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Gorion Wassenar
Caldari
Tsurokigaarai
APEX Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.05.03 03:26:00 -
[1]
These neeed to be looked at soon. They had trouble before the HP boost a few months back and since then I haven't even heard rumors of people using them. Something needs to be done to make these ships even worth flying again since they can barely kill a t1 fitted frigate ( even then with high risk ) and against anything else they're toast. I just want to know someone at CCP is thinking of this poor neglected ship and how to make it usefull again.
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*results may vary*
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Marduk Felzhen
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Posted - 2007.05.03 03:35:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Marduk Felzhen on 03/05/2007 03:32:12
i once tried to take one in a bantam and i died. Morale*: SB's are super duper
*Doh, i fail spelling: Moral
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6Bagheera9
Shadows of the Dead
Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.03 03:39:00 -
[3]
Get 10 of them and a couple of force-recons to tackle. You can paralyze an entire constellation.
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0raven0
OUTLAWZ IMMORTAL
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Posted - 2007.05.03 04:30:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: 6Bagheera9
Get 10 of them and a couple of force-recons to tackle. You can paralyze an entire constellation.
Get 10 of almost anything and a couple force recons and you can paralyze an entire constellation.
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Quote:
tuxford: AT LEAST ITS SPEELED CORRECTLY
tuxford: spelled*
Oveur: rofl
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Halock
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Posted - 2007.05.03 05:08:00 -
[5]
Can thoose 10 non cloaked ships avoid the inevitable blob they will come to gank them though?
I would love to see SB's get some love, but they arn't nearly as broken as most people say they are, though the gap between manticore and the others is a little sad :(
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Max Hardcase
Art of War
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.05.03 06:53:00 -
[6]
Get half of that number of cloaked recons instead of the stealthbombers and you can lock that constellation down much more efficiently.
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Bentula
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Posted - 2007.05.03 07:49:00 -
[7]
I agree, i never see those stealth bombers used. I see AFs, and ceptors the whole time, coverts too, ofc you dont see them but you know they are there  . But i really never saw a stealth bomber ever in 0.0.
You probably are more likely to meet a titan than a stealth bomber nowadays, that tells everything about their usefulness.
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LordInvisible
Gallente
adeptus gattacus
Praesidium Libertatis
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Posted - 2007.05.03 08:12:00 -
[8]
its uselessness is known for over 3 years now..
They just rather add stuff then repair broken one.
I've beat one SB in my firetail one day..and we started 45km apart..
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.05.03 08:31:00 -
[9]
Originally by: 0raven0
Originally by: 6Bagheera9
Get 10 of them and a couple of force-recons to tackle. You can paralyze an entire constellation.
Get 10 of almost anything and a couple force recons and you can paralyze an entire constellation.
Indeed. And that's the point really. Yes, a flock of stealth bombers are pretty cool, and they have a few nice tricks.
Unfortunately, in almost every situation I've used a stealth bomber, some other ship would have done ... well whatever it was, better.
Stealths suck, because their niche is way too narrow to be useful, and they're outclassed. I've seen devposts that indicate that they are aware of this problem, and it's on the to-do list.
The problem with stealths, is they don't really have a role in EVE combat as it is today. Mobile harassment ships? Well, they're not that mobile, they don't do that much damage, and they're made of tinfoil.
Sitting, waiting for food? Oh yes, that's definitely what EVE needs. More gatecamping :).
Unfortunately the only things that would make these ships 'good' would also move them into the realms of 'overpowering'.
I suspect what we will see is a rethink of the role. I wouldn't be too surprised to find they actually become _bombers_ dealing AOE damage with a new variant of torpedo or something.
Now that _would_ be cool.
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Bentula
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Posted - 2007.05.03 08:36:00 -
[10]
Originally by: LordInvisible
its uselessness is known for over 3 years now..
They just rather add stuff then repair broken one.
I've beat one SB in my firetail one day..and we started 45km apart..
It only got worse, now we have combat ships that can warp cloaked, and move at full speed cloaked while being able to engage ships 2 classes above them.Compared to them bombers are crap, you cant scout in a bomber, and you can only kill frigs and haulers. Haulers and frigs however dont usually run around alone in belts(and t2 haulers will only laugh about you), and at gates you would be better off with a AF or inty.
I honestly cant think of a single situation where i would say, lets take a few bombers instead of BS/HAC/CS/Inty/AF/Dictor/Covert/Recon. Imho they need to be able to warp cloaked and fire 4 cruise each, then maybe i would take a bomber over a harpy for example, but never over a Inty or Dictor.
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6Bagheera9
Shadows of the Dead
Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.03 10:00:00 -
[11]
In response to above... Yes those 10 SBs can avoid a larger blob as long as you make sure you only linger in systems with multiple gates. And while it is true that gang of recons will be able lock down almost any target, they may find themselves short the dps to kill it before reinforcements arrive. SBs are kinda meh, but don't go running around saying they are completely useless.
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Starraker
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Posted - 2007.05.03 10:44:00 -
[12]
Stealth bombers do have a role in EVE:
To take out other stealth bombers.
I love the irony in this, the only thing a SB can kill in one volley is another SB. Because of the low HP, high sg radius and insane aligning time. ANd the fact they are untankable.
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Hayward Cyprus
Caldari
Exiled.
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Posted - 2007.05.03 12:02:00 -
[13]
Stealthbombers are pretty good at making Safespots too
Hayward Cyprus
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Kazuo Ishiguro
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Posted - 2007.05.03 13:25:00 -
[14]
From reading around, I gather that a fix is due this summer as part of Revelations 2. Exactly what form it will take is anyone's guess, but references to 'big bombs' have been made...
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Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant tanking |
Bentula
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Posted - 2007.05.03 13:36:00 -
[15]
Originally by: 6Bagheera9
In response to above... Yes those 10 SBs can avoid a larger blob as long as you make sure you only linger in systems with multiple gates. And while it is true that gang of recons will be able lock down almost any target, they may find themselves short the dps to kill it before reinforcements arrive. SBs are kinda meh, but don't go running around saying they are completely useless.
Huh? Are we taking about the same recons that get in excess of 200dps in case of the amarr ones for example? I can guarantee you that that recons have far superior firepower than SBs, even those without combat boni. People tend to forget how horrible SBs dps is, you get maybe 30 dps out of each launcher, and frig turrets aint impressive either.
And if you think there is anything SBs are good at(and that means compared to other ships), please tell me. I would love to take out my nemesis and to anything with it that it doesnt suck at horribly. Since you say they are not completly useless, please tell me what they are useful for that doesnt get done way better by a covert ops, a dictor, or a recon. T2 ships are supposed to be specialized, whats the specilization of SBs?
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Hugh Ruka
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.05.03 13:46:00 -
[16]
hmmm one question... let's say we have a gang of 6-8 SBs and a covops scout.
the scout finds a mining op, takes a convenient position and the gang warps to him. I think they will end in a tight pack which will immediately decloack them ... right ?
I wan't a submarine class ship ... something like a stelath caracal :-)
Originally by: JP Beauregard
The experience with Exodus playtesting has scarred me for life. Those were bug-reports, not feature requests, you numbskulls.... 
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.05.03 14:00:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Hugh Ruka
hmmm one question... let's say we have a gang of 6-8 SBs and a covops scout.
the scout finds a mining op, takes a convenient position and the gang warps to him. I think they will end in a tight pack which will immediately decloack them ... right ?
I wan't a submarine class ship ... something like a stelath caracal :-)
No, because your stealth bombers can't warp cloaked.
Recons, you might have this problem. The solution is to divvy up warp ranges and vectors beforehand, e.g. split your gang across the belts in system, and check you're not all warping in at the same range.
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Hugh Ruka
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.05.03 14:03:00 -
[18]
Originally by: James Lyrus
Originally by: Hugh Ruka
hmmm one question... let's say we have a gang of 6-8 SBs and a covops scout.
the scout finds a mining op, takes a convenient position and the gang warps to him. I think they will end in a tight pack which will immediately decloack them ... right ?
I wan't a submarine class ship ... something like a stelath caracal :-)
No, because your stealth bombers can't warp cloaked.
Recons, you might have this problem. The solution is to divvy up warp ranges and vectors beforehand, e.g. split your gang across the belts in system, and check you're not all warping in at the same range.
right, I forgot they can't fit covops cloaks ...
Originally by: JP Beauregard
The experience with Exodus playtesting has scarred me for life. Those were bug-reports, not feature requests, you numbskulls....
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Starraker
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Posted - 2007.05.03 14:59:00 -
[19]
Just a silly idea I just had:
Why not give every SB another weapon system, with corresponding bonus.
So the minmatar one gets to fit 3 large Arties.
The Gallente gets to fit 3 large rails.
And the ammar one gets 3 Large beam lasers.
Of course the caldari one stays the same.
Give them pg bonus just as for the cruise and a cap use bonus to compensate for the frig cap amount. Also they need a resolution bonus so they can hit small stuff. no tracking bonus though to not make them overpowered.
They will still suck, but in exciting new ways 
3 of those should equal a sniping BS, only with less dps and tracking/range, because you cant fit 3 damage mods and 3 tracking comps
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welsh wizard
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.05.03 15:04:00 -
[20]
One fast inty could kill 10 pretty easily even if hes painted to hell. :P
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Lithalnas
Amarr
Hadean Drive Yards
Archaean Cooperative
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Posted - 2007.05.03 15:25:00 -
[21]
stealth bombers should be able to mount 1 siege launcher.
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Hadean Drive Yards
The EvE inflation, 80 Macro miners, 1.5b isk/day |
xenodia
Gallente
RONA Corporation
RONA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.03 16:24:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Gorion Wassenar
These neeed to be looked at soon. They had trouble before the HP boost a few months back and since then I haven't even heard rumors of people using them. Something needs to be done to make these ships even worth flying again since they can barely kill a t1 fitted frigate ( even then with high risk ) and against anything else they're toast. I just want to know someone at CCP is thinking of this poor neglected ship and how to make it usefull again.
I can think of several people in my corp who 1 shot T1 frigates in their manticore. Its against anything else that they suck, except in packs. And if youre going to get 5 or 6 people together in a gang anyway, you might as well take more useful ships unless you just like the "neat factor" of using something different.
http://www.eve-ronacorp.com
RONA Corp is Recruiting |
xenodia
Gallente
RONA Corporation
RONA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.03 16:28:00 -
[23]
Originally by: James Lyrus
Originally by: 0raven0
Originally by: 6Bagheera9
Get 10 of them and a couple of force-recons to tackle. You can paralyze an entire constellation.
Get 10 of almost anything and a couple force recons and you can paralyze an entire constellation.
Indeed. And that's the point really. Yes, a flock of stealth bombers are pretty cool, and they have a few nice tricks.
Unfortunately, in almost every situation I've used a stealth bomber, some other ship would have done ... well whatever it was, better.
Stealths suck, because their niche is way too narrow to be useful, and they're outclassed. I've seen devposts that indicate that they are aware of this problem, and it's on the to-do list.
The problem with stealths, is they don't really have a role in EVE combat as it is today. Mobile harassment ships? Well, they're not that mobile, they don't do that much damage, and they're made of tinfoil.
Sitting, waiting for food? Oh yes, that's definitely what EVE needs. More gatecamping :).
Unfortunately the only things that would make these ships 'good' would also move them into the realms of 'overpowering'.
I suspect what we will see is a rethink of the role. I wouldn't be too surprised to find they actually become _bombers_ dealing AOE damage with a new variant of torpedo or something.
Now that _would_ be cool.
Yeah the 2 most common ideas for improving stealth bombers are either A) give them the covert ops cloak or B) to allow them to lock targets while cloaked. Both of these ideas would probably make them overpowered unless combined with some sort of nerf.
http://www.eve-ronacorp.com
RONA Corp is Recruiting |
Ferno
Aggressive Tendencies
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Posted - 2007.05.03 16:46:00 -
[24]
I read in resent Dev blog that there thinking of putting in AOE weapons (not sure if thats dmg or EW or both) to discourage blobbing.
I carnt think of a better ship then the SB to carry such a weapon.
It will give the ship a role and the stealth option will meen that your NME will never know if you have one or not. So hopefully reduce blobbing in general.
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Kyoko Sakoda
Caldari
Omerta Syndicate
Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.05.03 17:16:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Kyoko Sakoda on 03/05/2007 17:12:51
I wanted to be a bomber specialist. I don't regret training Covert Ops V anymore but I'll tell you I did when I first stepped into one of these things!
I'd like to see the current stealth ("u-boat") bombers become the anti-blob, AoE weapons. Decloak at a fair distance, fire, and recloak, and hopefully break up the blob or at least soften some of the ships. I don't think these ships should be disallowed from using the Covert Ops cloak, as fitting the launchers would not allow for a scan probe launcher (220tf) and they don't get the scanning bonuses a traditional Covert Ops does.
It would also be nice to see a second, lighter bomber, not intended to use a cloak at all. They would fit an MWD and be about as fast as a normal interdictor, maybe a tad slower. One Citadel Torpedo launcher with the correct bonuses. These things would have rather pathetic cargo capacity: only enough to carry one more reload of these massive charges. If done right, these bombers would be best used in packs, and would be preferred (with interceptor escort) over inty swarms for taking down single battleships.
Just some ideas my corpmates and I were discussing. :D
Learn what it means to be Caldari with Omerta Syndicate |
Gorion Wassenar
Caldari
Tsurokigaarai
APEX Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.05.03 18:29:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Gorion Wassenar on 03/05/2007 18:26:12
I've heard several interesting idea's to make them better. Retain lock while cloaked, huge ROF bonus but low ammo and 30 sec reload. To know at least something is coming to supposedly make them better is a nice to keep in mind but a stopgap until that time would be appreciated.
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*results may vary*
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Caletha Reborn
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Posted - 2007.05.03 19:05:00 -
[27]
Just ditch the cruise launchers, and put citadel torpedo launchers on it
As they are now, the damage they output just isnt in line with other ships that do have a tank, and all the 'other goodies'. So either let them have a bigger tank (which doesnt fit the ship), or increase their damage a LOT.
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Okapir
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Posted - 2007.05.03 19:17:00 -
[28]
You don't by any chance have a SB BP?
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Kamen
SRBI
Circle 0f Two
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Posted - 2007.05.03 20:48:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Kamen on 03/05/2007 20:44:45
I think I got Manticore dps withone BCS and just mediocre skills in missles in QuickFit to 140ish. They can barely compete to missle cruiser dps and only otperform their dps if target is webbed and is small. If something is small and webbed it's dead anyways :/\
Ohh... And I think they can't single-shot a hauler
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Gorion Wassenar
Caldari
Tsurokigaarai
APEX Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.05.03 21:05:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Okapir
You don't by any chance have a SB BP?
Heh, I wish I did. Even for the prices they sell for today is still a retardly high mark up.
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*results may vary*
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