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Ittey
Gallente
Rayden Industries
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Posted - 2007.04.28 09:41:00 -
[1]
I noticed that there isn't a single well put togethor invention guide, not that I have seen anyways. So I put one togethor. It is IGB safe. Let me know if anything is wrong or could be improved. I plan on adding screenshots to the example sometime soon.
clicky
The guide is the main page, the decryptors page is just that information because I find it useful as a solo faster loading page personally.
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Pixmo Guerra
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Posted - 2007.04.28 10:20:00 -
[2]
Really nice. 
I think though that the 0.8 decryptor (Sacred manifesto etc) has a +2 run output, 0 effect on ME and +4 on PE.
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Talleria Lange
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Posted - 2007.04.28 12:37:00 -
[3]
Thanx for the info. Been looking for some solid info on the invention process before i go and try my hand at it.
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Reachok
Amarr
Low Grade Ore
Te-Ka
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Posted - 2007.04.28 14:31:00 -
[4]
The Amarr and Minmatar data interfaces appear to be reversed under Materials in the guide. The other two types are correct. Thanks for putting this together!
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Ittey
Gallente
Rayden Industries
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Posted - 2007.04.28 18:24:00 -
[5]
Ok, fixed the typo's in the decryptor information (both pages) and the interfaces. As always let me know if anything else stands out that needs fixing.
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Qual
Gallente
Cornexant Research
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Posted - 2007.04.28 20:22:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Qual on 28/04/2007 20:22:22
Looks nice. Havent read it all yet. Did spot a single error though:
Ballistic Control System I is metalevel 0 and not 1
Cross Linked Bolt Array I is metalevel 1 and not 2
"It bears mentioning that factional, officer and tech 2 items do not have a meta level and cannot be used."
Tthey do. All T2 items are metalevel 5. Faction and officer items are metalevel 5+. You can only use items of a lower metalevel than what you are trying to invent, so non of these are usable for T2 invention.
"The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf |
Ittey
Rayden Industries
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Posted - 2007.04.28 22:40:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Qual
Looks nice. Did spot a few errors though on the first reading:
Ballistic Control System I is metalevel 0 and not 1
Cross Linked Bolt Array I is metalevel 1 and not 2
Fixed
Originally by: Qual
They do. All T2 items are metalevel 5. Faction and officer items are metalevel 5+. You can only use items of a lower metalevel than what you are trying to invent, so non of these are usable for T2 invention.
Didn't know this, updated the guide to correct it.
Originally by: Qual
And as you choose to write the decryptor modifiers and not the resulting ME/PE level (which are actualy static depending on decrytor type used) you should mention that the base ME & PE of a invented BPC is -4, else the table is kinda useless.
Also didn't know that the base run is -4, so mentioned that. Should be more clear now.
I am still pretty new to inventing, so don't know all the tricks yet.
Nice work all, keep the fixes coming 
----------------------------------------------
My invention guide: here |
Meau
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Posted - 2007.04.29 11:13:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Meau on 29/04/2007 11:10:11
Nice work :), 2 comments:
- you could make it clearer that you need the 2 science skills for the datacores to do invention. It is more or less in the text, at the end, but not clearly, and not in the list. Some people may misinterpret the: "you also need the skills for manufacturing of the tech 2 good if you want to build it yourself" that you only need them when you want to manufacture, or to raise your success chance(last sentence)
- Listing decryptor stats is of course vital, but to my knowledge their stats are not set in stone and could have chanced since the datadump from which they stem. Apart from the chance multiplier, wasnt there some strange behaviour of run number with one type? Ill try to remember or dig it out ^^.
Maybe put in a small disclaimer "use at your own risk" or something ;)
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Jei'son Bladesmith
Bladesmith Mining and Development Consortium
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Posted - 2007.04.29 20:08:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Jei''son Bladesmith on 29/04/2007 20:06:50
Man I wish I had seen this before I had blown all that isk on decryptors and interfaces only to learn I had about a month of training to do before I could even try to invent anything *sigh*
good job, Piewat Bunny approves!
(\_/)
(☼.o)....Yarr
(>.<)
PS....I vote this to be sticky'd...its good info that doesnt deserve to be lost in the sea of whining and ranting threads below
☼☼☼ Life's a *****, then you get podded ☼☼☼
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Ittey
Rayden Industries
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Posted - 2007.04.29 23:56:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Meau
- you could make it clearer that you need the 2 science skills for the datacores to do invention. It is more or less in the text, at the end, but not clearly, and not in the list. Some people may misinterpret the: "you also need the skills for manufacturing of the tech 2 good if you want to build it yourself" that you only need them when you want to manufacture, or to raise your success chance(last sentence)
Put example in the skills area so this should make it more obvious. Don't want to put the skills in the list because that is just the general invention skills.
Originally by: Meau
Apart from the chance multiplier, wasnt there some strange behaviour of run number with one type? Ill try to remember or dig it out ^^.
The final number of runs is determined (by a formula I do not know atm) based on how many runs your t1 bpc had and how the decryptor changed it.
Originally by: Meau
Maybe put in a small disclaimer "use at your own risk" or something ;)
Good idea, so noted.
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My invention guide: here |
Zyrathi KIllrathi
Serenity Inc
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Posted - 2007.04.30 01:43:00 -
[11]
Very nice post, mate. Good Job! (y)
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Ittey
Rayden Industries
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Posted - 2007.04.30 01:49:00 -
[12]
Added a graphical walkthrough of what making an invention job looks like as well as fixed some other minor errors.
----------------------------------------------
My invention guide: here |
Silvatico
Far Ranger
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Posted - 2007.04.30 07:45:00 -
[13]
Thanks for making this guide; it is helpful!
Are the numbers known for how each meta-level of base item helps the success rate of the invention job?
And do we have any quantification on how the number of runs on the input BPC influences the success rate?
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Ittey
Rayden Industries
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Posted - 2007.04.30 08:44:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Silvatico
Thanks for making this guide; it is helpful!
Are the numbers known for how each meta-level of base item helps the success rate of the invention job?
And do we have any quantification on how the number of runs on the input BPC influences the success rate?
I'm sure someone does, but I don't. When I find out it will go in the guide.
----------------------------------------------
My invention guide: here |
Nix Cornholio
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Posted - 2007.04.30 09:20:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Silvatico
Are the numbers known for how each meta-level of base item helps the success rate of the invention job?
Meta-lvl u can find here
items databank
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Qual
Gallente
Cornexant Research
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Posted - 2007.04.30 11:39:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Ittey
Originally by: Silvatico
Thanks for making this guide; it is helpful!
Are the numbers known for how each meta-level of base item helps the success rate of the invention job?
And do we have any quantification on how the number of runs on the input BPC influences the success rate?
I'm sure someone does, but I don't. When I find out it will go in the guide.
Perhaps this can explain it. Follow the link in that post back to the original explanation, and read the little correction I made in the linked post. Together those two posts should explain the relation between runs on the T1 BPC and the inveted T2 BPC.
"The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf |
Tinkerbele
Puppets on Steroids
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Posted - 2007.04.30 17:29:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Tinkerbele on 30/04/2007 17:30:24
Edited by: Tinkerbele on 30/04/2007 17:27:34
Great guide Ittey, thanks!
I'd love to know the base chance of invention; like if your required skills were all at minimum level and without the optional components. Then, what percentage each lvl of skill provides. We already know (from this great guide) what each optional component does to the chances of invention. I just like to know what the base chances are.
edit**
2nd edit** My previous edit was too confusing
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Daerkannon Shimmerscale
Gallente
Paxton Industries
Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2007.04.30 18:56:00 -
[18]
Base chance, the effect of meta-item level and how much skills help are all something that is still unknown, although we are getting better ideas all the time. If you want to help find out what the base chance is head to this thread and help out by contributing some data!
Me, I'm waiting for SiSi to stop acting up and let me on. Lost a whole weekend of testing. 
---
Honest officer, the dwarf was on fire when I got here!
Can't find a mechanical engineering agent? Need a non-Caldari Navy agent? http://www.eve-agents.com/ for all your agent needs! |
Tinkerbele
Puppets on Steroids
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Posted - 2007.04.30 19:32:00 -
[19]
Daer,
I would love to participate in the data gathering, but at the moment I have only rudimentary skills for this. I am considering training just the minimum and having a go, just to help the research. We'll see. There's a lot of things to waste isk on out there atm.
If I do decide to do this I will keep you all informed on my skill level and out come so that we can get a better handle on this "invention" thing.
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Daerkannon Shimmerscale
Gallente
Paxton Industries
Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2007.04.30 20:12:00 -
[20]
This is why a lot of us do our testing on SiSi instead of on Tranquility... everything costs just 100ISK there and can be bought directly off of the market.
Of course there's the chance that things get tweaked on the test server without CCP telling us, but I like to think that's the exception rather than the rule.
---
Honest officer, the dwarf was on fire when I got here!
Can't find a mechanical engineering agent? Need a non-Caldari Navy agent? http://www.eve-agents.com/ for all your agent needs! |
Ittey
Rayden Industries
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Posted - 2007.04.30 22:31:00 -
[21]
Added a section to the guide that shows the formula how the starting bpc affects the outcome. Should be a little more clear on that now.
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My invention guide: here |
GuntiNDDS
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Posted - 2007.05.01 14:33:00 -
[22]
ok, i got a question :)
in the beginning it sais:
Quote:
The material and production efficiency have NO effect on the final blueprint.
but then later it sais:
Quote:
The stats of the blueprint copy affect you outcome tech 2 bpc in the following ways. Thanks to Qual for posting these.
ME = -4 + Decryptor bonus
PE = -4 + Decryptor bonus
?
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Qual
Gallente
Cornexant Research
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Posted - 2007.05.01 18:58:00 -
[23]
Originally by: GuntiNDDS
?
Should read something like:
"The stats of the decryptor affect you outcome tech 2 bpc in the following ways."
The ME and PE of the original T1 BPC does indeed have no effect.
"The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf |
Ittey
Rayden Industries
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Posted - 2007.05.02 08:19:00 -
[24]
Originally by: GuntiNDDS
ok, i got a question :)
in the beginning it sais:
Quote:
The material and production efficiency have NO effect on the final blueprint.
but then later it sais:
Quote:
The stats of the blueprint copy affect you outcome tech 2 bpc in the following ways. Thanks to Qual for posting these.
ME = -4 + Decryptor bonus
PE = -4 + Decryptor bonus
?
Yeah that was just bad wording, should be much more clear now. I really need to stop writing this stuff up right before bed. 
----------------------------------------------
My invention guide: here |
Malaina
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Posted - 2007.05.08 16:21:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Malaina on 08/05/2007 16:19:28
My apologies if this has already been answered here. I looked, but couldn't find the answer. When people talk about the 3 skills being needed for invention, are they referring to "XXXXX Encryption Methods", and then the 2 skills specific to that particular BP, such as Mechanical Engineering and Electronic Engineering? Are those the only skills used? If so, raising other skills such as Hacking or Science won't do anything, will it? Thanks!
And thank you Ittey for doing the guide. It's a tremendous help.
Malaina
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Qual
Gallente
Cornexant Research
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Posted - 2007.05.08 19:55:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Qual on 08/05/2007 19:52:00
Might want to add this as well Ittey.
"The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf |
Airmaker
Umbra Congregatio
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Posted - 2007.05.09 11:19:00 -
[27]
One point, what are the skills which actually impact on the invention success rate?
Are these only the encrytion, and related item science skill, or should I be maxing the other "invention Specific" skills as you call them in the guide i.e. should I max out electronics, engineering and hacking etc.
Nice guide
Thanks
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Raven Hyperbollic
Paradox v2.0
1 Shot 1 Kill
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Posted - 2007.05.09 11:46:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Raven Hyperbollic on 09/05/2007 11:44:24
Edited by: Raven Hyperbollic on 09/05/2007 11:43:07
Ok, erm How do I know which encryption methods skill's I need? It's obvious for the ships but what about all the modules. example covert ops cloak t2.
That's not clear in the guide.
Do I need to get lvl 4 in all encryption skills for standard module invention?
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Qual
Gallente
Cornexant Research
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Posted - 2007.05.09 13:43:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Raven Hyperbollic
Edited by: Raven Hyperbollic on 09/05/2007 11:44:24
Edited by: Raven Hyperbollic on 09/05/2007 11:43:07
Ok, erm How do I know which encryption methods skill's I need? It's obvious for the ships but what about all the modules. example covert ops cloak t2.
That's not clear in the guide.
Do I need to get lvl 4 in all encryption skills for standard module invention?
You need to look at the Invention tab on the blueprint. There you can see what interface type is needed. This again tells you the race skill needed indirectly.
Cryptic -> Minmatar
Esoteric -> Caldari
Incognito -> Gallente
Occult -> Amarr
"The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf |
Ittey
Rayden Industries
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Posted - 2007.05.16 02:25:00 -
[30]
Sorry it has taken me so long to update, been busy. Should be worth the wait though.
First I reworked the entire thing, there is now a short intro and an in depth page instead of it all being mixed into one. Then I added a page listing all skills related to invention and how they affect it. Should clarify alot of things that I skimmed over.
Originally by: Qual
Edited by: Qual on 08/05/2007 19:52:00
Might want to add this as well Ittey.
Done.
As always let me know if you spot any errors, making web pages in notepad has that drawback.
----------------------------------------------
My invention guide: here |
Gaogan
Gallente
Solar Storm
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Posted - 2007.05.16 04:49:00 -
[31]
How do the mentioned probability multipliers on the decrypters stack? I saw somewhere that the base chance of inventing ships is 15%, and after 6/6 failed ship jobs with test reports, it does seem to be much lower than 3/5 succeeded module jobs with no decrypter. The question is, what skill level is that 15% chance with ( I have 4/4/4 ) and how does that stack with the decrypters?
If they multiply doesn't that mean the -60% chance +9 runs decrypter would give you only a 6% success rate inventing ships? So wouldn't you be an idiot to use anything other than the +30% chance one?
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Ittey
Rayden Industries
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Posted - 2007.05.16 06:30:00 -
[32]
You have to factor in how much more money are you going to be able to make with those extra runs. If you are inventing hulks then you may be willing to take a 4% success rate over a 10% because when you get that success you get 10 runs instead of 5, or 1 with no decryptors.
And what success rate skill 4/4/4 or any other level is still unknown, but there are getting enough samples that it will get more and more accurate.
----------------------------------------------
My invention guide: here |
Qual
Gallente
Cornexant Research
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Posted - 2007.05.16 12:59:00 -
[33]
Noticed you where looking for info on negtive ME as well, I did that formula some time ago here.
"The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf |
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Zhuge Liang
Forum Moderator
Interstellar Services Department
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Posted - 2007.05.16 15:07:00 -
[34]
Good stuff, sticked with an unholy amount of glue.
Quick! To the Banmobile! |
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Gaogan
Gallente
Solar Storm
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Posted - 2007.05.16 23:57:00 -
[35]
5 runs at 10% is better than 10 runs at 4% hands down. The question is, what are the actual odds you get after the decrypters are applied on top of your skills?
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Aykido
Gallente
Lobster of Babel
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Posted - 2007.05.17 01:12:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Aykido on 17/05/2007 01:11:13
A statistical sample is around 1000 identical invention attempts, needs to be repeated with different skill levels, decryptors etc.
Lots of work
And still you'd have a small chance that you would get a wrong/skewed result.
Furthermore, the devs seem to have tweaked chances a few times since invention became possible. And it is possible that they implement new tweaking first on Sisi, or at least that they sometimes do.
So this is going to take a while.
Selling PERFECT PRINTS of 674 of the 730 seeded T1 BPOs: Ships, modules, rigs, drones, ammo, probes, components and capital mods, drones & ammo. (Cap Ships, Cap Components and Outposts 2007/2008) |
Dominique Vasilkovsky
Techmart Industries
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Posted - 2007.05.17 11:58:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Gaogan
So wouldn't you be an idiot to use anything other than the +30% chance one?
Possibly.
There are two approches for ship invention:
High probability / high cost
Max run BPC
Ship as meta item
+30% 4-run decryptor
Each attempt cost a lot, and you have 20-25% chance to get a 5 run BPC
Low probability / low cost
1-run BPC
-60% 9-run decryptor
Each attempt is really cheap so you can do quite a few more attempts compared to the one above. You have 8-11% chance to get a 9-run BPC.
It's up to you which approach you want to follow but I have now invented 12 9-run ship BPCs in 111 attempts.
Btw, my record is 24 consecutive fails so your 6 fails is just a bad start.
Signature
Your signature has been removed due to a lack of EVE related content. -Darth Patches
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Kdah
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Posted - 2007.05.17 14:42:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Kdah on 17/05/2007 14:41:02
Ittey, your formula for number of runs produced seems to be incorrect.
You say it's:
Runs = max(1;Round.Down(ActualRunsInputBPC/MaxRunsInputBPC*MaxRunsOutputBPC + DecryptorBonusRuns))
Shouldn't the DecryptorBonusRuns be outside the parenthesis?
When you give the example, you put it outside of the parenthesis:
Runs = max(1;Round.Down(1000/10*1000)) + 4
And, in that example you have the order of the variables wrong. It should be:
Runs = max(1;Round.Down(1000/1000*10)) + 4
Also, if what Dominique says above is true, then your Max() function is wrong. If the Max() were correct, then the least number of runs you could get on a BPC with no decryptor would be 1. Max(1,anything-below-1) = 1
And yet Dominique says that when she uses the 9-Bonus-Run decryptor with a minimum run BPC, she gets only 9 runs on the resulting invented T2 BPC. That would indicate that the Max() function isn't working.
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Kdah
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Posted - 2007.05.17 14:51:00 -
[39]
Ok, I think I know what the problem is. The formula should read:
Runs = max(1;Round.Down(ActualRunsInputBPC/MaxRunsInputBPC*MaxRunsOutputBPC) + DecryptorBonusRuns)
That makes sure that you always end up with at least one run, but if you use a decryptor with bonus runs and a low-run BPC, you can end up with only the bonus runs on the resulting BPC.
Your example should then read:
Runs = max(1;Round.Down(1000/1000*10) + 4)
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Qual
Gallente
Cornexant Research
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Posted - 2007.05.17 21:26:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Kdah
Ok, I think I know what the problem is. The formula should read:
Runs = max(1;Round.Down(ActualRunsInputBPC/MaxRunsInputBPC*MaxRunsOutputBPC) + DecryptorBonusRuns)
That makes sure that you always end up with at least one run, but if you use a decryptor with bonus runs and a low-run BPC, you can end up with only the bonus runs on the resulting BPC.
Your example should then read:
Runs = max(1;Round.Down(1000/1000*10) + 4)
I guess I am to blame for that error. And you are of course right. Good catch!
"The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf |
Lady Rachel
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Posted - 2007.05.22 13:58:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Lady Rachel on 22/05/2007 13:57:17
someone has a list where is described to the several the date interfacewho invention can make?
example
esoteric data interface: all missile lounchers, ballistic control sistem, all railguns,à.
tnx
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Gaogan
Gallente
Solar Storm
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Posted - 2007.05.23 01:47:00 -
[42]
How the hell are you supposed to make money inventing ships when you fail 90% of the attempts? Especially ones larger than frigs that take a lot of data cores? Isn't it bad enough that you only get a 1 run bpc out of it, and they take a lot of cores? Why should they also have a horrible chance of success?
Take occators, which are still fairly high price items. At 8 data cores per attempt, you are looking at an approximate cost of 30 million isk per attempt. If it takes 10 tries to get a 4 run bpc, that's a per run cost of 75 million isk, which is about what they sell for, which is at least 3 times what they should cost.
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Dominique Vasilkovsky
Techmart Industries
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Posted - 2007.05.23 08:58:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Gaogan
How the hell are you supposed to make money inventing ships when you fail 90% of the attempts? Especially ones larger than frigs that take a lot of data cores? Isn't it bad enough that you only get a 1 run bpc out of it, and they take a lot of cores? Why should they also have a horrible chance of success?
Take occators, which are still fairly high price items. At 8 data cores per attempt, you are looking at an approximate cost of 30 million isk per attempt. If it takes 10 tries to get a 4 run bpc, that's a per run cost of 75 million isk, which is about what they sell for, which is at least 3 times what they should cost.
With the best chance decryptor you should have about 25% chance to get a 4-5 run bpc depending if you use max run BPC or not.
From personal experience of inventing Hulks, 111 runs of Covetor BPCs became 108 runs of Hulk BPCs using the max run decryptor. That means if you do enough inventions the Occators will cost 30-35M per run to invent.
Signature approved by Eldo |
Ittey
Rayden Industries
|
Posted - 2007.05.24 22:01:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Zhuge Liang
Good stuff, sticked with an unholy amount of glue.
Yay, my first sticky thread here.
Just a small update this time, fixed the typo in the Runs formula and added negative ME to the advanced page.
Originally by: Qual
Noticed you where looking for info on negtive ME as well, I did that formula some time ago here.
Added.
Originally by: Kdah
Your example should then read:
Runs = max(1;Round.Down(1000/1000*10) + 4)
Fixed, good catch indeed.
That is pretty much it, will be a while before I can make another edit so hope this will do.
----------------------------------------------
My invention guide: here |
Chrome Ozone
Serenity Inc
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Posted - 2007.05.25 16:59:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Kdah
Your example should then read:
Runs = max(1;Round.Down(1000/1000*10) + 4)
Fixed, good catch indeed.
Ok, I'm struggling to understand here. I took a 7 run ferox bpc, and with a +4 decryptor, got a 6 run nighthawk print. By the math from the guide it should look like
Runs = max(1;Round.Down(7/15*1)+4)= 4(after rounding)
I'm curious if anyone else has ever tried running a non-max bpc...something I did notice, if I switched the division, i.e. (15*1/7)+4 you actually get 6 after rounding down, BUT put in a max run so (15*1/15)+ 4, and you get 5. I'm throughly confused.
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Frigid
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Posted - 2007.05.28 15:55:00 -
[46]
Good stuff!
One comment, you say in the skills section that the starship engineering skills are under Mechanic. Not so. All the datacore skills are science skills.
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Phedra Kane
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Posted - 2007.05.28 17:02:00 -
[47]
so, on current economics, I think i've worked out that unless you want to invent very high value items, like T2 cruisers/BCs, then its not worth the effort. I was looking at inventing TII ship modules, retailing for 3-4m each. However, besides the cost of datacores, with the encryption skill going at 200mill, there is no chance of gaining a profit in any reasonable timescale.
Is this conclusion correct?
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Anopheli
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2007.05.28 18:18:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Phedra Kane
so, on current economics, I think i've worked out that unless you want to invent very high value items, like T2 cruisers/BCs, then its not worth the effort. I was looking at inventing TII ship modules, retailing for 3-4m each. However, besides the cost of datacores, with the encryption skill going at 200mill, there is no chance of gaining a profit in any reasonable timescale.
Is this conclusion correct?
Not true. I've run up about a few hundred million profit in around a week. Modules have a much higher success rate than ships, and the key is not using decryptors on low value items, and seeking out things you can manufacture easily. Also avoiding modules that use Mechanical Engineering cores, as that's a good way to start flushing mountains of cash.
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Sir Bart
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.05.28 18:30:00 -
[49]
Why do you need to create a max run BPC? I thought BPO's could be used... surely a BPO doesn't give worse results than a max run BPC?
-Bart
CCP: please fix the asteroids in the new regions.
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Hafthor
Gallente
The Fated
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Posted - 2007.05.28 23:01:00 -
[50]
Any chance of adding RP's needed per Datacore info into this? I've been scouring the forums for this info but failed miserably.
--------------------------
"Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far" |
Sir Bart
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.05.29 05:37:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Hafthor
Any chance of adding RP's needed per Datacore info into this? I've been scouring the forums for this info but failed miserably.
100 rp for ship ones and 50 rp for the rest.
CCP: please fix the asteroids in the new regions.
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Vanye Inovske
Two Brothers Mining Corp.
The Sundering
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Posted - 2007.05.31 03:37:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Sir Bart
Originally by: Hafthor
Any chance of adding RP's needed per Datacore info into this? I've been scouring the forums for this info but failed miserably.
100 rp for ship ones and 50 rp for the rest.
Graviton Physics is 100/core as well. There may be others, I have no idea.
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Chruker
|
Posted - 2007.06.04 11:26:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Lady Rachel
Edited by: Lady Rachel on 22/05/2007 13:57:17
someone has a list where is described to the several the date interfacewho invention can make?
example
esoteric data interface: all missile lounchers, ballistic control sistem, all railguns,à.
tnx
You can see it in my item database. Ex. http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/item.php?typeID=25555
----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online -----
Top wishes:
- No daily downtime
- Faster training on sisi
- Updated data export
- Speedup IGB table rendering |
Mycroft Kencyrath
Gallente
Starjacker Heavy Industries
|
Posted - 2007.06.04 22:33:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Mycroft Kencyrath on 04/06/2007 22:35:34
Edited by: Mycroft Kencyrath on 04/06/2007 22:35:00
Very Nice.
"Are you an angel? Aw, I'm just kidding. That's the worst line I've ever used. Hope some poor kid doesn't start using it."
-Atton Rand
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Magwua
Amarr
Rayden Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.05 23:14:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Sir Bart
Why do you need to create a max run BPC? I thought BPO's could be used... surely a BPO doesn't give worse results than a max run BPC?
-Bart
You cannot use a BPO to invent t2 goods, you must use a t1 bpc.
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Dr Bernard
|
Posted - 2007.06.12 20:20:00 -
[56]
Great work.
Just 1 clarification. The MaxRunsOutputBPC you mention for ships is 1 and modules 10. Are there additional stats for other bp types ?
If it is the case that it is always 1 for ships (ignoring the decryptor bonus), why would you ever need to use max runs when making your BPO copy ?
Thx
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Risar Surtr
|
Posted - 2007.06.13 02:32:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Risar Surtr on 13/06/2007 02:32:21
Originally by: Dr Bernard
Edited by: Dr Bernard on 12/06/2007 20:26:09
Great work.
Just 1 clarification. The MaxRunsOutputBPC you mention for ships is 1 and modules 10. Are there additional stats for other bp types ?
If it is the case that it is always 1 for ships then if I invent without decryptors, I only need to create 1 run inpt bpcs ? If I use a decryptor then I should always use max runs on the input bpc otherwise I will essentially lose 1 run in the output ?
Thx
I'm sorta confused about this myself honestly. Is the max number of runs on a "invented" T2 bpc really so small ? It seems like in order to "invent" a T2 frigate or HAC (for example) that your going to have to spend 30-40m just to get a result, and a 1 run result at that ? After the cost of supplies to build the silly thing your not going to see much (if any) profit it would seem. Its almost like just doing bulk T1 manufacturing is more profitable for the time spent.
Its almost like invention isnt meant to be a way to make isk, but more of a way to create the things you need for your own use.
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luain
|
Posted - 2007.06.19 15:35:00 -
[58]
2nd attempt ship invention used 1 Vexor Ship, 1x 5 run Vexor BPC, 1x Test Reports Decryptor and 8x each Mech Eng,& Gallente Starship Eng Data Cores and got a 1 run Ishtar BPC....Was told T1 item did not improve results so repeated attempt 3 times without Vexor Ship...Result No Success...then tried twice more using Vexor Ship as optional item...no success....Question does the T1 Item have any effect on result?
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Trak Cranker
Feral Tendency
Ratel Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.06.21 09:28:00 -
[59]
It would be very strange if it didn't.
As you can see the exact formula is still up in the air, but I can hardly imagine that the metalevel of the T1 item does not play into it.
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Tamori Kachimasu
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Posted - 2007.06.21 13:28:00 -
[60]
After some tries, I have following results (twice so much) :
Type : Frigate
Input : 30run BPC
Basetype item : T1 Frigate
Decryptor : None
Result : _1_ run BPC.
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Kaven Kantrix
Two Brothers Mining Corp.
The Sundering
|
Posted - 2007.06.21 15:18:00 -
[61]
Is the maxrunoutput for drones and ammo also 10? I was hoping it would be a lot more...
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Aykido
Gallente
Lobster of Babel
|
Posted - 2007.06.21 17:38:00 -
[62]
I think the max run on output BPCs should be equal to max run copy of a T2 BPO.
Selling PERFECT PRINTS of 674 of the 730 seeded T1 BPOs: Ships, modules, rigs, drones, ammo, probes, components and capital mods, drones & ammo. (Cap Ships, Cap Components and Outposts 2007/2008) |
Bambi
|
Posted - 2007.06.23 11:48:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Kaven Kantrix
Is the maxrunoutput for drones and ammo also 10? I was hoping it would be a lot more...
I have had unmodified success with cruise missiles, which gave the standard ME:-4 PE:-4 10 Runs. But you must keep in mind that 1 run of T2 missiles is 5000 units. Not done drones yet, just waiting for D.T to finish and I'll be bunging some Hornets in for invention.
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Qual
Gallente
Cornexant Research
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Posted - 2007.06.27 18:43:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Kaven Kantrix
Is the maxrunoutput for drones and ammo also 10? I was hoping it would be a lot more...
My sentry drones gave 10 runs, so for drones thats a yes as well for drones (at least big ones...).
"The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf |
Yulada
Amarr
Hedion University
|
Posted - 2007.06.29 14:58:00 -
[65]
If you buy an interface do you need to buy a new one each time you try to invent off a T1 BPO or does it last forever???
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QuakeGod
|
Posted - 2007.07.01 01:15:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Yulada
If you buy an interface do you need to buy a new one each time you try to invent off a T1 BPO or does it last forever???
The interface will last forever. Only the BPC, datacores, base item and decryptor are used up.
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GraylStorm
Gallente
Asgard Industries
Safe And Fun Environment
|
Posted - 2007.07.06 13:36:00 -
[67]
Is this Right ?
* Electronics II
* Engineering II
* Electronics Upgrades V
* Science V
* Hacking II
* Racial Encryption Methods
To Invent, you NEED Electronics Upgrades V at V ???
I mean, I can understand the Racial encryption to be high, the 2x science fields that the Invention job will need, but Electronics Upgrades V at V ???
Is this confirmed ?
Question 2:
Having Hacking, racial encryption at V, will that help the job in any way, or just the afore-mentionned 2x fields of study (ex: MECH and ELECT. Engineering..) + Racial encryption at V will help your chances of success ?
and yes, I have read aeverything I could find on this, no answer jumps out at me
Can't wait to find out
thx again
jean
Gallente Federation Select Circle member
Duvolle Labs and Creodron Corp. Contractor
Builder of Fine Freighters
Sankkassen System, Asgard Industries Director
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QuakeGod
|
Posted - 2007.07.08 22:46:00 -
[68]
Originally by: GraylStorm
To Invent, you NEED Electronics Upgrades V at V ???
Electronics Upgrades V is a pre-requisite for Hacking. Hacking is a pre-requisite for racial encryption skills. So yes, Electronics Upgrades V is a must.
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Meau
|
Posted - 2007.07.11 20:54:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Meau on 11/07/2007 20:53:47
About max output runs of an invention jobs.
Till last patch one could calculate max possible runs of a bpc by dividing copy time by copy time(you per 1 run, adjusted for skills) or by starting a copyjob if a bpo or bpc is handy(does work for bpcs).
CCP seems to have made it much easier now, as the new strange value "production limit" on bp info seems to be limit of runs on a single copy.
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Aerick Dawn
Gallente
The Arrow Project
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2007.07.12 15:40:00 -
[70]
can you accidentally destroy an original BPO by putting it into the invention process by mistake, or does the game not let you?
__________________
If I'm in a fair fight, i've done something terribly wrong. |
Trak Cranker
Serenity Inc
|
Posted - 2007.07.13 07:53:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Aerick Dawn
can you accidentally destroy an original BPO by putting it into the invention process by mistake, or does the game not let you?
It will destroy YOU! if you try and use a BPO.
(I mean you specifically. Aerick. You will die if someone uses a BPO in the invention process)
Either that or it don't let you. Can't remember.
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Aerick Dawn
Gallente
The Arrow Project
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.07.13 14:25:00 -
[72]
that would explain why I die alot. :)
Thanks Trak :)
__________________
If I'm in a fair fight, i've done something terribly wrong. |
Shinji Seto
Minmatar
Los Gordos
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Posted - 2007.07.15 13:53:00 -
[73]
Thanks for the great guide! Got all my skills lvled POS built and my first batch of stabber BPCs in the lab last night! Hopefull when I get home from work tonight at least one of my slots will have produced a Vagabond BPC. Thanks again great guide!
"Outlaw" This was the name given to those who roam the universe with only his freedom as his guide. |
GuruJ
Gallente
Lynx Frontier Inc.
Sparta Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.07.16 17:35:00 -
[74]
Can you put up what each type of data core invents.
I never won my T2 BPO cash machine so I have an @ssload of electromagnetic physics.
Problem is other then rails I don't know what I can build.
Also plz reiterate that to build ships you need two specialized skills in Science.
thanks!
"Fancy ships, big guns, and expensive things; what about your soul does it Bling Bling?"
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Mephistophilis
hirr
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.07.17 07:52:00 -
[75]
Great guide! I've just started invention last night, checked my jobs this morning!
I got 3 of 4 bpc's with no dycriptor but good meta item (1mn MWD)
Then 0 of 4 with dycriptor but just tech 1 version of the item :( (10mn MWD)
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Sathamarid
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Posted - 2007.07.17 19:26:00 -
[76]
Here's how it's gone for me so far.
10 attempts at Cap Rech II. Both skills at 2. No base item. All failed.
2 more attempts at Cap Rech II with a 300k base item (f-b210 Nominal ?). Both succeeded.
Many attempts at T2 Armor Tanking gear, about 55% success rate, base item was also in that 300k price range. No decryptor for any of the jobs.
Can anyone explain to me how many runs I can actually get out of these? It said it was 1 run and 100 units (I think). Does that mean that I can install the job with this BPC once and I darn well better make 100 of em? Or can I do multiple installs until I run out 100 of the item? Is Confusing.
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Aira Phlux
Convergent
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.07.23 11:24:00 -
[77]
Just a point on SHIP invention.
If I'm using the "number of runs" formula correctly then it shows that there is no point using a max run BPC for SHIP invention as the max output figure is "1". Only by the use of a decryptor can this figure be increased.
Assuming this is correct (and hasn't already been mentioned somewhere that I've completely overlooked) then I think this should be pointed out. In the guide, there is a sweeping statement that you should "always use a max run BPC" - this would appear to be a noteworthy exception especially time wise.
Can anyone confirm I'm not talking out my butt ?
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Trak Cranker
Serenity Inc
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Posted - 2007.07.23 16:12:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Trak Cranker on 23/07/2007 16:13:15
Originally by: Aira Phlux
Can anyone confirm I'm not talking out my butt ?
I think we can confirm that you are not doing so. :)
And it has been pointed out many times in different threads.
Note: If you use a max run bpc you get one more run, when using run modifiying decryptors - compared to using a 1 run.
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Mean Molly
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Posted - 2007.07.25 14:42:00 -
[79]
Does anyone know how much diffrence it makes to include a T1 ship when inventing?
Is it in the range 1% more likely or 10% more likely or what?
Also how much does the skill impact inventing? It there any use of training Encryption to level 4 instead of 3?
And why cant CCP make some official information of formulaes or guides about the diffrent manufacturing/refining/inventing stuff. We always seem to have to figure out this stuff on our own, looking thru heaps of forums threads. This info should really be presented better and more coherently ingame!
---
Live and learn, die and learn more!
http://www.dukefoss.com/eve/ |
Mean Molly
|
Posted - 2007.07.28 18:29:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Chrome Ozone
Originally by: Kdah
Your example should then read:
Runs = max(1;Round.Down(1000/1000*10) + 4)
Fixed, good catch indeed.
Ok, I'm struggling to understand here. I took a 7 run ferox bpc, and with a +4 decryptor, got a 6 run nighthawk print. By the math from the guide it should look like
Runs = max(1;Round.Down(7/15*1)+4)= 4(after rounding)
I'm curious if anyone else has ever tried running a non-max bpc...something I did notice, if I switched the division, i.e. (15*1/7)+4 you actually get 6 after rounding down, BUT put in a max run so (15*1/15)+ 4, and you get 5. I'm throughly confused.
Since you got 6 runs it must be the formula that isnt complete. Atleast for ships.
Maybe it also add a chance to get 1 more run if you use an item, and higher bpc run number.
exs:
Runs =
max(1;Round.Down(7/15*1)+4)= 4(after rounding)
+
Chance(0.15* (7/15) ) !7% Chance of 1 more
+
Chance(0.15* Itemclass) !15% Chance of getting even 1 more if u used a ferox. (Itemclass 5 gives 75%)
Ofcourse this is just me guessing, and can only be confirmed by ppl getting more runs than they should. Getting both extras would only happen on rare occations.
My 2c
---
Live and learn, die and learn more!
http://www.dukefoss.com/eve/ |
Lucai
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 07:40:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Lucai on 30/07/2007 07:42:44
Originally by: Mean Molly
Ok, I'm struggling to understand here. I took a 7 run ferox bpc, and with a +4 decryptor, got a 6 run nighthawk print. By the math from the guide it should look like
Runs = max(1;Round.Down(7/15*1)+4)= 4(after rounding)
I'm curious if anyone else has ever tried running a non-max bpc...something I did notice, if I switched the division, i.e. (15*1/7)+4 you actually get 6 after rounding down, BUT put in a max run so (15*1/15)+ 4, and you get 5. I'm throughly confused.
Since you got 6 runs it must be the formula that isnt complete. Atleast for ships.
Maybe it also add a chance to get 1 more run if you use an item, and higher bpc run number.
exs:
Runs =
max(1;Round.Down(7/15*1)+4)= 4(after rounding)
+
Chance(0.15* (7/15) ) !7% Chance of 1 more
+
Chance(0.15* Itemclass) !15% Chance of getting even 1 more if u used a ferox. (Itemclass 5 gives 75%)
Ofcourse this is just me guessing, and can only be confirmed by ppl getting more runs than they should. Getting both extras would only happen on rare occations.
My 2c
Things like this seem to turn up from time to time.
If there is an extra mechanic, it must be either extremely rare or attributed to using a base item.
My 500+ jobs of ship invention without a baseitem never had one extra run, not a single time Oo.
Just to be sure, what you are telling me is you got one more output run by using a non-maxed copy?
Ergo: Maxrun -> you got 5
7 run -> you got 6
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Aira Phlux
Convergent
Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2007.07.30 11:29:00 -
[82]
Just referring to my post a few replies back; a friend suggested to me that using a max run BPC (as oppossed to a single run) on during ship invention improves the chances of success. This suggestion was based upon little experience but I'm curious as to whether anyone else agrees or disagrees with the statement. Perahps someone who has done a great many ship inventions could comment.
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Maggie Thatcher
|
Posted - 2007.08.05 05:14:00 -
[83]
If an an item has a meta level of 0, is there no point in using it?
As in example if inventing cap recharger 2's would using a CPR 1 in the process be worthless as it has a meta of zero?
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SephiriotH
REUNI0N
Red Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.08.08 03:03:00 -
[84]
Seems ship's invention is bugged after all those patches :
Completed the invention on Condor bpc max-run basis. No matter what decryptor I used - received only 1 run t2 bpc. My corp mate have the same issue with Sabre's invention. My skills are : 4/4/4 (Caldari Encryption/Caldari Starship/Mechanical Eng.) seems something damn strange...
Remember : With a bad word and good torpedo you are always hurting more then with a bad word alone. |
Hal Gallentine
|
Posted - 2007.08.08 23:36:00 -
[85]
Thanks for the very informative guide, Ittey! I'm training toward the invention/production profession and your guide really clarified the subject for me.
I have a question regarding the racial encryption skills. Why the skillbooks for them are so rare and expensive? Where do they come from? Is there a way to get them w/o paying 300 M ISK for them?
Thanks, HG
|
SephiriotH
REUNI0N
Red Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.08.10 05:00:00 -
[86]
Yes, there is. It's a very rare drop from archeology objects in archeology hidden complexes.
Remember : With a bad word and good torpedo you are always hurting more then with a bad word alone. |
Sinder Ohm
Infinite Improbability Inc
Mostly Harmless
|
Posted - 2007.08.27 08:53:00 -
[87]
Hi
Firstly nice guide! Thankyou for sharing this with us.
Ok now to the question, my alt is skilling up for invention but hasnt quite got there yet, so in the meantime I am copying BPC's like a mad man and a corp mate of mine is doing the invention for me. I started with 425 rails (max run BPC), he said I should do max run BPCs all the time, but in the same breath said that you need a decriptor if you are doing max runs Bpcs, I am confused.
Next: is ship invention still not working properly?
Thanks
Sinder.
Originally by: Karanth
Wimps play empire. Real men play in 0.0. Hardcore masochists live out in drone space.
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Halafian
Amarr Friendship Society
|
Posted - 2007.08.28 11:10:00 -
[88]
I'm sure I missed it, but is there a matrix somewhere of the various modules and the datacore types required to invent them?
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Jeats Cheats
Minmatar
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2007.08.31 15:51:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Halafian
I'm sure I missed it, but is there a matrix somewhere of the various modules and the datacore types required to invent them?
Yes there is, try the first page and the very first post
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Redjustice
|
Posted - 2007.09.02 14:00:00 -
[90]
 I'm sure I missed it some ware but wht do you get when you invent i'm not just refering to a tech 2 bpc but is it just a base bech 2 or are there higher quality tech 2 items in some cases tech 1 item apper to be better or at least more profitable like a 150mm proto rail gun for nubes like me anyway. In the end i'm just trying to determin potential carear paths. In a lot of cases i'd prefer to have high end tech 1 BP's which i dont know how to obtaine or havent found than a low quality tech 2.
Please any help would be greatly appreciated from all you long term hardend vets.
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aldarrin
|
Posted - 2007.09.05 02:19:00 -
[91]
Someone let me know if I'm doing something wrong here.
I've been trying to invent on max run Condor BPCs and only the first two succeeded. 10 tries later, all others have failed. All jobs used Condors for base items and no decryptors (would ruin the profit margin).
Skills: Cadari Encryption / Caldari Starship Eng / Mech Eng are all trained to 4 (training up to 5 atm).
Is this really the normal results?
--
Flame on. |
Ittey
Rayden Industries
|
Posted - 2007.09.05 21:39:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Redjustice
I'm sure I missed it some ware but wht do you get when you invent i'm not just refering to a tech 2 bpc but is it just a base bech 2 or are there higher quality tech 2 items in some cases tech 1 item apper to be better or at least more profitable like a 150mm proto rail gun for nubes like me anyway. In the end i'm just trying to determin potential carear paths. In a lot of cases i'd prefer to have high end tech 1 BP's which i dont know how to obtaine or havent found than a low quality tech 2.
Please any help would be greatly appreciated from all you long term hardend vets.
There is only one tech 2 version, there aren't different meta levels of them. You can only get tech 1 bp's for the base item, the named modules are loot only.
Originally by: aldarrin
Someone let me know if I'm doing something wrong here.
I've been trying to invent on max run Condor BPCs and only the first two succeeded. 10 tries later, all others have failed. All jobs used Condors for base items and no decryptors (would ruin the profit margin).
Skills: Cadari Encryption / Caldari Starship Eng / Mech Eng are all trained to 4 (training up to 5 atm).
Is this really the normal results?
All the numbers I have heard say ship invention is around 25%, so while you are a bit low it isn't unreasonable. 12 jobs is a tiny statistical sample.
----------------------------------------------
My invention guide: here |
k Rose
Aeon Interstellar Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.09.06 04:06:00 -
[93]
Warning
Before you spend countless ISK and TIME, and your hard earn cash "Think Again" This isn't good idea for starter corps. It's defiantly a gamble
Is 3run production (that cost millions of isk worth it?)
Save your isk and buy the BPO!
|
Plundaar
|
Posted - 2007.09.07 20:58:00 -
[94]
Originally by: k Rose
Warning
Before you spend countless ISK and TIME, and your hard earn cash "Think Again" This isn't good idea for starter corps. It's defiantly a gamble
Is 3run production (that cost millions of isk worth it?)
Save your isk and buy the BPO!
Buy what BPO if it's T2? |
Hawk Cromwell
|
Posted - 2007.09.08 04:58:00 -
[95]
Any Ideas as to how the "Draftsman" implant (slot 9) effects Invention? Chances of success only? or does it effect ME/PE/Runs?? |
Z010
|
Posted - 2007.09.08 09:13:00 -
[96]
Does ME/PE of BPC affect chances of success in any way? Or am I being foolish researching BPO's to 100 ME 50 PE before starting copying.
p.s. I realize from reading above that they no affect on runs/PE/ME of the "successful" invention, but I am still wondering what the factors are getting even a one-run BPC of anything.
skill/skill/skill ME/PE i.e. (sci/sci/enc ME/PE) weighting factors. |
Taizu Lilith
Minmatar
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Electus Matari
|
Posted - 2007.09.09 05:02:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Hawk Cromwell
Any Ideas as to how the "Draftsman" implant (slot 9) effects Invention? Chances of success only? or does it effect ME/PE/Runs??
I can't find this in game?
|
Ittey
Rayden Industries
|
Posted - 2007.09.09 08:21:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Z010
Does ME/PE of BPC affect chances of success in any way? Or am I being foolish researching BPO's to 100 ME 50 PE before starting copying.
p.s. I realize from reading above that they no affect on runs/PE/ME of the "successful" invention, but I am still wondering what the factors are getting even a one-run BPC of anything.
skill/skill/skill ME/PE i.e. (sci/sci/enc ME/PE) weighting factors.
Only your skills and decryptors affect the chances of a successful job. The PE/ME have no effect whatsoever on the final blueprint, either in terms of quality or of getting one.
----------------------------------------------
My invention guide: here |
Purple Roids
Caldari
Invent0r Corp
|
Posted - 2007.09.11 13:40:00 -
[99]
Thanks a lot for you guide, it was a great help to get my invention started. I don't know any other place where you get such a complete write-up on invention :-)
But after my first few successful jobs, I think I have found an error on your advanced section, in the part about the ME influence on building the items:
Originally by: Invention Guide
Waste = (-ME - 1)/10
The following table lists the ME, wastage and the constant to multiply the base mineral use by
ME Wastage Constant
-4 0.3 1.3
-5 0.4 1.4
-6 0.5 1.5
-7 0.6 1.6
-8 0.7 1.7
That seems to be wrong, at least for the BPCs I get from different setups. I'm getting a waste factor of 0.5 with ME-4 and 0.9 with ME-8. The formula is not working for my BPCs, unless I exchange the '-' with a '+':
Waste = (-ME + 1) / 10
With that I get:
Waste = (-(-8) + 1) / 10 = 0.9 and
Waste = (-(-4) + 1) / 10 = 0.5
which is correct according to my BPCs. The values in the table are wrong then and should look like this:
ME Wastage Constant
-4 0.5 1.5
-5 0.6 1.6
-6 0.7 1.7
-7 0.8 1.8
-8 0.9 1.9
I just started inventing a few days ago, so I can only tell these figures from the one item I have invented so far, but the influence of negative ME levels should be the same on all items: My item has a base need of 14.508 Pyerite and I get these values on my BPCs (works as well for the other minerals of course):
- ME-8: 27.565 Pyerite --> 14.508 * 1.9 = 27.565,2
- ME-4: 21.762 Pyerite --> 14.508 * 1.5 = 21.762
This seems to perfectly fit the formula above.
|
Sfagnum
|
Posted - 2007.09.12 08:41:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Ittey
MaxRunsOutputBPC: 1 for ships, 10 for modules.
mb it can be "The production limits of output blueprint"?
and it should be:
Runs = max(1;Round.Down(ActualRunsInputBPC/MaxRunsInputBPC*MaxRunsOutputBPC/10 + DecryptorBonusRuns))
|
Purple Roids
Caldari
Invent0r Corp
|
Posted - 2007.09.12 18:38:00 -
[101]
Ok, after I've read Akita T's posting about invention here, I see that your ME formula is actually not wrong, but outdated ... According to Akita there was a bug in the wastage calculation with negative ME levels, which generated exactly the values you currently have in your table. That bug seems to have been fixed before I started to invent, as all my BPCs are calculating wastage with 'my' formula from above :-)
|
Mighty Baz
HUSARIA
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.09.14 11:02:00 -
[102]
success rate of invention formula - new point of view
skill lvl 1 = 5%
...
skill lvl 5 = 25%
odds= skill1 (lvl)*skill2 (lvl)*skill3 (lvl)* decryptor (chance)* (max available runs/max used runs)
for example:
mechanical lvl4: (20%)
amarr decryption lvl4: (20%)
amarr starship lvl4: (20%)
war startegon: 1,3 (30%)
max available/max used - 10/15=0.6667
odds = 1,2 x 1,2 * 1,2 * 1,3 * 0,667 = 1,497,
so it means the result of bpc of t2 is 49,7%
______________________________________________
based on legendary XVII century Polish winged cavalry |
Sainna
Minmatar
Brotherhood of the Void
|
Posted - 2007.09.17 20:58:00 -
[103]
OK, after reading most of this--I'm a bit confused. I wanted to do invention and I trained the skills for invention...or so I thought.
I've been told that I did and didn't need Minmatar Encryption and I don't see it on any of the stuff for required skills.
So do I need it or not?
If so, why can I not find it on the market? Is this one of those skills that I have to spend half my life exploring in low-sec space? I did see a guy selling it on the market for 250mil but that is just ridiculous. If that is what I face to do invention, then forget it.
Drill Instructor: "If your nature didn't lead you to trample everyone in your path with vindictive glee, you might be tolerable. |
Purple Roids
Caldari
Invent0r Corp
|
Posted - 2007.09.17 23:59:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Sainna
I've been told that I did and didn't need Minmatar Encryption and I don't see it on any of the stuff for required skills.
So do I need it or not?
If so, why can I not find it on the market? Is this one of those skills that I have to spend half my life exploring in low-sec space? I did see a guy selling it on the market for 250mil but that is just ridiculous. If that is what I face to do invention, then forget it.
That totally depends on the item you want to invent. Just check the blueprint of the tech1 item at the market, Bill of Materials --> Invention. That should list all skills you will need to invent this specific item. As for the price of the encryption skills, yes, they are quite expensive. But you might want to check one of the market hubs, this is where you can get them at a 'reasonable' price. But anyways, just take a look at Ittey's Guide, it explains it all very well :-)
|
Ittey
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
|
Posted - 2007.09.18 04:35:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Purple Roids
which is correct according to my BPCs. The values in the table are wrong then and should look like this:
ME Wastage Constant
-4 0.5 1.5
-5 0.6 1.6
-6 0.7 1.7
-7 0.8 1.8
-8 0.9 1.9
Yeah CCP changed this shortly after I posted my guide and haven't gotten around to fixing it. Not the only problem that has been pointed out to me.
Originally by: Sainna
OK, after reading most of this--I'm a bit confused. I wanted to do invention and I trained the skills for invention...or so I thought.
I've been told that I did and didn't need Minmatar Encryption and I don't see it on any of the stuff for required skills.
So do I need it or not?
If so, why can I not find it on the market? Is this one of those skills that I have to spend half my life exploring in low-sec space? I did see a guy selling it on the market for 250mil but that is just ridiculous. If that is what I face to do invention, then forget it.
You only need Minmatar Encryption Methods if you intend to invent things that require it, e.g. microwarpdrives etc. And yes the skill does actually cost several hundred million.
----------------------------------------------
My invention guide: here |
Ittey
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
|
Posted - 2007.09.18 05:25:00 -
[106]
UPDATE: (Finally)
Fixed the max run formula to be much more readable.
Pictoral guide no longer refers to "Electrical Datacores".
ME/PE tables have been updated to match current Eve universe.
If anything is wrong, or I broke something, don't hesitate to contact me either here or in game.
----------------------------------------------
My invention guide: here |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2007.09.19 07:25:00 -
[107]
Handy invention average profit calculating XLS.
Not my work to begin with, only modified by me (credit given inside), still a work in progress, but close enough.
_
[CNVTF] is recruiting | Char creation guide | Stack-nerfing explained |
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Zzz
|
Posted - 2007.09.21 09:11:00 -
[108]
Updated version, which combines features from both of the above: link
My research services
Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats |
PHPR Wifimoocher
|
Posted - 2007.09.26 03:15:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Ittey
If anything is wrong, or I broke something, don't hesitate to contact me either here or in game.
well i started invention a day or so ago and found your guide to be invaluable.
I did notice though that the metalevel for some T1 items are 0. Is there a point to even using these items? Like in your guide the Ballistic control system 1 has a meta value of 0 on your page and Eve coldfront marker as well. should i just not use the generic T1 items or has this been fixed to show that all t1 generic items have a meta value of 1 now?
|
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Zzz
|
Posted - 2007.09.26 14:59:00 -
[110]
Manufactured T1 items have a meta level of 0. Although it's hard to be sure, it seems that they don't affect invention success rates.
My research services
Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats |
Aykido
Gallente
Lobster of Babel
|
Posted - 2007.09.26 15:54:00 -
[111]
Waste calc table shows 0% waste with ME 0. Should be 10%.
Mobile Warp bubbles have a max of 10 runs, but using a max run BPC does not give a single extra run. Production limit of the T2 variant is 5 runs, and even with +9 run decryptor you only get a 5 run BPC.
In the text above the science skills you call datacores decryptors.
Should have a section on R&D agents, RPs per day, and Datacore costs in terms of RPs.
But the guide is definately getting close to perfect. Good job!
Selling PERFECT PRINTS of every seeded T1 BPO: modules, rigs, drones, ammo and ships (4 ships missing), and most capital modules too! Selling any INVENTED T2 BPC by order! Can build also! |
PHPR Wifimoocher
|
Posted - 2007.09.26 21:29:00 -
[112]
So I would understand it as 10 runs being max for most modules, ships have there own number and mobile warp bubbles along with others have there own max runs the bpc will come out with.
you cant get higher than that amount (unless ccp changes things) but you can increase your chances of getting the max run bpc out of it by doing the following:
using a max run bpc.
- not always 300 runs and can vary. put 99999 in the runs field when making a copy to ensure you're getting the max runs made.
Using a tech 1 base item:
- Meta values apply so use an upgraded one for better success %. the better the item the better the result. as i understand it you can't or the system wont let you use faction or T2 items as the base item.
Using a decypter:
- These range in price and yes prolly not worth it when inventing modules. From reading this thread and my own experiance the cheaper modules don't need a decypter as you will have a good chance of getting max runs without using a decrypter. You can still use one for lowering the ME/PE of the T2 bpc but the cost of the decrypter may not offset the amount you save in material / production time costs.
It looks as though using a decypter on ships would help and be worth the investment.
|
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Zzz
|
Posted - 2007.09.26 23:04:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Aykido
Waste calc table shows 0% waste with ME 0. Should be 10%.
The latest version has corrected the material multipliers in relation to T2 BPO material costs.
Quote:
Mobile Warp bubbles have a max of 10 runs, but using a max run BPC does not give a single extra run. Production limit of the T2 variant is 5 runs, and even with +9 run decryptor you only get a 5 run BPC.
I'm aware of this, but afaik this is the only item that works this way, and I prefer to modify a separate copy of the spreadsheet to deal with it. CCP Chronotis has said that this is in line to be fixed so that one can obtain a 10-run BPC.
Quote:
In the text above the science skills you call datacores decryptors.
This has been corrected in the version linked to above.
Quote:
Should have a section on R&D agents, RPs per day, and Datacore costs in terms of RPs.
It's possible to consume datacores much faster than any one player can produce them; no serious inventor will be able to avoid buying datacores off the market. Adding such a section would be veering dangerously close to the 'minerals I mine myself are free' mindset.
Quote:
In the sample on basic procedure you advice people to create a 300 run copy of Ballistic Control System I, The max runs is 1000 so this will give 3 run T2 BPC instead of a 10 run with a 1000 run BPC.
Are we talking about the same guide?
My research services
Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats |
Aykido
Gallente
Lobster of Babel
|
Posted - 2007.09.29 11:40:00 -
[114]
Tweaking continues, production limit of light and heavy missiles has been adjusted to be in line with other ammo. So they are now also 1500runs.
Old max run copies are no longer max run copies :)
Selling PERFECT PRINTS of every seeded T1 BPO: modules, rigs, drones, ammo and ships (4 ships missing), and most capital modules too! Selling any INVENTED T2 BPC by order! Can build also! |
Ittey
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
|
Posted - 2007.09.29 23:25:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Aykido
Edited by: Aykido on 26/09/2007 15:56:49
Waste calc table shows 0% waste with ME 0. Should be 10%.
Fixed, PE table was wrong too.
Originally by: Aykido
Mobile Warp bubbles have a max of 10 runs, but using a max run BPC does not give a single extra run. Production limit of the T2 variant is 5 runs, and even with +9 run decryptor you only get a 5 run BPC.
Didn't feel the need to put that in the guide since it is going to be changed soon enough. Also not alot of beginners are going to start with those (I think).
Originally by: Aykido
In the text above the science skills you call datacores decryptors.
Fixed.
Originally by: Aykido
Should have a section on R&D agents, RPs per day, and Datacore costs in terms of RPs.
I liked this idea, so now there is a guide to getting your own datacores in the advanced section.
Originally by: Aykido
In the sample on basic procedure you advice people to create a 300 run copy of Ballistic Control System I, The max runs is 1000 so this will give 3 run T2 BPC instead of a 10 run with a 1000 run BPC.
Silly devs changing the game and making my guide obsolete.
Originally by: Aykido
But the guide is definately getting close to perfect. Good job!
Thanks, mostly to the effort of finicky readers much as yourself honestly.
----------------------------------------------
My invention guide: here |
LukeSzkajvoker
|
Posted - 2007.10.09 10:12:00 -
[116]
Hi,
I just want to ask if I'm a matarr character I have much more chance to be successfull in matarr inventions? I mean if I use matarr decryptors (I'm using allways that type which gives me more chance to be success especially assembly instruction, or installation guide if doing caldari invent...) I'm allways successfull in matarr ship invention. But if I use the same type caldari decryptor (installation guide) it's good when I get 1 successfull invention job about 8-10 caldari ship invention job. The matarr and caldari skills are at the same level. Is it a bug with the lottery system or is this the normal way may be there are differenties in the chance incrising by the different faction's dectryptors?
regards
---Luke---
|
Ittey
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
|
Posted - 2007.10.10 06:16:00 -
[117]
Originally by: LukeSzkajvoker
Hi,
I just want to ask if I'm a matarr character I have much more chance to be successfull in matarr inventions? I mean if I use matarr decryptors (I'm using allways that type which gives me more chance to be success especially assembly instruction, or installation guide if doing caldari invent...) I'm allways successfull in matarr ship invention. But if I use the same type caldari decryptor (installation guide) it's good when I get 1 successfull invention job about 8-10 caldari ship invention job. The matarr and caldari skills are at the same level. Is it a bug with the lottery system or is this the normal way may be there are differenties in the chance incrising by the different faction's dectryptors?
regards
---Luke---
No, your race has nothing to do with how successful your invention jobs are. If your matar and caldari skills are the same then the odds are the same, barring different decryptors etc. The difference is either due to stastical annomolies or percieved difference. I know I thought alot different about my jobs before I started recording the numbers.
----------------------------------------------
My invention guide: here |
LukeSzkajvoker
|
Posted - 2007.10.19 08:12:00 -
[118]
Well, statistic and chance is just one thing. But my last 30+ caldari invention job was failed while matarr was success. I think it's over the statistics...
|
Big Socks
Amarr
Viziam
|
Posted - 2007.10.27 16:14:00 -
[119]
Ok another question : can i copy BPC's that i have invented?? i am not to sure but though i would ask. not sure if u can copy a copy, probably not but hey.
|
Ittey
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
Trinity.
|
Posted - 2007.10.28 21:01:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Big Socks
Ok another question : can i copy BPC's that i have invented?? i am not to sure but though i would ask. not sure if u can copy a copy, probably not but hey.
No, you can only make copies from original blueprints, not from blueprint copies.
----------------------------------------------
My invention guide: here |
Big Socks
Amarr
Intersolar Research
|
Posted - 2007.10.29 15:59:00 -
[121]
Ok cool thanks, and BTW Ittey i think this is possibly the best guide i have read in a long time, with a little help from friends and a big help from your guide i have done many inventions and loving it :) cheers for the accurate and easy guide mate.
|
Qual
Gallente
Cornexant Research
|
Posted - 2007.10.30 19:02:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Qual
Originally by: Kdah
Ok, I think I know what the problem is. The formula should read:
Runs = max(1;Round.Down(ActualRunsInputBPC/MaxRunsInputBPC*MaxRunsOutputBPC) + DecryptorBonusRuns)
That makes sure that you always end up with at least one run, but if you use a decryptor with bonus runs and a low-run BPC, you can end up with only the bonus runs on the resulting BPC.
Your example should then read:
Runs = max(1;Round.Down(1000/1000*10) + 4)
I guess I am to blame for that error. And you are of course right. Good catch!
It's been a long time in the making, but i've just posted an updated version of the runs formula here.
"The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf |
Mark Amarr
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.11.07 17:51:00 -
[123]
I'm thinking of trying invention - can you just clarify a point for me?
Assuming you have, say, 10 max run BPCs and a data interface, how do you then go about starting the jobs when it comes to the base items and decryptors? can they be used simultaneously?
From what (little) I understand from the guide there are 3 possibilities:
1) You have to have 1 bpc, the data interface, 1 base item and 1 decryptor to go in, start job, wait for it to finish, then rinse and repeat 9 more times.
2) You can start up 10 "goes" by putting all BPCs in along with the data interface, a base item and a decryptor.
3) The data interface does not disappear from hangar when it is used for an invention job, so you can start concurrent invention jobs with 1 bpc, 1 base item, 1 decryptor going into each separate invention run.
or is it something else entirely?!
Thanks.
|
Amateratsu
Caldari
Terra Incognita
Dark Matter Coalition
|
Posted - 2007.11.08 21:22:00 -
[124]
Hi
I've just completed 4 invention jobs on sisi for the new Golem TII Battleship.
3 succeeded and 1 failed
I used Installation Guide with a 1 run Raven BPC and no metea item
Resulting Golem BPC's were all ME -4 PE +1 3 runs each
this result does not match up with the modifiers that the installation guide decryptor should give which should have resulted in ME -7 PE -1 and +4 runs.
Can anyone explain these results? or is the information regardin the decryptors incorrect?
Just curious, if i get similar results on tranquility i will be a very happy bunny
|
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2007.11.10 12:38:00 -
[125]
Decryptors are being "balanced" right now.
No idea what's happening with invention chance, but ME/PE levels from decryptors seem to have been heavily boosted across the boards (only "pluses", no more minuses), but bonus runs have been decreased.
Of course, we're still not seing the final numbers yet I suppose, we'd have to wait for the actual release first.
I just hope they do get out the new data exports ASAP, so we can see what exact changes they will have made by then.
_
New character creation guide | [CNVTF] corp recruiting | Stacknerfs explained |
Becq Starforged
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2007.11.12 20:13:00 -
[126]
I was just going to ask more or less the same question as Amateratsu. I did eight invention jobs on sisi for the Minmatar BSes (four each) and ended up with one Black Ops and two Marauders prints (37.5%). I used Assembly Instructions and 1 run BPCs on all of them and the resulting prints were ME -4, PE +1, 3 runs (I expected ME -7, PE -2, 4 runs).
While I realize these two data points aren't sufficient to be considered statistically significant, I wonder if they may have increased the success chance significantly?
Oh, and Ittey, I just noticed a minor error (typo) in your guide:
ME Wastage Constant
0 0 1.1 <-- wastage should be 0.1; constant is correct
-1 0.2 1.2
-2 0.3 1.3
-3 0.4 1.4
-4 0.5 1.5
-5 0.6 1.6
-6 0.7 1.7
-7 0.8 1.8
-8 0.9 1.9
--
Becq Starforged
proprietor of Starforge Industries, a subsidiary of Minmatar Ship Construction Services
At Starforge Industries, the world of tomorrow is being blown apart today! |
Lucre
STK Scientific
Black-Out
|
Posted - 2007.11.12 20:21:00 -
[127]
I see nothing in the guide mentioning it, but I've heard a theory - mostly from those having good successes doing invention at POS - that standing with the corp owning the facility affects invention successes. Has anyone any experiences which support or contradict this, or is it just one of those myths that arise from a combination of lucky and unlucky streaks at the right times? |
Gner Dechast
Gallente
Flashman Services
|
Posted - 2007.11.13 12:54:00 -
[128]
Nice guide Ittey.
Does anyone have an idea how to run invention jobs in POS (mobile lab).
There's gotta be some strange trick to this, as no matter where I keep my interface, it can't find it, ergo, I cannot run invention jobs
Anyone?
|
chinook
|
Posted - 2007.11.15 21:55:00 -
[129]
I cant seem to invent from my corp hanger. I can research bpo from it fine but need to place items in lab at pos to invent. only have scientific networking at 1 but should be fine as I can remote research ok. ?????
|
Ittey
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
Trinity.
|
Posted - 2007.11.16 05:10:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Becq Starforged
Oh, and Ittey, I just noticed a minor error (typo) in your guide:
Nice catch, fixed.
Oh and try not to complain about my guide not matching sisi people, not really my fault that CCP keeps changing stuff.
I will update it as soon as the new changes are made, don't have enough time to keep every little upcoming change in the guide.
----------------------------------------------
My invention guide: here |
George Peppard
Gallente
THE A TEAM
|
Posted - 2007.11.22 15:03:00 -
[131]
So if I have understood these calcs correctly, unless you are using a decryptor, you can only successfully invent a 1 run BPC of any given ship, irrespective of how many runs the initial Tech I BPC has.
Use of run boosting decryptors also seems to make most sense on ships in terms of cost v. return.
_____________________________________________
If you have a problem, and if no-one else can help, then if you can find us, maybe you can hire the A-Team! |
Lilith Faux
|
Posted - 2007.12.01 03:24:00 -
[132]
Speaking of which...is there really any benefit to using a max run ship BPC over a 1 run ship BPC? Or did I miss some formula that explains it...
|
jsman99
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2007.12.03 11:32:00 -
[133]
Well, I read your tutorial and started some invention. My first was lucky and finished with succes.
But I put 300 run BPC T1 into invention, and get only 1 run copy BPC (T2).
I read your example: The final number of runs formula is a doozy compared to the others, so I will explain.
Runs = max( 1; Round.Down( ( ( ActualRunsInputBPC / MaxRunsInputBPC ) * MaxRunsOutputBPC ) + DecryptorBonusRuns))
This was rig then:
ActualRunsInputBPC = 300 (this was my bpc and I made them 300 runs)
MaxRunsInputBC = 1000 (rig)
MaxRunsOutputBPC = 1000 (im not sure but I think this also 1000)
I wasn't using any decryptor
then
runs = max (1, round.down(((300/1000)*1000)+no.bonus)
runs = max (1, 300)
runs = 300
Why I got 1 run BPC? Or where I make mistake?
|
Bambi
|
Posted - 2007.12.06 12:11:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Amateratsu
Hi
I've just completed 4 invention jobs on sisi for the new Golem TII Battleship.
Just curious, if i get similar results on tranquility i will be a very happy bunny
Sisi seems to give FAR better chances of success with invention than TQ.
|
Jann DeVIlle
|
Posted - 2007.12.07 21:12:00 -
[135]
Originally by: George Peppard
So if I have understood these calcs correctly, unless you are using a decryptor, you can only successfully invent a 1 run BPC of any given ship, irrespective of how many runs the initial Tech I BPC has.
That's how I read it as well. Also, I just invented my first Tech 2 Frigate from a max. run BPC (without decryptor), the result was a 1 run Tech 2 BPC. So the experiment confirms our understanding of Ittey's guide.
|
Baniya Bhai
|
Posted - 2007.12.08 04:44:00 -
[136]
I did the new Devoter ship invention using Circular Logic as the decryptor. What I got after several tries is a 1 run BPC?
I thought I would get a 9 run BPC at least.
Anybody know more about this?
|
Becq Starforged
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2007.12.10 10:31:00 -
[137]
You should have gotten a 9-run BPC. My guess is that you accidentally left the decryptor field blank on that job.
--
Becq Starforged
proprietor of Starforge Industries, a subsidiary of Minmatar Ship Construction Services
At Starforge Industries, the world of tomorrow is being blown apart today! |
Lazuran
Gallente
Time And ISK Sink Corporation
|
Posted - 2007.12.10 22:15:00 -
[138]
Thanks.
Since it's a Beginners' guide, you might want to remove the reference to the now defunct T2 BPO lottery from the "Skills" page.
"...been designed for one purpose and one purpose only. Imagine a handful of repair drones pouring from the carebear's mouth. Now imagine they have um, nothing." -Unknown Hel redesigner (2007) |
RIVAL BLOOD
Caldari
FW Advanced Tech
|
Posted - 2007.12.14 01:10:00 -
[139]
For items are they module only or ship based as well. Ive heard conflicting reports on ship meta items simply designed to reduce the negative % chance reduction and Ive had people say it doesnt matter at all.
Does it or does it not matter to use a ship in the invention rolls?
***********************************************
Supplying Eve, one item at a time.
Man does that take a long time!! |
Ittey
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
Trinity.
|
Posted - 2007.12.16 04:24:00 -
[140]
Using base items on ship jobs does increase the odds, but not enough to make it cost effective currently.
----------------------------------------------
My invention guide: here |
Jayden Lancia'Yu
Gallente
|
Posted - 2007.12.20 16:09:00 -
[141]
whats the success rate with ships?
|
Jann DeVIlle
|
Posted - 2007.12.21 21:22:00 -
[142]
A few datapoints for frigate invention:
Post Trinity, I've run a little test series on Tranquility about the effect of max run BPCs vs. one run BPCs in ship invention. All relevant invention skills were at 4.
First try:
Manticores invented from Kestrel max run BPCs.
10 attempts, 8 of 10 with User Manual (forgot the decryptor for the other 2).
6 out of 10 attempts were successful.
Second try:
Manticores invented from Kestrel BPCs with only 1 run.
10 attempts, 9 of 10 with User Manual (forgot the decryptor in one case).
0 out of 10 attempts were successful.
Now this looks like the run count on the T1 BPC makes a difference for the chance of ship invention, which conflicts with reports from pre-Trinity. Did anyone else test for the influence of T1 BPC run count on ship invention? If yes, what were the results?
|
thegallenteamarrguy
|
Posted - 2007.12.23 01:22:00 -
[143]
thank yyou
|
atoninothemighty
|
Posted - 2007.12.23 01:26:00 -
[144]
thank yyou for the guide
|
Ishxara
|
Posted - 2007.12.23 15:09:00 -
[145]
Edited by: Ishxara on 23/12/2007 15:11:42
Originally by: Jann DeVIlle
Now this looks like the run count on the T1 BPC makes a difference for the chance of ship invention, which conflicts with reports from pre-Trinity. Did anyone else test for the influence of T1 BPC run count on ship invention? If yes, what were the results?
Dunno about ships but with rig BPC it gives the same amount of runs with 1000 run bpc and with 1 run bpc.
first try
10 * 1000(max) run rig bpc, no decr
result : 5 * 1(one) run -4me/pe
second try
10* 1 run same rig bpc, no decr
result : 4 * 1(one) run -4me/pe
What is the point to waste time on 1000 runs BPC ?
|
MORRS
|
Posted - 2007.12.24 06:11:00 -
[146]
Can someone post what is different with the decyphers since the last patch? The decyphers them selves have no information in the description or attributes as to what they do and what percentages
|
Gort
Storm Guard Elite
|
Posted - 2007.12.28 23:20:00 -
[147]
Invention is an enigma, wrapped in a cipher.
Thanks so much for the guide, however. It's a good one.
Gort
--
When in doubt, empty the magazine. |
Dominique Vasilkovsky
HOW Industries
|
Posted - 2008.01.02 10:02:00 -
[148]
I finally had a look at this guide and noticed you got the pre Trinity stats listed for the decryptors on this page.
Signature approved by Eldo |
TubeChild TK421
|
Posted - 2008.01.04 00:44:00 -
[149]
Link is dead. Long live the link.
|
Mamede
|
Posted - 2008.01.07 10:13:00 -
[150]
So if for ships the "normal" max runs is 1. If we use a +4 runs decryptor. We get 4 runs or 5?
|
Aldelphius
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.01.08 00:38:00 -
[151]
Originally by: Ishxara
Dunno about ships but with rig BPC it gives the same amount of runs with 1000 run bpc and with 1 run bpc.
first try
10 * 1000(max) run rig bpc, no decr
result : 5 * 1(one) run -4me/pe
second try
10* 1 run same rig bpc, no decr
result : 4 * 1(one) run -4me/pe
What is the point to waste time on 1000 runs BPC ?
Can confirm that for rigs thers is no point of using max run BPC's. Too bad they dont want to allow max run invention, because all it dose is subtract a few mil from a 300+m rig .
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Wolfgang Pauli
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Posted - 2008.01.12 05:29:00 -
[152]
Has anyone taken data concerning the effect of T1 item inclusion on the probability of invention success in Trinity?
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Ittey
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
Trinity.
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Posted - 2008.01.13 05:05:00 -
[153]
Ok, now all the guides should have the right decryptor numbers. I had to change hosts for the site, so let me know if something got broken in the transfer.
----------------------------------------------
My invention guide: here |
MyBadd
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Posted - 2008.01.29 04:53:00 -
[154]
After installing an invention job can the interface be removed from the hangar prior to job completion without affecting the results? Not thrilled about leaving a ship interface in the open access of a mobile lab.
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Muhanjala
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Posted - 2008.01.30 09:24:00 -
[155]
Question: If the copy, from which I'm inventing a t2 bpc, is for example ME 20, will the resulting t2 bpc be not -4 ME, but higher?
So far I used ME 0 bpcs, and the resulted bpc had -4 ME.
Please clarify.
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Elrianmk2
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.02.03 12:19:00 -
[156]
Well 10 attempts on max run Drone invention resulted in 6*1 run T2 drones, so in a nutshell inventing these costs me (at market value)roughly 1.8 Mill, market value of the drone,1 mill and falling, oh yes and to build the drone pretty much means i loose what 1 mill per drone. Did i miss something? I thought Max run module BPC's were supposed to result in a 10 run BPC being produced on a successful job. Anyone able to confirm this as i understand it T2 Module invention is pretty much a complete waste of Isk. 10 Run BPC's do give you a Profit Margin, a one run BPC just makes me sad. Or possibly an idiot, at this point im hoping im missing something from my procedures, anyone able to confirm?
-----
If it wasnt for bad luck i would have no luck at all
The only certainties are death and taxes.
Edit: and the nerfing of my pic :/ |
Ittey
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
Trinity.
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Posted - 2008.02.04 01:22:00 -
[157]
Originally by: MyBadd
After installing an invention job can the interface be removed from the hangar prior to job completion without affecting the results? Not thrilled about leaving a ship interface in the open access of a mobile lab.
Yes you can remove the module with no problems.
Originally by: Muhanjala
Question: If the copy, from which I'm inventing a t2 bpc, is for example ME 20, will the resulting t2 bpc be not -4 ME, but higher?
So far I used ME 0 bpcs, and the resulted bpc had -4 ME.
Please clarify.
It will still come out to be ME -4. The stats of the T1 bpc have ZERO bearing on the invented T2 bpc.
----------------------------------------------
My invention guide: here |
Cypher V
Minmatar
Silent-I.K.Y
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Posted - 2008.02.12 09:13:00 -
[158]
I know this has been asked for previously, but has anyone got:
DATA ON HOW SKILL LEVELS INCREASE CHANCE?!?!?!
grrr...
ps. Used this guide to get me going :) helped a BUNCH!
----------------------------------------------
Minmatar suck? Shoulda done my research -_-
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Janluck
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Posted - 2008.02.18 21:17:00 -
[159]
Edited by: Janluck on 18/02/2008 21:17:21
hi all
where I can obtain data ship interface that is not in the market?
Making exploration?
making the cosmos?
In which site?
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Ittey
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
Trinity.
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Posted - 2008.02.19 01:48:00 -
[160]
Originally by: Cypher V
I know this has been asked for previously, but has anyone got:
DATA ON HOW SKILL LEVELS INCREASE CHANCE?!?!?!
grrr...
The only people who COULD answer this are devs, and they aren't saying. The players have been forced to reverse engineer the formula using the results from jobs, which is as much fun as it sounds.
Originally by: Janluck
Edited by: Janluck on 18/02/2008 21:17:21
hi all
where I can obtain data ship interface that is not in the market?
Making exploration?
making the cosmos?
In which site?
Honestly I have no idea, that isn't a part of invention I take part in.
-------------------------------
My invention guide: here
My corp's recruitment thread |
Bolavaz
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Posted - 2008.02.21 20:57:00 -
[161]
I am not sure about ship BPC, but the input BPC runs do make a difference on the output T2 BPC. For instance, I sucessfully invent a 10 run T2 drone BPC when I perform an invention on a max run T1 drone bpc. If I performed the same invension job on 10 run T1 drone BPC, I will get a only 1 run T2 bpc.
Again I am not sure how that applies to ship bpc invensions.
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Pontifex Tellanius
North Star Networks
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.03.03 00:39:00 -
[162]
There seems to be an inconsistency in the number of runs on the invented T2 BPC when inventing Mobile Large Warp Disruptors (bubbles). Using a 10-run BPC and an Advanced Theories decryptor I got a 6-run T2 BPC.
In order to match this with the formula in the guide either the max run for the T1 BPC is higher (20) than stated under Production Limit or (more likely) the 'MaxRunsOutputBPC' in your formula is 5 for this blueprint.
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Khana Loaris
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Posted - 2008.03.05 22:01:00 -
[163]
Ok, rumour has it that max run bpc's for ship invention (of any ships) are no longer needed. Something about the bottleneck for freighter invention or something.
Can anyone confirm this? ....cos I can't find a reference to it anywhere.
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Letrange
Chaosstorm Corporation
Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium
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Posted - 2008.03.15 12:37:00 -
[164]
Originally by: Khana Loaris
Ok, rumour has it that max run bpc's for ship invention (of any ships) are no longer needed. Something about the bottleneck for freighter invention or something.
Can anyone confirm this? ....cos I can't find a reference to it anywhere.
Originally by: Patch Notes
# Jump Freighter invention now has the chance of returning blueprints with higher numbers of runs.
no general changes just changes for freighters...
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Hoist Pax
Pax Seibertronia
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Posted - 2008.03.19 21:21:00 -
[165]
Has anyone noticed a recent change in the success rate since the Trinity 1.1 boost patch and the patch to fix the patch? My chances at things has seem to gone in the crapper.. For instance some 10mn mwds which I used to get 7 or 8 out of 10 runs I just got 1 out of 10, and all the other odds and ends inventions failed.
Could be just my bad luck, but I'm worried about trying to invent anymore, as it barely made ends meet as it was.
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Bambi
Existentialist Collective
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Posted - 2008.03.20 12:05:00 -
[166]
Edited by: Bambi on 20/03/2008 12:05:36
Has anyone had any success with multiple run Jump Freighter invention since the patch?
I have a couple of jobs in at the moment using the +1 run 1.2x chance decryptors. Anyone know if the bonus runs works the same for J.F as it does with all other ships?
EVE is dead, long live EVE!
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Ittey
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
Trinity.
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Posted - 2008.03.25 02:35:00 -
[167]
Edited by: Ittey on 25/03/2008 02:35:41
Originally by: Hoist Pax
Has anyone noticed a recent change in the success rate since the Trinity 1.1 boost patch and the patch to fix the patch? My chances at things has seem to gone in the crapper.. For instance some 10mn mwds which I used to get 7 or 8 out of 10 runs I just got 1 out of 10, and all the other odds and ends inventions failed.
Could be just my bad luck, but I'm worried about trying to invent anymore, as it barely made ends meet as it was.
Unless you have been running invention jobs 24/7 since the patch your sample size is too small to say anything like this. Odds are you are just having a bad stretch, as well all do.
Also of important note, my host will be doing maintenance next week so the site will be unavailable from the 28th until the 30th or so. So if you can't get to the site this is why.
-------------------------------
My invention guide: here
My corp's recruitment thread |
Cinori Aluben
The Salvaged
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Posted - 2008.03.29 21:22:00 -
[168]
We noticed today in help channel that the link is broken. True?
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Biobuilder
Caring and Sharing Inc
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Posted - 2008.03.30 13:53:00 -
[169]
Originally by: Janluck
Edited by: Janluck on 18/02/2008 21:17:21
hi all
where I can obtain data ship interface that is not in the market?
Making exploration?
making the cosmos?
In which site?
From my experiance interfaces are found using exploration. The corosponding interface will be found in its soveriegn space. Now I am not 100% sure on this , but the exploration would need to be done in 0.0 to find the ship interfaces, but the other two can be found in low sec and empir space. As well as blueprints to build said interfaces and parts to build from blueprints.
Also check the auction contracts to find what you are looking for ( to buy or to sell )
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Omnituens
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Posted - 2008.04.17 14:26:00 -
[170]
Hmmm... if i have a rig bpc (300) with no decryptor, what is the run amount i will get? I dont know what max(1; bit of the formula does.
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Sheleste
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.04.21 12:14:00 -
[171]
I am sorry if this has been covered, but I didn't see it anywhere.
Has anyone noticed a marked decrease in success rate at a POS vs. a public invention slot?
Upon setting up a corporate POS I jumped right into doing invention there, because of the shorter time interval. However my success rate on frigate BPC's went from about 50% to ZERO.
When I gave it up and moved everything back to a public station, I immediately started having success again. If anyone could corroborate or elaborate on this, it would be appreciated!
null |
Tattoo Face
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Posted - 2008.04.28 09:01:00 -
[172]
Originally by: Sheleste
I am sorry if this has been covered, but I didn't see it anywhere.
Has anyone noticed a marked decrease in success rate at a POS vs. a public invention slot?
Upon setting up a corporate POS I jumped right into doing invention there, because of the shorter time interval. However my success rate on frigate BPC's went from about 50% to ZERO.
When I gave it up and moved everything back to a public station, I immediately started having success again. If anyone could corroborate or elaborate on this, it would be appreciated!
I haven't done any invention for ages. Started again a couple of days ago - first 10 jobs failed (never had that before) and only got 1 of the next 5 as well. Total was 5 Cruisers failed and only 1 out of 10 Frigates successful - so you may be on to something.
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OverKill
Caldari
Hadean Drive Yards
Archaean Cooperative
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Posted - 2008.05.04 04:09:00 -
[173]
Well I know my success rate has gone into the crapper
Example
Minmatar Encryption Methods V
Minmatar Starship Engineering IV
1.8x / 4 run Decryptors
4 attempts (Sleipnir)
0 successes in the last 2.5 days
Minmatar Encryption Methods V
Minmatar Starship Engineering IV
.6x / 9 run Decryptors
15 attempts (on various T2 frigates)
3 Success (2x Jaguar and 1x Cheetah) in the last 2 days
Looks like something is borked...
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OverKill
Caldari
Hadean Drive Yards
Archaean Cooperative
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Posted - 2008.05.04 17:36:00 -
[174]
Edited by: OverKill on 04/05/2008 17:37:28
Originally by: OverKill
Well I know my success rate has gone into the crapper
Example
Minmatar Encryption Methods V
Minmatar Starship Engineering IV
1.8x / 4 run Decryptors
4 attempts (Sleipnir)
0 successes in the last 2.5 days
Minmatar Encryption Methods V
Minmatar Starship Engineering IV
.6x / 9 run Decryptors
15 attempts (on various T2 frigates)
3 Success (2x Jaguar and 1x Cheetah) in the last 2 days
Looks like something is borked...
Add another 6 attempts (3x Breacher and 3x Slasher) using the .6 Decryptors and the above mentioned skills
0 successes once again
Bringing Frigate Attempts to a grand total of 21 attempts, 3 successes. This is my excited face, really.
-
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RC Denton
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Posted - 2008.06.22 18:35:00 -
[175]
bump for this excellent guide
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Lord Fitz
Antares Fleet Yards
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.23 01:44:00 -
[176]
Edited by: Lord Fitz on 23/06/2008 01:49:46
Originally by: OverKill
Well I know my success rate has gone into the crapper
Looks like something is borked...
This is just standard variation, your frigate invention is exactly where it should be. Your BC invention is from a sample size of 4. Would you seriously expect if you threw a die 4 times you would get a 5 or a 6 at least once ? Sure there's a chance, but there's plenty chance you won't.
I've failed 20+ BC runs with the max chance decryptor before in a row. There's nothing new about someone failing a couple of times, it would happen probably 10x a day for the last year, and get posted to the forum as something is 'borked' about 10x a month.
Originally by: Cypher V
I know this has been asked for previously, but has anyone got:
DATA ON HOW SKILL LEVELS INCREASE CHANCE?!?!?!
The information CCP has given us is:
- Base Chance (in the data dumps)
- Decryptor Stats
The information CCP has NOT given the players is:
- How skill lelvels increase chance
- How meta modules increase chance
Players have reverse engineered the last two, but we cannot know 'for sure'
Here's someone's best guess:
http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/invention_chance.php
It's the one most likely to be correct from what I've seen.
Originally by: OverKill
Bringing Frigate Attempts to a grand total of 21 attempts, 3 successes. This is my excited face, really.
The 'average' would be 4.62 successes from 21 attempts.
Note that means the average. Which means you've missed out on one or two successes, and someone somewhere else has got one or two extra.
You cannot make meaningful statistics from 21 runs, you need 1500 runs to be within 1% of the real chance. over 100 to be within 10% even. 21 you could just as easily fail ALL of them and it wouldn't be an indication anything was wrong. Throw a die 6 times, the average, you will get a 6 once. But some people will get two 6's some people will get none.
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Ittey
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
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Posted - 2008.08.30 09:17:00 -
[177]
Edited by: Ittey on 30/08/2008 09:18:53
Ok so my domain name expired but have no fear, I am working on a new host. Hopefully your browsers cached all the data you need for a few days. Keep an eye on the first post for a new link, will keep that up to date.
-------------------------------
My invention guide: here
My corp's recruitment thread |
Ittey
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
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Posted - 2008.08.31 05:21:00 -
[178]
Braage now has the guide at eve-guides.com. I am no longer in charge of it, thanks for all the love for putting it together.
-------------------------------
My invention guide: here
My corp's recruitment thread |
Hazel Starr
Snuff inc
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Posted - 2008.10.27 00:46:00 -
[179]
Ittey,
Call any ship of yours 'The Invention Guide' and you'll fly safe from my
piratical skills...
Excellent job,
-- Haze
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