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The three most overpowered ships in Eve

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TheEndofTheWorld	Posted - 2007.04.25 17:24:00 - [121] Originally by: Ryysa Too much dps, huh. Without snakes with t2 mwd vaga will go maybe 3.5-4km/s, and even with ganky setup it does about 250-300 dps at 15km. How is that too much dps? Compare it to a deimos, ishtar... Hell, many t1 cruisers do more dps than the vagabond. Seriously makes me wonder if you've ever flown one. Are you actually trying to argue that Vagabond >>> all other hacs isn't true?
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated Free Trade Coalition	Posted - 2007.04.25 17:24:00 - [122] Avatar leviathan and erabus.... __________________________________________ Yes it is great being amarr. I am minmatar,fly amarr,use gellente drones and am in caldari space.
Ryysa North Face Force Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.04.25 18:41:00 - [123] Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld Originally by: Ryysa Too much dps, huh. Without snakes with t2 mwd vaga will go maybe 3.5-4km/s, and even with ganky setup it does about 250-300 dps at 15km. How is that too much dps? Compare it to a deimos, ishtar... Hell, many t1 cruisers do more dps than the vagabond. Seriously makes me wonder if you've ever flown one. Are you actually trying to argue that Vagabond >>> all other hacs isn't true? heh, the only reason this is the case, is because Vagabond is almost the only HAC which does something better than a tier2 BC. before Tier2 BC's were ingame, vagabond was not >>>> all other hacs, not by a longshot, but that's a completely different problem. N.F.F. Recruitment - Killboard Mirroring tool
ForeverKnight Caldari Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.25 19:22:00 - [124] 1. Polaris Frigate 2. Jovian Battleship 3. CONCORD Battleship
Riley Craven Caldari Copacetic Corporation	Posted - 2007.04.25 20:03:00 - [125] Edited by: Riley Craven on 25/04/2007 20:00:29 Originally by: Azuse The drakes tank is not the problem the fact that the drakes tank is infinite is the problem, its the equivelant of running two tii large boosters, infinatly. Actually, thats not a really a problem. You can do that on almost any ship. I set up my raven in delve to have a perma armor tank against BR rats. I set up my chimera to have a perma cap shield boost+faction amp tank. Infinite tanks are great for one thing. and one thing only PVE, then the only reason is because you dont have to babysit your tank and takes some of the pressure off the player to micomanage. Well maybe two. If you talk about passive tanks they are great counters to nos. Remember, saying something in bad in general makes no sense in this game. Everything has a purpose and a role. everything must be quantified.
Hannobaal Gallente Utopian Frontier	Posted - 2007.04.25 20:04:00 - [126] Originally by: Tobias Sjodin JUST LEARN TO COUNTER THE DAMN SHIPS INSTEAD OF NERFWHINING KTHXBYE! QFT QFT QFT QFT QFT!!!!!! ------------------ "If you ever need anything, please don't Hesitate to ask someone else first."
MrDisposable Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2007.04.25 20:09:00 - [127] Originally by: Hannobaal Originally by: Tobias Sjodin JUST LEARN TO COUNTER THE DAMN SHIPS INSTEAD OF NERFWHINING KTHXBYE! QFT QFT QFT QFT QFT!!!!!! Learn to admit when your playstyle limits all others through overwhelming power and lack of counters. ______________ BoB Alts "This isn't about Dev misconduct.... ban the Ctrl+q'rs! They are the real problem behind it ALL!!!!!" "Devs stole BPOs for the good of eve."
General Apocalypse Amarr Dark-Rising Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.04.25 20:21:00 - [128] Edited by: General Apocalypse on 25/04/2007 20:18:28 Ok i think we have a realy silly topic here . Pilot 1 <pimped vaga> goes in the system . Kill some barges the a BS comes and puts 2 heavy nos/neuts on him and whit a faction web pwns the Vaga . Vaga pilot whines in corp chat and screams his litle lungs out NOS IS OVERPOWERD on the EVE-O . Pilot 2 <pimped BS> jumps to a BS and goes to help someone under fire from a Vaga . Arives to late and his pounded by the vaga in to submision. Pilot 2 whines about the ship and screams and sobs " Vagas are so overpowerd man i hope they get nerfed , bla bla bla. " And on a more serious side atm thanks to the nanonerf there are no OOOOOOOOOOOOOVERPOWERD ships in the game. There are ships that excel in certain sides of combat , for example a Rokh whit 4 NOS that fires fury tops at you and fits only tank will win over most BS in SOLO. But put the same ship in a rating belt / fleet op and see how it will be just and embarasment for the pilot. Supercapitals are indeed very powerfull , the Nyx was king but it was now nerfed. Nobody asked for the Nyx to be nerfed but it was. To be hones when you spend 30 B on a motherships and another 30 B or more (yes a good motherships setup can go to 60 B) on fittings , you have the right to be able to wipe the flor whit a 200M BS and even kill a 2 B capital . And just to let you know a supercapital tanks crumbles at about 9000 DPS no matter the resist on it . Bumping it whit dreads and nossing it whit carries will make the pilot cream his pants. But if you're gona kill someting that takes 1 moths to cook and many more to plan you need to invest at least a good chunk of that time to plan kill it. Originally by: Verone The day I go Anti-Pirate is the day satan shall be ice skating to work.
Hannobaal Gallente Utopian Frontier	Posted - 2007.04.25 20:30:00 - [129] Originally by: MrDisposable Originally by: Hannobaal Originally by: Tobias Sjodin JUST LEARN TO COUNTER THE DAMN SHIPS INSTEAD OF NERFWHINING KTHXBYE! QFT QFT QFT QFT QFT!!!!!! Learn to admit when your playstyle limits all others through overwhelming power and lack of counters. not having figured out a counter =/= no counter exists ------------------ "If you ever need anything, please don't Hesitate to ask someone else first."
MrDisposable Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2007.04.25 20:45:00 - [130] Originally by: Hannobaal Originally by: MrDisposable Originally by: Hannobaal Originally by: Tobias Sjodin JUST LEARN TO COUNTER THE DAMN SHIPS INSTEAD OF NERFWHINING KTHXBYE! QFT QFT QFT QFT QFT!!!!!! Learn to admit when your playstyle limits all others through overwhelming power and lack of counters. not having figured out a counter =/= no counter exists no counter exists =/= not having figured out a counter ______________ BoB Alts "This isn't about Dev misconduct.... ban the Ctrl+q'rs! They are the real problem behind it ALL!!!!!" "Devs stole BPOs for the good of eve."

Hannobaal Gallente Utopian Frontier	Posted - 2007.04.25 20:48:00 - [131] Originally by: MrDisposable Originally by: Hannobaal Originally by: MrDisposable Originally by: Hannobaal Originally by: Tobias Sjodin JUST LEARN TO COUNTER THE DAMN SHIPS INSTEAD OF NERFWHINING KTHXBYE! QFT QFT QFT QFT QFT!!!!!! Learn to admit when your playstyle limits all others through overwhelming power and lack of counters. not having figured out a counter =/= no counter exists no counter exists =/= not having figured out a counter having no imagination or tactical sense =/= having a valid point ------------------ "If you ever need anything, please don't Hesitate to ask someone else first."
MrDisposable Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2007.04.25 20:53:00 - [132] Originally by: Hannobaal Originally by: MrDisposable Originally by: Hannobaal Originally by: MrDisposable Originally by: Hannobaal Originally by: Tobias Sjodin JUST LEARN TO COUNTER THE DAMN SHIPS INSTEAD OF NERFWHINING KTHXBYE! QFT QFT QFT QFT QFT!!!!!! Learn to admit when your playstyle limits all others through overwhelming power and lack of counters. not having figured out a counter =/= no counter exists no counter exists =/= not having figured out a counter having no imagination or tactical sense =/= having a valid point Wow, thats just so profound. Good thing you have totally exhuasted the topic eh? Lets give this another try. Permanent counter to NOS? NOS or capless tank/weapons. Seeing as how NOS is available to all and capless weapon systems aren't... Drones, they are supposed to be vulnerable. The scoop release method is counterable how? OR since your relying on retarded logic.... lets just roll back all balancing to just post beta. How about bringing back dual MWD ravens and 8 HS II geddons. I mean there is a counter for everything right? Well it was nice having you in the thread... ______________ BoB Alts "This isn't about Dev misconduct.... ban the Ctrl+q'rs! They are the real problem behind it ALL!!!!!" "Devs stole BPOs for the good of eve."
Hannobaal Gallente Utopian Frontier	Posted - 2007.04.25 21:04:00 - [133] There are many counters to nossing. Passive tank and no-cap weapons, staying out of range, nossing back... If my Ares gets nossed or webbed it dies very quickly thereafter. Do I come on the forums and whine about how nos and web are overpowered and impossible to counter? No, I don't. I find ways to avoid getting nossed or webbed in combat. And the times that I fail despite that and do get webbed or nossed anyway... well, **** happens... ------------------ "If you ever need anything, please don't Hesitate to ask someone else first."
MrDisposable Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2007.04.25 21:12:00 - [134] Edited by: MrDisposable on 25/04/2007 21:10:17 Originally by: Hannobaal There are many counters to nossing. Passive tank and no-cap weapons, staying out of range, nossing back... If my Ares gets nossed or webbed it dies very quickly thereafter. Do I come on the forums and whine about how nos and web are overpowered and impossible to counter? No, I don't. I find ways to avoid getting nossed or webbed in combat. And the times that I fail despite that and do get webbed or nossed anyway... well, **** happens... So to the races who have no option for capless weapons... their combat tactic should involve staying out of range (a non-viable tactic for those ships btw) or suffer wtf pwnage? Beacon of balance you are. How can anything but a Drone boat hope to nos back and be even a bit effective? Oh right it can't, well at least not competitively. Hell even ships which have the effective DPS of 8-9 guns while having 2-3 utility turrets are non-counterable in that situation... once again due to the lack of range dictatorship. BAsically you should be in one of the NOS freindly or immune boats... or just go home eh? Why should a large NOS be the be all end all counter to smaller ships? Should cap ships get a X-lrg nos so that it can wtfpwn BSes then? I mean its the same thing isn't it? Your logic fails and you should have quit while you were ahead. ______________ BoB Alts "This isn't about Dev misconduct.... ban the Ctrl+q'rs! They are the real problem behind it ALL!!!!!" "Devs stole BPOs for the good of eve."
Hannobaal Gallente Utopian Frontier	Posted - 2007.04.25 21:33:00 - [135] Originally by: MrDisposable So to the races who have no option for capless weapons... All ships can use capless weapons. They may not have specific bonuses for them, but they can all use them. And three of four races in Eve are highly specialized in one each of the three capless weapons that exist in Eve (Minmatar - Projectiles, Caldari - Missiles, Gallente - Drones). The fourth race (Amarr) has some ships that are specialized in missiles or in drones and the rest of their ships can use projectile turrets (although it would be without bonuses). Quote: their combat tactic should involve staying out of range (a non-viable tactic for those ships btw) or suffer wtf pwnage? What ships (aside from some tech 1 frigates) can't stay out of range of nosses and still fight effectively? Quote: Beacon of balance you are. How can anything but a Drone boat hope to nos back and be even a bit effective? Did I say that tactic would work with all ships in Eve? Quote: Oh right it can't, well at least not competitively. Hell even ships which have the effective DPS of 8-9 guns while having 2-3 utility turrets are non-counterable in that situation... once again due to the lack of range dictatorship. BAsically you should be in one of the NOS freindly or immune boats... or just go home eh? I don't know, I see a lot of people in Eve who are not in those ships and are not going home. Quote: Why should a large NOS be the be all end all counter to smaller ships? It isn't. Quote: Should cap ships get a X-lrg nos so that it can wtfpwn BSes then? I mean its the same thing isn't it? Your logic fails and you should have quit while you were ahead. At least I have something other than my lack of imagination and a 'everything should have a very clear and blatantly apparent counter tactic or be removed from the game' attitude for an argument. If CCP had that attitude there'd be no Eve because it would all be nerfed into extinction. ------------------ "If you ever need anything, please don't Hesitate to ask someone else first."
MrDisposable Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2007.04.25 21:44:00 - [136] Edited by: MrDisposable on 25/04/2007 21:43:37 double post ______________ BoB Alts "This isn't about Dev misconduct.... ban the Ctrl+q'rs! They are the real problem behind it ALL!!!!!" "Devs stole BPOs for the good of eve."
MrDisposable Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2007.04.25 21:45:00 - [137] Edited by: MrDisposable on 25/04/2007 21:41:53 Originally by: Hannobaal yada yada Ok so amarr just have to suck it up is what your saying? Same with Blaster boats and active shield tankers. Wow good job you just said three types of gameplay should be sacrificed for one module to stay in the game. Any ship that does not fit a faction scrambler (over 24km) has to either be able to hold upto huge amounts of NOS or loos the target. That would ecompass just about all ships in game, not just frigates. Hey so that kinda makes it like the offensive WCS doesn't it? Can't scramble me I'll just nos til I can run!!! Seeing alot of people fight much less effectively because they do not like the flavor of the month doesn't make it right. NOS is the be all end all defense against small ships. Name one other module (other than DDD) that completely disables smaller ships the way NOS does? Quote: At least I have something other than my lack of imagination and a 'everything should have a very clear and blatantly apparent counter tactic or be removed from the game' attitude for an argument. If CCP had that attitude there'd be no Eve because it would all be nerfed into extinction. No you don't and no they wouldn't. According to you lasers aren't a big loss, nor active tanking, nor frigates vs. bs all for the sake of one module. ONE MODULE! Gimme a freakin break man. ______________ BoB Alts "This isn't about Dev misconduct.... ban the Ctrl+q'rs! They are the real problem behind it ALL!!!!!" "Devs stole BPOs for the good of eve."
welsh wizard 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.04.25 21:52:00 - [138] Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld Originally by: Ryysa Too much dps, huh. Without snakes with t2 mwd vaga will go maybe 3.5-4km/s, and even with ganky setup it does about 250-300 dps at 15km. How is that too much dps? Compare it to a deimos, ishtar... Hell, many t1 cruisers do more dps than the vagabond. Seriously makes me wonder if you've ever flown one. Are you actually trying to argue that Vagabond >>> all other hacs isn't true? Try fighting a Cerberus in a Vagabond. :) Not saying the Cerberus is overpowered but it sure as hell aint going down to a vagabond if theres a competent pilot in it.
Gamesguy Amarr E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.04.25 21:55:00 - [139] Originally by: Ryysa Err... nope. Not where I am from, and most BS fit 1 heavy nos, after which vaga is screwed. Geddon passivetanked without nos is probably the only bs that a vaga can kill. (And the obvious sniping setups). The entire amarr line up of battleships simply cannot fit a heavy nos unless its some kind of bait setup. Dont generalize, not all of us have utility high slots and the grid/cpu to fit a heavy nos in it. Quote: Too much dps, huh. Without snakes with t2 mwd vaga will go maybe 3.5-4km/s, and even with ganky setup it does about 250-300 dps at 15km. How is that too much dps? Compare it to a deimos, ishtar... Hell, many t1 cruisers do more dps than the vagabond. Seriously makes me wonder if you've ever flown one. You fail reading. I said it does too much dps for a ship that moves at the speed it does. Deimos has to come within web/medium nos range to do the dps, ishtar, widely acknoledged as one of the best hacs in the game, doesnt move nearly as fast as the vaga and all a bs would have to do is kill the drones, the ishtar cannot use the retract/deploy trick unless it wants to come in web range and die. It would quickly run out of drones long before it will have broken a BS's tank.
Hannobaal Gallente Utopian Frontier	Posted - 2007.04.25 22:09:00 - [140] Originally by: MrDisposable Edited by: MrDisposable on 25/04/2007 21:41:53 Originally by: Hannobaal yada yada Ok so amarr just have to suck it up is what your saying? Same with Blaster boats and active shield tankers. Wow good job you just said three types of gameplay should be sacrificed for one module to stay in the game. Any ship that does not fit a faction scrambler (over 24km) has to either be able to hold upto huge amounts of NOS or loos the target. That would ecompass just about all ships in game, not just frigates. Hey so that kinda makes it like the offensive WCS doesn't it? Can't scramble me I'll just nos til I can run!!! Seeing alot of people fight much less effectively because they do not like the flavor of the month doesn't make it right. NOS is the be all end all defense against small ships. Name one other module (other than DDD) that completely disables smaller ships the way NOS does? Quote: At least I have something other than my lack of imagination and a 'everything should have a very clear and blatantly apparent counter tactic or be removed from the game' attitude for an argument. If CCP had that attitude there'd be no Eve because it would all be nerfed into extinction. No you don't and no they wouldn't. According to you lasers aren't a big loss, nor active tanking, nor frigates vs. bs all for the sake of one module. ONE MODULE! Gimme a freakin break man. Oh my god, if nos is this uber weapon of doom that you think it is, then fly nothing but a nos-domi or something and stop whining. If you're right then the rest of us will all die to your ship every time, right? What you said above can, with some variation, be said about just about every module in the game with the possible exception of hull expanders. Does nossing give huge advantages to some ships in some situations? Yes, it does. And so do, for example, sensor dampeners. Oh, but sensor damps are easy to counter, right? You just use sensor boosters, or mwd up into range, wait 20 seconds to lock and then pound the ship. Wait, are you saying that if you don't have the mid slots, or your ships can't cath up with whatever ship is dampening you you are always screwed? Are Amarr ships (few mid slots and rather slow), Caldari ships (mainly long-range weapons and rather slow), most battleships in general (slow, mainly long-range, and low scan-resolution) all worthless? Should we sacrifice all long range combat and sniping? All that for one freaking module? One module, man???? ------------------ "If you ever need anything, please don't Hesitate to ask someone else first."

Gamesguy Amarr E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.04.25 22:15:00 - [141] Originally by: Hannobaal Oh, but sensor damps are easy to counter, right? You just use sensor boosters, or mwd up into range, wait 20 seconds to lock and then pound the ship. Wait, are you saying that if you don't have the mid slots, or your ships can't cath up with whatever ship is dampening you you are always screwed? Are Amarr ships (few mid slots and rather slow), Caldari ships (mainly long-range weapons and rather slow), most battleships in general (slow, mainly long-range, and low scan-resolution) all worthless? Should we sacrifice all long range combat and sniping? All that for one freaking module? One module, man???? Last I checked damps didnt reach 200km. WTS: Clue.
MrDisposable Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2007.04.25 22:19:00 - [142] Originally by: Hannobaal Originally by: MrDisposable Edited by: MrDisposable on 25/04/2007 21:41:53 Originally by: Hannobaal yada yada Ok so amarr just have to suck it up is what your saying? Same with Blaster boats and active shield tankers. Wow good job you just said three types of gameplay should be sacrificed for one module to stay in the game. Any ship that does not fit a faction scrambler (over 24km) has to either be able to hold upto huge amounts of NOS or loos the target. That would ecompass just about all ships in game, not just frigates. Hey so that kinda makes it like the offensive WCS doesn't it? Can't scramble me I'll just nos til I can run!!! Seeing alot of people fight much less effectively because they do not like the flavor of the month doesn't make it right. NOS is the be all end all defense against small ships. Name one other module (other than DDD) that completely disables smaller ships the way NOS does? Quote: At least I have something other than my lack of imagination and a 'everything should have a very clear and blatantly apparent counter tactic or be removed from the game' attitude for an argument. If CCP had that attitude there'd be no Eve because it would all be nerfed into extinction. No you don't and no they wouldn't. According to you lasers aren't a big loss, nor active tanking, nor frigates vs. bs all for the sake of one module. ONE MODULE! Gimme a freakin break man. Oh my god, if nos is this uber weapon of doom that you think it is, then fly nothing but a nos-domi or something and stop whining. If you're right then the rest of us will all die to your ship every time, right? What you said above can, with some variation, be said about just about every module in the game with the possible exception of hull expanders. Does nossing give huge advantages to some ships in some situations? Yes, it does. And so do, for example, sensor dampeners. Oh, but sensor damps are easy to counter, right? You just use sensor boosters, or mwd up into range, wait 20 seconds to lock and then pound the ship. Wait, are you saying that if you don't have the mid slots, or your ships can't cath up with whatever ship is dampening you you are always screwed? Are Amarr ships (few mid slots and rather slow), Caldari ships (mainly long-range weapons and rather slow), most battleships in general (slow, mainly long-range, and low scan-resolution) all worthless? Should we sacrifice all long range combat and sniping? All that for one freaking module? One module, man???? Good job on oversimplification and trying to derail the issue at hand. Damps take up a midslot, they only harm the enemy while not supplanting your tank. They do not eliminate multiple forms and styles of gameplay (or make the obsolete). True there is a problem with dampners, it has to do with sloppy coding. The stacking penalties are applied improperly and therefor 1 sensor dampner is not countered by 1 sensor booster such as balance would require. So I take it that means you concied that NOS is overpowered and this one module counters way to many different things right? I mean I do not know how I could not come away from your post thinking that based on your obvious and totally incorrect derailment of the subject. Stop your obvious defending of something you know to be overpowered. You were probally on the front forum lines picketing the ECM nerf or nano nerf or anything else that is obviously overpowered. Without the addition of nos to a damp boat, a damp boat doesn't have teeth. Most likely that toothless damp boat cannot even hold the target in-place since its outside of scramble range. How about countering my points from 2-3 posts ago instead of setting up strawman arguments? ______________ BoB Alts "This isn't about Dev misconduct.... ban the Ctrl+q'rs! They are the real problem behind it ALL!!!!!" "Devs stole BPOs for the good of eve."
Hannobaal Gallente Utopian Frontier	Posted - 2007.04.25 22:20:00 - [143] Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Hannobaal Oh, but sensor damps are easy to counter, right? You just use sensor boosters, or mwd up into range, wait 20 seconds to lock and then pound the ship. Wait, are you saying that if you don't have the mid slots, or your ships can't cath up with whatever ship is dampening you you are always screwed? Are Amarr ships (few mid slots and rather slow), Caldari ships (mainly long-range weapons and rather slow), most battleships in general (slow, mainly long-range, and low scan-resolution) all worthless? Should we sacrifice all long range combat and sniping? All that for one freaking module? One module, man???? Last I checked damps didnt reach 200km. WTS: Clue. Last I checked, nosses don't either. ------------------ "If you ever need anything, please don't Hesitate to ask someone else first."
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.04.25 22:28:00 - [144] lol forums are ******* awesome \o/ This thread, its just...damn so much rabble. _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
MrDisposable Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2007.04.25 22:28:00 - [145] Originally by: Hannobaal Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Hannobaal Oh, but sensor damps are easy to counter, right? You just use sensor boosters, or mwd up into range, wait 20 seconds to lock and then pound the ship. Wait, are you saying that if you don't have the mid slots, or your ships can't cath up with whatever ship is dampening you you are always screwed? Are Amarr ships (few mid slots and rather slow), Caldari ships (mainly long-range weapons and rather slow), most battleships in general (slow, mainly long-range, and low scan-resolution) all worthless? Should we sacrifice all long range combat and sniping? All that for one freaking module? One module, man???? Last I checked damps didnt reach 200km. WTS: Clue. Last I checked, nosses don't either. Dude you have been proven wrong plenty of times in this thread. You should really back out before you make yourself look even worse. Simple fact of the matter is NOS shut down and rule all combat within scramble range for a myriad of ships. So far I have counted 4 playstyles that NOS cmpletely ruins. You haven't even given me one concrete example of damps completely and without counter shutting down one playstyle, let alone at the very least 4. ______________ BoB Alts "This isn't about Dev misconduct.... ban the Ctrl+q'rs! They are the real problem behind it ALL!!!!!" "Devs stole BPOs for the good of eve."
Hannobaal Gallente Utopian Frontier	Posted - 2007.04.25 22:39:00 - [146] Originally by: MrDisposable Good job on oversimplification and trying to derail the issue at hand. Thank you. I aim to please. Quote: Damps take up a midslot, they only harm the enemy while not supplanting your tank. They do not eliminate multiple forms and styles of gameplay (or make the obsolete). Nor do nosses unless you think not being able to effectively use every single existing ship, fitting, or tactic in Eve against a ship that uses them = eliminating those ships fittings or tactics from the game. Quote: So I take it that means you concied that NOS is overpowered and this one module counters way to many different things right? I think a lot modules in Eve counter a lot of different things at once. I like to use those modules on my ships. Quote: I mean I do not know how I could not come away from your post thinking that based on your obvious and totally incorrect derailment of the subject. There is no subject to derail. Your whole argument seems to be that a ship that uses nos will kill any ship out there that doesn't. Quote: Stop your obvious defending of something you know to be overpowered. Stop pretending that every module in Eve needs to have an easy and blatantly apparent way to counter in every situation and with every ship in Eve. Quote: You were probally on the front forum lines picketing the ECM nerf or nano nerf or anything else that is obviously overpowered. I wasn't playing Eve yet when ecm was nerfed, and I wasn't on the forums until right before the change to speed modules. I think the latter change was good, but ecm is pretty much worthless right now. When even a blackbird sacrificing all of its midslots and lowslots (no tank) for ecm modules can't get very much out of it, there is a problem there. Quote: Without the addition of nos to a damp boat, a damp boat doesn't have teeth. Most likely that toothless damp boat cannot even hold the target in-place since its outside of scramble range. The same can be said about a lot of ships when it comes to nossing since nos actually uses high slots that are meant for weapons. Quote: How about countering my points from 2-3 posts ago instead of setting up strawman arguments? How about you presenting a real logical argument first? ------------------ "If you ever need anything, please don't Hesitate to ask someone else first."
Hannobaal Gallente Utopian Frontier	Posted - 2007.04.25 22:53:00 - [147] Originally by: MrDisposable Dude you have been proven wrong plenty of times in this thread. You should really back out before you make yourself look even worse. Simple fact of the matter is NOS shut down and rule all combat within scramble range for a myriad of ships. So far I have counted 4 playstyles that NOS cmpletely ruins. You haven't even given me one concrete example of damps completely and without counter shutting down one playstyle, let alone at the very least 4. If nos completely ruins all combat within scramble range for a myriad of ships then so do sensor damps. A ship that uses lasers and armor tank can't effectively fight against a nossing ship within scramble range? Well, a ship that can't catch a fast ship with sensor damps can't either. You asked for counters against nosses, I gave you several. So instead you say that every ship, fitting or tactic that can't use those counters I listed (and there are more than the ones I listed) are effectively worthless in Eve and not worth using just because of nossing? I'd say if there weren't situations where nossing is higly effective there'd be no reason to use it and we might as well not have it in the game. Does it mean that anything that suffers against a nossing ship is worthless? No, they still have many uses. It just means they shouldn't go up against a ship with nosses they can't handle. ------------------ "If you ever need anything, please don't Hesitate to ask someone else first."
MrDisposable Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2007.04.25 23:13:00 - [148] Drone boats do not sacrifice much when fitting for a NOS+supertank, and a few minmatar vessels do not sacrifce any meaningful DPS when fitting 1-2 NOS, hell it doesn't even effect their setup due to the amazingly easy fitting of ACs. See nos does more or less eliminate certain forms of gameplay (esp ceptors doing their job) because everyone uses it. Everyone uses a module because it is overpowered. When the only true counter for a module is itself guess what that module is? Overpowered. NOS ensures that no frigate class vessel can effectively hold them down (something frigates are designed for.) Nos nerfs an ENTIRE RACE and forces them to fit weapons from another (another sign of imbalance.) NOS turns any cap dependant ship into a useless flying soon-to-be-wreck, and it does all this while providing an immense boost to the user. Thats way too much good without enough bad. No other module in game can makes such a claim. If the devs really thought it out, they would most likely change all NOS modules to destabilizers. Seriously when the thought of making an X-LRG NOS makes everyone laugh it must make even you think thats an overpowered module. I realize that nos allows you to compete with the rest of eve because it does no require skill or strategy. Its a non-counterable module thats a sure advantage, and the more the merrier. Should we honestly make a list of ships that NOS bones over when performing their intended roles? Armageddon Apoc Abaddon Maller Demios Megathron ALL frigate class vessels Omen Harbringer Prophecy Brutix Blackbird Rook Sacriledge Absolution any fleet command ship Coercer Zealot Malestrom Any cruiser class ship really Raven Scorpion Actually I am gonna stop there, I cannot think of any ships other than NOS-drone boats and passive tank/gank ships that are not affected by NOS. You cannot out transversal it, you cannot outrun it, you can tank it, you can try to outrange (if you can) but who is gonna stick around then? IF you really cannot see how this single module is sooo completely overpowered then your either an idiot or lying. I agree witht he concept of cap war, I agree with destablizers, I don't like pwn-all NOS. ______________ BoB Alts "This isn't about Dev misconduct.... ban the Ctrl+q'rs! They are the real problem behind it ALL!!!!!" "Devs stole BPOs for the good of eve."
Gamesguy Amarr E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.04.25 23:16:00 - [149] Originally by: Hannobaal If nos completely ruins all combat within scramble range for a myriad of ships then so do sensor damps. A ship that uses lasers and armor tank can't effectively fight against a nossing ship within scramble range? Well, a ship that can't catch a fast ship with sensor damps can't either. A fast ship with damps generally dont do that much dps, and a single sensor booster will let you lock to about 22km against 3 damps on a near max skilled hostile. A single nos does nothing against a nos boat, except maybe give you enough cap to turn on your hardeners. Btw I fly a nos/damp domi, its so ridiculously overpowered solo I feel dirty doing it.
MrDisposable Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2007.04.25 23:17:00 - [150] Edited by: MrDisposable on 25/04/2007 23:14:08 Originally by: Hannobaal Originally by: MrDisposable Dude you have been proven wrong plenty of times in this thread. You should really back out before you make yourself look even worse. Simple fact of the matter is NOS shut down and rule all combat within scramble range for a myriad of ships. So far I have counted 4 playstyles that NOS cmpletely ruins. You haven't even given me one concrete example of damps completely and without counter shutting down one playstyle, let alone at the very least 4. If nos completely ruins all combat within scramble range for a myriad of ships then so do sensor damps. A ship that uses lasers and armor tank can't effectively fight against a nossing ship within scramble range? Well, a ship that can't catch a fast ship with sensor damps can't either. You asked for counters against nosses, I gave you several. So instead you say that every ship, fitting or tactic that can't use those counters I listed (and there are more than the ones I listed) are effectively worthless in Eve and not worth using just because of nossing? I'd say if there weren't situations where nossing is higly effective there'd be no reason to use it and we might as well not have it in the game. Does it mean that anything that suffers against a nossing ship is worthless? No, they still have many uses. It just means they shouldn't go up against a ship with nosses they can't handle. Oh and I already showed you that damp-mobiles without nos are mostly harmless, and you can always warp-out if they are too far away from you. You gave me situational counters to NOS that are extremely specific and not available to about half of the ships in the game. Someone is gonna damp you? Fit a sensor booster (and fix the damn code CCP). Someone is gonna NOS you? Bring more NOS or die..... I'll let you figure out what is balanced. EDIT: also read the last page, there are 2 replies there you should read aswell. ______________ BoB Alts "This isn't about Dev misconduct.... ban the Ctrl+q'rs! They are the real problem behind it ALL!!!!!" "Devs stole BPOs for the good of eve."



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