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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Ballistic CEO
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Posted - 2007.05.03 01:05:00 -
[1]
example: In the c&p forum there is a thread about how to kill a vagabond. Most of the answers say you need 2 ships to kill it. 
I like to hope there is a natural counter to every ship if it were to come down to 1 vs 1, seems in the vagabonds case this is not true.
So are there any other ships you can think of that realistically require 2 ships to take down? 
And do you think its 'fair' that a ship should require 2 pilots to take it out?  
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Marquis Dean
Energy.
Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.05.03 01:05:00 -
[2]
You only need one Curse to kill a Vagabond.
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 Originally by: Tista
i dont like you much but i'm going to agree with you on that.
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Buraken v2
Amarr Defence Initiative
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Posted - 2007.05.03 01:10:00 -
[3]
Yea curses eat vagas. Vaga pilots have no chance, period.
I bet you need more then 2 ships to take down a titan :] And yes it's fair ;p
Quote:
Mail from: Houvire Takaerne
2006.06.06 19:25
Our research has been fruity. If you're interested, I believe I have found what might be a banana in the corner of my office draw.
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Nerogk Shorn
Caldari
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2007.05.03 01:21:00 -
[4]
Huginn can take down a vaga, or at least make it run.
D-F-A-A-B-A-A-S |
ArtemisEntreri
Art of War
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.05.03 01:24:00 -
[5]
Vulture takes 2 ships to take down, also most good passive tanks ships.
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Ballistic CEO
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Posted - 2007.05.03 09:30:00 -
[6]
ok so the vulture and other passive tanked ships, maybe the vaga was a bad example.
I gues what im getting at is are you happy with the game balance at the minute or is there an area you feel is too strong?
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Kate Nexus
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Posted - 2007.05.03 09:37:00 -
[7]
capital ships are too strong
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Chewan Mesa
coracao ardente
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.05.03 09:46:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Ballistic CEO
ok so the vulture and other passive tanked ships, maybe the vaga was a bad example.
I gues what im getting at is are you happy with the game balance at the minute or is there an area you feel is too strong?
Well do you? Why did you make the post? Is there an imbalance you see?
Personally I think there sure are certain areas which could need a look, but thats always the case and happens all the time anyway. Other than that, generally its not "unfair" if a ship takes 2, 3 or 15 other ships to kill it. Thats why we have skill reqs and isk-reqs to fly certain ships, and ships that do a certain job better than others.
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Lusmu
Caldari
S.P.Q.R
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Posted - 2007.05.03 09:46:00 -
[9]
A mothership in lowsec takes far more than 2.
On a serious note, a nos-nano domi with both heavy and med drones is damn hard to take out 1 on 1, but then in a fleet they don't help much.
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Caletha Reborn
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Posted - 2007.05.03 09:53:00 -
[10]
Even if you dont take capitals into account, there are so many ships that you either need a special ship/setup to take down, or more then 1 ship.
However, often there's at least 1 type of ship that can take down another type though. A vagabond vs a (proper setup) rapier or huginn is for example a sure death for the vaga (if he doesnt get out in time).
Thats whats so damned cool in eve, pretty much everything has a counter. (super)capitals not included.
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Claska Lemming
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Posted - 2007.05.03 09:54:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Claska Lemming on 03/05/2007 09:50:33
wrong character
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Claska
Amarr
Magnetar Ltd
Dark Synergy
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Posted - 2007.05.03 09:54:00 -
[12]
on the test server i almost beat a Vulture with my mrmidon but had T1 ogers, if i had T2 ogers he would have died, i can use T2 ogers on TQ though :D
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Gaia Thorn
Villains
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Posted - 2007.05.03 10:03:00 -
[13]
If that is the case the vulture pilot should be shoot tbh.
Ive seen a vulture tank 2 carriers so a myrmiddon shouldnt be a problem.
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Claska
Amarr
Magnetar Ltd
Dark Synergy
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Posted - 2007.05.03 10:06:00 -
[14]
well, i had good resists, and nossing him (3 diminishing), so i was mainly tank with drone gank ( over 3 mill in drones)and 2 armour reps, i got him to about 30% shields and that was it, but i lost a drone so i got a big chunk of DPS taken out, but if i had T2 drones he would have gone down fast, plus i had 2 Hypnos multispec so i could get back quickly the damage he did.
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Gaia Thorn
Villains
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Posted - 2007.05.03 10:37:00 -
[15]
Yet again he should be strung up and then shoot.
If you get a vulture down to 30% shields with 4 t1 ogres then he must have had a travel fitting on or something.
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ry ry
StateCorp
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Posted - 2007.05.03 10:38:00 -
[16]
a few haulers with webs and sensor damps should do the trick.
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000Hunter000
Gallente
Magners Marauders
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Posted - 2007.05.03 11:10:00 -
[17]
hehe, yeah want to try that vs a NH?  by all means, hell fit sum ecm or damp as well
But then again, how often do u see 1 vs 1's anymore these days?
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Mirasta
Aggressive Tendencies
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Posted - 2007.05.03 11:36:00 -
[18]
I have a scrop that takes 2 ships to take down, 2 carriers. And even then they where complaing.
It's Different! |
BigDave
F.S.O.
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Posted - 2007.05.03 11:59:00 -
[19]
I don't see anything wrong with a ship that, solo, is more effective at surviving than killing -- just as there is nothing wrong with a ship that, solo, is better at killing than surviving. It used to be hard to take down a vaga, even with another vaga; they were just too good at getting away. That made the vaga (and hunting vagas) fun. A full-out passive tank on a vulture is tough to take down, but that same vulture would have a hard time killing some cruisers, let alone anything bigger. That isn't imbalance, it's variety. Imbalance would be two ships which do the same thing, but one doing it consistently better (for same cost/skill requirement). Ships doing different things is good for the game.
And for all these threads focusing on 1v1 capabilities: some ship designs are intended to encourage TEAMWORK. The whole can be greater than the sum of the parts.
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Dang, signatures keep getting smaller and smaller, unless you count the bits where ISD colors outside the lines... |
Ralara
Caldari
Lilandri Foundation
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Posted - 2007.05.03 12:03:00 -
[20]
Most BCs can "take down" a vagabond. If it sits still.
The Vaga shouldn't be able to take down a BC set up for pvp.
If it's zipping about and harrassing, then the BC can chase it away but probably not kill it. Mind, I've been in a ratting setup in a Drake and got a Vaga into structure before they warped off so totally possible.
I'm a corp thief. And remember, I only do it because I like your robot.
Nice Isk. I'll take it. |
xMillz
Exploring Blind
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Posted - 2007.05.03 12:34:00 -
[21]
Originally by: ArtemisEntreri
Vulture takes 2 ships to take down, also most good passive tanks ships.
Im afraid this is not true... I took one down in my Myrm.
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WredStorm
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2007.05.03 18:03:00 -
[22]
Edited by: WredStorm on 03/05/2007 18:00:05
A passive shield tanked Myrmidon, with a couple of shield-related implants (+5% shield hp and -5% shield recharge) and tech II fittings and rigs would require two ships to take down, I think.
Setup:
Myrmidon:
4xLSE II, 1x DG Invuln, 5x SPR II, 1x PDS II, 3x CDFP II, 2x Implants
Shield HP: 19853.27
Shield Regen Time: 87.17
Avg. Regen/sec: 227.75
Peak Regen/sec: 569.38
Resists & Tankable DPS
EM = 37.50% = 911 tankable DPS
EX = 75.00% = 2278 tankable DPS
KI = 62.50% = 1518 tankable DPS
TH = 50.00% = 1139 tankable DPS
Average = 1461 tankable DPS
This is with all relevant shield skills at 5. You could get higher numbers by swapping out the PDS II for a SPR II, but then you'd have to NOS in order to run the DG Invuln forever... the setting above can run forever (assuming skill 4 in the appropriate Capacitor skills). You could also throw on another DG Invuln instead of an LSE II to get even higher numbers, but again you'd not be able to run both DGs non-stop without having a NOS as part of your setup. You are vulnerable to NOS with the above setup (your DG would shut down), but you can choose to pack 6 NOS in your High Slots, which would suck 36 cap/sec for you.
The main problems with such a setup, though, are that the Myrmidon's drones (it's primary and possibly only source of damage) are very vunerable to attack. Without an AB/MWD you can't dictate range, so you can't be sure of being able to scoop them. You also have no web nor scram so your opponent can choose to leave anytime they want.
So yes, this would probably require two ships to take it down, but its not that great when it comes to overall functionality.
Wred
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Think out of the box, consider passive shield tanking your Myrmidon, you'll be pleasantly surprised! |
Auron Shadowbane
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Posted - 2007.05.03 18:23:00 -
[23]
every well piloted ship that doesn't start off with some sort of dissadvantage takes more than 1 hostile ship to kill.
if a vaga starts 5km from a dual webbed, sensor boosted gankathron its dead too.
if a ceptor doesnt want to take risks he won't be killed by any sole ship either.
if a BS fits for all out tank it will be very hard to kill by any solo-non capital ship (tank + 6 nos +2 smartbombs + cap injector; kill that with 1 non-capship. if you take NOS completely out of the picture its the same, but with dual LAR and capacitor rechargers, rigs and stuff).
hardest ships to kill basically are cloakers, high speed ships and capitals. first two classes dont do too much damage and last one is just plain capital (meaning moeny) advantage to its best.
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Steppa
Gallente
Incognito Inc
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Posted - 2007.05.03 18:32:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Kate Nexus
capital ships are too strong
Pardon the flame, but you're smoking rope. Dreadnaughts are little use in fleet battles except against other cap ships. Carriers, until just recently, were expensive isk sinks if sent into battle and boring POS campers if delegating fighters. The recent changes, at least, make them more of the superships they should be. None of them can operate solo and thus become more of the nucleus of a fleet with ample support. They both require and encourage teamwork.
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Kweel Nakashyn
Minmatar
Aeden
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.05.03 18:33:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Kweel Nakashyn on 03/05/2007 18:30:04
omg Tiatannz runaways !!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This one.
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History is made by whinners
Originally by: DB Preacher
(...) Ignore what the coalition muppets are saying on their forums (...)
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sakana
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.05.03 18:59:00 -
[26]
Vagabond is hard to take down, but does a bit less damage than some of the other HACs, so its balanced.
Vulture is hard to take down but does about the same damage as a caracal, so its balanced. 
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2007.05.03 19:29:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 03/05/2007 19:25:21
I killed a curse in a vagabond once, but only because he was stupid enough to get within my web range. I mean, why would anyone sit 10k from a vagabond in a curse? Interesting stuff. :)
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Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune |
Orion Eridanus
Dark Nova Crisis
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Posted - 2007.05.03 19:38:00 -
[28]
A vulture does not need two ships to take down, all you need is a stiletto, dont beleive me ask Savesti Kyrsst(stiletto pilot) or Scrutt5( vulture pilot)
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grappler
Divine Retribution
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Posted - 2007.05.04 10:26:00 -
[29]
cant seem to kill punishers and kessies without at least some carrier support
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Hadwin
Caldari
Universal Army
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Posted - 2007.05.04 10:31:00 -
[30]
HEY CCP!!!
VAGABOND!!
Two words...
FIX
IT
FFS
No ship should be as invincible as the Vagabond currently is. Now, I am well aware of the fact that a Curse can NOS it into submission, or a Huginn can web it from a great distance... but what can Caldari or Gallente do to it?
I've got the answer... f*** all! That's what!
Nerf this ship ASAP.
Hadders
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