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Cherry Sulphate
ojingo
27
|
Posted - 2017.03.03 21:18:39 -
[1] - Quote
you know when you're winning a fair fight and some teet suckling ****** warps in an alt? please see thread title and lash on. |

Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3130
|
Posted - 2017.03.03 21:24:46 -
[2] - Quote
Cherry Sulphate wrote:you know when you're winning a fair fight and some teet suckling ****** warps in an alt? please see thread title and lash on.
Post on your main so we can at least know what you lost to generate those tears... |

unidenify
Plundering Penguins Solyaris Chtonium
193
|
Posted - 2017.03.03 21:26:24 -
[3] - Quote
I don't know there is a rule about a fair fight in lawless space |

000Hunter000
Missiles 'R' Us
132
|
Posted - 2017.03.03 21:27:25 -
[4] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Post on your main so we can at least know what you lost to generate those tears...
LMAO! This!!!  |

Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3133
|
Posted - 2017.03.03 21:27:50 -
[5] - Quote
Cherry Sulphate wrote:you know when you're winning a fair fight and some teet suckling ****** warps in an alt? please see thread title and lash on.
What if I had a friend warping in instead of an alt? Would it satisfy you since I would still only have a single account? |

Cherry Sulphate
ojingo
27
|
Posted - 2017.03.03 21:31:44 -
[6] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Cherry Sulphate wrote:you know when you're winning a fair fight and some teet suckling ****** warps in an alt? please see thread title and lash on. What if I had a friend warping in instead of an alt? Would it satisfy you since I would still only have a single account?
i'd feel satisfied to my very loins, goonboy. |

Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
439
|
Posted - 2017.03.03 21:41:22 -
[7] - Quote
fighting a fair fight is so STUPID pls OP stop doing STUPID THINGS
#BlobOnly #DropCaps |

Cherry Sulphate
ojingo
27
|
Posted - 2017.03.03 21:51:30 -
[8] - Quote
Soel Reit wrote:fighting a fair fight is so STUPID pls OP stop doing STUPID THINGS
#BlobOnly #DropCaps
sorry for the ACHING STUPIDITY. i'm just an unreasonable curmudgeon in an internet space game. |

Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
439
|
Posted - 2017.03.03 22:03:02 -
[9] - Quote
Cherry Sulphate wrote:Soel Reit wrote:fighting a fair fight is so STUPID pls OP stop doing STUPID THINGS
#BlobOnly #DropCaps sorry for the ACHING STUPIDITY. i'm just an unreasonable curmudgeon in an internet space game.
i'll forgive you this time!  hoping your next fight will be a oneside fight too!!!!!!!! <3 |

Bjorn Tyrson
EVE University Ivy League
251
|
Posted - 2017.03.03 22:10:34 -
[10] - Quote
The fight was never fair, they had backup, you didn't, which means they where better prepared for the fight than you where. But you picked the fight anyways. Seems like a personal problem to me. |

DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
59715
|
Posted - 2017.03.03 22:33:38 -
[11] - Quote
Yeah, it's a shame, no honor in this game of Alts Online.
Things would be a lot different in this game if the server only allowed the client to log in one character.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
|

Ptraci
3 R Corporation The Irukandji.
2048
|
Posted - 2017.03.03 23:41:59 -
[12] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Yeah, it's a shame, no honor in this game of Alts Online.
Things would be a lot different in this game if the server only allowed the client to log in one character.
DMC
Cos I totally don't have several computers here. Or you want them to restrict it by IP, too? How much is a VPN nowadays? $5/month? Where there's a will, there's a way. Maybe OP just needs to "get gud"... |

Bjorn Tyrson
EVE University Ivy League
256
|
Posted - 2017.03.04 00:03:17 -
[13] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote:Yeah, it's a shame, no honor in this game of Alts Online.
Things would be a lot different in this game if the server only allowed the client to log in one character.
DMC Cos I totally don't have several computers here. Or you want them to restrict it by IP, too? How much is a VPN nowadays? $5/month? Where there's a will, there's a way. Maybe OP just needs to "get gud"...
Or maybe op needs to get better at flying the friend-ship |

Cherry Sulphate
ojingo
31
|
Posted - 2017.03.04 00:05:12 -
[14] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote:Yeah, it's a shame, no honor in this game of Alts Online.
Things would be a lot different in this game if the server only allowed the client to log in one character.
DMC Cos I totally don't have several computers here. Or you want them to restrict it by IP, too? How much is a VPN nowadays? $5/month? Where there's a will, there's a way. Maybe OP just needs to "get gud"...
where "get gud" = buy/plex multiple accounts. thanks for proving my point, hun. |

Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
442
|
Posted - 2017.03.04 00:20:14 -
[15] - Quote
confirming that friend-ship is OP specially when they drop titans *jeeeeeeez* |

Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
1330
|
Posted - 2017.03.04 00:23:45 -
[16] - Quote
I have to smile at the answers here. Championship is duking it out with friendship again and CCP is winning the sub war.
Have you heard anything I've said?
You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
That's right.
Had to end sometime.
|

Ptraci
3 R Corporation The Irukandji.
2050
|
Posted - 2017.03.04 02:12:07 -
[17] - Quote
Cherry Sulphate wrote: thanks for proving my point, hun.
That doesn't make your tears any less sweet. |

Sir BloodArgon Aulmais
Fortis Fortuna Adiuvatt Dot Dot Dot
52
|
Posted - 2017.03.04 02:49:13 -
[18] - Quote
Forum alt whining about combat alt.
Another alt whine thread.
*sigh* |

Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
444
|
Posted - 2017.03.04 02:50:09 -
[19] - Quote
hello! i'm on my main bitches!  |

Syds Sinclair
Aliastra Gallente Federation
278
|
Posted - 2017.03.04 02:59:26 -
[20] - Quote
Cherry Sulphate wrote:you know when you're winning a fair fight and some teet suckling ****** warps in an alt? please see thread title and lash on.
..But if you wanted a fair and structured PVP experience, you have hundreds of games to choose from. Eve is one of the small handfuls of games that are a living breathing thriving open world full of surprise, danger, and unfair situations.
GÖá Sinclair Consulting GÖá
|

Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
47152
|
Posted - 2017.03.04 03:10:56 -
[21] - Quote
We give a fair bit to Carebears around here and tell them to HTFU.
So gotta say, HTFU OP. We all know the game. If you don't like it, no one is forcing you to pvp. Go mine or something. |

Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
444
|
Posted - 2017.03.04 03:15:04 -
[22] - Quote
he/she can duel people on jita undock! legit 1vs1
ops... forgot about nados....  |

Yang Aurilen
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1386
|
Posted - 2017.03.04 05:44:29 -
[23] - Quote
Soel Reit wrote:he/she can duel people on jita undock! legit 1vs1 ops... forgot about nados.... 
Muh boosts.
Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
|

Ptraci
3 R Corporation The Irukandji.
2052
|
Posted - 2017.03.04 07:39:54 -
[24] - Quote
Soel Reit wrote:hello! i'm on my main bitches! 
This explains a great deal, lol |

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
27930
|
Posted - 2017.03.04 12:38:05 -
[25] - Quote
What is this fair that the OP speaks of?
In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
New Player FAQ
Feyd's Survival Pack
|

Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces
402
|
Posted - 2017.03.04 13:00:25 -
[26] - Quote
this had been a problem for a long time. with the reveal of Alphas, ccp had said in a blog they were looking to limit omegas too.
i have not been able to find the blog again though unfortunately.
"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
|

Ptraci
3 R Corporation The Irukandji.
2053
|
Posted - 2017.03.04 13:32:03 -
[27] - Quote
Soel Reit wrote:ops... forgot about nados.... 
Ever seen what a Taranis can do to a Tornado? Learn 2 pvp. |

Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
451
|
Posted - 2017.03.04 18:05:09 -
[28] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:Soel Reit wrote:ops... forgot about nados....  Ever seen what a Taranis can do to a Tornado? Learn 2 pvp.
oh yes senpai! pls teach me! specially if you hit approach with a taranis against a nado *boom! headshot! oneshotted*
|

Marika Sunji
Dark-Rising Wrecking Machine.
1
|
Posted - 2017.03.04 18:22:40 -
[29] - Quote
Soel Reit wrote:Ptraci wrote:Soel Reit wrote:ops... forgot about nados....  Ever seen what a Taranis can do to a Tornado? Learn 2 pvp. oh yes senpai! pls teach me! specially if you hit approach with a taranis against a nado *boom! headshot! oneshotted*
Are you really arguing that if you make a pretty obvious mistake you should not be punished? |

Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
451
|
Posted - 2017.03.04 18:38:50 -
[30] - Quote
no i'm just writing whatever pass through my mind  |

Ptraci
3 R Corporation The Irukandji.
2058
|
Posted - 2017.03.04 19:53:25 -
[31] - Quote
Soel Reit wrote: specially if you hit approach with a taranis against a nado *boom! headshot! oneshotted*
An artillery fit ship (especially LARGE artillery) cannot hit a frigate if the frigate knows what he is doing. But approach the 'nado, by all means. For some reason they usually end up running from me. Or they die if I get in tackle range. |

Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
451
|
Posted - 2017.03.04 20:00:38 -
[32] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:Soel Reit wrote: specially if you hit approach with a taranis against a nado *boom! headshot! oneshotted*
An artillery fit ship (especially LARGE artillery) cannot hit a frigate if the frigate knows what he is doing. But approach the 'nado, by all means. For some reason they usually end up running from me. Or they die if I get in tackle range.
it's ok bro, now we know you are l33t pvper |

Amojin
Entropic Synergies Research
66
|
Posted - 2017.03.04 20:05:27 -
[33] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:What is this fair that the OP speaks of?
A rather antiquated ethical view once shared by a great many people. You can still see images of their great deeds of combat on artful pottery, coins, and frescoes of the ancient world. As civilization advanced, however, and weaponry became more deadly, and you could annihilate first 10 enemies, with a new technology, people realized that their ethics would have to be someone blunted. Then came 100 people, and a thousand, and tens of thousands, the societies creating those weapons wanting to use them, a further erosion occurred.
You can see in their surviving documents, a shift from 'this is right and good,' to more of a 'this is so much power, and so efficient' stance. As they enriched themselves, physically, however, there was a notable drop off in the complexity of their culture. Why bother culturing methods of peaceful interaction, when you can just push a button and annihilate them?
Clearly, the OP is from one of these less advanced cultures, and should be annihilated?
Hmm, that sounds like something Daniel Jackson would say on SG-1... Oh well, I liked him. |

Charley Varrick
State War Academy Caldari State
30
|
Posted - 2017.03.04 20:57:27 -
[34] - Quote
I gotta ask...What exactly makes a main your main? The toon you spend the most time on? The one with the most skill points? Most ISK? The one you designed to look like your real self? |

Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
451
|
Posted - 2017.03.04 20:59:02 -
[35] - Quote
the only character you have? 
#NoAlts |

Amojin
Entropic Synergies Research
66
|
Posted - 2017.03.04 20:59:31 -
[36] - Quote
Charley Varrick wrote:I gotta ask...What exactly makes a main your main? The toon you spend the most time on? The one with the most skill points? Most ISK? The one you designed to look like your real self?
Everyone will have a different answer for that. For me, it's the one that is easiest for me to play, without thinking, what WOULD this toon do? For me, it's this one, that does resemble me, and has skills and goals that match what I would actually have, were this space-game a real thing. But, your mileage may differ, as they say. |

Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
744
|
Posted - 2017.03.05 04:53:47 -
[37] - Quote
Charley Varrick wrote:I gotta ask...What exactly makes a main your main? The toon you spend the most time on? The one with the most skill points? Most ISK? The one you designed to look like your real self?
the one with the beard.
Just Add Water
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Keno Skir
1336
|
Posted - 2017.03.05 07:25:32 -
[38] - Quote
Cherry Sulphate wrote:you know when you're winning a fair fight and some teet suckling ****** warps in an alt? please see thread title and lash on.
Welcome to war, nobody promised you a fair fight 
<Gùï> 250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <Gùï>
<Gùï> Contact me regarding my trusted Alliance Creation Service <Gùï>
|

Salvos Rhoska
2343
|
Posted - 2017.03.05 08:06:48 -
[39] - Quote
A fair fight can only result in stalemate.
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Another Posting Alt
Zerious Fricken Biziness
236
|
Posted - 2017.03.05 08:15:49 -
[40] - Quote
If you want safe spaces, go be a SISI. |

Alpha CEO
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2017.03.05 08:18:31 -
[41] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:A fair fight can only result in stalemate. Huh? |

Salvos Rhoska
2343
|
Posted - 2017.03.05 08:26:37 -
[42] - Quote
Alpha CEO wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:A fair fight can only result in stalemate. Huh? The only fair fight, would be two identical entities fighting in a system of exactly equal circumstances.
This will result in an endless fight if not restricted by time or other resource limitations.(stalemate) If resources are finite, though one side or the other will win each time, the average will remain a perpetual 1:1 win/loss ratio for both sides. (Stalemate)
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Salvos Rhoska
2343
|
Posted - 2017.03.05 08:38:04 -
[43] - Quote
Winning/losing is the result of unequal qualities/quantities between two participants.
Thus unfairness is infact that which decides whom wins/lose, as skewing the balance which in a fair fight will otherwise lead to stalemate.
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Alpha CEO
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2017.03.05 08:43:22 -
[44] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Alpha CEO wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:A fair fight can only result in stalemate. Huh? The only fair fight, would be two identical entities fighting in a system of exactly equal circumstances. This will result in an endless fight if not restricted by time or other resource limitations.(stalemate) If resources are finite, though one side or the other will win each time, the average will remain a perpetual 1:1 win/loss ratio for both sides. (Stalemate) Lol. You're joking. Surely. Please tell me you're joking. |

Salvos Rhoska
2343
|
Posted - 2017.03.05 08:47:19 -
[45] - Quote
Alpha CEO wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Alpha CEO wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:A fair fight can only result in stalemate. Huh? The only fair fight, would be two identical entities fighting in a system of exactly equal circumstances. This will result in an endless fight if not restricted by time or other resource limitations.(stalemate) If resources are finite, though one side or the other will win each time, the average will remain a perpetual 1:1 win/loss ratio for both sides. (Stalemate) Lol. You're joking. Surely. Please tell me you're joking. Joking?
How? Explain.
No. Im not joking.
If I beat you in arm wrestling, its cos i had qualities/quantities greater than yours.
The fight was never fair to begin with.
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Alpha CEO
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2017.03.05 08:59:34 -
[46] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Alpha CEO wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Alpha CEO wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:A fair fight can only result in stalemate. Huh? The only fair fight, would be two identical entities fighting in a system of exactly equal circumstances. This will result in an endless fight if not restricted by time or other resource limitations.(stalemate) If resources are finite, though one side or the other will win each time, the average will remain a perpetual 1:1 win/loss ratio for both sides. (Stalemate) Lol. You're joking. Surely. Please tell me you're joking. Joking? How? Explain. No. Im not joking. If I beat you in arm wrestling, its cos i had qualities/quantities greater than yours. The fight was never fair to begin with. If we had equal qualities/quanities (ie: fair) neither of us coyld win, resulting in stalemate. Fairness is not defined by equality of skill, it's defined by honesty/integrity/impartiality/lack of favouritism.
In game, as used by the OP, it is seen as not blobbing people, sticking to 1v1 committments, equal numbers (not equal abilities) of opposing fleets.
Fairness certainly doesn't mean only stalemate. That's ridiculous. |

Salvos Rhoska
2343
|
Posted - 2017.03.05 09:18:28 -
[47] - Quote
Alpha CEO wrote: Fairness is not defined by equality of skill, it's defined by honesty/integrity/impartiality/lack of favouritism.
In game, as used by the OP, it is seen as not blobbing people, sticking to 1v1 committments, equal numbers (not equal abilities) of opposing fleets.
Fairness certainly doesn't mean only stalemate. That's ridiculous.
There is no perfect equality of skill in EVE. Fairness is not defined by honesty/interity/impartiality/fsvoritism, except as qualities/quantities you or you oppent have, or do nor have.
The fight would only be fair if you and the opponent are identical.
You are confusing fairness to be a moral measure, which is subjective value, to fairness in who wins, which is an objective measur of unfairness.
Honesty, integrity, etc will not help you win a fight. Otherwise, it would be so that if I am more honest than everyone in EVE,I would win every spaceship fight with the sheer power of my honesty.
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Alpha CEO
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2017.03.05 09:24:05 -
[48] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Alpha CEO wrote: Fairness is not defined by equality of skill, it's defined by honesty/integrity/impartiality/lack of favouritism.
In game, as used by the OP, it is seen as not blobbing people, sticking to 1v1 committments, equal numbers (not equal abilities) of opposing fleets.
Fairness certainly doesn't mean only stalemate. That's ridiculous.
There is no perfect equality of skill in EVE. Fairness is not defined by honesty/interity/impartiality/fsvoritism, except as qualities/quantities you or you oppent have, or do nor have. The fight would only be fair if you and the opponent are identical. You are confusing fairness to be a moral measure, which is subjective value, to fairness in who wins, which is an objective measur of unfairness. Honesty, integrity, etc will not help you win a fight. Otherwise, it would be so that if I am more honest than everyone in EVE,I would win every spaceship fight with the sheer power of my honesty. I guess English isn't your first language. |

Salvos Rhoska
2343
|
Posted - 2017.03.05 09:40:15 -
[49] - Quote
Alpha CEO wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Alpha CEO wrote: Fairness is not defined by equality of skill, it's defined by honesty/integrity/impartiality/lack of favouritism.
In game, as used by the OP, it is seen as not blobbing people, sticking to 1v1 committments, equal numbers (not equal abilities) of opposing fleets.
Fairness certainly doesn't mean only stalemate. That's ridiculous.
There is no perfect equality of skill in EVE. Fairness is not defined by honesty/interity/impartiality/fsvoritism, except as qualities/quantities you or you oppent have, or do nor have. The fight would only be fair if you and the opponent are identical. You are confusing fairness to be a moral measure, which is subjective value, to fairness in who wins, which is an objective measur of unfairness. Honesty, integrity, etc will not help you win a fight. Otherwise, it would be so that if I am more honest than everyone in EVE,I would win every spaceship fight with the sheer power of my honesty. I guess English isn't your first language.
Fairness doent mean what you think it means.
You arguments dont mean what you think they mean.
Unfairness in the qualities/quantities between two opponents is what decides the winner from the loser.
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Nicolai Serkanner
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
618
|
Posted - 2017.03.05 09:47:18 -
[50] - Quote
fairness -êf+¢-Én+Ös/ noun noun: fairness
1. impartial and just treatment or behaviour without favouritism or discrimination. |

sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
314
|
Posted - 2017.03.05 09:55:14 -
[51] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote: Fairness doent mean what you think it means.
You arguments dont mean what you think they mean.
Unfairness in the qualities/quantities between two opponents is what decides the winner from the loser.
Right back at you... Fairness doent mean what you think it means. While it is a definition. Though there are some consensus, about many definitions, they can vary from person to person. There are no universal definitions, there are only man made deifnitions, and they can mean different things for different people. The definition you want everyone to apply, is just amde by you. It is not universal, hence it is superstupid you keep making these kind of arguments.
You are not the universal judge of definitions, so just accept that you could be wrong in how you define things, and stop killing discussions by saying that arguments who don-¦t follow your logic and definitions are invalid.
"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
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Salvos Rhoska
2343
|
Posted - 2017.03.05 10:05:48 -
[52] - Quote
He thinks EVE is unfair, cos all fights are unequal.
I think EVE is fair, cos all fights are unequal.
Make your choice.
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Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
2120
|
Posted - 2017.03.05 10:25:50 -
[53] - Quote
While I'm all for One Sub One Account,.......and a long time ago so was CCP.......the simple math is that alts mean Mo Money for our Icelandic Overlords. Learn to deal, because it ain't ever changing.
Hell, I was surprised they banned IS boxing, tbh.
Guess a dev or GM got jumped once too often by a one man/20 alt stealth bomber fleet.
Would also explain why they nerfed my glorious bombs.
MAH BOMBS
*sniffs*
Everything in EVE is a trap.
And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)
You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.
Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
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Salvos Rhoska
2343
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Posted - 2017.03.05 10:48:50 -
[54] - Quote
"Waaah, this was not a fair fight!"
"You have no honesty/integrity/honor! Thats whyi lost!"
"Fight my superior fit ship 1v1, you coward!"
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Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1657
|
Posted - 2017.03.05 11:38:28 -
[55] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:What is this fair that the OP speaks of? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bN99mPddNI |

Ptraci
3 R Corporation The Irukandji.
2060
|
Posted - 2017.03.05 15:07:48 -
[56] - Quote
Alpha CEO wrote: Fairness is not defined by equality of skill, it's about how you treat people.
I see no people. I only see targets. Killmails waiting to happen. Maybe this is where you're going wrong. In warfare the first thing you do is dehumanize the enemy. It's the only way you can kill him and stay sane. |

Shiloh Templeton
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
604
|
Posted - 2017.03.05 16:00:58 -
[57] - Quote
FWIW, multi-boxing PvP is hard and gives you twice as much opportunity to screw up and lose more assets.
At least that's my experience trying it. |

Salvos Rhoska
2347
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Posted - 2017.03.05 17:31:59 -
[58] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:Alpha CEO wrote: Fairness is not defined by equality of skill, it's about how you treat people.
I see no people. I only see targets. In warfare the first thing you do is dehumanize the enemy. It's the only way you can kill him and stay sane.
This is not conducive to sanity.
The correct attitude in war, is you must kill them before they kill you, or those that fight with you, or those you are defending.
If you see people merely as targets in war, youve already lost your sanity.
When you dehumanize the enemy, you dehumanize yourself.
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Amojin
Entropic Synergies Research
70
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Posted - 2017.03.05 17:46:10 -
[59] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Ptraci wrote:Alpha CEO wrote: Fairness is not defined by equality of skill, it's about how you treat people.
I see no people. I only see targets. In warfare the first thing you do is dehumanize the enemy. It's the only way you can kill him and stay sane. This is not conducive to sanity. The correct attitude in war, is you must kill them before they kill you, or those that fight with you, or those you are defending. If you see people merely as targets in war, youve already lost your sanity. When you dehumanize the enemy, you dehumanize yourself.
I have to disagree, here. While I'm no super-hero spec ops guy, I did have a humble role in the military as a low enlisted rank. You absolutely DO dehumanize your enemy. If you think about it too much, you will go insane. Especially when you're lobbing a grenade or using anything other than your M-16 to pick off a single target.
Any time you use a weapon that does 'area damage,' you are putting potential innocents at risk. We try to minimize that, but it does happen. You can't think about it. If you can wrap your mind around the idea, it's also best when you arrive in a combat zone, to assume you're ALREADY dead. Then you can take actions that you would not normally take, being even more aggressive, and potentially saving your life or the lives of the unit.
Hate to have to agree with 'Ms. DNA,' but in this case, she's right. |

Salvos Rhoska
2347
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Posted - 2017.03.05 17:53:40 -
[60] - Quote
Amojin wrote:You absolutely DO dehumanize your enemy. If you think about it too much, you will go insane. Especially when you're lobbing a grenade or using anything other than your M-16 to pick off a single target.
That's because you had lacking training to help you understand your purpose as a soldier.
This is not about death of innocents due to explosives or unjustified fire. Those aren't targets anyways. They are casualties of war. War is hell.
You dont need to dehumanize an enemy, inorder to kill them. Killing them before they kill you, your mates, or those you are defending, or when they impede your mission, are justification enough. None of which dehumanize the enemy, as people, which they are.
If you start dehumanizing people, that is when you will no longer care about lobbing a grenade into a household full of innocents. That is when you lose your sanity.
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Amojin
Entropic Synergies Research
70
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Posted - 2017.03.05 18:01:05 -
[61] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:That's because you had lacking training to help you understand your purpose as a soldier.
In the US Army, the role of a soldier is to do the will of the public, as expressed through the CiC. Sure, you can refuse illegal orders, in fact you're required to, but lacking training?
I didn't know you could train someone to be comfortable with murder. If that's possible, then you're right, I didn't get that training, and neither did anyone else I served with. You cannot take that great moral role onto yourself, when you are but a cog in a greater machine.
There are two types of soldiers - those that joined for, and enjoy killing, under a banner of protection, and those that kill, reluctantly, for that same scutcheon.
The modern weapons of war are too much for a single mind to comprehend. If you just killed 20 people, that's a lot harder to deal with, mentally, than saying to yourself, 'I just killed 20 enemies that would have murdered my family, if they had a chance. They're not human - they're monsters.'
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Alpha CEO
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2017.03.05 18:07:44 -
[62] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:Alpha CEO wrote: Fairness is not defined by equality of skill, it's about how you treat people.
I see no people. I only see targets. Killmails waiting to happen. Maybe this is where you're going wrong. In warfare the first thing you do is dehumanize the enemy. It's the only way you can kill him and stay sane. We're characters in a video game. If you struggle with sanity over exploding pixels, then perhaps PvP isn't a good choice. Maybe even EVE is not a good choice. |

Salvos Rhoska
2347
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Posted - 2017.03.05 18:11:47 -
[63] - Quote
Amojin wrote:I didn't know you could train someone to be comfortable with murder. If that's possible, then you're right, I didn't get that training, and neither did anyone else I served with. You cannot take that great moral role onto yourself, when you are but a cog in a greater machine.
Its not murder, as long as its an action taken during combat in war in-order to defend yourself, your comrades or the fulfillment of your mission from enemy combatants.
You don't need to dehumanize the enemy, in-order to fulfill this. Its not murder. You have to kill them, or they will kill you, given the chance.
But they are people, and soldiers, and they too operate under the same precept.
As I said above, killing non-combatants is a serious issue and potentially murder and a war-crime.
The point I am making, is you don't need to dehumanize the enemy in-order to kill them. A) Dehumanizing them is what will drive you insane. They are humans. You killed them. Dehumanizing them wont change that. B) Dehumanizing them will lead to behavior which will lead them to dehumanize you and your comrades as well. C) Dehumanizing them is what will lead to the death of innocents, as you no longer distinguish between them, nor care. D) Dehumanizing them leads to underestimating them as humans and capable combatants, putting you and your comrades at risk.
The only justification you have, and need, to kill enemies, is to defend yourself, your comrades and fulfill your objectives. No dehumanization necessary, at all.
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Amojin
Entropic Synergies Research
70
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Posted - 2017.03.05 18:13:53 -
[64] - Quote
Alpha CEO wrote:We're characters in a video game. If you struggle with sanity over exploding pixels, then perhaps PvP isn't a good choice. Maybe even EVE is not a good choice.
This is the same person wants a copy of your DNA to join her corp... For her, I believe this is very real. It's a paradox, however, that she will blithely ignore your human rights, but at the same time, has a problem with blowing up your pixelated 'self.'
Her statement, though, is true, as regards to RL. These games? Not so much. I absolutely do attack back when someone tries to gank me. I don't warp scramble them, though, and let them leave if they bit off more than they could chew. I'm not terribly interested in killing you, but I do have a keen interest in not letting you kill me.
I think that's fair. |

Amojin
Entropic Synergies Research
70
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Posted - 2017.03.05 18:15:39 -
[65] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Amojin wrote:I didn't know you could train someone to be comfortable with murder. If that's possible, then you're right, I didn't get that training, and neither did anyone else I served with. You cannot take that great moral role onto yourself, when you are but a cog in a greater machine. Its not murder, as long as its an action taken during combat in war in-order to defend yourself, your comrades or the fulfillment of your mission from enemy combatants. You don't need to dehumanize the enemy, in-order to fulfill this. Its not murder. You have to kill them, or they will kill you, given the chance. But they are people, and soldiers, and they too operate under the same precept. As I said above, killing non-combatants is a serious issue and potentially murder and a war-crime. The point I am making, is you don't need to dehumanize the enemy in-order to kill them. A) Dehumanizing them is what will drive you insane. They are humans. You killed them. Dehumanizing them wont change that. B) Dehumanizing them will lead to behavior which will lead them to dehumanize you and your comrades as well. C) Dehumanizing them is what will lead to the death of innocents, as you no longer distinguish between them, nor care. D) Dehumanizing them leads to underestimating them as humans and capable combatants, putting you and your comrades at risk. The only justification you have, and need, to kill enemies, is to defend yourself, your comrades and your objective. No dehumanization necessary.
The time for all that theorizing is pre-op. Yes, I said a lot of the things you just said, and tried to get my superiors to listen. That never worked. When the time comes, and you're on the ground, that **** is gone, completely. It's not time to talk or think, anymore, but to get the job done. |

Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
1497
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Posted - 2017.03.05 18:16:35 -
[66] - Quote
Amojin wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:What is this fair that the OP speaks of? A rather antiquated ethical view once shared by a great many people. You can still see images of their great deeds of combat on artful pottery, coins, and frescoes of the ancient world. As civilization advanced, however, and weaponry became more deadly, and you could annihilate first 10 enemies, with a new technology, people realized that their ethics would have to be somewhat blunted. Then came 100 people, and a thousand, and tens of thousands, the societies creating those weapons wanting to use them, a further erosion occurred. You can see in their surviving documents, a shift from 'this is right and good,' to more of a 'this is so much power, and so efficient' stance. As they enriched themselves, physically, however, there was a notable drop off in the complexity of their culture. Why bother cultivating methods of peaceful interaction, when you can just push a button and annihilate them? Clearly, the OP is from one of these less advanced cultures, and should be annihilated? Hmm, that sounds like something Daniel Jackson would say on SG-1... Oh well, I liked him. Most likely it wasn't much different back then compared to today and a good portion of the population had severe issues with reading comprehension.
With EVE it is no much different compared to these "gold old times". The difference between fair and EVE is the difference between concept and reality.
Fair, just like honor, are completely subjective terms and entirely a matter of sentiment and perspective.
Remove standings and insurance.
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Salvos Rhoska
2348
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Posted - 2017.03.05 18:24:06 -
[67] - Quote
Amojin wrote:The time for all that theorizing is pre-op. Yes, I said a lot of the things you just said, and tried to get my superiors to listen. That never worked. When the time comes, and you're on the ground, that **** is gone, completely. It's not time to talk or think, anymore, but to get the job done.
I understand.
My point is that dehumanizing the enemy is not conducive to sanity of troops, nor operational effectiveness.
The correct motivation, and the only justification a soldier needs and has to kill, is to protect themselves, their comrades, and in fulfillment of their mission (which ofc also includes killing as many enemies as possible).
Its that simple.
The whole dehumanizing aspect is self-destructive and harmful in the long-run, and completely unnecessary.
I'm sorry to hear you didn't get this kind of training and where instead encouraged to dehumanize the enemy. If it helps, and if you have regrets, consider them in the format I said above. Perhaps you can find some peace there for actions you might have regretted or orders you didnt agree with.
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Amojin
Entropic Synergies Research
70
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Posted - 2017.03.05 18:29:20 -
[68] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Amojin wrote:The time for all that theorizing is pre-op. Yes, I said a lot of the things you just said, and tried to get my superiors to listen. That never worked. When the time comes, and you're on the ground, that **** is gone, completely. It's not time to talk or think, anymore, but to get the job done. I understand. My point is that dehumanizing the enemy is not conducive to sanity of troops, nor operational effectiveness. The correct motivation, and the only justification a soldier needs and has to kill, is to protect themselves, their comrades, and in fulfillment of their mission (which ofc also includes killing as many enemies as possible). Its that simple. The whole dehumanizing aspect is self-destructive and harmful in the long-run, and completely unnecessary. I'm sorry to hear you didn't get this kind of training and where instead encouraged to dehumanize the enemy. If it helps, and if you have regrets, consider them in the format I said above. Perhaps you can find some peace there for actions you might have regretted or orders you didnt agree with.
I have absolutely no regrets. When the Centurion asked Paul what he needed to do for salvation, Paul's answer was very simple to comprehend. Be content with your wages, and do violence to no man, without cause.
Be content with your wages, we can extrapolate into not looting innocents in the field. Do violence to no man, without cause, means that you should not hit innocents.
Lacking in Paul's answer? If we were to be pacifists, Paul would have commanded him to leave Caesar's legions. He didn't, though, because scripture makes a delineation between national defense violence, and personal violence. Yes, turn the other cheek, personally.
If your role, you being called to such for a time, is national defense, then do it, and do it with all your might. I have no regrets, at all. Scripture trained me, and so I don't have PTSD. |

ISD Max Trix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1656
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Posted - 2017.03.05 23:15:37 -
[69] - Quote
Quote: 3. Ranting is prohibited.
A rant is a post that is often filled with angry and counterproductive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and is helpful in development of the game and community. Rants are disruptive, and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise and clear manner while avoiding going off on rambling tangents.
Closed. If you would like to suggest a way to improve the game please feel free to open a thread in Player Feature and ideas.
ISD Max Trix
Lieutenant
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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