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Please do NOT nerf cloaking in anyway including scan probes

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Ozstar Naughty 40	Posted - 2007.05.02 08:49:00 - [391] Edited by: Ozstar on 02/05/2007 08:48:02 Originally by: MeGotAnswers E-War + Uncounterable Stealth = Tough, but OK E-War + Mitigateable Stealth + Gank = Tough, but OK E-War + Uncounterable Stealth + Gank = Overpowered Thats the problem with threads like this, most of the people dont know WTF their talking about.
Blue Pixie	Posted - 2007.05.02 08:59:00 - [392] Originally by: ghosttr That attitude right there is just the one that has kept thins thing going as long as it has. They require active effort to try and counter them, and they cannot be countered, and can have a substantial financial impact on the players in system, even if not active. You know, I keep hearing that. Goumindong in particular has gone to great lengths in speculating about "operational cost" and how much revenue could be made by X number of pilots mining Y hours in Empire. But you know what I haven't heard yet? How much revenue could be made by X number of pilots mining (or ratting for that matter) Y hours in 0.0 space? Until you're willing to be a little more forthcoming with that side of the equation, don't expect claims of "substantial financial impact" to be taken too seriously.
ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.02 09:29:00 - [393] Originally by: Blue Pixie Originally by: ghosttr That attitude right there is just the one that has kept thins thing going as long as it has. They require active effort to try and counter them, and they cannot be countered, and can have a substantial financial impact on the players in system, even if not active. You know, I keep hearing that. Goumindong in particular has gone to great lengths in speculating about "operational cost" and how much revenue could be made by X number of pilots mining Y hours in Empire. But you know what I haven't heard yet? How much revenue could be made by X number of pilots mining (or ratting for that matter) Y hours in 0.0 space? Until you're willing to be a little more forthcoming with that side of the equation, don't expect claims of "substantial financial impact" to be taken too seriously. If i have to put up 5 ships to defend my system from said cloaker. Then the loss is the potential profits that those 5 guys can make if they were spending the same amount of time earning isk.
TZeer BURN EDEN Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2007.05.02 09:30:00 - [394] Quote: I didnt want to bother to figure the lock range of various recons and cov-ops after 4 RSD's we applied. How can you then claim to "know" how to fix the problem when youd dont even bother to get the right facts? Quote: I must admit i underestimated the lock range of the recons, but 13km lock range isnt going to win any awards for the person on the other end. We aint talking about the damps... remember? Quote: probing is the solution to afking and balance. Solution for an easy gank on your part. Quote: You cant move fast enough to go about any sort of work. If there is a recon in system, the way to not get ganked is to move, And you want to make the cov op useless since he will have to move all the time, and not abel to do his work. Hide and scout. Quote: the issue is there should be a way to take the fight back to them. Have no problem with that. But probe down cloaked ships isnt it. get a module or something that declaoks the cloaker, then we would be moving somewhere.
TZeer BURN EDEN Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2007.05.02 09:39:00 - [395] Quote: The problem is finding a solution that A: Doesnt not allow for easy macroing. B: Doesnt allow any ship with a cloak to be completely invulnerable. Solution for macroing is easy. Do the same as on most forums. Enter a code that pop up on a picture. Cloaked ship are not invulnerable. Every time they go into a fight or jump through a gate they are on the same level as all the others. Quote: The problem is that was againt the ones that were active not the 23/7 afk cloakers ARE YOU BLIND OR SOMETHING!!! Then do something with the afk problem, dont mess up a module thats working as intended. Sheesh, are you even reading the replies? Quote: That attitude right there is just the one that has kept thins thing going as long as it has. They require active effort to try and counter them, and they cannot be countered, and can have a substantial financial impact on the players in system, even if not active. Again, deal with the afk problem. Dont try and swing it as it`s the modules fault. Quote: If i have to put up 5 ships to defend my system from said cloaker. Then the loss is the potential profits that those 5 guys can make if they were spending the same amount of time earning isk. If you have to use 5 ships to deal with one cloaker you seriously need to get spanked. No one should need 5 ships for that. What on earth are you doing?
Blue Pixie	Posted - 2007.05.02 09:44:00 - [396] Originally by: ghosttr If i have to put up 5 ships to defend my system from said cloaker. Then the loss is the potential profits that those 5 guys can make if they were spending the same amount of time earning isk. And...? If the profits still exceed what those five guys would be earning in the relative safety of Empire... what's your point? That you're not profiting off the lowest security space to be found in the game... as much as humanly possible?
ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.02 09:47:00 - [397] Originally by: Blue Pixie Originally by: ghosttr If i have to put up 5 ships to defend my system from said cloaker. Then the loss is the potential profits that those 5 guys can make if they were spending the same amount of time earning isk. And...? If the profits still exceed what those five guys would be earning in the relative safety of Empire... what's your point? That you're not profiting off the lowest security space to be found in the game... as much as humanly possible? The point is that someone who is invulnerable and is not even at his computer is causing the loss in profits. We shouldnt be forced to play against someone who isnt there.
Blue Pixie	Posted - 2007.05.02 10:03:00 - [398] Originally by: ghosttr The point is that someone who is invulnerable and is not even at his computer is causing the loss in profits. We shouldnt be forced to play against someone who isnt there. Why not? Why do you think some players choose to stay in Empire? Do you think it's because the profits are greater? Do you think it's because they are absolutely, 100% certain that they'll get blown up if they venture into low sec or 0.0 space? Or do you think it's because they're concerned that they might get blown up... by a player who may or may not be there?
TZeer BURN EDEN Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2007.05.02 10:20:00 - [399] Edited by: TZeer on 02/05/2007 10:16:32 Quote: The point is that someone who is invulnerable and is not even at his computer is causing the loss in profits. We shouldnt be forced to play against someone who isnt there. Lets say CCP fix the afk cloaker, and give out a module that decloaks any cloaker withing a certain range, like a smartbomb or doomsday kinda antilcloker thingy. Would that be ok?
ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.02 10:32:00 - [400] Originally by: TZeer Edited by: TZeer on 02/05/2007 10:16:32 Quote: The point is that someone who is invulnerable and is not even at his computer is causing the loss in profits. We shouldnt be forced to play against someone who isnt there. Lets say CCP fix the afk cloaker, and give out a module that decloaks any cloaker withing a certain range, like a smartbomb or doomsday kinda antilcloker thingy. Would that be ok? Of course, but another problem is that how would such a fix be implemented? Anything too simple, such as a logoff timer can be fooled by macro programs, then we will be back here calling them macro cloakers instead of afk cloakers

Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.05.02 11:20:00 - [401] Originally by: TZeer How can you then claim to "know" how to fix the problem when youd dont even bother to get the right facts? That i didnt bother to check the figures for what a recon might look like after a healthy dose is irrelevent since: 1) The lock range was low enough such that the target would not be able to retaliate. 2) Quote: We aint talking about the damps... remember? I mean, you know how you guys fight, would you engage you guys in a recon? Not to mention the irony that the current BE Raven fits a cloak ;) ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
2ippy Black Lotus Heavy Industries Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.02 11:50:00 - [402] cov ops should not be detectable, unless you afk flying. Cloaks on ships with the prototype and improved cloaking should be probable.
TZeer BURN EDEN Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2007.05.02 12:56:00 - [403] Quote: Of course, but another problem is that how would such a fix be implemented? Anything too simple, such as a logoff timer can be fooled by macro programs, then we will be back here calling them macro cloakers instead of afk cloakers Here is a wild idea. You ever registered on a forum where you have to type a code? And that code is shown in a freaky way in a picture. Reason for that is to prevent bots to autoregister with forums and spam all kinds of rabble rabble on them. I dont think any macroprogram would be able to bypass that sort of mechanism. Make it only active if a claok is fitted Have a random timer on it, and it only pops up if you are cloaked. Quote: I mean, you know how you guys fight, would you engage you guys in a recon? Would depend on the ship, how local looked like and location. Anyway, as you see, its not that hard to catch a cloaker. Trap him, make him belive he has the advantage. No need for blobs. A few people with good coordination and most of them dies in the end. But then again you stumble upon pilots who seldom do any mistakes. I have no problem if they get away if they dont do mistakes. Quote: Not to mention the irony that the current BE Raven fits a cloak ;) Well, with the new probes and the current system your SS is only safe for 20-25 sec before the hostiles might get a spot on you. A BS use about 16-17 sec to get out of warp, turn 180 degree and get up to speed. Add fighters, warp bubbles, gate camps, dictors, intys going 10-12km/sec and huge blobs and cloak is the only thing that make you somewhat safe. When we engage we often do it outnumbered, if we put in your suggestion in probing down cloakers a great deal of gameplay goes away. You will also indirectly nerf any small group trying to get some 0.0 action. Any large group could only blob up, spam scan probes and gank anyone comming.
EMTsNightmare Gekidoku Koroshiya Buntai	Posted - 2007.05.02 13:32:00 - [404] there can not be a way to randomly uncloak a ship without getting into range of it. I mean come on! the thing was designed to sit near a hostile fleet or POS and give intel on it. How useless would the ******* thing be if someone could just randomly drop a probe in some ass end of the system and have u magically uncloak while you were setting up a warp in point, scouting a POS or giving intel on a hostile fleet. Your mind isn't on the cloak actually being on all the time (that's what overview distance is for) and if you're at a POS it'll insta pop you, and it won't take much longer for a fleet to kill you. I'm alright with something that tells you there's a cloaked ship in system, cause hell u should kinda know that already, or tells you there's one on the same grid as you. but anything that uncloaks a cloaked ship short of an object getting within 2000m is just not cool cause it means insta death for your cloaked ship while it's doing what it's supposed to. If you invent some mod to hunt down a AFK cloaked dude it would need to give a 15 minute timer and a cancel button, or be able to be destroyed by the cloaker in some way so that if he is actually at his keyboard (short of a bio break or smoke) he can avoid being decloaked, because being decloaked = DEATH for a cloaker. and you CAN NOT penalize a cloaker who's actually playing the GAME!
Johnny ReeRee The ReeRee Brigade	Posted - 2007.05.02 14:31:00 - [405] Edited by: Johnny ReeRee on 02/05/2007 14:27:34 Originally by: TZeer Dont even go there... Cloak dont make you invulnerable. It makes you safe. But at the same time you cant do anything. The moment you decloak and engage someone both paries are on the same level. Not unless the one decloaking is a complete idiot. Nerf the invulnerability module. It's time.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.05.02 16:27:00 - [406] Originally by: ghosttr Originally by: Blue Pixie Originally by: ghosttr That attitude right there is just the one that has kept thins thing going as long as it has. They require active effort to try and counter them, and they cannot be countered, and can have a substantial financial impact on the players in system, even if not active. You know, I keep hearing that. Goumindong in particular has gone to great lengths in speculating about "operational cost" and how much revenue could be made by X number of pilots mining Y hours in Empire. But you know what I haven't heard yet? How much revenue could be made by X number of pilots mining (or ratting for that matter) Y hours in 0.0 space? Until you're willing to be a little more forthcoming with that side of the equation, don't expect claims of "substantial financial impact" to be taken too seriously. If i have to put up 5 ships to defend my system from said cloaker. Then the loss is the potential profits that those 5 guys can make if they were spending the same amount of time earning isk. if you have at least 4 cloakers in your system you totally messed up and now have to learn to deal with it its not the cloaks fault you let them in the system ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Grey Area Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.02 17:46:00 - [407] Originally by: Goumindong You're insane. You can't warp safes every 2-5 minutes? Are you in a freaking titan? Double clicking in space is hard? You keep saying its so hard, but you have never, ever, once outlined WHY its to hard. And as if to prove my point, you did it again...ONLY addressed the issue of the scan probes, and totally IGNORED the issue of the on-grid detection system. Your argument taken as a whole is the death of cloaks, and you know it, so you're arguing half of it at a time to try and make it more palatable. AND you're ignoring statements I've given before - a cloaked explorer CANNOT warp every two minutes, because a SCAN takes two minutes, and you cannot warp while scanning. Quote: No, but they still have power...<snip> in warp ins Which requires other ships Quote: in tactical gang manuvering Which requires other ships Quote: in e-war Which you overstate - a covops can't run the ewar modules long enough for it's pathetic two turrets to finsih off a target Quote: in suprise You're only surprised by OTHER ships using the cloaker as a warp in point...the only surprise for a cloaker is how quick they die of they decloak Quote: is scanning Which again, REALLY needs other ships to take any advantage of the information And lastly, if your detection system only removed SOME of the above, then it MIGHT have a snowball in hell's chance of getting some balance - but it removes ALL of them. Again, you know this, because you have REPEATEDLY ignored my requests to posit a method of operation that would allow a cloaked pilot to take advantage of his cloak once your new system was in place. You put yourself forward as being one of the great debaters of the forums, but you can't even achieve the simplest requirement of "Debate 101"...putting forward the opposition's case. --- I don't mind you disagreeing with me. Just don't say I don't have the SKILLS to comment.
Guillame Herschel Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.05.02 19:39:00 - [408] Originally by: Vyyrus Why not make the cloaking detection something like it scans for certain particles processed by the cloaking device. Then once the particles are found player is able to warp to them then light off smart bombs or something to make player appear. If we're going to do this, let's also get a different type of cargo expander that forces cargo pirates to use a new special type of cargo scanner on players that fit the new special cargo expanders. It makes no sense for cloaks to have a counter like that. The cloaking ship is already nerfed into non-combat oblivion. It doesn't need a counter. It's no threat while cloaked. -- Guile can always trump hardware --
SiJira	Posted - 2007.05.02 22:13:00 - [409] Originally by: Guillame Herschel Originally by: Vyyrus Why not make the cloaking detection something like it scans for certain particles processed by the cloaking device. Then once the particles are found player is able to warp to them then light off smart bombs or something to make player appear. If we're going to do this, let's also get a different type of cargo expander that forces cargo pirates to use a new special type of cargo scanner on players that fit the new special cargo expanders. It makes no sense for cloaks to have a counter like that. The cloaking ship is already nerfed into non-combat oblivion. It doesn't need a counter. It's no threat while cloaked. QFT ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.02 22:28:00 - [410] Originally by: SiJira Originally by: ghosttr Originally by: Blue Pixie Originally by: ghosttr That attitude right there is just the one that has kept thins thing going as long as it has. They require active effort to try and counter them, and they cannot be countered, and can have a substantial financial impact on the players in system, even if not active. You know, I keep hearing that. Goumindong in particular has gone to great lengths in speculating about "operational cost" and how much revenue could be made by X number of pilots mining Y hours in Empire. But you know what I haven't heard yet? How much revenue could be made by X number of pilots mining (or ratting for that matter) Y hours in 0.0 space? Until you're willing to be a little more forthcoming with that side of the equation, don't expect claims of "substantial financial impact" to be taken too seriously. If i have to put up 5 ships to defend my system from said cloaker. Then the loss is the potential profits that those 5 guys can make if they were spending the same amount of time earning isk. if you have at least 4 cloakers in your system you totally messed up and now have to learn to deal with it its not the cloaks fault you let them in the system Ok, i will put a t1 cloak on my alts velator, and sneak into your system while you arent on. Then I will invite my mates to put thier cloaked velators into your system as well. I will log them on and cloak them every day after dt, and leave them there all day. Nothing less than a 23/7 gate camp can keep them out. And you have no means of removing them once they are in system, then you are the one who is losing potential profit because even though said alts wont be active you have no idea of what they are in. So you must have a force of people to defend from someone whos not there, those people are not making money for you, because they have to defend your guys from ym dangerous cloaked veltaor

Blue Pixie	Posted - 2007.05.02 23:03:00 - [411] Originally by: ghosttr Ok, i will put a t1 cloak on my alts velator, and sneak into your system while you arent on. Then I will invite my mates to put thier cloaked velators into your system as well. I will log them on and cloak them every day after dt, and leave them there all day. Nothing less than a 23/7 gate camp can keep them out. And you have no means of removing them once they are in system, then you are the one who is losing potential profit because even though said alts wont be active you have no idea of what they are in. So you must have a force of people to defend from someone whos not there, those people are not making money for you, because they have to defend your guys from ym dangerous cloaked veltaor If you and your mates want to throw away $15 USD a month on spare accounts... just to idle in my system and never play... knock yourselves out. Yeah, I might have to fly with an escort (something I'd do anyway). Oh noes. I'll still be making iskes. You won't. I win.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.05.03 01:29:00 - [412] Originally by: ghosttr if you have at least 4 cloakers in your system you totally messed up and now have to learn to deal with it its not the cloaks fault you let them in the system[/quote Ok, i will put a t1 cloak on my alts velator, and sneak into your system while you arent on. Then I will invite my mates to put thier cloaked velators into your system as well. I will log them on and cloak them every day after dt, and leave them there all day. Nothing less than a 23/7 gate camp can keep them out. And you have no means of removing them once they are in system, then you are the one who is losing potential profit because even though said alts wont be active you have no idea of what they are in. So you must have a force of people to defend from someone whos not there, those people are not making money for you, because they have to defend your guys from ym dangerous cloaked veltaor oh boy listen to yourself i dont know if its the type of guys that are anti cloak or if there is some multi alt posting going on in this thread but ... if i dont know what ship you are cloaked in it might be because i have never been attacked by you then i would suspect you might not even cloak hence your whole hypothetical story is flawed from the beginning because i have nothing to fear wich i have not even encountered k thx you lose ! ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.05.03 03:31:00 - [413] Originally by: Grey Area And as if to prove my point, you did it again...ONLY addressed the issue of the scan probes, and totally IGNORED the issue of the on-grid detection system. Your argument taken as a whole is the death of cloaks, and you know it, so you're arguing half of it at a time to try and make it more palatable. AND you're ignoring statements I've given before - a cloaked explorer CANNOT warp every two minutes, because a SCAN takes two minutes, and you cannot warp while scanning. I did not ignore it, an on grid detection system never comes into play if they arent on grid. An on grid detection system only makes the role of the cov-ops adversarial, it does not remove it as you claim. And as for exploartion, again for the 10th freaking time, it is good that to add risk into exploration, you should not be given a free ride to go about and explore Quote: Which you overstate - a covops can't run the ewar modules long enough for it's pathetic two turrets to finsih off a target That the Falcons dps sucks[and oh lord does it suck], does not mean that its DPS sucks. We have gone over this i dont know how many times, each Recon aside from the Falcon/rook has enough DPS to break the tank of any cruiser or battlecriuiser, and most, if not all, ratters[due to rat specific tanks]. Also, dont use multispec, use racials. They use a lot less cap and have a lot better range. Quote: Which requires other ships So do gang mods, that doesnt mean that if they made you invincibile while enabling your friends to project power farther, faster, and more efficiently they wouldnt be overpowered. Quote: And lastly, if your detection system only removed SOME of the above, then it MIGHT have a snowball in hell's chance of getting some balance - but it removes ALL of them. Again, you know this, because you have REPEATEDLY ignored my requests to posit a method of operation that would allow a cloaked pilot to take advantage of his cloak once your new system was in place. You put yourself forward as being one of the great debaters of the forums, but you can't even achieve the simplest requirement of "Debate 101"...putting forward the opposition's case. Cov-ops warps to planet, 360 scan, locates targets, checks ship types/bubbles/probes, cov-ops warps to targets loc at range/safe depending on the types of ships/bubbles/probes etc. Cov-ops scouts area, cov-ops takes more pains to be stealthy if destroyers are present, coming in from an area where the nebula wont provide a backround for his ship to be seen against. Cov ops notes locations of destroyers/cloaked ships and moves to facilitate a warp in/passes information back. If destroyer seems to have seen cov-ops, cov ops alligns to safe/planet whatever and waits for any action. If the destroyer launches his EMP and it seems close to hitting you, then you warp. Otherwise you continue your operation. This occurs in exactly the same manner it does now, except the cov-ops has to make precautions and be aware of his surroundings. Asking how a cloaker uses their cloak to their advantage after such a change is like asking how a gank-a-geddon uses their range advantage after the stacking nerf. The answer is that it uses the advantage in the same manner, the advantage is simply reduced. Something else you should note. It is not my job to put forward your case. When someone does that you should be assuming they are strawmanning you[As you have done so many times]. If an opponents case is strong, restating truthfully it gives him an advantage, If an opponents case is weak, then there isnt a reason to strawman it. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
SiJira	Posted - 2007.05.03 05:38:00 - [414] Originally by: Goumindong If an opponents case is weak, then there isnt a reason to strawman it. k ignore my posts some more cause cloaks aint getting nerfed again you assume you are 100% right, our case isnt weak for all the reasons that have already been mentioned in this thread btw using a strawman argument regardless if an opponents case is "strong" or "weak" makes your own argument weak and is only used when you cant refute or deny the facts that make your opponents case undeniable ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
eLLioTT wave Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.05.03 07:17:00 - [415] As a covops/recon pilot (~80% of my flying time is in a recon :P) I thought i'd put in my 2ISK on this thread: I don't like the current situation, I can take my system to enemy ratting systems, goto bed, wake up the next day and if anyone is around go and gank them, cloak before their support arrives. Then goto work, come back a few hours later... rinse and repeat. This is reward for 0 risk which I am against (but it's really fun atm :P ) I think it needs fixing. First, give cloaks a timer/cool down period / cap use. Give a bonus to recons/covops. Something like this, when i first started playing I had a weird idea that cloaks would use cap and when it ran out you'd uncloak and be vulnerable again. Second, give stealth bombers a module which acts like a sonar and makes cloaked ships within 50km visible but not on overview. Think about it, some ships are really small and really hard to see with your eyes. This would give pilots something to do - USE THEIR EYES. If someone does spot the cloaker they can head towards them and if they hit 2km they uncloak fully like normal and appear on overview. Third, make them probable by normal probes. Best case scenario the probe gets within 50km of them (but never within 10km) that way you need to do the following to find a cloaker: 1. Probe them 2. Get a stealth bomber within 50km to make them visible in space (but not on overview) 3. Look with your eyes to spot them 4. Once found visually approach and decloak 5. Target and kill This introduces risk for cloaked pilot! (also it gives a job to stealth bombers) Problem solved.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.05.03 07:22:00 - [416] sounds more like you had your fun with the module and are now bored with it so you wont let anyone else have fun that is just getting into it so you will stick with the guys that cant defend against it because you come up to so many of said newbs (theres so many people in this thread that outlined ways of getting cloakers with the current system) so all the guys that have just finished training for it or are now in the middle - and would not want to train for it at all if all these proposed foolish ideas came into play - get hit in the head with no warning ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.03 07:30:00 - [417] Edited by: ghosttr on 03/05/2007 07:29:29 Originally by: SiJira sounds more like you had your fun with the module and are now bored with it so you wont let anyone else have fun that is just getting into it so you will stick with the guys that cant defend against it because you come up to so many of said newbs (theres so many people in this thread that outlined ways of getting cloakers with the current system) so all the guys that have just finished training for it or are now in the middle - and would not want to train for it at all if all these proposed foolish ideas came into play - get hit in the head with no warning STFU, you wont even listen to reason ( and weve been trying to reason with you), you have found a flaw in the game mechanics, and have abused it, you encourage others to abuse it. Either get some common sense or stop playing, I dont care which of the two.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.05.03 07:44:00 - [418] Originally by: ghosttr Edited by: ghosttr on 03/05/2007 07:29:29 Originally by: SiJira sounds more like you had your fun with the module and are now bored with it so you wont let anyone else have fun that is just getting into it so you will stick with the guys that cant defend against it because you come up to so many of said newbs (theres so many people in this thread that outlined ways of getting cloakers with the current system) so all the guys that have just finished training for it or are now in the middle - and would not want to train for it at all if all these proposed foolish ideas came into play - get hit in the head with no warning STFU, you wont even listen to reason teapot calling the kettle black ? cloakers arent as dangerous as you guys make them out to be, actually i wouldnt be surprised if that guy that just posted doesnt even fly cloaks Quote: ( and weve been trying to reason with you), you have found a flaw in the game mechanics, and have abused it, you encourage others to abuse it. i dont encourage anything except smart decisions - and not changing cloak would be one of those Quote: Either get some common sense or stop playing, I dont care which of the two. either get some friends or go to high sec ! i dont care wich of the two ! ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.03 07:54:00 - [419] Originally by: SiJira Originally by: ghosttr Edited by: ghosttr on 03/05/2007 07:29:29 Originally by: SiJira sounds more like you had your fun with the module and are now bored with it so you wont let anyone else have fun that is just getting into it so you will stick with the guys that cant defend against it because you come up to so many of said newbs (theres so many people in this thread that outlined ways of getting cloakers with the current system) so all the guys that have just finished training for it or are now in the middle - and would not want to train for it at all if all these proposed foolish ideas came into play - get hit in the head with no warning STFU, you wont even listen to reason teapot calling the kettle black ? cloakers arent as dangerous as you guys make them out to be, actually i wouldnt be surprised if that guy that just posted doesnt even fly cloaks Quote: ( and weve been trying to reason with you), you have found a flaw in the game mechanics, and have abused it, you encourage others to abuse it. i dont encourage anything except smart decisions - and not changing cloak would be one of those Quote: Either get some common sense or stop playing, I dont care which of the two. either get some friends or go to high sec ! i dont care wich of the two ! Can I have your stuff?
SiJira	Posted - 2007.05.03 07:55:00 - [420] Originally by: ghosttr Can I have your stuff? yes heres my sweaty underwear ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some



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