EVE Search - Freighter down in empire!!!

Check My IP Information

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

Freighter down in empire!!!

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
ns10	Posted - 2007.05.12 15:23:00 - [1] Man, was anyone else in Nakuguard just after dt, there was like 100 concorde and a husk of a freighter outside station. Looks like another freighter ganked. Took me ages to dock at 0.1 fps lag 4tl
Ker Ching	Posted - 2007.05.12 15:30:00 - [2] I wasn't there, but I wanted to reply before SiJira did.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.05.12 15:34:00 - [3] damn you ker and ns10 i wish i seen it ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
MAX MEXX	Posted - 2007.05.12 15:35:00 - [4] Was it d2 again?
ns10	Posted - 2007.05.12 15:54:00 - [5] no idea, just a bunch of guys kicking the crap out of a lone freighter. Looks like empire is not safe for these big lunking ships after all.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.05.12 15:56:00 - [6] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 12/05/2007 15:55:53 I hope we wont get another debate about freighter ganking every time someone gets his ass handed to him flying a freighter. That being said, im actually a bit curious about more info about this... --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune
Hellman109 Gallente Magnetar Ltd Dark Synergy	Posted - 2007.05.12 15:58:00 - [7] Hey when we were wardecced I was killed in empire by a BS and I was in a vexor. Therfore: nerf BS' nerf wardeccing (again) </sarcasm> its shown to be easy to stop the ganking (smart bomb escorts) and if your in a 800mil ship hauling 2bil+, you should be able to get some escorts...
Biggess Boobess	Posted - 2007.05.12 16:02:00 - [8] Actually the guy had 16bill in cargo and was in a nooby corp thinking cocorde would protect him lol
SiJira	Posted - 2007.05.12 16:05:00 - [9] Originally by: Biggess Boobess Actually the guy had 16bill in cargo and was in a nooby corp thinking cocorde would protect him lol i think he quit eve now ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Biggess Boobess	Posted - 2007.05.12 16:11:00 - [10] Yeah that's gotta hurt, like there hasn't been enough forum posts about this to warn peeps

SiJira	Posted - 2007.05.12 16:16:00 - [11] Originally by: Biggess Boobess Yeah that's gotta hurt, like there hasn't been enough forum posts about this to warn peeps to think you are safe in npc corp with a freighter... i do not think the guy ever even heard of the forums ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Thommy	Posted - 2007.05.12 16:47:00 - [12] Affcourse not everyone reads the forums and mau not be aware of this, however the point is makeing a gank loss in isk worth a freighter suicide means the person transporting took a risk and got the worse end of the stick. I have seen the occasional squad hanging arround with their massive ammounts of drones and waited it out at a comfortable distance once (this was before freighters dropped loot though). The wait took almost 1 hour but in the end was really worth it though something tells me concord needs a boost and nerf (boost them so 1 ship can take out any ship at the same speed as the current squad does, nerf it so that only 1 ship shows up anyway meaning that 10 people suicide does not lead to a 100 concord ship spam). Guide to fix eve problems. Cleanup your cache with my cache tool
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2007.05.12 17:20:00 - [13] just wondering... why would a freighter go to nakugard...? - "Ready for your... sponge bath?"
ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.12 17:26:00 - [14] I think it would be a good idea to remove insurance payouts for getting concordokkened. And also make it so that cargo scanners wont work on the freighter. the people trying to suicide gank the freighter should have to risk more, given the potential rewards.
Minnu Minmatar SFTW Manufacturing INC.	Posted - 2007.05.12 18:08:00 - [15] Originally by: Ker Ching I wasn't there, but I wanted to reply before SiJira did. Alt Posting Is bad mkay? ------------- I build stuff :)
Gorken	Posted - 2007.05.12 18:22:00 - [16] Edited by: Gorken on 12/05/2007 18:20:36
Badhands Gallente DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.12 18:33:00 - [17] CCP should make it so you have to agree to a duel in a confirmation window to lock another ship in hisec. That way this won't happen anymore. ... .
Arushia Nova Labs Empire Research	Posted - 2007.05.12 18:48:00 - [18] Originally by: Roemy Schneider just wondering... why would a freighter go to nakugard...? COSMOS farmers moving loot? Nova Labs and Empire Research
SE1X	Posted - 2007.05.12 18:50:00 - [19] Well on the test server it looks like Concord has been made teh Uber. Cap draining concorde and drones insta gone/lost lock.
Rule2k Fate.	Posted - 2007.05.12 19:02:00 - [20] Edited by: Rule2k on 12/05/2007 19:00:11

tekit RONA Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.12 19:14:00 - [21] yaaarrr fate
ReePeR McAllem The Carebear Stare	Posted - 2007.05.12 19:27:00 - [22] Somebody so gotta post a blank KM of what was lost. if there was 16bill in there. How much of it survived?
Kadarin Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.12 19:32:00 - [23] How was the salvage?
Dolika Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.05.12 19:35:00 - [24] Here's a link to a rather heated discussion (especially on the side of the pirating part of the community) on the empire freighter gankage issue: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=515649&page=1
shivan Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.05.12 19:42:00 - [25] link for the lazy ------------------ RAM KB
Slithysss	Posted - 2007.05.12 19:58:00 - [26] Looks like a minnie freighter, more likely it just fell apart [ Will strip for ore :D ]
Firane 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.05.12 19:59:00 - [27] This has never happened before! -----
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.05.12 20:08:00 - [28] Player killers are griefing the freighter community! To the petition mobile! --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune
weebls	Posted - 2007.05.12 20:14:00 - [29] This freighter was of a heavily suspected isk seller, so I don't think anyone but him is shedding any tears.
Brisi Veto.	Posted - 2007.05.12 20:20:00 - [30] Originally by: SE1X Well on the test server it looks like Concord has been made teh Uber. Cap draining concorde and drones insta gone/lost lock. I wish I could say I was surprised. Resistance is Fertile.

weebls	Posted - 2007.05.12 20:30:00 - [31] Well it may not be good for the gangsta minded, but as it currently stands I don't believe you can protect a freighter effectively in hi-sec even with an escort. The gank squad can warp in with no warning and the sluggishness of the freighter gives ample time window to engage. Once the fight has started the lag from ships, drones, and Concord is so bad it's difficult to do anything. The only thing that works fine through the lag is the drones. People who are saying you can protect a freighter with an escort (that can't engage first) are dreaming.
Apollyon X FIRMA	Posted - 2007.05.12 20:51:00 - [32] how is it even possible to instapop a freighter dont they have a massive amount of hitpoints?
Ethaet	Posted - 2007.05.12 20:52:00 - [33] Originally by: Apollyon X how is it even possible to instapop a freighter dont they have a massive amount of hitpoints? 0.5 sec system = concord are slow. As to why he was there, perhaps the ice field there? I saw the all the concord and have a few nice screenshots :)
Xtreem Gallente Fire Mandrill	Posted - 2007.05.12 21:12:00 - [34] i wanna see what got popped and what servived!
000Hunter000 Gallente Magners Marauders	Posted - 2007.05.12 21:13:00 - [35] sigh.. u all will know this will end badly... ganking people in hi sec will be put on the ban list... the hi sec freighter ganksquad will just make it that ccp bans suicide ganking all together and that i think won't help anyone Mebbe ccp should put something on the news, about roaming squads of bs beeing spotted shooting freighters, so people who never read the forums atleast know what to expect and have a choice of taking the risk or not. CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!!
Blind Man Kemono.	Posted - 2007.05.12 21:14:00 - [36] Edited by: Blind Man on 12/05/2007 21:12:01 Originally by: Brisi Originally by: SE1X Well on the test server it looks like Concord has been made teh Uber. Cap draining concorde and drones insta gone/lost lock. I wish I could say I was surprised. haha, ftw.. POTBS here I come..
weebls	Posted - 2007.05.12 21:42:00 - [37] Originally by: Apollyon X how is it even possible to instapop a freighter dont they have a massive amount of hitpoints? Freighters are roughly 150,000-200,000 hp including hull, armor and shields. Depending on the freighter. Concord takes 15 seconds to arrive. This particular op used only 13 ships, almost all of which were hired mercs. With good drone skills it's about 400-450 dps per ship just from drones. On top of drone damage is the roughly 4000 hp of damage from guns for each ship. So it's less than 20 seconds to kill from a dps point of view. Variables that stretch that out some are target proximity and how close together everybody agros. Regardless, it's very quick.
SchirmerN Amarr WKK Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.12 22:45:00 - [38] Give us that killmail! Want to see what he lost
Ninjja Minmatar Mortis Angelus	Posted - 2007.05.12 22:51:00 - [39] bout time these farkin freighters got their just desserts. Flying around all slow making billions while cruising the forums. these mafia mammoths needed to be stopped! Anyone willing to deliver a few phoons to me in low-sec? kthxbye </sarcasm> Maybe i should start an escort service. seems a big need for one. :)
Ithaca Gallente The Devil's Rejects	Posted - 2007.05.12 23:15:00 - [40] Edited by: Ithaca on 12/05/2007 23:15:57 The Fenrir Freighter in question was killed just after DT today by a collection of Mercs and other pod pilots. This was a contracted operation with the sole desire for the players freighter to be destroyed. Pilots were chosen for their ability to fly dominixes and use Ogre drones. The target concerned was known to fly the trade route in question everyday after DT, so setting the trap was easy. Getting everyone organized from different time zones and corps was the hard part. I wont mention any names here so i don't let slip anyone who wishes to remain anonymous. Apart from that congratulations to everyone involved for a successful operation. Ithaca The Devil's Rejects CEO Recruitment

gfldex Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.12 23:42:00 - [41] Originally by: weebls but as it currently stands I don't believe you can protect a freighter effectively in hi-sec even with an escort. Killing a freighter with 20 domies takes about 40 sec. Whereby 20 domis with 5 remote repair bots and 3 large remote repairers pump out more then 150'000 armor (not structure) HP in that 40 sec. As it would take longer to take the remote tanked freighter down it looks even better for the escort. It is not only possible, it's even fairly easy. -- There are countless games in the world. There are at least as many ppl that dont like one or more rules of said games. That never stopped smart game designers from creating good games.
Galk Gallente Autumn Tactics All the things she said	Posted - 2007.05.13 00:21:00 - [42] Originally by: gfldex It is not only possible, it's even fairly easy. Aside the lag and the loss of actualy being able to activate ones modules Numberd tbh, the guys thats are losing to this are long term eve subbers, guys that ccp know they have to keep cush.... you know they care about them the most... when they 'change' it so yus can't ______
Del Narveux Obsidian Angels Enterprises	Posted - 2007.05.13 00:29:00 - [43] Originally by: SE1X Well on the test server it looks like Concord has been made teh Uber. Cap draining concorde and drones insta gone/lost lock. If they implement the second one, all will be well. The problem here isnt that people are ganking in highsec, its that when you do it with a particular ship concord doesnt function the way its supposed to (i.e. shutting down your firepower). _________________ [SAK] Alumnus--And Proud Of It! -- aka Cpt Bogus Is that my torped sig cloaking your base? Originally by: Wrangler Well, at least we have forum PvP..
weebls	Posted - 2007.05.13 00:41:00 - [44] Killing a freighter with 20 domies takes about 40 sec. Whereby 20 domis with 5 remote repair bots and 3 large remote repairers pump out more then 150'000 armor (not structure) HP in that 40 sec. As it would take longer to take the remote tanked freighter down it looks even better for the escort. It is not only possible, it's even fairly easy. You're numbers are a bit off. We only had 13 people, only about 2/3 with T2 drones. People aggressed over about a 10 second span, but even so the freighter died in 30 seconds. With some practice I'm sure we could have gotten that closer to 20 seconds. If you think you could have an escort launch repair drones, target the repair target, get the drones within repair range and then wait the 10 seconds for the repair cycle to complete before the freighter was dead in the midst of ferocious lag you are highly optimistic. My guess is that with pilot response times, lag and targetting delays you might not actually repair any damage at all before the freighter was dead, let alone 150,000 armor (of which there is only about 27k armor to repair). And you are proposing to escort the freighter around with 20 pilots all the time? that's totally unrealistic. A few more attackers and the freighter will die so fast there is no time to do any armor repping at all no matter how many armor reps you bring.
Canine Fiend Minmatar Gekidoku Koroshiya Buntai	Posted - 2007.05.13 00:56:00 - [45] I'm confused as to why he didn't dock. He looked pretty close to the station. -------------------
Aille Pluthrak Caldari Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.13 01:04:00 - [46] Originally by: SE1X Well on the test server it looks like Concord has been made teh Uber. Cap draining concorde and drones insta gone/lost lock. Why not just save themseleves the coding effort of making Concord uber and just insta pop anyone in Empire that even looks at another player funny in high sec. ---------------------- Boom goes the ship! Squish goes the pilot!
Stakhanov Shih Yang Tong	Posted - 2007.05.13 01:12:00 - [47] It's one of those evil stations that drop you 4km away from docking range...
gfldex Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.13 04:23:00 - [48] Originally by: weebls If you think you could have an escort launch repair drones, target the repair target, get the drones within repair range and then wait the 10 seconds for the repair cycle to complete before the freighter was dead in the midst of ferocious lag you are highly optimistic. My guess is that with pilot response times, lag and targetting delays you might not actually repair any damage at all before the freighter was dead, let alone 150,000 armor (of which there is only about 27k armor to repair). Ogres got an effective range of about 2.5km. Whereby repair bots got a range of 10km. Lag applies to the attacker as well. I'm not going to do all the math here but taking down a remote tanked ship will take a lot more time then for a untanked ship. Your problem is that you guess. I login on Sisi and make a test befor I judge game mechanics. Originally by: weebls And you are proposing to escort the freighter around with 20 pilots all the time? that's totally unrealistic. Why? Originally by: weebls A few more attackers and the freighter will die so fast there is no time to do any armor repping at all no matter how many armor reps you bring. As long as you cant kill him within the remote repair cycle time you can keep him alive forever. I seen a lot ships insta pop but nothing was bigger then a BC. Even 50 tec 2 snipers with sensor boosters running cant really insta pop a BS, not to speak about a freighter. -- There are countless games in the world. There are at least as many ppl that dont like one or more rules of said games. That never stopped smart game designers from creating good games.
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific Interstellar Corporate Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.13 04:27:00 - [49] Edited by: Jinx Barker on 13/05/2007 04:25:36 Originally by: Rule2k Edited by: Rule2k on 12/05/2007 19:13:22 http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r176/toomywins/4-2.jpg http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r176/toomywins/3-1.jpg http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r176/toomywins/2-1.jpg http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r176/toomywins/1-1.jpg You are a bad, bad, bad man.... Hi Rule o/ Edit: Did you get it frapped?
Le Skunk Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.13 04:34:00 - [50] Edited by: Le Skunk on 13/05/2007 04:33:09 Ive persoanly killed two freighters in 20 minutes in empire. In the last three weeks three freighters have been suicide ganked. Whats all the bloody fuss about. You carebears get worse. What next " MERLIN DOWN IN LV 1 MISSION" SKUNK

Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.05.13 05:14:00 - [51] I hope ccp doesnt make this sort of thing go away. Forcing people into low sec or 0.0 for all pvp is not a good idea. Then they have basically removed any pvp where the opponent is not prepared for it. I know some people think this would be perfect, but do you really want a game where you are safe at all times and just grind isk? It sounds very boring to me. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune
ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.13 06:30:00 - [52] Well tbh that what empire wars are for, you want to have pvp in empire, fine. Just pay the war fees.
Erichk Knaar Caldari Maelstrom Crew	Posted - 2007.05.13 06:37:00 - [53] As my compadre, Ithaca, pointed out above, this was a contracted hit. This was not griefing random freighter pilots. This was a specific hit at a specific point in time. This is not likely a regular occurence, so, why should it be protected? GJ all who took part.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.05.13 06:51:00 - [54] Originally by: ghosttr Well tbh that what empire wars are for, you want to have pvp in empire, fine. Just pay the war fees. I want terrorism to remain in Eve. Terrorists dont pay war fees. There is a massive difference between fighting a war and making terrorist attacks. I want both these things to remain in Eve, not just one of them. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.05.13 07:14:00 - [55] Originally by: Minnu Originally by: Ker Ching I wasn't there, but I wanted to reply before SiJira did. Alt Posting Is bad mkay? And why that? This isn't the alliance forum.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.05.13 08:04:00 - [56] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: ghosttr Well tbh that what empire wars are for, you want to have pvp in empire, fine. Just pay the war fees. I want terrorism to remain in Eve. Terrorists dont pay war fees. There is a massive difference between fighting a war and making terrorist attacks. I want both these things to remain in Eve, not just one of them. How many insurance companies cover terrorists for their losses? Or how many will offer life insurance to a suicide bomber. That's what i thought. Sick of the waits with empire research slots? Use mine!
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.05.13 08:14:00 - [57] Originally by: Ricdic Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: ghosttr Well tbh that what empire wars are for, you want to have pvp in empire, fine. Just pay the war fees. I want terrorism to remain in Eve. Terrorists dont pay war fees. There is a massive difference between fighting a war and making terrorist attacks. I want both these things to remain in Eve, not just one of them. How many insurance companies cover terrorists for their losses? Or how many will offer life insurance to a suicide bomber. That's what i thought. If you want to do real life analogies, how many real suicide terrorists are killed by the police? In Eve, we dont even have real suiciders. What we have is the almighty Concord that magically appears with their ships of doom and kills these players when they attack other players. So lets change the game so you can escape concord in empire and then talk about removing the insurance for getting bbq'ed. Dont want to do that? Didnt think so. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune
Zahril Minmatar	Posted - 2007.05.13 08:26:00 - [58] Originally by: Blind Man Edited by: Blind Man on 12/05/2007 21:12:01 Originally by: Brisi Originally by: SE1X Well on the test server it looks like Concord has been made teh Uber. Cap draining concorde and drones insta gone/lost lock. I wish I could say I was surprised. haha, ftw.. POTBS here I come.. QFT I¦m not and never have been member of Privateers and still that wardec change annoyed me because I thought it was way too severe. This week we had a CCP Dev replying to one of the whine threads how EVE isn¦t ment to just look dark and cruel but it¦s ment to be that. And at the same time they are boosting Concord on test server. Yet again I have never suicide ganked anyone either but I want to have it as real option. Because what makes this game fun for me is the amount of control players have and the sandbox aspect. Limiting that freedom has direct effect on the amount of enjoyment I get from this game. I hate the "EVE sucks I¦m going to game XXX" but this stuff really makes me think that I should go back to games that never have pretended to be anything else than carebear paradise. At least then I knew exactly what direction the game is going to be going.
Secret Spy	Posted - 2007.05.13 08:27:00 - [59] There is no way on earth the freighter could have been protected,the second he undocked from the station he was pretty much dead. No time to turn around and dock as freighters are really slow. Ogres once told to attack will not stop regardless of how many concorde break the lock of the aggressing ships. SMartbombs would not work near a station, and I think it was less than 30 secs for the target to have been killed. The lag was about 0.3 fps and before the drones had even hit the target the shields and armour had been taken down with large blasters. The ogres T1 and T2 mixed made very short work of the hull. I'm sorry but until CCP drastically change something freighters are NOT protectable in an empire environment.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.05.13 08:32:00 - [60] Originally by: Secret Spy I'm sorry but until CCP drastically change something freighters are NOT protectable in an empire environment. and remember this was only 13 domi's! I would use several freighters with only a few billions in each one instead of waiting for the game to solve this problem for me. I suggest you do the same. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune

Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.05.13 08:45:00 - [61] Originally by: gfldex Originally by: weebls If you think you could have an escort launch repair drones, target the repair target, get the drones within repair range and then wait the 10 seconds for the repair cycle to complete before the freighter was dead in the midst of ferocious lag you are highly optimistic. My guess is that with pilot response times, lag and targetting delays you might not actually repair any damage at all before the freighter was dead, let alone 150,000 armor (of which there is only about 27k armor to repair). Ogres got an effective range of about 2.5km. Whereby repair bots got a range of 10km. Lag applies to the attacker as well. I'm not going to do all the math here but taking down a remote tanked ship will take a lot more time then for a untanked ship. Your problem is that you guess. I login on Sisi and make a test befor I judge game mechanics. You now perfectly that Sisi is no good to test lag. Or you will offer 60-70 players of BOB to to run around in system doing mission and mining to create a credible lag situation? Originally by: gfldex Originally by: weebls And you are proposing to escort the freighter around with 20 pilots all the time? that's totally unrealistic. Why? Because doing that for someone that hasn't a war dec active and isn't moving 10-20 billions of materials, where at least 75% is profit (so a T2 producer), the cost of the escort nullifies any gain.
Nicholai Pestot Gallente Havoc Inc	Posted - 2007.05.13 09:10:00 - [62] Originally by: Venkul Mul Because doing that for someone that hasn't a war dec active and isn't moving 10-20 billions of materials, where at least 75% is profit (so a T2 producer), the cost of the escort nullifies any gain. If the profit/value of your transport run isn't enough to justify the cost of someone scouting ahead in a frigate, then you shouldn't be using a freighter. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.05.13 09:13:00 - [63] Originally by: Nicholai Pestot Originally by: Venkul Mul Because doing that for someone that hasn't a war dec active and isn't moving 10-20 billions of materials, where at least 75% is profit (so a T2 producer), the cost of the escort nullifies any gain. If the profit/value of your transport run isn't enough to justify the cost of someone scouting ahead in a frigate, then you shouldn't be using a freighter. Exacly. I dont know why people think "20 armed battleships" when they think escort. The lag makes it impossible to actually protect the freighter anyway, so just be smart and use a simple scout and perhaps several freighters to spread the risk. This "problem" has went way out of proportion. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune
Secret Spy	Posted - 2007.05.13 09:25:00 - [64] The way this hit was set up he could have had 30 scouts and it wouldn't have made any difference :)
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.05.13 09:56:00 - [65] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Secret Spy I'm sorry but until CCP drastically change something freighters are NOT protectable in an empire environment. and remember this was only 13 domi's! I would use several freighters with only a few billions in each one instead of waiting for the game to solve this problem for me. I suggest you do the same. I do agree with this. I try to never carry more than 1b worth of stock in my freighter at any one time, especially when going anywhere near Jita and other large hubs. I don't believe freighters should be given slots, nor do i believe they should be harder to kill. But i still believe (and have believed even well before the whole freigter suicide issue) that all concord related deaths should not have insurance paid out. Sick of the waits with empire research slots? Use mine!
Ithaca Gallente The Devil's Rejects	Posted - 2007.05.13 10:05:00 - [66] Although i took part in this, I personally do think the system atm is a little swayed in the balance of gankers. Hopefully with the changes on the test server, this kind of thing will become a lot more difficult in future. Not impossible, but will require a lot more than just 13 dominixes. Was fun though. Recruitment
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.05.13 10:33:00 - [67] Originally by: Ricdic Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Secret Spy I'm sorry but until CCP drastically change something freighters are NOT protectable in an empire environment. and remember this was only 13 domi's! I would use several freighters with only a few billions in each one instead of waiting for the game to solve this problem for me. I suggest you do the same. I do agree with this. I try to never carry more than 1b worth of stock in my freighter at any one time, especially when going anywhere near Jita and other large hubs. I don't believe freighters should be given slots, nor do i believe they should be harder to kill. But i still believe (and have believed even well before the whole freigter suicide issue) that all concord related deaths should not have insurance paid out. Actually, I do believe freighters should have slots. If people want to attack them, fine, but why on Earth should they be utterly defenseless? Massive cargo capacity should not mitigate the ability to actually protect it themselves. One high slot, three mid and three low slots is pretty par for the course for industrial ships. Why this need to have the most valuable ships be the most vulnerable? Would you strip Titans of its slots and have the Doomsday device a built in ability? This is my sig, there are many others just like it. With me, my sig is worthless. Without (or with even) my sig, I am worthless...
Del Narveux Obsidian Angels Enterprises	Posted - 2007.05.13 10:37:00 - [68] Edited by: Del Narveux on 13/05/2007 10:35:29 Originally by: Jim McGregor I would use several freighters with only a few billions in each one instead of waiting for the game to solve this problem for me. I suggest you do the same. So by your logic, nanophoons that go 5km+/sec shoudlnt have been nerfed...because theyre there? Its the same thing, dont get me wrong Im not 'anti gank' but the freighter ganking is being done using a method that bypasses the system put in place to prevent it (or make it difficult, whatever). In short, concord (or more accurately, drones not getting hit by the same pwnsauce as player ships) is not working as intended, and needs to be fixed to bring drone warfare more in line with regular guns. I dont even care if they extend concords response time or something, but if someone tries to gank someone in empire they need to get FUBARed after X seconds, drones or not. BTW, regarding people who say concord kills shouldnt be insured, I kinda see your point but the problem there is sometimes people attack during the flag wearing off (it doesnt show on overview and stuff, has happened to me in the past) and others who exploit concord in various ways to achieve the same effect on their enemies. It would just make a mess of petitions, though maybe giving like only 75% insurance or something might be a good compromise. This would make t1 suicide BS considerably less profitable, but still I say bringing drones in line with everything else in terms of concordoken-ness is the better solution. _________________ [SAK] Alumnus--And Proud Of It! -- aka Cpt Bogus Is that my torped sig cloaking your base? Originally by: Wrangler Well, at least we have forum PvP..
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.05.13 10:49:00 - [69] Originally by: Del Narveux Edited by: Del Narveux on 13/05/2007 10:35:29 Originally by: Jim McGregor I would use several freighters with only a few billions in each one instead of waiting for the game to solve this problem for me. I suggest you do the same. So by your logic, nanophoons that go 5km+/sec shoudlnt have been nerfed...because theyre there? Its the same thing, dont get me wrong Im not 'anti gank' but the freighter ganking is being done using a method that bypasses the system put in place to prevent it (or make it difficult, whatever). In short, concord (or more accurately, drones not getting hit by the same pwnsauce as player ships) is not working as intended, and needs to be fixed to bring drone warfare more in line with regular guns. I dont even care if they extend concords response time or something, but if someone tries to gank someone in empire they need to get FUBARed after X seconds, drones or not. BTW, regarding people who say concord kills shouldnt be insured, I kinda see your point but the problem there is sometimes people attack during the flag wearing off (it doesnt show on overview and stuff, has happened to me in the past) and others who exploit concord in various ways to achieve the same effect on their enemies. It would just make a mess of petitions, though maybe giving like only 75% insurance or something might be a good compromise. This would make t1 suicide BS considerably less profitable, but still I say bringing drones in line with everything else in terms of concordoken-ness is the better solution. I was talking about the freighter ganking. You cant use the same solution to other problems in the game. And yes, concord not hitting drones should be fixed, but now it looks like ccp also will boost concord damage and take other measures to make sure this sort of thing never happens. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.05.13 11:01:00 - [70] Freighters get given 3 rig slots Add this to the freighter description Penalty: For every rig module in use, cargo capacity is reduced by 25% Sick of the waits with empire research slots? Use mine!

Cipher7 Keepers of the Holy Bagel SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.13 11:31:00 - [71] Originally by: Ricdic But i still believe (and have believed even well before the whole freigter suicide issue) that all concord related deaths should not have insurance paid out. In that case Concord should act like a real police agency and take 20 minutes to arrive, and you should be able to warp around and escape it. Piracy and Terrorism should be part of Eve. They are not easy to pull off, so why should they be penalize? If anything let's penalize mission runners for making billions in empire risk free.
Lo Han Minmatar The Spiders From Mars Zzz	Posted - 2007.05.13 11:41:00 - [72] I fly a freighter, have since they were out, having built my own. I use mine as a convenient collector and don't think I have ever had even 1bn worth since I have played the game, not good with isk :) The fact that my ship, is now at risk from gankers is really part of the game. People have become obsessed with collecting isk amd making eve as safe as possible. If you want safe, play WOW. I know that my freighter is relatively worthless, one scan and people wont waste their time. If you can afford to have 16 bn in your freighter, then like any RL gold reserve shipment, get protection or say hi to the bandits.
Khul Drukath Maelstrom Crew	Posted - 2007.05.13 11:58:00 - [73] This freighter kill was a contracted hit overseen by Maelstrom Crew. We were responsible for organising the man power for the operation, with the pilots that were hired coming from a total of 8 different corporations. I won't reveal the names of those involved, although they are free to advertise themselves of course, but I would like to thank every pilot that was hired in the operation. I know you were being well paid, but the professionalism that you handled yourselves with was top rate. In accordance to all MCrew operations the contracted was completed smack-free. I would like to address a number of points that have been raised in this thread, in the hope that it will better shed some light on why we accepted this contract. I am a firm believer in the term "High Security". Secure space is not the same as safe space. There are repurcussions that deter you from taking certain actions, but these actions are not preventative. You have a freedom of choice here. I like the idea that this game allows the freedom of choice for someone to strike back at those that have agrieved them (one reason why our clients' anonymity is protected unless they choose to reveal themselves). I'm not interested in the reasons or history behind it (it is not my place to judge) but in my experience it takes a pretty strong event to have occurred for people to hire mercenaries. I like that people cannot hurt other people and then hide behind game mechanics. It makes everyone accountable at all times. Ricidc - I agree with you that insurance should not be paid out for ships that are lost to CONCORD. It makes perfect sense to me that ships lost through criminal actions should forfeit this right. After all such an action must be a deliberate attempt to lose your ship, as if you do not then you have exploited the CONCORD mechanic. That said I do not feel that this will wholly prevent incidences like this from occurring. I cannot discuss contract specifics, but I can say that there is no way any mercenary corporation in their right mind would take on a contract which resulted in the definte loss of material without having quoted for compensation for this material loss. Thus the expense will always be upon the client. I don't think this will turn many people off of hitting freighters because these guys are still happy to cart around crazy sums of cash with no escort. I'm wondering if the contracted hit was even afk as his pod remianed outside the station for over 5 minutes stationary. However this proposed change in mechanics will affect everyone else in highsec that has an accidental friendly fire incident. Missioning with a friend and you accidentally target and shoot him in your mission Raven? Well now you are 100m further out of pocket. I do not know the number of petitions that CCP already have to deal with over friendly fire accidents, but i envisage it would be a lot more without the insurance safety net. In this incident a single scout in a shuttle sat outside the station would have helped. If you had xx billions of isk in your freighter and 14 dominix turned up at the exit point would you run the risk of undocking? The incident was frapsed and to my knowledge is being worked on now. Until then I have a few more screenshots. 14 Dominix on Scanner (27k) The attack begins (140k) CONCORD late to the party (130k) Bees? (240k) Client's freighter takes the loot (110k) Aftermath (500k) The End (180k) Let Us Fight Your Battles
Discordant dreams	Posted - 2007.05.13 12:00:00 - [74] I've have only started shifting bulk freight around recently, and still do not move things in the volumes the large freighters can(im only in an industrial II). But I still accept that there is a risk of piracy in any system and try to have a couple of scout frigates checking out the planned routes before I even undock. Its inevitable that there will be a situation that is impossible to avoid if you leave HQ and the only thing you will be able to do is buy off the pirates or sit in base and hope your buyer is understanding And if things get too bad then break up the load and ship it via third parties. :D
weebls	Posted - 2007.05.13 12:53:00 - [75] Originally by: gfldex Originally by: weebls If you think you could have an escort launch repair drones, target the repair target, get the drones within repair range and then wait Ihe 10 seconds for the repair cycle to complete before the freighter was dead in the midst of ferocious lag you are highly optimistic. My guess is that with pilot response times, lag and targetting delays you might not actually repair any damage at all before the freighter was dead, let alone 150,000 armor (of which there is only about 27k armor to repair). Ogres got an effective range of about 2.5km. Whereby repair bots got a range of 10km. Lag applies to the attacker as well. I'm not going to do all the math here but taking down a remote tanked ship will take a lot more time then for a untanked ship. Your problem is that you guess. I login on Sisi and make a test befor I judge game mechanics. My problem is I guess? and you test things out on Sisi? ROFL. No I don't guess. I did this op, I SPENT the hours on Sisi. I've experienced the lag, and the pilot delays, and the real game mechanics. Don't pull out a badge of authority when you're just pushing numbers around on a plate. Go do that testing on Sisi that you talk about for real and then get back to me. The attackers have a huge advantage of surprise, and also placement. We dropped right on top of this guy without warning. Drones and blasters were already in range. Everybody already knew what they were going to do and were in the process of doing it. You expect an escort to respond instantly and flawlessly with a screen full of targets in less than 1fps lag and to be properly positioned after hours and days of following a freighter around on boring runs? And you are ignoring the 8-10 second repair cycle delay. To achieve what you envision you'd have to stagger all those reps to spread out the repair or the dps will just punch through the armor again and into the hull between cycles. It's unrealistic at best. Each Domi you bring to the table does 10,000 dmg in the first 15 seconds. Go rep that. In theory, theory is the same as practice. In practice it isn't.
weebls	Posted - 2007.05.13 13:13:00 - [76] I would like to add one point about this hit that is relevant with respect to it's being used as a data point in the hi-sec freighter killing discussion. This hit actually went into the planning stages before freighters were changed to drop loot. Loot was a bonus, but not the motivation for the hit. Also my thanks to Khul Drukath and crew for bringing the skills and professionalism to the job that made it successful. Especially impressive that they achieved it coming in cold with only about an hours briefing and prep before the hit. Congrats guys, a job very well done. Thank you.
Ilmonstre D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.13 13:16:00 - [77] i have to ahgree with ithica that it should be made harder to killa freighter in empire then with just 13 domi's it too cheap and to easy to do. if the changes from sisi will come into meffect it will be a good thing since you will need to put in more effport into it and use some creative thinking again or bring in alot more people to get it done or freighter pilots could also choose to use a station which doesnt put you outside of dockingrange when you undock from it that way you can see the hostile camp and redock fpor safety yntill you check it out some more
Nicoli Voldkif Caelli-Merced INC. Gunboat Diplomacy	Posted - 2007.05.13 13:22:00 - [78] I'd have to argue that a scout would have done anything. He gets a scout you sit your own outside the station in random ship. Dominixes sit out side of scan range aligned. Even if the freighter manages to get alligned and into warp. its .6Au/s warp speed allows you to catch it at the gate. Where the frieghter pilot has the choice to warp through and Die, or try and align back to the station and Die. Added cost of a whopping 1 pilot who doesn't lose his ship. Dominixes need to be brought inline with every other ship for suiciding which looks to be happening. After that we'll have to reevaluate the situation to see about any other changes.
Iyanah Minmatar Mining Munitions and Mayhem	Posted - 2007.05.13 13:25:00 - [79] Originally by: Rule2k Edited by: Rule2k on 12/05/2007 19:13:22 http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r176/toomywins/4-2.jpg http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r176/toomywins/3-1.jpg http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r176/toomywins/2-1.jpg http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r176/toomywins/1-1.jpg You're a bad, bad man, rule... ...i like you, as someone once said: you're my kind of scum :D ========================================== Iy
weebls	Posted - 2007.05.13 13:57:00 - [80] No a scout is not much of a deterrent, you place your Domi's out of scan range and warp in from there. It's also very easy to buy as much time as you need by undocking behind them with a bumper ship. Freighters are so sluggish you can easily push them away from the station and keep them from warping with a single ship pushing them around. In this case that wasn't needed because of the nature of the station. As Nicoli pointed out, escape to a gate is no escape at all. If the freighter is out of dock range and not in warp to another station, it's dead.

Laboratus Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen	Posted - 2007.05.13 14:20:00 - [81] Originally by: weebls No a scout is not much of a deterrent, you place your Domi's out of scan range and warp in from there. It's also very easy to buy as much time as you need by undocking behind them with a bumper ship. Freighters are so sluggish you can easily push them away from the station and keep them from warping with a single ship pushing them around. In this case that wasn't needed because of the nature of the station. As Nicoli pointed out, escape to a gate is no escape at all. If the freighter is out of dock range and not in warp to another station, it's dead. Ok, if you have a scout and a webber with you. With the webbers the freighter instawarps, so no chance of getting stuck there. If you see a huge load of domis, don't warp. If you have warped, just log out in warp. Freighters warp so slow, they disapear before exiting warp. With just a 3 man escort ganking a freighter is nigh impossible, if the escort does not **** up. But I guess most freighter pilots will rather take their chances than get an escort. ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
weebls	Posted - 2007.05.13 15:25:00 - [82] Originally by: Laboratus Ok, if you have a scout and a webber with you. With the webbers the freighter instawarps, so no chance of getting stuck there. If you see a huge load of domis, don't warp. If you have warped, just log out in warp. Freighters warp so slow, they disapear before exiting warp. With just a 3 man escort ganking a freighter is nigh impossible, if the escort does not **** up. But I guess most freighter pilots will rather take their chances than get an escort. A webber is only useful in the case where you are starting at zero velocity after jumping through a gate, It doesn't help when you are kicked out of the station at 300m/sec. It also would be trivial to disable the webber, thus eliminating the instant warp option. You have to remember that the aggressors can plan to counter any defense or escort you come up with since you can't hide what you are doing. Also proposing that the freighter pilot log out in warp and that CCP would consider that to be a viable game tactic is just lame. CCP will decide if they want to allow freighter ganking in hi-sec or not, or how difficult it should be, and they will change the game mechanics to make that happen. From the changes on test it would seem that they wish to make it extremely difficult if not impossible.
Lrrp Minmatar Gallente Mercantile Exchange	Posted - 2007.05.13 17:54:00 - [83] So where were all the non-associated pilots? All those juicy blinking red targets and no one else around the station was shooting them besides Concorde?
Drizit Amarr	Posted - 2007.05.13 18:09:00 - [84] From my point of view, it's not what cargo the Freighter carries that causes the main problem, your cargo is at risk no matter where you are and what ship you fly. What nags at me is that the insurance payout for the Freighter is less than half of the Freighters cost. That means the loss of cargo may be one thing but you have also got to make up over 700 million isk just to replace the freighter. The Domi's insurance on the other hand, is almost all of the value so the attackers are always the winners even if the Freighter is empty. They get their insurance to replace the Domi within 2 million but the freighter pilot is out by a considerable amount more. Even if the Domi pilots got no insurance, they would only be out by 100 million as compared to the 700 million of the Freighter pilot even though his insurance is paid out as normal. Therefore losing billions in cargo is a problem that could be avoided but losing several hundred million for the ship even though you are insured is impossible to avoid. I did consider buying one to carry minerals but I would never carry more than half the value of one BS at any time. Now I've seen how much I could lose from the insurance payout alone, I have discarded that idea. My guess is that a lot of others have also decided against buying Freighters as there seems to be a lot still on the market that have been there for some time. Manufacturers/sellers are therefore losing out, players are losing out and also CCP is losing out since people are still regarding the cargo drop addition as a highsec pirates paradise rather than a real advance for the game. Freighters were intended to help the traders but now it only creats a big target for more highsec ganking. --
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Requiem of Hades	Posted - 2007.05.13 18:38:00 - [85] What a sad day for the hauling community. I wish CCP would fix freighter griefing before we are driven away from this lovely game. I guess another one of ours bites the dust. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
Aidyn Avery	Posted - 2007.05.13 20:09:00 - [86] this ganking is the equivalent of thugs taking down a truck, ship or railroad in society. Those are the freighters in today's life. If someone did or tried to do it, the police would not let this happen, let alone again. why shouldnt concord be like that? This is high sec and supposedly policed, atm, it is anarachy, where the bigger guns are the thugs. If people want to fight, go to low sec, or war declare, otherwise this needs to be fixed where high sec is truly a police force worth anything...
Erichk Knaar Caldari Maelstrom Crew	Posted - 2007.05.13 20:26:00 - [87] Edited by: Erichk Knaar on 13/05/2007 20:24:45 Actually, truck hits do happen irl. Police react to crimes like this. They do not, at least where I live, have supernatural powers. I love how people are whining that this is the end of trade in Eve as we know it. It's an isolated incedent. You will need to tick someone off in quite a big way to get this level of attention for your freighter. Some enterprising pirates might do it for the pure profit potential, but it takes a fair amount of logistics to perform. I really dont see it becoming a regular, every freighter is in danger, type of situation.
Xelios Minmatar The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.05.13 20:31:00 - [88] Originally by: Aidyn Avery this ganking is the equivalent of thugs taking down a truck, ship or railroad in society. Those are the freighters in today's life. If someone did or tried to do it, the police would not let this happen, let alone again. why shouldnt concord be like that? This is high sec and supposedly policed, atm, it is anarachy, where the bigger guns are the thugs. If people want to fight, go to low sec, or war declare, otherwise this needs to be fixed where high sec is truly a police force worth anything... Hey I have a better idea, why don't we just make it impossible to activate any kind of weapon on another player in 0.5 or higher? It could be part of a patch called World of EVEcraft.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.05.13 22:43:00 - [89] Originally by: Aidyn Avery this ganking is the equivalent of thugs taking down a truck, ship or railroad in society. Those are the freighters in today's life. If someone did or tried to do it, the police would not let this happen, let alone again. why shouldnt concord be like that? This is high sec and supposedly policed, atm, it is anarachy, where the bigger guns are the thugs. If people want to fight, go to low sec, or war declare, otherwise this needs to be fixed where high sec is truly a police force worth anything... if someone in todays society was freighting goods with 0 defense and someone had the means and the numbers to rob them, then im sure they would have a little bit to keep the police off of them ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Pociomundo Gallente World Order The Imperial Order	Posted - 2007.05.13 23:39:00 - [90] Originally by: Le Skunk Edited by: Le Skunk on 13/05/2007 04:38:14 Edited by: Le Skunk on 13/05/2007 04:33:09 Ive persoanly killed two freighters in 20 minutes in empire. In the last three weeks three freighters have been suicide ganked. Whats all the bloody fuss about. You carebears get worse. What next " TRISTAN DOWN IN LV 1 MISSION" SKUNK I find it hilarious that you can call anyone a carebear after you started your own whine thread saying you were essentially going to quit EVE because warping took too long...

Anatolius Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.14 01:44:00 - [91] Originally by: Aidyn Avery this ganking is the equivalent of thugs taking down a truck, ship or railroad in society. Those are the freighters in today's life. If someone did or tried to do it, the police would not let this happen, let alone again. Funny, piracy on the world's oceans is presently a massive problem. Google it. As it were, I'd love to see what a coast guard cutter is going to do against a group of nutcases with a few dozen Iowa-class battleships. What, you wanted to bring real life into the argument, hey? "If God be for us, whom can be against us?"
syphurous Gallente	Posted - 2007.05.14 02:37:00 - [92] Loot, what was it ? Thats all we're clicking in here to find out. ______________________________
Stephar The High Priest	Posted - 2007.05.14 02:42:00 - [93] Originally by: Anatolius Funny, piracy on the world's oceans is presently a massive problem. Google it. As it were, I'd love to see what a coast guard cutter is going to do against a group of nutcases with a few dozen Iowa-class battleships. What, you wanted to bring real life into the argument, hey? Not sure what the coast guard dude would do, but I doubt he'd write the pirates a check afterwards reimbursing them for their sunken vessels.
weebls	Posted - 2007.05.14 02:47:00 - [94] Originally by: syphurous Loot, what was it ? Thats all we're clicking in here to find out. Oh come on, what would motivate a bunch of guys to get together and devote intense amounts of time, money, and training to finally make a suicide run? Why 72 Virgin Exotic Dancers for every man of course! Same as always.
Taikun Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2007.05.14 03:50:00 - [95] Edited by: Taikun on 14/05/2007 03:48:30 Originally by: Anatolius Funny, piracy on the world's oceans is presently a massive problem. Google it. So is violent sex attacks and kiddy pron. Google it. Just because it is there in real life doesn't make it a case for it to be in EvE. Taikun
Esiel Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.14 04:54:00 - [96] I love how everyone assumes that to have a freighter you need to be in a giant corp. I scrimped and saved and bought one on my own hard earned effort. Now I have a pile of people saying that I don't deserve it because I can't protect it. I can't guard it myself and I want to be able to do stuff on my own. I like being my own person and Eve told me there was a "safe" (not perfectly but mostly) place so I could use it. Just because you can get around the rules doesn't mean you should. In the end there can be only one.
Laboratus Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen	Posted - 2007.05.14 07:48:00 - [97] Originally by: weebls A webber is only useful in the case where you are starting at zero velocity after jumping through a gate, It doesn't help when you are kicked out of the station at 300m/sec. It also would be trivial to disable the webber, thus eliminating the instant warp option. You have to remember that the aggressors can plan to counter any defense or escort you come up with since you can't hide what you are doing. Moving a freighter without scout is risky at best, even if just undocking. And you can always just redock, if you must. None of this really matter since apparently concord pratically instapops everything on the test server. And that is lame. Consider a scout + minmatar/gall recon. Damps and webs, Sensor boost mods (mid or low) and a cloak. If the domi squad is on a gate your scout sees it and you don't go there. If it is on scanner and they have a tackler on the gate to keep the freighter there, you can just damp it to **** and the freighter escapes while the recon keeps it damped for a while, then cloaks and warps away. It will get away, before the domi squad gets there. It's not really possible to do both. To both be out of sight of the gate so that the scout does not see you and be on the gate, so that you will be there in time without the freighter escaping. Unless you are in 0.0 and got multiple bubbles up, but that is not quite what we are talking about here... ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Ryan Scouse'UK	Posted - 2007.05.14 08:44:00 - [98] Yarrrrr - Come on we all want to know what was 16bils worth of isk in this o so Shiny ship
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2007.05.14 10:28:00 - [99] It is a broken game mechanic that should have never been allowed to exist this long. It is literally an exploit. Not sure why CCP hasn;t done something about it sooner it isn;t like it adds anything to EVE in a romote way besides a cheap exploit for a very few players to make absurd money with no risk which obviously is not how CCP wants eve played. I guess CCP doesn;t like money. Suicide ganking in empire should not be profitable EVER.
Malcanis High4Life	Posted - 2007.05.14 10:49:00 - [100] Originally by: Esiel I love how everyone assumes that to have a freighter you need to be in a giant corp. I scrimped and saved and bought one on my own hard earned effort. Now I have a pile of people saying that I don't deserve it because I can't protect it. I can't guard it myself and I want to be able to do stuff on my own. I like being my own person and Eve told me there was a "safe" (not perfectly but mostly) place so I could use it. Just because you can get around the rules doesn't mean you should. Speaking of rules, here's one that I had drummed in to me right from the start: DON'T FLY WHAT YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO LOSE

Zantazar Caldari The Syndicate Inc DeStInY.	Posted - 2007.05.14 11:07:00 - [101] DON'T FLY WHAT YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO LOSE was the posted comment that prompted my input. A veritable delight, a true insight to the nature of this topic, and a significant leap forward to a conclusion to this discussion. Also, what I find absurd about a some of the 'pro gank' views that I have read, is the fact that some of you actually defend the fact that the insurance is paid out on the attacking ships. It appears (as usual) that rather than present a logical, global perspective on the debate, it is the "I base my view on what I want.." brigade. I digress. In my opinion; suicide ganking freighters should be permitted. There appears to be two main motives to do this. First spite, let's call it personal revenge motives (as seems to be in this case). Second profit, this speaks for itself, we all look for ways to make a profit. However, both should be subject to a higher cost to the attacker. No insurance payout to the aggressors, and (especially as freighters now can drop loot), a certain amount of defence capability implemented for the freighter itself. I can only think of some slots on the ship, this would need to be discussed/debated at CCP, in order to balance things up a bit. This way the freighter pilot can choose a "fit" for his ship, which the potential aggressors are not aware of in advance, creating a little more intrigue, rather than a fully predicted attack outcome. I do not think that allowing Concord to "instapop" ships is the answer. This would affect other situations that do not need nerfing. Can I ask for more balanced views to be presented. This is an interesting topic, let us try to adopt an overall outlook rather than a personal self greed/need view. Thank You I would sell my soul, my body, and my entire family for a Navy Raven. (Just kidding .... my soul is not for sale)
Reiaandra Ilin	Posted - 2007.05.14 16:17:00 - [102] I say give the freighter a drone bay. and/or decent resists. Its a friggin armored car for god's sakes
Thesas Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2007.05.14 16:54:00 - [103] The inequities that come from that premise are when new players not involved in conflicts get targeted indiscriminately. Random destruction of ships in high sec, where the new Eve citizens are actively developing their skills, is detrimental to the health of the new player. The paradigm of ônever fly what you can not afford to loseö is inappropriate in high sec because the majority of new players can ill afford to lose that which they fly. It is one thing to single out a freighter in high sec for a military strike. That is an action directed at ones enemy and the repercussions can be absorbed by the initiating organization. It is unbalancing to the game when new players are caught in the crossfire while flying ships which they are still training skills for and do not have the resources of the older players of ôback in the dayö to buffer their losses. Many new freighters and industrial ships travel Empire in the learning stage. To treat them to the full brunt of the lawlessness of the Eve frontier is a bit much for the new player to contend with. Empire should be a buffer to some small degree and the changes on test sound reasonable and measured. Time will tell if it has the desired effect but one thing is for certain. Eve needs the new people to grow to become the ruthless monsters of the future, without cutting them off at the knees before they become semi competent pilots.
Anna Sofia	Posted - 2007.05.14 17:29:00 - [104] Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 It is a broken game mechanic that should have never been allowed to exist this long. It is literally an exploit. Not sure why CCP hasn;t done something about it sooner it isn;t like it adds anything to EVE in a romote way besides a cheap exploit for a very few players to make absurd money with no risk which obviously is not how CCP wants eve played. I guess CCP doesn;t like money. Suicide ganking in empire should not be profitable EVER. I absolutely agreed until I realized that you were not talking about rich freighter pilots. Those huge ships are high-end content, and they should not be 100% safe as long as they are undocked.
Drizit Amarr	Posted - 2007.05.14 18:57:00 - [105] Edited by: Drizit on 14/05/2007 19:04:56 I have never been an advocate of completely abolishing suicide ganks. My view is that it should be balanced by risk. No insurance payouts for Concord ganks and cargo scans are not possible on Freighters. Freighters should also gain an insurance payout that is in line with current prices. The payout now is only 75% at most of the current average price across the whole of Empire. When you speak of more than a billion isk, 25% is a lot to lose for a Freighter pilot, even if you calculate it without the cargo. What they lose in cargo is the risk the Freighter pilots take for hauling so much value. They should not lose so much on the cost of replacing the ship if it is insured. This would add an element of risk without touching Concord and allowing Empire ganks to happen exactly as they have until now. When you take on a freighter, you stand to lose the cost of every attacking ship and take a gamble that the Freighter is carrying enough to make it worth the loss. The risk/reward factor would then be balanced and a good hit would profit well but a hit on an empty Freighter would hurt. This is the risk you take for doing it. Logistics/alt spies etc would reduce that risk but should never eliminate it. The quote "Don't fly what you can't afford to replace" should apply only to Lowsec and 0.0. Especially in 0.0 since, unless you fly to a NPC station and insure it, you lose the cost of the ship completely. However, the high rewards make it worth the risk there. This would enable new players to at least have some chance of getting on in the game. --
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.05.14 19:07:00 - [106] Originally by: Drizit Freighters should also gain an insurance payout that is in line with current prices. The payout now is only 75% at most of the current average price across the whole of Empire. When you speak of more than a billion isk, 25% is a lot to lose for a Freighter pilot, even without cargo. Maybe you should ask the BPO holders to lower their prices to better fit the insurance payout? /Ki Remember, kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
Drizit Amarr	Posted - 2007.05.14 19:09:00 - [107] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Drizit Freighters should also gain an insurance payout that is in line with current prices. The payout now is only 75% at most of the current average price across the whole of Empire. When you speak of more than a billion isk, 25% is a lot to lose for a Freighter pilot, even without cargo. Maybe you should ask the BPO holders to lower their prices to better fit the insurance payout? /Ki Maybe this will happen anyway since Freighter sales have dropped considerably since these ganks have taken place. Sellers will have to start dropping prices just to sell them. --
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Requiem of Hades	Posted - 2007.05.14 19:09:00 - [108] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Drizit Freighters should also gain an insurance payout that is in line with current prices. The payout now is only 75% at most of the current average price across the whole of Empire. When you speak of more than a billion isk, 25% is a lot to lose for a Freighter pilot, even without cargo. Maybe you should ask the BPO holders to lower their prices to better fit the insurance payout? /Ki Maybe you should ask CCP to fix drohn abuse. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.05.14 19:11:00 - [109] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Drizit Freighters should also gain an insurance payout that is in line with current prices. The payout now is only 75% at most of the current average price across the whole of Empire. When you speak of more than a billion isk, 25% is a lot to lose for a Freighter pilot, even without cargo. Maybe you should ask the BPO holders to lower their prices to better fit the insurance payout? /Ki Maybe you should ask CCP to fix drohn abuse. Why should I ask that? It's not like I think it's broken. Fix the insurance payout (which I agree with) and you're set. /Ki Remember, kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Requiem of Hades	Posted - 2007.05.14 19:15:00 - [110] Originally by: Ki An Why should I ask that? It's not like I think it's broken. Fix the insurance payout (which I agree with) and you're set. /Ki You try to suicide gank people in high sec and Concord arrive and jam you but your drones still attack the gankee. What isn't broken? --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.

Savage Creampuff Caldari Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.14 20:58:00 - [111] Originally by: Thesas The inequities that come from that premise are when new players not involved in conflicts get targeted indiscriminately. Random destruction of ships in high sec, where the new Eve citizens are actively developing their skills, is detrimental to the health of the new player. The paradigm of ônever fly what you can not afford to loseö is inappropriate in high sec because the majority of new players can ill afford to lose that which they fly. It is one thing to single out a freighter in high sec for a military strike. That is an action directed at ones enemy and the repercussions can be absorbed by the initiating organization. It is unbalancing to the game when new players are caught in the crossfire while flying ships which they are still training skills for and do not have the resources of the older players of ôback in the dayö to buffer their losses. Many new freighters and industrial ships travel Empire in the learning stage. To treat them to the full brunt of the lawlessness of the Eve frontier is a bit much for the new player to contend with. Empire should be a buffer to some small degree and the changes on test sound reasonable and measured. Time will tell if it has the desired effect but one thing is for certain. Eve needs the new people to grow to become the ruthless monsters of the future, without cutting them off at the knees before they become semi competent pilots. Hey mon, you be puffin too much of de gange methinks It takes a month to train a new char into a freighter ('cause you have no learning skills or implants or skills to use implants). Then there is the billion isk to actually buy the uber hauler. Where did Mr.Noob get a bill? Nobody was handing out free billions when I was starting out. If you're a noob in a freighter, you're an alt of a older character and therefore not a noob. Which means you should kinda know how the game works. Now, I think the field is slanted in the gankers favor and the gankees could use a little (and I mean little) love but I have no sympathy what so ever for the the gankees until I hear of someone actually trying scouts, escorts, and the like, just basically taking personal responsibility for protecting their assets. Quote: I've sent in plenty of petitions but it seems that CCP just doesn't care about me. Without knowledge of market dynamics theres no way I can compete with these griefers
frihetskjemper	Posted - 2007.07.26 11:18:00 - [112] Originally by: Laboratus Originally by: weebls No a scout is not much of a deterrent, you place your Domi's out of scan range and warp in from there. It's also very easy to buy as much time as you need by undocking behind them with a bumper ship. Freighters are so sluggish you can easily push them away from the station and keep them from warping with a single ship pushing them around. In this case that wasn't needed because of the nature of the station. As Nicoli pointed out, escape to a gate is no escape at all. If the freighter is out of dock range and not in warp to another station, it's dead. Ok, if you have a scout and a webber with you. With the webbers the freighter instawarps, so no chance of getting stuck there. If you see a huge load of domis, don't warp. If you have warped, just log out in warp. Freighters warp so slow, they disapear before exiting warp. With just a 3 man escort ganking a freighter is nigh impossible, if the escort does not **** up. But I guess most freighter pilots will rather take their chances than get an escort. That is the ending solution for all freighters to make escort friend.
Ki An Gallente KDM Corp Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.07.26 11:43:00 - [113] Originally by: frihetskjemper That is the ending solution for all freighters to make escort friend. Please stop necroing old threads about this issue. If you feel so strongly about it, post in one of the newer ones, or make your own thread. /Ki Remember kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
Methem The Hand of Mortis	Posted - 2007.07.26 11:49:00 - [114] Edited by: Methem on 26/07/2007 11:49:40 so .. wheres the killmail? edit: opps .. kindof necro
frihetskjemper	Posted - 2007.07.26 19:26:00 - [115] Originally by: Savage Creampuff Originally by: Thesas The inequities that come from that premise are when new players not involved in conflicts get targeted indiscriminately. Random destruction of ships in high sec, where the new Eve citizens are actively developing their skills, is detrimental to the health of the new player. The paradigm of ônever fly what you can not afford to loseö is inappropriate in high sec because the majority of new players can ill afford to lose that which they fly. It is one thing to single out a freighter in high sec for a military strike. That is an action directed at ones enemy and the repercussions can be absorbed by the initiating organization. It is unbalancing to the game when new players are caught in the crossfire while flying ships which they are still training skills for and do not have the resources of the older players of ôback in the dayö to buffer their losses. Many new freighters and industrial ships travel Empire in the learning stage. To treat them to the full brunt of the lawlessness of the Eve frontier is a bit much for the new player to contend with. Empire should be a buffer to some small degree and the changes on test sound reasonable and measured. Time will tell if it has the desired effect but one thing is for certain. Eve needs the new people to grow to become the ruthless monsters of the future, without cutting them off at the knees before they become semi competent pilots. Hey mon, you be puffin too much of de gange methinks It takes a month to train a new char into a freighter ('cause you have no learning skills or implants or skills to use implants). Then there is the billion isk to actually buy the uber hauler. Where did Mr.Noob get a bill? Nobody was handing out free billions when I was starting out. If you're a noob in a freighter, you're an alt of a older character and therefore not a noob. Which means you should kinda know how the game works. Now, I think the field is slanted in the gankers favor and the gankees could use a little (and I mean little) love but I have no sympathy what so ever for the the gankees until I hear of someone actually trying scouts, escorts, and the like, just basically taking personal responsibility for protecting their assets. You say correct precaution makes less headache?
frihetskjemper	Posted - 2007.07.26 20:56:00 - [116] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Ki An Why should I ask that? It's not like I think it's broken. Fix the insurance payout (which I agree with) and you're set. /Ki You try to suicide gank people in high sec and Concord arrive and jam you but your drones still attack the gankee. What isn't broken? Unprotected freighter pilot brain is not on list.
Osamma BenLaden	Posted - 2007.08.16 22:21:00 - [117] Just let freighters equip a DDD
SiJira	Posted - 2007.08.16 22:22:00 - [118] Originally by: Osamma BenLaden Just let freighters equip a DDD excellent necro ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2007.08.16 22:26:00 - [119] not this feckikng thread again SKUNK Originally by: Jeximo I also like how your cat only managed to hit the enter button when he/she jumped on your keyboard.
Price Watcher	Posted - 2007.08.16 22:50:00 - [120] Empire ganking would be easy to fix. Just make it so that freighters and industrials drop no loot. Game over, griefers!

Brugar	Posted - 2007.08.16 23:18:00 - [121] What I want to know is... how the hell does someone get 39,000+ armor??!! http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r176/toomywins/3-1.jpg sheesh!
SiJira	Posted - 2007.08.17 00:06:00 - [122] Originally by: Price Watcher Empire ganking would be easy to fix. Just make it so that freighters and industrials drop no loot. Game over, griefers! good sarcasm ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn
FreelancerAlpha	Posted - 2007.08.17 01:00:00 - [123] Neat, I wish all Eve pvp was designed around this system. We wouldn't have to bother with pesky tactics or planning anymore. We could go into every fight knowing that if we use X ship with Y mods and Z drones, it will cost exactly $$$ and will cost the enemy exactly $$$$$, and we get a refund of $$. We would be the pvp kings. Anyone who doesnt want such a hardcore system could go play WoW, where you actually have to find the counter instead of just hiding behind guards. God, what a bunch of carebears. Seriously guys, wth? And stop with the RL analogies ok? Concord has a purpose. That purpose is to keep subscribers around so that leet peeveepeeers can play their game, which at last count included: 0.0 warfare (roaming, pos), lowsec warefare (roaming, hunting, gatecamping), empire warfare (wardec). Stop whining about the carebears whining. Their mining ships are susceptible to ore theft, their ratting ships are susceptible to loot theft & harassment, and their corps are weak to war decs. Yes, you can gank them, but don't act like you're a pvper because you got 10 kestrels together and took out a retriever who "should have had an escort, its a pvp game omg!". Leave suicide ganks in, but take away the ez-mode for the attacker (who is concord protected right up until the first shot). If a player wants to be a "terrorist" or whatever, let him bear the financial burden. If he gets his name on a killmail that resulted in a concordokken, no insurance payout. This way, players who accidentally fire on a wreck or gang mate still get their insurance. If you manage to accidentally kill a target you shouldnt have, well, then you're really stupid.
Tasuric Orka Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.17 01:21:00 - [124] All they should do is remove insurance payout when popped by concord, you should still be able to suicide frieghters. Ccp, dont ****ing baby these careless jerks.
William Walker Amarr Interplanetary Mechanics	Posted - 2007.08.17 01:28:00 - [125] Wow a Freighter died and there was lots of police. Move along, nothing to see here. The Crime Scene Investigation will take it from here. ________________________________________________
RtoZ	Posted - 2007.08.17 01:34:00 - [126] I have nothing against suicide ganking as a tactic, but the game mechanics around insurance just show ccp hasn't got a clue about the concept of "fairness". You're a merc, a hired killer. You kill someone. Concord blows up your ship, which is the police's way of enforcing a penalty. Yet then the same game that polices you gives you back the vast majority of your cost in a sort of under the table move. Sorry, it just bloody sucks for us carebears to know that is how the mechanics work. Keep the gank, remove the insurance. Hell, even give a fine. HIGH SECURITY should mean HIGH security, not some sort of banana republic where the robbers get reimbursed by the state bank for their busted up getaway cars. It makes no sense.
Tanksmann	Posted - 2007.08.17 02:26:00 - [127] Originally by: ghosttr I think it would be a good idea to remove insurance payouts for getting concordokkened. And also make it so that cargo scanners wont work on the freighter. the people trying to suicide gank the freighter should have to risk more, given the potential rewards. This is a great idea IMO. If you get concordokkened you were doing something wrong 99% of the time. And if freighters are such advanced haulers they should theoretically have some time of system to block their cargos from being scanned.
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive Animal.	Posted - 2007.08.17 03:23:00 - [128] Originally by: Tanksmann Originally by: ghosttr I think it would be a good idea to remove insurance payouts for getting concordokkened. And also make it so that cargo scanners wont work on the freighter. the people trying to suicide gank the freighter should have to risk more, given the potential rewards. This is a great idea IMO. If you get concordokkened you were doing something wrong 99% of the time. And if freighters are such advanced haulers they should theoretically have some time of system to block their cargos from being scanned. ... and, again theoretically, they should really have their own jump drives... and be completely impervious to attack
SiJira	Posted - 2007.08.17 11:47:00 - [129] there is always a way to defend and a way to attack with the huge benefits that freighters offer in terms of sheer volume their weaknesses are obvious and if one only uses 1 person to help them or doesnt bother at all then a group of 30+ people in battleships should be able to get them it is only fair ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn
Noggin TheNog	Posted - 2007.08.17 12:13:00 - [130] Why not simply add a right-click, Trash It option to items in cargo? That way the freighter pilot has the option to deny his attackers of loot...

Archbishop Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.08.17 12:43:00 - [131] This sort of thing has played out in the past several times and each time CCP has taken steps to halt it after public outcry reached a particular volume level. Personally I find this sort of thing a bit ridiculous and just another way people look to exploit an inadequate game mechanic in a way that was never originally intended by CCP. The fact stuff like this crops up from time to time is just proof that people will go out of their way to find ways around the "rules" and exploit the system. Some history..... Mara/Passari empire gate camps with m0o - For awhile in Empire we had this to deal with. End result was missile firing billboards, sentry guns, increased Concord presence and "real piracy" like Setec and Space Invaders being forced into 0.0 because of the actions of a few. Repper/Recharge Gate Camping Smartbombers - I forget which corp this was but several of them ended up banned from the game after they refused a GM order to stop. They had one smartbombing BS being remote repped by multiple other ships and thus being rendered invulnerable to Concord attack. This ship was basically destroying everything at a high security Empire gate and the outcry was quick. If it was "legal" the GM wouldn't have ordered them to stop but it clearly wasn't what was intended. Result was nerfs to this sort of thing and gang consequences to ships that rep others. Noob System 1.0 Gankfest - We had a couple players (us veterans remember them) get into 1.0 new player systems in heavily tanked ships then go to work literally slaughtering new players as they undocked in their noob ships. These players had -9.9 security status thus they couldn't "drop lower" and Concord response was thus invisible or very weak. The GMs had to move in and take action in these cases as these players were literally slaughtering people who had just bought the game. Result was a couple of temp bans and changes to the security system so they couldn't even fly into 1.0 anymore in anything but a pod. Sentry power was also increased so tanking was out. Suicide Mining Killers - These guys used Kestrels to gank mining barges. I remember something was done as a result to this dynamic but I don't remember what. I do remember though that these attacks stopped for the most part after the fix was put in. There are several more but this is just what I can remember off the top of my head. These are no different from these freighter kills and honestly are just another example of people finding ways to exploit a weak game mechanic and work around something that isn't well defined. This is no different from my examples above. All those people claimed "we're pirates we're just getting loot" as well and we saw what happend. In the end this will HURT PvP because CCP will come along eventually and put in measures to stop it and PvP will be even further nerfed and restricted. Going all the way back to Mara/Passari and the eventual expelling of piracy in Empire we've seen several examples of a few players doing stuff like this and thus changing the game for the worse because CCP has had to come in and basically nerf something into the stone age to counter it. This is Empire space. The 30% of the game field that is supposed to be mostly safe. Allowing something like this and a 30 second kill just isn't "right" even if it is possible. - Give freighters some low slots to fit capital armor repairers and armor plates. - Give freighters some mid slots to fit shield boosters and cap rechargers. - Give freighters some high slots to fit defensive weapons. If Eve is all about PvP these ships should be able to defend themselves. Right now even if a Freighter is escorted there really isn't alot that can be done in the 30 seconds one of these ganker operations will use destroy billions of isk worth of hard work. They'll eventually fix it like all the others. Archie PIE WEBSITE & FORUMS
SiJira	Posted - 2007.08.17 13:34:00 - [132] sure lets give them slots - but their speed will get cut in 1/4th their warp in 1/5th and their cpu and powergrid will not allow you to fit all slots with anything better than medium sized items - of course their hull will get cut in 1/2 as well and their signature radius will bloat out even more im sure everyone will be happy ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn
Virida Mindstar Technology United Confederation of Corporations	Posted - 2007.08.17 14:36:00 - [133] Originally by: Anatolius Originally by: Aidyn Avery this ganking is the equivalent of thugs taking down a truck, ship or railroad in society. Those are the freighters in today's life. If someone did or tried to do it, the police would not let this happen, let alone again. Funny, piracy on the world's oceans is presently a massive problem. Google it. As it were, I'd love to see what a coast guard cutter is going to do against a group of nutcases with a few dozen Iowa-class battleships. What, you wanted to bring real life into the argument, hey? If a country as Iceland or norway was to face some dozens Iowa's pirating on their fishingboats, they'd call their allies to help, same would every non superpower too. if say, USA was facing a such fleet, the fleet would be nuked if it was close enough to each other it would be feastible, russia is SHURE to have nuked them: the russians opened up the atomic control briefcase when norway sent up a unanounced northlight research rocket once, even.
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2007.08.17 15:07:00 - [134] Originally by: Gorken Edited by: Gorken on 12/05/2007 18:20:36 Take your twinkle toed communist trash ass out of these forums. Caldari and proud
Billy Sastard Amarr Life. Universe. Everything. Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.17 15:10:00 - [135] STOP NECROING THE DAMN FREIGHTER GANK THREADS!!! Did CCP not fix the problem of CONCORD not jamming drones? Is it not way harder to kill freighters in highsec now? WHY do we need to necro this schlock!?!?! -=^=-
Goonswarmalwayslose	Posted - 2007.08.17 19:12:00 - [136] CCP constantly change game rules. Like wtf if you are going to do something stick with it. Its nuts they cant make up their mind.
Christari Zuborov Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.08.17 22:46:00 - [137] So there wasn't a freighter down, well 3 months ago a freighter died, but this thread lives on? Can we get a mod to lock this one? There's really no point in this thread other than to misinform.
cuteboylookingatyou	Posted - 2007.08.18 02:23:00 - [138] Are freighters better than druids?

Yipsilanti Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2007.08.18 04:00:00 - [139] This is necro'd from several months ago and doesnt bring any relevant new information Click ___ forum rules \| [email protected] \| Our Website



Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.