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Ryas Nia
Minmatar
Stormriders
Fimbulwinter
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Posted - 2007.05.13 12:26:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Taikun
Originally by: Ryas Nia
You can use it even with all the ganking going on... just bring some friends in ships that can escort and assist. All the capital ships in the game are very very vulnerable when they lack any sport ships. Just ask a few of the solo dread or carrier pilots that lose ships in belts to 4-6 battleships...
Ducking skill at V? My point completely missed you.
How did using scouts work for you when Priavteers were in full effect? Get real. Friends to constantly monitor freighter movements in empire to protect a load worth 750m?
As Paris Hilton would say... WHAT-EVE-RRRR...
As it stands... freighters are basically useless in EvE. Need mins in 0.0? Use a carrier to cyno jump it down. Want to run stuff in empire? Better not be worth more than a billion or you are going to get popped in a freighter.
Freighters by DESIGN are for hauling ****loads of **** from A to B. The way the game mechanics are right now... putting more than a 750m worth of stuff in a ship with that capacity is terchnically a BAD thing to do. It would be safer to use a tweeked out battleship to haul compressed minerals and otehr stuff.
Just a matter of time for the Privateer CounterStrike fan bois to figure this new ISK making gankfest out and freighters will be popping like crazy soon. What am I saying... it has already started.
Do we count you as one of their number Ryas Nia?
Taikun
Scouts are only part of the solution, i don't know how it gets missed in this game but LOGISTICS LOGISTICS LOGISTICS, some of these things can rep 1k HP ever few seconds get just a few into gang and just watch.... they take a little time to train yes, and the skill is 30m fine, thats why you join a corp or an alliance that has sufficient members to defend and support your freighter.
Also you can make all the personal attacks you want but i have never been in privateers though i did like what they were doing and think CCP's nerf will hurt empire pvp, i have played CS once found it rather lame and did not like the community around it. Also i have never ganked anything in high sec and don't ever plan on it.
But then i do think it needs to be part of the game, otherwise people think they can just fly around without ever getting into a corp/alliance and be totally safe. Personally i don't think anyone should bealbe to fly anything larger than a BC in an NPC corp, this is an MMO people need to play it like that, if they want single player this is the wrong game.
Recruiting Terrorists |
Methodius
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Posted - 2007.05.13 12:35:00 -
[32]
Quote:
One of them was suicided for NO REASON on his FIRST F-ING DAY. You know what happened? Did he quit eve? No. He laughed
Really?!  On his FIRST day?! Wow!
It takes a whole another kind of man not to quit after such a huge financial loss! My hat's off to your buddy.
Sheesh! One helluva guy! 
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Big Al
The League of Legitimate Nigerian Businessmen
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Posted - 2007.05.13 12:47:00 -
[33]
Dev alt freighter got ganked eh?
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Li Jhakarra
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Posted - 2007.05.13 12:47:00 -
[34]
if you have that many accounts you must be a macro miner.
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Grendelsbane
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Posted - 2007.05.13 14:27:00 -
[35]
I think that the ability of drones to offset, a bit, Concord action should be addressed. I also think that it seems a bit silly to have insurance payouts for ships that get Concorded.
However, I also think hi-sec suicide ganking can be very amusing and is sometimes your only recourse. Hell, I considered doing it yesterday for a personal slight, but decided I had better things to do.
On the other hand... I also think people with below a certain sec rating (i.e., pirates) shouldn't get bounty payouts for killing rats. 
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Xeron Silverblade
Esthar Industries
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Posted - 2007.05.13 14:53:00 -
[36]
/signed
and /signed as well for the no-insurance-payout-if-killed-by-concord
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J'Mkarr Soban
Amarr
Viziam
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Posted - 2007.05.13 15:26:00 -
[37]
Edited by: J''Mkarr Soban on 13/05/2007 15:25:33
*******s. The risk in high-sec is wardeccing, that's what it's there for.
Suicid ganking is just...hell words escape me it's that pitiful. I've never been suicide ganked, and I hope it never happens to me, and yeah, I won't run away crying if it happens. At least, not how that I have enough resources to rebuild anything I'd lose. And that's where the problem is - if it happens to a newb, big effing deal! They've only got what, 1,000 ISK and a watermelon? But when it happens to someone who is trying to get on in the game, and have fun doing what they like to do, it's really frustrating. It's not even about risk versus reward, a freighter full of frozen seeds has realised the risk versus reward thing, which is why they are in high-sec shipping around frozen seeds instead of in 0.0 or low sec shipping parts and ships around. The risk versus reward line is getting so old. Simply put, you want killmails without effort, no? Oh, it's not about that then? Then go to 0.0 where things are challenging. Risk versus reward, right? You're exploiting the fact that you can risk little for high reward in high-sec. What's 100mil in suicide ships when you can loot 2bil from a freighter? Mmm, risky.
Children, the lot of you. Why don't you play Eve.
I'd like to see some degradation in your clones if you use them too quickly after they'd been setup. 1mil SP per day it saves from when you load it. Then we'll see where suicide gets you.
-J
---------------------------------
"He who 'hah hahs' last, 'hah hahs' best." - Nelson
Balanced != Nerfed |
Vana Gank
Gallente
Kebabtossers
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Posted - 2007.05.13 15:29:00 -
[38]
My name should explain why.
My race should explain how.
I rest my case.
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weebls
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Posted - 2007.05.13 15:43:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Ryas Nia
Scouts are only part of the solution, i don't know how it gets missed in this game but LOGISTICS LOGISTICS LOGISTICS, some of these things can rep 1k HP ever few seconds get just a few into gang and just watch.... they take a little time to train yes, and the skill is 30m fine, thats why you join a corp or an alliance that has sufficient members to defend and support your freighter.
Logistics seems like it would help in theory, but in reality it's useless. Each Domi you bring to the fight does 10,000 dmg in the first 15 seconds. With the lag, targetting delays, and the rep cycle time of 8-10 seconds the freighter will likely be dead before any repair can be done at all. It's not a workable solution. |
J'Mkarr Soban
Amarr
Viziam
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Posted - 2007.05.13 15:58:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Ryas Nia
CCP nerfs empire again :( sad... All this will do is continue the trend of using NPC corps for large alliances to safely move goods around empire.
CCP give us a chance to attack their logistics at least.
This is meta gaming, and completely outwith your control. If you are using this as the basis for suicide ganking, then I'm sorely disappointed. You'll always have people with multiple accounts. Using an in game way to get at those accounts is pretty crap. Although I agree that using those accounts in the first place to move stuff around is bad. No way round it, unfortunately.
-J
---------------------------------
"He who 'hah hahs' last, 'hah hahs' best." - Nelson
Balanced != Nerfed |
Le Skunk
Privateers
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.13 15:58:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Le Skunk on 13/05/2007 15:57:21
Originally by: Selena 001
Originally by: Ha'Uler
Suicide ganking has already changed on the testserver. CONCORD now instantly kills drones and deals much, much more damage. Fully tanked Domis survive for only four seconds, tops.
All its doing is making it cost you slightly more to suicide stuff. Not dealing with the actual problem.
PvP in empire was intended to be reserved for wars (not the pointless war-mongering the Privateers were taking advantage of either btw) otherwise, whats the point in allowing wars and creating concord? 
The 'pointless war mongering' never existed. Every war had a point be it resource hoggins/ space denial/ smack talk/ ore thiefing/ loot thiefing/ defence of a smaller corp/ economic 'black ops'.
Any'pointless war mongering' is now continued by myriad smaller corps - who pick on the smallest and most helpless - instead of the Largest and most powerful like we did.
SKUNK
Oh and signed to the OP. You are however - doomed. The anti freighter gankers are following my "9 points to nerfdoom" and are well on the way to success.
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Stakhanov
Shih Yang Tong
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Posted - 2007.05.13 16:02:00 -
[42]
I'm not sure - how exactly does lag prevent remote rep ? Can't the logistics just lock the freighter and activate armor reps *before* the bunch of BS appearing on overview open fire ? Logistic drones and remote reps have different durations also...
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Aphotic Raven
Gallente
E X O D U S
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.05.13 16:24:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Willow Whisp
/signed. CCP finally Fixed the Freighter so it works as intended, and people that have been abusing a bug that caused the freighter to basically give them invulnerability in highsec are whining. Thank you, CCP, for finally fixing the bug.
Re: Loss of insurance to Concord. I fully Agree. I don't see why a pilot that took a t2 piħata through highsec unescorted basically inviting aggression should get any kind of insurance. That kind of piloting is irresponsible.
Oh, you meant the attacker? 
Agreed... Insurance shouldnt cover suicide attacks... its not in the contract... lets see the carebears ***** and moan then.
Originally by: Dr Cupid
Let me tell you all that I'm really enjoying eve-beta, and can't wait for the real game to come out!
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Le Skunk
Privateers
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.13 16:28:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Le Skunk on 13/05/2007 16:26:37
Originally by: Aphotic Raven
Originally by: Willow Whisp
/signed. CCP finally Fixed the Freighter so it works as intended, and people that have been abusing a bug that caused the freighter to basically give them invulnerability in highsec are whining. Thank you, CCP, for finally fixing the bug.
Re: Loss of insurance to Concord. I fully Agree. I don't see why a pilot that took a t2 piħata through highsec unescorted basically inviting aggression should get any kind of insurance. That kind of piloting is irresponsible.
Oh, you meant the attacker?
Agreed... Insurance shouldnt cover suicide attacks... its not in the contract... lets see the carebears ***** and moan then.
I think this would be a BAD idea. People oft quote REAL LIFE insurance companys not paying you if you ramraid your car into a supermarket.
Well this is true. But if you want to do that
1) No insurance for self destructs
2) No insurance for gross negligence in a mission
3) If you live in lowsec - massive premiums
4) If you die in 0.0 - no insurance offered
5) The more ships you lose - the more they charge you.
6) Noobs uninsurable
7) No insurance for "act of CCP" (lag)
SKUNK
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bigfatbird
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.13 16:31:00 -
[45]
/signed
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Phocas Lebournes
Minmatar
New Justice
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.13 16:33:00 -
[46]
/signed
Suiciding must remain in the game!
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umop 3pisdn
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2007.05.13 16:34:00 -
[47]
Edited by: umop 3pisdn on 13/05/2007 16:34:04
Originally by: J'Mkarr Soban
Edited by: J''Mkarr Soban on 13/05/2007 15:25:33
*******s. The risk in high-sec is wardeccing, that's what it's there for.
Suicid ganking is just...hell words escape me it's that pitiful. I've never been suicide ganked, and I hope it never happens to me, and yeah, I won't run away crying if it happens. At least, not how that I have enough resources to rebuild anything I'd lose. And that's where the problem is - if it happens to a newb, big effing deal! They've only got what, 1,000 ISK and a watermelon? But when it happens to someone who is trying to get on in the game, and have fun doing what they like to do, it's really frustrating. It's not even about risk versus reward, a freighter full of frozen seeds has realised the risk versus reward thing, which is why they are in high-sec shipping around frozen seeds instead of in 0.0 or low sec shipping parts and ships around. The risk versus reward line is getting so old. Simply put, you want killmails without effort, no? Oh, it's not about that then? Then go to 0.0 where things are challenging. Risk versus reward, right? You're exploiting the fact that you can risk little for high reward in high-sec. What's 100mil in suicide ships when you can loot 2bil from a freighter? Mmm, risky.
Children, the lot of you. Why don't you play Eve.
I'd like to see some degradation in your clones if you use them too quickly after they'd been setup. 1mil SP per day it saves from when you load it. Then we'll see where suicide gets you.
You sir take it far too seriously. Suicide ganking is Hilarious and fun for the 30 guys doing the shooting.. its certain death so its exciting too... and btw, concord dont shoot pods... neither do carebears getting suicide ganked...
The risk is that A) the freighter escapes B) the good loot doesnt drop C) someone else scoops the loot D) someone sucides the wreck (can be done with 2-3 t1 cruisers and POP bye bye loot)
No one will have to worry about any of this since CCP is apparently giving into the whining carebears and nerfind drones vs. concord.
Carebears and rich pvp'ers alts want high gain from NO risk in empire carting billions around.. heres a news flash... most people play eve for around 6 months... most people never see 2 bil in their wallet.
Risk vs. Reward... make 5 runs across empire or take your trillions in one run of laziness... its not the campers fault that you're offering them money... they are not lazy.. it takes a lot of effort to kill a freighter in empire before concord kills you.
Carebears win again.
Lame.
Edit: also... let people wardec the noob corps to get at the freighter alts... and then the real noobs and those who really dont wanna pvp will suffer and quit in huge numbers... dont allow noob corpers to fly t2 haulers or freighters maybe? they arent noobs after all are they... im sure they'd need at least some kind of corporation to purchase such behemoths right?
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Psyllus Ktenas
Amarr
BlackHole Entertainment
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Posted - 2007.05.13 16:35:00 -
[48]
Dont give in even more to the carebears CCP.
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weebls
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Posted - 2007.05.13 16:48:00 -
[49]
Lag affects pilot response times, their ability to find, select, and target rapidly, launch drones, activate modules and then there is a delay of 8-10 seconds before any armor is repaired. In and of itself it doesn't affect remote repping, but it has a major effect on how soon that remote repping can actually come into play. If a freighter took at least 30-40 seconds to kill, then remote repping would start to become useful. When you can kill a Freighter in under 20 seconds however, it's pretty much taken out of the equation.
Logistics also just don't repair fast enough. A guardian with 6 remote reps does about 1800 hp of repair in 8 seconds, or 3600 hp in 16 seconds. A single Dominix does 10,000 dmg in the first 15 seconds. |
thesulei
Applied Eugenics
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Posted - 2007.05.13 21:50:00 -
[50]
Zombiecorp-incidents are cool ; for those among you who have been around here long enough to remember that.
(although I do kind of understand the changes that sometimes happen in the aftermath)
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Mirirar
Solstice Systems Development Concourse
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Posted - 2007.05.13 21:51:00 -
[51]
Insurance should be changed so it does not pay out if Concord is involved.
It should also up your "rates". :)
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Le Skunk
Privateers
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.13 21:58:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Le Skunk on 13/05/2007 21:56:34
Originally by: Mirirar
Insurance should be changed so it does not pay out if Concord is involved.
It should also up your "rates". :)
I would agree as long as any ships destroyed in 0.0 did not recieve an insurance payout.
After all - following the real life analogy used to justify no insurance to suicide gankers - no insurance company would ever pay out if you deliberatly drove your car in a war torn country and got shot at.
If your gonna nerf empire - you REALLY gotta make 0.0 harsher.
Never happen though.
SKUNK
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Gealbhan
Caldari
The SAS
The Kano Organisation
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Posted - 2007.05.13 22:11:00 -
[53]
I don't see a reason to remove it. It is part of the game.
You start watering it down and you'll kill the game.
Leave it as is.
"Concentrate all your fire on one target, when it is destroyed, move on to the next. That is how you secure victory". - Tactica Imperium. |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.05.14 00:00:00 -
[54]
/signed
and since there are sensible people here please sign this thread
Please do NOT nerf cloaking in anyway including scan probes
____ __ ________
_sig below_
the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
Awox
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.05.14 00:38:00 -
[55]
Don't you get it? CCP are removing non-consented pvp. If you want pvp you go to 0.0 and take part in large fleet battles, anything will continue to be nerfed while the large fleet battles get all the "boosts".
-
BOOST OUTLAWS (-10.0 and proud of it) |
Taikun
Gallente
Serenity Prime
Praesidium Libertatis
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Posted - 2007.05.14 00:40:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Taikun on 14/05/2007 00:42:48
Originally by: Frug
Originally by: Taikun
As it stands... freighters are basically useless in EvE. Need mins in 0.0? Use a carrier to cyno jump it down. Want to run stuff in empire? Better not be worth more than a billion or you are going to get popped in a freighter.
Freighters by DESIGN are for hauling ****loads of **** from A to B. The way the game mechanics are right now... putting more than a 750m worth of stuff in a ship with that capacity is terchnically a BAD thing to do. It would be safer to use a tweeked out battleship to haul compressed minerals and otehr stuff.
"As it stands... freighters are useless in Eve" my ass. I see freighters all over the place and I'm sorry, but I don't believe you. Not even remotely. That is called uber whining and extreme exaggeration.
Just because there are freighters everywhere doesn't mean my assessment isn't valid. I have done the numbers and they are what they are. ( http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=518173 )You are welcome to sharpen your pencil and put on your thinking cap and work it out for yourself. But until you do, you are the one spouting hot air with nothing to back you up. To put it another way, you are uber whining about something you have extreme lack of knowledge about.
Just like Privateers who's war decing policy lead to a change in its operation, high sec freighter ganking will lead to a change in how Concord responds.
Wardec policy was changed because it was being abused to the point where it was not "working as devlopers intended".
Now if a dev would come on and tell me that a freighter was intended to only haul 750m worth of stuff or risk getting poppped to make some pirates cash I'd say fine. However given that there are plenty of other ships that fit that role I beleive freighters were implemented to haul 'massive' amounts of goods rather than just a token piddly amount.
Simply put, freighters usefullness given the new environment of freighter ganking has passed.
Does this mean people will stop flying freighters? Of course not. It just means they are using the wrong tool for the job most of the time.
The actual role of the freighter is now so limited as to make my opinion of them to be 'useless'.
Now, if you want pull your head out of the sand and explain in detail what a freighter is now good for taking into consideration the following.
1. High sec gankers
2. The 'role' of freighters given their CCP description.
3. Other ships capability to do a freighters job more effectivly.
THEN you would have added something constructive to this dialouge beyond "I don't believe you".
Taikun
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Lavinrac Krad
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Posted - 2007.05.14 01:10:00 -
[57]
I agree with this message and regularly fly an Industrial/Barge. Suicide ganking makes Jita, Tash-Murkin Prime, and Hek a hell of a lot more interesting.
Keep on flying my little suicidal pirate-like friends Also, as was told to me by the tutorial and others, who could be macros of some sort I guess, "Don't fly what you can't afford to lose."
BTW- The safer empire becomes, the less point there is to play Eve. Plenty of other MMORPGs have no PvP zones and they were designed around that. Eve is designed around rather free PvP and to switch the design plan 4 years after release, well... That may make sense to John Smedley but it sure and hell don't makes sense to me
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Kylar Renpurs
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Posted - 2007.05.14 01:15:00 -
[58]
/signed :)
Improve Market Competition! |
Chad Nova
Celestial Fire
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Posted - 2007.05.14 22:38:00 -
[59]
/signed
The harsh enviroment of EVE is one of the reasons I decided to start plaing this game.
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slothe
Caldari
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.05.14 22:42:00 -
[60]
in r/l you can still go into a police station and shotgun an officer. sure you will regret it. but you can do it.
shouldnt eve be the same?
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