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Karasuma Akane
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.05.06 23:42:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Varia Net
and the deflation is making my assets worth a lot less than before.
The market is working exactly how it is supposed to. Or did you expect your 'stuff' to magically gain in value while it sat in your hangars? 
You should have sold your precious assets while the prices for them were high (as many T2 producers did, expecting prices to drop precipitously with the advent of Invention), and perhaps bought other/new assets for a low price that you expected to rise in value.
Welcome to Economics 101 and Market PvP, the value of your assets is NOT guaranteed. Or did you also want your ships to magically reassemble themselves after they've been blasted to bits (also guaranteeing your 'asset'). 
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The possibility of successfully navigating an asteroid field is approximately 3,720 to 1. |
Frezik
Celtic Anarchy
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.05.07 00:00:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Hellman109
^^ The federal reserve isnt government.
Yep you heard right, the main controller of US finance is a privately owned operation.
The federal reserve was created by the government. While it might meet the political definition of "government", it qualifies as a government for economic purposes.
Different disciplines often have different definitions for things. It only matters that the definitions are useful and applied consistently within a discipline.
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R3dSh1ft
FIRMA
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Posted - 2007.05.07 00:34:00 -
[33]
space is too crowded
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Frezik
Celtic Anarchy
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.05.07 00:42:00 -
[34]
Originally by: R3dSh1ft
space is too crowded
Space is big
Space is dark
It's hard to find
A place to park
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cesar medina
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Posted - 2007.05.07 00:53:00 -
[35]
I like the fact that the market is droping.
makes it easer for new player to injoy the game more since the market droped I been making a killing buying cheap selling high at low sec system were ships die daily.
and now owning some I thought I would never get any time soon.
now im looking forward to owning my first hulk and such items like that.
To me its GREAT NEWS
hopefully it drops more that I could buy a T2 ship for under 200 mil at least some of them 
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Xiaodown
Lyran Procurement
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Posted - 2007.05.07 01:04:00 -
[36]
Simple solution: If your material assets are increasing in value, convert your liquid into material. If you material assets are DECREASING IN VALUE (what's happening right now in eve with everything from zyd to T2 modules) then convert your material assets into liquid assets.
In short, the decrease in value of modules and minerals can conversely be described as an increase in the value of isk. If you don't want to get hit hard, convert everything you're not using to isk and wait to ride out the wave. If you're lucky, you can be more wealthy in terms of buying power after the deflation. For example, if you sell your T2 X-Large shield booster for X isk, and then in 2 months the price of that module has halved, the same isk value will buy you TWO X-Large T2 shield boosters.
In markets like this, ISK is the best investment. But, the sooner you get in on it, the better. The more people who realize this, the more people who will be liquidating their assets. It will speed the deflation.
~Xiao
--
Lyran procurement is offering trit and mixed-min compression services to 0.0 alliances.
Free transport to 0.5+ systems, 1 jump 0.4 sys for 10M.
Contact me for details. Minimums apply. |
Kylar Renpurs
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Posted - 2007.05.07 01:08:00 -
[37]
Deflation?
I went away for two weeks, while I was away three items i buy in large quantities tripled in price. Am I missing something? 
Improve Market Competition! |
Verone
Gallente
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.05.07 02:08:00 -
[38]
HURRAH FOR INVENTION!
>>> THE BEAUTY OF NEW EDEN <<<
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Cudaya Ebsldes
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Posted - 2007.05.07 02:09:00 -
[39]
First, EVE is not repeat not an economic game. Someone said it best in reply to my alt, Quote:
BTW, I believe the Eve economy and particularly the market to be broken. The Market itself is incredibly broken as a result of its very limited mechanics. It is not a *Free* Market and Eve's economy is not a *Free* economy. At best, it is a "Planned Economy" and a "Directed Market", and suffers the expected consequences.
I have no desire to revive this short thread as it turns into everyones desire to manage an already mangled econmic system?
I personally have given up on this aspect of EVE and on EVE in general.
There in short is no value to isk. There is no value in relation of one article to another. All is constantly in flux, a flux not caused by the players actions but by the devs adding content without linking it to anything other than the seeming idea of scarcity or their desire to influence PVP game play (with a bone or two (or is it a misdirectiion)thrown to PVE).
Have a nice day. (I really hate that term)
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Kylar Renpurs
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Posted - 2007.05.07 02:18:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Cudaya Ebsldes
I have no desire to revive this short thread as it turns into everyones desire to manage an already mangled econmic system?
Thus the linkage in my quote :) </shameless promotion>
But what someone said is right,, the deflation of item prices is actually an increase in the value of isk, since people have been complaining about the decreasing value of isk.
Further, i'm glad to see prices crashing because this'll push in room for more levels of tech,,, my concern being that if there ever was Tech 3 it'd be at officer-costs considering the scale of tech 2 costs.
Improve Market Competition! |
Emolayshun
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Posted - 2007.05.07 02:28:00 -
[41]
Another way to look at is that the massive profit margin for a handful of people is crashing, resulting in significantly cheaper t2 ships and modules for the average player. I still make more or less the same money belt ratting or missioning that I did 4 months ago, but it costs me far less to t2 outfit a ship now.
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.05.07 02:43:00 -
[42]
the death of the few for the good of the many
hurrah !
____ __ ________
_sig below_
the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
BluOrange
Gallente
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
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Posted - 2007.05.07 04:12:00 -
[43]
In my opinion, the reason why the market is such a mess is because the penalties for bad business practices in EVE are far far milder than in the real world.
Manufacturers are failing to do any meaningful market research and are often selling ships for less than their mineral value. In the real world, business like that are closed down by their creditors or otherwise disappear off the map. But EVE is a sandbox, and no matter how badly you play, you don't get kicked out of the game.
However, it's not difficult to make money in EVE if you do a little homework. You just have to look beyond the obvious.
------
Agony Unleashed is recruiting. www.agony-unleashed.com
Some people kill for money. Some people kill for politics. Some people kill for religion. I kill because it's fun. |
J Valkor
NayTech Inc
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Posted - 2007.05.07 04:17:00 -
[44]
You gambled and lost. Congrats.
I bought Nighthawks before CCP fixed them.
I gambled and won.
So it goes.
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Soulesk
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Posted - 2007.05.07 04:49:00 -
[45]
With the decrease in the prices this leads to more fights in Eve, I hate to say it but when it costs more to buy 1 mod like a PDU II than the ship itself it kinda deters you from wanting to risk it fighting someone.
The lower the prices become the better it will be for the Eve economy because I believe the ideology is to reduce prices to increase more battles which leads to an increase in the demand of modules.
Hopefully prices will continue to decrease for some items that are still too highly priced but I believe it will balance out in time.
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Sakura Nihil
Tabula Rasa Systems
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.05.07 04:55:00 -
[46]
To be honest, right now its a pilot's market, cheap BSs and BCs are sweet from my perspective  .
And to be fair, if people don't like it, they can try something else. The number of miners will decrease, and less minerals will be mined, meaning smaller supplies to balance out mineral prices again. Same concept with builders, the market will regulate itself.
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Tonkin
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.05.07 05:10:00 -
[47]
the bpo holders the market hoes are not laughing anymore
besides i can buy more ships to pew pew in.
YAY NEW REGIONS AND YAY TO INVENTION
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Shakuul
Caldari
The Imperial Commonwealth
The Sundering
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Posted - 2007.05.07 06:41:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Varia Net
In a real economy, there's something like a national treasury , bank
which uses interest rate to steer economy and market inflation/deflation.
Fact that eve does not have such institution,
while changing game rules with each new patch,
creates an unstable market.
After having allowed the oligopoly, and some selected to become uberwealthy, we've in just a few months moved to the other extreme
where the regular player now has access to worthless T2 BPOs and production.
Tier 3 BSs, faction BSs, storyline implants...
all have dropped 40% or more in market value.
Nice to see what has become the stupidity of earning isks,
as most of what you buy, becomes worth less.
The market is a mess imo.
The real world has devices to control deflation because in the real world deflation is bad, since it discourages lending, which lowers production, and so on. In EVE, there is no lending, because you can't reliably collect on loans, so I don't see how "deflation" would be a problem in EVE.
Sure, assets become worth less, but I don't see how that makes the game less fun for everyone. In general, cheaper ships mean more people can access and enjoy them.
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Chewan Mesa
coracao ardente
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.05.07 06:48:00 -
[49]
lol?
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MissyDark
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Posted - 2007.05.07 07:57:00 -
[50]
Edited by: MissyDark on 07/05/2007 07:53:40
Originally by: Varia Net
Edited by: Varia Net on 06/05/2007 21:15:05
is ruining the game for me A LOT
and I'm not the only one.
Good!
Originally by: Varia Net
T1 ship prices, T2 ship prices, faction ship prices...
they've all become worth only a fraction of what they were like 4 months ago.
Not to speak of T2 modules.
Your loss is my gain. I need to worry less about isk to keep pvp going.
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Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc.
INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.05.07 07:57:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Shakuul
Originally by: Varia Net
In a real economy, there's something like a national treasury , bank
which uses interest rate to steer economy and market inflation/deflation.
Fact that eve does not have such institution,
while changing game rules with each new patch,
creates an unstable market.
After having allowed the oligopoly, and some selected to become uberwealthy, we've in just a few months moved to the other extreme
where the regular player now has access to worthless T2 BPOs and production.
Tier 3 BSs, faction BSs, storyline implants...
all have dropped 40% or more in market value.
Nice to see what has become the stupidity of earning isks,
as most of what you buy, becomes worth less.
The market is a mess imo.
The real world has devices to control deflation because in the real world deflation is bad, since it discourages lending, which lowers production, and so on. In EVE, there is no lending, because you can't reliably collect on loans, so I don't see how "deflation" would be a problem in EVE.
Sure, assets become worth less, but I don't see how that makes the game less fun for everyone. In general, cheaper ships mean more people can access and enjoy them.
Actually deflation is still bad without lending because it also discourages consumption, lower consumption then leads to more deflation, which leads to excess stock and recession potentially. Of course, since Eve lacks certain mechanisms in the production department (no price for storage, no continuing costs for empire production and no unemployment) as well has a natural motivator for consumption through PvP that changes a bit, but deflation is not 'just a good thing' for Eve. Of course, personally I am very happy with lower T2 prices
signature removed - please contact us to find out why (include the URL of your sig) - Jacques([email protected]) |
Suada
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Posted - 2007.05.07 08:33:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Varia Net
Edited by: Varia Net on 06/05/2007 21:15:05
is ruining the game for me A LOT
and I'm not the only one.
T1 ship prices, T2 ship prices, faction ship prices...
they've all become worth only a fraction of what they were like 4 months ago.
Not to speak of T2 modules.
The market is a mess,
the oridinary players, who don't got the new BPOs first hand,
as a friend's gift to a favored corp or alliance,
come to late, and meet a flooded market.
The market is broke,
and the deflation is making my assets worth a lot less than before.
If the assets' value is not guaranteed,
I won't be bothered much longer to collect more of them in this game.
Umm.. Deflation makes money more valuable because your money has more purchasing power. I've never heard anyone complain about deflation. Dropping prices is a good thing. You should complain when prices are steadily increasing (inflation), because your money is worth less. |
Suada
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Posted - 2007.05.07 08:45:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Shakuul
The real world has devices to control deflation because in the real world deflation is bad, since it discourages lending, which lowers production, and so on. In EVE, there is no lending, because you can't reliably collect on loans, so I don't see how "deflation" would be a problem in EVE.
Deflation is ALWAYS better than inflation in the real world. Deflation = more purchasing power. It doesn't hurt the economy or the consumer. Inflation is almost always bad because the value of your money drops, which makes you have to spend more (or borrow money) in order to afford things as the price climbs. The ONLY time inflation is healthy is when demand is larger than the supply on specific goods or services. The Fed constantly manipulating the value of the dollar is going to backfire 100 fold and everyone is going to suffer for it.
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Angelica Krem
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Posted - 2007.05.07 08:47:00 -
[54]
oh god, this has to be a troll.
Im not the only one sighing with relief that I dont have to grind isk as much to get some of the equipment I need, now I can actually play the game instead of focusing on maintaining a healthy income to afford playing the game.
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Lady Beauvoir
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Posted - 2007.05.07 08:48:00 -
[55]
I really fail to see how "the market is a mess" or "deflation is causing my assets worth a lot less than before".
I'm a trade alt. I trade and manufacture to make ISK for my PVP main. When the market in EVE is as small as it is, the important thing to do is to keep a diverse portfolio. I have my ISK in T2 BPO's, T2 modules, T1 modules, ISK and to some extent in minerals. The market fluctuation has not really changed my profits much.
If one desires nothing but that that the "the assets' value is - - guaranteed" One should invest in assets that do not vary in price, such as T1 ship BPO's. Those always sell for at lest the NPC sell price.
I'm advocating a diverse portfolio of items for every player, no matter how much ISK he has. If the items in your hangar are for use, then it's all the same how much they are worth, isn't it (since they are not for resale anyway)? For all other assets, diversify! :)
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Torm Ilmater
No Quarter.
Vae Victis.
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Posted - 2007.05.07 09:04:00 -
[56]
z0mg I don't have to bend over backwards to fit out another pvp ship anymore? Well that needs to be fixed!
Seriously, the cheaper goods have made it so I don't need to grind forever to get a little money together to buy & fit something that might only last a few minutes in pvp. Sorry but I'll take the current state of affairs and let the T2 BPO owners cry about how their BPO isn't a super ISK printer anymore.
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Krugerrand
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.05.07 09:16:00 -
[57]
Interesting thread...
Prices of items change in value all the time, not just in Eve, but RL as well. Luxury goods become more common place over time and their price drops to something more affordable. It's up to you to spot these trends, when an item is now starting to become of less value, and sell it while you can make a profit. You can buy them when they are cheaper and wait for them to raise in price again.
I saw machariels mentioned, I've seen these fluctuate in price as supply and demand changes weekly. At times they have been 800m, then 500m, then back to 800m again.
Invention is good in many ways, and T2 BPOs are not "worthless", they are worth less than before, but still sell for a high amount of ISK and have a guaranteed build supply, unlike invention. The biggest problem from invention is the best PvPers have lost their largest source of income and are having to adapt to find other sources.
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Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc.
INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.05.07 09:18:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Suada
Originally by: Shakuul
The real world has devices to control deflation because in the real world deflation is bad, since it discourages lending, which lowers production, and so on. In EVE, there is no lending, because you can't reliably collect on loans, so I don't see how "deflation" would be a problem in EVE.
Deflation is ALWAYS better than inflation in the real world. Deflation = more purchasing power. It doesn't hurt the economy or the consumer. Inflation is almost always bad because the value of your money drops, which makes you have to spend more (or borrow money) in order to afford things as the price climbs. The ONLY time inflation is healthy is when demand is larger than the supply on specific goods or services. The Fed constantly manipulating the value of the dollar is going to backfire 100 fold and everyone is going to suffer for it.
Incorrect. Mild inflation is better than deflation. Deflation (such as seen in Japan for example over the last decade) is really bad for consumption and leads to recession. Inflation is good in the sense that it makes it more attractive to consume since your money will be worth less in a years time. Central banks generally have an inflation target of around 1-2%, they will lower interest rates when inflation drops too low, and will raise rates only when inflation starts to rise over about 2% generally.
Hyperinflation is of course very bad as it will lead to distorting effects in terms of people/companies not being able to hold much cash and increasing uncertainty, but inflation at 1-2% is nothing more than a 'bit of oil to lubricate the economic engine'.
signature removed - please contact us to find out why (include the URL of your sig) - Jacques([email protected]) |
Keven
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Posted - 2007.05.07 09:25:00 -
[59]
So youre making only 1 bil instead of 2 bil a day now?
Im so sorry for your loss, cookie?
You can still make loads of money so what are you complainig about? About us non-uber-rich people being able to buy tII and actualy being able to risk it in our first steps of pvp?
stfu
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Malcanis
High4Life
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Posted - 2007.05.07 09:27:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Karasuma Akane
Originally by: Varia Net
and the deflation is making my assets worth a lot less than before.
The market is working exactly how it is supposed to. Or did you expect your 'stuff' to magically gain in value while it sat in your hangars?
You should have sold your precious assets while the prices for them were high (as many T2 producers did, expecting prices to drop precipitously with the advent of Invention), and perhaps bought other/new assets for a low price that you expected to rise in value.
Welcome to Economics 101 and Market PvP, the value of your assets is NOT guaranteed. Or did you also want your ships to magically reassemble themselves after they've been blasted to bits (also guaranteeing your 'asset').
Saying T2 BPO owners aren't guaranteed huge profits is COMMUNISM!
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