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LukaG
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Posted - 2007.04.27 08:52:00 -
[1]
Ok first golden rule of this post is DO NOT turn it into a flame fest.
Second golden rule is don't put a module on here just because you personaly don't use it, be OBJECTIVE! These modules should be ones where there intended purpouse is already done a lot better by something else completely.
Maybe just maybe, if the stars are aligned correctly and they have come out of their hybernation cycle one of the devs might stick their head in here and actually pay attention. So to kick us off my first few USELESS modules are:
1.) Large Capacitor batteries: ok so the little ones might concievably have some uses but these large ones are completely useless, there is simply no reason to fit one above a cap reacharger and in my entire time on these forums I have never ever seen or heard of someone fitting one of these to their ship.
2.) Dual Hybrid Turrets: again utterly useless, tracking is a bit better but the penalty to dmg and range is to severe to compensate. Remember that if you can engage targets further away you can get away with lower tracking anyway. Another example of a weapons system I haven't seen EVER mentioned as a viable alternative on these forums
3.) Defender Missiles: Seriously does anyone ever use these anymore? Their principle failure seems to be their complete inability to hit jack sh*t.
Thats it for now, there are others but ill keep adding later. Remember please keep your posts short and sweet and concise. Also this is a module post so please don't come in here waving your nerf stick and screaming about shield tanking or "my raven should be on this list" etc etc
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.04.27 09:03:00 -
[2]
1. Large cap batteries : they work better as cap rechargers on most cruisers.
Of course, people still prefer to use injectors instead, as long as NOS is still the IWin button.
2. If you want to talk useless weapon systems, look at Heavy Assault Launchers.
In comparison, "dual something" hybrids look yummy. Besides, there are advantages in fiting weapons below highest tier.
I suppose you have never seen battleships use medium guns, nor cruisers using small guns before ?
They usually allow for better tank fitings.
Now, what if you DON'T fit under-classed/under-sized guns, but instead go with the lowest your ship class has any bonuses for ?
There's your use right there. Limited use, granted, but a use nevertheless.
3. Agreed. They could just as well remove them from the game, as they are now. Or they could fix them instead :)
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MySkills | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
dalman
Finite Horizon
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Posted - 2007.04.27 09:09:00 -
[3]
Large cap batteries are useful, not on battleships though ;)
the lowend "dual rail" turrets are indeed very poor imo, that doesn't make them useless.
Most useless mod is: regenerative platings.
Defender missiles and the smaller sizes of smartbombs are good contenders though...
Bulkheads aren't all that hot either.
Cap flux coils certainly also doesn't have much use, but like the dual rails there are situations where they can be used.
Am I forced to have any regret?
I've become the lie, beautiful and free
In my righteous own mind
I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me |
LukaG
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Posted - 2007.04.27 09:10:00 -
[4]
Have no experiance with heavy assault launchers but ill take your word for it. Don't agree with you about the duel hybrids, obviously I have seen ships use a smaller weapon system then that which they were designed for but duel hybrids are just useless. For instance if you have a BS and want to fit guns and have PG to spare you would go for 350's instead of 425's, absolutly no reason to fit Dual's over 350's.
For the sake of the list can you give me a bit more detail about the heavy assault launchers?
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Odinegras
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Posted - 2007.04.27 09:12:00 -
[5]
My domi setup uses a large cap battery... where else am i supposed to put all that cap im nosing!
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LukaG
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Posted - 2007.04.27 09:12:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Odinegras
My domi setup uses a large cap battery... where else am i supposed to put all that cap im nosing!
please tell me you are kidding me.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.04.27 09:23:00 -
[7]
Autotargeters
Can we have a thread with the 'almost worthless' modules too? (In a 'they do something, buy why would anyone ever fit one') sense.
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.04.27 09:31:00 -
[8]
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I + Heavy Assault Missile -vs- Heavy Missile Launcher I and Heavy Missiles
Heavy assaults : 45tf, 120 MW ; 8 sec RoF, damage 100 (base 12.5 DPS); base range 6.75 km (15+ km maxskills)
Standard heavy : 50tf, 100 MW ; 15 sec RoF, damage 150 (base 10.0 DPS); base range 37.5 km (84+ km maxskills)
Both have an explosion radius of 125m, but heavy assaults DO NOT get reduced explosion radius from skills nor rigs (just like rockets and torpedos).
While this technically has no effect on cruiser-sized and other above 125m sig targets, it matters a lot for small targets.
Rage assault versions have 120 damage (15 base DPS), but an explosion radius of 200m, and a mere 6km base range.
The problems with them is that they use up more grid as heavies, and Caldari ships at least (the most heavy users) are pretty grid-sensitive as it is already.
Combine that to the fact they (Caldari ships) are also the slowest ships around, so getting (and staying) in range is even harder, and you get one of the least useful weapon systems around.
Other than the fact they're dirt cheap (guess why), there's no good reason (normally) to use them over heavies.
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MySkills | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Vasiliyan
Black Straw Research
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Posted - 2007.04.27 11:36:00 -
[9]
Capacitor batteries were more useful before someone increased the cap size of all ships without increasing the size of the batteries. They used to give you better cap regen than putting a cap recharger in that slot, but now there are cheap cap recharger II's there is no reason to waste slot and grid on a battery.
Dual rails often come out worse than fitting a single rail of the same name because their tracking sucks - a 150mm railgun I does about 80% of the raw DPS of a dual 150mm railgun I, at the same range, but with much better tracking and signature resolution. This gets slightly better if you have a bonus to medium hybrid turrets, but you still can't hit anything.
Nobody uses small smartbombs because of the pathetic range. They are only useful at Large and above sizes.
Some of the faction/T2 shield transferers are actually worse than named T1 versions. I think the same goes for some other T2 items (target painters).
Then there's rigs. There are certain types which are of very limited or questionable usefulness, that might be OK if they were cheap but use the same components as the very valuable rigs, so are never worth the money.
E.g. adding a powergrid rig so you can fit a full rack of large guns is always better than fitting a weapon rig then having to fit smaller guns, and costs about the same.
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Xeios
Caldari
SniggWaffe
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.04.27 11:41:00 -
[10]
Originally by: dalman
Most useless mod is: regenerative platings.
Bull. =)
With a load of these and t2 armor hp rigs you can get like 200k armor hp's out of a Augoror navy issue, Thats a cruiser btw 
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Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0
1 Shot 1 Kill
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Posted - 2007.04.27 11:44:00 -
[11]
Cap flux coils :P PDU gives only slightly less recharge bonus yet none of the penalties and more shield hp/recharge, too.
Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly
Radio is essential for Amarr, to call the much needed backup...
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smallgreenblur
Minmatar
Wreckless Abandon
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.04.27 11:44:00 -
[12]
Rigs that give damage /rof bonuses.
To explain, the above rigs suffer from a stacking penalty when fitted on a ship with damage mods in place. It is common practice and knowledge that more than 3 damage mods is effectively useless on one ship, due to this stacking.
If you are setting up a gank ship, a rig that give damage or rof bonuses will be entirely useless, as you might as well fit damage mods in lows, which give dual bonuses rather than the single bonus the above rigs give.
To make them actually useful, the damage bonus should be massively increased and a corresponding rof penalty added. This will allow ships to be rigged for high alpha / low dps, thus staying in line with the point of a rig.
sgb
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Yoshimako
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Posted - 2007.04.27 11:46:00 -
[13]
Originally by: smallgreenblur
Rigs that give damage /rof bonuses.
To explain, the above rigs suffer from a stacking penalty when fitted on a ship with damage mods in place. It is common practice and knowledge that more than 3 damage mods is effectively useless on one ship, due to this stacking.
If you are setting up a gank ship, a rig that give damage or rof bonuses will be entirely useless, as you might as well fit damage mods in lows, which give dual bonuses rather than the single bonus the above rigs give.
To make them actually useful, the damage bonus should be massively increased and a corresponding rof penalty added. This will allow ships to be rigged for high alpha / low dps, thus staying in line with the point of a rig.
sgb
That, actually, is a very nice idea 
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Pan Crastus
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Posted - 2007.04.27 12:00:00 -
[14]
- micro and small smartbombs (oh yeah, they kill Titans)
- micro and small cap batteries (since all ships got much more cap now, so they can warp around fine despite MWD)
- micro and small shield extenders (everyone fits oversized ones these days due to far too little PG use)
- micro and small shield transporters (not gonna save anyone or anyone's POS)
- most "basic" modules, esp. energized plating ... people just fit plates
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Rosalina Sarinna
KHM Corporation
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Posted - 2007.04.27 12:05:00 -
[15]
I use large capacitor batteries on my support ships :D
High cap recharge + huge capacitor = win :)
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Maximillian Power
Minmatar
WOLFPACK DELTA
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.27 12:16:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Pan Crastus
- most "basic" modules, esp. energized plating ... people just fit plates
So useless is defined by the amount of people that use it rather than the actual usefulness of the module.
--------------------------------
So.... |
smallgreenblur
Minmatar
Wreckless Abandon
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.04.27 12:17:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Maximillian Power
Originally by: Pan Crastus
- most "basic" modules, esp. energized plating ... people just fit plates
So useless is defined by the amount of people that use it rather than the actual usefulness of the module.
'basic' is another word for 'stuff a noobalt can use, and everybody else just refines'.
sgb
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Maximillian Power
Minmatar
WOLFPACK DELTA
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.27 12:19:00 -
[18]
Originally by: smallgreenblur
Originally by: Maximillian Power
Originally by: Pan Crastus
- most "basic" modules, esp. energized plating ... people just fit plates
So useless is defined by the amount of people that use it rather than the actual usefulness of the module.
'basic' is another word for 'stuff a noobalt can use, and everybody else just refines'.
sgb
aah k - misread that then - yeah basic modules suck - but comparing them to plates is a bit mad, no???
--------------------------------
So.... |
Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.27 12:20:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Akita T
2. If you want to talk useless weapon systems, look at Heavy Assault Launchers.
Don't dis HAM! I love them on my 450 dps ratting nanocurse! 
(Of cource, you are right that they suck on most caldari ships)
And while we are at it, add amarr drones to the list.
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Ohdows
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Posted - 2007.04.27 12:24:00 -
[20]
heavy assault missiles can be used on some minmatar ac-setups for good function (why need the extra range of normal heavys above that little extra dps?)
cap flux coild can be used on pve-ships to push the cap regen a little higher to be able to perma tank.
none of these are useless, but perhaps not that useful as an ac-setup can benefit from noses instead of ham's and you can get extra shield and pg instead of that minimal extra cap regen
-------
sorry for any misspelling or type errors
(actualy i am dyslectic... so i wont apologise) |
smallgreenblur
Minmatar
Wreckless Abandon
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.04.27 12:26:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Ohdows
heavy assault missiles can be used on some minmatar ac-setups for good function (why need the extra range of normal heavys above that little extra dps?)
cap flux coild can be used on pve-ships to push the cap regen a little higher to be able to perma tank.
none of these are useless, but perhaps not that useful as an ac-setup can benefit from noses instead of ham's and you can get extra shield and pg instead of that minimal extra cap regen
The problem with cap flux is the penalty it gives makes it worse than a cap power relay, even for peak regen. Otherwise everybody would use it instead of a cap power relay :)
sgb
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Ryysa
North Face Force
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.27 12:26:00 -
[22]
Regarding large cap batteries...
On quite a few HACs/cruisers a Large Cap Battery allows you to run permatank.
For example the dual mar II ishtar with ab which runs completely perma is not possible without a large cap battery...
It's the medium/smaller sized ones that are hardly used... especially the medium...
Guide to EW - Killboard Mirroring tool |
smallgreenblur
Minmatar
Wreckless Abandon
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.04.27 12:32:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Maximillian Power
Originally by: smallgreenblur
Originally by: Maximillian Power
Originally by: Pan Crastus
- most "basic" modules, esp. energized plating ... people just fit plates
So useless is defined by the amount of people that use it rather than the actual usefulness of the module.
'basic' is another word for 'stuff a noobalt can use, and everybody else just refines'.
sgb
aah k - misread that then - yeah basic modules suck - but comparing them to plates is a bit mad, no???
Yeah i was agreeing with you but also pointing out you'd missed he was talking about basic platings.
What would have made more sense from the first dude was 'basic platings. Everybody just fits t1/2'.
sgb
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Malcanis
High4Life
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Posted - 2007.04.27 12:44:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Pan Crastus
- micro and small smartbombs (oh yeah, they kill Titans)
- micro and small cap batteries (since all ships got much more cap now, so they can warp around fine despite MWD)
- micro and small shield extenders (everyone fits oversized ones these days due to far too little PG use)
- micro and small shield transporters (not gonna save anyone or anyone's POS)
- most "basic" modules, esp. energized plating ... people just fit plates
Small cap batteries are useful on scouting frigates, to save having to make multiple warps to cross large systems.
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Anas Damona
Caldari
Splintered Shards of Europe
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Posted - 2007.04.27 13:13:00 -
[25]
Civilian Mining Drones seem kinda pointless, since they have the same skill requirements as the Mining Drone I. I suppose they're cheaper, otherwise I can't see why anyone would ever use them.
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dalman
Finite Horizon
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Posted - 2007.04.27 13:14:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Xeios
Originally by: dalman
Most useless mod is: regenerative platings.
Bull. =)
With a load of these and t2 armor hp rigs you can get like 200k armor hp's out of a Augoror navy issue, Thats a cruiser btw
And I see we have another winner of the "post without math"-award.
You can't look a HP without resistance. You must look at HP with the resistance factored in. And then it's the simple truth that these modules are useless. If you fit one, you are wrong. Period. There will always be a better mod for you to fit in that slot.
Am I forced to have any regret?
I've become the lie, beautiful and free
In my righteous own mind
I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me |
Ohdows
|
Posted - 2007.04.27 13:29:00 -
[27]
Originally by: smallgreenblur
The problem with cap flux is the penalty it gives makes it worse than a cap power relay, even for peak regen. Otherwise everybody would use it instead of a cap power relay :)
sgb
yea but power relays give -shield boost
-------
sorry for any misspelling or type errors
(actualy i am dyslectic... so i wont apologise) |
Kai Lae
Gallente
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.04.27 13:55:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Ryysa
Regarding large cap batteries...
On quite a few HACs/cruisers a Large Cap Battery allows you to run permatank.
For example the dual mar II ishtar with ab which runs completely perma is not possible without a large cap battery...
It's the medium/smaller sized ones that are hardly used... especially the medium...
The problem isn't that the module is useless. It's actually not bad function wise. The problem is that the fitting for the module is nutty when compared to the alternates. Why use a cap battery when you can use a cap recharger for 1/10th the fitting cost usually?
Medium beam lasers are the same sort of thing, with nutty fitting requirements.
Raptor and Ares Fix |
Got b00ns
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Posted - 2007.04.27 14:45:00 -
[29]
1.Energized regenerative membrane/Regenerative platings
2.Logistic ships in general
3.Tracking disruptors (well they are only less usefull compared to other ewar)
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Cheyenne Shadowborn
Caldari
Citizens of E.A.R.T.H.
E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2007.04.27 15:38:00 -
[30]
Originally by: James Lyrus
Autotargeters
Can we have a thread with the 'almost worthless' modules too? (In a 'they do something, buy why would anyone ever fit one') sense.
The irony is that these would actually be great for (drunken/stoned/lazy) PvE mission running if they'd target only red stuff and not think that a cargo rig is a bigger threat than a BS.
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CCP: PLEASE fix the forum software - thanks. |
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