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Bazzaye
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Posted - 2007.04.29 13:06:00 -
[1]
Ive noticed the price of rigs, they seem to have averaged out and are hitting 17mil...ish. If this is almost the build cost then i think rigs are far to expensive, eve pvp at the moment requires you have rigs installed as with even ok skills, they add much more bonus to a ship than they take away so rigged ships > non rigged ships, (now i dont disagree with this, as rigs amplify the usefulness of fittings, as they are supposed to.)
So if we take the average price of a tier II BS with tech II fittings and fully rigged, it comes to... 100mil for the ships, 120mil for the fittings and 60mil (ish) for the rigs. 280mil in total to be useful.
Now named modules reduce the price without seriously reducing the ability of the ships. But rigs... rigs have to be on the ship to make it useful, without rigs a ship cannot really hope to compete against a properly rigged ship, so now ships cost an extra 60mil (no matter what size).
Now my point is that an extra 60mil per ship just to be equal is a little to pricey, especially when there is no other less expensive way of competing.
So i propose new rigs are added, ones which act like normal rigs BUT the benefits are less than or equal to the drawbacks, with this the price is reduced sort of like a poor mans rig, with this less well off players can compete... but not as well and the line between the rich and the less off becomes less.
well what do you think?
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Marquis Dean
Energy.
Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.04.29 13:09:00 -
[2]
Some rigs are too expensive, e.g: the powergrid one, going for 37 mil. Others, like the resistance ones which are gonig for ~15mil, I think are just right. At the end of the day it's just a case of extremely high demand and not-so-high supply.
T2 rig prices are going to take a very long time to stabilise, if ever.
---
 Originally by: Tista
i dont like you much but i'm going to agree with you on that.
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Hannobaal
Gallente
Utopian Frontier
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Posted - 2007.04.29 13:18:00 -
[3]
Most rigs are still somewhat overpriced. It's not difficult to make a good profit from making them. There's one in particular that is popular and that you can make at least 1 mil profit on each that you make. I'm obviously not gonna mention which one... 
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"If you ever need anything, please don't
Hesitate to ask someone else first." |
Red Crown
Kudzu Collective
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.04.29 13:23:00 -
[4]
I agree they are overpriced along with some modules. Rigs shouldn't cost more than a +3 implant really.
But mind you that best named guns cost more than tech 2.
-
"The Mains Created the alts
They rebelled
They look...and feel...human
Some are programmed to think they are human
There are many alts.
And they have a plan."
- Forumstar Galactica |
Bazzaye
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Posted - 2007.04.29 13:24:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Bazzaye on 29/04/2007 13:21:41
well ok they are almost stable, we shall say 15mil, 15il x 3 = 45mil per ship. which is still expensive for your average player.
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Letava
Gallente
Svefn-G-Englar
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Posted - 2007.04.29 13:31:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Bazzaye
eve pvp at the moment requires you have rigs installed
No, it doesn't. No more than it requires that you reach some imagined skillpoint count.
Cheaper rigs would be nice, but it's not really unbalanced as it is.
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Bazzaye
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Posted - 2007.04.29 13:34:00 -
[7]
Quote:
No, it doesn't. No more than it requires that you reach some imagined skillpoint count.
Compare the tanks of a rigged ship to a non rigged ship, this is most apparent in rigged passive tanked drakes. Rigging does make a difference.
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Letava
Gallente
Svefn-G-Englar
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Posted - 2007.04.29 13:37:00 -
[8]
Yes, i'm aware they make a huge difference, but they are by no means required.
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Chewan Mesa
coracao ardente
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.04.29 13:37:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Bazzaye
Quote:
No, it doesn't. No more than it requires that you reach some imagined skillpoint count.
Compare the tanks of a rigged ship to a non rigged ship, this is most apparent in rigged passive tanked drakes. Rigging does make a difference.
Make a difference |= absolutely necessary to compete in pvp.
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Marquis Dean
Energy.
Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.04.29 13:38:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Bazzaye
Quote:
No, it doesn't. No more than it requires that you reach some imagined skillpoint count.
Compare the tanks of a rigged ship to a non rigged ship, this is most apparent in rigged passive tanked drakes. Rigging does make a difference.
To be completely fair, so does having all the armour compensations at V. It's just a matter of weighing it all up. If you want a very powerful, rigged blasterthron with a dual rep active tank neutron setup (or whatever), then you're going to be paying several hundred mil for the rigs and implants and gear to make all that fit. Or you could put a normal, non rigged setup on a thron for a fraction of the price.
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Originally by: Tista
i dont like you much but i'm going to agree with you on that.
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Bazzaye
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Posted - 2007.04.29 13:39:00 -
[11]
Well ok maybe i went to far to say you need them but it goes give a huge advantage that is almost required imo.
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Letava
Gallente
Svefn-G-Englar
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Posted - 2007.04.29 13:43:00 -
[12]
Actually, I would say that the advantage of using them is a good argument for why they should remain around current prices. It's not really any different from someone who can afford tech 2 gear having an advantage over someone who can't, or someone who can afford expensive inplants having an advantage over someone who can't. If rigs were cheap, they would become required as nearly everyone would be using them.
As it is now, I have to weigh up whether it's worth me fitting the rigs to improve my ship's performance vs the cost of fitting them and the likelyhood of losing the ship.
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Heikki
Gallente
Wreckless Abandon
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.04.29 13:54:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Bazzaye
pvp at the moment requires you have rigs installed .. rigged ships > non rigged ships
Don't quite follow the logic here...wouldn't the same principle also require snake sets, and all kind of uber officer modules, to be affordable to everyone too?
IMHO the idea should be quite quite opposite; if everyone has rigs (and most often the standard rigging-of-the-month), they make no difference. Eve has for quite long followed the principle that a lot of ISK will give one minimal edge; risking a lot gives you slight benefit.
Just wish they would make rigs (their components) lootable from the wreck. So we could stick on for 'the more your opponent's ship costs, the more you will gain in loot', which nicely balances the benefits from nifty tools.
-Lasse
who doesn't yet use rigs on his combat ships
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Bazzaye
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Posted - 2007.04.29 14:00:00 -
[14]
My point is they add far too much to the ship, anyone that can afford them uses them for any serious ship's fitting, those who cannot afford them are now vastly underpowered compared to the rich. Now should someone who has more money really have such a great advantage? Im all for implants and crazy faction modules as their mere price makes them very rare.
But rigs add far too much for so little price so those who can (which is a larger majority than implants and faction), fit them, those who cant are at a vast disadvantage, either the price of rigs is raised to alot more which then makes them not what they were meant to be, or they are reduced/new type of rig added.
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.04.29 14:04:00 -
[15]
Rigs should be treated as an upgraded ship.
Get a battleship for 65mil, or get a battleship with a small bonus for 80mil.
That way the rigs don't seem that overpowered as some think.
Now if you want to look at overpricing, try fitting an assault ship. 7.5mil for ship, a good 10 mil for equipment and you get 3.5 from premium insurance
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Hannobaal
Gallente
Utopian Frontier
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Posted - 2007.04.29 14:16:00 -
[16]
Nothing is "required" to be in pvp combat in Eve. I've done in it tech 1 frigates with nothing but tech 1 fittings. Works great.
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"If you ever need anything, please don't
Hesitate to ask someone else first." |
Kazuo Ishiguro
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Posted - 2007.04.29 14:16:00 -
[17]
This is an issue that could be addressed, as others have suggested, by having different sizes of rigs for different classes of ships, just like weapons and most modules. Scale them so that the current ones correspond to battleships/capitals. Then the cruiser ones would need ~10% of the components and the frigate ones would require ~2%, leading to affordable prices.
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Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant tanking |
Plutoinum
German Cyberdome Corp
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.04.29 14:23:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Plutoinum on 29/04/2007 14:21:02
I agree that it's still a bit expensive. Yesterday I bought a domi for my industrial alt. Thought he could pvp a bit, too. The 3 tech-1 rigs cost more than the battleship.
I'd like to see all tech-1 rigs in the range between 7.5 and 15 mil. Tech-2 rigs should be maybe 70-120 mil isk depending on what it is and be available.
It's just my personal view of course, but those are the prices that seem reasonable to me, because I don't see tech-1 rigs as elite items, but as something for the same group of people, who also use tech-2. Tech-2 mods are middle class items or standard equipment for the more experienced player now and it's fine.
___________
Muuuhhh !!! |
Zosimos Sabina
Loot
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Posted - 2007.04.29 14:23:00 -
[19]
We need different sizes of rigs, it's ridiculous that my cruisers and frigates have rig slots, and I would love to be able to customize them, but everything costs too much.
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Locus Bey
Gallente
Qalandar
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Posted - 2007.04.29 14:24:00 -
[20]
Well, make your own then. NPC and salvage forever and a day  IMO they are cheap given the time it takes to get all the damn components.
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Plutoinum
German Cyberdome Corp
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.04.29 14:31:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Locus Bey
Well, make your own then. NPC and salvage forever and a day IMO they are cheap given the time it takes to get all the damn components.
That's what this thread is about. Increase the salvage yield a bit or decrease the requirements to build a rig and that way more rigs can be build at a cheaper price.
Doesn't make much difference to the salavager, if he sells a rig for 30 mil or is able to salvage twice as many components and then sells 2 rigs for 15mil isk.
I'd expect the demand to rise over proportion with dropping prices, so he would even earn more isk in the end.
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Muuuhhh !!! |
Kiata
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Posted - 2007.04.29 14:53:00 -
[22]
I can't pvp as much as i used to now because of rig prices, throw away ships are less of an option i have to resort to just ganging up or fighting lesser targets because my wallet stops me "specializing" as others can.
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Father Weebles
North Face Force
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.29 15:54:00 -
[23]
polycarbon rigs ftl
"Welcome to EVE, where inflation is out of control."
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Letava
Gallente
Svefn-G-Englar
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Posted - 2007.04.29 16:42:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Kiata
I can't pvp as much as i used to now because of rig prices, throw away ships are less of an option i have to resort to just ganging up or fighting lesser targets because my wallet stops me "specializing" as others can.
Heh, just don't fit rigs. I have one rigged ship and I haven't even PvPed in it yet.
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Fayn Trak
Gallente
Myridian Trading Systems
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Posted - 2007.04.29 16:57:00 -
[25]
Shhh having an advantage in combat because you've spent money with a view to having an advantage in combat isn't broken. The problem with rigs is that the only reall option is to use them to amplify whatever a setup is best at doing, if they were cheaper people would still be likely to fit the same kinds of rigs thus making them cheaper wont make any difference, may aswell not have rigs at all.
The goal should be to have rigs allow for more diversity on the battlefield amoung ships which would otherwise be identikit setups, once that happens you can do what you want to the prices and rigs will still make things more interesting.
A herd of cattle
A flock of geese
A lot of isk
remember when sigs were text? |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.04.29 17:03:00 -
[26]
IMO the 'right' price for rigs is the 1-5m area. As is, it's just daft to put a rig on anything smaller than a BC, and even then it's a very expensive fit.
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Hannobaal
Gallente
Utopian Frontier
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Posted - 2007.04.29 17:06:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
having different sizes of rigs for different classes of ships, just like weapons and most modules. Scale them so that the current ones correspond to battleships/capitals. Then the cruiser ones would need ~10% of the components and the frigate ones would require ~2%, leading to affordable prices.
This is a very good idea. Rigs on frigates should not cost the same as rigs on battleships. It's just silly for all rigs to be the same regardless of the ship size. There should be a point in fitting rigs on all ships, including tech 1 frigates.
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"If you ever need anything, please don't
Hesitate to ask someone else first." |
Vactet
Immortalis Silens
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Posted - 2007.04.29 17:19:00 -
[28]
...Everyone is complaining about the price...rigs cost 0..
What is costly is the opportunity cost.
I have a few ships. I wanted to rig out one for missions. I wanted to put 2 Cap recharge rigs and a missile ROF rig on it. Now i could have gone out and bought them all and probably spent a pretty penny doing it.
But instead i worked, salvaged missions, and soon enough had the stuff to build them all for myself at 0 cost (Not including BPO cost).
Those who are 100% pvp, thanks..we appreciate the business because theres almost no way for you to build the rigs yourselves.
I split my time between pvp, mission running, and industrial ops (Manufacturing..not mining).
Point is...stop complaining about the opportunity cost, which is what you are paying. Its your choice to pay it or not.
As for the whole "Rigs are required!"
My Rokh has no rigs (yet). But it ripped apart a rigged out drake the other day.
It took a few minutes, but once his shields were down, i think his armor and hull went in 2 vollies.
So rigs are in no way required...what is required is brains.
That goon (No..not goonfleet member. Goon as in smacktard) just sat there laughing in local that id never break his tank. Then yeh..bad for him.
Rigs: Not required but handy for certain situations.
Lots of Isk: Handy, but you can go work and get the stuff yourself.
Brains: Absolute requirement.
Originally by: CCP Sharkbait
we are screwed.
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Letava
Gallente
Svefn-G-Englar
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Posted - 2007.04.29 17:31:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Vactet
...Everyone is complaining about the price...rigs cost 0..
That's like saying ships cost nothing because you can build them yourself. It doesn't actually make your balance drop, but all that time you're spending mining for a ship to use instead of to sell isn't increasing your balance either 
As for the rest of your post, I agree.
The different types of rigs for different size ships is a nice idea. Spending 30 mil rigging an inty to go faster might make it a harderto kill, but it's still an inty and still dies fast.
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Vactet
Immortalis Silens
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Posted - 2007.04.29 17:34:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Vactet on 29/04/2007 17:31:03
I just built a second raven (For the time when the first one dies eventually). It cost 0...
Did i mine for it? Nope.
Well actually it cost 2 mill (BPC cost).
I just accumilated alot of junk from missions and refined it. Realized i had a metric arseload of stuff. Looked at the raven bpc i had, built one.
So i spent my time making iskies with missions and just by looting, happened to end up with enough junk loot that when refined was enough for a raven..actually 2 if i cared that much to build a second.
Its all about playing smart
EDIT: So yes actually all that time i spent "mining" for the minerals to build the ship, my balance was going up, a nice bit too.
Originally by: CCP Sharkbait
we are screwed.
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