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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
aldarrin
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Posted - 2007.09.05 02:19:00 -
[91]
Someone let me know if I'm doing something wrong here.
I've been trying to invent on max run Condor BPCs and only the first two succeeded. 10 tries later, all others have failed. All jobs used Condors for base items and no decryptors (would ruin the profit margin).
Skills: Cadari Encryption / Caldari Starship Eng / Mech Eng are all trained to 4 (training up to 5 atm).
Is this really the normal results?
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Flame on. |
Ittey
Rayden Industries
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Posted - 2007.09.05 21:39:00 -
[92]
 Originally by: Redjustice
 I'm sure I missed it some ware but wht do you get when you invent i'm not just refering to a tech 2 bpc but is it just a base bech 2 or are there higher quality tech 2 items in some cases tech 1 item apper to be better or at least more profitable like a 150mm proto rail gun for nubes like me anyway. In the end i'm just trying to determin potential carear paths. In a lot of cases i'd prefer to have high end tech 1 BP's which i dont know how to obtaine or havent found than a low quality tech 2.
Please any help would be greatly appreciated from all you long term hardend vets.
There is only one tech 2 version, there aren't different meta levels of them. You can only get tech 1 bp's for the base item, the named modules are loot only.
Originally by: aldarrin
Someone let me know if I'm doing something wrong here.
I've been trying to invent on max run Condor BPCs and only the first two succeeded. 10 tries later, all others have failed. All jobs used Condors for base items and no decryptors (would ruin the profit margin).
Skills: Cadari Encryption / Caldari Starship Eng / Mech Eng are all trained to 4 (training up to 5 atm).
Is this really the normal results?
All the numbers I have heard say ship invention is around 25%, so while you are a bit low it isn't unreasonable. 12 jobs is a tiny statistical sample.
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My invention guide: here |
k Rose
Aeon Interstellar Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.09.06 04:06:00 -
[93]
Warning
Before you spend countless ISK and TIME, and your hard earn cash "Think Again" This isn't good idea for starter corps. It's defiantly a gamble
Is 3run production (that cost millions of isk worth it?)
Save your isk and buy the BPO!
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Plundaar
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Posted - 2007.09.07 20:58:00 -
[94]
Originally by: k Rose
Warning
Before you spend countless ISK and TIME, and your hard earn cash "Think Again" This isn't good idea for starter corps. It's defiantly a gamble
Is 3run production (that cost millions of isk worth it?)
Save your isk and buy the BPO!
Buy what BPO if it's T2? |
Hawk Cromwell
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Posted - 2007.09.08 04:58:00 -
[95]
Any Ideas as to how the "Draftsman" implant (slot 9) effects Invention? Chances of success only? or does it effect ME/PE/Runs?? |
Z010
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Posted - 2007.09.08 09:13:00 -
[96]
Does ME/PE of BPC affect chances of success in any way? Or am I being foolish researching BPO's to 100 ME 50 PE before starting copying.
p.s. I realize from reading above that they no affect on runs/PE/ME of the "successful" invention, but I am still wondering what the factors are getting even a one-run BPC of anything.
skill/skill/skill ME/PE i.e. (sci/sci/enc ME/PE) weighting factors. |
Taizu Lilith
Minmatar
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.09.09 05:02:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Hawk Cromwell
Any Ideas as to how the "Draftsman" implant (slot 9) effects Invention? Chances of success only? or does it effect ME/PE/Runs??
I can't find this in game?
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Ittey
Rayden Industries
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Posted - 2007.09.09 08:21:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Z010
Does ME/PE of BPC affect chances of success in any way? Or am I being foolish researching BPO's to 100 ME 50 PE before starting copying.
p.s. I realize from reading above that they no affect on runs/PE/ME of the "successful" invention, but I am still wondering what the factors are getting even a one-run BPC of anything.
skill/skill/skill ME/PE i.e. (sci/sci/enc ME/PE) weighting factors.
Only your skills and decryptors affect the chances of a successful job. The PE/ME have no effect whatsoever on the final blueprint, either in terms of quality or of getting one.
----------------------------------------------
My invention guide: here |
Purple Roids
Caldari
Invent0r Corp
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Posted - 2007.09.11 13:40:00 -
[99]
Thanks a lot for you guide, it was a great help to get my invention started. I don't know any other place where you get such a complete write-up on invention :-)
But after my first few successful jobs, I think I have found an error on your advanced section, in the part about the ME influence on building the items:
Originally by: Invention Guide
Waste = (-ME - 1)/10
The following table lists the ME, wastage and the constant to multiply the base mineral use by
ME Wastage Constant
-4 0.3 1.3
-5 0.4 1.4
-6 0.5 1.5
-7 0.6 1.6
-8 0.7 1.7
That seems to be wrong, at least for the BPCs I get from different setups. I'm getting a waste factor of 0.5 with ME-4 and 0.9 with ME-8. The formula is not working for my BPCs, unless I exchange the '-' with a '+':
Waste = (-ME + 1) / 10
With that I get:
Waste = (-(-8) + 1) / 10 = 0.9 and
Waste = (-(-4) + 1) / 10 = 0.5
which is correct according to my BPCs. The values in the table are wrong then and should look like this:
ME Wastage Constant
-4 0.5 1.5
-5 0.6 1.6
-6 0.7 1.7
-7 0.8 1.8
-8 0.9 1.9
I just started inventing a few days ago, so I can only tell these figures from the one item I have invented so far, but the influence of negative ME levels should be the same on all items: My item has a base need of 14.508 Pyerite and I get these values on my BPCs (works as well for the other minerals of course):
- ME-8: 27.565 Pyerite --> 14.508 * 1.9 = 27.565,2
- ME-4: 21.762 Pyerite --> 14.508 * 1.5 = 21.762
This seems to perfectly fit the formula above.
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Sfagnum
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Posted - 2007.09.12 08:41:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Ittey
MaxRunsOutputBPC: 1 for ships, 10 for modules.
mb it can be "The production limits of output blueprint"?
and it should be:
Runs = max(1;Round.Down(ActualRunsInputBPC/MaxRunsInputBPC*MaxRunsOutputBPC/10 + DecryptorBonusRuns))
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Purple Roids
Caldari
Invent0r Corp
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Posted - 2007.09.12 18:38:00 -
[101]
Ok, after I've read Akita T's posting about invention here, I see that your ME formula is actually not wrong, but outdated ... According to Akita there was a bug in the wastage calculation with negative ME levels, which generated exactly the values you currently have in your table. That bug seems to have been fixed before I started to invent, as all my BPCs are calculating wastage with 'my' formula from above :-)
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Mighty Baz
HUSARIA
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.14 11:02:00 -
[102]
success rate of invention formula - new point of view
skill lvl 1 = 5%
...
skill lvl 5 = 25%
odds= skill1 (lvl)*skill2 (lvl)*skill3 (lvl)* decryptor (chance)* (max available runs/max used runs)
for example:
mechanical lvl4: (20%)
amarr decryption lvl4: (20%)
amarr starship lvl4: (20%)
war startegon: 1,3 (30%)
max available/max used - 10/15=0.6667
odds = 1,2 x 1,2 * 1,2 * 1,3 * 0,667 = 1,497,
so it means the result of bpc of t2 is 49,7%
______________________________________________
based on legendary XVII century Polish winged cavalry |
Sainna
Minmatar
Brotherhood of the Void
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Posted - 2007.09.17 20:58:00 -
[103]
OK, after reading most of this--I'm a bit confused. I wanted to do invention and I trained the skills for invention...or so I thought.
I've been told that I did and didn't need Minmatar Encryption and I don't see it on any of the stuff for required skills.
So do I need it or not?
If so, why can I not find it on the market? Is this one of those skills that I have to spend half my life exploring in low-sec space? I did see a guy selling it on the market for 250mil but that is just ridiculous. If that is what I face to do invention, then forget it.
Drill Instructor: "If your nature didn't lead you to trample everyone in your path with vindictive glee, you might be tolerable. |
Purple Roids
Caldari
Invent0r Corp
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Posted - 2007.09.17 23:59:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Sainna
I've been told that I did and didn't need Minmatar Encryption and I don't see it on any of the stuff for required skills.
So do I need it or not?
If so, why can I not find it on the market? Is this one of those skills that I have to spend half my life exploring in low-sec space? I did see a guy selling it on the market for 250mil but that is just ridiculous. If that is what I face to do invention, then forget it.
That totally depends on the item you want to invent. Just check the blueprint of the tech1 item at the market, Bill of Materials --> Invention. That should list all skills you will need to invent this specific item. As for the price of the encryption skills, yes, they are quite expensive. But you might want to check one of the market hubs, this is where you can get them at a 'reasonable' price. But anyways, just take a look at Ittey's Guide, it explains it all very well :-)
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Ittey
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
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Posted - 2007.09.18 04:35:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Purple Roids
which is correct according to my BPCs. The values in the table are wrong then and should look like this:
ME Wastage Constant
-4 0.5 1.5
-5 0.6 1.6
-6 0.7 1.7
-7 0.8 1.8
-8 0.9 1.9
Yeah CCP changed this shortly after I posted my guide and haven't gotten around to fixing it. Not the only problem that has been pointed out to me.
Originally by: Sainna
OK, after reading most of this--I'm a bit confused. I wanted to do invention and I trained the skills for invention...or so I thought.
I've been told that I did and didn't need Minmatar Encryption and I don't see it on any of the stuff for required skills.
So do I need it or not?
If so, why can I not find it on the market? Is this one of those skills that I have to spend half my life exploring in low-sec space? I did see a guy selling it on the market for 250mil but that is just ridiculous. If that is what I face to do invention, then forget it.
You only need Minmatar Encryption Methods if you intend to invent things that require it, e.g. microwarpdrives etc. And yes the skill does actually cost several hundred million.
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My invention guide: here |
Ittey
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
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Posted - 2007.09.18 05:25:00 -
[106]
UPDATE: (Finally)
Fixed the max run formula to be much more readable.
Pictoral guide no longer refers to "Electrical Datacores".
ME/PE tables have been updated to match current Eve universe.
If anything is wrong, or I broke something, don't hesitate to contact me either here or in game.
----------------------------------------------
My invention guide: here |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.09.19 07:25:00 -
[107]
Handy invention average profit calculating XLS.
Not my work to begin with, only modified by me (credit given inside), still a work in progress, but close enough.
_
[CNVTF] is recruiting | Char creation guide | Stack-nerfing explained |
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Zzz
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Posted - 2007.09.21 09:11:00 -
[108]
Updated version, which combines features from both of the above: link
My research services
Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats |
PHPR Wifimoocher
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Posted - 2007.09.26 03:15:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Ittey
If anything is wrong, or I broke something, don't hesitate to contact me either here or in game.
well i started invention a day or so ago and found your guide to be invaluable.
I did notice though that the metalevel for some T1 items are 0. Is there a point to even using these items? Like in your guide the Ballistic control system 1 has a meta value of 0 on your page and Eve coldfront marker as well. should i just not use the generic T1 items or has this been fixed to show that all t1 generic items have a meta value of 1 now?
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Zzz
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Posted - 2007.09.26 14:59:00 -
[110]
Manufactured T1 items have a meta level of 0. Although it's hard to be sure, it seems that they don't affect invention success rates.
My research services
Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats |
Aykido
Gallente
Lobster of Babel
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Posted - 2007.09.26 15:54:00 -
[111]
Waste calc table shows 0% waste with ME 0. Should be 10%.
Mobile Warp bubbles have a max of 10 runs, but using a max run BPC does not give a single extra run. Production limit of the T2 variant is 5 runs, and even with +9 run decryptor you only get a 5 run BPC.
In the text above the science skills you call datacores decryptors.
Should have a section on R&D agents, RPs per day, and Datacore costs in terms of RPs.
But the guide is definately getting close to perfect. Good job!
Selling PERFECT PRINTS of every seeded T1 BPO: modules, rigs, drones, ammo and ships (4 ships missing), and most capital modules too! Selling any INVENTED T2 BPC by order! Can build also! |
PHPR Wifimoocher
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Posted - 2007.09.26 21:29:00 -
[112]
So I would understand it as 10 runs being max for most modules, ships have there own number and mobile warp bubbles along with others have there own max runs the bpc will come out with.
you cant get higher than that amount (unless ccp changes things) but you can increase your chances of getting the max run bpc out of it by doing the following:
using a max run bpc.
- not always 300 runs and can vary. put 99999 in the runs field when making a copy to ensure you're getting the max runs made.
Using a tech 1 base item:
- Meta values apply so use an upgraded one for better success %. the better the item the better the result. as i understand it you can't or the system wont let you use faction or T2 items as the base item.
Using a decypter:
- These range in price and yes prolly not worth it when inventing modules. From reading this thread and my own experiance the cheaper modules don't need a decypter as you will have a good chance of getting max runs without using a decrypter. You can still use one for lowering the ME/PE of the T2 bpc but the cost of the decrypter may not offset the amount you save in material / production time costs.
It looks as though using a decypter on ships would help and be worth the investment.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Zzz
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Posted - 2007.09.26 23:04:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Aykido
Waste calc table shows 0% waste with ME 0. Should be 10%.
The latest version has corrected the material multipliers in relation to T2 BPO material costs.
Quote:
Mobile Warp bubbles have a max of 10 runs, but using a max run BPC does not give a single extra run. Production limit of the T2 variant is 5 runs, and even with +9 run decryptor you only get a 5 run BPC.
I'm aware of this, but afaik this is the only item that works this way, and I prefer to modify a separate copy of the spreadsheet to deal with it. CCP Chronotis has said that this is in line to be fixed so that one can obtain a 10-run BPC.
Quote:
In the text above the science skills you call datacores decryptors.
This has been corrected in the version linked to above.
Quote:
Should have a section on R&D agents, RPs per day, and Datacore costs in terms of RPs.
It's possible to consume datacores much faster than any one player can produce them; no serious inventor will be able to avoid buying datacores off the market. Adding such a section would be veering dangerously close to the 'minerals I mine myself are free' mindset.
Quote:
In the sample on basic procedure you advice people to create a 300 run copy of Ballistic Control System I, The max runs is 1000 so this will give 3 run T2 BPC instead of a 10 run with a 1000 run BPC.
Are we talking about the same guide?
My research services
Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats |
Aykido
Gallente
Lobster of Babel
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Posted - 2007.09.29 11:40:00 -
[114]
Tweaking continues, production limit of light and heavy missiles has been adjusted to be in line with other ammo. So they are now also 1500runs.
Old max run copies are no longer max run copies :)
Selling PERFECT PRINTS of every seeded T1 BPO: modules, rigs, drones, ammo and ships (4 ships missing), and most capital modules too! Selling any INVENTED T2 BPC by order! Can build also! |
Ittey
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
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Posted - 2007.09.29 23:25:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Aykido
Edited by: Aykido on 26/09/2007 15:56:49
Waste calc table shows 0% waste with ME 0. Should be 10%.
Fixed, PE table was wrong too.
Originally by: Aykido
Mobile Warp bubbles have a max of 10 runs, but using a max run BPC does not give a single extra run. Production limit of the T2 variant is 5 runs, and even with +9 run decryptor you only get a 5 run BPC.
Didn't feel the need to put that in the guide since it is going to be changed soon enough. Also not alot of beginners are going to start with those (I think).
Originally by: Aykido
In the text above the science skills you call datacores decryptors.
Fixed.
Originally by: Aykido
Should have a section on R&D agents, RPs per day, and Datacore costs in terms of RPs.
I liked this idea, so now there is a guide to getting your own datacores in the advanced section.
Originally by: Aykido
In the sample on basic procedure you advice people to create a 300 run copy of Ballistic Control System I, The max runs is 1000 so this will give 3 run T2 BPC instead of a 10 run with a 1000 run BPC.
Silly devs changing the game and making my guide obsolete.
Originally by: Aykido
But the guide is definately getting close to perfect. Good job!
Thanks, mostly to the effort of finicky readers much as yourself honestly.
----------------------------------------------
My invention guide: here |
LukeSzkajvoker
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Posted - 2007.10.09 10:12:00 -
[116]
Hi,
I just want to ask if I'm a matarr character I have much more chance to be successfull in matarr inventions? I mean if I use matarr decryptors (I'm using allways that type which gives me more chance to be success especially assembly instruction, or installation guide if doing caldari invent...) I'm allways successfull in matarr ship invention. But if I use the same type caldari decryptor (installation guide) it's good when I get 1 successfull invention job about 8-10 caldari ship invention job. The matarr and caldari skills are at the same level. Is it a bug with the lottery system or is this the normal way may be there are differenties in the chance incrising by the different faction's dectryptors?
regards
---Luke---
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Ittey
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
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Posted - 2007.10.10 06:16:00 -
[117]
Originally by: LukeSzkajvoker
Hi,
I just want to ask if I'm a matarr character I have much more chance to be successfull in matarr inventions? I mean if I use matarr decryptors (I'm using allways that type which gives me more chance to be success especially assembly instruction, or installation guide if doing caldari invent...) I'm allways successfull in matarr ship invention. But if I use the same type caldari decryptor (installation guide) it's good when I get 1 successfull invention job about 8-10 caldari ship invention job. The matarr and caldari skills are at the same level. Is it a bug with the lottery system or is this the normal way may be there are differenties in the chance incrising by the different faction's dectryptors?
regards
---Luke---
No, your race has nothing to do with how successful your invention jobs are. If your matar and caldari skills are the same then the odds are the same, barring different decryptors etc. The difference is either due to stastical annomolies or percieved difference. I know I thought alot different about my jobs before I started recording the numbers.
----------------------------------------------
My invention guide: here |
LukeSzkajvoker
|
Posted - 2007.10.19 08:12:00 -
[118]
Well, statistic and chance is just one thing. But my last 30+ caldari invention job was failed while matarr was success. I think it's over the statistics...
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Big Socks
Amarr
Viziam
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Posted - 2007.10.27 16:14:00 -
[119]
Ok another question : can i copy BPC's that i have invented?? i am not to sure but though i would ask. not sure if u can copy a copy, probably not but hey.
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Ittey
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
Trinity.
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Posted - 2007.10.28 21:01:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Big Socks
Ok another question : can i copy BPC's that i have invented?? i am not to sure but though i would ask. not sure if u can copy a copy, probably not but hey.
No, you can only make copies from original blueprints, not from blueprint copies.
----------------------------------------------
My invention guide: here |
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