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Varia Net
Caldari
KO Solutions
E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2007.05.06 21:17:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Varia Net on 06/05/2007 21:15:05
is ruining the game for me A LOT
and I'm not the only one.
T1 ship prices, T2 ship prices, faction ship prices...
they've all become worth only a fraction of what they were like 4 months ago.
Not to speak of T2 modules.
The market is a mess,
the oridinary players, who don't got the new BPOs first hand,
as a friend's gift to a favored corp or alliance,
come to late, and meet a flooded market.
The market is broke,
and the deflation is making my assets worth a lot less than before.
If the assets' value is not guaranteed,
I won't be bothered much longer to collect more of them in this game.
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ry ry
StateCorp
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Posted - 2007.05.06 21:22:00 -
[2]
Edited by: ry ry on 06/05/2007 21:20:03
eh? cheap t2 is good. the prices were artificially high before. (thanks industrialists!) and hopefully the BPO oligopoly will be broken by invention if we're good boys and girls.
if the deprecation of your tat bothers you that much, sell it now and save the isk. easy.
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Mac Creagors
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Posted - 2007.05.06 21:28:00 -
[3]
I have to agre on this
when I open up my assets implants who just recently go for 200m isk goes for 16m isk.
Zydrine cost before around 4000 each and now around 1000.
Ships not even worth the toilett papper this is ****
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Phrixus Zephyr
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.05.06 21:36:00 -
[4]
Supply and demand.
 Originally by: Benglada
And whos going to tackle for them? Jesus?
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Nymos
Celtic Anarchy
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.05.06 21:38:00 -
[5]
oh right. first people whine about inflation when t2 prices were really insane and certain modules were plain overpriced (cov ops cloak, t2 guns, jenny spitfire's vagabonds etc). people came with the half assed explanation of supply and demand and elaborated pages over pages of worthless economics theory (no i'm not too dumb for it, i studied that).
i do agree that t2 loot really isn't worth a lot anymore for a pvper/pirate. but that might be caused by invention and additional bpos. isn't that what people wanted? cheap t2? t2 for the masses and not a few snobs? pfft
ccp is trying to reduce the isk inflow according to their blogs. which means, something dropped from 5m to 2m now, later it might still be 2m, but those 2m are worth more because your income is reduced. "your income" is open for debate... it will nerf some people more than others.
--
Every time a carebear dies an angel gets their wings (murder one)
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Shakuul
Caldari
The Imperial Commonwealth
The Sundering
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Posted - 2007.05.06 21:44:00 -
[6]
In a free market, asset prices change (surprise surprise). They DID announce that invention would be added, you could have sold T2 assets then if you expected the deflation, without major losses, but you didn't.
As to T1 assets I'm not sure why the price of low ends has jumped but zyd/nocx have plummeted.
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Frezik
Celtic Anarchy
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.05.06 21:47:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Nymos
oh right. first people whine about inflation when t2 prices were really insane and certain modules were plain overpriced (cov ops cloak, t2 guns, jenny spitfire's vagabonds etc). people came with the half assed explanation of supply and demand and elaborated pages over pages of worthless economics theory (no i'm not too dumb for it, i studied that).
Why was supply and demand an insufficient explanation for the behavior of the majority of the t2 market under the BPO lottery? Yes, you can point to specific examples (like cloaks) that were clearly cartel behavior (and therefore market failures), but that didn't apply to the majority of the market.
I expect a three page essay, due tuesday.
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Onchas
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Posted - 2007.05.06 21:47:00 -
[8]
The OP has to be a troll. It has to be.
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iaikami
IAC Development and Deployment
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.05.06 21:53:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Mac Creagors
I have to agre on this
when I open up my assets implants who just recently go for 200m isk goes for 16m isk.
Zydrine cost before around 4000 each and now around 1000.
Ships not even worth the toilett papper this is ****
you paid to much for your implants to begin with.. this is a normal market correction..
T2 needs to be cheaper. (and yes i own several t2 bpo.) as it increases its use in Combat.. which increases its volume and makes up for the loss in pricing...
basic economic cycle. nothing unexpected at all.
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Kerdrak
Amarr
3B Legio IX
Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2007.05.06 21:53:00 -
[10]
Prices are being fixed, market is fine.
________________________________________
First atheist amarr on EVE |
Varia Net
Caldari
KO Solutions
E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2007.05.06 22:01:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Varia Net on 06/05/2007 21:57:39
Originally by: Shakuul
In a free market, asset prices change (surprise surprise). They DID announce that invention would be added, you could have sold T2 assets then if you expected the deflation, without major losses, but you didn't.
As to T1 assets I'm not sure why the price of low ends has jumped but zyd/nocx have plummeted.
In a real economy, there's something like a national treasury , bank
which uses interest rate to steer economy and market inflation/deflation.
Fact that eve does not have such institution,
while changing game rules with each new patch,
creates an unstable market.
After having allowed the oligopoly, and some selected to become uberwealthy,
we've in just a few months moved to the other extreme
where the regular player now has access to worthless T2 BPOs and production.
Tier 3 BSs, faction BSs, storyline implants...
all have dropped 40% or more in market value.
Nice to see what has become the stupidity of earning isks,
as most of what you buy, becomes worth less.
The market is a mess imo.
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Del Narveux
Obsidian Angels Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.05.06 22:09:00 -
[12]
Yeah, the market is borked but 'deflation' isnt the reason. Theres 3 things going on that have created a sort of perfect storm of isk ownage
1. Big 0.0 war + new drone regions = cheap mass-sold zydrine
2. Invention = cheap t2 prices
3. Invention + salvaging = some miner types are doing missions/cosmos/RD agents now = less highsec miners = higher low end ore prices
_________________
[SAK] Alumnus--And Proud Of It! -- aka Cpt Bogus
Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
Originally by: Wrangler
Well, at least we have forum PvP..
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J'Mkarr Soban
Amarr
Viziam
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Posted - 2007.05.06 22:19:00 -
[13]
Mmm, deflation, really?
A year ago, Machariel, 280m. Now, 650m.
A year ago, Rattlesnake, 500m. Now, 1.2b.
The rare stuff is getting more expensive, and the common stuff is getting cheaper. That's how a market works. Switch from t2 to faction BPs.
-J
---------------------------------
"He who 'hah hahs' last, 'hah hahs' best." - Nelson
Balanced != Nerfed |
Varia Net
Caldari
KO Solutions
E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2007.05.06 22:22:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Varia Net on 06/05/2007 22:23:38
Originally by: J'Mkarr Soban
Mmm, deflation, really?
A year ago, Machariel, 280m. Now, 650m.
A year ago, Rattlesnake, 500m. Now, 1.2b.
The rare stuff is getting more expensive, and the common stuff is getting cheaper. That's how a market works. Switch from t2 to faction BPs.
That is utter nonsense.
A year ago, a Rattlesnake was 2.1b.
Don't know about Machariel.
CNR went from 1.2b to .8b.
Crystal implants dropped 40% as well.
Mindlink implants plummeted.
...
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Red Crown
Kudzu Collective
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.05.06 22:22:00 -
[15]
Folks stop looking at how rich your not and start looking at how rich you no longer have to be.
Not too many months ago people were complaining, legitmatly, that to PvP you had to purchase expensive items (Rigs, T2 Ships and equipment and munitions)and that it was getting very difficult to do casually. This is becoming less and less of a factor. True, Rigs still cost a bit but they have gone down and will continue to do so.
Now rapid deflation like has been happening in the Eveconomy isn't good for any economy, and you should have seen it coming over the past few months.
Your profit margins are hurting, and I don't like this deflation much either ( May mis-balance things like capitals more to major alliances, out of reach of smaller corps ) , but for the average player it isn't all that bad.
-
"The Mains Created the alts
They rebelled
They look...and feel...human
Some are programmed to think they are human
There are many alts.
And they have a plan."
- Forumstar Galactica |
Lithalnas
Amarr
Hadean Drive Yards
Archaean Cooperative
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Posted - 2007.05.06 22:26:00 -
[16]
Nightmares have gone up 200m isk in the last 10 days.
Is the Op supposed to be a Haiku?
-------------
Hadean Drive Yards
The EvE inflation, 80 Macro miners, 1.5b isk/day |
Aleksi Maksimovich
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Posted - 2007.05.06 22:28:00 -
[17]
Red from KOS there has it right.
4 step program to feel less burned by T2 prices.
1. buy a hulk for 200mil (w00t!)
2. buy some t2 strips
3. mine some big juicy veld in a 0.5
4. sell trit for 3.5isk
now get on it already, inflation of low ends is bloody killing me 
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Chesty LaRoue
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Posted - 2007.05.06 22:32:00 -
[18]
Why is it every time I open this forum there's a new thread on how people can make tons of isk easily? 
Put some thought into what you're doing, things flucuate.
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Joebarchuck
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.05.06 22:38:00 -
[19]
I am going to say the OP is just a jerk.
He cares only about himself. I personnaly lost about 1.5 billion in assets with the price drops yet I am convinced it is good for Eve.
The new players needed a break and the prices of T2 ships and mods were not definitely justified.
Who cares about the rich in Eve. The mass is what matters.
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Nymos
Celtic Anarchy
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.05.06 22:42:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Frezik
Originally by: Nymos
oh right. first people whine about inflation when t2 prices were really insane and certain modules were plain overpriced (cov ops cloak, t2 guns, jenny spitfire's vagabonds etc). people came with the half assed explanation of supply and demand and elaborated pages over pages of worthless economics theory (no i'm not too dumb for it, i studied that).
Why was supply and demand an insufficient explanation for the behavior of the majority of the t2 market under the BPO lottery? Yes, you can point to specific examples (like cloaks) that were clearly cartel behavior (and therefore market failures), but that didn't apply to the majority of the market.
I expect a three page essay, due tuesday.
what i meant was that people responded like zombies "supply/demand u noob". of course it is supply and demand, even if a commodity is monopolized, but what if supply was broken?
the problem with t2 was that unlike in the real world people couldn't just invest cash and start researching and producing themselves (now they can). neither could you substitute t2 with something else. in reality if i think starbucks charges too much i go elsewhere. in eve, if you didn't like the prices of t2 425mm rails for 16m a pop you could fit some crappy named guns.
i'm happy this is over. there might emerge a problem with too much supply tho. after all there's more and more people starting a research career and explorers won't stop finding invention stuff. but that's not important, neither is the titan problem. ccp needs to take care of new bugs related to heat. i can only imagine what kind of instapwn setups one can create like with the mwd boost rig.
--
Every time a carebear dies an angel gets their wings (murder one)
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Mr Li
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Posted - 2007.05.06 22:44:00 -
[21]
The market is being corrected, it's not a mess. CCP is also taking measures on how ISK comes to the game i.e. infusion of isk is going down, so the isk is worth more, or at least it will be when more measures are put into place. This is a good thing.
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Frezik
Celtic Anarchy
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.05.06 22:50:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Varia Net
In a real economy, there's something like a national treasury , bank
which uses interest rate to steer economy and market inflation/deflation.
All those things were a result of there being some problem with the economy and people looking for a way to fix it. Banks tended to fail, so in America, FDIC was created to insure that people would get at least some money back if a bank fails.
Governments tend to be very clumsy in managing an economy directly. The more successful government economic programs tend to gently guide behavior. Economy flys high, so increase interest rates to encourage saving. Economy sinks, so decrease interest rates to encourage spending.
The Tech 2 lottery was a large, clumsy attempt by the people who play the role of the Eve government (CCP) to control the economy. The pain of a market correction phase was inevitable when the lottery was no longer the primary means to get into the Tech 2 market, but it will move things to a far better position over time since the supply is no longer so inelastic.
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Frug
Zenithal Harvest
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Posted - 2007.05.06 22:55:00 -
[23]
I like it!
No more 100x markups for t2 bpo holders ftw.
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - -
If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO
BOOO!! - Ductoris
Neat look what I found - Kreul
Hey, my marbles |
Frezik
Celtic Anarchy
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.05.06 22:57:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Nymos
what i meant was that people responded like zombies "supply/demand u noob". of course it is supply and demand, even if a commodity is monopolized, but what if supply was broken?
the problem with t2 was that unlike in the real world people couldn't just invest cash and start researching and producing themselves (now they can).
There are real-world examples where the supply can't get any bigger. Real Estate, for instance. As long as the population of people who want to own land grows, demand for land will always go up, while supply stays the same, excepting advancements in colonizing other worlds. That's what makes land such a great investment.
Quote:
there might emerge a problem with too much supply tho.
Market corrections are rarely instant and painless, of course (despite how the theory looks in economic textbooks--just look at the major housing market correction in the US right now), but an oversupply under the invention system will be counteracted by people getting out of the market when they can't make good margins.
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Makhan
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Posted - 2007.05.06 23:04:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Makhan on 06/05/2007 23:00:42
Boo Frakking Hoo, everybody whined about T2 prices, and this is the outcome. And besides I don't see that big a difference to the value of assets anyway.
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Hellman109
Gallente
Magnetar Ltd
Dark Synergy
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Posted - 2007.05.06 23:11:00 -
[26]
^^ The federal reserve isnt government.
Yep you heard right, the main controller of US finance is a privately owned operation.
Oh, and they dont even log what they say in meetings.
But then again, with the US government how they are, maybe thats a good thing.
Is the sell price of these items below the price to make them? if not, then there are no problems.
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heheheh
Singularity.
The Cartel.
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Posted - 2007.05.06 23:22:00 -
[27]
Im glad its how it is,
Its not broke,
Just not how you want it.
Unlucky dude, you bought those t2 bpos for far too much.
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Taketa De
Gallente
Seneca Federation
Sylph Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.06 23:25:00 -
[28]
I don't think the OP really undertands what inflation/deflation means.
T2 prices were never indicative on inflation/deflation just as Ferrari prices aren't. You can't measure inflation/deflation on luxury items, you need to measure across a lot of base items. So if you want people to take your rants about this seriously, put together a base basket of goods (without luxury items), watch prices changes over time (at least measured in months, prefereably data over 1-1.5 years) and then come back to us about your observations.
Minerals for instance have been a mixed bag with some going up and some going down in worth, which seems to be due to supply/demand issues (just as T2) and not due to changes in the value of the ISK (which is what inflation/deflation is).
However since most things are made out of minerals, changes in mineral prices can of course have inflationary and deflationary effects.
Do a little research, learn what the terms all mean and how to measure them without putting in so much emotional bias and it would be something constructive for the community.
---
The Advanced Drone Control Panel. |
Lysit Kaune
Minmatar
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2007.05.06 23:28:00 -
[29]
I don't see it, at all. Im currently making money off the market and thats only because of the falling prices, and I don't manufactor/loot/salvage for my profit.
Oh, and can I have your stuff?
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mechtech
Entropy Industries
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Posted - 2007.05.06 23:31:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Taketa De
I don't think the OP really undertands what inflation/deflation means.
T2 prices were never indicative on inflation/deflation just as Ferrari prices aren't. You can't measure inflation/deflation on luxury items, you need to measure across a lot of base items. So if you want people to take your rants about this seriously, put together a base basket of goods (without luxury items), watch prices changes over time (at least measured in months, prefereably data over 1-1.5 years) and then come back to us about your observations.
Minerals for instance have been a mixed bag with some going up and some going down in worth, which seems to be due to supply/demand issues (just as T2) and not due to changes in the value of the ISK (which is what inflation/deflation is).
However since most things are made out of minerals, changes in mineral prices can of course have inflationary and deflationary effects.
Do a little research, learn what the terms all mean and how to measure them without putting in so much emotional bias and it would be something constructive for the community.
Well, he might not be totally right from a purely economic standpoint, but it's easy to see what he means.
Isk is generally getting easier and easier to get, and prices have generally been falling fast. Losing a ship just doesn't have the sting that it used to.
I agree, something should be done to lower supply of many implants/T2 items/faction stuff. Also, maybe ships should use more high end minerals, because as it stands, many more high ends are coming from the drone regions than are needed by the market.
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