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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.05.10 23:49:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Centerion X Edited by: Centerion X on 10/05/2007 22:27:28 Hey there everyone! CenterionX here. I have been an EVE player since April of 2005.
I and Vaster Holtex formed a corporation called Synergy Syndicate. Now as happens with all of us I think I needed a break and so did Vaster. SO we took a break from the game, about 4 months.
When I returned my multi Billion dollar Corp had been given away by CCP. One of our members had petitioned that we were not active and petitioned for CEO of the corp. And they gave it to him. Now that being said, do not blame this person, I do not hold this person at fault. CCP's answer should have been NO!
Now let me make this part clear. He didnĘt "Run for CEO" as we all can do in the "Corporation" tab. He filed a petition with CCP. Now you have to understand. Vaster and I still have active accounts. Now as far as I understand it the CEO is the "owner" of the corp. So if the remaining people in a corporation cannot get the votes to take the CEO position then those items should stay where they are. They either disappear when the corporation disappears, or they are there when the owners return.
I was told by a GM that this was a player vs Player Issue.Player vs Player??? I donĘt know of any other player that can without a vote take control of a corporation. I mean if we follow this course then if you find out that "BOB" has stopped playing.... you should be able to petition for his things. I know thatĘs extreme but I am quite upset.
I can not list everything that was "lost" But I know that we had 2 large Caldari towers, 2 Medium Caldari towers, 1 small Amarr Tower, 8 Moon Miners, a Complex Reactor, 2 research facilities, Approx 13 Silos, so you get the idea of what was lost here.
I wanted to post this just to warn everyone that their items may not be as safe as they think. Well I hope the best for everyone.
Take care, Cent
email CCP directly
the GMs are usually just regular people are have no clue WTF they are doing ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
Taikun
Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis
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Posted - 2007.05.10 23:54:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Taikun on 10/05/2007 23:51:15
Any GM who makes this type of decision needs to LOSE THEIR JOB.
If I wanted as CEO to trash all the BPOs and give all the corp funds away to newbies I bloody well should be allowed to. Likewise if I CHOOSE my level of activity to be logging in once every 6 months THAT is my right.
Members of my corp can either like it or lump it. Either way, MY corp MY rules.
Who does this GM think he is sticking his dirty fingers into other peoples assets and giving it away to others on the say so of one person?
Never before has it been so clear to me that a GM overstepped their boundries in their role.
Somebody check the water quality at CCP headquarters. Obviously lead pipes are to blame to allow this to carry on.
Taikun
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Bistot Kid
The First Thing You'll Ever See
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Posted - 2007.05.11 00:02:00 -
[33]
As the CEO of the corporation it's your bat and your ball and nobody elses bloody business sticking their fingers into your pie.
The only reasonable solotion would be for the rest of your corp to leave and form their own new corp, taking whatever assets their privilidges allowed.
It's frankly nothing to do with CCP apart from being hosted on their servers. You did nothing wrong and you should be re-imbursed.
------------------------------------- Hold my calls and sack my cook ------------------------------------- |
Ishtar1
Paradox v2.0 1 Shot 1 Kill
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Posted - 2007.05.11 00:14:00 -
[34]
that sounds like that a GM has made a mistake. That should not of happend IMO get in touch with a senoir(SP) GM and get them to fix this.
This is of there own making so this should be fixed ASAP if they have any sence of fairness, right/wrong
And on the point of this being a player VS player issue explain very clearly with a cool head what happend to a senoir GM
GL with this as it should be sorted in your favour if the info you provided is correct
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Frug
Zenithal Harvest
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Posted - 2007.05.11 00:26:00 -
[35]
Wow, WTF are the GMs doing.
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles |
Centerion X
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Posted - 2007.05.11 00:50:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Venkul Mul Edited by: Venkul Mul on 10/05/2007 23:46:42 Reading what you wrote the GM wasn't so wrong, NOT in giving avay the CEO title (that was totally wrong), but in saying that the stolen good are a Player vs Player issue.
You had nominated 2 directors, the directors have full powers, included dismantling pos, taking items from any corp hangar and so on.
So they could have taken the above goods even if one of them hadn't gotten the CEO title.
If you and your friend have kept the corporation shares, have a majority and are still in the corp (unsure about the last part), you can run for CEO, vote yourself back, and lock all the hangars to recover what you can.
For all I know people with shares in a corp can be booted out only with a shareolder vote, so you can be still in the corporation and get that back.
Problem is it wasnt one of theose two who took over. I did recover what i could, but it was less then 10% of what was there before. But yes as said above I do plan on taking this in stride. But again I felt is was something the rest of us pod pilots should know.
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.05.11 02:02:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Centerion X
Originally by: Venkul Mul Edited by: Venkul Mul on 10/05/2007 23:46:42 Reading what you wrote the GM wasn't so wrong, NOT in giving avay the CEO title (that was totally wrong), but in saying that the stolen good are a Player vs Player issue.
You had nominated 2 directors, the directors have full powers, included dismantling pos, taking items from any corp hangar and so on.
So they could have taken the above goods even if one of them hadn't gotten the CEO title.
If you and your friend have kept the corporation shares, have a majority and are still in the corp (unsure about the last part), you can run for CEO, vote yourself back, and lock all the hangars to recover what you can.
For all I know people with shares in a corp can be booted out only with a shareolder vote, so you can be still in the corporation and get that back.
Problem is it wasnt one of theose two who took over. I did recover what i could, but it was less then 10% of what was there before. But yes as said above I do plan on taking this in stride. But again I felt is was something the rest of us pod pilots should know.
wtf?
petition this and talk to a senior gm and get your stuff back
doesnt even matter if you care anymore the gm should be called out and lose his job and the person that got your stuff should lose all of it ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.05.11 02:03:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Centerion X
Originally by: Venkul Mul Edited by: Venkul Mul on 10/05/2007 23:46:42 Reading what you wrote the GM wasn't so wrong, NOT in giving avay the CEO title (that was totally wrong), but in saying that the stolen good are a Player vs Player issue.
You had nominated 2 directors, the directors have full powers, included dismantling pos, taking items from any corp hangar and so on.
So they could have taken the above goods even if one of them hadn't gotten the CEO title.
If you and your friend have kept the corporation shares, have a majority and are still in the corp (unsure about the last part), you can run for CEO, vote yourself back, and lock all the hangars to recover what you can.
For all I know people with shares in a corp can be booted out only with a shareolder vote, so you can be still in the corporation and get that back.
Problem is it wasnt one of theose two who took over. I did recover what i could, but it was less then 10% of what was there before. But yes as said above I do plan on taking this in stride. But again I felt is was something the rest of us pod pilots should know.
wtf?
petition this and talk to a senior gm and get your stuff back
doesnt even matter if you care anymore the gm should be called out and lose his job and the person that got your stuff should lose all of it ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
Lrrp
Minmatar Gallente Mercantile Exchange
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Posted - 2007.05.11 02:59:00 -
[39]
As a director of our corp, let me just state I can run the corp just fine without the CEO being around (which has happened due to R/L issues) So if OP set up directors, why was there a need to xfer assets to a new CCP generated CEO? I could understand if OP canceled/let lapse his acct., but as long as it was paid in full the GM's had no business interfering with something that already had a means within the corp to rectify the situation.
Now as to assets. While I understand that CCP may own in game assets as far as dictating said assets cannot be sold on ebay for real money, OTOH as long as I am paying my monthly fee those assets I have accrued in game are mine and no one elses. However corporations are a bit different as those assets technically belong to the corporation. So anyone with access (read corp member) can take them and use them. So in my view, the assets could have disappeared just as easy by the Directors simply taking them (take care CEO's on who you make director). I fail to understand why a GM saw fit to intervene in this issue and it would be appreciated I'm sure, by everyone reading this thread, to have CCP reply as to what is going on. I mean like how long one is inactive before CCP steps in and gives assets away. A week? A month? What?
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Verite Rendition
Caldari AUS Corporation CORE.
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Posted - 2007.05.11 03:00:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Slickdrac You were gone for 4 months, what did you expect them to do, just sit around and wait for you to come back? Hell, everyone I know goes by 30 days, and you have left the game. So, you were gone for 4 times that long, someone had to run the damn thing.
I concur. If you're gone for over 30 days, I don't see a problem with someone else taking the CEO position. A corp needs to be kept running, and directors can't do that in the long term due to the fact that directors can't appoint additional directors, nor are they people listed as the CEO of the corp if anyone comes with the intention of talking to your corp. If you're taking a leave of absence, you need to make someone else the CEO to keep the corp going while you're gone. Otherwise don't be surprised if you're no longer the CEO due to GM actions.*
* GM actions are a last resort, voting would be easier but if you haven't noticed CEO voting is very hard, not the least problem being that you need enough shares ---- AUS Corp Lead Megalomanic |
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MORRS
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Posted - 2007.05.11 03:03:00 -
[41]
It is my opinion that if your account is active and paid up, then you are active whether you log on or not.
This is the worst thing I have ever seen reported in this game.
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Liliane Woodhead
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Posted - 2007.05.11 03:17:00 -
[42]
i am sexy ... i dont need to read what you all there fear about your asasets .... i want yours i feel safe :P
advertisement>X>1,1<< <bring back ooooh bring back, oooh boney bring back the real jenny spitfire toooo meeeeee >
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Smakadabo
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Posted - 2007.05.11 03:21:00 -
[43]
What do you expect? GM's stick their dirty hands in stuff all the time. Everyone knows they get the GM's from the crazyhouse up the street from CCP.
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Nimani
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Posted - 2007.05.11 05:40:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Nimani on 11/05/2007 05:39:33 I'm a bit surprised that everyone seems to think that the CEO owns the corp and all of it's assets. I thought that a corp was a gathering of people with similar interests working together towards a goal being lead by a CEO. Not a group of people owned by the CEO.
Even though I'm aware that it's not valid to make references to rl, I can't stop myself from doing it. Does the CEOs of rl corporations consider that corporations assets their personal belongings?
I was under the impression that it was the shareholders that owned the corp. And I doubt that CCP has taken your shares.
It seems to me that the main problem is that the two directors you left in charge has themselves made a takeover of the corp, or let someone else make a takeover.
You still have all your stuff left including the shares that make you owner of a corp. It might be that your shares are not worth as much as they were four months ago, but that's the risk with shares.
My interpretation of what has happened is that you left "your" corporation in the hands someone that you probably shouldn't have left it with and now you face the consequence of that.
/Nimani
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.05.11 05:49:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Nimani Edited by: Nimani on 11/05/2007 05:39:33 I'm a bit surprised that everyone seems to think that the CEO owns the corp and all of it's assets. I thought that a corp was a gathering of people with similar interests working together towards a goal being lead by a CEO. Not a group of people owned by the CEO.
Even though I'm aware that it's not valid to make references to rl, I can't stop myself from doing it. Does the CEOs of rl corporations consider that corporations assets their personal belongings?
I was under the impression that it was the shareholders that owned the corp. And I doubt that CCP has taken your shares.
It seems to me that the main problem is that the two directors you left in charge has themselves made a takeover of the corp, or let someone else make a takeover.
You still have all your stuff left including the shares that make you owner of a corp. It might be that your shares are not worth as much as they were four months ago, but that's the risk with shares.
My interpretation of what has happened is that you left "your" corporation in the hands someone that you probably shouldn't have left it with and now you face the consequence of that.
/Nimani
you understand wrong
the guy who did this to him was not either one of the directors
if the CEO does not own the corp how do you justify the other guy running away with 90% of the corp stuff? ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.05.11 05:59:00 -
[46]
Question to the OP:
Were either of the 2 directors still active in the Corp?
If they were, then very bad on the GM.
If they weren't, this would have been the only way a corp member could have kept the corp active, keep the POSs online, etc so I can see it happening a little easier. And I apologize for mis-understanding with my first post, this is a raw deal <-----------> Factional Warefare:
The LowSec wars which never happened. |
Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express Frontier Trade League
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Posted - 2007.05.11 06:32:00 -
[47]
This does indeed seem to have been a GM error.
There are in game measures for players to take a corp, its called shares. Barring that nothing prevented them from taking what they could with the roles they had and making a new corp.
They should not have interfered.
This sounds like you should petition and refer the case to Arkanon, the CCP Director of Internal Affairs. It certainly seems to border of GM misuse of power.
Someone said you couldn't kick folks that owned shares, that's not correct. You can still kick them without a vote.
If you still control a majority of shares you can force out the current ceo and force a vote for CEO. You can actually call for the vote if you own I think 5% of the shares. They'll know you called for it though as it will mail all the shareholders.
Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts. |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.05.11 06:44:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Verite Rendition
Originally by: Slickdrac You were gone for 4 months, what did you expect them to do, just sit around and wait for you to come back? Hell, everyone I know goes by 30 days, and you have left the game. So, you were gone for 4 times that long, someone had to run the damn thing.
I concur. If you're gone for over 30 days, I don't see a problem with someone else taking the CEO position. A corp needs to be kept running, and directors can't do that in the long term due to the fact that directors can't appoint additional directors, nor are they people listed as the CEO of the corp if anyone comes with the intention of talking to your corp. If you're taking a leave of absence, you need to make someone else the CEO to keep the corp going while you're gone. Otherwise don't be surprised if you're no longer the CEO due to GM actions.*
* GM actions are a last resort, voting would be easier but if you haven't noticed CEO voting is very hard, not the least problem being that you need enough shares
Like 1 share if no other player vote?
It is the majority of the used votes, not of the shares, there isn't a minimum number of share neneded for a vote.
As, from the OP clarification, the corp wasn't even "appropriated" by a director this thing start really to smell.
As there is nothing to block the players from leaving a corporation after thaking anything they can, giving away the CEO powers is totally wrong.
Even if there was only 1 player left, he had no right to the GM help in robbing the corporation.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.05.11 06:51:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Nimani Edited by: Nimani on 11/05/2007 05:39:33 I'm a bit surprised that everyone seems to think that the CEO owns the corp and all of it's assets. I thought that a corp was a gathering of people with similar interests working together towards a goal being lead by a CEO. Not a group of people owned by the CEO.
Even though I'm aware that it's not valid to make references to rl, I can't stop myself from doing it. Does the CEOs of rl corporations consider that corporations assets their personal belongings?
I was under the impression that it was the shareholders that owned the corp. And I doubt that CCP has taken your shares.
It seems to me that the main problem is that the two directors you left in charge has themselves made a takeover of the corp, or let someone else make a takeover.
You still have all your stuff left including the shares that make you owner of a corp. It might be that your shares are not worth as much as they were four months ago, but that's the risk with shares.
My interpretation of what has happened is that you left "your" corporation in the hands someone that you probably shouldn't have left it with and now you face the consequence of that.
/Nimani
Can I say ENRON?
The CEO were using the corporation assets like they were the CEO property and not the shareholder property.
In EVE the corporation system is like that of the rail barons in the XIX century. The CEO is the mayor shareolder and the total dictator of the corporation (if you find the PC version or the tabletop play 1870 and the following games and you will see how it work ).
In any event it wasn't a shareolder takeover or a director takeover, but a "common employee" takeover witht he help of a political figure (the GM).
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Nanobotter Mk2
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Posted - 2007.05.11 07:02:00 -
[50]
Sorry I think you are wrong in this case. You have corp members who have contributed to those billions, and you just jumped ship on them. Infact poo on you for not turning over leadership before you left. How dare you take liberty with all your corp members hard work and effort simply because you created the corp. You left YOUR PROBLEM. I am glad CCP had the courage to do what is right.
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Drasked
North Face Force Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.05.11 07:17:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Taikun Edited by: Taikun on 10/05/2007 23:51:15
Any GM who makes this type of decision needs to LOSE THEIR JOB.
If I wanted as CEO to trash all the BPOs and give all the corp funds away to newbies I bloody well should be allowed to. Likewise if I CHOOSE my level of activity to be logging in once every 6 months THAT is my right.
Members of my corp can either like it or lump it. Either way, MY corp MY rules.
Who does this GM think he is sticking his dirty fingers into other peoples assets and giving it away to others on the say so of one person?
Never before has it been so clear to me that a GM overstepped their boundries in their role.
Somebody check the water quality at CCP headquarters. Obviously lead pipes are to blame to allow this to carry on.
Taikun
Couldn't have said it any better.
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Atreides Horza
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.05.11 07:29:00 -
[52]
WTF!?
So, basically, CEOs are now required to live up to CCPs definition of 'active player' or have everything they built handed over to someone else?
That's seriously discomforting.
Maybe the GMs should spend more time issuing warnings to idiots derailing threads with the inevitable wannaB-l33t "IBTL"-comments.
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Cayloron
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Posted - 2007.05.11 07:53:00 -
[53]
I would petition this and request a senior GM look at it. By your account it seems like a poor call by a gm, so asking for a higher level review is probably the only recourse you will have short of canceling your subscription.
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smashsmash
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Posted - 2007.05.11 08:06:00 -
[54]
sorry to hear you lost your stuff. hopefully you can find a rich uncle or something and pod him for his money so you can start a new corp :D
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Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express Frontier Trade League
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Posted - 2007.05.11 08:12:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Venkul Mul Edited by: Venkul Mul on 11/05/2007 06:54:19
Originally by: Verite Rendition
Originally by: Slickdrac You were gone for 4 months, what did you expect them to do, just sit around and wait for you to come back? Hell, everyone I know goes by 30 days, and you have left the game. So, you were gone for 4 times that long, someone had to run the damn thing.
I concur. If you're gone for over 30 days, I don't see a problem with someone else taking the CEO position. A corp needs to be kept running, and directors can't do that in the long term due to the fact that directors can't appoint additional directors, nor are they people listed as the CEO of the corp if anyone comes with the intention of talking to your corp. If you're taking a leave of absence, you need to make someone else the CEO to keep the corp going while you're gone. Otherwise don't be surprised if you're no longer the CEO due to GM actions.*
* GM actions are a last resort, voting would be easier but if you haven't noticed CEO voting is very hard, not the least problem being that you need enough shares
Like 1 share if no other player vote?
It is the majority of the used votes, not of the shares, there isn't a minimum number of share neneded for a vote.[EDIT: or 5% as the post before mine say? must test that]
As, from the OP clarification, the corp wasn't even "appropriated" by a director this thing start really to smell.
As there is nothing to block the players from leaving a corporation after thaking anything they can, giving away the CEO powers is totally wrong.
Even if there was only 1 player left, he had no right to the GM help in robbing the corporation.
The results of a vote is indeed determined by the amount of votes cast. However to call for a CEO vote you have to own 5% of the shares of the corp.
So if the corp has 10000 shares, you'd have to own 500 to start a vote for CEO.
Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts. |
Del Narveux
Obsidian Angels Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.05.11 08:16:00 -
[56]
Wow, this is seriously ********. If you were unsubbed thats one thing, but if your sub is paid for there should be no way to get screwed for inactivity, period. This sets a very bad precedent, bear in mind a lot of larger corps use a second account for CEO, that may only get logged in once in a blue moon to set new directors and such. How is CCP, or anyone else to know whether an "inactive" CEO is really inactive, and not just the real CEO's alt being petitioned by some joker who wants to hax the corp away from him. _________________ [SAK] Alumnus--And Proud Of It! -- aka Cpt Bogus Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
Originally by: Wrangler Well, at least we have forum PvP..
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w0rmy
Pringles Inc. YouWhat
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Posted - 2007.05.11 08:20:00 -
[57]
Its nice knowing the GM's have more effect on the outcome of events than the players themselves!!
GG CCP!!
Id have a sig, but you guys keep growling me for them
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.05.11 08:35:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 Sorry I think you are wrong in this case. You have corp members who have contributed to those billions, and you just jumped ship on them. Infact poo on you for not turning over leadership before you left. How dare you take liberty with all your corp members hard work and effort simply because you created the corp. You left YOUR PROBLEM. I am glad CCP had the courage to do what is right.
That depend on what was the corp organization. In mine the starting capital was put in by the 4 founder and directors, the tax rate has always been moderate, and most of the isk in the corp wallet is generated by the activity of the 4 founders, as the rest of thecorp is formed by relatively young characters and/or pople interested in trade, mining and costruction, all activities that are not taxed.
So the corporation assets are generated at least at the 70% by the activity of the directors, not by that of the other players.
When the POS we are building will start giving a return it will go in the corporation wallet to pay for the POS expenses, but as it was brought with the isk from the directors wallets, not from the other players wallet, I would be very irritated if one of the other players in the corp stheal it. And I feel that the return of the POS are more a property of the directors than of all the member of the corporation.
What the other player get from the corporation and what they are taxed for is: a) access to corporate hangar; b) reduced prices on corporate BPO production; c) free BPC of the corporation and director BPO; d) some free frigate; e) free use of barges and industrial given to the corporation by the directors; f) loans; g) refining at 100% efficence and recycling at 99,5%.
If the player feel that they don't get the tax value back they can suggest changes or leave the corporation, but if before leaving they take allt the content of the corp hangar I will call them corp thiefs.
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Jessica Lorelei
Minmatar Vitae Mecha
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Posted - 2007.05.11 08:51:00 -
[59]
im pretty sure ive seen a GM or Dev say that corp assets belong to the CEO , no questions, it doesnt belong to the corp as a whole.
if a ceo chooses he has the right to take EVERYTHING that is not in corp members personal hangars and bugger off.
that said, the GM overstepped the mark and should be publicly flogged. Getting involved, on one guys say so, and then turning round and saying its a player versus player issue. HOW SO? the players cant do anything about it once the GM has stepped in.
to the OP, you should escalate this further.
and you should choose your members more carefully :P -NEVER CONFUSE OPINNION WITH FACT-
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Gaven Blands
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Posted - 2007.05.11 08:55:00 -
[60]
Going out on a limb here, and not to suggest in any way who the Devs and GMs provide clandestine cheating services for, but was the recipient of your stuff a BoB alt?
Eve: Cheats prosper. |
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