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ReePeR McAllem The Carebear Stare Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.27 15:59:00 - [31] Most useless item is: T2 Armour plates. Same armour as a Named but way more PG and CPU 1600mm reinforced rolled tungsten plates I PG: 500 CPU:28 Armour bonus 4200hp 1600mm reinforced steel plates II PG: 575 CPU: 33 Armour bonus 4200hp For the small price difference, I see no point of the T2 plates. Boost the Hp or Get rid of em.
Kazuo Ishiguro	Posted - 2007.04.27 16:04:00 - [32] Shield Flux coils - close relatives of capacitor flux coils Shield Flux Coil II : 30% reduction in shield recharge time, 15% shield HP penalty. Result: 0.85/0.7 = 21.4% higher peak recharge rate, but you lose a big chunk of your shields. By contrast: Shield Recharger II: 15% bonus to shield recharge time = 1/0.85 = 17.6% higher peak recharge rate, and you still have 100% of the hp you started with. A Power Diagnostic System II does even better by comparison: 8.5% reduction in recharge time, 5% bonus to HP: 1.05/0.915 = 14.8% bonus to peak shield recharge, and 5% more HP than you had before. It also gives you the same bonuses to cap recharge, which equate to double (or more) the equivalent shield bonuses when converting cap to shield using a shield booster. So, arguably, up to 44% more shield replenished, assuming that peak cap recharge = shield booster consumption. It even gives you 5% more powergrid, and all this for the lowest fitting requirements of the three: Shield Flux coil II: low slot, 22tf, 0mw Shield Recharger II: mid slot, 50tf, 1mw Power diagnostic System II: low slot, 20tf, 0mw ------ Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant tanking
Apsa1ar Ex Coelis	Posted - 2007.04.27 17:35:00 - [33] Edited by: Apsa1ar on 27/04/2007 17:31:32 The true most useless module in Eve - multispec ECCM - like ECCM - Omni I There is never a reason to use a multi-spec ECCM over the racial ECCM.
VJ Maverick Caldari Maverick Specialized Services	Posted - 2007.04.27 19:31:00 - [34] Originally by: Apsa1ar Edited by: Apsa1ar on 27/04/2007 17:31:32 The true most useless module in Eve - multispec ECCM - like ECCM - Omni I There is never a reason to use a multi-spec ECCM over the racial ECCM. I think we've got a winner. 1B ISK to anyone who can come up with a good and "reasonable" purpose of multi-spec ECCM over a racial ECCM.
ReePeR McAllem The Carebear Stare Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.27 19:33:00 - [35] Originally by: VJ Maverick Originally by: Apsa1ar Edited by: Apsa1ar on 27/04/2007 17:31:32 The true most useless module in Eve - multispec ECCM - like ECCM - Omni I There is never a reason to use a multi-spec ECCM over the racial ECCM. I think we've got a winner. 1B ISK to anyone who can come up with a good and "reasonable" purpose of multi-spec ECCM over a racial ECCM. Could it be... maybe... people are too lazy to fit there ship to what they are fighting. If people cruise around they may not know what ship they will find hence a Multi-spec will work better than a racial against a non racial target... You win a medal
VJ Maverick Caldari Maverick Specialized Services	Posted - 2007.04.27 19:35:00 - [36] Edited by: VJ Maverick on 27/04/2007 19:33:38 Originally by: ReePeR McAllem Originally by: VJ Maverick Originally by: Apsa1ar Edited by: Apsa1ar on 27/04/2007 17:31:32 The true most useless module in Eve - multispec ECCM - like ECCM - Omni I There is never a reason to use a multi-spec ECCM over the racial ECCM. I think we've got a winner. 1B ISK to anyone who can come up with a good and "reasonable" purpose of multi-spec ECCM over a racial ECCM. Could it be... maybe... people are too lazy to fit there ship to what they are fighting. If people cruise around they may not know what ship they will find hence a Multi-spec will work better than a racial against a non racial target... You win a medal You're confusing ECM with ECCM. The point of ECCM is to boost YOUR OWN sensor strength. Why would you ever use anything other than your own race's specific ECCM?? You win... nothing.
Sexorella hotz Beasts of Burden YouWhat	Posted - 2007.04.27 19:44:00 - [37] Originally by: Apsa1ar Edited by: Apsa1ar on 27/04/2007 17:31:32 The true most useless module in Eve - multispec ECCM - like ECCM - Omni I There is never a reason to use a multi-spec ECCM over the racial ECCM. If you're a VERY VERY poor alliance, and your enemy really really really likes to use ECM, so you want to make ECCM available to all the pilots but you have only enough iskies to pick one ECCM BPO but lots of minerals that you for whatever reason can't sell(note also that the rats in your area don't drop ECCM mods, or bounties...). Of course the members of your alliance fly all different races, so if you wish to fit them out with ECCM it would only be feasible to go multispec. See, entirely plausible. Next module? Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
VJ Maverick Caldari Maverick Specialized Services	Posted - 2007.04.27 19:48:00 - [38] Originally by: Sexorella hotz Originally by: Apsa1ar Edited by: Apsa1ar on 27/04/2007 17:31:32 The true most useless module in Eve - multispec ECCM - like ECCM - Omni I There is never a reason to use a multi-spec ECCM over the racial ECCM. If you're a VERY VERY poor alliance, and your enemy really really really likes to use ECM, so you want to make ECCM available to all the pilots but you have only enough iskies to pick one ECCM BPO but lots of minerals that you for whatever reason can't sell(note also that the rats in your area don't drop ECCM mods, or bounties...). Of course the members of your alliance fly all different races, so if you wish to fit them out with ECCM it would only be feasible to go multispec. See, entirely plausible. Next module? I knew that this would be the only reason - "absolute destitution." However, in this case, "absolute destitution" is a fallback position - and it doesn't even pass the "laugh test." Better than the guy above though. I'll send you 100K for the effort :)
Aterna Talon's Grasp	Posted - 2007.04.27 20:09:00 - [39] If an alliance is in such dire straits that they can't afford 4 bpos that only cost a few hundred K each....that alliance is boned. How are they supposed to pay the bill on the alliance, if they can't afford 4 module bpos? Dual rails: D150's are about the only railgun you can fit on a thorax. 200mm rails take up too much grid unless you have ultra skills, and even then the tank will suffer for it. Perhaps at AWU 5 you can fit an MAR II on a rax with a full rack of 200mm rails. Downgrading to 150's is an option, but what will you use the extra grid for? a 1600mm plate? on a ratting setup it isn't necessary if you tank well, and the ship doesn't have the cap to sustain 2 reps or the cargo to sustain both guns and a cap booster. - - - WTB new sig, evemail me please.
Paradoxex Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.04.27 20:10:00 - [40] For close range fights, Rage HAMs present a stark increase in dps over their other missile counterparts on drakes. With decent missile skills, they hit out beyond 12k, which while constricting, doesn't make it much different from close-range BSes. A t2 HAM drake does 25% more dps than a comparatively skilled t2 HM drake, for a fraction of the actual cost. Yes, you have to get in close. Yes, you might have to maneuver your ship around....but if you're in a close range gang, I fail to see what's so horrendous about HAMs. I should say that I run drakes with totally passive amps, and while that doesn't make the resists as ridiculous as they could be, when you've got 16k sheild with 70% resists, you're still going to be fine if some BS decides to split you off from the pack. I'm ok with people railing on HAMs though, so long as the t2 variants of the modules stay ridiculously cheap.
ForeverKnight Caldari Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.27 20:56:00 - [41] Originally by: VJ Maverick Originally by: Apsa1ar Edited by: Apsa1ar on 27/04/2007 17:31:32 The true most useless module in Eve - multispec ECCM - like ECCM - Omni I There is never a reason to use a multi-spec ECCM over the racial ECCM. I think we've got a winner. 1B ISK to anyone who can come up with a good and "reasonable" purpose of multi-spec ECCM over a racial ECCM. You'd use an Omni-ECCM on a Jovian Battleship, seeing as the Jovian BS has all four sensor types. Can I have 1b ISK now ?
Kolwrath	Posted - 2007.04.27 21:12:00 - [42] My votes: 1.T2 Target Painters They have the same stats as the best named one, and use more cap and fitting requirements. 2.Cap flux coils 3.Shield flux coils 4. All cap batteries save large ones. (they can come in handy now and then) 5. Smartbombs. Thier range is just way to small to be helpfull I find. 6. Webifier Drones. Why spend 125m3 to web a guy to 80% instead of loading a wave of heavies? (they are way too big) 7. resistance platings Just some ideas.
ForeverKnight Caldari Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.27 21:18:00 - [43] Edited by: ForeverKnight on 27/04/2007 21:15:27 1.T2 Target Painters They have the same stats as the best named one, and use more cap and fitting requirements. -True of most EW, T2 are usually easier to find than best named, also EW ships usually have loads of CPU making fitting a non-issue. 2.Cap flux coils -no argument 3.Shield flux coils -useful for Pottsey's shield recharge rate record setting on Gallente ships 4. All cap batteries save large ones. (they can come in handy now and then) -no argument 5. Smartbombs. Thier range is just way to small to be helpfull I find. -Large Smartbombs are useful on some battleships, especially if you're going to go against drone-ships. Also Faction and Officer smartbombs are required fitting for some capital and supercapital ships. 6. Webifier Drones. Why spend 125m3 to web a guy to 80% instead of loading a wave of heavies? (they are way too big) -You've never flown a Megathron have you? 7. resistance platings -every now and then you have one lowslot, and no CPU whatsoever. Just some ideas.
Apsa1ar Ex Coelis	Posted - 2007.04.27 21:23:00 - [44] Am I the only one that uses a small cap battery on my CovOps? MWD + low starting capacity = problems with long warps.
VJ Maverick Caldari Maverick Specialized Services	Posted - 2007.04.27 21:37:00 - [45] Originally by: ForeverKnight Originally by: VJ Maverick Originally by: Apsa1ar Edited by: Apsa1ar on 27/04/2007 17:31:32 The true most useless module in Eve - multispec ECCM - like ECCM - Omni I There is never a reason to use a multi-spec ECCM over the racial ECCM. I think we've got a winner. 1B ISK to anyone who can come up with a good and "reasonable" purpose of multi-spec ECCM over a racial ECCM. You'd use an Omni-ECCM on a Jovian Battleship, seeing as the Jovian BS has all four sensor types. Can I have 1b ISK now ? No, you cannot. When it comes to jamming, your highest sensor strength is used for the purposes of jamming success. Therefore, it would still make more sense to use a racial ECCM on a ship with all 4 sensors to boost one higher than the others because only that one will ultimately matter. Also, seeing as how I've never seen a player-flown Jove battleship, your example is outside the realm of "reasonableness".
Karash Amerius Amarr O.E.C Legionnaire Services Ltd.	Posted - 2007.04.27 21:47:00 - [46] Whoever said Elec Regen plating is useless is smoking *****. Try putting a few of these bad boys on your capital ship and see what your armor is. Auto-targeter is the most USELESS ship module in the game, without a doubt. Merc Blog
ForeverKnight Caldari Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.27 21:50:00 - [47] Edited by: ForeverKnight on 27/04/2007 21:48:51 There are a couple of players with Jovian Battleships in their hangar, award or somesuch. And no, with a Jovian Battleship you'd have to do a successful jam on every sensor type to jam the ship for a cycle, which means 4 seperate checks on each sensor type. an omni ECCM I gives +80% to all sensor types, whereas a racial gives +80% to just one, making Omni much better for a Jovian Battleship. On top of that since Omni ECCM gives exactly the same boost to sensor strength as a racial, uses the same fitting, and only marginally more capacitor (on a decent sized ship), an alliance being lazy and stocking some Cheap Tech 2 omni ECCM instead of 4 kinds of regular ECCM isn't that far-fetched.
Thanos Mortis Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.04.27 21:57:00 - [48] cap flux are pretty useless, they should turn that module into an antivampire mod making a certain recharge or amount un-nossable or divert something completely different into cap like shields/armor or powergrid maybe.
Shinjuro ToXiC. Coalition of Carebear Killers	Posted - 2007.04.27 22:06:00 - [49] Originally by: Got b00ns 1.Energized regenerative membrane/Regenerative platings 2.Logistic ships in general 3.Tracking disruptors (well they are only less usefull compared to other ewar) You must be kidding.. 1. More useful then it's non-energized counterpart, See the post about the armor hp rigs .. these things can be used well. 2. What is useless about being able to send someone more cap then you actually have? These things are win @ complex support. 3. OMGLOL @ this one.. Tracking Disruptors and useless in the same sentence.. Someone tell me it ain't so. You can render any turret bs useless with just a couple of these. Come to think of it, you can render any class of turret based ship useless with a few of these.
Ashrius Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.04.27 22:07:00 - [50] Does anyone use Passive Targeters?
dalman Finite Horizon	Posted - 2007.04.27 22:17:00 - [51] Originally by: Karash Amerius Whoever said Energized Regen Membrane II is useless is smoking processed coco. Try putting a few of these bad boys on your capital ship and see what your armor is. Why don't you do it yourself, and when you get killed we can all point and laugh at the mail? You either 1. need to do math or 2. are one of the unlucky T2 BPO owners and flat out lying. There is always a better module to fit. Ship and purpose matter not. Always. (+HP rigs on the other hand are not useless, but that's another story) Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me
VJ Maverick Caldari Maverick Specialized Services	Posted - 2007.04.27 22:24:00 - [52] Originally by: ForeverKnight Edited by: ForeverKnight on 27/04/2007 21:48:51 And no, with a Jovian Battleship you'd have to do a successful jam on every sensor type to jam the ship for a cycle, which means 4 seperate checks on each sensor type. You just said exactly what I did but differently. Since you have to pass 4 separate checks to jam, a failure on any single one will produce a failed jam. Thus, in the end, it is the highest sensor strength that ultimately matters. But I will concede to you that you that if you fly a Jove BS, you can make all of your sensor strengths equally high for the sake of uniformity. However, even though there might be a "couple" of Jove ships in hangars around the universe, no one actually brings them into battle, so this example is purely theoretical and, like I said earlier, NOT reasonable. Thus the Omni ECCM probably ranks at the very top of a list of useless modules.
ForeverKnight Caldari Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.27 22:26:00 - [53] what you fail to realize is that while a t2 racial jammer boosts sensor strength by 96 on one type, an omni II boosts them ALL by 96 in exchange for using a bit more cap.
VJ Maverick Caldari Maverick Specialized Services	Posted - 2007.04.27 22:37:00 - [54] Originally by: ForeverKnight what you fail to realize is that while a t2 racial jammer boosts sensor strength by 96 on one type, an omni II boosts them ALL by 96 in exchange for using a bit more cap. What you fail to realize is for all real-world practical purposes, 96/0/0/0 is no worse than 96/96/96/96 since only one failure will produce a failed jam. Therefore it doesn't matter if you can jam the lower three sensors, you will always get stuck on that one 96. And since most ships only have one sensor strength to begin with, there is no point in using more cap to boost something that isn't there. The Jove ships, just like the very very poor alliance that can only afford one BPO, are the only exceptions. And these exceptions are so extreme, as to render them unreasonable. I understand your argument, and it is a valid one - but purely in a theoretical sense. A lot of modules make "theoretical sense" but real gameplay reveals them to be useless. Such is the case with the Omni. ECCM
Stakhanov Shih Yang Tong	Posted - 2007.04.27 22:54:00 - [55] Lots of useless rigs... -hybrid discharge elutriation , turret cap (cap rigs are better and have no drawback) -liquid cooled electronics , electronics upgrade CPU (-10% to sensor booster is gonna pwn) -signal focusing kit , scanner module time (having a randomized ship scanner result 1 second earlier must win battles , sure) -warp core optimizer , warp cap (because those 100+ AU systems require a rig slot , really)
Max Hardcase Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.04.27 23:11:00 - [56] Edited by: Max Hardcase on 27/04/2007 23:07:13 Originally by: Stakhanov Lots of useless rigs... -hybrid discharge elutriation , turret cap (cap rigs are better and have no drawback) -liquid cooled electronics , electronics upgrade CPU (-10% to sensor booster is gonna pwn) -signal focusing kit , scanner module time (having a randomized ship scanner result 1 second earlier must win battles , sure) -warp core optimizer , warp cap (because those 100+ AU systems require a rig slot , really You've never flown a stealth bomber, have you ? I'm soo tempted to fit one you wouldnt believe it. I also believe that the warpcap use and warp speed rigs should have no drawbacks, very little appeal to them at any rate ( and certainly not as powerfull as the cap and grid rigs). With regards to the T2 plates, instead of offering more HP they should offer lower mass compared to the lightest plate.
Arushia Nova Labs Empire Research	Posted - 2007.04.28 01:14:00 - [57] Originally by: Ashrius Does anyone use Passive Targeters? Fly a hauler through Jita and find out. Be sure to load up on Megacyte and T2 BPOs first. Nova Labs and Empire Research
ForeverKnight Caldari Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.28 01:16:00 - [58] You'd still use an Omni ECCM on a Jovian Battleship on the OFF Chance that some jerk will actually be able to jam your first sensor type.
Kamen SRBI Circle 0f Two	Posted - 2007.04.28 01:42:00 - [59] I knew there was an non-arguably useless module and I couldn't remember, but yeah - it was the Omni ECCM! I dunno what u guys are talking about. The ECCM Omni boosts sensor strenght by PERCENT, not by a fixed amount. So if my hsip has zero (read ZERO) magnetometric, ladar and radar strength, my resulting strength of those sensors will be zero (read ZERO). "ECCM omni exists for the Jovian ship" argument is valid, assuming that you have to "blind" all sensors of a Jovian, and that seems to be a pretty reasonable assumption to me, because having multiple sensor types would be a disadvantage, as you would have multiple chances to "blind" one of those sensors. However, if CCP thought about Jovian ships when they made Omni ECCM, pretty freckin unlikely! .. Well unless game mechanics were different when they "invented" them. The designer who came up with the idea, had to have had a lot of "funny salad" to come up with the idea for this module...
Dahak2150 Chaos Monkeys	Posted - 2007.04.28 01:51:00 - [60] T2 plates. Same armor added, but more mass, and more fitting. Both species of flux coils. Yeah you can get uberfast recharge with shield flux, but you can get one-vollied by a BS when you've got 12 shield. ---------------- If you're on IE, pretend this is transparent while you get a browser that supports .png.

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