#DeleteTheWeak`
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 5307	Posted - 2017.02.06 05:01:21 - [27] - Quote Everyone wishes the Rokh was a better ship. If they removed the shield bonus and replaced it with a +25% bonus to falloff range it would make the Rokh a lot more interesting. Then change the optimal range bonus on the Naga to +25%. The Naga will still be able to snipe and perform - it just wouldn't surpass the Rokh at extreme ranges. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Mikkir Freelance Mining Company 17	Posted - 2017.02.07 06:33:43 - [28] - Quote So after some fitting I'm going to declare that the abaddon is the worst battleship. The bonuses make it interesting, but the cap is so weak you have to fit cap boosters just to keep the lasers firing in a buffer fit. I really don't see how to fit this ship and not consider it garbage.
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 5327	Posted - 2017.02.07 07:38:57 - [29] - Quote Mikkir wrote: So after some fitting I'm going to declare that the abaddon is the worst battleship. The bonuses make it interesting, but the cap is so weak you have to fit cap boosters just to keep the lasers firing in a buffer fit. I really don't see how to fit this ship and not consider it garbage. You may want to look into a Nightmare. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Mikkir Freelance Mining Company 17	Posted - 2017.02.07 07:53:59 - [30] - Quote Arthur Aihaken wrote: Mikkir wrote: So after some fitting I'm going to declare that the abaddon is the worst battleship. The bonuses make it interesting, but the cap is so weak you have to fit cap boosters just to keep the lasers firing in a buffer fit. I really don't see how to fit this ship and not consider it garbage. You may want to look into a Nightmare. Yeah, the nightmare seems a lot better for the same-ish kind of ship.
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18572	Posted - 2017.02.07 11:43:15 - [31] - Quote Mina Sebiestar wrote: Valkin Mordirc wrote: [Mina Sebiestar] Oh its not a bad ship at all i don't think Gallente battleship lineup have bad ships it was just a toss up for me in between t1 mega or hype whose last on the list hype ended there. Navy Mega gets worst but only because of the cost vs the better vindicator.
Gregorius Goldstein Ze One Man Show 1895	Posted - 2017.02.07 13:13:36 - [32] - Quote Kiddoomer wrote: Mikkir wrote: Just curious, what are the worst battleships in the game right now? I get some ships are niche ships, like the rokh being a fleet ship, but which ones are just terrible? The Rokh is DANK as a mining ship, I have one just for that, it's beautiful to see her doing that, plus the skins for the Rokh are cheap. Apart from that, yeah no FC I know want it in any situation except smartbombing gates. The Venture is the only mining ship I can fly. I kind of like the idea of getting the omber I need for storyline missions in a Rokh. Just for awsomesauce and giggles. Can't stop the Rokh, it does 250 sanics...
Takh Meir'noen 24th Imperial Recon 9	Posted - 2017.02.08 16:00:57 - [33] - Quote Wolfgang Jannesen wrote: I actually get great use out of the Rokh with a MJD and rails. I'm not a fan of the Apocalypse, or maybe any T1 amarr battleship. Armour tanks are always very slow active tanks and it feels like trying to juggle enough capacitor, two reps, and still finding Scorch isn't as effective as I'd hoped it would be compared to even Barrage in large AC's. Paladin is a beast but it was a breeze fitting a cap stable dual rep tank on that golden God Dual rep!? Why are you dual repping? An Armageddon with 1 rep + 3 hardeners can tank in L4s just fine assuming you aren't going for pocket aggro every time. A PALADIN with a dual rep!? WHY? HI: 4 Tachs + Bastion + 3 whatever (1 drone link, 2 tractor) MID: MWD + MJD + 2 Cap Rech LO: LAR + 2 EANM + 4 Heat Sink RIG: 2x Cap Rigs DRONE: 5 hobgoblin, 1 warden, 5 salvager CARGO: MTU, 4xMulti thru Standard + 4x navy multi With Bastion up you can tank 1500 dps. If 1500 dps tank isn't keeping you alive in a L4, you are doing it wrong. On the original topic, as much love as I have for the Abaddon, it doesn't really stand out from the Apocalypse enough, especially for L4 missions.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 18346	Posted - 2017.02.08 20:03:09 - [34] - Quote Gregorius Goldstein wrote: Valkin Mordirc wrote: Not to mention that the Naga completely over takes the Rohk as a rail sniper. Faster, better sensor strength, and better damage I guess THAT is the biggest problem that the Rokh has. The resistance bonus is great for tanking stuff and the range bonus is great for kiting stuff. Two OK bonuses but for two different tactics. And if you go for blasters there are better battleships in the Galente line. Now if the Rokh had a range and a tracking bonus, that would be a nice combo. (But in that case range + tracking on the Naga and range + damage on the Rokh would be even better?) Yeah well the thing is, people don't exactly use Naga doctrines a whole lot either. "Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming." Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Mikkir Freelance Mining Company 17	Posted - 2017.02.09 04:06:02 - [35] - Quote Takh Meir'noen wrote: On the original topic, as much love as I have for the Abaddon, it doesn't really stand out from the Apocalypse enough, especially for L4 missions. Can you share you abaddon fit for PvE? Everytime I try to fit it I end up doing my impression of the Jackie Chan meme picture. I'd like to see a not terrible fit for it.
Andrew Indy Jedran Space Services 213	Posted - 2017.02.09 07:23:21 - [36] - Quote Takh Meir'noen wrote: A PALADIN with a dual rep!? WHY? C4 and 5 WHs.
Mina Sebiestar Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate 1112	Posted - 2017.02.09 08:07:33 - [37] - Quote Andrew Indy wrote: Takh Meir'noen wrote: A PALADIN with a dual rep!? WHY? C4 and 5 WHs. Polarized l4 fits come with dual reps as well "You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear"n++
Tomoko Sunji Drama Sutra Incorporated. 0	Posted - 2017.02.09 17:51:34 - [38] - Quote Andrew Indy wrote: YeuxVerts Belle wrote: Boozbaz wrote: Tempest Fleet issue is bad value. The vanilla tempest has better bonuses than the fleet issue. Does that make it a bad ship? Well it has more Tank, an extra low slot and an extra flight of lights , but has less DPS (2.5% per level). So its better in several ways but also twice the price. For a few extra isk (tens of mil) you can get a Mach, Pretty much a Fleet tempest that swaps a free high for an extra gun (more DPS), gets even more drones, more speed, faster warp, faster align and better range. The main issue is that Pirate BPCs have come down in price too much due to farming. Not that long ago a Pirate BS was 1Bil which made the progression fine. TFI has extra PG too which is great when it comes to fitting arty as you don't have to sacrifice one of your rigs like a machariel should. A TFI would probably be one of the most suited battleship to hold a grid.
Mikkir Freelance Mining Company 17	Posted - 2017.02.10 05:14:50 - [39] - Quote Tomoko Sunji wrote: TFI has extra PG too which is great when it comes to fitting arty as you don't have to sacrifice one of your rigs like a machariel should. A TFI would probably be one of the most suited battleship to hold a grid. Can you explain what you mean by hold a grid? So after more research on the market, it looks like Galente and Minmatar navy ships are also poorly represented. Navy mega are barely better than regular megas, and horribly outclased by vindicators. Navy domis lack the drone focus the regular domi has, even with higher paper dps. Fleet phoons are poorly situated between barghest and other missile ships, unless you go autocannons which makes it a weaker... any other autocannon boat? And I think we largely covered the TFI, which also struggles to find a niche the mach doesn't dominate. But again, these are observations from an old noob who's still getting used to the game again.
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 5433	Posted - 2017.02.10 06:09:11 - [40] - Quote All Navy battleship hulls are horrendously overpriced now that Pirate Faction hulls have dropped so much in cost. They should really be priced in the 250-350m ISK range. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Takh Meir'noen 24th Imperial Recon 9	Posted - 2017.02.10 16:49:48 - [41] - Quote Mikkir wrote: Takh Meir'noen wrote: On the original topic, as much love as I have for the Abaddon, it doesn't really stand out from the Apocalypse enough, especially for L4 missions. Can you share you abaddon fit for PvE? Everytime I try to fit it I end up doing my impression of the Jackie Chan meme picture. I'd like to see a not terrible fit for it. HI: 8 Mega Beam (my preference) or 8 MegaPulse MID: MWD + 2 Cap Battery + MJD (beam) or Web (pulse) LO: LAR + 2 Hardener + 2 CPR + 2 HS RIG: 2 CCC (t2), ANC (beam) or ANP (pulse) It's not a bad ship, really. The beam fit has about 440 omni tank (626 vs blood with specific). The MWD and MJD allow you to position yourself quickly to prime killing distance. If you prefer pulse (I don't enjoy MWDing around between scattered BS's all trying to orbit @ 49k) then the tank is 505 omni (720 specific). It shells out a lot of damage. However, an Apoc will track better, have better optimal, and need one less cap mod for the same stability, which can be put towards tank (making it tank as well as teh abaddon) or DPS (making it do about the same DPS as the abaddon). I would hands down rather use an Apoc for a beam fit for the optimal increase. I don't think the Abaddon is the worst BS--I just don't think it stands out enough from the Apoc. Since it needs an extra cap mod to get the same stability, I think it dimishes the ship bonuses it has. I think if the Abaddon had the same base capacitor & recharge as the Apocalypse it would be a better ship. Apoc would then be the optimal + tracking boat, and the Abaddon would be the better tanky/brawler option. I've flown a Paladin since they added marauders though, so now it's all about the Tachyons for me.
Mikkir Freelance Mining Company 17	Posted - 2017.02.11 06:21:44 - [42] - Quote Takh Meir'noen wrote: HI: 8 Mega Beam (my preference) or 8 MegaPulse MID: MWD + 2 Cap Battery + MJD (beam) or Web (pulse) LO: LAR + 2 Hardener + 2 CPR + 2 HS RIG: 2 CCC (t2), ANC (beam) or ANP (pulse) It's not a bad ship, really. The beam fit has about 440 omni tank (626 vs blood with specific). The MWD and MJD allow you to position yourself quickly to prime killing distance. If you prefer pulse (I don't enjoy MWDing around between scattered BS's all trying to orbit @ 49k) then the tank is 505 omni (720 specific). It shells out a lot of damage. However, an Apoc will track better, have better optimal, and need one less cap mod for the same stability, which can be put towards tank (making it tank as well as teh abaddon) or DPS (making it do about the same DPS as the abaddon). I would hands down rather use an Apoc for a beam fit for the optimal increase. I don't think the Abaddon is the worst BS--I just don't think it stands out enough from the Apoc. Since it needs an extra cap mod to get the same stability, I think it dimishes the ship bonuses it has. I think if the Abaddon had the same base capacitor & recharge as the Apocalypse it would be a better ship. Apoc would then be the optimal + tracking boat, and the Abaddon would be the better tanky/brawler option. I've flown a Paladin since they added marauders though, so now it's all about the Tachyons for me. Thanks for the fit. I just struggle to fly a ship where I have to fit 6 cap mods, it really makes me doubt a ship when I have to dedicate that many mods to it. Maybe it's better than I gave it credit for, but I just struggle to justify it when I do something like that while fitting.
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18579	Posted - 2017.02.11 06:59:47 - [43] - Quote Mikkir wrote: Thanks for the fit. I just struggle to fly a ship where I have to fit 6 cap mods, it really makes me doubt a ship when I have to dedicate that many mods to it. Maybe it's better than I gave it credit for, but I just struggle to justify it when I do something like that while fitting. Thats only to get the thing cap stable, generally you fit a heavy cap booster and simply manage your cap.
Mikkir Freelance Mining Company 17	Posted - 2017.02.11 10:09:57 - [44] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Mikkir wrote: Thanks for the fit. I just struggle to fly a ship where I have to fit 6 cap mods, it really makes me doubt a ship when I have to dedicate that many mods to it. Maybe it's better than I gave it credit for, but I just struggle to justify it when I do something like that while fitting. Thats only to get the thing cap stable, generally you fit a heavy cap booster and simply manage your cap. Do you have a fit I could play with? I understand what you're saying, and there's a lot of ships that don't really need to be cap stable to be effective, but it seems like the abaddon takes it to an extreme.
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18589	Posted - 2017.02.13 22:16:23 - [45] - Quote Mikkir wrote: baltec1 wrote: Mikkir wrote: Thanks for the fit. I just struggle to fly a ship where I have to fit 6 cap mods, it really makes me doubt a ship when I have to dedicate that many mods to it. Maybe it's better than I gave it credit for, but I just struggle to justify it when I do something like that while fitting. Thats only to get the thing cap stable, generally you fit a heavy cap booster and simply manage your cap. Do you have a fit I could play with? I understand what you're saying, and there's a lot of ships that don't really need to be cap stable to be effective, but it seems like the abaddon takes it to an extreme. Off the top of my head you go pulse and HUEG tank for pve. One electrochem heavy booster with cap charge 3200. Prop mod (generally a MWD) If you have cap for 4 min you tend to be ok cap wise in pve.
Brok Haslack Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2017.03.02 22:11:17 - [46] - Quote Generally speaking the T2 ships have issues for those of us who cannot urinate PLEX. A lot of cost, & weak insurance with it. The space-happy rich won't get this, but it's partly why the Incursion Community is being crushed into turgid monotony. DPS flies around as you move to challenge the Sansha invaders (oh noes!), a damage spike or human error happens (oh biuggery!), and if you have the slightest difference in rigs (for example) from holy doctrine you end up majorly out of pocket. If you want PvE to be exciting you want 2 things: - Those damage spikes. Obviously. A heavy spawn, some unlucky 'dice rolls', and some action. Gaming is gaming. - Being able to try new strategies. Which is currently verboten in so many fleets, because of holy doctrine. Stagnation helps no-one. So these T2 Battleships are a bit of a weak link here. I don't see the problem with a full hull payout (like with T1 platignum) for a higher price here, but until that happens holy doctrine will continue to reduce Incursions to mind-numbing drudgery. T1 incursions can't win challenges against T2 fleets. So there is no real player choice. Drudgery or drudgery. Improve the Insurance for T2's and new fleets can grow, which would clearly improve game-play. 2p deposited, & I shalll now go hide in my bunker as the flames start to fly ;)
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 5899	Posted - 2017.03.06 14:35:22 - [47] - Quote Marauders aren't the worst battleships (regardless of insurance). I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Mikkir Freelance Mining Company 20	Posted - 2017.03.06 14:45:17 - [48] - Quote Arthur Aihaken wrote: Marauders aren't the worst battleships (regardless of insurance). I wasn't sure if that was posted in the wrong thread or not. All marauders are playable as hell.
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore 15273	Posted - 2017.03.06 16:54:20 - [49] - Quote Brok Haslack wrote: Generally speaking the T2 ships have issues for those of us who cannot urinate PLEX. A lot of cost, & weak insurance with it. The space-happy rich won't get this, but it's partly why the Incursion Community is being crushed into turgid monotony. DPS flies around as you move to challenge the Sansha invaders (oh noes!), a damage spike or human error happens (oh biuggery!), and if you have the slightest difference in rigs (for example) from holy doctrine you end up majorly out of pocket. If you want PvE to be exciting you want 2 things: - Those damage spikes. Obviously. A heavy spawn, some unlucky 'dice rolls', and some action. Gaming is gaming. - Being able to try new strategies. Which is currently verboten in so many fleets, because of holy doctrine. Stagnation helps no-one. So these T2 Battleships are a bit of a weak link here. I don't see the problem with a full hull payout (like with T1 platignum) for a higher price here, but until that happens holy doctrine will continue to reduce Incursions to mind-numbing drudgery. T1 incursions can't win challenges against T2 fleets. So there is no real player choice. Drudgery or drudgery. Improve the Insurance for T2's and new fleets can grow, which would clearly improve game-play. 2p deposited, & I shalll now go hide in my bunker as the flames start to fly ;) Begin mad about "holy doctrine" is kind of dumb. In solo PVE you can experiment all you like, it's only you who lose if something goes wrong. But in cooperative gameplay, EVERYONE loses if you experiment. You decide to try a Rapid missile ship, everyone gets less pay out. Decide to try a different tank set up, you die, one less dps ship means everyone else gets longer site times (ie less pay out) etc etc. I stopped doing incursions because I do like to tinker and experiment, so i stick to missions and anomalies rather than get mad at others for not want to suffer at my expense.
elitatwo Dicker Quick and Hyde Defense Attorneys O.U.Z.O. Alliance 1608	Posted - 2017.03.07 09:24:09 - [50] - Quote Arthur Aihaken wrote: All Navy battleship hulls are horrendously overpriced now that Pirate Faction hulls have dropped so much in cost. They should really be priced in the 250-350m ISK range. That about sums up what I had in mind which was lowering the LP cost of the navy battleships down to 250-300k LP. Eve Minions is recruiting. This is the law of ship progression! Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 5906	Posted - 2017.03.07 13:56:48 - [51] - Quote elitatwo wrote: That about sums up what I had in mind which was lowering the LP cost of the navy battleships down to 250-300k LP. And while we're at it all the Navy Faction items should be cut in half. 100m ISK for a Faction BCS is stupid when they should really be going for 25-40m ISK tops. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Brok Haslack Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2017.03.08 05:26:00 - [52] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Begin mad about "holy doctrine" is kind of dumb. In solo PVE you can experiment all you like, it's only you who lose if something goes wrong. But in cooperative gameplay, EVERYONE loses if you experiment. You decide to try a Rapid missile ship, everyone gets less pay out. Decide to try a different tank set up, you die, one less dps ship means everyone else gets longer site times (ie less pay out) etc etc. I stopped doing incursions because I do like to tinker and experiment, so i stick to missions and anomalies rather than get mad at others for not want to suffer at my expense. If it was just me I'd agree, but there are more and more people walking away because of how Incursions have been reduced to pure stagnation by the dominant pack of players ( those that control the SRF's ). Some of us just aren't that obsessed with ISK, and instead want a general barney with the Sanshas. There is no room at the inn for us at present. Admittedly I am about to check FW out, but it does sadden me that such a large chunk of PvE ( Incursions ) has been crushed by a group of Rich Kids.
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore 15292	Posted - 2017.03.08 13:20:06 - [53] - Quote Brok Haslack wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: Begin mad about "holy doctrine" is kind of dumb. In solo PVE you can experiment all you like, it's only you who lose if something goes wrong. But in cooperative gameplay, EVERYONE loses if you experiment. You decide to try a Rapid missile ship, everyone gets less pay out. Decide to try a different tank set up, you die, one less dps ship means everyone else gets longer site times (ie less pay out) etc etc. I stopped doing incursions because I do like to tinker and experiment, so i stick to missions and anomalies rather than get mad at others for not want to suffer at my expense. If it was just me I'd agree, but there are more and more people walking away because of how Incursions have been reduced to pure stagnation by the dominant pack of players ( those that control the SRF's ). Some of us just aren't that obsessed with ISK, and instead want a general barney with the Sanshas. There is no room at the inn for us at present. Admittedly I am about to check FW out, but it does sadden me that such a large chunk of PvE ( Incursions ) has been crushed by a group of Rich Kids. If it's not just you, what, exactly is stopping you from forming your own Incursion group? All you need is a few people to start up one and run VGs in less expensive ships/fits till you build up. Most times the VGs are completely open. If it's as you say and lots of people are unhappy, this should be easy right? If on the other hand it's just you being angry about PVE players who are trying to make enough isk for their next plex not wanting to suffer because you want to 'experiment', then you don't have a legitimate complaint at all.
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 5944	Posted - 2017.03.08 13:36:17 - [54] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: If it's as you say and lots of people are unhappy, this should be easy right? If on the other hand it's just you being angry about PVE players who are trying to make enough isk for their next plex not wanting to suffer because you want to 'experiment', then you don't have a legitimate complaint at all. I think the reality is that a lot of players are complacent and would rather have the ISK from Incursions than not. Why rock the boat? I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

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