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Lucian Alucard
Caldari Generals Of Destruction Syndicate Terror In The System
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Posted - 2007.04.25 00:08:00 -
[91]
Why not just treat Nos like gunnery minus the absurdity of needing tracking,make skills that limit range,amount,cycle time,cap use and fitting of them then adjust the following accordingly, at max skills tho Nos should be more powerful then now but you will have to spend several months to get that.
Nos are really the only defense a bs has against smaller ships and it should be regulated but not nerfed to the point to where any ship can kill them,teir 2 bc do need to be revamped as well.
Leave the Curse alone just nerf Nanos.
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murder one
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2007.04.25 00:21:00 -
[92]
In reply to all the 'Drakes can't tackle/PVP w/ a tank setup' posts: I can usually spare 1-2 slots for a scram and Web. All I need is 3x LSE2s and 1x Invuln2 in the highs usually to tank just fine. No, I don't have an afterburner, but w/e.
Additionally, I realise that it's not the 'ships' themselves, but the horrible confluence of rigs and mods and other game design elements that comes together to make these ships the way they are.
As for Vagabonds, they are unlike any other ship in the game. Their speed simply makes them unkillable unless you have a Huginn to web them. I'm making the assumption that the Vaga pilot has A) the intelligence to fly it properly and isn't a complete idiot, and B) has the intelligence to fit it properly in the first place.
Simply staying that 'OMG, I killed a bunch of Vaga pilots with my Raven before' doesn't mean anything if they're all retarded Vaga pilots. There simply isn't any defence against Vagas when compared to other ships. Every other ship in the game can be attacked and fought in a similar fashion. Vagas are the exception. As for not having enough DPS to vaporize a BS: well, WTF? Of course it shouldn't. It's a cruiser.
As for the Myrm being overpowered w/ a passive shield tank etc.- it can't tackle or do anything else except PVE w/ a passive setup, and anyone who knows *anything* about PVP will pop a Myrm's drones and be done with it. It's so easy to kill those things it's a joke. I don't see what the fuss is about. It's not a Domi, it doesn't have 300m3+ of drone space. There are NO REPLACEMENT DRONES popping out if it has 5x heavies.
You people are juvenile in your continued reliance to 'omg, it's so powerful with it's 'BS sized' weapons (LOL?). Hello? BS sized? A Vexor can fit 3x Heavy drones.
I fly Gallente a lot. I fly drone ships a lot (never flown a Myrm on TQ, as I can't stand not having backup drones, and it does sh*t DPS w/o 5x T2 Heavies) (p.s., I've flown the Myrm literally hundreds of times on Sisi). I use nos a LOT. I would LOVE to see a massive across-the-board nos nerf.
Would this impact my ship setups and their effectiveness? Absolutely. Would I mind? Not in the least.
Revelations completely changed Eve, in subtle and insidious ways. The reduction of T2 ammo DPS by 20% across the board, the increase in HP and cap by 25%, and the introduction of rigs for things like speed and passive shield tanking that have literally zero effective penalties and all converged to make the game focused more on nos and tanking than on anything else.
It used to be that players would be *required* to have a couple billion ISK snake set in order to reach that critical speed threshold where the Vaga could fly around without worry. Now with rigs in the game that point of critical mass can be achieved with much less ISK and is becoming extremely common. High speed (and I mean -really- high speed) Vagas are becoming the norm, not the exception.
Every ship in eve fights in a comparable manner with the exception of the Drake (and Nighthawk/Vulture), Curse and Vaga. Nerf the modules, not the ships, but come on CCP, do something about it now that you've seen fit to nerf guns and DPS ships across the board.
Because I said so...
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Merin Ryskin
FinFleet Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2007.04.25 00:42:00 -
[93]
Originally by: murder one In reply to all the 'Drakes can't tackle/PVP w/ a tank setup' posts: I can usually spare 1-2 slots for a scram and Web. All I need is 3x LSE2s and 1x Invuln2 in the highs usually to tank just fine. No, I don't have an afterburner, but w/e.
Without an AB/MWD, a Drake is painfully slow. Good luck actually killing anything when it can just out-run you and warp away.
Quote: Every ship in eve fights in a comparable manner with the exception of the Drake (and Nighthawk/Vulture), Curse and Vaga. Nerf the modules, not the ships, but come on CCP, do something about it now that you've seen fit to nerf guns and DPS ships across the board.
You say that like it's a bad thing... unconventional setups are GOOD. EVE is supposed to be about strategy, not just mindless slugging matches.
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Spenz
Gallente FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.04.25 00:52:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
You say that like it's a bad thing... unconventional setups are GOOD. EVE is supposed to be about strategy, not just mindless slugging matches.
A ship that cant be killed by anything but cant kill anything in return (passive drake)...
If that isnt mindless then I dont know what is.
If I had an Alt I would probably post with it... |
Ren Tales
Null Horizon
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Posted - 2007.04.25 02:52:00 -
[95]
Yes, nos is overpowered.
But the others?
ZOMG I CAN'T BEAT IT NERFPLZKTHNKS
The vagabond is the ONLY speed tanker bigger than a ceptor. It should remain that way, a specialty niche ship thats incredibly hard to catch and kill (and yet its not that great in head to head combat)
Passive tanks overpowered? Please. They're hard to destroy, but the dps is a joke. ----
The name is Tal-ez, not Tay-uls. |
Megan Maynard
Minmatar RONA Deepspace
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Posted - 2007.04.25 03:04:00 -
[96]
Drake's DPS is horrible
Vagabond is dead as soon as it stops moving. (AND the patch was NOT supposed to nerf vagabonds or any small ships you dolt. Smaller ships were supposed to STAY fast after words. JEEZ)
curse relies on other ships to do it's damage.
All things balance out. These posts are dumb.
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Sadist
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.04.25 03:46:00 -
[97]
Edited by: Sadist on 25/04/2007 03:47:34
Originally by: murder one First post stuff
I actually agree with all that's been said above. Very good points made, spot on.
Originally by: Ryysa I think this thread is quickly becoming overpowered.
Its dps is rapidly approaching 9000. тттттттттттт
VIP member of the [23]
Quote: - Numbers alone do not win a battle - No, but I bet they help.
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Gamesguy
Amarr E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.04.25 03:57:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Ralara stuff
And on the otherhand, you lost your 2 bil faction fitted raven to a nos domi costing maybe 30mil to replace. Nos+damps is an extremely overpowered combo, especially in solo pvp.
As for vagabond not being able to kill BC/BS. Realize that a lot of pvp bs/bcs are passively armor tanked with no reps/maybe 1 med rep. For example a standard plated pulse geddon would die to a vaga eventually, simply because even with its massive hp it cant keep up with the vaga's dps.
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Gamesguy
Amarr E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.04.25 04:00:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Ren Tales Yes, nos is overpowered.
But the others?
ZOMG I CAN'T BEAT IT NERFPLZKTHNKS
The vagabond is the ONLY speed tanker bigger than a ceptor. It should remain that way, a specialty niche ship thats incredibly hard to catch and kill (and yet its not that great in head to head combat)
Thats like saying the pre-nerf nanophoon "its not that great in head to head combat". Vaga does far too much dps for a ship that moves that fast and can choose to disengage at will(bar minnie recon).
Quote: Passive tanks overpowered? Please. They're hard to destroy, but the dps is a joke.
Have you ever ran into a AC/passive shield tanked myrmidon? It does ridiculous DPS and tanks like crazy. But damps are even more overpowered so more people fit those in the 5 mids instead.
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Captain Crimson
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Posted - 2007.04.25 05:46:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Megan Maynard Drake's DPS is horrible
Vagabond is dead as soon as it stops moving. (AND the patch was NOT supposed to nerf vagabonds or any small ships you dolt. Smaller ships were supposed to STAY fast after words. JEEZ)
curse relies on other ships to do it's damage.
All things balance out. These posts are dumb.
No, these post's arent dumb... unlike your selfish one. Anyhoo...
Do something to nos other than make it better and there won't be anymore hardcore droneboats. Ergo, no more overpowered ships. The end.
Originally by: Tuxford I have already expressed my personal opinion on this and it was very positive (something about happy in the pants).
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Pan Crastus
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Posted - 2007.04.25 07:31:00 -
[101]
Originally by: murder one
The Vagabond. Always has been overpowered. Even after the speed nerf, it's still so fast that the only practical defense against it is a Huginn or Rapier. Nothing else will stop it, not even heavy web drones.
If you think the average 4km/s Vagabond is overpowered, you haven't seen some of the 10km/s Rapiers, 13km/s Sabres and 8km/s Machariels that are floating around in various PVP corps. At least the Vagabonds can be tackled by common Interceptors (hoping that he has no web), but nothing will catch those others (esp. Machariels with 30Km Faction Nos).
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Awox
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.04.25 07:46:00 -
[102]
Originally by: murder one The Vagabond. Always has been overpowered. Even after the speed nerf, it's still so fast that the only practical defense against it is a Huginn or Rapier. Nothing else will stop it, not even heavy web drones. I don't always have a Huginn handy. Change some of the damage and range bonuses so that it's either able to be set up as a heavy tackler with almost no DPS, or a light assault ship with more firepower but less speed, not extreme speed and good firepower at great range.
Vagabond does least damage of all the HACs, and speed is it's only defence. If you stick heavy nos on it you will send him packing. Sure that's not the same as killing him, but eh, it's not like he can web you to stop you from getting to a gate or station to jump/dock.. - BOOST OUTLAWS (-10.0 and proud of it) |
Redora
Gallente Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.04.25 07:46:00 -
[103]
With respect to the Drake: I disagree. As has been stated many times before, to fit the supertank that the Drake is famous for (a corpmate calls his "Pink Fluffy Bunny" with something near 16k shields and that coveted 150s recharge time) it can't fit scram/web/propulsion mods. 1v1ing the Drake in my Myrmidon, I'm able to hold him off with my own Nos/Injector/Repper, while my drones whittle down his tank. I can choose to warp off at any point because I'm not scrambled. He cannot, as he is stapled in space with my Web/Scram.
With respect to the Vagabond:
I again, disagree. I've seen them in action, and have faced them myself (to my chagrin at the time....). They're fast, they do decent damage, but any worthwhile bc/bs pilot will be able to hold them off--tank wise. Gimping it's ability to be fast, tackle to obscene distances, and do the damage it can do now would just make a specialized ship suck.
Ignoring Curse/Pilgrim, I think the ships are fine.
Nos:
I've seen a lot of discussion about this. Limit the number of nos, make it relative to sig radius... etc. My own thought is why not tie this into "Heat" (as well as stacking penalize them....)? Instead of limiting the number of mods you can fit on a ship, make it uncomfortable for the ship to activate say... More than 2 Nos/Neuts at a time (with special exception to Curse/Pilgrim/Ashimmu/Bhaalgorn, as they are Nos ships) Or you start taking damage. This means that ships you fit pure nos/neuts on *CoughVexorDominixMyrmidon* it's suddenly unproductive to, because you're taking damage (2x the pre-stacking nerf drain amount sound good?) for those extra Nos and getting the reduced amount of cap while you're at it. I wouldn't want ALL my Nos hit with this, as it's difficult to maintain a Dual Rep tank on Injector alone, especially when you're being nossed yourself. ---
Redora
"Know thine enemy and know thyself, and in 100 battles thou shalt not be in peril." --Sun Tzu |
Gabriel Karade
Nulli-Secundus
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Posted - 2007.04.25 07:55:00 -
[104]
I'd like to see this passive shield-tanked Drake setup that can 'tank a gank Hyperion permanently'... ----------
Video - 'War-Machine' |
Awox
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.04.25 07:56:00 -
[105]
Edited by: Awox on 25/04/2007 07:54:26
Originally by: Gabriel Karade I'd like to see this passive shield-tanked Drake setup that can 'tank a gank Hyperion permanently'...
Haven't you been to sisi where everyone can afford SPR II, the rare shield hardwirings and all the t2 shield rigs? - BOOST OUTLAWS (-10.0 and proud of it) |
murder one
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2007.04.25 08:00:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Gabriel Karade I'd like to see this passive shield-tanked Drake setup that can 'tank a gank Hyperion permanently'...
I actually ran out of ammo once trying to kill a passive tanked Drake outside a station. My mates had to ferry in more Void L and 800 charges, and I *still* couldn't take it down with 8x Ion2s. I had to literally dock and completely re-fit with 8x Neutron2s and then re-attack while they held him tackled until I could get a point back on him, and even then I needed their DPS from their T1 cruisers to put the DPS over the top to break his tank.
Because I said so...
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murder one
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2007.04.25 08:01:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Awox Edited by: Awox on 25/04/2007 07:54:26
Originally by: Gabriel Karade I'd like to see this passive shield-tanked Drake setup that can 'tank a gank Hyperion permanently'...
Haven't you been to sisi where everyone can afford SPR II, the rare shield hardwirings and all the t2 shield rigs?
LOL. Soo true. The Vultures are even worse lol. Took something like 7 Command ships (3 of which were Astartes I know for sure) to take down a Vulture in the BC FFA area.
Because I said so...
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kill0rbunny
Alpha-Hirogen The Pentagram
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Posted - 2007.04.25 08:09:00 -
[108]
Originally by: murder one LOL. Soo true. The Vultures are even worse lol. Took something like 7 Command ships (3 of which were Astartes I know for sure) to take down a Vulture in the BC FFA area.
Awww, a ship on sisi couldn't be killed.
The vulture cannot kill any ship with that setup anyways. Fleet Commands are made to tank 'til the whole fleet is dead and give gang bonuses to the gang while doing that. If you fit it this way you cannot kill anything. The vulture fits this role well.
The eos can tank pretty well too, but it has 5 Heavy Drones II and turret damage while doing it.
There is actually a reason why it is the most expensive fleet command while the vulture is relatively cheap.
Pew Pew!
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Amitabh Bachchan
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Posted - 2007.04.25 08:42:00 -
[109]
Yes - stacking nerf shield mods and Nos.
Also stacking nerf carp rechargers, relays and power diagnostic units. Also stacking nerf guns, so that having more than 1 gun gives a penelty.
And stacking nerf alts as well
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Divus
Black Omega Security GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.04.25 08:50:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Bein Glorious Avatar, Ragnarok, Erebus
-------------------------------------------------
"The first casualty of War is Truth" [Hiram Warren Johnson] |
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murder one
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2007.04.25 10:04:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Amitabh Bachchan Yes - stacking nerf shield mods and Nos.
Also stacking nerf carp rechargers, relays and power diagnostic units. Also stacking nerf guns, so that having more than 1 gun gives a penelty.
And stacking nerf alts as well
Carp are currently stacking nerfed.
Because I said so...
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Belenkas
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.04.25 10:05:00 -
[112]
Just wanted to say: nurf NOS and you effectively nurf the only class of ships Amarr can be proud of - recons. Recons will be totally useless if they can't disable their targets with NOS anymore. Curse already can really be used only as support ship for disabling enemies. Remove that and Curse can be removed from game as well. Pilgrim still stands a little chance due to covops cloak ability.
As for vaga, we had some trouble with one skilled player(playing since 2003 mids). He was just damn annoying going around popping some stuff. And when we hunt him, he can just run away. Camping at gate failed as he jumped and got back to gate and jumped back in a matter of seconds. With help of sentries, killed a command ship later. He did make a mistake once when inty started scramming him not far from gate and he decided to fight. That meant a loss of vaga, but the other day he came back in another vaga and continued annoying :) Can't say however that this ship is overpowered, you just need some brain and skills to use it wisely, choose your fights. There is a counter to him either way.
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The Yzzerman
Mortis Angelus
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Posted - 2007.04.25 11:32:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Gamesguy
Originally by: Ralara stuff
And on the otherhand, you lost your 2 bil faction fitted raven to a nos domi costing maybe 30mil to replace. Nos+damps is an extremely overpowered combo, especially in solo pvp.
As for vagabond not being able to kill BC/BS. Realize that a lot of pvp bs/bcs are passively armor tanked with no reps/maybe 1 med rep. For example a standard plated pulse geddon would die to a vaga eventually, simply because even with its massive hp it cant keep up with the vaga's dps.
You shouldnt fly a faction fitted raven if you cant afford to lose it anyway. And If it is so Valuable for you why dont you have support to defend you? I get the impression that most of the people in nerf Squad are mission and belt runners.
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Sailon
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Posted - 2007.04.25 12:05:00 -
[114]
there is one fix for noss make it amarr only so amarrs cap issued on guns will be fixed and there will be no noss domis problem solved next?
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TheEndofTheWorld
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Posted - 2007.04.25 13:03:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Awox
Originally by: murder one The Vagabond. Always has been overpowered. Even after the speed nerf, it's still so fast that the only practical defense against it is a Huginn or Rapier. Nothing else will stop it, not even heavy web drones. I don't always have a Huginn handy. Change some of the damage and range bonuses so that it's either able to be set up as a heavy tackler with almost no DPS, or a light assault ship with more firepower but less speed, not extreme speed and good firepower at great range.
Vagabond does least damage of all the HACs, and speed is it's only defence. If you stick heavy nos on it you will send him packing. Sure that's not the same as killing him, but eh, it's not like he can web you to stop you from getting to a gate or station to jump/dock..
Please don't troll...
Vagabond lowest dps of all hacs? hahaha...
What hac isn't killed by a heavy nosf? okk.. maybe full nosf ishtar, but still, ishtar would need to go into webrange for that...
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Ernest Graefenberg
Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.25 13:12:00 -
[116]
Originally by: murder one In reply to all the 'Drakes can't tackle/PVP w/ a tank setup' posts: I can usually spare 1-2 slots for a scram and Web. All I need is 3x LSE2s and 1x Invuln2 in the highs usually to tank just fine. No, I don't have an afterburner, but w/e.
Quote:
As for Vagabonds, they are unlike any other ship in the game. Their speed simply makes them unkillable unless you have a Huginn to web them.
Have you considered that these 2 seperate from reality pathologies in your playstyle might be related ? That maybe, just maybe, mobility is a major dynamic that doesn't shine properly on SiSi and seperates the boys from the men when things go down to the wire ?
Oh wait, no. Hundreds of hours of SiSi experience. Myyyyyyy baaaaaaaaaaaaaaad.
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Erotic Irony
RONA Deepspace
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Posted - 2007.04.25 14:13:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Sadist Edited by: Sadist on 25/04/2007 03:47:34
Originally by: murder one First post stuff
I actually agree with all that's been said above. Very good points made, spot on.
Originally by: Ryysa I think this thread is quickly becoming overpowered.
Its dps is rapidly approaching 9000.
Originally by: Awox
Originally by: murder one The Vagabond. Always has been overpowered...
Vagabond does least damage of all the HACs, and speed is it's only defence. If you stick heavy nos on it you will send him packing. Sure that's not the same as killing him, but eh, it's not like he can web you to stop you from getting to the ships & modules forum.
Fixed. ___
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Gamesguy
Amarr E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.04.25 14:45:00 -
[118]
Edited by: Gamesguy on 25/04/2007 14:41:56
Originally by: The Yzzerman
Originally by: Gamesguy
Originally by: Ralara stuff
And on the otherhand, you lost your 2 bil faction fitted raven to a nos domi costing maybe 30mil to replace. Nos+damps is an extremely overpowered combo, especially in solo pvp.
As for vagabond not being able to kill BC/BS. Realize that a lot of pvp bs/bcs are passively armor tanked with no reps/maybe 1 med rep. For example a standard plated pulse geddon would die to a vaga eventually, simply because even with its massive hp it cant keep up with the vaga's dps.
You shouldnt fly a faction fitted raven if you cant afford to lose it anyway. And If it is so Valuable for you why dont you have support to defend you? I get the impression that most of the people in nerf Squad are mission and belt runners.
What are you on about? I was the one that killed the quoted player's faction fitted raven.
Most people in the "nerf squad" are pvpers. Murder one is a pirate IIRC and I'm a 0.0 pvper. Most people in this thread are pvpers.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.04.25 14:55:00 -
[119]
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: Amitabh Bachchan Yes - stacking nerf shield mods and Nos.
Also stacking nerf carp rechargers, relays and power diagnostic units. Also stacking nerf guns, so that having more than 1 gun gives a penelty.
And stacking nerf alts as well
Carp are currently stacking nerfed.
Is that of-fish-ial?
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Gibbal Slogspit
Buffed Rumpuss Zit Dids
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Posted - 2007.04.25 17:13:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Alpine 69 1. Myrmidon 2. Dominix 3. Eos
Spot.....ON!
And Vagabonds overpowered?
HAHAHAHAHA.
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