| Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 27 :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Buxaroo
Constructive Influence
   |
Posted - 2007.04.25 18:32:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Blue Pixie
Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn
...You can basically enter any system and cloak without worry and sit there all day waiting for targets of opportunity and there is absolutely no counter.
Of course there's a counter... don't be a target of opportunity.
No matter what pro-cloakers say, cloaking needs to be nerfed like using cap or a timer. I am a recon pilot. But I rarely use them. Reason is that setting in a SS cloaked while I go watch a movie or whatever is terribly lame and pathetic. It only shows your ineptitude at real pvp.
I can roll off a list of corps/alliances that use these tactics and all would agree that most of them suck. Goons are pretty numerous with this "technique". Me and my friends keep sending them to their clone vats.
But I degress. Yes, there are ways to counter cloakers. One is that everyone in system should be ganged up (that's if same corp/alliance etc and on TS) and whenever one of the wannabees decloaks and starts shooting at a npcer, everyone converges and kills the lamer. Works for me . But all being said, setting in a SS afk while you go and watch Survivor or whatever is pretty lame way to play. You won't get respect and you don't deserve respect.
And if you don't care about respect or honor then your opinion means zilch.
"No matter where you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai |
Jimer Lins
Gallente
Sanctuary
|
Posted - 2007.04.25 18:32:00 -
[32]
I agree; there's nothing wrong with cloaks as they work now. I fail to see what the point of a cloaking device is if you can simply find a cloaked ship the same way you can a non-cloaked one. Cloaks cause enough handicaps to the ship fitting it already.
Let's not make cloaks an expensive and worthless hislot decoration.
Sanctions, embargoes and blockades- discuss PVP with ISK! |
Jimer Lins
Gallente
Sanctuary
|
Posted - 2007.04.25 18:36:00 -
[33]
Also, the problem with "AFKers" is not specific to cloaking. I don't think it's appropriate to break a game feature because people go AFK. There's better ways to eliminate problems with AFK players, and it shouldn't be applied to merely those who happen to be running a cloak.
Just put an activity timer on. If you're sitting someplace and dont do anything for 15 minutes, you get logged out. This timer wouldn't apply if you're docked.
Simple, and doesn't break cloaking for a bad reason.
Sanctions, embargoes and blockades- discuss PVP with ISK! |
MassonA
Caldari
coracao ardente
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2007.04.25 18:36:00 -
[34]
what about an anti-cloaking pulse that only a POS can send out, small / medium / large array with the appropriate range
once it decloaks the person they cannot recloak until it stops its pulse, or they move out of its range. it would also need to consume some sort of fuel (stront or whatever)
good for allianes with sov too
flame on
|
Blue Pixie
|
Posted - 2007.04.25 18:43:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Akita T
stuff
I like it, but I can foresee two big problems...
Step 3 more or less negates gate camps. This would result in two likely outcomes: a) everyone and their uncle fits a cloak & b) people litter the areas surrounding gates with a gazillion cans.
The other big problem? People currently don't want to take precautions even when they know there is a cloaked vessel in their system. Think they're gonna embrace the necessity of flying with a probe-capable ship/escort every time they undock/login? Not bloody likely.
|
Leto Nyx
|
Posted - 2007.04.25 18:43:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Jimer Lins
Also, the problem with "AFKers" is not specific to cloaking. I don't think it's appropriate to break a game feature because people go AFK. There's better ways to eliminate problems with AFK players, and it shouldn't be applied to merely those who happen to be running a cloak.
Just put an activity timer on. If you're sitting someplace and dont do anything for 15 minutes, you get logged out. This timer wouldn't apply if you're docked.
Simple, and doesn't break cloaking for a bad reason.
The simplest ideas are always the best, and often the hardest to spot.
I like this one. I suspect it would annoy the hell out of a few gatecampers and all the afk empire miners, but I still like it 
-----
Who do these gods think they are, with their 'holier than thou' attitude? |
Buxaroo
Constructive Influence
|
Posted - 2007.04.25 18:47:00 -
[37]
Originally by: MassonA
what about an anti-cloaking pulse that only a POS can send out, small / medium / large array with the appropriate range
once it decloaks the person they cannot recloak until it stops its pulse, or they move out of its range. it would also need to consume some sort of fuel (stront or whatever)
good for allianes with sov too
flame on
Good idea. But in essence this is about afkers who sit in a SS all day. It's not about cloakers being over powered damage wise or what not. It's about being able to scan down those who are afk and that scan probes should, with enough time and effort, reward you with busting a afker's SS. If he is trully playing the game and paying attention, then he should have no problem beating this tactic and only needs to switch SS. If the crybabies don't like that, then they are nothing more than carebears who want easy ganks without RISK. Risk goes both ways boys and girls.
"No matter where you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai |
Blue Pixie
|
Posted - 2007.04.25 19:01:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Buxaroo
...if you don't care about respect or honor then your opinion means zilch.
It's called guerilla warfare, brother. (Terrorism, if you're on the receiving end.) Respect and honor have squat to do with it.
Where's the honor in sniping far beyond your opponents' range to shoot back?
Where's the honor in amassing a larger blob than your opponents' fleet?
Where's the honor in locking down your opponent with EW, bubble camps or NOS?
Where's the honor in piracy, gatecamps or hunting down mission runners? Where's the honor in attacking non-combat oriented ships such as haulers, miners or shuttles? Heck, where's the honor in non-consensual PvP?
Yet people engage in these activities on a daily basis in EVE. Sometimes you can counter them, sometimes you can't. What do you want?
|
Chigger Troutslayer
Ferrus Syndicate
ASGARDIAN EMPIRE
|
Posted - 2007.04.25 19:07:00 -
[39]
Do not make cloaked ships probable. Sometimes nature calls when in hostile territory.
|
Hamfast
Gallente
|
Posted - 2007.04.25 19:13:00 -
[40]
I have a silly question...
I train the skills to use a Cloak, fit one on my Ship, find a system and energize my cloak...
Tell me how you know I am AFK? I may just be sitting watching Local Chat...in which case I am not AFK...
I may be playing with other things, see what is doing what... checking out the new toy on my ship... in which case I am not AFK... but you really can't tell unless I tell you... and I may not feel like chatting.
The point being there is no way to tell if I am AFK or just not in a chatty mood... AFK or seeing how fast I can get to a planet at 15 m/s (Heavy drinking can cause this as well as the lack of sleep)
So lets not swing the Nerf Bat at cloaks just because you "Think" someone may have gone AFK...
Noob in training...
|
|
|
Qolde
Minmatar
Guardian Heroes Inc.
|
Posted - 2007.04.25 19:23:00 -
[41]
After 15 minutes, the cloak should flash yellow, within this time, the player should remain cloaked. If the player does not press the cloak button again before the 20 minute mark, he decloaks. I know it would be a pain in the ass to program a whole new color on the ship module buttons, but its the best answer to defeat afk cloak warfare, and not nerf cloaks at all.
Never get popped again! |
Blue Pixie
|
Posted - 2007.04.25 19:27:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Hamfast
Tell me how you know I am AFK? I may just be sitting watching Local Chat...in which case I am not AFK...
They'd argue if you stayed logged in from downtime to downtime, ad nauseam for days on end, you're most likely AFK... at least for a significant portion of that time.
My guess is they'd be right. Furthermore, I'd also concede it's pretty "lame."
That said, I've yet to hear of a proposed counter that either a) couldn't be circumvented by a dedicated "AFK cloaker" or b) doesn't grossly undermine/penalize a non-AFK cloaker.
This issue is right up there with the whole "logoffski" debacle.
No matter what CCP does (if anything), someone's bound to be disappointed. Given their latest, ham-fisted approach to nanos (which screwed over ships like Blockade Runners), I'd stop skill training for cloaks now.
|
R0ot
InNova Tech Inc
Xelas Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.04.25 19:53:00 -
[43]
Edited by: R0ot on 25/04/2007 19:51:09
just make ships that arent ment to have cloaks on them be probable or something, all covert ops and force recon ships are obviously ment to use them.
EDIT: The ones that are annoying are those 0.0 isk farmers that just go safe and cloak when someone enters system. Those ravens/megas/domis are really annoying, near impossible to catch and when you do catch them its a battle for the logging on and off trick. 
------------------------------------------------------------------
|
Hannobaal
Gallente
Utopian Frontier
|
Posted - 2007.04.25 20:23:00 -
[44]
Originally by: The Slayette
Originally by: Ariel Dawn
Do not remove AFK cloakers.
People shouldn't be able to rat/mine completely risk-free in 0.0. If they want the benefits, then they should adequately prepare to defend themselves. Otherwise CCP will continue along their path of making this game like WoW (re. nerfing war decs).
People shouldn'y be able to GO TO THE PUB completely risk-free in 0.0. I am happy to defend myself, I would just like to be able to go on the offensive against enemies in my home system.
How is someone being cloaked in your system and at the pub any different from someone having logged off in your system (in a safe spot) and at the pub? There is only one difference. In the first case you actually know about his presence, and that is in your favor.
------------------
"If you ever need anything, please don't
Hesitate to ask someone else first." |
Yilaine Anesis
Malicious Intentions
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.04.25 20:35:00 -
[45]
I agree 100% with everything Blue Pixie has said in this post.
I want to reinforce the fact that this game, like anything in life, is not necessarily balanced, nor should it be. Cloaked ships should be invisible, end of story. If they are able to be detected, what is the point of cloaking in the first place? If you get popped by a force recon while you are solo-mining in a covetor, you deserve to have your ship destroyed for not taking the proper precautions and protecting yourself somehow.
Part of what I like about EVE is that it works on many different levels. I have not heard of any other game where so many different tactics can be used in PvP situations. Cloaking is one of those. Being an invisible presence in local and making others afraid to undock is a valid strategy. This is war people. How does that saying go? All's fair in love and war?
EVE is merciless. If you can't take the stress of some cloaked ship sitting in your system 23/7, perhaps you should play something else, or find an alternate system/corp/profession to make your iskies.
|
SiJira
|
Posted - 2007.04.25 20:40:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Ariel Dawn
Do not remove AFK cloakers.
People shouldn't be able to rat/mine completely risk-free in 0.0. If they want the benefits, then they should adequately prepare to defend themselves. Otherwise CCP will continue along their path of making this game like WoW (re. nerfing war decs).
QFT QFT !!!
|
SiJira
|
Posted - 2007.04.25 20:42:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Vyyrus
With no way of detecting afk cloakers, there is no way of defending yourself. Most of them like to gank miners which have no means of defense. Maybe if they warp back to station to get their other ship but by that time he is already dead and ship has moved on. So yes something needs to be done not nerfing it but some means of detection.
so you are saying miners should be able to go mining solo in 0.4 and below ?
please be serious before you post.
|
SiJira
|
Posted - 2007.04.25 20:44:00 -
[48]
Originally by: The Slayette
Originally by: Ariel Dawn
Do not remove AFK cloakers.
People shouldn't be able to rat/mine completely risk-free in 0.0. If they want the benefits, then they should adequately prepare to defend themselves. Otherwise CCP will continue along their path of making this game like WoW (re. nerfing war decs).
People shouldn'y be able to GO TO THE PUB completely risk-free in 0.0. I am happy to defend myself, I would just like to be able to go on the offensive against enemies in my home system.
The whole reason for cloaking is so they can wage a war in your mind - make you fear all the time.
making anything to scan them is dumb !
|
SiJira
|
Posted - 2007.04.25 20:45:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn
I'd be dollars to doughnuts that within the next six months cloaks are nerfed. Way too many people using them on every ship type right now. You can basically enter any system and cloak without worry and sit there all day waiting for targets of opportunity and there is absolutely no counter.
Ok I agree - make some great penalty on ships that are not meant to have it like battleships and above, but
DO NOT NERF THE SHIPS THAT ARE MADE FOR CLOAKING
EVER
scan probes -> nerfing all cloakers -> stupid
|
Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
We Are Nice Guys
|
Posted - 2007.04.25 20:46:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Akita T
Of course, now you also have the added "generic" terror of having a cloaker in system and NOT knowing about it.
But quite frankly, that's the BEST part of it all
Yes, the solution to AFK cloakers is to make it so EVERY SYSTEM effectivly has an AFK cloaker in it.
Way to go Akita, you have achieved to a new level of double think.
----------------------------------------
Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
|
|
Yellow Pixie
|
Posted - 2007.04.25 20:55:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Doppleganger
I think there are some ways to do small tweaks to cloaks but I dont think they should nerf afk cloaking. You should never feel safe in this game anywhere. If you can't tell if someone in system is sitting cloaked afk or not best to bring enough protection to remove any concerns.
All this talk makes me think we should not look at ways of fixing cloaks or probes but on removing local chat. (never been a huge fan of it but its an idea thats really growing on me)
Read what I bolded from your own quote. AFK cloakers sit in space in a 0.0 system with 100 hostiles who cannot, no matter what they do, find him. Read what I bolded again. Now ponder for a moment what I might be trying to say.
|
SiJira
|
Posted - 2007.04.25 21:29:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Jimer Lins
I agree; there's nothing wrong with cloaks as they work now. I fail to see what the point of a cloaking device is if you can simply find a cloaked ship the same way you can a non-cloaked one. Cloaks cause enough handicaps to the ship fitting it already.
Let's not make cloaks an expensive and worthless hislot decoration.
seriously
you can scan out non cloaks - why should cloaks be able to be scanned out ?
sure make something to prevent people from going afk hour 6+ hours but not something that would cost money - like fuel - or cause you to run out of cap thats just making it useless
|
Becq Starforged
Minmatar
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
|
Posted - 2007.04.25 21:31:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Jimer Lins
Also, the problem with "AFKers" is not specific to cloaking. I don't think it's appropriate to break a game feature because people go AFK. There's better ways to eliminate problems with AFK players, and it shouldn't be applied to merely those who happen to be running a cloak.
Just put an activity timer on. If you're sitting someplace and dont do anything for 15 minutes, you get logged out. This timer wouldn't apply if you're docked.
Simple, and doesn't break cloaking for a bad reason.
This is a great idea. I'd favor making the timer a bit longer (perhaps after 25 minutes you get a 5 minute warning that you will log out if you don't at least press a key), as well as removing the docked exemption, but this idea deserves some attention. A nice side benefit of this is that the number of inactive players that the server has to keep track of would be decreased significantly by removing the people who leave themselves logged in all day while at work, etc -- which might have a positive impact on lag.
(Note that nobody should expect this to impact macroers, as the macros would look like activity to server.)
I also thought the following (similar) idea was good, though it's directed only at cloaks; I prefer the more general approach above.
Originally by: Quolde
After 15 minutes, the cloak should flash yellow, within this time, the player should remain cloaked. If the player does not press the cloak button again before the 20 minute mark, he decloaks. I know it would be a pain in the ass to program a whole new color on the ship module buttons, but its the best answer to defeat afk cloak warfare, and not nerf cloaks at all.
--
Becq Starforged
proprietor of Starforge Industries, a subsidiary of Minmatar Ship Construction Services
At Starforge Industries, the world of tomorrow is being blown apart today! |
Blue Pixie
|
Posted - 2007.04.25 21:35:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Goumindong
Yes, the solution to AFK cloakers is to make it so EVERY SYSTEM effectivly has an AFK cloaker in it.
Way to go Akita, you have achieved to a new level of double think.
Nice job taking Akita's comments out of context.
You conveniently left out her suggestion...
Originally by: Akita T
STEP 1 : Have probes able to detect cloaked ships.
Now, wether it's with or without a lot of added difficulty, that's less relevant.
The relevant part is that you can actually FIND a cloaked ship if you're looking for it.
Every system effectively has an AFK cloaker in it? Not if you're willing to put the effort in to probe them out. Of course, without the crutch of meta-gaming the chat tab, you obviously can't be bothered.
Here's the part where you tell us that launching a probe every time you're uncertain of your surroundings would exceed your acceptable "operational cost."
P.S.: Cute nickname, Yellow Pixie!
|
Dimitrios Ypsilanti
|
Posted - 2007.04.25 21:39:00 -
[55]
Originally by: SiJira
the whines asking for scan probes / nerf cloak are on the same level as the whines asking for everywhere in empire to be 100% safe except these guys exist in lo sec and 0.0
By continuing to post to this issue you ensure that it stays on the front page day after day.
This level of coverage will force the devs to take action.
You play right into my hands!
Bwahahahahaha...
|
SiJira
|
Posted - 2007.04.25 21:39:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Yilaine Anesis
I agree 100% with everything Blue Pixie has said in this post.
I want to reinforce the fact that this game, like anything in life, is not necessarily balanced, nor should it be. Cloaked ships should be invisible, end of story. If they are able to be detected, what is the point of cloaking in the first place? If you get popped by a force recon while you are solo-mining in a covetor, you deserve to have your ship destroyed for not taking the proper precautions and protecting yourself somehow.
Part of what I like about EVE is that it works on many different levels. I have not heard of any other game where so many different tactics can be used in PvP situations. Cloaking is one of those. Being an invisible presence in local and making others afraid to undock is a valid strategy. This is war people. How does that saying go? All's fair in love and war?
EVE is merciless. If you can't take the stress of some cloaked ship sitting in your system 23/7, perhaps you should play something else, or find an alternate system/corp/profession to make your iskies.
QFT
beautiful post
|
Skraeling Shortbus
Caldari
Gallente Federal Bank
FREGE Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.04.25 21:41:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Ariel Dawn
Do not remove AFK cloakers.
People shouldn't be able to rat/mine completely risk-free in 0.0. If they want the benefits, then they should adequately prepare to defend themselves. Otherwise CCP will continue along their path of making this game like WoW (re. nerfing war decs).
people shouldnt be able to avoid pvp forever either...
|
SiJira
|
Posted - 2007.04.25 21:42:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Dimitrios Ypsilanti
Originally by: SiJira
the whines asking for scan probes / nerf cloak are on the same level as the whines asking for everywhere in empire to be 100% safe except these guys exist in lo sec and 0.0
By continuing to post to this issue you ensure that it stays on the front page day after day.
This level of coverage will force the devs to take action.
You play right into my hands!
Bwahahahahaha...
you would be surprised if they removed local and made probes insanely hard and inefficient to use  if they even add them at all
|
Azerrad InExile
|
Posted - 2007.04.25 21:43:00 -
[59]
So do we get to nerf people sitting in stations AFK then? I mean, how can you be sure you're safe if theres some evil person sitting in station all day AFK just waiting to attack your haulers and miners?
OMGNERF!
|
SiJira
|
Posted - 2007.04.25 21:53:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Azerrad InExile
So do we get to nerf people sitting in stations AFK then? I mean, how can you be sure you're safe if theres some evil person sitting in station all day AFK just waiting to attack your haulers and miners?
OMGNERF!
seriously
thanks for post
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 27 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |