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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Ittey
Gallente
Rayden Industries
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Posted - 2007.04.28 09:41:00 -
[1]
I noticed that there isn't a single well put togethor invention guide, not that I have seen anyways. So I put one togethor. It is IGB safe. Let me know if anything is wrong or could be improved. I plan on adding screenshots to the example sometime soon.
clicky
The guide is the main page, the decryptors page is just that information because I find it useful as a solo faster loading page personally.
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Pixmo Guerra
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Posted - 2007.04.28 10:20:00 -
[2]
Really nice. 
I think though that the 0.8 decryptor (Sacred manifesto etc) has a +2 run output, 0 effect on ME and +4 on PE.
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Talleria Lange
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Posted - 2007.04.28 12:37:00 -
[3]
Thanx for the info. Been looking for some solid info on the invention process before i go and try my hand at it.
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Reachok
Amarr
Low Grade Ore
Te-Ka
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Posted - 2007.04.28 14:31:00 -
[4]
The Amarr and Minmatar data interfaces appear to be reversed under Materials in the guide. The other two types are correct. Thanks for putting this together!
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Ittey
Gallente
Rayden Industries
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Posted - 2007.04.28 18:24:00 -
[5]
Ok, fixed the typo's in the decryptor information (both pages) and the interfaces. As always let me know if anything else stands out that needs fixing.
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Qual
Gallente
Cornexant Research
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Posted - 2007.04.28 20:22:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Qual on 28/04/2007 20:22:22
Looks nice. Havent read it all yet. Did spot a single error though:
Ballistic Control System I is metalevel 0 and not 1
Cross Linked Bolt Array I is metalevel 1 and not 2
"It bears mentioning that factional, officer and tech 2 items do not have a meta level and cannot be used."
Tthey do. All T2 items are metalevel 5. Faction and officer items are metalevel 5+. You can only use items of a lower metalevel than what you are trying to invent, so non of these are usable for T2 invention.
"The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf |
Ittey
Rayden Industries
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Posted - 2007.04.28 22:40:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Qual
Looks nice. Did spot a few errors though on the first reading:
Ballistic Control System I is metalevel 0 and not 1
Cross Linked Bolt Array I is metalevel 1 and not 2
Fixed
Originally by: Qual
They do. All T2 items are metalevel 5. Faction and officer items are metalevel 5+. You can only use items of a lower metalevel than what you are trying to invent, so non of these are usable for T2 invention.
Didn't know this, updated the guide to correct it.
Originally by: Qual
And as you choose to write the decryptor modifiers and not the resulting ME/PE level (which are actualy static depending on decrytor type used) you should mention that the base ME & PE of a invented BPC is -4, else the table is kinda useless.
Also didn't know that the base run is -4, so mentioned that. Should be more clear now.
I am still pretty new to inventing, so don't know all the tricks yet.
Nice work all, keep the fixes coming 
----------------------------------------------
My invention guide: here |
Meau
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Posted - 2007.04.29 11:13:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Meau on 29/04/2007 11:10:11
Nice work :), 2 comments:
- you could make it clearer that you need the 2 science skills for the datacores to do invention. It is more or less in the text, at the end, but not clearly, and not in the list. Some people may misinterpret the: "you also need the skills for manufacturing of the tech 2 good if you want to build it yourself" that you only need them when you want to manufacture, or to raise your success chance(last sentence)
- Listing decryptor stats is of course vital, but to my knowledge their stats are not set in stone and could have chanced since the datadump from which they stem. Apart from the chance multiplier, wasnt there some strange behaviour of run number with one type? Ill try to remember or dig it out ^^.
Maybe put in a small disclaimer "use at your own risk" or something ;)
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Jei'son Bladesmith
Bladesmith Mining and Development Consortium
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Posted - 2007.04.29 20:08:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Jei''son Bladesmith on 29/04/2007 20:06:50
Man I wish I had seen this before I had blown all that isk on decryptors and interfaces only to learn I had about a month of training to do before I could even try to invent anything *sigh*
good job, Piewat Bunny approves!
(\_/)
(☼.o)....Yarr
(>.<)
PS....I vote this to be sticky'd...its good info that doesnt deserve to be lost in the sea of whining and ranting threads below
☼☼☼ Life's a *****, then you get podded ☼☼☼
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Ittey
Rayden Industries
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Posted - 2007.04.29 23:56:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Meau
- you could make it clearer that you need the 2 science skills for the datacores to do invention. It is more or less in the text, at the end, but not clearly, and not in the list. Some people may misinterpret the: "you also need the skills for manufacturing of the tech 2 good if you want to build it yourself" that you only need them when you want to manufacture, or to raise your success chance(last sentence)
Put example in the skills area so this should make it more obvious. Don't want to put the skills in the list because that is just the general invention skills.
Originally by: Meau
Apart from the chance multiplier, wasnt there some strange behaviour of run number with one type? Ill try to remember or dig it out ^^.
The final number of runs is determined (by a formula I do not know atm) based on how many runs your t1 bpc had and how the decryptor changed it.
Originally by: Meau
Maybe put in a small disclaimer "use at your own risk" or something ;)
Good idea, so noted.
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My invention guide: here |
Zyrathi KIllrathi
Serenity Inc
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Posted - 2007.04.30 01:43:00 -
[11]
Very nice post, mate. Good Job! (y)
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Ittey
Rayden Industries
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Posted - 2007.04.30 01:49:00 -
[12]
Added a graphical walkthrough of what making an invention job looks like as well as fixed some other minor errors.
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My invention guide: here |
Silvatico
Far Ranger
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Posted - 2007.04.30 07:45:00 -
[13]
Thanks for making this guide; it is helpful!
Are the numbers known for how each meta-level of base item helps the success rate of the invention job?
And do we have any quantification on how the number of runs on the input BPC influences the success rate?
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Ittey
Rayden Industries
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Posted - 2007.04.30 08:44:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Silvatico
Thanks for making this guide; it is helpful!
Are the numbers known for how each meta-level of base item helps the success rate of the invention job?
And do we have any quantification on how the number of runs on the input BPC influences the success rate?
I'm sure someone does, but I don't. When I find out it will go in the guide.
----------------------------------------------
My invention guide: here |
Nix Cornholio
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Posted - 2007.04.30 09:20:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Silvatico
Are the numbers known for how each meta-level of base item helps the success rate of the invention job?
Meta-lvl u can find here
items databank
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Qual
Gallente
Cornexant Research
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Posted - 2007.04.30 11:39:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Ittey
Originally by: Silvatico
Thanks for making this guide; it is helpful!
Are the numbers known for how each meta-level of base item helps the success rate of the invention job?
And do we have any quantification on how the number of runs on the input BPC influences the success rate?
I'm sure someone does, but I don't. When I find out it will go in the guide.
Perhaps this can explain it. Follow the link in that post back to the original explanation, and read the little correction I made in the linked post. Together those two posts should explain the relation between runs on the T1 BPC and the inveted T2 BPC.
"The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf |
Tinkerbele
Puppets on Steroids
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Posted - 2007.04.30 17:29:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Tinkerbele on 30/04/2007 17:30:24
Edited by: Tinkerbele on 30/04/2007 17:27:34
Great guide Ittey, thanks!
I'd love to know the base chance of invention; like if your required skills were all at minimum level and without the optional components. Then, what percentage each lvl of skill provides. We already know (from this great guide) what each optional component does to the chances of invention. I just like to know what the base chances are.
edit**
2nd edit** My previous edit was too confusing
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Daerkannon Shimmerscale
Gallente
Paxton Industries
Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2007.04.30 18:56:00 -
[18]
Base chance, the effect of meta-item level and how much skills help are all something that is still unknown, although we are getting better ideas all the time. If you want to help find out what the base chance is head to this thread and help out by contributing some data!
Me, I'm waiting for SiSi to stop acting up and let me on. Lost a whole weekend of testing. 
---
Honest officer, the dwarf was on fire when I got here!
Can't find a mechanical engineering agent? Need a non-Caldari Navy agent? http://www.eve-agents.com/ for all your agent needs! |
Tinkerbele
Puppets on Steroids
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Posted - 2007.04.30 19:32:00 -
[19]
Daer,
I would love to participate in the data gathering, but at the moment I have only rudimentary skills for this. I am considering training just the minimum and having a go, just to help the research. We'll see. There's a lot of things to waste isk on out there atm.
If I do decide to do this I will keep you all informed on my skill level and out come so that we can get a better handle on this "invention" thing.
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Daerkannon Shimmerscale
Gallente
Paxton Industries
Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2007.04.30 20:12:00 -
[20]
This is why a lot of us do our testing on SiSi instead of on Tranquility... everything costs just 100ISK there and can be bought directly off of the market.
Of course there's the chance that things get tweaked on the test server without CCP telling us, but I like to think that's the exception rather than the rule.
---
Honest officer, the dwarf was on fire when I got here!
Can't find a mechanical engineering agent? Need a non-Caldari Navy agent? http://www.eve-agents.com/ for all your agent needs! |
Ittey
Rayden Industries
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Posted - 2007.04.30 22:31:00 -
[21]
Added a section to the guide that shows the formula how the starting bpc affects the outcome. Should be a little more clear on that now.
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My invention guide: here |
GuntiNDDS
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Posted - 2007.05.01 14:33:00 -
[22]
ok, i got a question :)
in the beginning it sais:
Quote:
The material and production efficiency have NO effect on the final blueprint.
but then later it sais:
Quote:
The stats of the blueprint copy affect you outcome tech 2 bpc in the following ways. Thanks to Qual for posting these.
ME = -4 + Decryptor bonus
PE = -4 + Decryptor bonus
?
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Qual
Gallente
Cornexant Research
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Posted - 2007.05.01 18:58:00 -
[23]
Originally by: GuntiNDDS
?
Should read something like:
"The stats of the decryptor affect you outcome tech 2 bpc in the following ways."
The ME and PE of the original T1 BPC does indeed have no effect.
"The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf |
Ittey
Rayden Industries
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Posted - 2007.05.02 08:19:00 -
[24]
Originally by: GuntiNDDS
ok, i got a question :)
in the beginning it sais:
Quote:
The material and production efficiency have NO effect on the final blueprint.
but then later it sais:
Quote:
The stats of the blueprint copy affect you outcome tech 2 bpc in the following ways. Thanks to Qual for posting these.
ME = -4 + Decryptor bonus
PE = -4 + Decryptor bonus
?
Yeah that was just bad wording, should be much more clear now. I really need to stop writing this stuff up right before bed. 
----------------------------------------------
My invention guide: here |
Malaina
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Posted - 2007.05.08 16:21:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Malaina on 08/05/2007 16:19:28
My apologies if this has already been answered here. I looked, but couldn't find the answer. When people talk about the 3 skills being needed for invention, are they referring to "XXXXX Encryption Methods", and then the 2 skills specific to that particular BP, such as Mechanical Engineering and Electronic Engineering? Are those the only skills used? If so, raising other skills such as Hacking or Science won't do anything, will it? Thanks!
And thank you Ittey for doing the guide. It's a tremendous help.
Malaina
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Qual
Gallente
Cornexant Research
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Posted - 2007.05.08 19:55:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Qual on 08/05/2007 19:52:00
Might want to add this as well Ittey.
"The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf |
Airmaker
Umbra Congregatio
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Posted - 2007.05.09 11:19:00 -
[27]
One point, what are the skills which actually impact on the invention success rate?
Are these only the encrytion, and related item science skill, or should I be maxing the other "invention Specific" skills as you call them in the guide i.e. should I max out electronics, engineering and hacking etc.
Nice guide
Thanks
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Raven Hyperbollic
Paradox v2.0
1 Shot 1 Kill
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Posted - 2007.05.09 11:46:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Raven Hyperbollic on 09/05/2007 11:44:24
Edited by: Raven Hyperbollic on 09/05/2007 11:43:07
Ok, erm How do I know which encryption methods skill's I need? It's obvious for the ships but what about all the modules. example covert ops cloak t2.
That's not clear in the guide.
Do I need to get lvl 4 in all encryption skills for standard module invention?
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Qual
Gallente
Cornexant Research
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Posted - 2007.05.09 13:43:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Raven Hyperbollic
Edited by: Raven Hyperbollic on 09/05/2007 11:44:24
Edited by: Raven Hyperbollic on 09/05/2007 11:43:07
Ok, erm How do I know which encryption methods skill's I need? It's obvious for the ships but what about all the modules. example covert ops cloak t2.
That's not clear in the guide.
Do I need to get lvl 4 in all encryption skills for standard module invention?
You need to look at the Invention tab on the blueprint. There you can see what interface type is needed. This again tells you the race skill needed indirectly.
Cryptic -> Minmatar
Esoteric -> Caldari
Incognito -> Gallente
Occult -> Amarr
"The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf |
Ittey
Rayden Industries
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Posted - 2007.05.16 02:25:00 -
[30]
Sorry it has taken me so long to update, been busy. Should be worth the wait though.
First I reworked the entire thing, there is now a short intro and an in depth page instead of it all being mixed into one. Then I added a page listing all skills related to invention and how they affect it. Should clarify alot of things that I skimmed over.
Originally by: Qual
Edited by: Qual on 08/05/2007 19:52:00
Might want to add this as well Ittey.
Done.
As always let me know if you spot any errors, making web pages in notepad has that drawback.
----------------------------------------------
My invention guide: here |
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