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Best T2 CNR Kit for Missions

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Crystalyne	Posted - 2007.05.08 00:07:00 - [1] Edited by: Crystalyne on 08/05/2007 00:05:23 OK .. I fly a CNR in lvl 4 missions. I know there has been a lot of discussion here regarding Rattlesnake vs. CNR. I'm not really interested in putting faction mods into the ship. But I have a feeling I'm just not optimized with my T2 fitting. Just curious what you guys think the best T2 fitting for a CNR (including rigs)is. Oh and I looked in the ships section .. nothing valuable there.
Plokk	Posted - 2007.05.08 05:42:00 - [2] If you fly Raven , RS , or CNR , and active tank....Arbys up top with Heavy Dimenishing NOS x2, in Mids try either Gist or Pith B-type Resistance Amps x2 (specific)2 Gist or Pith B-Type Hardeners ( Specific) and either a Pith or T2 X-Large Booster.Down low try this , 2 Beta Controls ( they are cheapest for largest gain )PDS II x3 , and for Rigs you want CCC I x3 :) It's all about cap regen ;) That way , you don't have to give up a mid for those Cap Boosters , and lug around those Cap Booster Charge 800's :) Peace !
Plokk	Posted - 2007.05.08 05:42:00 - [3] Oh .... sorry , and an Invul II in MId ;)
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2007.05.08 07:04:00 - [4] Assuming you will do missions solo (no alt) then torpedo CNR is a bit faster than cruise CNR but that is NOT pure T2 setup and needs atleast some faction gadgets to pull it off. Depending on your skills and 'need for speed' in some cases even officer stuff. That said pure T2 setups work out quite nice also for those with thinner wallets. Torpedo setups needs at least 1 target painter and start shining when you get 2 of them. When fitting out your CNR there is 2 schools of tought. First one runs their tank from capacitor recharge and second school uses capacitor injector to fuel their tank. Both approaces are quite viable altho running your tank off from capacitor recharge needs at least reasonably good energy skills and faction gadets make it really shine. Second approach is a bit more gentle against pilots with not stellar capacitor skills or too thin wallets to afford Gist shieldbooster. Deciding whitch type tank will you run kinda dictates also most reasonable rigs. When running from capacitor recharge then CCC rigs are only reasonable option. If cap injector is used then it's more up to personal preference. I myself prefer missile signature radius rigs (altho it hurts your CPU and makes it harder to fit). Cap injector fueled T2 CNR 7x Cruise missile II XL T2 booster, 4x T2 hardener, 1x Heavy cap injector(x800) 3x BCU II 1x DCU 1x to make it fit / whatever rigs: 2x missile signature 1x shield thermal res Now, depending on rigs you use you will either need or do not need CPU in that last free low slot. Missile rigs do hurt your CPU. If you do not fancy missile rigs then ones lowering your shield booster cap usage are most reasonable making you tank longer from your x800 charges. I leave typical cap reharge setup for someone else to post as I'm not that experienced on that section to offer anything more than typical cookiecutter setups from other threads.
Nice View Gallente	Posted - 2007.05.08 07:27:00 - [5] Pretty much a T2 basic setup that works great for lvl4's for me. High: 7x Arby Cruise missile 1x NOS or tractor or what ever Mid: 1x XL T2 booster 1x SBA II 4x T2 hardener Low: 2x BCU II 1x DCU II 2x PDU II rigs: 3x CCC
Sokratesz Paradox v2.0 1 Shot 1 Kill	Posted - 2007.05.08 07:37:00 - [6] Edited by: Sokratesz on 08/05/2007 07:34:13 Full T2 with sieges will need a co-proc to fit even with weapon upgrades lvl 5. 7x siege, 1x tractor beam 1x x-large booster, 1x SBA, 1x target painter, 3x rat specific hardeners 3x BCU, 1x PDU, 1x Co-proc All T2, plus T1 cap rigs. ISD raped my sig!
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2007.05.08 07:53:00 - [7] Tbh a standard Raven with a Gist XL Booster works better than a CNR with a T2 one, for more or less the same price. As a rule, FIRST upgrade the equipment, THEN upgrade the ship. I am sure your CNR cries itself into sleep every night for not being fitted with a Gist shield booster --------- There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Kestrel There is no 'e' in Caldari
Sokratesz Paradox v2.0 1 Shot 1 Kill	Posted - 2007.05.08 08:35:00 - [8] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Tbh a standard Raven with a Gist XL Booster works better than a CNR with a T2 one, for more or less the same price. As a rule, FIRST upgrade the equipment, THEN upgrade the ship. I am sure your CNR cries itself into sleep every night for not being fitted with a Gist shield booster Well, CNR by default has 16.7% more DPS and if you can tank them anyway - i dont see a problem. ISD raped my sig!
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2007.05.08 08:48:00 - [9] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Tbh a standard Raven with a Gist XL Booster works better than a CNR with a T2 one, for more or less the same price. As a rule, FIRST upgrade the equipment, THEN upgrade the ship. I am sure your CNR cries itself into sleep every night for not being fitted with a Gist shield booster I have to disagree there. CNR with T2 tank tanks as good as standard raven. What does count however is higer dps making your mission go faster. With faster missions you can earn more isk and can afford that gist booster sooner. So if you have that 800 mil at hand then CNR is better insvestment than Gist shieldbooster. Gist booster sure makes tanking easier but it is not the only option of doing lev 4 missions without needing warpouts. XL T2 works as good with reasonable skills or modified setup. Gist makes it just possible to make permaboosting XL shieldtank with 3x CCC rigs.
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2007.05.08 09:41:00 - [10] Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 08/05/2007 09:38:30 How do you tank L4s with a T2 XL booster without gimping your setup with a cap booster or more than 2 cap mods in the lows? Granted I use torps and not cruise so I need 2 painters (just one painter does not cut it) and can't afford to fit a cap booster, and I absolutely refuse to fit less than 3 BCUs . But Torp Raven > cruise CNR. And please show me a torp CNR that can tank L4s with just 4 meds and 2 lows not using gist booster? --------- There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Kestrel There is no 'e' in Caldari
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2007.05.08 10:27:00 - [11] Yep. It is not possible to torpedo CNR with 2 target painters with just only T2 tank. So that raises question what is better, is it CNR with T2 tank and no target painters (either cruise II or torpedoes without target painter) or regular raven with torpedoes 2x target painters and gist XL booster. With few 'cheaper' faction stuff it might be possible to do Tropedo CNR with just one target painter - I have not done the math but would it cut it for thinner wallet audience? I do not doubt that pimped out CNR with torpedoes is faster than pimped out CNR with cruise missiles, just question of order what to pimp first It would propaly deserve separate thread about 'best setup for lev 4 missions under 1 billion pricetag' or something like that.
Zakgram Atomic Heroes The OSS	Posted - 2007.05.08 11:52:00 - [12] Edited by: Zakgram on 08/05/2007 11:53:41 Edited by: Zakgram on 08/05/2007 11:51:31 Edited by: Zakgram on 08/05/2007 11:50:50 Edited by: Zakgram on 08/05/2007 11:50:00 Originally by: Leandro Salazar Granted I use torps and not cruise so I need 2 painters (just one painter does not cut it) Grr.. why isn't there a pre-format or table option. Ho hum - reply to view table in neater format. Signature Painters Cruise DPS Torp DPS Result 35 0 82 63 cruise 30% better 35 1 112 87 cruise 28% better 35 2 149 115 cruise 29% better 35 3 181 140 cruise 29% better overall cruise is 29% better against frigs regardless of number of painters Signature Painters Cruise DPS Torp DPS Result 130 0 303 235 cruise 29% better 130 1 417 323 cruise 29% better 130 2 525 428 cruise 23% better 130 3 525 519 cruise 1% better overall cruise is 23-29% better against cruisers than torps unless you're fitting 3 painters. Signature Painters Cruise DPS Torp DPS Result 300 0 525 542 torp 3% better 300 1 525 722 torp 37% better 300 2 525 722 torp 37% better no point going to 3 painters. Overall torps are always better and a single painter makes torps shine Signature Painters Cruise DPS Torp DPS Result 400 0 525 722 torp 37% better who needs painters :-) Torps win. Note: all assume reasonable skills, fitting, etc. Looking above it seems that a torp raven with a single painter is about as effective as a cruise raven without one against most lvl 4 type targets (cruiser fest). Most raven/cnr cruise runners don't use a painter. So why do you think a single painter on a torp won't cut it?
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2007.05.08 13:02:00 - [13] Interesting. Maybe I am wrong and one painter DOES cut it. Certainly seems so in theory, though sometimes in practice it is different. I think for me the main reason to require two painters was that two of them allow you to one-volley most cruisers too while ones does not, and one-volleying is very handy for high speed mission running. Plus with two painters you can split them, put one onto the BC you currently shoot at, and put the other onto the next one in line, which is very handy when they are so close that the torps might arrive at the second one before the painter cycle has finished on the first one. Not to mention drones. There are advantages to two painters, I am just not sure anymore how critical they are. I also wonder, do your numbers include the painter improving skill at lvl4? I cannot check that myself atm... Guess I will do some research in the next few days, interesting issue. Just like the question whether a torp raven with two painters beats a cruise CNR. --------- There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Kestrel There is no 'e' in Caldari
firepup82 RUSTY NAIL II	Posted - 2007.05.08 13:49:00 - [14] 7 x cruise 2's and one heavy diminishing power drain. 5 rat specific hardeners, or 4 with a sensor booster 2. and a gist x xl sb. 3 pdu 2, and 2 bcu 2. 2 ccc rigs and 1 semi conductor memory cell rig. Thats what I use and never had to warp out on any mission yet. Good luck
Zu'azon Caesar Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.05.08 13:59:00 - [15] 7 Cruise Launcher 2s 4 t2 hardners, 1 XL t2, Boost amp t2 3 bcu t2, 2 pdu t2 3 CCCs Get a faction tank. If you have enough for the ship, put on your big boy pants and get a tank for it. -------------------------------------------------- Desperation is a stinky cologne.....
Zakgram Atomic Heroes The OSS	Posted - 2007.05.08 14:40:00 - [16] Originally by: Leandro Salazar I think for me the main reason to require two painters was that two of them allow you to one-volley most cruisers too while ones does not, and one-volleying is very handy for high speed mission running. I've a cruise runner myself so don't get to 1 volley anything other than destroyers ;) Originally by: Leandro Salazar Plus with two painters you can split them, put one onto the BC you currently shoot at, and put the other onto the next one in line, which is very handy when they are so close that the torps might arrive at the second one before the painter cycle has finished on the first one. Not to mention drones. There are advantages to two painters, I am just not sure anymore how critical they are. I also wonder, do your numbers include the painter improving skill at lvl4? I cannot check that myself atm... I use the http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Preston85/beta23v5_kali.zip sheet. Regards Zak
Pfrundpaechter The-Four-HorseMen G.U.A.R.D.	Posted - 2007.05.08 15:22:00 - [17] i came back to missions after 6 months and checked prices for the gist b xl, saw it's around 800mil, so i had to come up with something different: M: X-Large C5L Booster, SBA II , Cap recharger II, 3 hardeners of choice II L: 2x BCSII 3x PDSII (cpu issues, perhaps you can fit 3bcs) rig: 3xccc should be 652 shield / 4sec. yeah, it's only a named booster. so i plugged in a set of low-grade crystals (w/o omega) for the gist feeling. 250 million well invested later it's boosting 825 units, and is running for a very very long time. never had to warp out of any mission and everything feels under control just like with a gist permatank
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2007.05.08 17:59:00 - [18] Interesting numbers Zakgram. It appears that one target painter will be more or less enough to kill BC size rats without problems and 2 painters will hurt cruisers enough with torpedoes. Ofcource in real missions there is balance between various size opponents but newer ones seem to have a bit heavier battleship/BC section. So in there torpedo setup even with one painter seems to be better than cruise missile one. Assuming one can afford to fit the tank into there. It is quite tight fit but with very good skills and pershaps few cheaper faction gadgets it might possible to squeeze it in. Worth a try I quess. I do like my cruise missiles with those signature rigs ofcource (they do not affect torps unfortunately), but if something else is more effective with reasonable pricetag then why not. Most of those missions why I fitted those rigs have been switched into reinforcing wave mode anyway and have now a lot less 'proper' sized targets for them.
Crystalyne	Posted - 2007.05.08 19:32:00 - [19] OK .. So I specifically waited to post my fitting until I had some activity. And the discussion has been very enlightening. Here is what I run right now H: 7x Arb Cruise, 1x Drone Link Augmentor M: 1x T2 XL SB, 1x T2 SBA, 3x T2 Hardeners, 1x Eutectic L: 1x T2 BCS, 4x T2 PDS Rigs: 1x CCC, 1x Bay Loader, 1x Core Defence Field Extender drones: 5 Hammerheads (T2s of these are just outrageous) I guess I need to run this through Quickfit and play with it a bit more. So you can see I'm a bit off from T2 optimized. The fitting works .. haven't had to warp out yet although I've been scared a few times. But have been thinking about going to Torps and replacing my Rigs. Any more comments always welcome.
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2007.05.08 19:55:00 - [20] I managed to squeeze in torpedo setup into CNR with one target painter and T2 tank + cap injector. Not as strong as cruise missile tank but it shall be enough most likely. 7x domination siege ('arbalest' has same fitting req.) T2 XL booster, 3x T2 hardener, 1x Heavy cap injector(x800), Phased weapon nav array (as good as t2) 3x BCU II 1x beta RCU 1x beta PDU Fits in very tight manner with AWU 4 and reasonable skills to save CPU everywhere where possible. In my case one of BCU's is also dread gurista version but all 3 can be T2 as long as 8th hi slot is empty. Can't use any launcher rigs ofcource in that setup. Using 2x CCC and 1x thermal shield res (just bcos it was fitted, 3x CCC might be better idea). Will see how it works out for missions. With those new missions with more bigger ships perhaps a bit better than cruise missile setup. Unless it's one of those with myriad of small ships but quess it's good idea to fit cruise II for those anyway.
Pularau	Posted - 2007.05.08 20:47:00 - [21] okay noob question incomming: BCU, RCU, PDU what the heck are those? its like chinese to me :P
Crystalyne	Posted - 2007.05.08 21:00:00 - [22] BCU = BCS = Ballistic Control Unit/system PDU = PDS - Power Distribution Unit/System RCU = Reactor Control Unit Dictionary
J'Mkarr Soban Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2007.05.08 21:02:00 - [23] This is a really interesting thread. I was always scared to ask for a definitive answer of torps v. cruise, because the most likely response in these forums is 'wtfbbqomg go reed it urself'. At least this thread has literate participants. I'm at the stage now of 400mil. I run the following: 6x T2 Cruise 1x T2 LSB (might switch to XL now my skills are trained up) 1x Named T1 SBA (not got the skills yet, working on it) 4x T2 Hardeners 3x BCU II 1x DCS II 1x PDS II 3x CCC Sometimes I switch out a hardener and the SBA for 2 Sensor Booster IIs, for sniping missions (it's great fun hitting from 190km!). I guess I'd like to know where to go from here. Once I've got T2 SBA, and can fit a Drone Augmentor, I'll be happy skills wise. I don't have any implant other than the basic +3s. Given my current bank balance, what's best for me to do to hit the Torp CNR + Tank? I can run my current tank fairly ok, I have to warp out a few times in some missions, although I can do GA no problem. Though I find the adrenaline of leaving it till the very last salvo of missiles hit before warping out a great hit ). Or is it even worth going for torp CNR? Would cruise be better? (I must admit I didn't follow the tables above, but I've just spent the past 3 weeks pouring over my own tables and results for my dissertation ) -J --------------------------------- "He who 'hah hahs' last, 'hah hahs' best." - Nelson Balanced != Nerfed
Dragon Lord Caldari research inc	Posted - 2007.05.08 23:31:00 - [24] Well your price asset is your ship so you should get the mods to protect your ship from anything a mission throughs at you before you decide to jump into a cnr, yes mission go quicker with a CNR but if you get popped thats 800m down the drane which is a fair amount even to the most hardcore mission runners. A raven with duel nos cruise and a faction tank can be completly safe in any lvl4 and once you have that faction tank, then get that CNR. But its a personel choice i guess i did it that way but i guess some like to do it the risky way.
Crystalyne	Posted - 2007.05.09 00:22:00 - [25] I fully realize that the faction tank is the way to go .. but I got my CNR from running missions as an offer. So while I certainly don't want to loose it in a mission .. I'm not sure I want to put yet another 800 mil into a tank for it either when a significantly less expensive but probably good enough T2 Tank will work just as well for the missions I run. So anyway... I worked up a QuickFit given my current Raven skills for a 7 Arb Siege launcher set up. In this case I swapped out my rigs to be all CCC and added a target painter. I needed to add a co-processor cuz the CPU load is just too much. Looks like I get almost a 80% boost in damage over my current cruise setup (hope I'm not calculating it wrong) and still retain the basics of my T2 Tank. Only thing I miss is the 19k+ shields I had before and some shield recharge .. but if I can take the ships out nearly twice as fast then all is good. But more importantly .. It looks like I'll need to train some of my skills up to even come close to fitting a complete T2 setup. =================================== And now a related question .. when using Quickfit to calculate DPS how do you match up ammo used with the NPC selected to get some reasonable numbers? Do you use like Kinetic against Guristas and EM against Sansha and just pick a typical variation in the ship class??
Aterna Talon's Grasp	Posted - 2007.05.09 02:42:00 - [26] In quickfit, search the NPC database for an officer of the faction you're shooting at. They generally have the best resists. Mizuro, Tuvan, etc. If you can't find one of them, try for one of the rare spawns. Dire Pithi, Shadow Serpentis, etc. Or you can simply go down the list and find whichever NPC has the best resists, and run your calculations against that. Do that for each size of ship, you'll get a conservative estimate of your dps. - - - WTB new sig, evemail me please.
Edsel Dominus Nihil Development	Posted - 2007.05.09 03:55:00 - [27] My skills are a bit lacking so the setup may seem a bit odd but had the isk for faction mods. May not be the ideal setup but it works for me. Rattlesnake 6 arbalest cruise 1 drone link 1 Pith x-type xl booster 1 Pith b-type amp 2 cap recharge 2Æs 2 t2 hardeners of choice 1 cap flux 2 3 named cap flux 1Æs 1 pds 2 1 named BCU 3 CCC 1Æs With full crystal set IÆm boosting at 1822 / 4 sec HavenÆt had to warp out of a mission yet and it perma boosts.
Sokratesz Paradox v2.0 1 Shot 1 Kill	Posted - 2007.05.09 09:10:00 - [28] Originally by: Edsel the worst rattlesnake setup ever Thats a disgrace to Faction Ships all over the universe Originally by: welsh wizard You might not be able to kill anything but you can sure as hell ignore it and go about your business
fugimi	Posted - 2007.05.09 12:00:00 - [29] im surprised so many ppl use PDU II in the lows. try using 3xbeta reactor cap flux (the one with the 29%), along with 3xccc it should sustain a gist xl sb + 4 hardeners forever (or a large T2 sb). and what even more strange is that some1 said he use a T2 cap flux ? have u lost ur marbles ? a T2 cap flux have 30% and best named have 29%, they have lower requirments, and they have the price of a noob frig.
Edsel Dominus Nihil Development	Posted - 2007.05.09 15:55:00 - [30] Originally by: Sokratesz Originally by: Edsel the worst rattlesnake setup ever Thats a disgrace to Faction Ships all over the universe Did I say it was the best? I think you missed my first line. Originally by: Edsel My skills are a bit lacking so the setup may seem a bit odd

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