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what takes 2 ships to take down?

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Ballistic CEO	Posted - 2007.05.03 01:05:00 - [1] example: In the c&p forum there is a thread about how to kill a vagabond. Most of the answers say you need 2 ships to kill it. I like to hope there is a natural counter to every ship if it were to come down to 1 vs 1, seems in the vagabonds case this is not true. So are there any other ships you can think of that realistically require 2 ships to take down? And do you think its 'fair' that a ship should require 2 pilots to take it out?
Marquis Dean Energy. Insurgency	Posted - 2007.05.03 01:05:00 - [2] You only need one Curse to kill a Vagabond. --- Originally by: Tista i dont like you much but i'm going to agree with you on that.
Buraken v2 Amarr Defence Initiative	Posted - 2007.05.03 01:10:00 - [3] Yea curses eat vagas. Vaga pilots have no chance, period. I bet you need more then 2 ships to take down a titan :] And yes it's fair ;p Quote: Mail from: Houvire Takaerne 2006.06.06 19:25 Our research has been fruity. If you're interested, I believe I have found what might be a banana in the corner of my office draw.
Nerogk Shorn Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2007.05.03 01:21:00 - [4] Huginn can take down a vaga, or at least make it run. D-F-A-A-B-A-A-S
ArtemisEntreri Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.05.03 01:24:00 - [5] Vulture takes 2 ships to take down, also most good passive tanks ships.
Ballistic CEO	Posted - 2007.05.03 09:30:00 - [6] ok so the vulture and other passive tanked ships, maybe the vaga was a bad example. I gues what im getting at is are you happy with the game balance at the minute or is there an area you feel is too strong?
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2007.05.03 09:37:00 - [7] capital ships are too strong
Chewan Mesa coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.03 09:46:00 - [8] Originally by: Ballistic CEO ok so the vulture and other passive tanked ships, maybe the vaga was a bad example. I gues what im getting at is are you happy with the game balance at the minute or is there an area you feel is too strong? Well do you? Why did you make the post? Is there an imbalance you see? Personally I think there sure are certain areas which could need a look, but thats always the case and happens all the time anyway. Other than that, generally its not "unfair" if a ship takes 2, 3 or 15 other ships to kill it. Thats why we have skill reqs and isk-reqs to fly certain ships, and ships that do a certain job better than others.
Lusmu Caldari S.P.Q.R	Posted - 2007.05.03 09:46:00 - [9] A mothership in lowsec takes far more than 2. On a serious note, a nos-nano domi with both heavy and med drones is damn hard to take out 1 on 1, but then in a fleet they don't help much.
Caletha Reborn	Posted - 2007.05.03 09:53:00 - [10] Even if you dont take capitals into account, there are so many ships that you either need a special ship/setup to take down, or more then 1 ship. However, often there's at least 1 type of ship that can take down another type though. A vagabond vs a (proper setup) rapier or huginn is for example a sure death for the vaga (if he doesnt get out in time). Thats whats so damned cool in eve, pretty much everything has a counter. (super)capitals not included.
Claska Lemming	Posted - 2007.05.03 09:54:00 - [11] Edited by: Claska Lemming on 03/05/2007 09:50:33 wrong character
Claska Amarr Magnetar Ltd Dark Synergy	Posted - 2007.05.03 09:54:00 - [12] on the test server i almost beat a Vulture with my mrmidon but had T1 ogers, if i had T2 ogers he would have died, i can use T2 ogers on TQ though :D
Gaia Thorn Villains	Posted - 2007.05.03 10:03:00 - [13] If that is the case the vulture pilot should be shoot tbh. Ive seen a vulture tank 2 carriers so a myrmiddon shouldnt be a problem.
Claska Amarr Magnetar Ltd Dark Synergy	Posted - 2007.05.03 10:06:00 - [14] well, i had good resists, and nossing him (3 diminishing), so i was mainly tank with drone gank ( over 3 mill in drones)and 2 armour reps, i got him to about 30% shields and that was it, but i lost a drone so i got a big chunk of DPS taken out, but if i had T2 drones he would have gone down fast, plus i had 2 Hypnos multispec so i could get back quickly the damage he did.
Gaia Thorn Villains	Posted - 2007.05.03 10:37:00 - [15] Yet again he should be strung up and then shoot. If you get a vulture down to 30% shields with 4 t1 ogres then he must have had a travel fitting on or something.
ry ry StateCorp	Posted - 2007.05.03 10:38:00 - [16] a few haulers with webs and sensor damps should do the trick.
000Hunter000 Gallente Magners Marauders	Posted - 2007.05.03 11:10:00 - [17] hehe, yeah want to try that vs a NH? by all means, hell fit sum ecm or damp as well But then again, how often do u see 1 vs 1's anymore these days?
Mirasta Aggressive Tendencies	Posted - 2007.05.03 11:36:00 - [18] I have a scrop that takes 2 ships to take down, 2 carriers. And even then they where complaing. It's Different!
BigDave F.S.O.	Posted - 2007.05.03 11:59:00 - [19] I don't see anything wrong with a ship that, solo, is more effective at surviving than killing -- just as there is nothing wrong with a ship that, solo, is better at killing than surviving. It used to be hard to take down a vaga, even with another vaga; they were just too good at getting away. That made the vaga (and hunting vagas) fun. A full-out passive tank on a vulture is tough to take down, but that same vulture would have a hard time killing some cruisers, let alone anything bigger. That isn't imbalance, it's variety. Imbalance would be two ships which do the same thing, but one doing it consistently better (for same cost/skill requirement). Ships doing different things is good for the game. And for all these threads focusing on 1v1 capabilities: some ship designs are intended to encourage TEAMWORK. The whole can be greater than the sum of the parts. ----- Dang, signatures keep getting smaller and smaller, unless you count the bits where ISD colors outside the lines...
Ralara Caldari Lilandri Foundation	Posted - 2007.05.03 12:03:00 - [20] Most BCs can "take down" a vagabond. If it sits still. The Vaga shouldn't be able to take down a BC set up for pvp. If it's zipping about and harrassing, then the BC can chase it away but probably not kill it. Mind, I've been in a ratting setup in a Drake and got a Vaga into structure before they warped off so totally possible. I'm a corp thief. And remember, I only do it because I like your robot. Nice Isk. I'll take it.
xMillz Exploring Blind	Posted - 2007.05.03 12:34:00 - [21] Originally by: ArtemisEntreri Vulture takes 2 ships to take down, also most good passive tanks ships. Im afraid this is not true... I took one down in my Myrm.
WredStorm Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2007.05.03 18:03:00 - [22] Edited by: WredStorm on 03/05/2007 18:00:05 A passive shield tanked Myrmidon, with a couple of shield-related implants (+5% shield hp and -5% shield recharge) and tech II fittings and rigs would require two ships to take down, I think. Setup: Myrmidon: 4xLSE II, 1x DG Invuln, 5x SPR II, 1x PDS II, 3x CDFP II, 2x Implants Shield HP: 19853.27 Shield Regen Time: 87.17 Avg. Regen/sec: 227.75 Peak Regen/sec: 569.38 Resists & Tankable DPS EM = 37.50% = 911 tankable DPS EX = 75.00% = 2278 tankable DPS KI = 62.50% = 1518 tankable DPS TH = 50.00% = 1139 tankable DPS Average = 1461 tankable DPS This is with all relevant shield skills at 5. You could get higher numbers by swapping out the PDS II for a SPR II, but then you'd have to NOS in order to run the DG Invuln forever... the setting above can run forever (assuming skill 4 in the appropriate Capacitor skills). You could also throw on another DG Invuln instead of an LSE II to get even higher numbers, but again you'd not be able to run both DGs non-stop without having a NOS as part of your setup. You are vulnerable to NOS with the above setup (your DG would shut down), but you can choose to pack 6 NOS in your High Slots, which would suck 36 cap/sec for you. The main problems with such a setup, though, are that the Myrmidon's drones (it's primary and possibly only source of damage) are very vunerable to attack. Without an AB/MWD you can't dictate range, so you can't be sure of being able to scoop them. You also have no web nor scram so your opponent can choose to leave anytime they want. So yes, this would probably require two ships to take it down, but its not that great when it comes to overall functionality. Wred ----- Think out of the box, consider passive shield tanking your Myrmidon, you'll be pleasantly surprised!
Auron Shadowbane	Posted - 2007.05.03 18:23:00 - [23] every well piloted ship that doesn't start off with some sort of dissadvantage takes more than 1 hostile ship to kill. if a vaga starts 5km from a dual webbed, sensor boosted gankathron its dead too. if a ceptor doesnt want to take risks he won't be killed by any sole ship either. if a BS fits for all out tank it will be very hard to kill by any solo-non capital ship (tank + 6 nos +2 smartbombs + cap injector; kill that with 1 non-capship. if you take NOS completely out of the picture its the same, but with dual LAR and capacitor rechargers, rigs and stuff). hardest ships to kill basically are cloakers, high speed ships and capitals. first two classes dont do too much damage and last one is just plain capital (meaning moeny) advantage to its best.
Steppa Gallente Incognito Inc	Posted - 2007.05.03 18:32:00 - [24] Originally by: Kate Nexus capital ships are too strong Pardon the flame, but you're smoking rope. Dreadnaughts are little use in fleet battles except against other cap ships. Carriers, until just recently, were expensive isk sinks if sent into battle and boring POS campers if delegating fighters. The recent changes, at least, make them more of the superships they should be. None of them can operate solo and thus become more of the nucleus of a fleet with ample support. They both require and encourage teamwork.
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.05.03 18:33:00 - [25] Edited by: Kweel Nakashyn on 03/05/2007 18:30:04 omg Tiatannz runaways !! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This one. ----- History is made by whinners Originally by: DB Preacher (...) Ignore what the coalition muppets are saying on their forums (...)
sakana North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.05.03 18:59:00 - [26] Vagabond is hard to take down, but does a bit less damage than some of the other HACs, so its balanced. Vulture is hard to take down but does about the same damage as a caracal, so its balanced. ------------
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.05.03 19:29:00 - [27] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 03/05/2007 19:25:21 I killed a curse in a vagabond once, but only because he was stupid enough to get within my web range. I mean, why would anyone sit 10k from a vagabond in a curse? Interesting stuff. :) --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune
Orion Eridanus Dark Nova Crisis	Posted - 2007.05.03 19:38:00 - [28] A vulture does not need two ships to take down, all you need is a stiletto, dont beleive me ask Savesti Kyrsst(stiletto pilot) or Scrutt5( vulture pilot)
grappler Divine Retribution	Posted - 2007.05.04 10:26:00 - [29] cant seem to kill punishers and kessies without at least some carrier support
Hadwin Caldari Universal Army	Posted - 2007.05.04 10:31:00 - [30] HEY CCP!!! VAGABOND!! Two words... FIX IT FFS No ship should be as invincible as the Vagabond currently is. Now, I am well aware of the fact that a Curse can NOS it into submission, or a Huginn can web it from a great distance... but what can Caldari or Gallente do to it? I've got the answer... f*** all! That's what! Nerf this ship ASAP. Hadders
Noluck Ned FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.04 10:43:00 - [31] My Dominix(when I fit for pvp) F4T4L Recruitment
DarkFenix Caldari Pilots Of Honour	Posted - 2007.05.04 10:47:00 - [32] Edited by: DarkFenix on 04/05/2007 10:44:42 Edited by: DarkFenix on 04/05/2007 10:44:08 Originally by: Hadwin No ship should be as invincible as the Vagabond currently is. Now, I am well aware of the fact that a Curse can NOS it into submission, or a Huginn can web it from a great distance... but what can Caldari or Gallente do to it? I've got the answer... f*** all! That's what! Nerf this ship ASAP. Hadders What can Caldari and Gallente do? They can train for another race's ships. You're not limited to flying one race fyi. I mean, let's take the Curse for example. How many race specific skills does it use? One. Amarr Cruiser. It does damage with drones - which you should have trained anyway. It armour tanks - which the Gallente do anyway and isn't much training for Caldari. And it uses nos - which you should have trained anyway. So, with learning skill to a decent level (which you should have trained anyway), that's all of 3 weeks training. Oh and on topic: A better question to ask is "Can ships of equivalent value take down ship 'x'?" A good measure of what counters what, is the ability to take down an expensive ship, using cheaper ships.
Zaphod Jones Minmatar Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.05.04 11:52:00 - [33] Originally by: Hadwin HEY CCP!!! ... but what can Caldari or Gallente do to it? I've got the answer... f*** all! That's what! Nerf this ship ASAP. Hadders "... what can Caldari or Gallente do to it" they can adapt if they cant adapt they die ( i didnt want to quote evolution corp motto - even if true) zomg i'm caldari, my mission whoring raven cant kill everyship in game - oh noes the sky is falling down Celtic Anarchy is recruiting
Shining Shadow Business Associates	Posted - 2007.05.04 11:59:00 - [34] Originally by: Zaphod Jones Originally by: Hadwin HEY CCP!!! ... but what can Caldari or Gallente do to it? I've got the answer... f*** all! That's what! Nerf this ship ASAP. Hadders "... what can Caldari or Gallente do to it" they can adapt if they cant adapt they die ( i didnt want to quote evolution corp motto - even if true) zomg i'm caldari, my mission whoring raven cant kill everyship in game - oh noes the sky is falling down Get 2x 90% webs on a vaga and it's dead if you fly any half decent pvp ship. If the Vaga pilot is clever enough to stay out of web range then it's another matter.
Emily Emmerson	Posted - 2007.12.03 23:46:00 - [35] one hac shouldn't need 2 ships to take down
Vitrael Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.12.03 23:56:00 - [36] Originally by: Hadwin No ship should be as invincible as the Vagabond currently is. Now, I am well aware of the fact that a Curse can NOS it into submission, or a Huginn can web it from a great distance... but what can Caldari or Gallente do to it? 1.a Actually Drakes, Ravens, and Cerbs, given that they are not tanked stupidly, can positively slaughter Vagabonds while they are not MWDing (read: while they are shooting you) and are either forced to run or die. If a Vaga gets webbed by any of these ships it's toast. 1.b Blasterboats can MWD into the orbits of Vaga pilots who use manual orbit and easily web them. 1.c Anybody can use damps, ECM, or (especially) tracking disruptors to totally nullify a Vagabond. Any battleship pilot can fit heavy neuts and completely ruin things for it. 2. Not every ship should be easily counterable by at least four other ships from the separate races. Just because a fast, ranged ship like the Vagabond has an obvious advantage against the FOTM Gallente doesn't mean it should be nerfed. Finally if you want the true "no ship should be as invincible..." it's the nano-ishtar, which often deals three or four times as much damage at orbit range as the Vagabond while being a little slower at best.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2007.12.04 00:05:00 - [37] Originally by: Hadwin HEY CCP!!! VAGABOND!! Two words... FIX IT FFS No ship should be as invincible as the Vagabond currently is. Now, I am well aware of the fact that a Curse can NOS it into submission, or a Huginn can web it from a great distance... but what can Caldari or Gallente do to it? I've got the answer... f*** all! That's what! Nerf this ship ASAP. Hadders team work.... wtf ccp sometimes i want to solopwn everything!!!!!!!!
VaderDSL Caldari Personal Vendetta	Posted - 2007.12.04 00:06:00 - [38] Originally by: Claska on the test server i almost beat a Vulture with my mrmidon but had T1 ogers, if i had T2 ogers he would have died, i can use T2 ogers on TQ though :D makes no difference T1 to T2 Ogres on 93% thermal resistance
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.12.04 00:20:00 - [39] A capital ship should take more than just one other ship to take down Two "properly" fit capitals fighting usually means a stand-off. C\|S\|I\|N\|x.
Oregon sinful The Ankou The Reckoning.	Posted - 2007.12.04 02:18:00 - [40] I'm not a vaga Pilot. I'm a gallente pilot. 1 module, (very easy to skill for) is all you have to have fit to kill a vaga, that's a web. I've killed vaga's in a Lachesis, Arazu, Domi, Megat, Brutix, Myrmidon, even in a Vexor solo ffs. I killed them with a web and an mwd. Don't tell me they're overpowered because they have escape ability and you can't catch him. I can't fly a single minmatard ship, and I say meh, keep 'em coming guys, just another ship to kill. Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes POST WITH YOUR MAIN OR STFU
Greebus	Posted - 2007.12.04 13:02:00 - [41] LOL @ vagabonds vs Amarr recons My auto cannons don't use cap and I don't fit to rep armour or shield thus making my cap useless - bring it on
Raneru Darwin With Attitude oooh Shiny	Posted - 2007.12.04 13:07:00 - [42] Megathrons can take down vagabonds. Come to think of it, most ships at Hac level or above should be able to do it. It all depends on pilot skill. There is no "ship x cant take down ship y", it all depends on circumstance. I've seen ceptors and AF take out BS solo.
N1fty Amarr Galactic Shipyards Inc HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2007.12.04 13:09:00 - [43] Originally by: Greebus LOL @ vagabonds vs Amarr recons My auto cannons don't use cap and I don't fit to rep armour or shield thus making my cap useless - bring it on Yes but try staying out of scram / web range without being able to activate your MWD. Also tracking disruption will turn your capless guns into lols. The Curse was built to take out Minnies; racial enemy and all that. Best a vaga can do against a Curse is GTFO. Which isn't guaranteed to happen with an overheated T2 scram or faction. á ============================================

ISD Valorem Amarr ISD STAR	Posted - 2007.12.04 13:11:00 - [44] please do not bump old threads. click forum rules \| CAOD Rules \| [email protected] \| Our Website

realbadman	Posted - 2007.12.04 13:23:00 - [45] I am deeply saddened by the lack of intelligent people here. There are a lot of ships i can tank forever in my shuttle OMG!!!1!*****ZZZ!1 Nerf teh Shuttlez! whiny crybabies because you can't kill a vaga. the only trick a vaga has is that it can run away. btw, run away!=win fight vaga's are great at weeding out the weak and the ignorant.

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