EVE Search - Off Topic Discussions

Check My IP Information

All Channels

Intergalactic Summit

Off Topic Discussions

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 .. 16 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Valerie Valate Church of The Crimson Saviour Sani-Sabik 2136	Posted - 2017.05.03 21:36:20 - [1] - Quote Arrendis wrote: 'Off-Topic Discussions' thread. Just sayin'. So, there was this pseudo-Naupliusist tract that I came across the other day. Literally full of stuff like "Thou shalt not suffer the Minmatar to exist" and so on. How about them god damn walnuts ? Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3367	Posted - 2017.05.03 21:48:56 - [2] - Quote I'd just like to heartily encourage everyone to use this thread for all future responses to anything that derails things. I expect we'll see a lot of 'somethingsoemthing must be destroyed' in here if we do.
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 215	Posted - 2017.05.03 22:25:18 - [3] - Quote Apparently someone people taste of lemons
Aria Jenneth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 3683	Posted - 2017.05.03 22:37:55 - [4] - Quote Valerie Valate wrote: Arrendis wrote: 'Off-Topic Discussions' thread. Just sayin'. So, there was this pseudo-Naupliusist tract that I came across the other day. Literally full of stuff like "Thou shalt not suffer the Minmatar to exist" and so on. How about them god damn walnuts ? I'm actually working on maybe a little bit of a rundown on Achur occult practices. It seems like trying to extract ancient wisdom from those might keep Mr. Nauplius focused on stuff that doesn't involve ... you know. For a while.
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 215	Posted - 2017.05.03 22:40:43 - [5] - Quote Aria Jenneth wrote: Valerie Valate wrote: Arrendis wrote: 'Off-Topic Discussions' thread. Just sayin'. So, there was this pseudo-Naupliusist tract that I came across the other day. Literally full of stuff like "Thou shalt not suffer the Minmatar to exist" and so on. How about them god damn walnuts ? I'm actually working on maybe a little bit of a rundown on Achur occult practices. It seems like trying to extract ancient wisdom from those might keep Mr. Nauplius focused on stuff that doesn't involve ... you know. For a while. That seems a noble effort.
Valerie Valate Church of The Crimson Saviour Sani-Sabik 2137	Posted - 2017.05.03 22:46:32 - [6] - Quote Aria Jenneth wrote: Valerie Valate wrote: Arrendis wrote: 'Off-Topic Discussions' thread. Just sayin'. So, there was this pseudo-Naupliusist tract that I came across the other day. Literally full of stuff like "Thou shalt not suffer the Minmatar to exist" and so on. How about them god damn walnuts ? I'm actually working on maybe a little bit of a rundown on Achur occult practices. It seems like trying to extract ancient wisdom from those might keep Mr. Nauplius focused on stuff that doesn't involve ... you know. For a while. So there I am, giving this lecture about the Takmahl archaeology, and this Culter turns up, you know, an actual Covenant Corpus Apostle, and he tells me that Empress Synthia is the subject of some kind of worship on one of the other Sabik worlds, that for some reason, she is considered to be like, the Savant Saviour, who would lead the Faithful to Paradise. Never has my flabber been so gasted. Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Mebrithiel Ju'wien Anshar Incorporated Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group 123	Posted - 2017.05.03 22:50:40 - [7] - Quote Valerie Valate wrote: Arrendis wrote: 'Off-Topic Discussions' thread. Just sayin'. How about them god damn walnuts ? Thank you for not derailing my thread! So, who are you dating lately, hun? (Do dates have nuts?) But here is the blood still and all the perfumes of Aridia will not sweeten this little rose GÖÑ
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 215	Posted - 2017.05.03 22:55:46 - [8] - Quote You can't lick your own wlbow
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 215	Posted - 2017.05.03 22:56:47 - [9] - Quote Mebrithiel Ju'wien wrote: Valerie Valate wrote: Arrendis wrote: 'Off-Topic Discussions' thread. Just sayin'. How about them god damn walnuts ? Thank you for not derailing my thread! So, who are you dating lately, hun? (Do dates have nuts?) You seem to have a thing about dates. Do you have a fibre deficiency?
Deitra Vess Non-Hostile Target 1886	Posted - 2017.05.04 00:09:55 - [10] - Quote The caldari navy cadets dont shine their boots as well as gallante navy cadets.

Nauplius Hoi Andrapodistai 800	Posted - 2017.05.04 00:52:01 - [11] - Quote Aria Jenneth wrote: I'm actually working on maybe a little bit of a rundown on Achur occult practices. It seems like trying to extract ancient wisdom from those might keep Mr. Nauplius focused on stuff that doesn't involve ... you know. For a while. Please, please, please do this, madam.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3370	Posted - 2017.05.04 00:54:50 - [12] - Quote Napkins, haven't you been permanently prohibited from talking to all women on the basis of being terminally creepy?
Diana Kim State Protectorate Caldari State 3157	Posted - 2017.05.04 05:10:14 - [13] - Quote Arrendis is bad. Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us. In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Ibrahim Tash-Murkon Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 1037	Posted - 2017.05.04 06:18:23 - [14] - Quote Just because she's bad doesn't mean she's not good. "I give you the destiny of Faith, and you will bring its message to every planet of every star in the heavens: Go forth, conquer in my Name, and reclaim that which I have given." - Book of Reclaiming 22:13
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 216	Posted - 2017.05.04 07:27:04 - [15] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Napkins, haven't you been permanently prohibited from talking to all women on the basis of being terminally creepy? He brought me a drink the other day when I asked it of him. True he tactlessly referenced my anatomy but he has some small potential.
Lasairiona Raske Raske Holdings 352	Posted - 2017.05.04 10:47:42 - [16] - Quote Halcyon Ember wrote: Arrendis wrote: Napkins, haven't you been permanently prohibited from talking to all women on the basis of being terminally creepy? He brought me a drink the other day when I asked it of him. True he tactlessly referenced my anatomy but he has some small potential. Not if he keeps ditching his dates because of a little harmless fun. Are you a devil or an angel Sent here from heaven or from hell? Sweet temptress, I'm wrapped in your tangles Can't find my way out of your spell
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 216	Posted - 2017.05.04 11:34:58 - [17] - Quote Lasairiona Raske wrote: Halcyon Ember wrote: Arrendis wrote: Napkins, haven't you been permanently prohibited from talking to all women on the basis of being terminally creepy? He brought me a drink the other day when I asked it of him. True he tactlessly referenced my anatomy but he has some small potential. Not if he keeps ditching his dates because of a little harmless fun. Ditching you is obviously a foolish decision.
Nauplius Hoi Andrapodistai 800	Posted - 2017.05.04 12:07:30 - [18] - Quote The fact that I ditched Ms. Raske without a word during her own party and weeks earlier had ditched one of the Shelby sisters before the party even began demonstrates that I am not as horny and desperate as some people would have you believe, even concerning some of the most smoking hot ladies in the cluster. There are certain lines of dignity and decorum that ought not to be crossed, and I have demonstrated my ability to walk away when the sin and depravity has reached unacceptable levels.
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 216	Posted - 2017.05.04 12:11:44 - [19] - Quote Nauplius wrote: The fact that I ditched Ms. Raske without a word during her own party and weeks earlier had ditched one of the Shelby sisters before the party even began demonstrates that I am not as horny and desperate as some people would have you believe, even concerning some of the most smoking hot ladies in the cluster. There are certain lines of dignity and decorum that ought not to be crossed, and I have demonstrated my ability to walk away when the sin and depravity has reached unacceptable levels. Or that you're simply so repressed that you must urgently seek privacy without delay at even the hint of something that might tantalise you.
Mizhir TURN LEFT HYDRA RELOADED 75114	Posted - 2017.05.04 12:21:03 - [20] - Quote Nauplius wrote: The fact that I ditched Ms. Raske without a word during her own party and weeks earlier had ditched one of the Shelby sisters before the party even began demonstrates that I am not as horny and desperate as some people would have you believe, even concerning some of the most smoking hot ladies in the cluster. There are certain lines of dignity and decorum that ought not to be crossed, and I have demonstrated my ability to walk away when the sin and depravity has reached unacceptable levels. Why anyone would ever consider dating you is beyond my understanding. Death rides a fast C4mel

Myxx Black Eclipse Corp 786	Posted - 2017.05.04 14:52:23 - [21] - Quote Deitra Vess wrote: The caldari navy cadets dont shine their boots as well as gallante navy cadets. As former Federal Navy, I am proudly confirming this.
Valerie Valate Church of The Crimson Saviour Sani-Sabik 2138	Posted - 2017.05.04 16:54:11 - [22] - Quote Mebrithiel Ju'wien wrote: So, who are you dating lately, hun? Well, I'm not sure if you can call it dating, more like, ummm, hmmm, how to put this... I have an occasional thing, with someone, but well, you know, a couple little issues keep getting in the way, you know, typical dating stuff. Should we go to this restaurant, or that one ? Does this outfit make my anatomy look weird ? Have you decided to renounce your heretical ways and embrace the True Orthodoxy ? I can't make this weekend, I already had plans. Sorry for not turning up, I had to eradicate some heresy, etc. etc. You know. Typical 2nd century YC dating complications. Mizhir wrote: Why anyone would ever consider dating you is beyond my understanding. See, Nauplius has what the Scriptures refer to as "bad boy appeal". He is like, literally the wild-haired zealot with peculiar Scripture interpretations, that mothers are warned about in Scripture, where it is Written about how a Righteous Daughter should shun the attentions of wild-haired zealots, and instead go after more conventionally attractive young men and so on. You know, rebelling against parental authority and all that malarkey. Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3373	Posted - 2017.05.04 19:11:28 - [23] - Quote Halcyon Ember wrote: Or that you're simply so repressed that you must urgently seek privacy without delay at even the hint of something that might tantalise you. Or that he chickens out easily.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3373	Posted - 2017.05.04 19:45:37 - [24] - Quote Aria Jenneth wrote: Arrendis wrote: There's no difference, Aria. Sucking the life out of people is sucking the life out of people, whether you're literally bathing in their blood or building your family fortune off of generations of their toil. That's from one very particular point of view, Arrendis. I'm pretty sure you know better than to think it's the only one that's meaningful. I'd be really disappointed to be mistaken about that. Either way, I know you too well to argue you should change your position on this. For one thing, you're clever enough to be able to see perspectives you're not speaking from, and I don't really have the energy for a battle you could probably fight with yourself. For another, you'd fight me on every point whether you really believed it or not. You already understand the difference. Or, if, strangely, you don't, Ali can probably explain it in ways you'd be reluctant to fight her over. She had me attend her meeting with Ms. Leshrac, with a sidearm. It wasn't to protect either of them, except in the most metaphorical or spiritual sense. I understand the difference others see in it. Just as I completely understand that there are other viewpoints and opinions on the matter. They're wrong. They are as wrong as the people who like to claim that we're not responsible for bringing the Draifters down on our own heads. I still fully support blowing them all to hel because it's us or them, but make no mistake: we did that to ourselves, now we've got to wipe out the nornets' nest we kicked over. So yes, there's plenty of different viewpoints about this. Mine is: a group of maniacs from one island wrote a book to justify wanton slavery and bloodshed in order to advance and expand their own power. Their descendents continued to use that book that conveniently said they were uniquely authorized to murder and enslave people... to murder and enslave people until they controlled their entire planet. They obliterated by force and cultural 'violation' every other nation and way of life on that world. Then they spread their cancer to the stars. And they continued to tell everyone else they had two choices: either be killed or enslaved by force, and have their own unique cultures brutally sodomized into extinction, or agree in the total and perfect divine rightness of a book that says the Amarr get to kill and enslave anyone in the name of culturally sodomizing them until they give in and agree with the book. Do it at gunpoint, or we'll shoot you and torture your kids until they do it. And none of the other opinions, none of the other viewpoints, can alter those simple truths. That's what happened. That's what's continuing to be done to every still-enslaved lineage in the Empire. Anyone who says otherwise is either wrong... or a liar. That's really all there is to it, Aria.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3375	Posted - 2017.05.04 20:04:33 - [25] - Quote Diana, I have a question for you: Diana Kim wrote: Some people will consider using slaves unethical. Some people will consider using slaves ethical. Some would even consider vitoc-ed slaves as ethical. It is just what our culture teaches us and there is NO single answer of whether a certain type of crewmember is ethical or not - everyone will have different opinion. But what we can compare, it is efficiency of crewmbembers. And efficiency of slaves on a military vessel, especially drugged ones, is lacking. Considering your stance on sexual activity outside of procreation, isn't this a double-standard? Slavery is ok for the Amarr because it's their culture, but enjoying sex is bad, deviant, and evil no matter who you are?
Claudia Osyn Non-Hostile Target 2381	Posted - 2017.05.04 20:07:06 - [26] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Diana, I have a question for you: Diana Kim wrote: Some people will consider using slaves unethical. Some people will consider using slaves ethical. Some would even consider vitoc-ed slaves as ethical. It is just what our culture teaches us and there is NO single answer of whether a certain type of crewmember is ethical or not - everyone will have different opinion. But what we can compare, it is efficiency of crewmbembers. And efficiency of slaves on a military vessel, especially drugged ones, is lacking. Considering your stance on sexual activity outside of procreation, isn't this a double-standard? Slavery is ok for the Amarr because it's their culture, but enjoying sex is bad, deviant, and evil no matter who you are? Open, Oh can of worm! A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 225	Posted - 2017.05.04 20:24:00 - [27] - Quote Claudia Osyn wrote: Arrendis wrote: Diana, I have a question for you: Diana Kim wrote: Some people will consider using slaves unethical. Some people will consider using slaves ethical. Some would even consider vitoc-ed slaves as ethical. It is just what our culture teaches us and there is NO single answer of whether a certain type of crewmember is ethical or not - everyone will have different opinion. But what we can compare, it is efficiency of crewmbembers. And efficiency of slaves on a military vessel, especially drugged ones, is lacking. Considering your stance on sexual activity outside of procreation, isn't this a double-standard? Slavery is ok for the Amarr because it's their culture, but enjoying sex is bad, deviant, and evil no matter who you are? Open, Oh can of worm! Don't worry, she'll ignore any hypocrisy in her stance and declare Arrendis vile. All will be well.
Aria Jenneth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 3694	Posted - 2017.05.04 20:52:26 - [28] - Quote Arrendis wrote: I understand the difference others see in it. Just as I completely understand that there are other viewpoints and opinions on the matter. They're wrong. They are as wrong as the people who like to claim that we're not responsible for bringing the Draifters down on our own heads. I still fully support blowing them all to hel because it's us or them, but make no mistake: we did that to ourselves, now we've got to wipe out the nornets' nest we kicked over. So yes, there's plenty of different viewpoints about this. Mine is: a group of maniacs from one island wrote a book to justify wanton slavery and bloodshed in order to advance and expand their own power. Their descendents continued to use that book that conveniently said they were uniquely authorized to murder and enslave people... to murder and enslave people until they controlled their entire planet. They obliterated by force and cultural 'violation' every other nation and way of life on that world. Then they spread their cancer to the stars. And they continued to tell everyone else they had two choices: either be killed or enslaved by force, and have their own unique cultures brutally sodomized into extinction, or agree in the total and perfect divine rightness of a book that says the Amarr get to kill and enslave anyone in the name of culturally sodomizing them until they give in and agree with the book. Do it at gunpoint, or we'll shoot you and torture your kids until they do it. And none of the other opinions, none of the other viewpoints, can alter those simple truths. That's what happened. That's what's continuing to be done to every still-enslaved lineage in the Empire. Anyone who says otherwise is either wrong... or a liar. That's really all there is to it, Aria. Only, Arrendis, whether what the Amarr did and/or do is awful wasn't the question. The question was whether there's no meaningful difference between them and the Sani Sabik, whose collective reaction to such a sentiment, should they get the chance, would kind of boil down to, "Challenge accepted!" The fact that Sani Sabik seems to be basically the Amarrian error state is at the heart of me really not wanting to see the Empire fall even if that were a possible thing. The likely fallout from that would be.... It seems to me that one of the most dangerous sentiments in this cluster is, "It can't be worse." It's really, really rare for that thought to be true.
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 225	Posted - 2017.05.04 21:28:28 - [29] - Quote Aria Jenneth wrote: It seems to me that one of the most dangerous sentiments in this cluster is, "It can't be worse." It's really, really rare for that thought to be true. Many people don't realise how far they have yet to fall
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3375	Posted - 2017.05.04 21:28:54 - [30] - Quote Aria Jenneth wrote: Only, Arrendis, whether what the Amarr did and/or do is awful wasn't the question. The question was whether there's no meaningful difference between them and the Sani Sabik, whose collective reaction to such a sentiment, should they get the chance, would kind of boil down to, "Challenge accepted!" The fact that Sani Sabik seems to be basically the Amarrian error state is at the heart of me really not wanting to see the Empire fall even if that were a possible thing. The likely fallout from that would be.... It seems to me that one of the most dangerous sentiments in this cluster is, "It can't be worse." It's really, really rare for that thought to be true. I'll never claim it couldn't be worse. Only that the Sani are different from the rest of the Amarr only in the particular flavor of self-indulgent religious justification for their obscenities. Just because the mainstream Amarr collectively say 'that's not what we want to do' doesn't mean that they wouldn't, if it was. Or that they wouldn't justify it with 'God said so'.

Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 225	Posted - 2017.05.04 21:43:17 - [31] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Aria Jenneth wrote: Only, Arrendis, whether what the Amarr did and/or do is awful wasn't the question. The question was whether there's no meaningful difference between them and the Sani Sabik, whose collective reaction to such a sentiment, should they get the chance, would kind of boil down to, "Challenge accepted!" The fact that Sani Sabik seems to be basically the Amarrian error state is at the heart of me really not wanting to see the Empire fall even if that were a possible thing. The likely fallout from that would be.... It seems to me that one of the most dangerous sentiments in this cluster is, "It can't be worse." It's really, really rare for that thought to be true. I'll never claim it couldn't be worse. Only that the Sani are different from the rest of the Amarr only in the particular flavor of self-indulgent religious justification for their obscenities. Just because the mainstream Amarr collectively say 'that's not what we want to do' doesn't mean that they wouldn't, if it was. Or that they wouldn't justify it with 'God said so'. I don't feel the desire or ability to indulge themselves given justification is unique to my "people".
Diana Kim State Protectorate Caldari State 3159	Posted - 2017.05.04 21:45:10 - [32] - Quote Also, Arrendis is bad. Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us. In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3375	Posted - 2017.05.04 21:50:26 - [33] - Quote Halcyon Ember wrote: I don't feel the desire or ability to indulge themselves given justification is unique to my "people". And yet, the vast majority of the cluster has managed to avoid openly endorsing enslaving other peoples for generations with the express purpose of destroying their cultures. Funny, that.
Aria Jenneth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 3696	Posted - 2017.05.04 21:55:06 - [34] - Quote Arrendis wrote: I'll never claim it couldn't be worse. Only that the Sani are different from the rest of the Amarr only in the particular flavor of self-indulgent religious justification for their obscenities. Just because the mainstream Amarr collectively say 'that's not what we want to do' doesn't mean that they wouldn't, if it was. Or that they wouldn't justify it with 'God said so'. If you're claiming they're only different in their "particular flavor," you're implicitly saying neither is worse than the other; they're just different flavors of an otherwise indistinguishable invasion. That's really just a quibble, though, I guess. The sort of moral equivalency you're aiming for is mostly shrug-worthy for me. Being dismissed as barbaric and wrong by someone who doesn't share your context is something most people from the State can relate to.
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 225	Posted - 2017.05.04 21:55:12 - [35] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Halcyon Ember wrote: I don't feel the desire or ability to indulge themselves given justification is unique to my "people". And yet, the vast majority of the cluster has managed to avoid openly endorsing enslaving other peoples for generations with the express purpose of destroying their cultures. Funny, that. It's the nature of the justification, rather than the people. Unless you feel the desire to enslave is endemic to the people and being and being "Amarrian" somehow makes us so very different to everyone else.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3375	Posted - 2017.05.04 22:02:59 - [36] - Quote Aria Jenneth wrote: If you're claiming they're only different in their "particular flavor," you're implicitly saying neither is worse than the other; they're just different flavors of an otherwise indistinguishable invasion. Neither is. They're both the sort of thing that should be met with a bullet to the head from anyone who doesn't endorse them.
Kaatana Deikano Alexylva Paradox 16	Posted - 2017.05.04 22:04:10 - [37] - Quote Wow this off-topic thread actually kinda got derailed. That's impressive. Deitra Vess wrote: The caldari navy cadets dont shine their boots as well as gallante navy cadets. Lies. There are no boots shinier than Caldari boots.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3375	Posted - 2017.05.04 22:08:11 - [38] - Quote Halcyon Ember wrote: It's the nature of the justification, rather than the people. Unless you feel the desire to enslave is endemic to the people and being and being "Amarrian" somehow makes us so very different to everyone else. I think the Amarr hold that being Amarr makes you different from everyone else, and fully justified in commiting your atrocities because your 'Book of Why We're Better' says so. And until the atrocity ends, it should be opposed. If I thought we'd accomplish more than just annihilating ourselves and expanding the proportion of Matari in chains from 'some' to 'all', I'd be right there with Miz on burning the Empire down to ash.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3375	Posted - 2017.05.04 22:09:18 - [39] - Quote Kaatana Deikano wrote: Wow this off-topic thread actually kinda got derailed. That's impressive. No, it didn't. It's currently keeping an off-topic discussion from happening in another thread, by bringing it here.
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 226	Posted - 2017.05.04 22:13:45 - [40] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Halcyon Ember wrote: It's the nature of the justification, rather than the people. Unless you feel the desire to enslave is endemic to the people and being and being "Amarrian" somehow makes us so very different to everyone else. I think the Amarr hold that being Amarr makes you different from everyone else, and fully justified in commiting your atrocities because your 'Book of Why We're Better' says so. And until the atrocity ends, it should be opposed. If I thought we'd accomplish more than just annihilating ourselves and expanding the proportion of Matari in chains from 'some' to 'all', I'd be right there with Miz on burning the Empire down to ash. That's a product of the belief, rather than the people. Thus the belief needs to change. Unless you're saying I should be purged as a slaver waiting to happen?

Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3385	Posted - 2017.05.04 23:04:23 - [41] - Quote Halcyon Ember wrote: That's a product of the belief, rather than the people. Thus the belief needs to change. Unless you're saying I should be purged as a slaver waiting to happen? That's quite an inference you're taking there. To be blunt: Do you support slavery? If so, your clone contracts should be cancelled and you should be shot. Do you oppose slavery? If so, great. If you're still in the Empire, what are you doing to end it? If nothing, then you're actions say you're indifferent. Are you indifferent to it? Congratulations, you're giving slavery your tacit support! Let's get you that bullet.
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 226	Posted - 2017.05.04 23:15:05 - [42] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Halcyon Ember wrote: That's a product of the belief, rather than the people. Thus the belief needs to change. Unless you're saying I should be purged as a slaver waiting to happen? That's quite an inference you're taking there. To be blunt: Do you support slavery? If so, your clone contracts should be cancelled and you should be shot. Do you oppose slavery? If so, great. If you're still in the Empire, what are you doing to end it? If nothing, then you're actions say you're indifferent. Are you indifferent to it? Congratulations, you're giving slavery your tacit support! Let's get you that bullet. If you're intending to shoot everyone who is indifferent to slavery, you're going to have to broaden your focus from the Amarrians. I'm not indifferent, I'm also not going to fight. A change of attitude is needed. That I will argue for, but a change of attitude is difficult when people whose cause you might support are unwilling to look past the fact of your birth and are willing to blame upon you things you have had no hand in. I am not my people.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3385	Posted - 2017.05.04 23:23:07 - [43] - Quote Halcyon Ember wrote: If you're intending to shoot everyone who is indifferent to slavery, you're going to have to broaden your focus from the Amarrians. Angels and other non-governmental slavers get shot all the damned time. Everyone pretty much agress on shooting them, too. Well, except for them. But that's the situation with the Amarr, too, isn't it? Quote: I'm not indifferent, I'm also not going to fight. A change of attitude is needed. That I will argue for, but a change of attitude is difficult when people whose cause you might support are unwilling to look past the fact of your birth and are willing to blame upon you things you have had no hand in Are you doing anything about it? Note that I'm not saying you need to be going around shooting people to be doing something about it. Are you actively working to change public opinion? Are you denouncing corporations and individuals profiting from human bondage? Are you refusing to spend ISK buying ships and materiel in Amarr while the Empire supports slavery? Or are you just shaking your head in disapproval while you continue to buy products made with slave labor? Doing business in stations owned by corporations that hold slavesGÇölike say, the Amarr VII Emperor Family stationGÇöand so letting your taxes and broken fees support slavery? If you live within the Empire, either you're doing something about it, or you're supporting it. If you don't want it to be up to people willing to shoot you in the head... fix it yourselves. The longer you take, the more bullets we buy.
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 226	Posted - 2017.05.04 23:32:37 - [44] - Quote I live in Gallente space. Most of my trading occurs in federation stations. Or stations run by SoE. In my first years after leaving the empire I undertook a significant body of work for a number of matari corporations. As always when a capsuleers engages in such activities, there were casualties. I'm sure you're aware of what casualties they might be. Now I'd rather set the example that not all Amarrians are as so many wish to view them. I'm not a fighter nor an activist. I will offer support to those who request it, but not to those who would snarl and snap as if the identity of a persons father taints them indelibly.
Diana Kim State Protectorate Caldari State 3160	Posted - 2017.05.04 23:40:18 - [45] - Quote Oh wow, another offtopic post on how Arrendis is bad. Taking from here. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6929372#post6929372 Arrendis wrote: Actually, Makoto, since she's been paying them, they've attacked the State, and money is fungible, wouldn't that mean she's been materially supporting terrorist activities against the State? In fact, since she's been making money off of their activitesGÇöspecifically, their activities as her crewGÇödoesn't that mean that her ships have effectively been a terrorist front? That opens her up to all sorts of conspiracy and racketeering charges if she doesn't inform the State of the locations of those Dragonaur she knows about. I mean, speaking as someone who was a corporate officer in Caldari space for a time, and had to deal with potential criminal liability issues, and all. - Fungibility basically means that once money enters a common pool, one credit is indistinguishable from another. So if you need 40 ISK for ammo and 60 ISK for fuel, and I give you 50 ISK and Ali gives you 50 ISK, when you hit Jita a week later and buy everything, neither one of us can claim we were only giving you money for gas, because it's impossible to tell, ultimately, whose money went to buy the missiles. Now think about it, how someone with working synapses in their brain could imagine that paying to a hired worker is funding someone's activity? I am not even speaking about criminality or a terrorism at all, but simple concept. When you pay for a worker, you pay for what they do in your service or according to contract you hired them for. When you are funding personnel you support them with money for them to do their own activities, that you might get profits from. One probably should fall down from 5th floor and hit concrete with head to think that paying hired workforce to work for the organization is the same as funding activity against the named organization. We could laugh at Arrendis, of course, but... maybe we could find some specialist to help her? Is it possible at all? Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us. In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3393	Posted - 2017.05.05 03:38:17 - [46] - Quote Halcyon Ember wrote: I live in Gallente space. Most of my trading occurs in federation stations. Or stations run by SoE. In my first years after leaving the empire I undertook a significant body of work for a number of matari corporations. As always when a capsuleers engages in such activities, there were casualties. I'm sure you're aware of what casualties they might be. Now I'd rather set the example that not all Amarrians are as so many wish to view them. I'm not a fighter nor an activist. I will offer support to those who request it, but not to those who would snarl and snap as if the identity of a persons father taints them indelibly. Well, you're the only one who's made that assertion, so feel free to keep complaining about it. If you're not contributing to the Empire anymore, then there you go: you're not providing them with tacit approval of slavery. No bullet to the head on that score.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3393	Posted - 2017.05.05 03:42:10 - [47] - Quote Diana Kim wrote: Now think about it, how someone with working synapses in their brain could imagine that paying to a hired worker is funding someone's activity? I am not even speaking about criminality or a terrorism at all, but simple concept. When you pay for a worker, you pay for what they do in your service or according to contract you hired them for. When you are funding personnel you support them with money for them to do their own activities, that you might get profits from. Yup. You're giving them money. You're funding them. Glad to see you've clued into that little bit. So, if they take that money and use it in the furtherance of terrorist goals, and you've made a consistent policy of hiring them to be the dominant portion of your crew, then you're knowingly giving money to terrorists. And that makes you legally culpable. Congratulations. Keep trying to weasel out of what you've repeatedly admitted to: crimes against the State.
Elmund Egivand Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 2345	Posted - 2017.05.05 03:47:30 - [48] - Quote Diana Kim wrote: Oh wow, another offtopic post on how Arrendis is bad. Taking from here. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6929372#post6929372 Arrendis wrote: Actually, Makoto, since she's been paying them, they've attacked the State, and money is fungible, wouldn't that mean she's been materially supporting terrorist activities against the State? In fact, since she's been making money off of their activitesGÇöspecifically, their activities as her crewGÇödoesn't that mean that her ships have effectively been a terrorist front? That opens her up to all sorts of conspiracy and racketeering charges if she doesn't inform the State of the locations of those Dragonaur she knows about. I mean, speaking as someone who was a corporate officer in Caldari space for a time, and had to deal with potential criminal liability issues, and all. - Fungibility basically means that once money enters a common pool, one credit is indistinguishable from another. So if you need 40 ISK for ammo and 60 ISK for fuel, and I give you 50 ISK and Ali gives you 50 ISK, when you hit Jita a week later and buy everything, neither one of us can claim we were only giving you money for gas, because it's impossible to tell, ultimately, whose money went to buy the missiles. Now think about it, how someone with working synapses in their brain could imagine that paying to a hired worker is funding someone's activity? I am not even speaking about criminality or a terrorism at all, but simple concept. When you pay for a worker, you pay for what they do in your service or according to contract you hired them for. When you are funding personnel you support them with money for them to do their own activities, that you might get profits from. One probably should fall down from 5th floor and hit concrete with head to think that paying hired workforce to work for the organization is the same as funding activity against the named organization. We could laugh at Arrendis, of course, but... maybe we could find some specialist to help her? Is it possible at all? Kim, beyond taking care of material needs and living expenses, what do you think money can be used for? Did you expect your workers to just hoard their money for no good reason? A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Diana Kim State Protectorate Caldari State 3163	Posted - 2017.05.05 04:37:58 - [49] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Diana Kim wrote: Now think about it, how someone with working synapses in their brain could imagine that paying to a hired worker is funding someone's activity? I am not even speaking about criminality or a terrorism at all, but simple concept. When you pay for a worker, you pay for what they do in your service or according to contract you hired them for. When you are funding personnel you support them with money for them to do their own activities, that you might get profits from. Yup. You're giving them money. You're funding them. Glad to see you've clued into that little bit. So, if they take that money and use it in the furtherance of terrorist goals, and you've made a consistent policy of hiring them to be the dominant portion of your crew, then you're knowingly giving money to terrorists. And that makes you legally culpable. Congratulations. Keep trying to weasel out of what you've repeatedly admitted to: crimes against the State. Excuse me, but what moron would ever consider paying to hired workers to be a crime against the State, when these workers work for the State without violating any law? Enough of this clownery. You need help, Arrendis. Ask your clone technicians to fix your synapses before your consciousness disintegrates completely. Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us. In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Makoto Priano Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Arataka Research Consortium 9711	Posted - 2017.05.05 04:45:11 - [50] - Quote They are Templis Dragonaur, members of a terrorist organization. By being members of a terrorist organization, they are criminals. Ergo. Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?

Diana Kim State Protectorate Caldari State 3163	Posted - 2017.05.05 05:16:57 - [51] - Quote Makoto Priano wrote: They are Templis Dragonaur, members of a terrorist organization. By being members of a terrorist organization, they are criminals. Ergo. Makoto it seems just loves to accuse people by association. Luckily, that's not how any civilized law system works, and people who thought like that were all left far in medieval times of Caldari civilization. Though the equating a terrorist to criminal? Well, I guess we put then a criminal charge against Makoto for idiotism. That's almost identical. Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us. In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Makoto Priano Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Arataka Research Consortium 9711	Posted - 2017.05.05 06:45:57 - [52] - Quote Riiiight. Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Luna Hanaya Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 258	Posted - 2017.05.05 07:05:57 - [53] - Quote Diana Kim wrote: Makoto Priano wrote: They are Templis Dragonaur, members of a terrorist organization. By being members of a terrorist organization, they are criminals. Ergo. Makoto it seems just loves to accuse people by association. Luckily, that's not how any civilized law system works, and people who thought like that were all left far in medieval times of Caldari civilization. Though the equating a terrorist to criminal? Well, I guess we put then a criminal charge against Makoto for idiotism. That's almost identical. There are some Holders who whip some of remaining slaves if one of them runs away. They are bad, very very bad people. (( If you are a roleplayer, please join official CCP channels ingame for roleplayers and support roleplaying community: Intergalactic Summit - IC router Out of Character - channel for discussion of roleplay, live events and lore ))
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 227	Posted - 2017.05.05 07:24:40 - [54] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Halcyon Ember wrote: I live in Gallente space. Most of my trading occurs in federation stations. Or stations run by SoE. In my first years after leaving the empire I undertook a significant body of work for a number of matari corporations. As always when a capsuleers engages in such activities, there were casualties. I'm sure you're aware of what casualties they might be. Now I'd rather set the example that not all Amarrians are as so many wish to view them. I'm not a fighter nor an activist. I will offer support to those who request it, but not to those who would snarl and snap as if the identity of a persons father taints them indelibly. Well, you're the only one who's made that assertion, so feel free to keep complaining about it. If you're not contributing to the Empire anymore, then there you go: you're not providing them with tacit approval of slavery. No bullet to the head on that score. You condemn a great many people for a decision they're not even aware they've made. If you live your life in a cave, what can you know if the colour of the sky? If someone arrives and tells you to leave the cave, do you embrace them as saviour? Or fight them for fear of the unknown? What if someone tells you that you must die for living in a cave, when the cave is all you've ever known?
Luna Hanaya Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 258	Posted - 2017.05.05 10:59:43 - [55] - Quote Quote: So the Lord sent forth the Chosen, to bring forth the light of faith And those who embrace his love Shall be saved by his grace For we are his shepherds in the darkness His Angels of Mercy. But those who turn away from his light, And reject his true word Shall be struck down by his wrath For we are his retribution incarnate His Angels of Vengeance - The Scriptures, Book of Reclaiming 4:45 (( If you are a roleplayer, please join official CCP channels ingame for roleplayers and support roleplaying community: Intergalactic Summit - IC router Out of Character - channel for discussion of roleplay, live events and lore ))
Elsebeth Rhiannon Icecream Audit Office Electus Matari 824	Posted - 2017.05.05 11:02:15 - [56] - Quote Quote: - The Scriptures, Book of Reclaiming 4:45 Come darkness I am a candle in the hand of Fate Come war I am a weapon in the hand of Fate Come death I am a child holding the hand of Fate - Warrior's mantra, trad (Seb.)
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3395	Posted - 2017.05.05 12:56:55 - [57] - Quote Halcyon Ember wrote: You condemn a great many people for a decision they're not even aware they've made. If you live your life in a cave, what can you know of the colour of the sky? If someone arrives and tells you to leave the cave, do you embrace them as saviour? Or fight them for fear of the unknown? What if someone tells you that you must die for living in a cave, when the cave is all you've ever known? And now you're conflating slavery with something that doesn't affect anyone else. Tell me, do you really believe that there are people in the Amarr Empire who've never heard of the Minmatar Republic? Who've no idea that Matari are kept as slaves? That there was a slave rebellion, or that Empress Jamyl I became Empress after fending off a fleet of Matari vessels intent on liberating slaves? Do you think anyone who lived through the wall-to-wall Jamyl-for-Messiah hype after she died doesn't know it? We are all responsible for the choices we make, even when our choice is to not make a choice. To attempt to excuse people from their responsibility as human beings to own their own decisions is to infantilize them, to render them nothing more than brain-damaged children who can't possibly be expected to make their own decisions. Who exactly is it insulting 'your people' now? The person treating them like adults and demanding they act like it? Or the person who insists they can't be expected to know what they're doing?
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 227	Posted - 2017.05.05 13:11:00 - [58] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Halcyon Ember wrote: You condemn a great many people for a decision they're not even aware they've made. If you live your life in a cave, what can you know of the colour of the sky? If someone arrives and tells you to leave the cave, do you embrace them as saviour? Or fight them for fear of the unknown? What if someone tells you that you must die for living in a cave, when the cave is all you've ever known? And now you're conflating slavery with something that doesn't affect anyone else. Tell me, do you really believe that there are people in the Amarr Empire who've never heard of the Minmatar Republic? Who've no idea that Matari are kept as slaves? That there was a slave rebellion, or that Empress Jamyl I became Empress after fending off a fleet of Matari vessels intent on liberating slaves? Do you think anyone who lived through the wall-to-wall Jamyl-for-Messiah hype after she died doesn't know it? We are all responsible for the choices we make, even when our choice is to not make a choice. To attempt to excuse people from their responsibility as human beings to own their own decisions is to infantilize them, to render them nothing more than brain-damaged children who can't possibly be expected to make their own decisions. Who exactly is it insulting 'your people' now? The person treating them like adults and demanding they act like it? Or the person who insists they can't be expected to know what they're doing? I'm not excusing them, I'm suggesting that their experiences aren't as "worldly" as yours, that the information they're offered and the choices available to them aren't as easy or as informed as you'd like to believe. That when you have, for generations, been told that this is the way things are that a shift in view point isn't an easy thing. Especially when the same Dogma continues to be taught and expounded upon. Reserve your hate for those who truly deserve it by maintaining a poisonous system for their own gratification and glory, rather than those who might otherwise have lives you consider blameless but for the place of their birth. You'll find people far easier to persuade if you don't act like they all need to be shot on principle alone.
Ayallah Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 900	Posted - 2017.05.05 13:32:30 - [59] - Quote Two pages into an off-topic discussion thread and it has turned into a debate about slavery. I am guessing within another 3 it will be about comparing who is the most Caldari. As strength goes.
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 227	Posted - 2017.05.05 13:34:53 - [60] - Quote Ayallah wrote: Two pages into an off-topic discussion thread and it has turned into a debate about slavery. I am guessing within another 3 it will be about comparing who is the most Caldari. I'm not debating slavery. I'm suggesting the number of people Arrendis actually needs to shoot is far smaller than she believes.

Valerie Valate Church of The Crimson Saviour Sani-Sabik 2141	Posted - 2017.05.05 14:05:54 - [61] - Quote So, there I was, somewhat rashly, having rented out a ground-car, and going for a spin in the desert, to get away from it all, and be able to think without distraction, when the car hit a rock and punctured the tyre. I looked around, and there was nothing in sight except sand, and the occasional rock. So, I tied my dress to the car's radio mast, to act as a flag, and awaited rescue. Lo, some time later, a ground car passed by, and came to a halt. The driver got out, and asked me if I was alright. So, I said "Yes, fine. Say, do you know the way to Kaztropolis ?" To which the other motorist said "Sorry, I'm a stranger here myself". And with that, they departed. Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 227	Posted - 2017.05.05 14:13:31 - [62] - Quote Valerie Valate wrote: So, there I was, somewhat rashly, having rented out a ground-car, and going for a spin in the desert, to get away from it all, and be able to think without distraction, when the car hit a rock and punctured the tyre. I looked around, and there was nothing in sight except sand, and the occasional rock. So, I tied my dress to the car's radio mast, to act as a flag, and awaited rescue. Lo, some time later, a ground car passed by, and came to a halt. The driver got out, and asked me if I was alright. So, I said "Yes, fine. Say, do you know the way to Kaztropolis ?" To which the other motorist said "Sorry, I'm a stranger here myself". And with that, they departed. This story seems light hearted.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3395	Posted - 2017.05.05 15:21:15 - [63] - Quote Halcyon Ember wrote: I'm not excusing them, I'm suggesting that their experiences aren't as "worldly" as yours, that the information they're offered and the choices available to them aren't as easy or as informed as you'd like to believe. That when you have, for generations, been told that this is the way things are that a shift in view point isn't an easy thing. Especially when the same Dogma continues to be taught and expounded upon. Reserve your hate for those who truly deserve it by maintaining a poisonous system for their own gratification and glory, rather than those who might otherwise have lives you consider blameless but for the place of their birth. You'll find people far easier to persuade if you don't act like they all need to be shot on principle alone. Are they human beings? Are they capable of rational thought? Are they capable of empathy? Do they want to be enslaved? To see their children under the lash? What other 'learning' do you need? You talk of reserving my hate for those who maintain the system... the system is maintained by the apathy of the common men and women of Amarr. Speak all you want about the terrible monsters keeping the masses down... but those monsters make up less than 0.001% of the Empire. The masses are kept down because the masses let themselves be 'kept down'. Because for all you plead oppression, the masses of Amarr still get to hold themselves better than a slave. The most menial drudge of a free Amarr holds himself above the most skilled and cared-for slave. You seek to excuse the masses' apathy with feeble whining about 'they don't know any better'. They are human beings. They can see other human beings. They can imagine whether or not they would want to be slaves themselves. In every other major culture of New Eden, that is enough to say 'slavery is wrong'. But not in Amarr. Because the dregs, the poor, and the vermin at the bottom of Amarr society still get to tell themselves 'hey, at least I'm not a slave'. The idea that they should need more persuasion than 'would you want that to be you?' is insane.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3395	Posted - 2017.05.05 15:22:39 - [64] - Quote Ayallah wrote: Two pages into an off-topic discussion thread and it has turned into a debate about slavery. I am guessing within another 3 it will be about comparing who is the most Caldari. As long as it keeps those arguments from detailing other threads, that's kind of it's purpose, yes. Congratulations on being able to grasp elementary concepts, Ayallah.
Aria Jenneth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 3697	Posted - 2017.05.05 15:26:42 - [65] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Are they human beings? Are they capable of rational thought? Are they capable of empathy? Do they want to be enslaved? To see their children under the lash? What other 'learning' do you need? You talk of reserving my hate for those who maintain the system... the system is maintained by the apathy of the common men and women of Amarr. Speak all you want about the terrible monsters keeping the masses down... but those monsters make up less than 0.001% of the Empire. The masses are kept down because the masses let themselves be 'kept down'. Because for all you plead oppression, the masses of Amarr still get to hold themselves better than a slave. The most menial drudge of a free Amarr holds himself above the most skilled and cared-for slave. You seek to excuse the masses' apathy with feeble whining about 'they don't know any better'. They are human beings. They can see other human beings. They can imagine whether or not they would want to be slaves themselves. In every other major culture of New Eden, that is enough to say 'slavery is wrong'. But not in Amarr. Because the dregs, the poor, and the vermin at the bottom of Amarr society still get to tell themselves 'hey, at least I'm not a slave'. The idea that they should need more persuasion than 'would you want that to be you?' is insane. Then the world is insane. Setting empathy aside is at least as human as experiencing it. Do you suffer the same misery as Miz does, Arrendis? Endlessly expecting the world to be more than it is? If you don't, then maybe channeling her isn't a good idea.
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 227	Posted - 2017.05.05 15:29:44 - [66] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Halcyon Ember wrote: I'm not excusing them, I'm suggesting that their experiences aren't as "worldly" as yours, that the information they're offered and the choices available to them aren't as easy or as informed as you'd like to believe. That when you have, for generations, been told that this is the way things are that a shift in view point isn't an easy thing. Especially when the same Dogma continues to be taught and expounded upon. Reserve your hate for those who truly deserve it by maintaining a poisonous system for their own gratification and glory, rather than those who might otherwise have lives you consider blameless but for the place of their birth. You'll find people far easier to persuade if you don't act like they all need to be shot on principle alone. Are they human beings? Are they capable of rational thought? Are they capable of empathy? Do they want to be enslaved? To see their children under the lash? What other 'learning' do you need? You talk of reserving my hate for those who maintain the system... the system is maintained by the apathy of the common men and women of Amarr. Speak all you want about the terrible monsters keeping the masses down... but those monsters make up less than 0.001% of the Empire. The masses are kept down because the masses let themselves be 'kept down'. Because for all you plead oppression, the masses of Amarr still get to hold themselves better than a slave. The most menial drudge of a free Amarr holds himself above the most skilled and cared-for slave. You seek to excuse the masses' apathy with feeble whining about 'they don't know any better'. They are human beings. They can see other human beings. They can imagine whether or not they would want to be slaves themselves. In every other major culture of New Eden, that is enough to say 'slavery is wrong'. But not in Amarr. Because the dregs, the poor, and the vermin at the bottom of Amarr society still get to tell themselves 'hey, at least I'm not a slave'. The idea that they should need more persuasion than 'would you want that to be you?' is insane. I'm sure it's very comforting to cast judgement on people from so lofty a perch, in possession of riches and freedom most can't even comprehend. What Amarr needs is a change of doctrine and incentive for that change. If you're going to start executing people simply because they're guilty of being human, things are going to get very lonely. You do not understand their position, because you have not been raised to believe that you are better than everyone else. It is a comforting lie, of course people wish to believe it. They live in a society which reinforces that belief for them on a daily basis. Educate them first, give them an opportunity to see that what they have been told is wrong. And no, simply seeing slaves is not enough. Not when your entire culture is built to persuade you that slavery is the natural order for those "beneath you" and that this model of society is God's will. Especially when dissenting voices are silenced. You do not understand your enemy and thus you judge them unfairly. I understand why, your experiences do not allow you insight. Your culture promotes a different awareness. I'd rather not be at odds with you, I don't argue with your end goal, I simply disagree that genocide is required to achieve it.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3399	Posted - 2017.05.05 17:13:31 - [67] - Quote Aria Jenneth wrote: Do you suffer the same misery as Miz does, Arrendis? Endlessly expecting the world to be more than it is? If you don't, then maybe channeling her isn't a good idea. I don't expect it, Aria... but that doesn't mean I can't hold it accountable for failing.
Mizhara Del'thul Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 1612	Posted - 2017.05.05 17:23:02 - [68] - Quote I expect very little from anyone but me. I just don't quite so happily condone failure of even the most basic standards of humanity, or excuse crimes against it as if they're unavoidable or acceptable prices to pay, Aria. It is odd how you fail to understand me still, when I haven't hidden any part of what I am for so long. It is strange how you can not see the clear as day difference between me and Arrendis in this regard. Are you perhaps so blinded by now that all you see is antipathy towards what you have embraced, with none of the nuance or differences clear to you? If you wish to refute her, simply equivocating her words with mine are not going to work. That's a weapon for an entirely different kind of target.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3399	Posted - 2017.05.05 17:26:51 - [69] - Quote Halcyon Ember wrote: I'm sure it's very comforting to cast judgement on people from so lofty a perch, in possession of riches and freedom most can't even comprehend. I'm pretty sure that as a muck-covered eight-year-old, crawling through ventilation shafts on a space station to work for hours a day, every day, on machinery that had to function or we died... I still understood 'you own your crap' and 'treat people the way you'd want to be treated'. So don't go trying to pull that 'suuuuure, you're rich and a capsuleer' nonsense. It's just another line of crap you're selling to deflect from the idea that children know better than the adults you're trying to absolve. Quote: What Amarr needs is a change of doctrine and incentive for that change. If you're going to start executing people simply because they're guilty of being human, things are going to get very lonely. 'Don't get shot' doesn't sound like incentive? Quote: You do not understand their position, because you have not been raised to believe that you are better than everyone else. It is a comforting lie, of course people wish to believe it. And that is the crux of the problem, isn't it? You claim 'oh, it's not their fault, they're being lied to, the poor babies', and I say that's fedo droppings. They got their heads handed to them by the Jove, and they make common cause with the Caldari because they're afraid of being outgunned by the Federation. (And if you think they're only worried about 'the Federation + the Republic', then you're claiming the Republic is at least as strong as the State, something I'm pretty sure most State loyalists and just about every clear-eyed strategist in the cluster would find laughable). That simple math says 'I guess you're not better than everyone else, huh?' Your 'god' is a joke. An all-powerful being who tells his people they're the chosen ones and then delivers them right into the teeth of not one, but two enemies they can't defeat, and doesn't lift a finger to stop them from losing fully two-thirds of the slaves they've taken because he told them to. And if the Amarr aren't willing to acknowledge that because they're too lazy to bother to think? Because it's just 'easier' to not think about it? Then we're right back to tacit support for the atrocity, and an engraved 'Please, I want to be shot in the head'. Quote: I'd rather not be at odds with you, I don't argue with your end goal, I simply disagree that genocide is required to achieve it. Well, you're the Amarr here, sister. Better get to fixing the problem from within, before we do have enough bullets.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3399	Posted - 2017.05.05 17:31:23 - [70] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: It is strange how you can not see the clear as day difference between me and Arrendis in this regard. They see me saying they deserve to be shot, and hear it as saying we should start shooting now. Note the difference, Halcyon, Aria. I'm saying you need to fix your crap before we decide indiscrimnate genocide is the only option. Miz says it already is, and it should start today. The longer you wait, the more people who agree with me... decide we agree with her.

Mizhara Del'thul Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 1613	Posted - 2017.05.05 17:42:24 - [71] - Quote ... to clarify, I do not propose indiscriminate genocide. Do be careful of the hyperbole here. It's rarely recognized for what it is, which is why I am rather careful not to use it more than necessary. Implying genocide is the solution to aim for is not, and I'd be grateful if you didn't put those kinds of ridiculous words in my mouth Arrendis.
Aria Jenneth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 3702	Posted - 2017.05.05 17:43:47 - [72] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Aria Jenneth wrote: Do you suffer the same misery as Miz does, Arrendis? Endlessly expecting the world to be more than it is? If you don't, then maybe channeling her isn't a good idea. I don't expect it, Aria... but that doesn't mean I can't hold it accountable for failing. As you say, we've all got a bullet coming to us. Only, I don't think that's the way the world works. And I don't think that'll be changed, even if we all tried to make it. Actually I think we'd make it way worse.
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 227	Posted - 2017.05.05 17:44:17 - [73] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Well, you're the Amarr here, sister. Better get to fixing the problem from within, before we do have enough bullets. I feel they'd be no more likely to listen to a traitor and heretic than they would someone threatening to shoot them all. This change needs to come from those possessed of both faith and standing. If you have ideas to present beyond "shoot everyone" I'm all ears.
Che Biko Alexylva Paradox 930	Posted - 2017.05.05 18:13:36 - [74] - Quote You know what's funny? I remember making, or someone making, a thread like this quite some time ago, yet to the best of my abilities, I couldn't find it. Maybe I just remember talking about such a thread on another thread. Oh well. Nauplius wrote: [..] do not reach out into the Void. give up and go away INTO THE VOID be silent and do not speak INTO THE VOID be blind and do not gaze INTO THE VOID be numb and do not reach INTO THE VOID Coordination Channel for Consolidated Space Rescue Cooperation Open Letter to the Aidonis Foundation Directorate
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3400	Posted - 2017.05.05 18:34:47 - [75] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: ... to clarify, I do not propose indiscriminate genocide. Do be careful of the hyperbole here. It's rarely recognized for what it is, which is why I am rather careful not to use it more than necessary. Implying genocide is the solution to aim for is not, and I'd be grateful if you didn't put those kinds of ridiculous words in my mouth Arrendis. You've called for all-out war just in the last two weeks, Miz. And as we saw in that discussion from the replies other people had... that would mean people targeting civilian populations, and indiscriminate genocide. It may not be what you intend... but it's what you'll get.
Mizhara Del'thul Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 1613	Posted - 2017.05.05 18:38:35 - [76] - Quote That is absolute nonsense and you know it. Keep rewriting other people's posts if you wish, but don't start inventing that crap wholecloth with me.
Tsao Aubbes Crimson Serpent Syndicate Heiian Conglomerate 115	Posted - 2017.05.05 18:39:48 - [77] - Quote Considering this is the "off topic" thread: I somehow rolled out of bed while sleeping and hit my face on the floor. Quite a strange way to start off the (early) morning.. Tressith Sefira > You don't understand. She IS the awkward.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3400	Posted - 2017.05.05 18:51:42 - [78] - Quote That sounds painful, Aubbes. You ok?
Tsao Aubbes Crimson Serpent Syndicate Heiian Conglomerate 116	Posted - 2017.05.05 19:02:05 - [79] - Quote Arrendis wrote: That sounds painful, Aubbes. You ok? Of course. My bed doesn't sit too high, so it didn't hurt very bad. Tressith Sefira > You don't understand. She IS the awkward.
Aria Jenneth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 3702	Posted - 2017.05.05 19:03:02 - [80] - Quote Halcyon Ember wrote: Arrendis wrote: Well, you're the Amarr here, sister. Better get to fixing the problem from within, before we do have enough bullets. I feel they'd be no more likely to listen to a traitor and heretic than they would someone threatening to shoot them all. This change needs to come from those possessed of both faith and standing. If you have ideas to present beyond "shoot everyone" I'm all ears. The Empire could always, just, you know, stock up on laser crystals while they're stocking up on bullets. (Pretty sure this is what's actually happening, in the wake of the Elder Fleet and all that.) That way the war's way less likely to come and some progress can be made in the meantime.

Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3401	Posted - 2017.05.05 19:05:25 - [81] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: That is absolute nonsense and you know it. Keep rewriting other people's posts if you wish, but don't start inventing that crap wholecloth with me. What's nonsense? That all-out war will mean genocidal attacks on civilian populations? I'm sorry, did you miss this during our earlier conversation: Tyrel Toov wrote: Actually, it was working just fine until a zombie attacked the fleet with a Jovian super weapon. If we take steps to ensure mutually assured destruction (such as poisoning entire planets), then it's a fight even the Amarrians would be loath to take. We have proven our resolve to do it before, and the Amarrians know we will do it again if push comes to shove... and they are out one Jovian super weapon, if I recall. You say you don't want genocide.You know what? I believe you. I've never known you to intentionally advocate for killing non-combatants out of hand. It's still what your 'we should go to war now' will get. I don't want the war to start, but I've got no illusions about how we'd go about fighting it. Open that door for the noblest of purposes, but never doubt for a second that they'll be a whole lost of 'I just want my revenge' killing going on. Most of it won't be eggers, but it'll happen, and it won't be confined to legitimate military targets.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3401	Posted - 2017.05.05 19:12:32 - [82] - Quote Aria Jenneth wrote: Halcyon Ember wrote: Arrendis wrote: Well, you're the Amarr here, sister. Better get to fixing the problem from within, before we do have enough bullets. I feel they'd be no more likely to listen to a traitor and heretic than they would someone threatening to shoot them all. This change needs to come from those possessed of both faith and standing. If you have ideas to present beyond "shoot everyone" I'm all ears. The Empire could always, just, you know, stock up on laser crystals while they're stocking up on bullets. (Pretty sure this is what's actually happening, in the wake of the Elder Fleet and all that.) That way the war's way less likely to come and some progress can be made in the meantime. It pretty much is, Aria... but it's not making the war less likely, just more eventually destructive if the Empire doesn't change its ways. There's simply no room for compromise between 'we get to have slaves' and 'no, you don't'. It's a binary proposition. One of those positions is defensible by means other than 'na-na-na God says we can do it'. The other... is the Amarr. And Halcyon, weren't you just saying 'you don't understand them, you can't tell them how they should change'? Now you're demanding I provide all of the labyrinthine knowledge and particular details needed to make the Amarr say 'oh, wow, now we understand that commiting horrible crimes against entire races is wrong!'? I've offered a pretty simple and direct motivator. You want a different one... your turn.
Mizhara Del'thul Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 1614	Posted - 2017.05.05 19:21:08 - [83] - Quote Do you know what genocide even is? Of course there'll be civilian and non-combatants killed in staggering numbers, but that is a far cry from genocide. Genocide is something else entirely than the fever dreams of IGS blowhards that have no means of putting their words into action anyway. Capsuleers aren't even capable of seeing, not to mention firing upon such targets, and the baseliner military forces would have their hands somewhat full with the other side's military forces. The moment either side decided to divert assets towards "poisoning entire planets" like some sort of mustache twirling cartoon villains they would lose the war quite handily both due to misallocation of assets and the rest of New Eden immediately siding against them. No, any genocidal action would be acts of desperation by the side that ends up losing, if the other side offered no reasonable terms. A final '**** you' to make the price too high for the gain. More importantly, by then it'd be too late for any such act to be effective. Genocide in New Eden? I'm sure there's people who think that is a path to walk, but there is no practical way to actually do it. The scales are too large and no one with the kind of firepower required to do it - that'd be the Nations themselves - are under the kind of delusion required to think they could do it without all of New Eden descending upon them as a result. You think like a goon, Arrendis. New Eden doesn't work that way.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3403	Posted - 2017.05.05 19:26:49 - [84] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: You think like a goon, Arrendis. New Eden doesn't work that way. Right. Because there's no way the recent Kyonoke bioweapon attacks weren't initiated by a state actor. Except, apparently, they were. And there's no way someone intentionally aiming for a planetary population couldn't hit multiple locations in a period of days just by moving through civilian transport systems while contagious, but not yet expressing. Except, you know, they did. Put that on a single planet, moving around for four days, instead of through different star systems. It doesn't take nearly as much 'firepower' as you seem to think.
Mizhara Del'thul Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 1614	Posted - 2017.05.05 19:31:31 - [85] - Quote If it was that easy, it would have happened years ago, weeks ago, today, tomorrow, next week and years to come in a perpetual cycle of death. Hell, I'd probably be involved at some point. No Arrendis, genocide isn't that easily accomplished. Spend a few years carrying around the wrath required to enact something like that and I think you'll find it's easier said than done.
Diana Kim State Protectorate Caldari State 3165	Posted - 2017.05.05 19:33:20 - [86] - Quote Did I say already that Arrendis is bad? Well, Arrendis is bad. Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us. In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Morgana Tsukiyo Samsara Dynamics 160	Posted - 2017.05.05 19:33:53 - [87] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: If it was that easy, it would have happened years ago, weeks ago, today, tomorrow, next week and years to come in a perpetual cycle of death. Hell, I'd probably be involved at some point. No Arrendis, genocide isn't that easily accomplished. Spend a few years carrying around the wrath required to enact something like that and I think you'll find it's easier said than done. You are right, is not easy to accomplish. And that-¦s the only reason it hasn-¦t happened so far. Join Project Transcendence. Applied technology for the enhancement of human experience.
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 227	Posted - 2017.05.05 19:50:42 - [88] - Quote Tsao Aubbes wrote: Considering this is the "off topic" thread: I somehow rolled out of bed while sleeping and hit my face on the floor. Quite a strange way to start off the (early) morning.. That sounds awkward
Valerie Valate Church of The Crimson Saviour Sani-Sabik 2144	Posted - 2017.05.05 19:54:45 - [89] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: New Eden doesn't work that way. I shall quote, from recent history, in which 3 genocides/planet poisonings took place, by non-capsuleer factions. 1. The Blood Raider Covenant attack on Mabnem. In which the Covenant used a bioweapon on an inhabited world, causing a great many civilian deaths. The Amarr Empire responded by eradicating the Covenant presence from the Tandoiras constellation in The Bleak Lands. The rest of New Eden didn't really care. 2. The Equilibrium of Mankind attack on Reschard V. Suspected, but never 100% proven, was the EoM assault, with a Titan Doomsday weapon, on the planet Reschard V, resulting in the almost complete destruction of the biosphere, and the almost complete eradication of the population of the planet. New Eden didn't really care, other than declaring the EoM an outlaw group, that could be fired upon freely. No concerted campaign to locate and eradicate them. 3. The Elder Fleet assaults on several Amarr worlds. In which the Elder Fleet forces, in several incursions into Amarr Empire territory, deployed bioweapons onto civilian targets, resulting in millions of deaths. New Eden didn't really care, other than CONCORD enacting that Act that led to the Militia Wars. In all three cases, one can observe that the reaction by New Eden to genocides and planet poisonings is mostly apathy and indifference. Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Casserina Leshrac Sanguine Illuminations 152	Posted - 2017.05.05 19:58:59 - [90] - Quote Tsao Aubbes wrote: Considering this is the "off topic" thread: I somehow rolled out of bed while sleeping and hit my face on the floor. Quite a strange way to start off the (early) morning.. Oh Tsao :( *When thou enterest into the Sani Sabik, the Sani Sabik entereth into thee.*

Ibrahim Tash-Murkon Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 1041	Posted - 2017.05.05 20:41:04 - [91] - Quote A hot dog is a sandwich. "I give you the destiny of Faith, and you will bring its message to every planet of every star in the heavens: Go forth, conquer in my Name, and reclaim that which I have given." - Book of Reclaiming 22:13
Mizhara Del'thul Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 1615	Posted - 2017.05.05 20:44:05 - [92] - Quote Ibrahim Tash-Murkon wrote: A hot dog is a sandwich. This means war.
Makoto Priano Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Arataka Research Consortium 9726	Posted - 2017.05.05 20:50:01 - [93] - Quote Why, next you'll be saying a corndog is a sandwich, and that's just not true. Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Diana Kim State Protectorate Caldari State 3177	Posted - 2017.05.05 21:36:24 - [94] - Quote Valerie Valate wrote: Mizhara Del'thul wrote: New Eden doesn't work that way. I shall quote, from recent history, in which 3 genocides/planet poisonings took place, by non-capsuleer factions. 1. The Blood Raider Covenant attack on Mabnem. In which the Covenant used a bioweapon on an inhabited world, causing a great many civilian deaths. The Amarr Empire responded by eradicating the Covenant presence from the Tandoiras constellation in The Bleak Lands. The rest of New Eden didn't really care. 2. The Equilibrium of Mankind attack on Reschard V. Suspected, but never 100% proven, was the EoM assault, with a Titan Doomsday weapon, on the planet Reschard V, resulting in the almost complete destruction of the biosphere, and the almost complete eradication of the population of the planet. New Eden didn't really care, other than declaring the EoM an outlaw group, that could be fired upon freely. No concerted campaign to locate and eradicate them. 3. The Elder Fleet assaults on several Amarr worlds. In which the Elder Fleet forces, in several incursions into Amarr Empire territory, deployed bioweapons onto civilian targets, resulting in millions of deaths. New Eden didn't really care, other than CONCORD enacting that Act that led to the Militia Wars. In all three cases, one can observe that the reaction by New Eden to genocides and planet poisonings is mostly apathy and indifference. 4. Operation "Highlander" by Gallente occupants. In which Federals have sent armed troops to invade Caldari Prime - a planet that belongs to Caldari State and was acknowledged by Gallente Federation with a treaty of YC110. By starting the fights and occupation, they have lured standing Caldari capital fleet to low planetary orbit to support. As soon as Caldari capital ships, including a Leviathan-class titan, entered vulnerable to the planet position, Gallente has attacked them in space, sending a so-called in capsuleer circles "dread bomb". The falling down on the planet leviathan and remains or other capital ships killed millions and forever changed landscape of the planet, that will stand now as a monument to Gallentean treachery. Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us. In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Makoto Priano Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Arataka Research Consortium 9726	Posted - 2017.05.05 21:43:53 - [95] - Quote And yet she doesn't acknowledge that Tibus Heth ordered Admiral Yanala to Doomsday Caldari Prime. Hm. Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 227	Posted - 2017.05.05 21:49:27 - [96] - Quote Her selective approach to facts still surprises you?
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3410	Posted - 2017.05.06 01:26:37 - [97] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: If it was that easy, it would have happened years ago, weeks ago, today, tomorrow, next week and years to come in a perpetual cycle of death. Hell, I'd probably be involved at some point. No Arrendis, genocide isn't that easily accomplished. Spend a few years carrying around the wrath required to enact something like that and I think you'll find it's easier said than done. The fact that the blood raiders can figure out how to do it and you can't isn't my problem, Miz.
Mizhara Del'thul Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 1618	Posted - 2017.05.06 06:56:29 - [98] - Quote You think those drops sprinkled upon the sea of New Eden are examples of genocide, Arrendis? That's... you know, I think I'll let that be the case. Perhaps it's a good thing when people think such things warrant such nomenclature. I actually hope you'll never have to actually find out what genocide would look like in New Eden.
Che Biko Alexylva Paradox 934	Posted - 2017.05.06 12:21:52 - [99] - Quote Aria Jenneth wrote: Aw, Che.... Bless you. Coordination Channel for Consolidated Space Rescue Cooperation Open Letter to the Aidonis Foundation Directorate
Valerie Valate Church of The Crimson Saviour Sani-Sabik 2146	Posted - 2017.05.06 13:57:58 - [100] - Quote Today we learn that the attack on Reschard V, a mostly agricultural colony with no military presence or tactical value, with a population of some 100 million inhabitants, is not an example of genocide. The planet being rendered uninhabitable, with only 2000 survivors recovered, a survival rate of less than 1 in 50,000, for no discernible reason, does not count as an act of genocide or planet-poisoning. Well, wasn't that informative ? Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.

Aria Jenneth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 3736	Posted - 2017.05.06 15:44:03 - [101] - Quote I tried to find a good word for the opposite of "nonsense." Just "sense" isn't exactly an opposite, you see, and there don't seem to be any precise antonyms. So I tried "esnesnon," but then I just seemed backward. I tried reversing the prefix, but just got nonsense again. By this time my nonsense was multiplying, and it all came to nothing. I tried dividing it again, but still had nothing. In frustration, I tried dividing the nonsense by the nothing and the universe crashed.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3424	Posted - 2017.05.06 16:05:45 - [102] - Quote allsense? Prosense? Like, omg, yeah, totally?
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 230	Posted - 2017.05.06 17:02:59 - [103] - Quote Aria Jenneth wrote: I can't really speak for Ms. Kim, but, here's a bit of a rundown. Her answers are likely to differ a bit.... Aria "Understatement" Jenneth
Aria Jenneth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 3739	Posted - 2017.05.06 17:07:11 - [104] - Quote Halcyon Ember wrote: Aria Jenneth wrote: I can't really speak for Ms. Kim, but, here's a bit of a rundown. Her answers are likely to differ a bit.... Aria "Understatement" Jenneth And I just noticed I used "a bit" twice in two sentences. Oh well.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3426	Posted - 2017.05.06 17:08:34 - [105] - Quote It's why we get along so well. Aria and I are both so reserved and understated...
Che Biko Alexylva Paradox 938	Posted - 2017.05.07 00:02:09 - [106] - Quote Muck Raker wrote: Our sources have revealed a number of celebrity capsuleer romantic rumours, which include, but are not limited to, the following: I've lost almost all faith in Gutter Press. At least, I find it hard to believe that there are no such rumours about myself. Mizhir wrote: Diana Kim wrote: Valerie Valate wrote: Diana Kim wrote: However, if their products can be beneficial to the war effort, I will gladly meet them to discuss details. I hear the products are beneficial to morale and help reduce psychological stress. Ah, I wouldn't mind to try them then. Do we have any volunteer to show Ms. Kim how to use the devices? \o. Reporting for duty. Coordination Channel for Consolidated Space Rescue Cooperation Open Letter to the Aidonis Foundation Directorate
Blade Darth Room for Improvement Limited Expectations 85	Posted - 2017.05.07 08:31:54 - [107] - Quote Idk. about Ms. Kim but there is another person in this thread I'd love to show my devices to. Also keeping a special place in the corpse container. Is this offtopic? Am I doing it right?
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 231	Posted - 2017.05.07 10:05:08 - [108] - Quote Blade Darth wrote: Is this offtopic? Am I doing it right? Depends on what topic you were aiming at. If you're discussing your devices, it probably is though.
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 231	Posted - 2017.05.07 10:08:24 - [109] - Quote Che Biko wrote: I've lost almost all faith in Gutter Press. At least, I find it hard to believe that there are no such rumours about myself. Too many rumours to print, obviously. At least the rumours accurately reflect my own innocent nature.
Diana Kim State Protectorate Caldari State 3179	Posted - 2017.05.07 12:01:44 - [110] - Quote Blade Darth wrote: Idk. about Ms. Kim but there is another person in this thread I'd love to show my devices to. Also keeping a special place in the corpse container. Is this offtopic? Am I doing it right? What devices have you got? Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us. In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Mika Firestorm Your Friendly Neighborhood Logistics 67	Posted - 2017.05.07 12:58:13 - [111] - Quote Valerie Valate wrote: Today we learn that the attack on Reschard V, a mostly agricultural colony with no military presence or tactical value, with a population of some 100 million inhabitants, is not an example of genocide. The planet being rendered uninhabitable, with only 2000 survivors recovered, a survival rate of less than 1 in 50,000, for no discernible reason, does not count as an act of genocide or planet-poisoning. Well, wasn't that informative ? Wait wait wait. How comes it isn't genocide?! *State the nature of your medical emergency*
Elmund Egivand Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 2364	Posted - 2017.05.07 13:21:07 - [112] - Quote Mika Firestorm wrote: Valerie Valate wrote: Today we learn that the attack on Reschard V, a mostly agricultural colony with no military presence or tactical value, with a population of some 100 million inhabitants, is not an example of genocide. The planet being rendered uninhabitable, with only 2000 survivors recovered, a survival rate of less than 1 in 50,000, for no discernible reason, does not count as an act of genocide or planet-poisoning. Well, wasn't that informative ? Wait wait wait. How comes it isn't genocide?! Do you know what is sarcasm? A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Elsebeth Rhiannon Icecream Audit Office Electus Matari 826	Posted - 2017.05.07 13:59:06 - [113] - Quote Aria Jenneth wrote: Then the world is insane. You noticed.
Che Biko Alexylva Paradox 939	Posted - 2017.05.07 14:19:00 - [114] - Quote Thank you for posting here, Mme Rhiannon. It reminded me I was tempted to post something off-topic in reponse to something you posted a little while back: Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote: Ah capsuleers, eternally more worried about someone being rude or cowardly than about murder, torture, slavery and betrayal. Such a nice galaxy. Why aren't you my friend? Or are you? I think we should hang out some time. Peace. Coordination Channel for Consolidated Space Rescue Cooperation Open Letter to the Aidonis Foundation Directorate
Blade Darth Room for Improvement Limited Expectations 88	Posted - 2017.05.07 16:11:23 - [115] - Quote Diana Kim wrote: What devices have you got? The regular stuff you would find on a carrier converted into a bdsm club. Slaves, chains, whips, power drills, stasis pods that keep people awake... and more.
Ria Nieyli Amok. Goonswarm Federation 50604	Posted - 2017.05.07 16:44:38 - [116] - Quote Blade Darth wrote: Diana Kim wrote: What devices have you got? The regular stuff you would find on a carrier converted into a bdsm club. Slaves, chains, whips, power drills, stasis pods that keep people awake... and more. I find that your selection of devices has room for improvement.
Aria Jenneth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 3748	Posted - 2017.05.07 16:57:48 - [117] - Quote Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote: Aria Jenneth wrote: Then the world is insane. You noticed. Yes, if we accept Arrendis's beliefs. But that means it's madness to act like it should be otherwise. Try as you might, it won't be. We'll still be a mix of kindness and cruelty-- and disregard. People are people, and they'll keep being people. Possibly the greatest single monster of our world is a person who couldn't live with that, and decided to make us "better."
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3447	Posted - 2017.05.07 18:39:27 - [118] - Quote Aria Jenneth wrote: Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote: Aria Jenneth wrote: Then the world is insane. You noticed. Yes, if we accept Arrendis's beliefs. But that means it's madness to act like it should be otherwise. Try as you might, it won't be. We'll still be a mix of kindness and cruelty-- and disregard. People are people, and they'll keep being people. Possibly the greatest single monster of our world is a person who couldn't live with that, and decided to make us "better." By that logic, Aria, all laws are monstrous. People are going to murder, steal, commit assaults of all kinds upon one another, so why should we try to compel people not to? We'll always be a mixture of kindness and cruelty. Some offenses, though, we don't tolerate. 'God said to' is just as much bullshit as 'the fedo told me to do it'.
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 233	Posted - 2017.05.07 18:58:19 - [119] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: Blade Darth wrote: Diana Kim wrote: What devices have you got? The regular stuff you would find on a carrier converted into a bdsm club. Slaves, chains, whips, power drills, stasis pods that keep people awake... and more. I find that your selection of devices has room for improvement. With flavoured rope?
Jev North Anshar Incorporated Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group 884	Posted - 2017.05.07 19:41:49 - [120] - Quote Casserina Leshrac wrote: ... Our current assessment is that one of our Ventures sufficiently armed with light drones is more then enough to destroy a squadron of their most heavily armed frigates... found them... lacking... Faith and Commitment to their cause... lacking... pittance .. not worth much more than that ... bluster dissolve into the void even before the speak. Their resolve wither like grains of sand in the wind ... Traitors, cowards... Vermin, trash... Of course, I've seen plenty of people post at permanently docked-up enemies like they were trying to kill them with sheer condescension. Very rarely does it feel like they might actually succeed. Chapeau. "Real human flesh is cheaper than a machine. ItGÇÖs the axiomatic truth of our times."

Anabella Rella Gradient Electus Matari 2435	Posted - 2017.05.07 20:45:39 - [121] - Quote What in the world is going on here? When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.
Lasairiona Raske Raske Holdings 364	Posted - 2017.05.07 21:20:09 - [122] - Quote Anabella Rella wrote: What in the world is going on here? Popcorn? Are you a devil or an angel Sent here from heaven or from hell? Sweet temptress, I'm wrapped in your tangles Can't find my way out of your spell
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 234	Posted - 2017.05.07 21:22:01 - [123] - Quote Anabella Rella wrote: What in the world is going on here? Conversational deviance
Valerie Valate Church of The Crimson Saviour Sani-Sabik 2149	Posted - 2017.05.07 21:38:56 - [124] - Quote I thought Anabella was wearing weird glasses. But it turned out to be an optical illusion due to her tattoos. Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Aria Jenneth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 3754	Posted - 2017.05.08 00:53:15 - [125] - Quote Arrendis wrote: By that logic, Aria, all laws are monstrous. People are going to murder, steal, commit assaults of all kinds upon one another, so why should we try to compel people not to? We'll always be a mixture of kindness and cruelty. Some offenses, though, we don't tolerate. 'God said to' is just as much bullshit as 'the fedo told me to do it'. It should be pretty clear from the sheer number of non-believer entities cheerfully enslaving people that "God said to" isn't needed, Arrendis. Deciding "it is possible to have property rights over people" pretty well does it. Most of the outer, "pirate" societies have done just that. Unless you're really willing to say that the ships they fly are full of nothing but people who deserve to die, it seems hard to say that what you claim is so intuitively obvious is actually so obvious. If humans do a thing, it is within human capacities to do it. If humans do a thing in large numbers, as whole societies, then it's hard to say it's even against human tendencies to do that thing. People differ. Societies differ. Moral codes differ. There are some things (like stealing from your neighbor, as opposed to that person from two towns over) that humans really do seem to be wired against. For good or ill, taking slaves isn't one. (I think my predecessor must have had this argument a lot when she was working for the Cartel. This line of argument blends in my head into moral equivalencies between the empires and the pirate factions, arguing that they're nations, civilizations unto themselves, that are just a little rougher around the edges because of the harsh conditions they live in.)
Diana Kim State Protectorate Caldari State 3180	Posted - 2017.05.08 02:03:36 - [126] - Quote Blade Darth wrote: Diana Kim wrote: What devices have you got? The regular stuff you would find on a carrier converted into a bdsm club. Slaves, chains, whips, power drills, stasis pods that keep people awake... and more. Clubs? - prehistoric weapons. Slaves? - illegal within State borders. Chains? - outdated. Whips? - inefficient. Stasis pods that keep people awake? - we have hydrostatic capsules doing that. Power drills though look like something that could have some use. Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us. In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3452	Posted - 2017.05.08 06:32:00 - [127] - Quote Aria Jenneth wrote: It should be pretty clear from the sheer number of non-believer entities cheerfully enslaving people that "God said to" isn't needed, Arrendis. Nope. It's not needed. It is however, the excuse the Amarr use for why it's ok. The Angels and other criminal groups, on the other hand, don't even claim it's ok, only that they can do it, so why the hel not? And yes, as you assert the 'property rights' claim, that still doesn't mean any of those groups have claimed it to be ethical or morally-sound, only that they can get away with it, much like murder and theft. So if your defense of the Amarr is 'criminals do it too', that's really not exactly a great defense. Quote: Unless you're really willing to say that the ships they fly are full of nothing but people who deserve to die, it seems hard to say that what you claim is so intuitively obvious is actually so obvious. You mean those pirtate organizations? Like the Angels, the Blood Raiders, etc? Yeah. They all deserve to die. That's why we're killing close to a million Blood Raider ships a month, you know? Quote: If humans do a thing, it is within human capacities to do it. If humans do a thing in large numbers, as whole societies, then it's hard to say it's even against human tendencies to do that thing. There are some things (like stealing from your neighbor, as opposed to that person from two towns over) that humans really do seem to be wired against. Actually, no. People aren't wired against 'it's ok to steal from your neighbor' any more than they're wired against slavery. 'You shouldn't steal from your neighbor' is an outgrowth, of, you know, any given person being outnumbered by their neighbors. Coincidentally enough, most people will also say 'you shouldn't up and enslave your neighbor'. All that unpleasantness is reserved for 'two towns over'. For 'The Other', regardless of who that is. It's all basically tribalism in action. Members of the group are protected, those not in the group are fair game. And no, slavery is no different from theft or murder in those cases. After all, how often do you hear the Amarr saying 'you know what? We should totally enslave one another'? Y'don't. I wonder why. Oh, right, they're members of the tribe.
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 236	Posted - 2017.05.08 12:59:36 - [128] - Quote Morgana Tsukiyo wrote: I could really use some help acquiring the specs for the Sansha infomorph interfacing units and the architecture of the computational power that goes with it. Are you asking people with Sansha affiliation to open up their secrets, or for those amongst the community who shoot at the Sansha to be more discerning in how they dismantle the wreckage?
Morgana Tsukiyo Samsara Dynamics 169	Posted - 2017.05.08 13:02:14 - [129] - Quote Halcyon Ember wrote: Morgana Tsukiyo wrote: I could really use some help acquiring the specs for the Sansha infomorph interfacing units and the architecture of the computational power that goes with it. Are you asking people with Sansha affiliation to open up their secrets, or for those amongst the community who shoot at the Sansha to be more discerning in how they dismantle the wreckage? As long as it gets done, both are ok solutions. I-¦m really not picky. Join Project Transcendence. Applied technology for the enhancement of human experience.
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 236	Posted - 2017.05.08 13:10:17 - [130] - Quote Morgana Tsukiyo wrote: I-¦m really not picky. Noted

Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 236	Posted - 2017.05.08 15:09:40 - [131] - Quote Jason Galente wrote: Morgana Tsukiyo wrote: and sharing opinions as if they were something important You're not doing anything different here, you know.. the difference is that the rest of us are making direct points, something potentially productive (albeit rarely), and you're just 3rd partying on the discussion. That's far from productive. So why don't you go erect something, eh? See how annoying that is? Are you saying you're not going to erect something for her?
Jason Galente Tempest Legion 1123	Posted - 2017.05.08 15:23:22 - [132] - Quote Halcyon Ember wrote: Jason Galente wrote: Morgana Tsukiyo wrote: and sharing opinions as if they were something important You're not doing anything different here, you know.. the difference is that the rest of us are making direct points, something potentially productive (albeit rarely), and you're just 3rd partying on the discussion. That's far from productive. So why don't you go erect something, eh? See how annoying that is? Are you saying you're not going to erect something for her? *Bad Halcyon. Bad* Though I suppose I asked for that one.. Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole. And this foundation must be defended. *At any cost*
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 236	Posted - 2017.05.08 15:29:58 - [133] - Quote So did she.
Morgana Tsukiyo Samsara Dynamics 173	Posted - 2017.05.08 16:02:59 - [134] - Quote Halcyon Ember wrote: So did she. The erection is just a means to an end. You keep focusing on the parts and ignoring the entirety.... Join Project Transcendence. Applied technology for the enhancement of human experience.
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 239	Posted - 2017.05.08 17:03:26 - [135] - Quote I can focus on more than one thing at a time
Valerie Valate Church of The Crimson Saviour Sani-Sabik 2151	Posted - 2017.05.08 18:33:18 - [136] - Quote Halcyon Ember wrote: You can't lick your own elbow Not with that attitude you can't ! Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Aria Jenneth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 3768	Posted - 2017.05.09 02:07:17 - [137] - Quote So ... Arrendis? I need to stop talking with you about this, now. I'm sorry. I'd kind of like to continue, but, actually, I don't just speak for myself anymore, and I don't want to make trouble. To restate a couple things I've always been pretty clear about: I'm a moral relativist, and there's no one in this world I want to see dead ... which doesn't stop me killing them. No one has to deserve death-- or any other awful thing that might happen to them. The world doesn't work on such a convenient basis. It's not so neatly divided for your guns, or mine. This is filthy work we do, and we're rewarded for it handsomely. This maybe isn't a very popular point of view. That's okay, though.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3476	Posted - 2017.05.09 02:15:58 - [138] - Quote Aria Jenneth wrote: So ... Arrendis? I need to stop talking with you about this, now. You should consider, Aria, what it says about people when they find the idea of being decent to one another so dangerous that it can't even be discussed. And so should those requiring your silence.
Aria Jenneth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 3770	Posted - 2017.05.09 03:48:09 - [139] - Quote Arrendis wrote: You should consider, Aria, what it says about people when they find the idea of being decent to one another so dangerous that it can't even be discussed. And so should those requiring your silence. No one's requiring my silence. It's a judgment call, one I'm making. The Praefecta's faith is different from mine. The way I'd go about defending her civilization kind of leaves out something a little ... important, to her and those around us. To me, God's presence or absence makes basically no difference. That's not, of course, the way the Amarr themselves see it, though. Faith is a little central to their sense of themselves. For me, too. Just, differently. But I don't do any favors to the Praefecta, or, really, to myself, by defending them as my Angel predecessor would have, even if that's a well-worn path in my head. So ... for now, that's enough. And Arrendis, before you start in with something smug about God? God is probably the reason the Amarr are so strong. Whether He exists or not.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3478	Posted - 2017.05.09 04:02:57 - [140] - Quote Aria Jenneth wrote: The Praefecta's faith is different from mine. The way I'd go about defending her civilization kind of leaves out something a little ... important, to her and those around us. To me, God's presence or absence makes basically no difference. That's not, of course, the way the Amarr themselves see it, though. Faith is a little central to their sense of themselves. Well, considering the original point was that they justify not having to follow the same rules as everyone else because the magic sky-fairy says they don't.... yeah, God being part of their justification for committing crimes against humanity is kinda pertinent, I'll give you that. Quote: And Arrendis, before you start in with something smug about God? God is probably the reason the Amarr are so strong. Whether He exists or not. No argument there. Any commonality that can be used to draw a stark line betwee 'us' and 'them' is useful for tribal unity and strengthing the bonds ot the group. It doesn't have to be rationalGÇöin fact, it's best if the claim is specifically designed to not be testable. You wouldn't want your special claim to be something that can be disproven, after all. So, yeah. Belief in 'God' being a source of unity and strength? Totally agree. Especially if he doesn't exist. Edit to add: Heck, if it's something you can't prove, then you get the added benefit of being able to claim that everyone pointing out that you can't prove it is persecuting you for your beliefs. That helps to bring the community in more tightly, and strengthens the social bonds even more. Nothing brings people together like an outside attack, after all. The more completely untestable your claim is, the better.

Aria Jenneth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 3775	Posted - 2017.05.09 15:10:23 - [141] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Belief in 'God' being a source of unity and strength? Totally agree. Especially if he doesn't exist. Edit to add: Heck, if it's something you can't prove, then you get the added benefit of being able to claim that everyone pointing out that you can't prove it is persecuting you for your beliefs. That helps to bring the community in more tightly, and strengthens the social bonds even more. Nothing brings people together like an outside attack, after all. The more completely untestable your claim is, the better. He's probably about as real as the "rights," including "human rights," the Gallente and certain Matari worship, Arrendis. Though the idea of "inalienable rights" seems like it has the potential to tear people apart instead of drawing them together. ... Gods, it just occurred to me how much fun Gallentean heretics must be! "I have an inherent right never to pay any taxes and to do basically whatever I want because of this obscure pseudo-legal arcana I found by cross-referencing a set of archaic legal wording with some weird snippets of history I once heard about and am conveniently interpreting in my own favor!" Is that a thing? That happens? Oh, please do let it be!
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 243	Posted - 2017.05.09 15:19:59 - [142] - Quote Aria Jenneth wrote: Gods, it just occurred to me how much fun Gallentean heretics must be! Fun, but with significantly less punch to their denouncement. "You'll rot in federal jail" doesn't have quite the dramatic impact as "You'll never go to heaven".
Aria Jenneth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 3775	Posted - 2017.05.09 15:34:09 - [143] - Quote Halcyon Ember wrote: Aria Jenneth wrote: Gods, it just occurred to me how much fun Gallentean heretics must be! Fun, but with significantly less punch to their denouncement. "You'll rot in federal jail" doesn't have quite the dramatic impact as "You'll burn forever in the fires of Hell." Oh. Yeah ... they probably don't have penitence pits either (still curious), since the whole business is organized around things you're not allowed to do to people. Doesn't that kind of let them keep making all kinds of noise from prison (and after) about how their self-declared rights are getting stomped all over, though? I mean, there's no point at which you can just shoot them, right?
Mizhir TURN LEFT HYDRA RELOADED 75202	Posted - 2017.05.09 15:38:40 - [144] - Quote Aria Jenneth wrote: Gods, it just occurred to me how much fun Gallentean heretics must be! And this is why the Federation must be destroyed! Death rides a fast C4mel
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 244	Posted - 2017.05.09 16:08:15 - [145] - Quote Aria Jenneth wrote: Halcyon Ember wrote: Aria Jenneth wrote: Gods, it just occurred to me how much fun Gallentean heretics must be! Fun, but with significantly less punch to their denouncement. "You'll rot in federal jail" doesn't have quite the dramatic impact as "You'll burn forever in the fires of Hell." Oh. Yeah ... they probably don't have penitence pits either (still curious), since the whole business is organized around things you're not allowed to do to people. Doesn't that kind of let them keep making all kinds of noise from prison (and after) about how their self-declared rights are getting stomped all over, though? I mean, there's no point at which you can just shoot them, right? Obviously, but for the same lifetime of the average Amarrian heretic anyway. For many the prospect of prison no doubt adds spice to the enterprise. Loss of your post mortal existence is a troubling thing, however, which no doubt explains the absence with which people cling to their new beliefs. It opens up to far more dramatic extremes of thought than simply flouting legalities. You're still curious about the pits?
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3487	Posted - 2017.05.09 16:36:21 - [146] - Quote Aria Jenneth wrote: He's probably about as real as the "rights," including "human rights," the Gallente and certain Matari worship, Arrendis. Though the idea of "inalienable rights" seems like it has the potential to tear people apart instead of drawing them together. ... Gods, it just occurred to me how much fun Gallentean heretics must be! I thought you were more familiar with the sociological underpinnings that determine fundamental rights, Aria. Quote: "I have an inherent right never to pay any taxes and to do basically whatever I want because of this obscure pseudo-legal arcana I found by cross-referencing a set of archaic legal wording with some weird snippets of history I once heard about and am conveniently interpreting in my own favor!" Is that a thing? That happens? Oh, please do let it be! Indeed it is. Suck whack-a-dos style themselves 'sovereign citizens', and hold that the government has no authority over them because of their natural rights. And they're perfectly correct regarding those natural rights: anyone has the natural right to refuse to submit to taxation. Doing so, however, effectively opts-out of the social contract between them and the people around them (eg: 'society') and so they're no longer entitled to the goods and services society providesGÇöincluding things like stargate activation so they can go live in another society. I expect the Gallente argue about this quite a lot. I know on Huggar station, our response was pretty straightforward and fair: 'You're right, you don't have to pay taxes. Disabling the door controls and shutting off life support to your quarters now.'
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3487	Posted - 2017.05.09 16:40:15 - [147] - Quote Halcyon Ember wrote: Loss of your post mortal existence You mean being told that you won't get the completely unverifiable thing that you only thought you were getting because you were told that you were by the same people who tell you 'X, Y, and Z are bad unless it's us doing it, because the invisible magical sky fairy we can't actually prove exists said we should'.
Aria Jenneth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 3781	Posted - 2017.05.09 16:59:14 - [148] - Quote Arrendis wrote: I thought you were more familiar with the sociological underpinnings that determine fundamental rights, Aria. Uh ... not really? I know the most about sociological underpinnings from Caldari, Achur, Amarr, and Angel Cartel perspectives. None of those are big on fundamental rights. I had to leave the Federation before I could really get to understand the deep theory, there; got too depressed. Do want to go back someday. Quote: Indeed it is. Suck whack-a-dos style themselves 'sovereign citizens', and hold that the government has no authority over them because of their natural rights. And they're perfectly correct regarding those natural rights: anyone has the natural right to refuse to submit to taxation. Doing so, however, effectively opts-out of the social contract between them and the people around them (eg: 'society') and so they're no longer entitled to the goods and services society providesGÇöincluding things like stargate activation so they can go live in another society. I expect the Gallente argue about this quite a lot. I know on Huggar station, our response was pretty straightforward and fair: 'You're right, you don't have to pay taxes. Disabling the door controls and shutting off life support to your quarters now.' ... huh. I'm a little surprised your belief in fundamental rights lets you be that, well, casual about the rebuttal. It does seem kind of poetic, though.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3489	Posted - 2017.05.09 17:34:54 - [149] - Quote Aria Jenneth wrote: I'm a little surprised your belief in fundamental rights lets you be that, well, casual about the rebuttal. It does seem kind of poetic, though. Well, there's two kinds of 'fundamental rights', really. First, there's your actual, inviolate natural rights. These rights cannot be taken away from you. Doesn't matter what anyone does, how much power they exert, they can't take these rights away. These rights can summed up fairly succinclty: You have the natural right to do whatever it is you are capable of doing. This means that yes, technically, you have the natural right to kill other people. Those people have the natural right to get pretty pissed off about the attempt and try to kill you right back. It's not a situation conducive to 'polite society'. Or, you know, 'society', at all. But they're there, and they underlie everything. That's what the SovCit mo-mos are on about when they talk about their right to not be taxed, even though most of them don't quite Get ItGäó. Then you have your 'fundamental rights'. These are the basic rights that make society society, and they can be summed up pretty succinctly, too, though it involves an overview of the concept of the social contract: It is desirous and beneficial to any population that the members of that population refrain from actions that injure, harm, or impair the well-being of the population as a whole. Pursuant to those ends, the individual agrees to waive their natural rights to undertake those actionsGÇösuch as killing one anotherGÇöin order to secure assurances that others will waive their natural rights to subject the individual to those self-same actions. (eg: "You agree not to kill people, and people will agree not to kill you.") Agreement to participate in the social contract is not required to be explicit, and shall be tacitly inferred from participation in, and benefiting from, society. Thus: "I have the fundamental right to expect that I will not be subjected to the injurious behaviors I am expected to refrain from within society."
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3489	Posted - 2017.05.09 17:42:25 - [150] - Quote The corrolary that makes the 'well, ok, we'll just turn off the air' thing work, btw, is 'that also means that if you decide you don't want to meet your obligations to society, society doesn't need to meet its obligations to you.'

Aria Jenneth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 3790	Posted - 2017.05.09 17:47:59 - [151] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Well, there's two kinds of 'fundamental rights', really. First, there's your actual, inviolate natural rights. These rights cannot be taken away from you. Doesn't matter what anyone does, how much power they exert, they can't take these rights away. These rights can summed up fairly succinclty: You have the natural right to do whatever it is you are capable of doing. This means that yes, technically, you have the natural right to kill other people. Those people have the natural right to get pretty pissed off about the attempt and try to kill you right back. It's not a situation conducive to 'polite society'. Or, you know, 'society', at all. But they're there, and they underlie everything. That's what the SovCit mo-mos are on about when they talk about their right to not be taxed, even though most of them don't quite Get ItGäó. Okay, with you so far. ... Don't think I'd frame it quite like that, but, okay. Quote: Then you have your 'fundamental rights'. These are the basic rights that make society society, and they can be summed up pretty succinctly, too, though it involves an overview of the concept of the social contract: It is desirous and beneficial to any population that the members of that population refrain from actions that injure, harm, or impair the well-being of the population as a whole. Pursuant to those ends, the individual agrees to waive their natural rights to undertake those actionsGÇösuch as killing one anotherGÇöin order to secure assurances that others will waive their natural rights to subject the individual to those self-same actions. (eg: "You agree not to kill people, and people will agree not to kill you.") Agreement to participate in the social contract is not required to be explicit, and shall be tacitly inferred from participation in, and benefiting from, society. Thus: "I have the fundamental right to expect that I will not be subjected to the injurious behaviors I am expected to refrain from within society." Okay. ... It's a pretty individualistic take on how society works, though. Also, I'm unclear on how you can consider something "fundamental" that can vary really widely from society to society. Take the "right" not to be murdered. Say you're in one of the old iron age feudal aristocratic states, like pre-uplift Achura (it's been on my mind a little lately). It doesn't take murdering someone for you to lose the right not to be murdered; all it takes, for a common person, is to offend a member of the aristocracy, who then acquires the right to murder you. Snikk! Better luck in the spirit world (but don't **** off the celestials, either). It's not fundamental in the slightest. Basically everything outside of that first primary "right" is negotiable, and sometimes negotiated.
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 244	Posted - 2017.05.09 17:54:42 - [152] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Halcyon Ember wrote: Loss of your post mortal existence You mean being told that you won't get the completely unverifiable thing that you only thought you were getting because you were told that you were by the same people who tell you 'X, Y, and Z are bad unless it's us doing it, because the invisible magical sky fairy we can't actually prove exists said we should'. Yes [Insert lazy attack on matari beliefs]
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3491	Posted - 2017.05.09 18:14:51 - [153] - Quote Halcyon Ember wrote: Yes [Insert lazy attack on matari beliefs] First, I think you'd need to have the first idea what those are.
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 244	Posted - 2017.05.09 18:18:02 - [154] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Halcyon Ember wrote: Yes [Insert lazy attack on matari beliefs] First, I think you'd need to have the first idea what those are. I'm just not sure what your agenda is at the moment, I think we've established that neither of us are "Believers". The truth behind the belief has no relevance to the point I was making to Aria, simply that it is believed in, and believed in fervently.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3491	Posted - 2017.05.09 18:26:27 - [155] - Quote Aria Jenneth wrote: Okay. ... It's a pretty individualistic take on how society works, though. Also, I'm unclear on how you can consider something "fundamental" that can vary really widely from society to society. I'd say, rather, that it's a view of how society works from the limited perspective of a being that can only perceiving being one individual at a time. I mean, it's all well and good to talk about 'the collective', but with the exception of the Sansha, and the faux-Sansha that wander around claiming to be 'transhumanists' instead of 'meat drones', people don't experience collective motivations. They experience individual motivations. Some of those might be framed as prioritizing the collective, if that's how the individual was taught to think, but they're still experienced individually. Quote: Take the "right" not to be murdered. Say you're in one of the old iron age feudal aristocratic states, like pre-uplift Achura (it's been on my mind a little lately). It doesn't take murdering someone for you to lose the right not to be murdered; all it takes, for a common person, is to offend a member of the aristocracy, who then acquires the right to murder you. Snikk! Better luck in the spirit world (but don't **** off the celestials, either). Is that framed as murder, though, or is that frames as societally-sanctioned execution? I know that seems like a semantic thing, but that's kind of the crux of things: societies themselves are just constructs, just illusory fictions that individuals tell themselves (again, because you can't experience things as plural) in order to reassure themselves of the general safety of their living conditions. We cling to social order because we fear the dangers inherent in not having others to support us and help us meet the needs we can't necessarily meet ourselves. Which is a perfectly natural fear. But 'society' is just an abstraction, a shared hallucination of consensus. And so unless the society explicitly says that that aritsocrat killing the commoner is murderGÇöand that it's okGÇöthen murder is still not ok. And I think you'll find that in those iron age societies, that aristocrat's actions would've been seen as 'justice' or 'discipline', not 'murder'. Quote: It's not fundamental in the slightest. Basically everything outside of that first primary "right" is negotiable, and sometimes negotiated. You miss the specific meaning of 'fundamental' in this framework. It refers to the mutual abrogation of natural rights in order to make society work. It doesn't matter which rights are abrogated, only that everyone is abrogating their rights in accordance with a collectively agreed-upon societal framework. In your example, everyone in that society tacitly agrees that that aristocrat's got the right to kill.... but again, I doubt they'd call it murder.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3491	Posted - 2017.05.09 18:28:35 - [156] - Quote Halcyon Ember wrote: I'm just not sure what your agenda is at the moment Having laid out precisely what my agenda is, just again in the last few days, I guess I'll leave you to find the trail of breadcrumbs.
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 244	Posted - 2017.05.09 18:30:49 - [157] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Halcyon Ember wrote: I'm just not sure what your agenda is at the moment Having laid out precisely what my agenda is, just again in the last few days, I guess I'll leave you to find the trail of breadcrumbs. 1) Shoot all slavers 2) Make childish comments "sky fairy" I'm not claiming you have to respect a religion you hate for its practices, but you don't have to be Diana Kim about it.
Aria Jenneth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 3790	Posted - 2017.05.09 18:39:42 - [158] - Quote Arrendis wrote: I'd say, rather, that it's a view of how society works from the limited perspective of a being that can only perceiving being one individual at a time. I mean, it's all well and good to talk about 'the collective', but with the exception of the Sansha, and the faux-Sansha that wander around claiming to be 'transhumanists' instead of 'meat drones', people don't experience collective motivations. They experience individual motivations. Some of those might be framed as prioritizing the collective, if that's how the individual was taught to think, but they're still experienced individually. Hm. Okay. Quote: Is that framed as murder, though, or is that frames as societally-sanctioned execution? I know that seems like a semantic thing, but that's kind of the crux of things: societies themselves are just constructs, just illusory fictions that individuals tell themselves (again, because you can't experience things as plural) in order to reassure themselves of the general safety of their living conditions. We cling to social order because we fear the dangers inherent in not having others to support us and help us meet the needs we can't necessarily meet ourselves. Which is a perfectly natural fear. But 'society' is just an abstraction, a shared hallucination of consensus. And so unless the society explicitly says that that aritsocrat killing the commoner is murderGÇöand that it's okGÇöthen murder is still not ok. And I think you'll find that in those iron age societies, that aristocrat's actions would've been seen as 'justice' or 'discipline', not 'murder'. Correct. But, also, since societies define murder in the first place, it's also not murder in the absence of any society at all. In either case, it's being killed without having previously killed or threatened to kill. Quote: You miss the specific meaning of 'fundamental' in this framework. It refers to the mutual abrogation of natural rights in order to make society work. It doesn't matter which rights are abrogated, only that everyone is abrogating their rights in accordance with a collectively agreed-upon societal framework. In your example, everyone in that society tacitly agrees that that aristocrat's got the right to kill.... but again, I doubt they'd call it murder. I ... guess it doesn't seem very fundamental if it's not mutual. Or if it requires conditions. Or ... a lot of other stuff, actually. "Fundamental" seems to basically mean "foundational," and ... it seems like the rights you're talking about here are just ordinary legal ones. And, particularly, I'm not seeing any right here that comes with just being human. You were talking about "human rights" before, right? I recognize certain duties as coming with being human, but that's just a part of my faith. We've got legal rights in the Caldari State, too. You just lose them all if you lose your citizenship, at which point how you're treated by a citizen is between you, the citizen, and the citizen's conscience.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3492	Posted - 2017.05.09 18:59:56 - [159] - Quote Aria Jenneth wrote: Correct. But, also, since societies define murder in the first place, it's also not murder in the absence of any society at all. Precisely. Societies define the collective good for the society. Quote: I ... guess it doesn't seem very fundamental if it's not mutual. Or if it requires conditions. Or ... a lot of other stuff, actually. "Fundamental" seems to basically mean "foundational," and ... it seems like the rights you're talking about here are just ordinary legal ones. And, particularly, I'm not seeing any right here that comes with just being human. You were talking about "human rights" before, right? Well, on the one hand, of course it's all mutual. Everyone's mutually agreeing to the same framework. That doesn't necessarily mean agreeing everyone occupies the same place in that framework. But the aristocrat would agree, for example, that if a higher authority, a 'king' for example, stripped him of his lands, rank, and title, then he himself could also be executed out of hand for daring to behave in the same manner as the man he's executed. As for 'human rights', in a very real way, these harken back to the concept of natural rights. Human rights are, essentially, the right to basic consideration for biological, psychological, and emotional needs. In the absence of societyGÇöif we were, still, simply another primate attempting to scratch out an existence in the wilds of whatever planetGÇöthese would be the things we would seek out, universally. A few examples: Life. Life is often listed as an 'inalienable right' or a 'human right', but what it really is is simply a prerequisite. To deny someone lifeGÇöie, to kill themGÇöis to deny them the exercise of their other rights. 'Liberty'. A grand exposition and imagery, but really, it just comes down to agency, the ability to exercize one's own will as it pertains to how you go about doing the rest of the stuff on the list. 'Happiness'. Again, it's a lot of high-falutin' language for a far more concrete concept: Satisfaction, fulfillment. Joy is ephemeral, it's fleeting and gone. What people have the right to is to feel like their decisions and their actions matter, if only to them. It's the mental half of agency. And again, the reason those two are 'basic human rights' goes back to the idea that "this is what all humans would instinctively seek out for themselves if there was no society". "Equality" - this one's kind of a no-brainer. The social contract only works if everyone's playing by the same rules. Those rules may give an advantage to some, and disadvantage others, which would seem like a violation of this principle, but the idea that it doesn't matter which of us is the artistocrat, whoever that person is has the exact same set of legitmate choices is what matters. The Gallente like to think one's all about individual equality, but really, that's just part of their 'counting noses matters' delusions. And on and on.
Aria Jenneth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 3791	Posted - 2017.05.09 19:32:42 - [160] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Well, on the one hand, of course it's all mutual. Everyone's mutually agreeing to the same framework. That doesn't necessarily mean agreeing everyone occupies the same place in that framework. But the aristocrat would agree, for example, that if a higher authority, a 'king' for example, stripped him of his lands, rank, and title, then he himself could also be executed out of hand for daring to behave in the same manner as the man he's executed. As for 'human rights', in a very real way, these harken back to the concept of natural rights. Human rights are, essentially, the right to basic consideration for biological, psychological, and emotional needs. In the absence of societyGÇöif we were, still, simply another primate attempting to scratch out an existence in the wilds of whatever planetGÇöthese would be the things we would seek out, universally. A few examples: Life. Life is often listed as an 'inalienable right' or a 'human right', but what it really is is simply a prerequisite. To deny someone lifeGÇöie, to kill themGÇöis to deny them the exercise of their other rights. 'Liberty'. A grand exposition and imagery, but really, it just comes down to agency, the ability to exercize one's own will as it pertains to how you go about doing the rest of the stuff on the list. 'Happiness'. Again, it's a lot of high-falutin' language for a far more concrete concept: Satisfaction, fulfillment. Joy is ephemeral, it's fleeting and gone. What people have the right to is to feel like their decisions and their actions matter, if only to them. It's the mental half of agency. And again, the reason those two are 'basic human rights' goes back to the idea that "this is what all humans would instinctively seek out for themselves if there was no society". "Equality" - this one's kind of a no-brainer. The social contract only works if everyone's playing by the same rules. Those rules may give an advantage to some, and disadvantage others, which would seem like a violation of this principle, but the idea that it doesn't matter which of us is the artistocrat, whoever that person is has the exact same set of legitmate choices is what matters. The Gallente like to think one's all about individual equality, but really, that's just part of their 'counting noses matters' delusions. And on and on. ... hm. So, you're saying that a proper society necessarily provides all of those things as part of the "social contract." Really, though, I think what a proper society provides is limitation-- repression or redirection of the animal you're speaking of, rather than its fulfillment. Its primary purpose is to allow there to be more and more humans, more and more closely intertwined and connected, without us collectively indulging the time-honored human habit of murdering-- or rather, killing-- each other. To that end, there's been a lot of tale-spinning, and a lot of systematized loss of life, liberty, happiness, and equality. That, not respect for any individual's natural needs or wants, seems to me to be what makes a civilization. And it's not clear to me that this is at all a bad thing. Obviously it's still a work in progress, and it probably will be as long as there's more than one of these experiments going. I like the experiment that the Federation represents, which is maybe why I get so upset when I see stuff like the U-Nats. They undercut the experiment, threaten to make the Federation more like the rest of us: more or less authoritarian powers where "rights" are a matter of law (at most) or of courtesy, rather than something inborn and inherent. They make me more confident I'm right about something I don't want to be right about: that when it comes to "liberty," human beings aren't capable of living with what they want. That we get frightened, and look for some guiding source of authority to lead with a strong hand. That of course is what I did, myself. But I'd rather be weak than ordinary, in this.

Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3496	Posted - 2017.05.09 21:08:38 - [161] - Quote Aria Jenneth wrote: ... hm. So, you're saying that a proper society necessarily provides all of those things as part of the "social contract." Really, though, I think what a proper society provides is limitation-- repression or redirection of the animal you're speaking of, rather than its fulfillment. It's not so much 'fulfillment' as 'channeling'. The animal is going to seek those things: to seek to meet its essential psychological need for agency and investment/satisfaction, just as it's going to seek to meet it's phsyiological needs. Society's responsibility is to provide ways to meet those psychological needs without feeling unduly restrained, or that the guidance of those drives into mutually-beneficial pursuits is particularly onerous. When that happens, that's when people feel oppressed, and lash out from desperation. At a small scale, this is crime. On a larger scale, revolutionGÇöwhich is a blatant and obvious indicator that the 'civilization' has failed. The civilization may continue to limp along, as the Empire has since the Minmatar Rebellion, and can regain cohesion and regain its strength, but the fact you can walk doesn't mean you didn't break your leg six years ago. I'd also say that systemic loss of life, liberty, et al in the service of the goal of 'more humans living closer together' isn't exactly an endorsement of the systemic loss of life etc. It's more a reflection of the basic nature of Man as a social animal. When those losses of life happen, they're not about 'we want to live with you guys so we will kill you until you let us'. They're about 'we want what you have, so we can make more of us. And if you let us make you into us, we won't kill your men and make brood-mares of your women'. It's not exactly a civilized goal. Conflict like thatGÇöwarGÇöis actually a failure of civilization. You have two societies coming into conflict because neither one recognizes members of the other society as 'us', and thus part of the protected group. To call that something in service of the larger goal of society (the abstract, as opposed to the dominance goal of a specific society) is rather like saying that killing all human beings is a great way to eliminate sickness and reduce ihfant mortality, in the long run. Sure, if everyone's dead, nobody's getting sick, and no babies die if no babies are born... but I'm not sure it really serves the spirit of your goal. Quote: They make me more confident I'm right about something I don't want to be right about: that when it comes to "liberty," human beings aren't capable of living with what they want. That we get frightened, and look for some guiding source of authority to lead with a strong hand. Welcome to 'why religion exists in the first place'. Yeah. Most people will always look for someone to tell them what to do when things get tough. Things get scary, they don't know what to do, they look for someone who seems like they do, and hope for the best. Even if that person is just as scared and clueless as they are. Sorry, Aria. You're normal on that one.
Loai Qerl Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 293	Posted - 2017.05.09 21:14:34 - [162] - Quote People are all the time saying I am short. I'm NOT short.
Morgana Tsukiyo Samsara Dynamics 178	Posted - 2017.05.09 21:25:24 - [163] - Quote Loai Qerl wrote: People are all the time saying I am short. I'm NOT short. Petit Join Project Transcendence. Applied technology for the enhancement of human experience.
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 244	Posted - 2017.05.09 21:32:58 - [164] - Quote Loai Qerl wrote: People are all the time saying I am short. I'm NOT short. You are perfectly Lorl sized, neither too much nor too little.
Aria Jenneth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 3793	Posted - 2017.05.09 22:44:34 - [165] - Quote Arrendis wrote: I'd also say that systemic loss of life, liberty, et al in the service of the goal of 'more humans living closer together' isn't exactly an endorsement of the systemic loss of life etc. It's more a reflection of the basic nature of Man as a social animal. When those losses of life happen, they're not about 'we want to live with you guys so we will kill you until you let us'. They're about 'we want what you have, so we can make more of us. And if you let us make you into us, we won't kill your men and make brood-mares of your women'. It's not exactly a civilized goal. Conflict like thatGÇöwarGÇöis actually a failure of civilization. You have two societies coming into conflict because neither one recognizes members of the other society as 'us', and thus part of the protected group. To call that something in service of the larger goal of society (the abstract, as opposed to the dominance goal of a specific society) is rather like saying that killing all human beings is a great way to eliminate sickness and reduce ihfant mortality, in the long run. Sure, if everyone's dead, nobody's getting sick, and no babies die if no babies are born... but I'm not sure it really serves the spirit of your goal. It's a failing, sure. The whole point of the process is to try to reduce this sort of thing. It's also not something anyone's found a cure for. War as a regular thing on pretty much any level above village-scale is a default condition. Peace, lasting peace, among neighbors, now, that's an achievement. It's often been bought at the cost of a lot of bloodshed, not all of it in war. Quote: Welcome to 'why religion exists in the first place'. Yeah. Most people will always look for someone to tell them what to do when things get tough. Things get scary, they don't know what to do, they look for someone who seems like they do, and hope for the best. Even if that person is just as scared and clueless as they are. Sorry, Aria. You're normal on that one. There's religion and religion, Arrendis. There are a few that aren't actually big on telling people what to do.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3503	Posted - 2017.05.09 22:53:23 - [166] - Quote Aria Jenneth wrote: There's religion and religion, Arrendis. There are a few that aren't actually big on telling people what to do. There's religion, and there spirituality. What makes a religion a religion is the organized structure of beliefs that, yeah, pretty much universally say 'this is bad, that is good'.
Aria Jenneth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 3793	Posted - 2017.05.09 22:58:42 - [167] - Quote Arrendis wrote: There's religion, and there spirituality. What makes a religion a religion is the organized structure of beliefs that, yeah, pretty much universally say 'this is bad, that is good'. Somewhat, sure. But you might find us Achura a little strange this way....
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3504	Posted - 2017.05.09 23:14:24 - [168] - Quote Or I might find that what you're calling a religion is more accuratedly called a spiritual philosophy.
Aria Jenneth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 3793	Posted - 2017.05.09 23:22:29 - [169] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Or I might find that what you're calling a religion is more accuratedly called a spiritual philosophy. I'm pretty sure I won't take offense if you decide to find a word for it that doesn't offend you.
Tyrel Toov Non-Hostile Target 998	Posted - 2017.05.10 03:10:35 - [170] - Quote Loai Qerl wrote: People are all the time saying I am short. I'm NOT short. "Fun sized" I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.

Loai Qerl Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 293	Posted - 2017.05.10 03:35:51 - [171] - Quote Morgana Tsukiyo wrote: Petit Tyrel "Yes I Would Like A Proper Drubbing But Please No Actual Shirts" Toov wrote: "Fun sized" I am slightly above average height. Just a little bit. You can BOTH go chew sand. No sand for Halcyon though, who is nice.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3507	Posted - 2017.05.10 04:44:51 - [172] - Quote Generally... and I'm not pointing fingers at anyone here... but just in general, I've found that the only people who need to make sure people know they're above-average height... ... are the short folks. Most of us just don't worry about it.
Valerie Valate Church of The Crimson Saviour Sani-Sabik 2158	Posted - 2017.05.10 04:58:18 - [173] - Quote Standing at 1.58m tall, I am a physical colossus, towering over others in the physical realm. Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Aria Jenneth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 3799	Posted - 2017.05.10 05:19:57 - [174] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Generally... and I'm not pointing fingers at anyone here... but just in general, I've found that the only people who need to make sure people know they're above-average height... ... are the short folks. Most of us just don't worry about it. Uh. While that might be true, Arrendis, Ms. Qerl is someone I physically look up to, a fair distance. Not a lot more than most people, but, she's not at, below, or near my height.
Merchant Rova Ishukone-Raata Technological Research Institute Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 309	Posted - 2017.05.10 05:25:21 - [175] - Quote It still annoys me that, while I'm taller than most capsuleers, DUSTers will almost always be taller than me.
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 244	Posted - 2017.05.10 07:31:14 - [176] - Quote I'm sure that can be dealt with, but there is only so much space in a pod
Mizhir TURN LEFT HYDRA RELOADED 75211	Posted - 2017.05.10 09:31:17 - [177] - Quote Valerie Valate wrote: Standing at 1.58m tall, I am a physical colossus, towering over others in the physical realm. I am 21cm taller than you. If you are a physical colossus what am I then? Death rides a fast C4mel
Morgana Tsukiyo Samsara Dynamics 181	Posted - 2017.05.10 10:48:43 - [178] - Quote And now they are comparing sizes among themselves. Writes it down Its not about size people, its the way it performs and fits. Join Project Transcendence. Applied technology for the enhancement of human experience.
Mizhir TURN LEFT HYDRA RELOADED 75212	Posted - 2017.05.10 10:51:47 - [179] - Quote Morgana Tsukiyo wrote: Its not about size people, its the way it performs and fits. I fit perfectly fine into my capsule and would consider my performance quite formidable as well. Death rides a fast C4mel
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 245	Posted - 2017.05.10 11:20:56 - [180] - Quote Morgana Tsukiyo wrote: And now they are comparing sizes among themselves. Writes it down Its not about size people, its the way it performs and fits. The way what performs and fits? Aren't capsules manufactured to standard?

Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 247	Posted - 2017.05.10 13:34:31 - [181] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: Don't listen to this negativity. It's the worst kept secret of the Matari that Elsebeth doth protest too much but then just squees and titters when hugged without warning or permission. Especially by Imperials. I wholeheartedly recommend trying it out. If I don't live in the Empire and delightfully-haired chaps such as Aldrith and his fellows use words like "Apostate" to describe me...am I still an Imperial?
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3513	Posted - 2017.05.10 13:34:36 - [182] - Quote Morgana Tsukiyo wrote: Are you trying to condense 99% of the IGS communication in a single place? No, that's here.
Mizhara Del'thul Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 1648	Posted - 2017.05.10 14:33:09 - [183] - Quote Wasn't referring to you in particular, Ember. I wholeheartedly recommend everyone, especially Imperials, to apply the cuddliest of hugs to Elsebeth.
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 248	Posted - 2017.05.10 14:41:13 - [184] - Quote Maybe that can be the theme of my next party, do you have any recommendations for military units that specialise in hostile extractions?
Ayallah Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 913	Posted - 2017.05.10 14:55:04 - [185] - Quote Halcyon Ember wrote: Maybe that can be the theme of my next party, do you have any recommendations for military units that specialise in hostile extractions? The Imperium. As strength goes.
Mizhara Del'thul Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 1648	Posted - 2017.05.10 15:01:22 - [186] - Quote I don't think she meant specializing in botched extractions. As for actual professionals, I suspect the Network's wetwork operatives prefer to remain anonymous.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3513	Posted - 2017.05.10 15:10:26 - [187] - Quote And yet you give me crap for being 'petty', Miz. How droll.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3538	Posted - 2017.05.11 15:59:38 - [188] - Quote Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote: Arrendis wrote: I WILL SEE THE MAKERS OF (Insert Produce Here) BROUGHT TO THEIR KNEES FOR THEIR CRIMES! (Insert Product Here) IS AN OFFENSE AND A TRAVESTY TO ALL RIGHT=THINKING PEOPLE IN THE CLUSTER!!! Just out of curiosity, exactly how many right thinking people do you think there are in the cluster? That was idle threats, this is off-topic... which your question is, for idle threats. And the answer is: statistically speaking, 1 in 9 people are left-handed, and since each half of the brain vaguely controls the opposite side of the body (not quite that simple, I know)... I'm gonna say 1 person in 9 is in their right mind.
Valerie Valate Church of The Crimson Saviour Sani-Sabik 2169	Posted - 2017.05.11 16:35:46 - [189] - Quote Mizhir wrote: Valerie Valate wrote: Standing at 1.58m tall, I am a physical colossus, towering over others in the physical realm. I am 21cm taller than you. If you are a physical colossus what am I then? Minmatar. Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3566	Posted - 2017.05.13 13:41:56 - [190] - Quote Teinyhr wrote: I've recently noted that you seem to be one of those people who use a lot of words to say nothing at all. Actually, she tends to use a lot of words improperly to say very little, and when it's pointed out, attempts obfuscation. Think of her as a verbal octopus, changing colors and textures, and then jetting away in a cloud of ink.

Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 265	Posted - 2017.05.13 14:04:45 - [191] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Teinyhr wrote: I've recently noted that you seem to be one of those people who use a lot of words to say nothing at all. Actually, she tends to use a lot of words improperly to say very little, and when it's pointed out, attempts obfuscation. Think of her as a verbal octopus, changing colors and textures, and then jetting away in a cloud of ink. I like to use as few words as possible. I've been mocked for this in the past by certain edgier members of the community, but I personally find no value in obscuring intent behind a wall of prose.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3566	Posted - 2017.05.13 14:10:34 - [192] - Quote Halcyon Ember wrote: I like to use as few words as possible. I've been mocked for this in the past by certain edgier members of the community, but I personally find no value in obscuring intent behind a wall of prose. With me, it's a war between brevity, and striving for clarity. Brevity loses, a lot.
Aria Jenneth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 3824	Posted - 2017.05.13 15:05:17 - [193] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Halcyon Ember wrote: I like to use as few words as possible. I've been mocked for this in the past by certain edgier members of the community, but I personally find no value in obscuring intent behind a wall of prose. With me, it's a war between brevity, and striving for clarity. Brevity loses, a lot. Some things it's really hard to explain well enough, though. Riddles, proverbs, and poetry have some very real uses.
Morgana Tsukiyo Samsara Dynamics 192	Posted - 2017.05.13 15:42:51 - [194] - Quote Aria Jenneth wrote: ... it's also possible to either use such devices maliciously or forget to stay grounded and get lost (an expression of mental illness, maybe). My sad impression of this person is that she uses our spiritual beliefs and practices, without empathy or self-awareness, as a source of excuses to do as she pleases. No need for excuses, this vessel merely manifests it-¦s will and shapes the universe when it does. Empathy means an emotional connection that your training should have taught you, is an artifical context that gives structure to your ego. Out of curiosity, what was your training like? Lot-¦s of meditation, mantras, homage to ancestors and a list of rights and wrongs. Honor, duty, "do this", "don-¦t do that"? Join Project Transcendence. Applied technology for the enhancement of human experience.
Aria Jenneth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 3824	Posted - 2017.05.13 16:01:48 - [195] - Quote Morgana Tsukiyo wrote: No need for excuses, this vessel merely manifests it-¦s will and shapes the universe when it does. Empathy means an emotional connection that your training should have taught you, is an artifical context that gives structure to your ego. Out of curiosity, what was your training like? Lot-¦s of meditation, mantras, homage to ancestors and a list of rights and wrongs. Honor, duty, "do this", "don-¦t do that"? I don't remember what it was like anymore. But there are indeed duties that come with being human, Ms. Tsukiyo: humility, curiosity, moderation, compassion. Just because a thing isn't "real" doesn't make it unimportant. A creature like you, blundering through the Totality without a care for others, will leave a tear of misery and shattered lives. You see yourself as enlightened. I think you are lost, like my predecessor before you. Her error at least had some nuance to it, though. I can't complain about your curiosity, at least.
Morgana Tsukiyo Samsara Dynamics 192	Posted - 2017.05.13 16:17:50 - [196] - Quote Aria Jenneth wrote: I don't remember what it was like anymore. But there are indeed duties that come with being human, Ms. Tsukiyo: humility, curiosity, moderation, compassion. Just because a thing isn't "real" doesn't make it unimportant. A creature like you, blundering through the Totality without a care for others, will leave a tear of misery and shattered lives. You see yourself as enlightened. I think you are lost, like my predecessor before you. Her error at least had some nuance to it, though. I can't complain about your curiosity, at least. Then you may coinsider returning to your teacher so you can remember a few things such as "the finger is not special, is not necessary and means nothing". Specially pre-conceptions like "duty" and other a priori assumptions. The Totality does not care for such things. Did i ever say it wasn-¦t important? Again the assumptions! I-¦m inviting people to join the experience of integration in the totality in a way that is free and available to everyone. A gamechanger that will blow the game table away. Does it mean that there will be a trail of misery and shattered lives? Well, if you consider that the sand doll "died", you may think this way. But you out of most people here should know what im talking about. Not only i never said that i was enlightened, but i wouldn-¦t recomend it to anyone. Drawing trees and birds on your cage doesn-¦t mean you-¦re free. And freedom only means something in a context of prision. Just because we-¦re one step further than the Sleepers, doesn-¦t mean we don-¦t have to walk anymore. Join Project Transcendence. Applied technology for the enhancement of human experience.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3568	Posted - 2017.05.13 16:28:56 - [197] - Quote Morgana Tsukiyo wrote: Then you may coinsider returning to your teacher so you can remember a few things such as "the finger is not special, is not necessary and means nothing". Specially pre-conceptions like "duty" and other a priori assumptions. The Totality does not care for such things. Did i ever say it wasn-¦t important? While you're calling out "assumptions", you might want to notice that in fact, you've just directly answered your own question. Yes. You've said 'it'GÇöevery it, every potential "it"GÇöisn't important. Right before you asked. Soooo... I think I'm gonna trust Aria's 'assumptions' over your self-contradiction.
Loai Qerl Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 296	Posted - 2017.05.13 16:34:34 - [198] - Quote Ooo, though. Surely you knew that contradictions and assumptions and all other things, even sandwiches, will all disappear into something much more important once we are all an icky brain-jellyfish and transcend to something-or-other? Because it WILL. And then we can start having important brain jellyfish feelings.
Aria Jenneth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 3824	Posted - 2017.05.13 16:39:10 - [199] - Quote Morgana Tsukiyo wrote: Aria Jenneth wrote: I don't remember what it was like anymore. But there are indeed duties that come with being human, Ms. Tsukiyo: humility, curiosity, moderation, compassion. Just because a thing isn't "real" doesn't make it unimportant. A creature like you, blundering through the Totality without a care for others, will leave a tear of misery and shattered lives. You see yourself as enlightened. I think you are lost, like my predecessor before you. Her error at least had some nuance to it, though. I can't complain about your curiosity, at least. Then you may coinsider returning to your teacher so you can remember a few things such as "the finger is not special, is not necessary and means nothing". Specially pre-conceptions like "duty" and other a priori assumptions. The Totality does not care for such things. Did i ever say it wasn-¦t important? Again the assumptions! I-¦m inviting people to join the experience of integration in the totality in a way that is free and available to everyone. A gamechanger that will blow the game table away. Does it mean that there will be a trail of misery and shattered lives? Well, if you consider that the sand doll "died", you may think this way. But you out of most people here should know what im talking about. Not only i never said that i was enlightened, but i wouldn-¦t recomend it to anyone. Drawing trees and birds on your cage doesn-¦t mean you-¦re free. And freedom only means something in a context of prision. Just because we-¦re one step further than the Sleepers, doesn-¦t mean we don-¦t have to walk anymore. Defensiveness and rationalization. Doctrine provided without understanding, in service to self. Ink: Arrendis's metaphor is apt. You're a false teacher, Morgan Tsukiyo. You remember the most ephemeral and far-flung insights of an Achur monk, but pursue them wildly without remembering what grounds us, the origins of our our connection and responsibility to the lay Achura, why monks are trusted to lead. At best, you're lost in the sky. At worst.... It's fortunate your foolishness is as obvious as it is.
Morgana Tsukiyo Samsara Dynamics 192	Posted - 2017.05.13 16:41:04 - [200] - Quote Arrendis wrote: While you're calling out "assumptions", you might want to notice that in fact, you've just directly answered your own question. Yes. You've said 'it'GÇöevery it, every potential "it"GÇöisn't important. Right before you asked. Soooo... I think I'm gonna trust Aria's 'assumptions' over your self-contradiction. What was never had cannot be lost. Join Project Transcendence. Applied technology for the enhancement of human experience.

Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 265	Posted - 2017.05.13 16:42:38 - [201] - Quote Loai Qerl wrote: Ooo, though. Surely you knew that contradictions and assumptions and all other things, even sandwiches, will all disappear into something much more important once we are all an icky brain-jellyfish and transcend to something-or-other? Because it WILL. And then we can start having important brain jellyfish feelings. But I like sandwiches
Morgana Tsukiyo Samsara Dynamics 192	Posted - 2017.05.13 16:44:40 - [202] - Quote Loai Qerl wrote: Ooo, though. Surely you knew that contradictions and assumptions and all other things, even sandwiches, will all disappear into something much more important once we are all an icky brain-jellyfish and transcend to something-or-other? Because it WILL. And then we can start having important brain jellyfish feelings. If you remove the "And then we can start having important brain jellyfish feelings.", that is a good summary. Join Project Transcendence. Applied technology for the enhancement of human experience.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3569	Posted - 2017.05.13 17:02:42 - [203] - Quote Morgana Tsukiyo wrote: What was never had cannot be lost. A good summary of your marbles, yes.
Loai Qerl Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 297	Posted - 2017.05.13 17:57:51 - [204] - Quote Morgana Tsukiyo wrote: Loai Qerl wrote: Ooo, though. Surely you knew that contradictions and assumptions and all other things, even sandwiches, will all disappear into something much more important once we are all an icky brain-jellyfish and transcend to something-or-other? Because it WILL. And then we can start having important brain jellyfish feelings. If you remove the "And then we can start having important brain jellyfish feelings.", that is a good summary. That is the most important part of the summary, don't be ridiculous. ONLY brain jellyfish can have important feelings, and you have been saying this all along. Everything else? Not important. Must become jellyfish first. Only jellyfish things matter.
Makoto Priano Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Arataka Research Consortium 9778	Posted - 2017.05.13 18:39:03 - [205] - Quote And this, folks, is how the Jove happened. Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Morgana Tsukiyo Samsara Dynamics 193	Posted - 2017.05.13 19:39:39 - [206] - Quote Loai Qerl wrote: That is the most important part of the summary, don't be ridiculous. ONLY brain jellyfish can have important feelings, and you have been saying this all along. Everything else? Not important. Must become jellyfish first. Only jellyfish things matter. So close, no matter how far. Join Project Transcendence. Applied technology for the enhancement of human experience.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3573	Posted - 2017.05.13 20:04:00 - [207] - Quote Morgana Tsukiyo wrote: Loai Qerl wrote: That is the most important part of the summary, don't be ridiculous. ONLY brain jellyfish can have important feelings, and you have been saying this all along. Everything else? Not important. Must become jellyfish first. Only jellyfish things matter. So close, no matter how far. Yeah, but let's face it: your opinion's not important. You said so.
Morgana Tsukiyo Samsara Dynamics 195	Posted - 2017.05.13 21:34:23 - [208] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Morgana Tsukiyo wrote: Loai Qerl wrote: That is the most important part of the summary, don't be ridiculous. ONLY brain jellyfish can have important feelings, and you have been saying this all along. Everything else? Not important. Must become jellyfish first. Only jellyfish things matter. So close, no matter how far. Yeah, but let's face it: your opinion's not important. You said so. Exactly! At least something got through. Join Project Transcendence. Applied technology for the enhancement of human experience.
Che Biko Alexylva Paradox 954	Posted - 2017.05.14 12:15:15 - [209] - Quote Miss Jenneth, I have always found it interesting that while my beliefs are similar to Miss Tsukiyo's and yours and your predecessor's, I've also found some things in how you think that I consider a little contradictory, and where I'm actually a little surprised you are not more like me and Miss Tsukiyo. Coordination Channel for Consolidated Space Rescue Cooperation Open Letter to the Aidonis Foundation Directorate
Aria Jenneth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 3834	Posted - 2017.05.14 14:48:25 - [210] - Quote Che Biko wrote: Miss Jenneth, I have always found it interesting that while my beliefs are similar to Miss Tsukiyo's and yours and your predecessor's, I've also found some things in how you think that I consider a little contradictory, and where I'm actually a little surprised you are not more like me and Miss Tsukiyo. Details are maybe helpful, Che? (And I'm a little surprised you think you think like Ms. Tsukiyo. She's basically the quintessential Achur as seen through the eyes of Nicoletta Mithra-- which is not, on this subject, a friendly pair of eyes.)

Morgana Tsukiyo Samsara Dynamics 196	Posted - 2017.05.14 15:34:24 - [211] - Quote Aria Jenneth wrote: (...)She's basically the quintessential Achur as seen through the eyes of Nicoletta Mithra-- which is not, on this subject, a friendly pair of eyes.) You pick someone that believes in some sort of deity as a reference in "spiritual" matters? If you meet god on the road, kill it. Join Project Transcendence. Applied technology for the enhancement of human experience.
Aria Jenneth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 3834	Posted - 2017.05.14 15:43:27 - [212] - Quote Morgana Tsukiyo wrote: Aria Jenneth wrote: (...)She's basically the quintessential Achur as seen through the eyes of Nicoletta Mithra-- which is not, on this subject, a friendly pair of eyes.) You pick someone that believes in some sort of deity as a reference in "spiritual" matters? If you meet god on the road, kill it. You misunderstand, Ms. Tsukiyo. I'm saying you're an Achur as imagined by someone who doesn't understand us very well or like us very much.
Morgana Tsukiyo Samsara Dynamics 196	Posted - 2017.05.14 15:50:40 - [213] - Quote Aria Jenneth wrote: You misunderstand, Ms. Tsukiyo. I'm saying you're an Achur as imagined by someone who doesn't understand us very well or like us very much. She is a doctor in theology, how would she earn that degree without compared mythology and some sort of insight on the structure of our paths and the other factions? If she holds little steem for our kind, it-¦s due to prejudice and her cup being full of other stuff, not for lack of understanding. Join Project Transcendence. Applied technology for the enhancement of human experience.
Jade Blackwind 1302	Posted - 2017.05.14 16:52:01 - [214] - Quote Makoto Priano wrote: And this, folks, is how the Jove happened. Can't be bumped up hard enough. But... If we'll have fun being the Jove 2.0, why not? Eveyone dies. The Jove died. We'll die one day. Yes, and you'll die, too, and you there. So why not? Live, explore, feel pain, feel joy, while you still can. Life is precious, every drop of it.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3592	Posted - 2017.05.14 17:00:51 - [215] - Quote Morgana Tsukiyo wrote: You pick someone that believes in some sort of deity as a reference in "spiritual" matters? If you meet god on the road, kill it. Morgana Tsukiyo wrote: She is a doctor in theology, how would she earn that degree without compared mythology and some sort of insight on the structure of our paths and the other factions? So, is she someone who's unqualified, or someone who's an authority? You can't have it both ways.
Morgana Tsukiyo Samsara Dynamics 196	Posted - 2017.05.14 17:27:32 - [216] - Quote Arrendis wrote: So, is she someone who's unqualified, or someone who's an authority? You can't have it both ways. Of course you can have both. As a "spiritual" reference, believing in some sort of god is an way of either dodging responsibility for your choices or some sort of hope that you have "time" or a "place" to enjoy afterwards, and at least the methodology that i follow means burning away the un-truth to see what is left after the fire, as many Achura, in one way or another, follow. Is a travel inwards, so no need for cosmic daddy issues. In a inward perspective, she is unqualified as a reference. As someone with a doctorate in theology, compared mythology is a common discipline throughout the course, so differently from a person that was never exposed to other religions/beliefs/rituals/spiritualism/methodology, she most likely learned something about Achura ways. She will probably not be an ignorant on our practices. So, she has an academic title that represents authority on lack of ignorance on a certain subject, case in point, our practices. However, to know and to understand are two different things. You can describe the colours of the different nebula of our known universe as accurately as possible, but to a blind person it won-¦t mean much in terms of experience, even is fhe may repeat the description and repeat it with authority. And that is why i-¦m inviting everyone to experience something that can not be explained through words alone. So all of you can understand. And then do what you wish with it. Join Project Transcendence. Applied technology for the enhancement of human experience.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3595	Posted - 2017.05.14 19:30:46 - [217] - Quote Morgana Tsukiyo wrote: Arrendis wrote: So, is she someone who's unqualified, or someone who's an authority? You can't have it both ways. Of course you can have both No, you categorically cannot. You first object to her being used as a reference based on the assertion that as an outsider, she's incapable of understanding and so unqualitied to judge. You even go so far as to put 'spirituality' in scare quotes as a means of showing that as someone who believe in a deity, she cannot possibly understand. Then immediately, you turn around and claim that because she's a Doctor of Theology[1], she must have a solid understanding of all sorts of spiritual belief systems and so of course she's a qualified authority to cite in this case. The two statements directly refute one another. They are mutually exclusive. That means if 1, then !2. Always. The rest of your responsie is just more obfuscation and attempting to weasel around the fact that you just tried to claim that A and !A are simultaneously true on macroscopic scale. Someone's qualification to form opinions of someone else's beliefs, for the record, are not subject to the Quantum Uncertainty Principle. 1. This, mind you, doesn't mean anything beyond her qualifications as it pertains to Amarr theology. As a result, an Amarr Doctor of Theology isn't actually guaranteed to know a damned thing about Achurrian believes. That would likely be the field of Comparative Folklore, Mythology, or Anthropology, within the Empire.
Valerie Valate Church of The Crimson Saviour Sani-Sabik 2177	Posted - 2017.05.14 19:36:01 - [218] - Quote Arrendis wrote: That would likely be the field of Comparative Folklore, Mythology, or Anthropology, within the Empire. Implying those are fields with any prestige. my sides ! Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 268	Posted - 2017.05.14 19:42:32 - [219] - Quote Valerie Valate wrote: Arrendis wrote: That would likely be the field of Comparative Folklore, Mythology, or Anthropology, within the Empire. Implying those are fields with any prestige. my sides ! You should run until you get a stitch
Morgana Tsukiyo Samsara Dynamics 196	Posted - 2017.05.14 21:11:19 - [220] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Stuff Read again. Compare what you read with your answer. Join Project Transcendence. Applied technology for the enhancement of human experience.

Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3597	Posted - 2017.05.14 21:16:48 - [221] - Quote Morgana Tsukiyo wrote: Compare what you read with your answer. Why? You tell us whatever you wrote wasn't important. And your reply won't be, either. And even without that, nothing you said has any bearing at all on whether or not you can credibly claim A & !A simultaneously.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3597	Posted - 2017.05.14 21:17:37 - [222] - Quote Valerie Valate wrote: Arrendis wrote: That would likely be the field of Comparative Folklore, Mythology, or Anthropology, within the Empire. Implying those are fields with any prestige. Actually, just the opposite: the Amarr don't give a damn about anyone else's mythology.
Che Biko Alexylva Paradox 954	Posted - 2017.05.15 11:46:48 - [223] - Quote Aria Jenneth wrote: Details are maybe helpful, Che? Hard time remembering little details, but one I'll give a bigger example: I guess it basically boils down to why you think Nation is a bad thing, and I do not. Even if we both practice and are motivated by empathy, curiosity, moderation, compassion and humility. I don't see why it is so important to preserve our current culture and humanity. Yet, you are attached to it. Coordination Channel for Consolidated Space Rescue Cooperation Open Letter to the Aidonis Foundation Directorate
Che Biko Alexylva Paradox 954	Posted - 2017.05.15 11:56:15 - [224] - Quote I'll be remembering in the Gariushi Lounge at the Ishukone HQ in Malkalen tonight. If anyone cares to join me, contact me. Peace. Coordination Channel for Consolidated Space Rescue Cooperation Open Letter to the Aidonis Foundation Directorate
Aria Jenneth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 3837	Posted - 2017.05.15 15:54:15 - [225] - Quote Che Biko wrote: Aria Jenneth wrote: Details are maybe helpful, Che? Hard time remembering little details, but one I'll give a bigger example: I guess it basically boils down to why you think Nation is a bad thing, and I do not. Even if we both practice and are motivated by empathy, curiosity, moderation, compassion and humility. I don't see why it is so important to preserve our current culture and humanity. Yet, you are attached to it. ... of all things, that? Che, you might remember that the background reason for believing in such modest virtues is the belief that extremes lead to disruption and harm. Sansha's Nation is pretty extreme. A human being is a complicated creature, and to date basically every society seeking to channel and control it has done business with the human animal. Our clones remain anthropomorphic; our cybernetics broadly seek to imitate and replace, rather than fundamentally alter. Even capsuleers, who effectively take ships for bodies, mostly do so only temporarily. It's a fascinating blurring of lines, but we've kept the ability to step back. We expand our perceptions and mental abilities, but retain essentially the same structure to our minds. That's true even of illegal upload entities: they still function like human minds. That's the point. The Nation experiment crosses that line, and crosses it more or less irrevocably. It butchers the human animal, and uses it for parts to create something else. If it were a god or some similarly trustworthy being doing such things, I might still be disturbed but I might not be strongly opposed. But, it's a human. Sansha Kuvakei was a human being. Humans, especially humans in love with their own cleverness, make HORRIBLE mistakes. Sansha's Nation is an act of arrogance. That would be true even if it didn't proactively go out hunting down more raw material to be butchered and used to build its alleged utopia. If "Master" Kuvakei had just wanted to just continue his experiment in peace, he could have left New Eden and pursued his work in a new place, far away. Instead, he re-declared war on us all. His minions claim "there is no death in Nation." I really hope that's just propaganda, because it sounds to me like Sansha Kuvakei has built something I don't otherwise believe in at all: a Hell, a miserable, broken state in which his victims exist indefinitely, forever barred from expressing their anguish or even acting out. So, yeah. Very seriously, if I'm ever about to be captured by Nation, I'd take it as a kindness if you could please shoot me in the head.
Morgana Tsukiyo Samsara Dynamics 197	Posted - 2017.05.15 17:14:23 - [226] - Quote Aria Jenneth wrote: A human being is a complicated creature, and to date basically every society seeking to channel and control it has done business with the human animal. Our clones remain anthropomorphic; our cybernetics broadly seek to imitate and replace, rather than fundamentally alter. Even capsuleers, who effectively take ships for bodies, mostly do so only temporarily. It's a fascinating blurring of lines, but we've kept the ability to step back. We expand our perceptions and mental abilities, but retain essentially the same structure to our minds. Fear, always the fear. They know there is a door, they know you can cross it, but they are afraid to do it, so they spend their time in a perpetual figment because an illusion is preferable to whatever is behind that door. As long as this illusion is safe, the defense mechanisms are quite simple. Once a real threat show up however, that-¦s when we see it-¦s full power..... What a beautiful sight. Join Project Transcendence. Applied technology for the enhancement of human experience.
Aria Jenneth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 3839	Posted - 2017.05.15 18:23:11 - [227] - Quote Morgana Tsukiyo wrote: Aria Jenneth wrote: A human being is a complicated creature, and to date basically every society seeking to channel and control it has done business with the human animal. Our clones remain anthropomorphic; our cybernetics broadly seek to imitate and replace, rather than fundamentally alter. Even capsuleers, who effectively take ships for bodies, mostly do so only temporarily. It's a fascinating blurring of lines, but we've kept the ability to step back. We expand our perceptions and mental abilities, but retain essentially the same structure to our minds. Fear, always the fear. They know there is a door, they know you can cross it, but they are afraid to do it, so they spend their time in a perpetual figment because an illusion is preferable to whatever is behind that door. As long as this illusion is safe, the defense mechanisms are quite simple. Once a real threat show up however, that-¦s when we see it-¦s full power..... What a beautiful sight. Of course, the fear. Fear's a natural response to stuff that's dangerous to us. The bit about cosmic perspective you don't seem to understand, Ms. Tsukiyo, is that just because a perspective is subjective and illusory doesn't make it weightless. A human being who attains the kind of insight you claim to possess, and consequently understands that it's really all the same whether they keep themselves fed or not, and therefore slowly starves to death, is not playing a human being's role very well. This will create suffering: their own, that of those who care for them, that of others who are inspired by them. Illusions are to be seen and understood for what they are, not to be cast aside just because they are illusions. The ones that are hardest to pierce are hard precisely because they're navigational aids for an organism that is designed to try to stay alive and functional. A human who doesn't have at least some fear doesn't usually make a very good human.
Valerie Valate Church of The Crimson Saviour Sani-Sabik 2178	Posted - 2017.05.15 19:07:54 - [228] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Valerie Valate wrote: Arrendis wrote: That would likely be the field of Comparative Folklore, Mythology, or Anthropology, within the Empire. Implying those are fields with any prestige. Actually, just the opposite: the Amarr don't give a damn about anyone else's mythology. Well, yes, quite. That's my point. If you are Amarr, and say you studied Comparative Folklore at university, you might as well be saying that you went to the School of Hard Knocks, and the University of Life, in terms of the amount of academic prestige such a qualification holds. Really, the only people who study comparative folklore, would be certain members of the Inquisitorial divisions of the Theology Council, so that they can determine things like the exact kind of blasphemy that someone should be charged with. Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3625	Posted - 2017.05.16 02:46:24 - [229] - Quote Morgana Tsukiyo wrote: Arrendis wrote: Shut. The feck. Up. You're a pair of deranged nutjobs spewing fedo-feces that amounts to nothing. Those new glasses are a good metaphor for your behaviour. How to shield your sight from what couldn-¦t be more clear and simple. They're not new. But don't worry, I don't expect you to have a clue.
Ashlar Vellum Esquire Armaments 416	Posted - 2017.05.16 14:19:03 - [230] - Quote Aria Jenneth wrote: Sansha's Nation is an act of arrogance. That would be true even if it didn't proactively go out hunting down more raw material to be butchered and used to build its alleged utopia. If "Master" Kuvakei had just wanted to just continue his experiment in peace, he could have left New Eden and pursued his work in a new place, far away. Instead, he re-declared war on us all. It is more of desperation than arrogance. Arrogance come from overestimation, desperation come from lack of choice. You can not build "your utopia" if there is a raw material shortage, incursions are targeting exactly that to my knowledge - raw materials for True Slaves creation. So it's not a question of want but a question of necessity or need, peace or far away is not an option there.

Aria Jenneth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 3845	Posted - 2017.05.16 14:31:03 - [231] - Quote Ashlar Vellum wrote: Aria Jenneth wrote: Sansha's Nation is an act of arrogance. That would be true even if it didn't proactively go out hunting down more raw material to be butchered and used to build its alleged utopia. If "Master" Kuvakei had just wanted to just continue his experiment in peace, he could have left New Eden and pursued his work in a new place, far away. Instead, he re-declared war on us all. It is more of desperation than arrogance. Arrogance come from overestimation, desperation come from lack of choice. You can not build "your utopia" if there is a raw material shortage, incursions are targeting exactly that to my knowledge - raw materials for True Slaves creation. So it's not a question of want but a question of necessity or need, peace or far away is not an option there. The arrogance I meant is more the arrogance at its root, sir: humanity, revised and edited by another human's incautious hand. Many of Nation's followers speak of Kuvakei as though he were a god. But he's not qualified for such a position in this world, any more than we are.
Mizhara Del'thul Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 1690	Posted - 2017.05.16 14:42:36 - [232] - Quote Well, as pretty much every notion of 'God' comes from Humanity anyway... Every quality every God we ever invented holds, came ultimately from us. Every virtue and flaw, every intent - good or bad - and every little thing to aspire to or reject came from a human mind. So in the end, humanity certainly does qualify for the position. We inhabit every single characteristic of the Gods we've invented by virtue of inventing them in the first place. As ****** up as our species is, the other side of the coin is that we are - to our current knowledge - unique in the galaxy in that respect. We have through inventing these Gods proven ourselves capable of that state of divinity, even if we've never successfully done it. Yet.
Ashlar Vellum Esquire Armaments 416	Posted - 2017.05.16 18:15:11 - [233] - Quote Aria Jenneth wrote: Ashlar Vellum wrote: Aria Jenneth wrote: Sansha's Nation is an act of arrogance. That would be true even if it didn't proactively go out hunting down more raw material to be butchered and used to build its alleged utopia. If "Master" Kuvakei had just wanted to just continue his experiment in peace, he could have left New Eden and pursued his work in a new place, far away. Instead, he re-declared war on us all. It is more of desperation than arrogance. Arrogance come from overestimation, desperation come from lack of choice. You can not build "your utopia" if there is a raw material shortage, incursions are targeting exactly that to my knowledge - raw materials for True Slaves creation. So it's not a question of want but a question of necessity or need, peace or far away is not an option there. The arrogance I meant is more the arrogance at its root, sir: humanity, revised and edited by another human's incautious hand. Many of Nation's followers speak of Kuvakei as though he were a god. But he's not qualified for such a position in this world, any more than we are. True, at the same time he was and probably is (if he is still alive of course) a remarkable man, definitely not equal to everyone. Mizhara Del'thul wrote: As ****** up as our species is, the other side of the coin is that we are - to our current knowledge - unique in the galaxy in that respect. We have through inventing these Gods proven ourselves capable of that state of divinity, even if we've never successfully done it. How can you prove the capability without successfully doing so?
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 289	Posted - 2017.05.17 08:37:59 - [234] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Aria Jenneth wrote: Besides, you're trying to herd cats. Kinda my day job, you know? I keep all of my cats in one room, until a member of staff decides they're too cute and takes one home. Then I have to get more.
Che Biko Alexylva Paradox 968	Posted - 2017.05.17 12:20:46 - [235] - Quote Mizhir wrote: Halcyon Ember wrote: Che Biko wrote: You know what I admire about you. Is it the legs? I think it is more than the legs. However this is not the right place to provide details. It is more than the legs. Edit: However, this therad is also not the right place to provide details. Coordination Channel for Consolidated Space Rescue Cooperation Open Letter to the Aidonis Foundation Directorate
Mizhir TURN LEFT HYDRA RELOADED 75252	Posted - 2017.05.17 12:26:04 - [236] - Quote Che Biko wrote: Mizhir wrote: Halcyon Ember wrote: Che Biko wrote: You know what I admire about you. Is it the legs? I think it is more than the legs. However this is not the right place to provide details. It is more than the legs. Edit: However, this therad is also not the right place to provide details. Haha. Maybe you will have to provide the details in person one day then. Death rides a fast C4mel
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3649	Posted - 2017.05.17 12:44:57 - [237] - Quote Halcyon Ember wrote: I keep all of my cats in one room, until a member of staff decides they're too cute and takes one home. Then I have to get more. I keep mine in Delve. And I tell them to shut the feck up and stop sperging up comms.
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 910	Posted - 2017.05.17 12:52:27 - [238] - Quote The mythology back home has it that when someone dies violently (suicide counts), they have the option of placing a what's called 'a death curse'. This curse goes against a person, not necessarily the one who caused their death, but someone the dying person has unfinished business with. It's supposed to taint the target's Fate and influence their Luck so that no matter how hard the cursed person tries to stay on their true path, things keep on going wrong for them. It can be countered by finding out who did the cursing and setting right the unfinished business, whatever it was. Hypothesis: emergency cloning counts as death for death-cursing purposes. Please discuss.
Morgana Tsukiyo Samsara Dynamics 205	Posted - 2017.05.17 13:04:38 - [239] - Quote Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote: The mythology back home has it that when someone dies violently (suicide counts), they have the option of placing a what's called 'a death curse'. This curse goes against a person, not necessarily the one who caused their death, but someone the dying person has unfinished business with. It's supposed to taint the target's Fate and influence their Luck so that no matter how hard the cursed person tries to stay on their true path, things keep on going wrong for them. It can be countered by finding out who did the cursing and setting right the unfinished business, whatever it was. Hypothesis: emergency cloning counts as death for death-cursing purposes. Please discuss. If you throw a big rock on a lake, it will splash, make you wet and generate ripples that will affect a large area in ways you can-¦t see. If you start thinking that throwing big rocks make people wet, you-¦ll be in a good place to get disappointed. Join Project Transcendence. Applied technology for the enhancement of human experience.
Mizhara Del'thul Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 1761	Posted - 2017.05.17 13:30:35 - [240] - Quote Allright... Let us assume this is a real 'curse' and not a self-fulfilling prophecy caused by the target hearing about it, believing it and attributing all the random setbacks of their lives to the curse. As in, it'd work if no one but the one uttering the curse knowing it happened. This being a death curse, we'll also assume it requires the one uttering it to die in order to work. So, what kind of mechanics can achieve such an effect? I can't think of any that we have a scientific understanding of (yet at least) so that leaves us with the option of spirituality and mysticism. I am not too familiar with Rhiannon beliefs in this regard, so in my ignorance I'll just have to start doing guesswork based on entirely generalized 'woo' principles common to most such things. a) Spirit of the deceased influences the target. b) Spirits of the place of death enacts the will of the deceased. - Possibly merely acts as messengers? c) There are beliefs that we carry spiritual energies within us, as of yet not measurable or proven so... - Upon death, these energies are no longer required for spiritual sustenance and can be directed elsewhere. d) Upon death, we briefly exist both in the world of the living and the dead. - Being a brief link between these worlds may bestow the brief ability for one to affect the other. - The vitality of the living combined with the unmitigated access to the ancestors may confer far greater spiritual command. And so on and so forth. On subjects like these, imagination is really the only limit to what we can conjure up in regards to how these things may or may not work, since nothing has been demonstrably true or false yet. We can work with these few assumptions for now and see where that gets us. Option A seems to be a single shot weapon. One death, one curse, spirit's busy until business has been taken care of. There's also the problem of 'does the spirit actually release upon clone death or is it part of the infomorph' etc, and of course it has the implication of there being no more spirit in the subsequent iterations of your infomorph if that is how it does work. Option B would again work, but also goes against everything I've ever been taught about how to deal with the spirits of both the land, ancestors and more. Now, a death curse would probably be prompted by unfinished business or trauma sufficient enough to justify such things, but the moral and ethical ground gets shaky if this becomes a repeated offense. Still, so far that's as close as we get to a working serial death curse option. Option C is... doable, within the framework of this hypothesis, but it raises the question of where/what these unspecified - and frankly probably non-existent - energies reside. Are they part of the spirit, the body, the infomorph, what? If it's just another material energy source contained in the body itself, it'd probably be replaced by cloning just like the body itself, but if it is tied to other things like the infomorph, spirit and so on the death curse probably wouldn't even fire once in a clone death. Option D is a bit of occultism I don't have any ties to at all. Even the most fervent of our clan does not believe in an afterlife as such. Our spirits of ancestors are merely echoes and impacts that person had on the world in life, which we can access and take comfort in through our arts. However, let's assume it is a thing. Full unmitigated access to the afterlife, with the vitality and fury of the living, could potentially have enormous potential for occult skullduggery like a death curse and theoretically this should work just fine time and time again through clone death. However, this is so far outside my wheelhouse that I'm basically inventing this on the spot with nothing at all to base it on, even as far as pure beliefs go. We could go on here for ages with more and more options for how it'd work, but for now let's give someone else a chance. My conclusion is, emergency cloning potentially counts for death-cursing purposes. No, death curses aren't actually a thing, as far as I'm concerned, since we have so many known effects (self-fulfilling prophecies etc) that'd achieve the exact same thing under the conditions required for anyone at all to know that a death curse was even uttered. ... this was fun though.

Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 916	Posted - 2017.05.17 16:32:13 - [241] - Quote The myths and leogends are really unclear on how this is supposed to work, really. It's not a vengeful ghost, that's a separate thing. It's spoken of as a twisting of the Fate, which in itself is a whole lot of nonsense, of course. And oh, I have an idea now.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3665	Posted - 2017.05.17 16:44:41 - [242] - Quote So, maybe there's a quantum entanglement effect from the bio-electric energy decay that comes with the cessation of chemical processes in the body?
Merchant Rova Ishukone-Raata Technological Research Institute Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 315	Posted - 2017.05.17 16:50:12 - [243] - Quote I can't tell if I should wear glasses again. I was told they made me look more creepy, somehow.
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 292	Posted - 2017.05.17 16:55:22 - [244] - Quote Merchant Rova wrote: I can't tell if I should wear glasses again. I was told they made me look more creepy, somehow. Then you're doing it wrong. This is how one wears glasses.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3666	Posted - 2017.05.17 17:03:50 - [245] - Quote Halcyon Ember wrote: This is how one wears glasses. I still don't get this fad of corrective or faux-corrective lenses.
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 292	Posted - 2017.05.17 17:16:24 - [246] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Halcyon Ember wrote: This is how one wears glasses. I still don't get this fad of corrective or faux-corrective lenses. Neither did I, but I found a pair that projects data on the inside of the lenses in such a way that you can read important things whilst pretending to care what people are telling you.
Valerie Valate Church of The Crimson Saviour Sani-Sabik 2187	Posted - 2017.05.17 17:23:30 - [247] - Quote Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote: Hypothesis: emergency cloning counts as death for death-cursing purposes. Please discuss. Let us suppose that the emergency cloning does indeed count as death, for death-cursing purposes. Now then, what are the implications of capsuleers using the death-curse mechanism ? Well, consider this: With the opportunity of multiple death-curses, then, a capsuleer has a disproportionately large ability to death-curse people, which would certainly be abused by some, to spread death-curses on everyone that has ever annoyed them in some way, no matter how trivially. This would have the effect of further increasing the alienation effect of being a capsuleer, from being a normal Minmatar human person. With the passage of time, it would come to pass, that any normal Minmatar human person would find interacting with a Minmatar capsuleer to be a truly terrifying and stressful prospect. With the ability to wield immense physical power, a capsuleer is already a terrifying entity. When the ability to death-curse anyone they choose, repeatedly, then the fear factor of a capsuleer is magnified. Normal Minmatar would be overcome with fear, when doing business with capsuleers. What if the capsuleer takes offence at something the human has overlooked ? Everything must be just right, lest the human invoke the wrath of the capsuleer. And, some capsuleer people would seek to cultivate this kind of fear, for their own purposes. Ultimately, the Minmatar would become so terrified of capsuleers and their death-curses, that a capsuleer would be seen not as some kind of protector, but as some kind of tormentor of the Minmatar people. Would the Minmatar wish to continue training capsuleers, in that situation ? In Amarr mythology, such an entity would be a Demon, I'm not entirely sure what the equivalent concept would be in Minmatar mythology. Furthermore, capsuleers using the death-curse, would be considered rude, I would say. Because, with their multiple death-curses, basically, they're acting like that jerk at the gym who keeps hogging the equipment. Capsuleers would effectively drown out the death-curses of normal people, who only get one shot. Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Tyrel Toov Non-Hostile Target 1006	Posted - 2017.05.17 18:25:05 - [248] - Quote Valerie Valate wrote: In Amarr mythology, such an entity would be a Demon, I'm not entirely sure what the equivalent concept would be in Minmatar mythology. Rust remover. I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.
Elmund Egivand Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 2383	Posted - 2017.05.17 18:30:55 - [249] - Quote Tyrel Toov wrote: Valerie Valate wrote: In Amarr mythology, such an entity would be a Demon, I'm not entirely sure what the equivalent concept would be in Minmatar mythology. Rust remover. Har har har. Well, more seriously, in Minmatar folklore the role of 'demon' would be taken by all manner of entities. One I personally know of is the Draugr, you know, restless dead who guard mounds and tombs and treasure, invade dreams, curse people and being really darn difficult to kill a second time. Then there's the wisps that goes around luring people to their deaths in bogs. And etc etc etc. No singular entity that will go around throwing death curses at people or haunt them or lead them to their doom. We have many, so very many of them instead. It's kind of what happens when a clan develops their own set of evil supernatural afterlife entities, another clan does that too, and then another, and then another and then we put all of them together when we decided to become Tribe, then join with other Tribes who also did the same thing and... A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 918	Posted - 2017.05.17 18:43:08 - [250] - Quote My clan's mythology actually does have demons. Then again, it also has God, so maybe that's not surprising. (God waged war on demons of the Amarrian Hell, but then He went power-crazy and started to wage war on other gods and spirits and humans too, and this is why He is the most powerful of all Gods, with the power to judge over Heaven and Hell, but also Evil. Some legends say He is also Nameless because in His greed He also destroyed (or ate) His name, and that it is His true name he actually seeks with his constant trying to conquer everyone.) So I am a ghost on the verge of becoming a demon. Now I almost want to go home for midyear so I can bring this up with some priest/shaman sometime well into the feast night.

Casserina Leshrac Sanguine Illuminations 183	Posted - 2017.05.17 18:47:22 - [251] - Quote Halcyon Ember wrote: Merchant Rova wrote: I can't tell if I should wear glasses again. I was told they made me look more creepy, somehow. Then you're doing it wrong. This is how one wears glasses. I always did like he glasses Halcy. Call it personal biased. *We stand at the Abyss, drawing the Patterns of Fate - Casserina Leshrac, Savant, Sani Sabik.*
Elmund Egivand Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 2383	Posted - 2017.05.17 18:49:20 - [252] - Quote Point being that if we are going to catalogue everything that plays the role of the Demon in every Minmatar myth and folklore we will end up with several volumes of very thick books. And there will be Molok and Amarr Demon in them too because, well, Nefantar and Amarr-Faithful. The Amarr God will probably also have a spot in there. Actually, thinking about it, aren't these volumes already available somewhere? A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Valerie Valate Church of The Crimson Saviour Sani-Sabik 2189	Posted - 2017.05.17 19:01:15 - [253] - Quote Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote: So I am a ghost on the verge of becoming a demon. Possibly. In my opinion, if you do decide to go down the route of being the Demon, I suggest a little bit of bodymodding, to enhance the effect. Red skin, horns, leathery wings, oh and, you have to wear skimpy clothing that is liberally decorated with skulls and stuff. Gives people The Fear. And gives some other people some confusingly arousing thoughts, but the less said about them, the better ! Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Mizhir TURN LEFT HYDRA RELOADED 75267	Posted - 2017.05.17 20:57:24 - [254] - Quote Halcyon Ember wrote: Arrendis wrote: Halcyon Ember wrote: This is how one wears glasses. I still don't get this fad of corrective or faux-corrective lenses. Neither did I, but I found a pair that projects data on the inside of the lenses in such a way that you can read important things whilst pretending to care what people are telling you. Well there is the fashion aspect to it as well. Death rides a fast C4mel
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3677	Posted - 2017.05.17 21:24:17 - [255] - Quote Mizhir wrote: Halcyon Ember wrote: Arrendis wrote: Halcyon Ember wrote: This is how one wears glasses. I still don't get this fad of corrective or faux-corrective lenses. Neither did I, but I found a pair that projects data on the inside of the lenses in such a way that you can read important things whilst pretending to care what people are telling you. Well there is the fashion aspect to it as well. You mean the bit where you create visible indentations in the skin of your nose that never go away?
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3677	Posted - 2017.05.17 21:26:26 - [256] - Quote Syenna Celeste wrote: She gloated all over my fleet channel about how she'd called you in. Believe me, I know a rat when I smell one. Typical, traitorous Minmatar that aren't even really loyal to their own. I pity you. Samira and I are friends, yes. Haven't denied that. Also haven't denied that she asked me about the possibility of bringing a fleet down. But keep on trying to smear someone widely known to be intensely an intensely loyal and devout member of PIE. I may not like their goals, but other than being deranged God-bothering slavery-supporters, they're not the worst people I've known.
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 293	Posted - 2017.05.17 22:08:27 - [257] - Quote Arrendis wrote: You mean the bit where you create visible indentations in the skin of your nose that never go away? Well..until the next time someone pods me. There are worse ways to find oneself with marred skin.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3680	Posted - 2017.05.17 22:11:05 - [258] - Quote Halcyon Ember wrote: Well..until the next time someone pods me. That depends on when you updated your medical clone, doesn't it?
Loai Qerl Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 314	Posted - 2017.05.17 23:45:33 - [259] - Quote Arrendis, you are wearing goggles still after three days and that means it was a MOST notable hangover. And at the age you insist your clones be kept at, too. Seventeen years old, no? For neural plasticity and physical resilience? It's worrisome, that's all. Are you well?
Mizhir TURN LEFT HYDRA RELOADED 75268	Posted - 2017.05.18 08:41:56 - [260] - Quote Arrendis wrote: You mean the bit where you create visible indentations in the skin of your nose that never go away? If that is a concern of yours you may want to reconsider the use of goggles. Death rides a fast C4mel

Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3690	Posted - 2017.05.18 11:38:55 - [261] - Quote Mizhir wrote: Arrendis wrote: You mean the bit where you create visible indentations in the skin of your nose that never go away? If that is a concern of yours you may want to reconsider the use of goggles. They serve a purpose. The untinted corrective lenses, less so.
Elmund Egivand Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 2387	Posted - 2017.05.18 11:46:36 - [262] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Mizhir wrote: Arrendis wrote: You mean the bit where you create visible indentations in the skin of your nose that never go away? If that is a concern of yours you may want to reconsider the use of goggles. They serve a purpose. The untinted corrective lenses, less so. I thought part of the screening process for capsuleer candidacy is having 20/20 vision. What do you have corrective lenses? A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3690	Posted - 2017.05.18 12:03:24 - [263] - Quote Elmund Egivand wrote: I thought part of the screening process for capsuleer candidacy is having 20/20 vision. What do you have corrective lenses? That's why I'm asking why people keep wearing those untinted ones!
Elmund Egivand Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 2387	Posted - 2017.05.18 12:06:37 - [264] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Elmund Egivand wrote: I thought part of the screening process for capsuleer candidacy is having 20/20 vision. What do you have corrective lenses? That's why I'm asking why people keep wearing those untinted ones! I thought the ones sold on the NES are purely cosmetic in purpose? A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Mizhir TURN LEFT HYDRA RELOADED 75268	Posted - 2017.05.18 12:32:38 - [265] - Quote Elmund Egivand wrote: Arrendis wrote: Elmund Egivand wrote: I thought part of the screening process for capsuleer candidacy is having 20/20 vision. What do you have corrective lenses? That's why I'm asking why people keep wearing those untinted ones! I thought the ones sold on the NES are purely cosmetic in purpose? Well they do have a neat head up display as well. Although that can also be achieved with contact lenses or implants. Death rides a fast C4mel
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 294	Posted - 2017.05.18 12:40:07 - [266] - Quote Mizhir wrote: Well they do have a neat head up display as well. Although that can also be achieved with contact lenses or implants. I tried the contact lenses, but the redness from poking myself in the eye was unsightly.
Morgana Tsukiyo Samsara Dynamics 220	Posted - 2017.05.18 13:26:12 - [267] - Quote Genetic engineer a proper clone dear heavens! Join Project Transcendence. Applied technology for the enhancement of human experience.
Elmund Egivand Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 2388	Posted - 2017.05.18 13:33:36 - [268] - Quote Morgana Tsukiyo wrote: Genetic engineer a proper clone dear heavens! But for some of us, our genetic flaws are a package of who we are. Also, I already have a heads up display which blinks on every time I open my eyes. A second set is really redundant and interferes with the first set. A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Morgana Tsukiyo Samsara Dynamics 220	Posted - 2017.05.18 13:37:19 - [269] - Quote Elmund Egivand wrote: Morgana Tsukiyo wrote: Genetic engineer a proper clone dear heavens! But for some of us, our genetic flaws are a package of who we are. Also, I already have a heads up display which blinks on every time I open my eyes. A second set is really redundant and interferes with the first set. Flaw? I cant grasp the concept. Join Project Transcendence. Applied technology for the enhancement of human experience.
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 294	Posted - 2017.05.18 15:30:17 - [270] - Quote Morgana Tsukiyo wrote: Flaw? I cant grasp the concept. Are you practically perfect in every way?

Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 302	Posted - 2017.05.19 14:36:17 - [271] - Quote Aria Jenneth wrote: Please be a crisis of consience. Please be a crisis of conscience. Please please please please. You've just given an unapologetic, megalomanical narcissist the perfect opportunity to perform some horrendous deed to crush your expectations and elicit yet another response to you. What did I tell you yesterday?
Aria Jenneth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 3879	Posted - 2017.05.19 14:49:54 - [272] - Quote You might be putting more weight on those words than I did, Ms.Ember. Hope and expectation aren't always close friends.
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 303	Posted - 2017.05.19 15:02:59 - [273] - Quote I'll just say that I'm disappointed in you. If you intend to comport yourself in this manner, I'd recommend you place a block on your own communications.
Morgana Tsukiyo Samsara Dynamics 224	Posted - 2017.05.19 15:07:27 - [274] - Quote Halcyon Ember wrote: I'll just say that I'm disappointed in you. If you intend to comport yourself in this manner, I'd recommend you place a block on your own communications. I KNOW, RIGHT? She spent far too much time with the Amarr, don-¦t know what is going on with her. Join Project Transcendence. Applied technology for the enhancement of human experience.
Aria Jenneth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 3882	Posted - 2017.05.19 15:10:44 - [275] - Quote Halcyon Ember wrote: I'll just say that I'm disappointed in you. Noted. Feeling now a bit mutual.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3713	Posted - 2017.05.19 15:12:21 - [276] - Quote Morgana Tsukiyo wrote: I cant grasp the concept. I think we're all getting used to that from you, yes.
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 307	Posted - 2017.05.19 15:15:49 - [277] - Quote Aria Jenneth wrote: Halcyon Ember wrote: I'll just say that I'm disappointed in you. Noted. Feeling now a bit mutual. Yes well, many people like to tell me they're disappointed in me. One reason I tend to avoid meddling in the affairs of others. My experiences compelled me to make the attempt in this case. If my not agreeing with you is a disappointment I suppose that's something you'll have to live with. A shame.
Morgana Tsukiyo Samsara Dynamics 224	Posted - 2017.05.19 15:19:06 - [278] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Morgana Tsukiyo wrote: I cant grasp the concept. I think we're all getting used to that from you, yes. Flaw and Perfection imply there is an "ideal" mold to aspire and the degrees of difference from this "idea" are bad. Usually people set their respective deity as the ultimate perfection mold and aspire to be closer to it or content themselves in looking at it and punishing themselves for not being closer-equal to it. So i find very hard to understand how people think like this when all this is an illusion and whatever is is right for it couldn-¦t be otherwise. Join Project Transcendence. Applied technology for the enhancement of human experience.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3723	Posted - 2017.05.19 15:33:34 - [279] - Quote Morgana Tsukiyo wrote: Flaw and Perfection imply there is an "ideal" mold to aspire and the degrees of difference from this "idea" are bad. My statement was more in the general sense, but since you went there... if you look at the context, we're talking about bio-engineering. There is no 'aspiring' in whether or not something will work. Either it will, or it won't. If it won't, the reasons it won't are flaws. You correct them. Period. But thanks for demonstrating my actual point.
Morgana Tsukiyo Samsara Dynamics 224	Posted - 2017.05.19 15:37:55 - [280] - Quote Arrendis wrote: My statement was more in the general sense, but since you went there... if you look at the context, we're talking about bio-engineering. There is no 'aspiring' in whether or not something will work. Either it will, or it won't. If it won't, the reasons it won't are flaws. You correct them. Period. But thanks for demonstrating my actual point. If it can be otherwise, it will. Until then, it isn-¦t. Bio-engineering is a way of changing things. Things that can be changed respecting the rules of the dreamstate. No need for better, worst, flaw, perfect, just different. We-¦re talking about the same thing dear, remove the googles to have a better look at it. Join Project Transcendence. Applied technology for the enhancement of human experience.

Che Biko Alexylva Paradox 988	Posted - 2017.05.19 15:46:55 - [281] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Che Biko wrote: I think Ms. Jenneth was not referring to Ms. Tsukiyo's concience. It's a pretty easy mistake to make though. 'Nothing' and 'Nothing' get confused a lot. Here's a funny quote from some flavor text for a game item named Null Rod, that both Achura mentioned above may enjoy: Quote: "But it doesn't do anything!" "No---it does nothing." Coordination Channel for Consolidated Space Rescue Cooperation Open Letter to the Aidonis Foundation Directorate
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3748	Posted - 2017.05.19 15:48:58 - [282] - Quote Morgana Tsukiyo wrote: No need for better, worst, flaw, perfect, just different. Let's try this in simple terms: you have two sets of genes, and 2 environments. One of these environments is the open water, at depths of about 500-2000m. The other is a temperate rain forest. One set of genes makes a fish. The other makes a marmoset. Each of these sets of genes is better for producing a viable life form in one of those environments than the other is. Conversely, each of these sets of genes is worse for producing a viable life form in the other environment. Alternately: Two sets of human genes. Each makes a human being. One of these sets of genes will, inescapably, result in a malfunctioning heart valve that will require pre-natal surgery, or the human being cannot survive outside the womb. That's a genetic flaw.
Morgana Tsukiyo Samsara Dynamics 224	Posted - 2017.05.19 15:50:56 - [283] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Morgana Tsukiyo wrote: No need for better, worst, flaw, perfect, just different. Let's try this in simple terms: you have two sets of genes, and 2 environments. One of these environments is the open water, at depths of about 500-2000m. The other is a temperate rain forest. One set of genes makes a fish. The other makes a marmoset. Each of these sets of genes is better for producing a viable life form in one of those environments than the other is. Conversely, each of these sets of genes is worse for producing a viable life form in the other environment. Alternately: Two sets of human genes. Each makes a human being. One of these sets of genes will, inescapably, result in a malfunctioning heart valve that will require pre-natal surgery, or the human being cannot survive outside the womb. That's a genetic flaw. That is characteristic that will most likely not be perpetuated. A flaw? Only in your artificially created conception. Join Project Transcendence. Applied technology for the enhancement of human experience.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3749	Posted - 2017.05.19 16:03:55 - [284] - Quote Morgana Tsukiyo wrote: Only in your artificially created conception. Welcome to engineering. Engineering is an endeavor. It requires purposeGÇöeven if potentially unintended. Purpose means the capacity for evaluation: 'does this serve the purpose, or no?' This engenders the relative qualities of 'better', 'worse', as well as other relative qualities as 'flawed'. As for your little attempt at being dismissive: my framework is no more artificial than yoursGÇöand no less. 'Artificial' and 'artifice' simply mean 'made by people'. And every thought you have is made by a person: you.
Morgana Tsukiyo Samsara Dynamics 224	Posted - 2017.05.19 16:09:52 - [285] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Welcome to engineering. Engineering is an endeavor. It requires purposeGÇöeven if potentially unintended. Purpose means the capacity for evaluation: 'does this serve the purpose, or no?' This engenders the relative qualities of 'better', 'worse', as well as other relative qualities as 'flawed'. As for your little attempt at being dismissive: my framework is no more artificial than yoursGÇöand no less. 'Artificial' and 'artifice' simply mean 'made by people'. And every thought you have is made by a person: you. And there we go again. I don-¦t project a purpose, so i can-¦t grasp any flaws or perfections because there is no reference point to it. You do. I try to show to you that if you look away from this reference you-¦ll not see anything, you put your googles on to avoid seeing what couldn-¦t be clearer. I can understand that your mind created a reference, i can understand that by these parameters you can articulate whatever it is that you articulate, i can understand that is appears hard to let go of it otherwise you won-¦t have any ground to build upon and this feeds your fear. And since this is how it is, all is fine. =* Join Project Transcendence. Applied technology for the enhancement of human experience.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3750	Posted - 2017.05.19 16:24:00 - [286] - Quote Except, of course, that by inserting yourself into a discussion that had a specific context, you take on that context. And within the context of the discussion, genetic markers for poor vision qualify as flaws. But as I said: your general inability to grasp anything comes as no surprise to any of us.
Morgana Tsukiyo Samsara Dynamics 224	Posted - 2017.05.19 16:28:17 - [287] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Except, of course, that by inserting yourself into a discussion that had a specific context, you take on that context. And within the context of the discussion, genetic markers for poor vision qualify as flaws. But as I said: your general inability to grasp anything comes as no surprise to any of us. Even within that framework you can look at it without pre-conceptions. A characteristic that is not perpetuated. You can reduce the description to this sentence. If you put more into it, it is you that is putting, then it becomes about you,not the characteristic. "I Arrendis think due to my concepts and memetic framework that not being able to be replicated is a flaw, hence, this characteristic is classified as such." Join Project Transcendence. Applied technology for the enhancement of human experience.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3750	Posted - 2017.05.19 16:32:42 - [288] - Quote Morgana Tsukiyo wrote: Even within that framework you can look at it without pre-conceptions. A characteristic that is not perpetuated. You can reduce the description to this sentence. Except, of course, that that's not the case at all. Congratulations, you've gotten hung up on the later example of the viability of life forms, and lost the fact that what was being discussed is that capsuleer training screens for genetic markers for poor vision. It has nothing to do with whether or not the characteristic is perpetuated, only that the characteristic, by nature of screening, es evaluated and found to be a defect, or 'flaw', that renders that genome unacceptable for capsuleer implants. Soooo... no, you can't, because you're not talking about perpetuating the genome, you're talking about whether or not the genome is acceptable.
Mizhara Del'thul Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 1836	Posted - 2017.05.19 16:35:41 - [289] - Quote "no u" "no u" Repeat. There, I just summarized the next few pages of the thread. Can we skip it?
Morgana Tsukiyo Samsara Dynamics 224	Posted - 2017.05.19 16:36:13 - [290] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Morgana Tsukiyo wrote: Even within that framework you can look at it without pre-conceptions. A characteristic that is not perpetuated. You can reduce the description to this sentence. Except, of course, that that's not the case at all. Congratulations, you've gotten hung up on the later example of the viability of life forms, and lost the fact that what was being discussed is that capsuleer training screens for genetic markers for poor vision. It has nothing to do with whether or not the characteristic is perpetuated, only that the characteristic, by nature of screening, es evaluated and found to be a defect, or 'flaw', that renders that genome unacceptable for capsuleer implants. Soooo... no, you can't, because you're not talking about perpetuating the genome, you're talking about whether or not the genome is acceptable. Not having an arbitrary sight index excludes you from being a capsuleer. How many adjectives did this sentence need? Join Project Transcendence. Applied technology for the enhancement of human experience.

Aria Jenneth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 3885	Posted - 2017.05.19 16:37:51 - [291] - Quote Halcyon Ember wrote: [quote=Aria Jenneth]If my not agreeing with you is a disappointment I suppose that's something you'll have to live with. A shame. The disagreement isn't why, Ms. Ember. The attempt to manipulate me by implying you think I am or should be seeking your approval: that is why. That, and the suggestion I should silence myself. I'm a bit childlike in certain ways, maybe, and approval's nice. There's only one person I really care strongly about it from, though.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3756	Posted - 2017.05.19 16:38:38 - [292] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: "no u" "no u" Repeat. There, I just summarized the next few pages of the thread. Can we skip it? Eh, fair enough. I think I've made my point anyway.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3756	Posted - 2017.05.19 16:39:58 - [293] - Quote Aria Jenneth wrote: the suggestion I should silence myself. All things considered, Aria, I don't know you've got much room to be aggrieved by that, right now.
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 311	Posted - 2017.05.19 16:45:42 - [294] - Quote Aria Jenneth wrote: Halcyon Ember wrote: If my not agreeing with you is a disappointment I suppose that's something you'll have to live with. A shame. The disagreement isn't why, Ms. Ember. The attempt to manipulate me by implying you think I am or should be seeking your approval: that is why. That, and the suggestion I should silence myself. I'm a bit childlike in certain ways, maybe, and approval's nice. There's only one person I really care strongly about it from, though. You misunderstand me. You misjudge the level of investment I have in you as well. Not surprising, I'm sure you know very little of me beyond the reputation that I am aware of. I'm stating that I found your behaviour disappointing when so many have spoken so highly of you. I stated what I felt would be a better recourse than encouraging a lunatic. You can do whatever you like. It's one of the wonderful freedoms we have as capsuleers. Unlike many, I'm not delusional in the belief that my words will have an impact on the behaviours of people that I barely interact with. I leave manipulating people to others. Like Nauplius.
Aria Jenneth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 3887	Posted - 2017.05.19 16:48:36 - [295] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Aria Jenneth wrote: the suggestion I should silence myself. All things considered, Aria, I don't know you've got much room to be aggrieved by that, right now. You really didn't like me asking you to stop, I guess.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3764	Posted - 2017.05.19 16:50:23 - [296] - Quote Aria Jenneth wrote: You really didn't like me asking you to stop, I guess. I'm just pointing out that having more or less pulled the 'please be silent' card, getting upset when someone does it to you less than 36 later on the same topic... Not your best moment, my friend.
Aria Jenneth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 3888	Posted - 2017.05.19 16:58:46 - [297] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Aria Jenneth wrote: You really didn't like me asking you to stop, I guess. I'm just pointing out that having more or less pulled the 'please be silent' card, getting upset when someone does it to you less than 36 later on the same topic... Not your best moment, my friend. ... okay. Well, if you sincerely think they're comparable ... ... maybe I'll shut up for a while.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3769	Posted - 2017.05.19 17:09:32 - [298] - Quote Aria Jenneth wrote: ... okay. Well, if you sincerely think they're comparable ... I think, as you yourself have said: a) this matter involves your homeworld, b) you feel somewhat responsible, and c) you are somewhat less dispassionate about, as a result. If I didn't understand that, I wouldn't have agreed to let go the specific topic you asked about. I can certainly understand bristling when someone suggests you should shut up. My own reply to you on the topic was not my originally-drafted one. I think it was about my seventh. What I'm saying to you now is: you are emotionally invested, and reacting emotionally. It's all very understandable, but that doesn't make for the kind of consistency in position you generally like to take. Should you be quiet? That's entirely up to you to decide, and I think you're more than capable of making a considered, informed decision when you're thinking about it, and not just reacting. Should you be offended when someone asks something of you that you've asked of someone else? That's where the issue of pots and kettles comes in. If you don't feel this is a matter where you can be silent, then don't. But if you're listing 'please be quiet' as an offense against you, then you need to evaluate your own actions as well. That's all.
Che Biko Alexylva Paradox 990	Posted - 2017.05.19 17:32:05 - [299] - Quote I see my attempt to lighten up the discussion in this thread has been mostly in vain. Coordination Channel for Consolidated Space Rescue Cooperation Open Letter to the Aidonis Foundation Directorate
Che Biko Alexylva Paradox 991	Posted - 2017.05.19 18:07:05 - [300] - Quote Miss Tsukiyo, Get ****... By me, over a period of several months. You might actually achieve transcendence then. I'm serious. I've done it before. Well, I did more than *****, obviously, but still. Makes me kinda wish Nauplius had a thing for me instead of my friends. Coordination Channel for Consolidated Space Rescue Cooperation Open Letter to the Aidonis Foundation Directorate

Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 312	Posted - 2017.05.19 18:11:19 - [301] - Quote Che Biko wrote: I see my attempt to lighten up the discussion in this thread has been mostly in vain. It was a valiant try
Aria Jenneth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 3889	Posted - 2017.05.19 19:07:47 - [302] - Quote Arrendis wrote: It's all very understandable, but that doesn't make for the kind of consistency in position you generally like to take. Am I usually consistent? ... maybe. I usually try for clarity. Reality is consistently itself, but its complexity's pretty high. Fractal, even. Ms. Ember thinks Mr. Nauplius is manipulating me. That's a warning I've received before, at various points, but, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Mr. Nauplius is a lot of things. Do deceitful, wily, and subtle really strike you as among them? He's honored every bargain he's ever struck with me, letter and spirit, interpreting them more conservatively than most would have. I believe Ms. Raske can report similar experiences. Just because I don't hate him, and don't hide my feelings when I hope he can be a better person, doesn't mean I'm being played. Although, maybe I'm playing myself, trying to coax a man out of dark waters who drowned there long ago. But the part of my soul that needs work isn't the cold-blooded realist. That bit is well-fed, happy, and sitting back making cautionary remarks with the rest of you wise people.
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 312	Posted - 2017.05.19 19:18:39 - [303] - Quote I think you misunderstand the ways in which people manipulate one another
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3770	Posted - 2017.05.19 19:41:07 - [304] - Quote Aria Jenneth wrote: Ms. Ember thinks Mr. Nauplius is manipulating me. That's a warning I've received before, at various points, but, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Mr. Nauplius is a lot of things. Do deceitful, wily, and subtle really strike you as among them? Napkins wants one thing. It's a thing he can't get unless other people give it to him. He's consistently made moves to provoke people into giving it to him. That's manipulation. He doesn't have to be deceitful or subtle to do it. He simply has to say 'you're going to give me what I want, because I'm going to do something that makes you give me what I want'. That's it. So, yeah.. he's pretty manipulative. Openly manipulative.
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 313	Posted - 2017.05.19 19:45:42 - [305] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Aria Jenneth wrote: Ms. Ember thinks Mr. Nauplius is manipulating me. That's a warning I've received before, at various points, but, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Mr. Nauplius is a lot of things. Do deceitful, wily, and subtle really strike you as among them? Napkins wants one thing. It's a thing he can't get unless other people give it to him. He's consistently made moves to provoke people into giving it to him. That's manipulation. He doesn't have to be deceitful or subtle to do it. He simply has to say 'you're going to give me what I want, because I'm going to do something that makes you give me what I want'. That's it. So, yeah.. he's pretty manipulative. Openly manipulative. Thankyou, Arrendis. You may have chocolate whenever you wish.
Aria Jenneth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 3889	Posted - 2017.05.19 19:47:35 - [306] - Quote Halcyon Ember wrote: I think you misunderstand the ways in which people manipulate one another Then maybe I'll learn. (In an absolute sense, it's maybe hard to communicate at all without manipulating someone. That's not usually what we mean when we talk about it, though.) Edit: Oh, we're talking about the way you think he's manipulating everyone, and for what, not me personally.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3770	Posted - 2017.05.19 19:48:46 - [307] - Quote Aria Jenneth wrote: (In an absolute sense, it's maybe hard to communicate at all without manipulating someone. That's not usually what we mean when we talk about it, though.) This is true. However, a child throwing a tantrum until it gets a cookie is still manipulation.
Aria Jenneth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 3890	Posted - 2017.05.20 04:11:33 - [308] - Quote ... so ... I've taken a while to think about this. A part of me doesn't want to respond at all. But, it seems like this kind of supposed wisdom's kind of become a favorite idea of a few people I usually like okay, so, maybe I should reply. My predecessor was a calculating person. The idea that Ghost Festival was a family, something closer than a circle of predators united by a common, cold purpose, was a thing she rejected. I guess family had never really been a source of joy to her, after all. As a result, though, it seems pretty clear to me that by the end, Ghost Festival wasn't hers at all anymore-- not just because she'd been replaced by a better leader, but because she didn't understand the people who had left her behind. I'm not so much of a masochist. So I'd likely reject the idea of sacrificing more lives in the short term to save more in the long, regardless, because I don't really want to be the kind of person who watches a million people die, thinking, "It's okay; he'll give up eventually, and stop." If that seems naive to you, or hypocritical, okay, I'm naive and a hypocrite. And I don't care, because I prefer that to being someone who doesn't listen to her heart. That quality of humans, to sacrifice the person under threat today, to save others-- maybe many others-- later on, is an important quality. It's a quintessentially human thing to be able to do. But I think it gets overused a little. So, I'm not going to listen to it unless I really believe it's the correct thing. And, right here, I don't. In the abstract, ignoring Nauplius might be the right thing to do if you could really maintain and enforce discipline on this, but he has the really unfortunate quality of being really good at making himself really hard to ignore. Get every existing pilot to ignore him (ha! right), and the next act will be that much more charismatic-- bearing in mind that Nauplius even getting a regular diet of attention is fully capable of verifiably annihilating a million people once a year. And someone will ask, "Why don't you do something?" And you'll tell that person. And maybe they'll agree with you! Maybe everyone still will ... and then he'll do something even bigger and uglier. And something bigger and uglier still. And then? And then, someone will say, "He's Amarr, you know." And it all comes apart. The Matari will go after the Amarr for heartlessly ignoring a mass-murderer. The Amarr will taunt the Matari for sitting on their hands while their kin are murdered. No one will listen to your voices of reason when there are cheap political shots to be taken and partisan points to be scored. Nauplius-- assuming attention really is what he wants-- will be sated to bursting. You'll lose every inch of ground you'd gained. In the meantime, the massacres will have gotten worse, and there'll be no reason at all for him to tone it down. And that's IF the Amarr could stomach sitting on their hands while a heretic conducts massacres in the first place. Ignoring a situation like this is the prerogative of those who aren't especially close to it. So, please, go ahead, if you can stomach it. Do like Miz does: ignore the whole nasty mess and sneer at us for trying, until someone comes away with a few thousand rescued Matari for you to threaten people over. I can't. And I'm too close to it, anyway. I've helped treat too many of his victims; counseled the survivors, comforted the dying. Listened to the names of the dead, read out one by one, for over eight hours without pause. So ... yeah. Walking away from this isn't really an option for me. Even leaving Achura aside, this is personal for me in a pile of ways. I cannot walk away. If that disappoints you, be disappointed.
kul Shaishi Yurai-Tenshin Zaibatsu 27	Posted - 2017.05.20 04:49:39 - [309] - Quote Aria Why did you like my post in the Nauplius thread
Aria Jenneth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 3893	Posted - 2017.05.20 04:57:48 - [310] - Quote kul Shaishi wrote: Aria Why did you like my post in the Nauplius thread .... Well ... this is very much in the spirit of the thread, I guess. I don't like Tom Horn very much. Even leaving his politics aside, he apparently tried to get Nauplius to let him brutalize people in addition to whatever else might be going on. So, I guess, imagining violent things happening to him isn't unpleasant? I guess I didn't think too much about it.

Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 316	Posted - 2017.05.20 09:03:22 - [311] - Quote Aria Jenneth wrote: If that disappoints you, be disappointed. To explain fully what it is that disappoints me would reveal too much of myself, something I see no good reason to do. Simply put, when you respond to him in the fashion that you do, you make of yourself his victim. This is what a narcissist such as Nauplius craves. The attention of the masses is simply a happy byproduct.
Morgana Tsukiyo Samsara Dynamics 225	Posted - 2017.05.20 10:12:24 - [312] - Quote Halcyon Ember wrote: Aria Jenneth wrote: If that disappoints you, be disappointed. To explain fully what it is that disappoints me would reveal too much of myself, something I see no good reason to do. Simply put, when you respond to him in the fashion that you do, you make of yourself his victim. This is what a narcissist such as Nauplius craves. The attention of the masses is simply a happy byproduct. Whatever happened its in the past, he wont hurt you anymore. You have every means of defending yourself now. No need to carry a weight that is not right here right now. Join Project Transcendence. Applied technology for the enhancement of human experience.
Nauplius Hoi Andrapodistai 821	Posted - 2017.05.20 12:41:40 - [313] - Quote I think I just made a discovery. Just now, I noticed that Aria does not appear to have any upper eyelashes. Although it has harder to see on the other Achurans who pictures are available in this and other threads, they nonetheless do not appear to have any upper eyelashes either. Is this a known physiological feature of the Achuran people? If so, I think I might offer free artificial upper eyelash transplants in my Achuran Missionary Citadel to any Achuran who yearns to have upper eyelashes and is willing to attend a Blood Liturgy, Achuran rite.
Che Biko Alexylva Paradox 992	Posted - 2017.05.20 13:07:52 - [314] - Quote The post above is evidence that capsuleers can lose their 20/20 vision after screening. Coordination Channel for Consolidated Space Rescue Cooperation Open Letter to the Aidonis Foundation Directorate
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 316	Posted - 2017.05.20 13:14:34 - [315] - Quote Che Biko wrote: The post above is evidence that capsuleers can lose their 20/20 vision after screening. I don't think the notable inference here relates to his vision
Che Biko Alexylva Paradox 992	Posted - 2017.05.20 13:20:54 - [316] - Quote What is the inference then? Coordination Channel for Consolidated Space Rescue Cooperation Open Letter to the Aidonis Foundation Directorate
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 316	Posted - 2017.05.20 14:57:47 - [317] - Quote Che Biko wrote: What is the inference then? Either his obvious insanity, of which we're all aware. Or that he's been staring longingly into the eyes of Aria's portrait.
Aria Jenneth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 3894	Posted - 2017.05.20 15:35:30 - [318] - Quote Uh-- actually, Mr. Nauplius, it's just that my eyelashes are pointed almost straight at the camera. You can still see them. This might help: I don't normally wear makeup other than lipstick. That's not eyeliner you're seeing.
Nauplius Hoi Andrapodistai 821	Posted - 2017.05.20 15:50:59 - [319] - Quote Aria Jenneth wrote: Uh-- actually, Mr. Nauplius, it's just that my eyelashes are pointed almost straight at the camera. You can still see them. This might help: I don't normally wear makeup other than lipstick. That's not eyeliner you're seeing. Hmm. It does seem that Aria's upper eyelashes are visible with some difficulty in her holoimage when angled a certain way, especially when she blinks. I wonder whether the degraded state of Achuran upper eyelashes is an evolutionary adaptation to hundreds of years of Achurans plucking out each other's eyelashes in ritual torture; obviously, those with bushy eyelashes would be a prime target for capture and torture, while those Achurans without them might be ignored and able to pass on their small eyelash genes.
Jev North Anshar Incorporated Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group 924	Posted - 2017.05.20 15:54:26 - [320] - Quote Quite, in much the same way that the classical Amarr aquiline nose enabled their priests to more easily lead them around, and thus enabled greater social cohesion. Even though our love is cruel; even though our stars are crossed.

Aria Jenneth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 3898	Posted - 2017.05.20 16:12:04 - [321] - Quote Halcyon Ember wrote: To explain fully what it is that disappoints me would reveal too much of myself, something I see no good reason to do. Simply put, when you respond to him in the fashion that you do, you make of yourself his victim. This is what a narcissist such as Nauplius craves. The attention of the masses is simply a happy byproduct. There's more here than victimhood. ... which doesn't seem like it applies so much, if I don't see myself that way. There's something I want from him: the lives in his hands. (Also his temple out from its orbit around my homeworld, but that's likely to happen pretty soon anyway.) There are things he wants from me, too; I don't actually think my suffering's one, even if he sometimes gets that. If he did, it wouldn't matter very much to me. It would change the context a little, though. I'm just a figment in this world, Ms. Ember. ... like any of us. Only, a little unusually, I'm aware of it. I carry my own life lightly. I'm not ... helpless. But a part of what I do with Mr. Nauplius is a matter of honor, and honesty, and even trust. Part of that is that I don't hide my intentions, or my feelings. If he wants my anger, or my hurt, he can have those. He can have my slightly-uneasy trust, too, and my admiration for his own kind-of-strange integrity. And even my sympathy-- it's an awful god he serves, an awful universe he sees with his waking eyes. I wish I could show him a better one-- for his sake, and that of those at his mercy. So, he also gets a little of my hope, however frail it might be. He can't have my hate. ... at least not for long. That's not something I give so easily. If I come away now and then with a few unlucky people who stood to suffer more than I was ever at any risk of, I count the trade worthwhile.
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 316	Posted - 2017.05.20 16:49:41 - [322] - Quote Jev North wrote: Quite, in much the same way that the classical Amarr aquiline nose enabled their priests to more easily lead them around, and thus enabled greater social cohesion. So it's my nose that led me astray?
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 316	Posted - 2017.05.20 16:52:49 - [323] - Quote Aria Jenneth wrote: Halcyon Ember wrote: To explain fully what it is that disappoints me would reveal too much of myself, something I see no good reason to do. Simply put, when you respond to him in the fashion that you do, you make of yourself his victim. This is what a narcissist such as Nauplius craves. The attention of the masses is simply a happy byproduct. There's more here than victimhood. ... which doesn't seem like it applies so much, if I don't see myself that way. There's something I want from him: the lives in his hands. (Also his temple out from its orbit around my homeworld, but that's likely to happen pretty soon anyway.) There are things he wants from me, too; I don't actually think my suffering's one, even if he sometimes gets that. If he did, it wouldn't matter very much to me. It would change the context a little, though. I'm just a figment in this world, Ms. Ember. ... like any of us. Only, a little unusually, I'm aware of it. I carry my own life lightly. I'm not ... helpless. But a part of what I do with Mr. Nauplius is a matter of honor, and honesty, and even trust. Part of that is that I don't hide my intentions, or my feelings. If he wants my anger, or my hurt, he can have those. He can have my slightly-uneasy trust, too, and my admiration for his own kind-of-strange integrity. And even my sympathy-- it's an awful god he serves, an awful universe he sees with his waking eyes. I wish I could show him a better one-- for his sake, and that of those at his mercy. So, he also gets a little of my hope, however frail it might be. He can't have my hate. ... at least not for long. That's not something I give so easily. If I come away now and then with a few unlucky people who stood to suffer more than I was ever at any risk of, I count the trade worthwhile. I understand where you're coming from. I lack the means to enlighten you as to where I'm coming from. You'll do as you will and carry the hurts that you suffer. You'll be educated by the abuse you receive. I hope you value the lesson, hard won as it will be.
Aria Jenneth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 3898	Posted - 2017.05.20 17:31:59 - [324] - Quote Halcyon Ember wrote: I understand where you're coming from. I lack the means to enlighten you as to where I'm coming from. You'll do as you will and carry the hurts that you suffer. You'll be educated by the abuse you receive. I hope you value the lesson, hard won as it will be. I accept whatever lessons may come, Ms. Ember. Pain is expected. And disappointment. And doubt. And loss. I won't live in fear of these, but I do proceed with eyes open.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3786	Posted - 2017.05.20 23:30:41 - [325] - Quote Gaven Lok'ri wrote: Your understanding of fine beverage technologies of production seems to be several millennia out of date. But that is neither here nor there and we are certainly far off topic at this point. I would apologize to the original poster for the derailment if she weren't a Sani Sabik cultist. Just going out on a limb here, but 'your grasp of technology is millennia out of date'... when discussing a thousand-tear old whiskey... ironic, no? You're right about the off-topic nature of it, though! et voila!
Gaven Lok'ri PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 660	Posted - 2017.05.20 23:52:32 - [326] - Quote Not exactly ironic, since I was talking about a millennium old beverage, while your understanding of the limitations of alcohol production reads like something written well before the moral reforms, hence the plural. Admiral of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Divine Commodore 24th Imperial Crusade Holder. Vassal of the Emperor Family
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3787	Posted - 2017.05.21 01:56:07 - [327] - Quote It's really less about the 'limitations of alcohol processing', and more about the fact that how you make it is what makes a whiskey, especially any of the bourbon varieties. Once you change that... you're not making the same thing anymore. It would be like calling a malt a beer.
Gaven Lok'ri PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 661	Posted - 2017.05.21 02:02:16 - [328] - Quote Arrendis wrote: It's really less about the 'limitations of alcohol processing', and more about the fact that how you make it is what makes a whiskey, especially any of the bourbon varieties. Once you change that... you're not making the same thing anymore. It would be like calling a malt a beer. Indeed, hence the comment that Cognac was a bad translation. I can guarantee you that a Lok'ri Estate Ancient is a drink that cannot be created or surpassed in less than a millennium. And I wouldn't touch whiskey or bourbon with a fifty foot pole. I own vineyards, not wheat or corn fields. Admiral of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Divine Commodore 24th Imperial Crusade Holder. Vassal of the Emperor Family
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3787	Posted - 2017.05.21 02:39:18 - [329] - Quote Gaven Lok'ri wrote: Indeed, hence the comment that Cognac was a bad translation. I can guarantee you that a Lok'ri Estate Ancient is a drink that cannot be created or surpassed in less than a millennium. And I wouldn't touch whiskey or bourbon with a fifty foot pole. I own vineyards, not wheat or corn fields. The same general statement can be said of brandies, too. But as you say, cognac was a bad translation.
Gaven Lok'ri PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 662	Posted - 2017.05.21 03:23:38 - [330] - Quote Indeed, though a Lok'ri Ancient is an aged distillation from grapes, which Is why the translation goes with "Cognac." The fact that Amarr distillers have figured out how to take advantage of a significantly longer aging period is part of why our products are unmatched. Admiral of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Divine Commodore 24th Imperial Crusade Holder. Vassal of the Emperor Family

Mizhara Del'thul Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 1885	Posted - 2017.05.21 03:47:01 - [331] - Quote Someone's never tried a snifter of engine degreaser. A cheeky little vintage dating back to night before last, aged nicely in an oil pan. Mmm. That fragrant aroma you get a hint off before it shuts down your olfactory senses, that lovely complexity of flavors you'd surely explore with joy if you weren't too busy fighting off both your survival instincts and gag reflexes to notice. Pairs wonderfully with solvent fumes, I hear. On a serious note, the Gripdjur aren't exactly famed for the distilleries, but I'll pit our clan brew - be it beer or meads - against your equivalents any time. The blend of old rediscovered craftsmanship with the finest Sebiestor engineering on the continent (bloody come at me, Elsebeth) and what may as well be eldritch sorcery from the nanotech and microbiology scientists has yet to be matched.
Aria Jenneth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 3908	Posted - 2017.05.21 06:24:43 - [332] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: On a serious note, the Gripdjur aren't exactly famed for the distilleries, but I'll pit our clan brew - be it beer or meads - against your equivalents any time. The blend of old rediscovered craftsmanship with the finest Sebiestor engineering on the continent (bloody come at me, Elsebeth) and what may as well be eldritch sorcery from the nanotech and microbiology scientists has yet to be matched. Even leaving out rediscovered craftsmanship, it seems a little likely that pretty much everything the Amarr knew about brewing, the Matari now also know. Probably the opposite is sometimes also true, but it seems like that might only be in a few places...?
Gaven Lok'ri PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 664	Posted - 2017.05.21 06:26:00 - [333] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: Someone's never tried a snifter of engine degreaser. A cheeky little vintage dating back to night before last, aged nicely in an oil pan. Mmm. That fragrant aroma you get a hint off before it shuts down your olfactory senses, that lovely complexity of flavors you'd surely explore with joy if you weren't too busy fighting off both your survival instincts and gag reflexes to notice. Pairs wonderfully with solvent fumes, I hear. On a serious note, the Gripdjur aren't exactly famed for the distilleries, but I'll pit our clan brew - be it beer or meads - against your equivalents any time. The blend of old rediscovered craftsmanship with the finest Sebiestor engineering on the continent (bloody come at me, Elsebeth) and what may as well be eldritch sorcery from the nanotech and microbiology scientists has yet to be matched. "Beer or meads" is all I need to hear to know that the Lok'ri Orisian estates are an order of magnitude or three better quality booze than the nonsense you are describing. A taste of Lok'ri Extra Ancient and you will never want to touch a grain or honey based drink again. Admiral of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Divine Commodore 24th Imperial Crusade Holder. Vassal of the Emperor Family
Aria Jenneth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 3908	Posted - 2017.05.21 06:30:30 - [334] - Quote Miz? My lord? Maybe it would be interesting to have a battle between Amarr and Matari nobody has to die at? (... unless it's of alcohol poisoning ...) Pretty sure it's a subject that'd inspire wide interest, and not just from the usual parties.
Valerie Valate Church of The Crimson Saviour Sani-Sabik 2198	Posted - 2017.05.21 09:15:26 - [335] - Quote You punks miss the whole idea of thousand-year-old alcoholic beverages. The point is not that it tastes good, or is super strong, or whatever, because it probably isn't. The point is that it is irreplaceable, and demonstrates that the owner has the wealth and prestige, to be able to afford a beverage storage room large enough and well-engineered enough, to be able to keep beverage bottles and barrels in drinkable condition for thousands of years. It's like wearing a dress that pre-dates Amarr space travel. it probably won't flatter your figure, or look particularly fancy, but the point is that you own it, demonstrating a level of wealth and prestige that puts social upstarts in their place. "Oh, my dress is older than your Holding", and so on. Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3791	Posted - 2017.05.21 10:14:53 - [336] - Quote Gaven Lok'ri wrote: "Beer or meads" is all I need to hear to know that the Lok'ri Orisian estates are an order of magnitude or three better quality booze than the nonsense you are describing. A taste of Lok'ri Extra Ancient and you will never want to touch a grain or honey based drink again. Well, I'd offer you some Hug Juice, but I don't really think you can handle the sheer amazingness of it. I brought a jug to the Order of Jamyl fortizar in Safiron once, but none of the three Amarr in the room (Mitara, Aldrith, and Lyse) had the courage to try. It's not Mizhara's engine degreaser... but it is illegal in all four empires for internal consumption. We make it on Huggar station, and last I checked, it's marketed as an industrial cleanser. So there are similarities... though of course, we age Hug Juice very carefully for six weeks in the finest handcrafted bilge pump outflow tanks.
Haru'kai Vidaraltyr Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 34	Posted - 2017.05.21 10:17:13 - [337] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: On a serious note, the Gripdjur aren't exactly famed for the distilleries, but I'll pit our clan brew - be it beer or meads - against your equivalents any time. The blend of old rediscovered craftsmanship with the finest Sebiestor engineering on the continent (bloody come at me, Elsebeth) and what may as well be eldritch sorcery from the nanotech and microbiology scientists has yet to be matched. Have you tried araka? The quick fermentation of milk from the single-toed ungulates found on the edge of the north Sobaki (tabuni in our dialect - I think the nearest common-experience species is horse) results in a mild, very social beer-like concoction. It has lots of names - among the Vidaraltyr it's known as tsegee. Takes about a day, depending on the length of the ride (the milk is put in tabuni skins, slung over the saddle and the motion swills the drink around so it ferments rather than coagulates. If you ride like a warrior, you end the day with alcoholic pleasure for the camp fires. If you ride like a farmer, you get butter). The elders of the clan have the right and knowledge to distill this into araka, a very much more fiery beverage that requires a sharp winter and quite some courage. The name is reputed to be onomatopoeic in origin, being the hacking, coughing sound the newly initiated make on first consumption. Like most good booze, it gets smoother the more you drink. Unlike tsegee, it travels very well and when our clan began to trade across the seas, the drink became almost mystical. It also helped significantly in 'enhancing' trade deals with the Brutor of the Mioar islands, so the gift of a bottle is seen as a very generous blessing for a colleague or kinsman. The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3792	Posted - 2017.05.21 10:25:53 - [338] - Quote Valerie Valate wrote: You punks miss the whole idea of thousand-year-old alcoholic beverages. The point is not that it tastes good, or is super strong, or whatever, because it probably isn't. The point is that it is irreplaceable, and demonstrates that the owner has the wealth and prestige, to be able to afford a beverage storage room large enough and well-engineered enough, to be able to keep beverage bottles and barrels in drinkable condition for thousands of years. Eh, if I wanna get pretentious like that, a thousand-year beverage is nothing. I can head on down to any of a hundred fat asteroids within a few jumps of me and drink four-billion-year-old water. Complete with natural minerals and painstakingly left completely unspoiled by the touch of modern technology. It's preserved exactly the way our ancestors swam in it when they were fish. We Matari even have a special word for the special, ultra-traditional blend of life-sustaining fluid and precise minerals, carefully stored in the original packaging since before life as we know it existed! We call it "Dirty". Dirty WaterGäó! The ultimate beverage for snooty people who think something is amazingly valuable just because it's old enough that it probably should've been reprocessed for the component atoms several times over now. GET YOURS TODAY! Dirty WaterGäó is a Registered Trademark of Yeah I Went There LLC d/b/a Whatcha Got To Say About That?, a wholly-owned subsidiary of Matari Smartassery Inc, Patent Pending.
Che Biko Alexylva Paradox 995	Posted - 2017.05.21 13:05:04 - [339] - Quote Halcyon Ember wrote: [..]Or that he's been staring longingly into the eyes of Aria's portrait. I can't really fault him for that. And I'm sure there's worse things he could be doing. Coordination Channel for Consolidated Space Rescue Cooperation Open Letter to the Aidonis Foundation Directorate
Elmund Egivand Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 2392	Posted - 2017.05.22 01:43:16 - [340] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Gaven Lok'ri wrote: "Beer or meads" is all I need to hear to know that the Lok'ri Orisian estates are an order of magnitude or three better quality booze than the nonsense you are describing. A taste of Lok'ri Extra Ancient and you will never want to touch a grain or honey based drink again. Well, I'd offer you some Hug Juice, but I don't really think you can handle the sheer amazingness of it. I brought a jug to the Order of Jamyl fortizar in Safiron once, but none of the three Amarr in the room (Mitara, Aldrith, and Lyse) had the courage to try. It's not Mizhara's engine degreaser... but it is illegal in all four empires for internal consumption. We make it on Huggar station, and last I checked, it's marketed as an industrial cleanser. So there are similarities... though of course, we age Hug Juice very carefully for six weeks in the finest handcrafted bilge pump outflow tanks. There's always this brew that tastes like anti-freeze with some hops in it during the Winter Solstice festival. Yes, I had tasted actual anti-freeze before, and before you ask, I didn't chug the whole thing down. A couple drops touched my lips, that's all. What my Clan is actually obsessed with, however, is coffee. We have this one portion in Hydroponics specifically dedicated to coffee and, funnily enough, one of my assignments for the Clan beyond the occasional shipments of off-world materials and being around looking frumpy during negotiations, is to catalogue coffee. However, I hadn't really been diligent at this. A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3826	Posted - 2017.05.22 02:29:10 - [341] - Quote Eh, coffee's just a placebo for self-destructive behavior, anyway.
Elmund Egivand Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 2394	Posted - 2017.05.22 06:29:15 - [342] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Eh, coffee's just a placebo for self-destructive behavior, anyway. If you consider pulling all-nighters for days at end to be self-destructive, yes. A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Loai Qerl Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 315	Posted - 2017.05.22 19:34:46 - [343] - Quote Today has gone from a very nice day to a day to hide in your pod and cry until it puts things in the goo or whatever to calm you down again. I know I'm not the only one who does that. Admit it.
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 337	Posted - 2017.05.22 20:08:56 - [344] - Quote Loai Qerl wrote: Today has gone from a very nice day to a day to hide in your pod and cry until it puts things in the goo or whatever to calm you down again. I know I'm not the only one who does that. Admit it. I'm sorry to hear that Lorl. You should stop by sometime and have some chocolate
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3841	Posted - 2017.05.22 20:23:04 - [345] - Quote Elmund Egivand wrote: Arrendis wrote: Eh, coffee's just a placebo for self-destructive behavior, anyway. If you consider pulling all-nighters for days at end to be self-destructive, yes. No, actually... see, here's the thing: coffee, as normally prepared, is extremely bitter. That's because of which chemical receptors in the mouth and on the tongue coffee triggers and interacts with. Those specific chemical receptors are read by the brain as 'THIS IS BAD'... because that's actually why they're there. Most extremely bitter natural compounds are highly toxic. So we've got taste buds that interact with them expressly so the brain can go 'this is poison!' So, when we drink coffee, there's a level of 'this is poison!' going on in the back of the brain. But we know, consciously, that coffee's safe to drink (it's actually not, especially for the young, but only in the same way the arsenic in apple seeds if technically not safe). As a result, there's a kind of mental clash between the conscious mind and the lower-order processing that basically places coffee-drinking in the same experiential category as... well... any inherently dangerous behavior that still triggers (as coffee's smell and caffeine both do) positive brain-reactions that result in a release of dopamine. Coffee is literally a placebo for high-risk self-destructive behavior. It fools the brain into that same chemical chain of 'I'M DEFYING DEATH!!!' experience.
Aria Jenneth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 3918	Posted - 2017.05.22 21:10:48 - [346] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Coffee is literally a placebo for high-risk self-destructive behavior. It fools the brain into that same chemical chain of 'I'M DEFYING DEATH!!!' experience. Only, under that analysis, can't basically any spice be described the same way? We take stuff that's evolved a defensive characteristic that makes it taste bad (only, I think, not necessarily poison-like, but really really strong?) or causes inflamation (hot peppers, for example), and used them to make food more interesting. I don't think you get the same kind of buzz out of those as out of, for example, eating a kind of fish that'll do you right in if you don't prepare it just so?
Ria Nieyli Amok. Goonswarm Federation 50652	Posted - 2017.05.22 21:13:25 - [347] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Elmund Egivand wrote: Arrendis wrote: Eh, coffee's just a placebo for self-destructive behavior, anyway. If you consider pulling all-nighters for days at end to be self-destructive, yes. No, actually... see, here's the thing: coffee, as normally prepared, is extremely bitter. That's because of which chemical receptors in the mouth and on the tongue coffee triggers and interacts with. Those specific chemical receptors are read by the brain as 'THIS IS BAD'... because that's actually why they're there. Most extremely bitter natural compounds are highly toxic. So we've got taste buds that interact with them expressly so the brain can go 'this is poison!' So, when we drink coffee, there's a level of 'this is poison!' going on in the back of the brain. But we know, consciously, that coffee's safe to drink (it's actually not, especially for the young, but only in the same way the arsenic in apple seeds if technically not safe). As a result, there's a kind of mental clash between the conscious mind and the lower-order processing that basically places coffee-drinking in the same experiential category as... well... any inherently dangerous behavior that still triggers (as coffee's smell and caffeine both do) positive brain-reactions that result in a release of dopamine. Coffee is literally a placebo for high-risk self-destructive behavior. It fools the brain into that same chemical chain of 'I'M DEFYING DEATH!!!' experience. Why is clean air tasteless them? The oxygen in it is slowly setting your lungs on fire, doesn't get much worse than that.
Elmund Egivand Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 2403	Posted - 2017.05.23 01:32:33 - [348] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Elmund Egivand wrote: Arrendis wrote: Eh, coffee's just a placebo for self-destructive behavior, anyway. If you consider pulling all-nighters for days at end to be self-destructive, yes. No, actually... see, here's the thing: coffee, as normally prepared, is extremely bitter. That's because of which chemical receptors in the mouth and on the tongue coffee triggers and interacts with. Those specific chemical receptors are read by the brain as 'THIS IS BAD'... because that's actually why they're there. Most extremely bitter natural compounds are highly toxic. So we've got taste buds that interact with them expressly so the brain can go 'this is poison!' So, when we drink coffee, there's a level of 'this is poison!' going on in the back of the brain. But we know, consciously, that coffee's safe to drink (it's actually not, especially for the young, but only in the same way the arsenic in apple seeds if technically not safe). As a result, there's a kind of mental clash between the conscious mind and the lower-order processing that basically places coffee-drinking in the same experiential category as... well... any inherently dangerous behavior that still triggers (as coffee's smell and caffeine both do) positive brain-reactions that result in a release of dopamine. Coffee is literally a placebo for high-risk self-destructive behavior. It fools the brain into that same chemical chain of 'I'M DEFYING DEATH!!!' experience. You do realise that there is more to coffee than just extreme bitterness and extreme wakefulness, right? A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3860	Posted - 2017.05.23 01:36:14 - [349] - Quote Elmund Egivand wrote: You do realise that there is more to coffee than just extreme bitterness and extreme wakefulness, right? I do! But those two elements (Well, the bitterness, really, the caffeine's just a contributing factor) are the crux of the 'stand-in for self-destruction'.
Elmund Egivand Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 2404	Posted - 2017.05.23 01:57:51 - [350] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Elmund Egivand wrote: You do realise that there is more to coffee than just extreme bitterness and extreme wakefulness, right? I do! But those two elements (Well, the bitterness, really, the caffeine's just a contributing factor) are the crux of the 'stand-in for self-destruction'. You might also want to recall that some of us really hate the bitterness and proceed to practically drown the thing in sugar and creamer. Though screw that, I like mine black, to ensure I could actually taste the subtle flavours and smell the aroma. A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3862	Posted - 2017.05.23 02:22:39 - [351] - Quote Elmund Egivand wrote: You might also want to recall that some of us really hate the bitterness and proceed to practically drown the thing in sugar and creamer. Sure, but that's the funny thing about chemical receptors like taste buds: you can mask the bitterness, and you can make sure the amount of noise from the sugar and creamer overwhelms the conscious mind's ability to pick up on the signal of 'bitter!', but you can't block the taste. Those chemical receptors still get triggered, and the lower-order functions of the brain aren't fooled.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3867	Posted - 2017.05.23 13:51:34 - [352] - Quote And continuing the culinary vein... Casserina Leshrac wrote: Valerie Valate wrote: Bloody war of the Blood Age of Blood day 1.9 log Operation Cheese Sandwich Debriefing A Cheese sandwich was consumed. The sandwich consisted of 3 slices of bread with two slices of cheese. It was quite good. Two quick questions. What kind of cheese? And what kind of bread? Very important questions. There's also the issue of if it was a 'normal' cheese sandwich or a grilled cheese. Of course, she's already got the balance completely off with the extra wad of empty carbs in the middle, but maybe the cheese slices were each 5mm thick...
Jev North Anshar Incorporated Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group 1006	Posted - 2017.05.23 15:42:17 - [353] - Quote Just remember to dip in ketchup as you eat to keep your Blooder cred. Even though our love is cruel; even though our stars are crossed.
Casserina Leshrac Sanguine Illuminations 201	Posted - 2017.05.23 16:53:39 - [354] - Quote Jev North wrote: Just remember to dip in ketchup as you eat to keep your Blooder cred. Better with a Tomato Bisque I think. *We stand at the Abyss, drawing the Patterns of Fate - Casserina Leshrac, Savant, Sani Sabik.*
Casserina Leshrac Sanguine Illuminations 201	Posted - 2017.05.23 16:54:57 - [355] - Quote Arrendis wrote: And continuing the culinary vein... Casserina Leshrac wrote: Valerie Valate wrote: Bloody war of the Blood Age of Blood day 1.9 log Operation Cheese Sandwich Debriefing A Cheese sandwich was consumed. The sandwich consisted of 3 slices of bread with two slices of cheese. It was quite good. Two quick questions. What kind of cheese? And what kind of bread? Very important questions. There's also the issue of if it was a 'normal' cheese sandwich or a grilled cheese. Of course, she's already got the balance completely off with the extra wad of empty carbs in the middle, but maybe the cheese slices were each 5mm thick... Hence the question about the cheese and the bread. And now was is one type of cheese or two. A cheese sandwich is a complex issue. *We stand at the Abyss, drawing the Patterns of Fate - Casserina Leshrac, Savant, Sani Sabik.*
Valerie Valate Church of The Crimson Saviour Sani-Sabik 2219	Posted - 2017.05.23 17:09:00 - [356] - Quote Arrendis wrote: And continuing the culinary vein... Casserina Leshrac wrote: Valerie Valate wrote: Bloody war of the Blood Age of Blood day 1.9 log Operation Cheese Sandwich Debriefing A Cheese sandwich was consumed. The sandwich consisted of 3 slices of bread with two slices of cheese. It was quite good. Two quick questions. What kind of cheese? And what kind of bread? Very important questions. There's also the issue of if it was a 'normal' cheese sandwich or a grilled cheese. Of course, she's already got the balance completely off with the extra wad of empty carbs in the middle, but maybe the cheese slices were each 5mm thick... OPSEC Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Casserina Leshrac Sanguine Illuminations 204	Posted - 2017.05.23 17:36:31 - [357] - Quote I hate when that happens. *We stand at the Abyss, drawing the Patterns of Fate - Casserina Leshrac, Savant, Sani Sabik.*
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3869	Posted - 2017.05.23 18:33:13 - [358] - Quote Alright then, I'll just have to review the miniluv kill logs to see which types of cheese have been getting shipped in that direction.
Neph Crimson Serpent Syndicate Heiian Conglomerate 785	Posted - 2017.05.23 22:48:59 - [359] - Quote ((@kul Shaishi: Sorry to bring it up again if somebody's already mentioned it, but: I just read through Nauppy's latest thread. We get it. You like your modern Chinese history. It doesn't belong in Eve RP.)) ~ Gariushi YC110 // Midular YC115 // Yanala YC115 ~ "Orte Jaitovalte sitasuyti ne obuetsa useuut ishu. Ketsiak ishiulyn." -Yakiya Tovil-Toba-taisoka
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3882	Posted - 2017.05.24 04:08:06 - [360] - Quote Silas Vitalia wrote: That's rich talk about ego from someone with what, six different titles after their name? Actually, those aren't titles. She had her name legally changed to all that. It's why they call it a 'Long-form certificate'

Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 350	Posted - 2017.05.24 10:50:51 - [361] - Quote Mebrithiel Ju'wien wrote: If you even ticked any of those boxes, I might have liked yours... Jason Galente does not tick Mebrithiel's boxes
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3883	Posted - 2017.05.24 10:59:34 - [362] - Quote The real question is: who ticks his?
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 350	Posted - 2017.05.24 11:18:41 - [363] - Quote I heard he's married? So, depending on your views on marriage...no one?
Ria Nieyli Amok. Goonswarm Federation 50679	Posted - 2017.05.24 23:12:22 - [364] - Quote Is kul Shaishi stalking me?
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3898	Posted - 2017.05.24 23:37:45 - [365] - Quote Ain't just you.
Ria Nieyli Amok. Goonswarm Federation 50680	Posted - 2017.05.25 01:09:32 - [366] - Quote I don't know how to take this.
Elmund Egivand Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 2410	Posted - 2017.05.25 01:10:35 - [367] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: I don't know how to take this. Thank her for the 'likes' and be on your way, I suppose? A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Aradina Varren Alexylva Paradox 142	Posted - 2017.05.25 04:21:54 - [368] - Quote I thought I was the only one to notice. Feels Pretty Soft to Me.
Valerie Valate Church of The Crimson Saviour Sani-Sabik 2236	Posted - 2017.05.25 05:01:03 - [369] - Quote Aradina Varren wrote: I thought I was the only one to notice. Well, you thought wrong, didn't you ? Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Ria Nieyli Amok. Goonswarm Federation 50681	Posted - 2017.05.25 05:47:44 - [370] - Quote Halcyon Ember wrote: I heard he's married? So, depending on your views on marriage...no one? I don't know, pegging is a thing.

Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 357	Posted - 2017.05.25 08:25:15 - [371] - Quote Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote: Wait, I just defended PIE Inc on the IGS? This seems...serious
Mizhir TURN LEFT HYDRA RELOADED 75352	Posted - 2017.05.25 10:25:37 - [372] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Mizhara Del'thul wrote: Now now, don't be disingenuous. She doesn't charge. Now who's getting petty? You two. Get a room. Or a sack. Death rides a fast C4mel
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3917	Posted - 2017.05.25 13:34:57 - [373] - Quote Mizhir wrote: You two. Get a room. Or a sack. Really do hate to burst everyone's bubble, but been there, almost did that. And all things considered, I somehow doubt someone in my position getting involved with someone with her affiliations would be encouraged. Sorry. You guys will just have to keep writing the slash-fic.
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 359	Posted - 2017.05.25 13:47:51 - [374] - Quote Arrendis wrote: You guys will just have to keep writing the slash-fic. Still waiting on that Polevhia/Merin slashfic
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 1008	Posted - 2017.05.25 17:46:39 - [375] - Quote Let's not go down this avenue.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3924	Posted - 2017.05.25 18:09:11 - [376] - Quote Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote: Let's not go down this avenue. Can we go down the Crystalline Boulevard? I hear it's a massive military bunker, cleverly concealed with decadence and hedonism, and that sounds like a great setting for some this stuff.
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 362	Posted - 2017.05.25 19:25:18 - [377] - Quote Laconic nation pilot meets hard bitten mercenary with a tendency for inappropriate humour on Crystal Boulevarde? The pair find themselves sharing a pastry in an odd scene of camaraderie that leads to them finding comfort in one another's arms, if only for a night?
Blade Darth Room for Improvement Limited Expectations 183	Posted - 2017.05.25 19:43:00 - [378] - Quote Will they tickle each others boxes too? Omen Navy Issue Tutorial
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 362	Posted - 2017.05.25 19:45:14 - [379] - Quote We won't know until it is written
Mizhara Del'thul Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 1938	Posted - 2017.05.25 19:47:00 - [380] - Quote dafuq

Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3925	Posted - 2017.05.25 20:11:26 - [381] - Quote I dunno, I was angling for a 'gunfights in the streets around the hoi polloi.' kind of thriller piece, but there guys are just weird.
Ria Nieyli Amok. Goonswarm Federation 50686	Posted - 2017.05.25 20:19:15 - [382] - Quote Halcyon Ember wrote: Laconic nation pilot meets hard bitten mercenary with a tendency for inappropriate humour on Crystal Boulevarde? The pair find themselves sharing a pastry in an odd scene of camaraderie that leads to them finding comfort in one another's arms, if only for a night? Oh my god...
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 362	Posted - 2017.05.25 20:20:35 - [383] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: Halcyon Ember wrote: Laconic nation pilot meets hard bitten mercenary with a tendency for inappropriate humour on Crystal Boulevarde? The pair find themselves sharing a pastry in an odd scene of camaraderie that leads to them finding comfort in one another's arms, if only for a night? Oh my god... You're excited, no?
Ria Nieyli Amok. Goonswarm Federation 50686	Posted - 2017.05.25 20:23:51 - [384] - Quote No.
Kasuko Merin Anshar Incorporated Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group 25	Posted - 2017.05.25 20:26:42 - [385] - Quote Down With This Sort Of Thing. It was worth it. All of it. Every single second.
kul Shaishi Yurai-Tenshin Zaibatsu 29	Posted - 2017.05.26 04:20:51 - [386] - Quote The battle of Caldari Prime ended up as Caldari political victory do the fact they control is sligh tmajority of the planet and The culturally important cities of Arcurio and Tovil.
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 367	Posted - 2017.05.26 09:20:43 - [387] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: Throwing money at a screw-up to make a problem go away is not 'being responsible'. That is being irresponsibly delinquent in their duty to expose the failure points in the system that allowed the event to occur in the first place, and ensuring that they are rectified in order to avoid such failure in the future. Taking responsibility is being responsible. Refuting it and undoubtedly lying through their teeth is most certainly not. If you can't see what the benefit is in acknowledging failure in order to rectify it, you're seriously short-sighted. That burning feeling again...
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3957	Posted - 2017.05.26 17:00:13 - [388] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: Along with that other new kid apparently having significant ties to both the Goons and Blooders Mr. 'Are you at war with the cornfields'? Nah, he's got no ties to us that I can find. I suspect his connections lie more in the direction of NC. If he was attached to PL, he'd have more balls and get things wrong less often.
Mizhara Del'thul Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 1951	Posted - 2017.05.26 17:02:28 - [389] - Quote I don't think NancyDotte have fallen that low on quality control. They'd be a damn sight less effective if that was the case. I suspect a simple case of pretense and/or stupidity is the phenomenon dejour.
Aria Jenneth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 3926	Posted - 2017.05.26 17:27:28 - [390] - Quote He does seem to be trying awfully hard to impress people. AEther Galatia wrote: Aria Jenneth wrote: AEther Galatia wrote: Arrendis wrote: Graelyn wrote: When your enemy falls and screams "Now I'm STRONGER", then you've hit brainstem. Yup. Totally. Trust the platitudes, not the actual data, your Holiness. Wonder who made you write this? (quoted in case you edit it.) Ironic use of a title is still use of a title. But also still ironic. Especially when it's the wrong title. (A cardinal is properly addressed as, "your Eminence," I think.) Thanks. That is very wise of you and was my point but I did not say it directly. There's ... no way that makes sense. Like, at all.

Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3960	Posted - 2017.05.26 17:30:46 - [391] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: I don't think NancyDotte have fallen that low on quality control. I dunno, Vince is still there.
Che Biko Alexylva Paradox 1015	Posted - 2017.05.27 11:11:39 - [392] - Quote Lasairiona Raske wrote: Makoto Priano wrote: Funk alternated between wanting to bear Nauplius's lovechild, and wanting to flay him. Perhaps both? I really don't know what passes for romance in those circles. This is kinda one of the best things I've read on here in a while. ****, I need to step up my posting quality. Edit: Or post more often? Coordination Channel for Consolidated Space Rescue Cooperation Open Letter to the Aidonis Foundation Directorate
Graelyn Akagi Initiative Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 1112	Posted - 2017.05.27 12:42:57 - [393] - Quote I don't think this thread will win anyone any medals. Cardinal Graelyn Imperial Liaison, I-RED Amarr Loyalist of the Year - YC113
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 377	Posted - 2017.05.27 13:07:54 - [394] - Quote Graelyn wrote: I don't think this thread will win anyone any medals. Such pessimism, aren't you old enough to have circled back to optimistic, yet?
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 4032	Posted - 2017.05.27 18:52:42 - [395] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: Their industrial and financial power is now significantly improved, and it's even possible - although unproven as that Sotiyo kill showed - that they can and will undock something other than interceptor fleets these days. What did you think of our interceptors in Gehi last night? Noticed your Loki survived.
Mizhara Del'thul Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 1988	Posted - 2017.05.27 19:04:43 - [396] - Quote They were honestly kind of underwhelming given the numbers. Getting out of the fight with pretty much equal efficiency when outnumbered two to one (+ super blob, mixed as it may have been) honestly shouldn't happen. Especially when a good quarter of that 'one' are just there to third party independently. Basically, how can so many with so much do so very little? Not impressive, Arrendis.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 4032	Posted - 2017.05.27 19:11:12 - [397] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: They were honestly kind of underwhelming given the numbers. Getting out of the fight with pretty much equal efficiency when outnumbered two to one (+ super blob, mixed as it may have been) honestly shouldn't happen. Especially when a good quarter of that 'one' are just there to third party independently. Basically, how can so many with so much do so very little? Not impressive, Arrendis. Heh. Now you're back to ISK efficiency? C'mon, Miz, you know ISK efficiency is meaningless. The objectivie is all.
Mizhara Del'thul Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 1988	Posted - 2017.05.27 19:17:27 - [398] - Quote ISK efficiency is not the priority, but combat efficiency is. If it takes you twice the numbers plus a super blob to achieve equal combat efficiency and getting the objective, it speaks rather ill of the group in question. Numbers is a quality of its own, of course, but when it's the only saving grace of an encounter you have problems that need solving. Smugposting is earned, Arrendis, and that means bringing more qualities to the table than just numbers. Your objective was rather meaningless to us third parties, after all.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 4032	Posted - 2017.05.27 19:41:23 - [399] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: Your objective was rather meaningless to us third parties, after all. Third party. Riiiiight.
Mizhara Del'thul Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 1988	Posted - 2017.05.27 19:44:11 - [400] - Quote I dearly hope you're not calling me a liar. We had no objective nor contract in Gehi, only an opportunity to join in on a fight. Should I start saving documentation on op announcements for you, if you have decided to start questioning the veracity of my word?

Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 4034	Posted - 2017.05.27 19:57:49 - [401] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: I dearly hope you're not calling me a liar. We had no objective nor contract in Gehi, only an opportunity to join in on a fight. Should I start saving documentation on op announcements for you, if you have decided to start questioning the veracity of my word? I'm not saying you're a liar. But it's certainly possible someone's not telling you everything. Tell me the next time you shoot at NC. during these 'third party' ops.
Mizhara Del'thul Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 1988	Posted - 2017.05.27 20:05:54 - [402] - Quote Why the hell would we shoot at friends during third party ops? It's not bloody rocket surgery, woman. A timer goes up, this knowledge spreads through various organizations - especially friendly ones - and a party happens. Not everything is cloak and dagger skullduggery, you know. Feh, you disappoint. Or perhaps more accurately, I keep forgetting and being reminded about what kind of dishonest mindset you people cultivate.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 4034	Posted - 2017.05.27 20:09:51 - [403] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: Why the hell would we shoot at friends during third party ops? If you're coming in on one side or another, Miz, you're not a third party, you're reinforcements.
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 1032	Posted - 2017.05.27 20:39:12 - [404] - Quote Now this is what I was looking for. Keep on going, sisters.
Mizhara Del'thul Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 1992	Posted - 2017.05.27 20:54:36 - [405] - Quote We're mercenaries, Arrendis. When we're reinforcements, we get paid. If you'd settled for trying to claim a batphone or something like that I could have let it slide as 'close enough' kind of thing, but I guess you can't get the ~twisty narrative~ out of the goon. Every damned time I think you've grown past it, you decide to utterly mangle any confidence I had in your honesty. Don't throw out the 'sisters' quite that easily, Elsebeth. There is nothing familiar in play here.
Valerie Valate Church of The Crimson Saviour Sani-Sabik 2270	Posted - 2017.05.27 20:56:39 - [406] - Quote if you were shooting both involved sides, you're a third party. if you were shooting one, but not the other, you're reinforcing one side. if you were shooting one more than the other, you're reinforcements attempting to maintain a charade of being third party. Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 4043	Posted - 2017.05.27 21:10:29 - [407] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: We're mercenaries, Arrendis. When we're reinforcements, we get paid. No, see, when you get paid, then you're mercenaries. When you come in on a fight on one side for free, and choose your sides consistently because 'those are our friends', you're allies. In both situations, you're reinforcements. If you come into the fight and you're settled on being on one side of it, that's not being a 'third party'. You're part of one of the first two parties. That's not narrative. That's picking a side. A third party is on their own side, and may shoot either of the first two.
Mizhara Del'thul Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 1992	Posted - 2017.05.27 21:19:03 - [408] - Quote Your intentionally loose and slapdash definitions are of little interest to me. If I consistently shoot Bleeders over Imperials, or over State forces or over Feds or whatever else, it does not make me an ally of any of them. Even friendly relations does not mean being an ally, as Circle of Two discovered up in Tribute. It simply means, "we don't shoot you". An ally on the other hand can expect our swift and steadfast support. If everyone who shoots you are 'allies' simply because they enjoy shooting you over each other, then is there anyone in New Eden that isn't 'allied' against you? Perhaps you should work more on getting your forces to fight commensurate to your numbers and assets instead of trying to dictate what we are, and what our objectives are.
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 1033	Posted - 2017.05.27 21:27:37 - [409] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: Don't throw out the 'sisters' quite that easily, Elsebeth. There is nothing familiar in play here. I apologize for the excess familiarity. No offense meant. That said, I have to say my definitions are a little bit the same as the above: - if you do not care which side wins, you are a third party - if you come in in the aid of one party, you are reinforcements - if you come in to aid because you like one party better than the other, then you are reinforcements that are friends - if you come in to aid because you have a pre-existing understanding that you will in such a situation, you are allied reinforcements - if you come in to aid because you got paid for it (either in isk or other benefits) you are mercenary reinforcements The last three cases are not mutually exclusive.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 4044	Posted - 2017.05.27 21:28:28 - [410] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: Your intentionally loose and slapdash definitions Are nothing of the sort, and you know it. I can't help it if you don't like the truth. Quote: If I consistently shoot Bleeders over Imperials, or over State forces or over Feds or whatever else, it does not make me an ally of any of them. If you do it consistently, if, regardless of the odds or the situation, you side with the Imperials over the Blooders, then you are an ally of the Imperials where the Blooders are concerned. If you consistently shoot the State over the Fed, regardless of the situation or the odds, then you are an ally of the State when the Federation is involved. A 'third party' would evaluate each fight and make different decisions based on the situations that present themselves. Quote: An ally on the other hand can expect our swift and steadfast support. Like I said: Next time you ever shoot NCdot, regardless of us being there, you let me know. Next time you fail to show up when they tell you to, let me know.

Mizhara Del'thul Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 1992	Posted - 2017.05.27 21:34:30 - [411] - Quote When they tell us to? Congratulations, you just went from disingenuous to an outright ****. Why I ever thought you capable of more than this, I will never know.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 4044	Posted - 2017.05.27 21:40:04 - [412] - Quote Well, that's certainly what it looks like from here. And you've said multiple times you're not privy to the higher-level communications and decision-making in your alliance. But ok, I can go with 'ask you to' instead if that makes you feel better. Not that that has anything to do with whether or not you're actual third parties. Noticed you didn't have much comment on what looks like more than just my take on things, though.
Che Biko Alexylva Paradox 1029	Posted - 2017.05.29 15:57:54 - [413] - Quote Ayallah wrote: The differences only matter to them and scholars. You can consider [Blood Raiders and Sani Sabik] the same and kill them the same. Thank you for calling me a scholar, I guess? And no, you can't consider them the same. You really can't. Coordination Channel for Consolidated Space Rescue Cooperation Open Letter to the Aidonis Foundation Directorate
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 403	Posted - 2017.05.30 09:33:20 - [414] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Jason Galente wrote: See also: why I never believe anything Lyris Nairn tells me, full stop. Lyris is gone. She got out of the biz, extracted all her combat and industrial skills. I miss Lyris. She was polite.
Che Biko Alexylva Paradox 1033	Posted - 2017.05.30 12:34:00 - [415] - Quote Saccade Amir wrote: Le style, c'est moi. Gods and spirits, you weren't kidding. Coordination Channel for Consolidated Space Rescue Cooperation Open Letter to the Aidonis Foundation Directorate
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 422	Posted - 2017.05.31 13:23:50 - [416] - Quote Aria Jenneth wrote: Fabuleux wrote: Fabuleux believes that Capsuleers are the true gods. Gods Fabuleux does not pray too, just know that exsit and can either be bringers of peace and prosperity or death and destruction. As for the afterlife? Fabuleux is uncertain if there really is one? How does anyone know? Has anyone returned from the afterlife to tell Fabuleux about it's existence? No..None an say if there is a afterlife. Fabuelux only hopes that its Fabuleux. Are we still gods if we can die? (We can. We do. It's not hard. It's not rare.) Can gods retire? ( After we do, we're not likely to be any more immortal than any really rich person in this time we live in: our pseudo-immortality's a product of usually dying under ideal cloning conditions. Average capsuleer career length: about a year, I think, but that's probably old data. If someone's got updated information, please share?) If we were gods, would we be qualified to hold such a position? (If not, it'll probably be pretty short-lived.) ... If I sound a little hostile to the idea that we're gods, well, I am. I've seen first-hand the resentment of baseline humanity towards those they perceive as immortal, even if we're all about to die together. It's not just a certain Gallentean journalist, though he was definitely noisy about it. It's nearly everyone. We've been known, in the past, as "gods of destruction." That phrase seems to have kind of dropped out of favor, and that seems like a good thing to me. Embracing this kind of idea, even for aesthetic or marketing reasons, seems like it brings us closer, step by step, to someone deciding to practice a really proactive form of atheism: "This day, all gods die." I've never felt particularly godly
Aria Jenneth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 3936	Posted - 2017.05.31 13:39:11 - [417] - Quote Halcyon Ember wrote: I've never felt particularly godly Me neither. It's an idea that keeps popping up, though even my predecessor thought it was a bad one. It doesn't seem like a notion much good can come out of.
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 423	Posted - 2017.05.31 14:15:21 - [418] - Quote Aria Jenneth wrote: Halcyon Ember wrote: I've never felt particularly godly Me neither. It's an idea that keeps popping up, though even my predecessor thought it was a bad one. It doesn't seem like a notion much good can come out of. Whilst an inflated Ego can give people the drive to accomplish things others might find daunting, there is no doubt an upper limit on useful inflation.
Mizhir TURN LEFT HYDRA RELOADED 75406	Posted - 2017.05.31 14:20:31 - [419] - Quote I don't consider myself as a god either. However I decided to just go along on Fabuleux's play. The man has an enormous passion for designing clothes and it seems like he has challenged all his creativity into designing something he considers worthy for us. So if it helps inspiring him I don't mind calling myself Goddess infront of him. Despite. He is not the first man to have called me that. But that is another talk. Death rides a fast C4mel
Che Biko Alexylva Paradox 1039	Posted - 2017.05.31 15:46:35 - [420] - Quote Trust and Secrets. They form somewhat of a paradoxical juxtaposition. We tend to only tell secrets to whom we trust, yet it can be hard to trust someone who keeps secrets. Coordination Channel for Consolidated Space Rescue Cooperation Open Letter to the Aidonis Foundation Directorate

Che Biko Alexylva Paradox 1041	Posted - 2017.05.31 15:52:10 - [421] - Quote Trust and Secrets. They form somewhat of a paradoxical juxtaposition. We tend to only tell secrets to whom we trust, yet it can be hard to trust someone who keeps secrets. Coordination Channel for Consolidated Space Rescue Cooperation Open Letter to the Aidonis Foundation Directorate
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 424	Posted - 2017.05.31 16:20:49 - [422] - Quote Che Biko wrote: Trust and Secrets. They form somewhat of a paradoxical juxtaposition. We tend to only tell secrets to whom we trust, yet it can be hard to trust someone who keeps secrets. Well, if they keep secrets, at the very least you know they can be trusted with such.
Jev North Anshar Incorporated Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group 1053	Posted - 2017.05.31 16:40:43 - [423] - Quote People who tell you secrets will tell yours to others as well, people who keep juicy secrets from you are just plain mean; and that's why I'm a misanthrope at heart. Even though our love is cruel; even though our stars are crossed.
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 426	Posted - 2017.05.31 16:51:34 - [424] - Quote Jev North wrote: People who tell you secrets will tell yours to others as well, but people who keep juicy secrets from you are just plain mean; and there's one reason why I'm a misanthrope at heart, I guess. You don't like sharing secrets?
Aria Jenneth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 3948	Posted - 2017.06.01 13:45:28 - [425] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Diana Kim wrote: I am glad I am not Sani Sabik then. LONG LIVE THE STATE! FOR HONOR AND GLORY! *CHARGE!* You're about a 'lemme drink they're blood' away from it. And if 'they' are Gallente, I'm not even sure you haven't done that. Although her views are a little, uh, "fringe," Ms. Kim's not actually unique or even very unusual in that. At a glance, it can actually be a little hard to find daylight between the Caldari outlook and the Sani Sabik, unless you look at it from the right angle: both groups seem to see the world as a kind of howling wilderness where only the strong survive, and so end up a little obsessive about strength. There is a bright line, though: the Caldari, in the end, are about individual strength as a necessary ingredient in community strength-- and part of individual strength is knowing when you're becoming a burden on the community and it's time to take that long walk in the snow. The Sani Sabik seem to be more about personal power, and typically aspire to live forever even at the expense of ... well, everybody. It used to be that just meant eternal spiritual life, but, now, with cloning, I guess that's changing a little in places. The only thing the Caldari are aiming to make immortal is the Caldari. Individuals are expendable, as long as the whole moves on. "The Winds care for us, not for you or me."
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 442	Posted - 2017.06.01 14:15:41 - [426] - Quote Aria Jenneth wrote: Arrendis wrote: Diana Kim wrote: I am glad I am not Sani Sabik then. LONG LIVE THE STATE! FOR HONOR AND GLORY! *CHARGE!* You're about a 'lemme drink they're blood' away from it. And if 'they' are Gallente, I'm not even sure you haven't done that. Although her views are a little, uh, "fringe," Ms. Kim's not actually unique or even very unusual in that. At a glance, it can actually be a little hard to find daylight between the Caldari outlook and the Sani Sabik, unless you look at it from the right angle. Both groups seem to see the world as a kind of howling wilderness where only the strong survive, and so end up a little obsessive about strength. There is a bright line, though: the Caldari, in the end, are about individual strength as a necessary ingredient in community strength-- and part of individual strength is knowing when you're becoming a burden on the community and it's time to take that long walk in the snow. The Sani Sabik seem to be more about personal power, and typically aspire to live forever even at the expense of ... well, everybody. It used to be that just meant eternal spiritual life, but, now, with cloning, I guess that's changing a little in places. The only thing the Caldari are aiming to make immortal is the Caldari. Individuals are expendable, as long as the whole moves on. "The Winds care for us, not for you or me." A noble attitude in a community struggling to survive in adverse conditions, I'm sure.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 4148	Posted - 2017.06.01 14:20:54 - [427] - Quote Aria Jenneth wrote: Although her views are a little, uh, "fringe," Ms. Kim's not actually unique or even very unusual in that. Except, Aria, that she's clearly redefined 'The State' in her own personal headspace, to mean 'Me'. Anyone who disagrees with her is called a traitor. The statements of the CEP itself are denied and ignored in favor of Kim's personally-preferred version of reality. She wraps it all in a manic declaration of loyalty to the State, but in the end, it's all about her aggrandizement, about her glory. So very blooder.
Aria Jenneth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 3950	Posted - 2017.06.01 14:32:11 - [428] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Aria Jenneth wrote: Although her views are a little, uh, "fringe," Ms. Kim's not actually unique or even very unusual in that. Except, Aria, that she's clearly redefined 'The State' in her own personal headspace, to mean 'Me'. Anyone who disagrees with her is called a traitor. The statements of the CEP itself are denied and ignored in favor of Kim's personally-preferred version of reality. She wraps it all in a manic declaration of loyalty to the State, but in the end, it's all about her aggrandizement, about her glory. So very blooder. So-- here's the question, though: if that's what she's doing, can she tell? The Sani Sabik, by and large, definitely can.
kul Shaishi Yurai-Tenshin Zaibatsu 31	Posted - 2017.06.01 14:47:04 - [429] - Quote Probably not and anyway l personally define her as a warlord also known as a junfa F+ìTûÑ
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 4155	Posted - 2017.06.01 18:09:18 - [430] - Quote Aria Jenneth wrote: So-- here's the question, though: if that's what she's doing, can she tell? The Sani Sabik, by and large, definitely can. Counter-question: If she can, would she ever admit it?

Aria Jenneth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 3952	Posted - 2017.06.01 18:15:38 - [431] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Aria Jenneth wrote: So-- here's the question, though: if that's what she's doing, can she tell? The Sani Sabik, by and large, definitely can. Counter-question: If she can, would she ever admit it? Get her drunk and ask? (That's not actually a joke. She's the opposite of an angry drunk, so, it might be a good way to have a better conversation with her.)
Ria Nieyli Amok. Goonswarm Federation 50756	Posted - 2017.06.01 18:41:28 - [432] - Quote Aria Jenneth wrote: Arrendis wrote: Aria Jenneth wrote: Although her views are a little, uh, "fringe," Ms. Kim's not actually unique or even very unusual in that. Except, Aria, that she's clearly redefined 'The State' in her own personal headspace, to mean 'Me'. Anyone who disagrees with her is called a traitor. The statements of the CEP itself are denied and ignored in favor of Kim's personally-preferred version of reality. She wraps it all in a manic declaration of loyalty to the State, but in the end, it's all about her aggrandizement, about her glory. So very blooder. So-- here's the question, though: if that's what she's doing, can she tell? The Sani Sabik, by and large, definitely can. Oh, she knows what she's doing. I had the unfortunate first hand experience and was too naive to see what's going on initially.
Aria Jenneth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 3956	Posted - 2017.06.01 20:45:32 - [433] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: Oh, she knows what she's doing. I had the unfortunate first hand experience and was too naive to see what's going on initially. I see.... That's a little strange. I'd expect a calculated course of action to move a little differently.
Ria Nieyli Amok. Goonswarm Federation 50766	Posted - 2017.06.01 20:51:03 - [434] - Quote Well, that's because she presents in a different manner yo her internal workings. You don't see everything that's going on, and for a reason. It really messes with your head and I was starting to become the same way.
kul Shaishi Yurai-Tenshin Zaibatsu 32	Posted - 2017.06.01 21:03:37 - [435] - Quote Ria What are Kim's internal workings anyway. Can you explain them to us
Ria Nieyli Amok. Goonswarm Federation 50767	Posted - 2017.06.01 21:15:45 - [436] - Quote Yes, I can. Not sure I want to, though.
Ashlar Vellum Esquire Armaments 444	Posted - 2017.06.02 01:10:12 - [437] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Aria Jenneth wrote: Although her views are a little, uh, "fringe," Ms. Kim's not actually unique or even very unusual in that. Except, Aria, that she's clearly redefined 'The State' in her own personal headspace, to mean 'Me'. Anyone who disagrees with her is called a traitor. The statements of the CEP itself are denied and ignored in favor of Kim's personally-preferred version of reality. She wraps it all in a manic declaration of loyalty to the State, but in the end, it's all about her aggrandizement, about her glory. So very blooder. Characterizing Sani Sabik only by self-aggrandizing ambitions is as accurate as saying if something has a pedicel it's an apple.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 4157	Posted - 2017.06.02 09:16:27 - [438] - Quote Ashlar Vellum wrote: Characterizing Sani Sabik only by self-aggrandizing ambitions is as accurate as saying if something has a pedicel it's an apple. Fortunately, I didn't do that. Saying 'self-aggrandizing behavior is reminiscent of the Blood Raiders' is not 'All Sani Sabik only ever act like that' or even 'self-aggrandizment is all there is to the Sani Sabik'. It's more like if I were to take your statement as not really bothering with my meaning, and only responding with that you wanted to see in it, and say 'how very Amarr'. You know, if I did that.
Aria Jenneth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 3960	Posted - 2017.06.02 12:56:57 - [439] - Quote Graelyn wrote: Aria Jenneth wrote: You mean did an active copy of me hack her own backup copy in long-term storage and leave that copy a sinister note about it to pass on to herself? ... No. Or at least, it's not very likely. Funny, it sounds a lot like one of my Red Protocols. Well ... you're not the first to say such a thing, my lord. Only, first, whoever it was left a "note" that doesn't make a lot of sense if it's really aimed at me. I think they expected it to reach my predecessor, some way or other. Maybe it has. The other thing is, I don't ... really believe that amnesia lifts all sins from a person's soul. It's why I stay away from Achura, my homeworld: I'm a murderer there, of pretty much the worst sort, a kinslayer. And, I can almost guarantee the Cartel wouldn't just forgive me just because I can't remember who I was, either. They have no reason to let me escape retaliation just by resetting my head. Since I haven't been tortured to death yet, I'm guessing they're the ones responsible for this, or, at least, I serve a role more useful to them than "object lesson." Since I don't feel like I owe them anything at all, I probably serve that role just by existing. Most likely, I'm bait.
Graelyn Akagi Initiative Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 1131	Posted - 2017.06.02 13:11:08 - [440] - Quote ((try other thread )) Cardinal Graelyn Imperial Liaison, I-RED Amarr Loyalist of the Year - YC113

Ashlar Vellum Esquire Armaments 445	Posted - 2017.06.02 16:29:43 - [441] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Ashlar Vellum wrote: Characterizing Sani Sabik only by self-aggrandizing ambitions is as accurate as saying if something has a pedicel it's an apple. Fortunately, I didn't do that. Saying 'self-aggrandizing behavior is reminiscent of the Blood Raiders' is not 'All Sani Sabik only ever act like that' or even 'self-aggrandizment is all there is to the Sani Sabik'. It's more like if I were to take your statement as not really bothering with my meaning, and only responding with that you wanted to see in it, and say 'how very Amarr'. You know, if I did that. Ok, what did you say then when you posted "... it's all about her aggrandizement, about her glory. So very blooder."?
Claudia Osyn Non-Hostile Target 2444	Posted - 2017.06.02 16:32:40 - [442] - Quote Ashlar Vellum wrote: Arrendis wrote: Ashlar Vellum wrote: Characterizing Sani Sabik only by self-aggrandizing ambitions is as accurate as saying if something has a pedicel it's an apple. Fortunately, I didn't do that. Saying 'self-aggrandizing behavior is reminiscent of the Blood Raiders' is not 'All Sani Sabik only ever act like that' or even 'self-aggrandizment is all there is to the Sani Sabik'. It's more like if I were to take your statement as not really bothering with my meaning, and only responding with that you wanted to see in it, and say 'how very Amarr'. You know, if I did that. Ok, what did you say then when you posted "... it's all about her aggrandizement, about her glory. So very blooder."? He said: "... it's all about her aggrandizement, about her glory. So very blooder." Why would you ask that when you have the quote right there? A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
Graelyn Akagi Initiative Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 1135	Posted - 2017.06.02 16:48:35 - [443] - Quote No, You. Cardinal Graelyn Imperial Liaison, I-RED Amarr Loyalist of the Year - YC113
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 4158	Posted - 2017.06.02 17:31:18 - [444] - Quote Ashlar Vellum wrote: Ok, what did you say then when you posted "... it's all about her aggrandizement, about her glory. So very blooder."? Well, given that I was building on the earlier statement that Diana's about 'blood drinking' away from being a Blood Raider, I would've thought it would be clear that I was saying her self-aggrandizement was the same kind of behavior you might expect to find in them. Note: Just because you expect to find X behavior in a population doesn't mean X behavior is the only behavior they exhibit, or that that that behavior is the singular defining trait of a larger population (the Sani Sabik) of which your example (the Blood Raiders) are a subset. Claudia Osyn wrote: He said I already run around without pants on, do I have to make the shirt short enough that people can tell I don't wear shorts, too? NOT A 'HE'.
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 448	Posted - 2017.06.02 17:37:05 - [445] - Quote Arrendis wrote: do I have to make the shirt short enough that people can tell I don't wear shorts, too? NOT A 'HE'. I feel that would help
Claudia Osyn Non-Hostile Target 2445	Posted - 2017.06.02 22:02:40 - [446] - Quote Halcyon Ember wrote: Arrendis wrote: do I have to make the shirt short enough that people can tell I don't wear shorts, too? NOT A 'HE'. I feel that would help If I typo enough, will we get nudes? A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 4167	Posted - 2017.06.02 22:40:26 - [447] - Quote Not mine, but sure.
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 461	Posted - 2017.06.03 18:48:35 - [448] - Quote Claudia Osyn wrote: Halcyon Ember wrote: Arrendis wrote: do I have to make the shirt short enough that people can tell I don't wear shorts, too? NOT A 'HE'. I feel that would help If I typo enough, will we get nudes? I'd prefer to reward people for typing correctly, myself.
Claudia Osyn Non-Hostile Target 2447	Posted - 2017.06.04 07:26:05 - [449] - Quote Halcyon Ember wrote: Claudia Osyn wrote: Halcyon Ember wrote: Arrendis wrote: do I have to make the shirt short enough that people can tell I don't wear shorts, too? NOT A 'HE'. I feel that would help If I typo enough, will we get nudes? I'd prefer to reward people for typing correctly, myself. Hey, I wasn't the one offering to further unclothe myself for spelling errors. If I can get a reward for a mistake, I'll take advantage. A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 469	Posted - 2017.06.06 11:24:14 - [450] - Quote Ok, from now on removing clothing should only be used as a reward for good behaviour

Casserina Leshrac Sanguine Illuminations M.A.D. Consortium 265	Posted - 2017.06.06 17:25:04 - [451] - Quote Halcyon Ember wrote: Ok, from now on removing clothing should only be used as a reward for good behaviour Good behavior can have so many connotations. Just making an observation. *We stand at the Abyss, drawing the Patterns of Fate - Casserina Leshrac, Savant, Sani Sabik.*
Blade Darth Room for Improvement Limited Expectations 212	Posted - 2017.06.06 19:21:09 - [452] - Quote Let's see where we are in this topic.... Redheads talking about removing clothes- check Omen Navy Issue Tutorial
Casserina Leshrac Sanguine Illuminations M.A.D. Consortium 266	Posted - 2017.06.06 20:35:18 - [453] - Quote Blade Darth wrote: Let's see where we are in this topic.... Redheads talking about removing clothes- check Not necessarily *We stand at the Abyss, drawing the Patterns of Fate - Casserina Leshrac, Savant, Sani Sabik.*
Charles Cambridge Schmidt Schmidt's Sewing Suits and Spaceships 489	Posted - 2017.06.07 06:41:14 - [454] - Quote So does anybody else harbor sexual feelings for battlecruisers or is that just me? I don't care what you think, as long as it's about me.
Elmund Egivand Sebestacny Circle 2474	Posted - 2017.06.07 07:30:19 - [455] - Quote Charles Cambridge Schmidt wrote: So does anybody else harbor sexual feelings for battlecruisers or is that just me? I have always considered my Breacher to be mah waifu, if that counts. A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Nana Skalski Taisaanat Kotei 34842	Posted - 2017.06.07 11:13:33 - [456] - Quote Hmm, I think we all have favourite. I have multiple. Sometimes I dont know which one to choose. takes out rocket from a drawer Actually, this is a model I made myself. Even have blinking light inside the fumes. ß¦çß¦áß¦ç-Ç-Å ß¦ÿß¦Ç-Çß¦¢ ß¦Å-ô ß¦Ç +óß¦Çß¦ìß¦ç -£ß¦ç-ƒß¦ÿs ß¦¢ß¦Å ß¦¢ß¦ç-ƒ-ƒ ß¦Ç sß¦¢ß¦Å-Ç-Å =ƒôò ß¦í-£ß¦ç-Çß¦ç +¬s ß¦Ç+¦+ó-Ç-Å ß¦äß¦Å+¦ß¦äß¦Å-Çß¦à +óß¦£-Å ß¦í-£ß¦ç+¦ -Åß¦Åß¦£ +¦ß¦çß¦çß¦à -£+¬ß¦ì ß¦Åsß¦ÿ-Çß¦ç-Å =ƒÜÇ GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
Morgana Tsukiyo Samsara Dynamics 250	Posted - 2017.06.07 11:49:18 - [457] - Quote You know they cant consent, so it is usually classified as a fetich and may indicate a very narrow and limited sexual experience for yourselves. Join Project Transcendence. Applied technology for the enhancement of human experience.
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 472	Posted - 2017.06.07 12:15:55 - [458] - Quote Nana Skalski wrote: Hmm, I think we all have favourite. I have multiple. Sometimes I dont know which one to choose. takes out rocket from a drawer Actually, this is a model I made myself. Even have blinking light inside the fumes. I think ms Kim has some of those
Che Biko Alexylva Paradox 1048	Posted - 2017.06.07 12:58:19 - [459] - Quote Pff, is it me or is this forum a bit hotter than usual the past weeks? Coordination Channel for Consolidated Space Rescue Cooperation Open Letter to the Aidonis Foundation Directorate
Alia Nadasdy Imperial's Capsulers 15	Posted - 2017.06.07 20:48:13 - [460] - Quote Che Biko wrote: Pff, is it me or is this forum a bit hotter than usual the past weeks? No, everything is just as boring. The idea ! The time has come and so have I IGÇÖll laugh last IGÇÖll never kneel and IGÇÖll never rest You can tear the heart from my chest Having achieved nothing. Now I know how the seraph fell I know the tale and I know it too well I'll make you wish that you do not have a soul You'll never break my fate! IGÇÖll tell you now IGÇÖm the one to survive I can win Purist Victor Joke, relax. "We are the Harbingers of hope, We are the Sword of the Righteous" "We are a shadow of the former greatness of the Empire" Purist Lord Admiral Victor

Casserina Leshrac Sanguine Illuminations M.A.D. Consortium 272	Posted - 2017.06.07 22:34:42 - [461] - Quote Halcyon Ember wrote: Nana Skalski wrote: Hmm, I think we all have favourite. I have multiple. Sometimes I dont know which one to choose. takes out rocket from a drawer Actually, this is a model I made myself. Even have blinking light inside the fumes. I think ms Kim has some of those Closer to emmulating the Late Mr. Teth's.. ahem attributes. *We stand at the Abyss, drawing the Patterns of Fate - Casserina Leshrac, Savant, Sani Sabik.*
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 496	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:24:01 - [462] - Quote Deitra Vess wrote: Diana Kim wrote: Maybe you do realize that the State has the most intelligent bloodline employed as scientists - Achura?... ... Come back after you educate yourself. On the matter of educating one's self, if one was to buy a +5 intelligence implant and respec their clone to focusing primarially on Intellegence to a point surpassing your esteemed Achuran scientists, by that logic wouldn't that make a Brutor, Sebiestor or oh say for instance ethnic Gallante a more intellegent scientist than an Achuran one? I don't have enough popcorn for this. Queen of Chocolate
Halcyon Ember Repracor Industries 499	Posted - 2017.06.09 13:46:56 - [463] - Quote Jason Galente wrote: Halcyon Ember wrote: Jason Galente wrote: Loai Qerl wrote: Hell (Veikitamo Gesakaarin) And here we see why you and I get along so well. To be fair though, it didn't seem quite that bad.. she at least had old books. It can't really be the archetypal, conceptual hell if there's something, anything, good about it. Hell is different things to different people. No amount of pleasant books or sweet treats can truly gloss over the things that break you, however you might wish to tell yourself otherwise. No, but books can offer you the solution to your angst and suffering. If you read enough. They're not the opiate or the comfort. They're the path out. No. They're the potential to find a path. They're a set of directions. The path is far longer and harder than that. Queen of Chocolate
Che Biko Alexylva Paradox 1059	Posted - 2017.06.20 12:33:06 - [464] - Quote How come this thread has not been used in 10 days? Anyway... Aria Jenneth wrote: (Doctor, quickly! The patient's slipped into a comma!) {Nurse, prepare an Exclamation ^! stat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!} Coordination Channel for Consolidated Space Rescue Cooperation Open Letter to the Aidonis Foundation Directorate
Che Biko Alexylva Paradox 1062	Posted - 2017.06.21 21:02:26 - [465] - Quote Not sure if even kul noticed the upside down IV joke. Maybe I overdosed on the exclamation marks. Anyway, jokes tend to not be funny if you have to explain them, so I understand the lack of laughter. Coordination Channel for Consolidated Space Rescue Cooperation Open Letter to the Aidonis Foundation Directorate
Che Biko Alexylva Paradox 1064	Posted - 2017.06.21 22:03:32 - [466] - Quote Talking about jokes... James Syagrius wrote: Commaageddon perhaps, well yes, perhaps a bit too exuberant with them... But still, the point remains. I get the . Coordination Channel for Consolidated Space Rescue Cooperation Open Letter to the Aidonis Foundation Directorate


Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 .. 16 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.