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We the undersigned find suicide ganking amusing

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Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2007.05.13 07:41:00 - [1] Edited by: Frug on 13/05/2007 07:39:07 I felt the need to start this as a simple counter to that 9 page thread that might make it look like 9 pages of people agreeing with stopping suicide ganking in general (it's not but many in there say that). If I post there, I'll be undersigned, and I'm certainly not. First of all, to people who keep asking CCP to make high-sec 100% safe: HAHAHA. Right. What game have you been playing? More reasonably, people seem to generally agree on removing insurance payouts when you get concordokkened. Sounds fine to me. No arguments here. The point is being able to suicide gank people is FUN and often hilarious and this whole "It will scare noobs out of eve" mentality is all wrong. The only people it'll scare is people who aren't ready for Eve Online. I introduced 4 people to eve at about the same time. One of them was suicided for NO REASON on his FIRST F-ING DAY. You know what happened? Did he quit eve? No. He laughed, we laughed (one of his buds was there) and now it makes a great story to tell. None of us saw it coming, none of us has any idea why it happened, but all of us agree it *****s us up. And that's the point. It's gotta happen, and you've gotta learn to laugh about it, because it really is pretty f-ing funny. And if anyone ever takes the possibility for that fun away, I'll quit eve and take all my 231498751 accounts with me and sue you all for mental anguish. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Ryas Nia Minmatar Stormriders Fimbulwinter	Posted - 2007.05.13 07:45:00 - [2] risk and loss are what make the game worth playing... yes they suck some times. Remove the risk and you remove the game. Recruiting Terrorists
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2007.05.13 07:49:00 - [3] Hey ryas. I'm talkin about Varraka too. Happened on his first day. Poor bastard. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.05.13 07:50:00 - [4] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 13/05/2007 07:48:24 Suicide ganking must remain in the game. If ccp changes the insurance to make it cost more, I guess I can live with that, but empire should never be free from sporadic attacks by other players. Like I said in another thread... making empire totally safe will remove unprepared pvp from the game because people in low sec and 0.0 are always prepared for it. So do we want to keep surprise attacks in the game? I definently think so. I hope its still part of the devs vision for the game. Eve should continue to keep people on their toes like it always has, not adapt to the rest of the grinding games out there. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune
Ryas Nia Minmatar Stormriders Fimbulwinter	Posted - 2007.05.13 07:57:00 - [5] hehe always fun to get ganked in high sec.. Jim you got it man, its sad that the general population of eve went from trying adapting to changes, to whining till CCP fix it for them. So far 99% of all the grifing and exploit threads i see these days are from people who clearly are either to lazy or unwilling to change their play style. For anyone who feels like they are not safe in empire, be it freighter or miner i have to concepts for you, Gang support and Logistics. A freighter with 2-5 logistics ships will tank a swarm of BS's so long that concord will pop them unless they bring 30 to the fight... all of a sudden the cost ratio of the gank goes up... The same is true of mining, bring along a logistics ship and a few BC's. Fact of the mater is most of these people refuse to realize that the game is played in groups (gangs and corps) and that corp specialization while good means your an easy target. Fly nothing but barges and you cant defend your self. If you need protection frigging pay for it.... sorry but its not cheap so maybe you should move somewhere where the reward justifies the risk unlike high sec empire where the reward is crap and there is just as much risk as low sec. Recruiting Terrorists
EaglesFire Gallente	Posted - 2007.05.13 08:06:00 - [6] Heck I'm all for ganking in High Sec. If someone wants to give me a low-risk / high reward in high sec, I'll take it to the bank. Heck, a freighter with billions of ISK in it, with no escort is the same as an armored car in RL running around with no guards and the back door open!!! "Knowledge is power, and the uninformed SHALL be punished!"
Callthetruth Caldari Logical Logtistics	Posted - 2007.05.13 08:34:00 - [7] a simple nerf is removing insurance payout on suicide ganks in empire stil keeps the risk-reward open
Willow Whisp	Posted - 2007.05.13 08:46:00 - [8] /signed. CCP finally Fixed the Freighter so it works as intended, and people that have been abusing a bug that caused the freighter to basically give them invulnerability in highsec are whining. Thank you, CCP, for finally fixing the bug. Re: Loss of insurance to Concord. I fully Agree. I don't see why a pilot that took a t2 pi±ata through highsec unescorted basically inviting aggression should get any kind of insurance. That kind of piloting is irresponsible. Oh, you meant the attacker? I'm the alt of the main that the forums picked, and i can't be arsed to go through the "settings" page to change it back, k?
Swirled Amarr The JORG Corporation FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.13 09:43:00 - [9] /Signed. High security, Not total security. If a change is needed, id have to agree with the insurance payout removal. Maybe even remove payment on any ship which CONCORD has destroyed. --- Just My Opinion Of Course... ---
Selya Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2007.05.13 10:02:00 - [10] /signed !
ToxicFire Phoenix Knights Dark Nebula Galactic Empire	Posted - 2007.05.13 10:08:00 - [11] /signed only if people in high sec attacking others without wardec invalidate their insurance, someone further up used the analogy of freighters been armor cars with no guards, well to turn that kinda real world thinking back at ya, what insurance company would pay out if you deliberately rammed the armored car with your car to rob it. Sig removed as it lacks EVE-related content. Mail [email protected] if you have questions. -Hango
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.05.13 10:14:00 - [12] Originally by: ToxicFire /signed only if people in high sec attacking others without wardec invalidate their insurance, someone further up used the analogy of freighters been armor cars with no guards, well to turn that kinda real world thinking back at ya, what insurance company would pay out if you deliberately rammed the armored car with your car to rob it. And what police would magically appear in seconds and wipe their car off the face of the planet? The best would be if players could do hit and run attacks and get away from concord, but that wont happen I guess. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune
Ha'Uler	Posted - 2007.05.13 10:20:00 - [13] Suicide ganking has already changed on the testserver. CONCORD now instantly kills drones and deals much, much more damage. Fully tanked Domis survive for only four seconds, tops.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.05.13 10:20:00 - [14] Originally by: Ha'Uler Suicide ganking has already changed on the testserver. CONCORD now instantly kills drones and deals much, much more damage. Fully tanked Domis survive for only four seconds, tops. A step in the wrong direction imo. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.05.13 10:30:00 - [15] Originally by: Callthetruth a simple nerf is removing insurance payout on suicide ganks in empire stil keeps the risk-reward open win This is my sig, there are many others just like it. With me, my sig is worthless. Without (or with even) my sig, I am worthless...
Selena 001	Posted - 2007.05.13 10:32:00 - [16] Originally by: Ha'Uler Suicide ganking has already changed on the testserver. CONCORD now instantly kills drones and deals much, much more damage. Fully tanked Domis survive for only four seconds, tops. All its doing is making it cost you slightly more to suicide stuff. Not dealing with the actual problem. PvP in empire was intended to be reserved for wars (not the pointless war-mongering the Privateers were taking advantage of either btw) otherwise, whats the point in allowing wars and creating concord? ___________ NATIONAL SARCASM DAY!!
Von Druid Black Omega Security	Posted - 2007.05.13 10:48:00 - [17] Edited by: Von Druid on 13/05/2007 10:46:05 Originally by: Selena 001 All its doing is making it cost you slightly more to suicide stuff. Not dealing with the actual problem. No really, it's impossible now. CONCORD jams and Nos's everyone to hell and they only get one or two volleys off. Drones used to be the major damage dealer, but now they're being targeted by CONCORD as well. Unless you can assemble a 300 man blob to instapop a freighter, you're not going to kill one in highsec.
Ryas Nia Minmatar Stormriders Fimbulwinter	Posted - 2007.05.13 11:09:00 - [18] CCP nerfs empire again :( sad... All this will do is continue the trend of using NPC corps for large alliances to safely move goods around empire. CCP give us a chance to attack their logistics at least. Recruiting Terrorists
000Hunter000 Gallente Magners Marauders	Posted - 2007.05.13 11:16:00 - [19] keep concord as they are (uber concord in hi sec is no fun), remove insurance on beeing concordized (it's silly u should get a payout from ur insurance company for using your car on a robbery and it gets trashed by the cops on the concurrent persuit, i'm sure there is something in their policy which means they won't have to pay u for abusing your car) I'm not a big ship to ship pvp fan but hi sec beeing hi sec not fully sec is the reason i enjoy eve so much. CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!!
Callthetruth Caldari Logical Logtistics	Posted - 2007.05.13 11:18:00 - [20] how to make substantial ISK by getting other peeps to suicide gank u in empire Take a covert ops ship, add a recon probe launcher some spook and snoops find a high sec mission running system ( or any system with more than 10 in local) and level 3 and 4 agents Scan out mission sites begin salvage ( take a corp mate to get teh wrecks faster) Before u all go off going thro empire there are very very very few people doing this - it takes persistance as the pay off both in ships lost , equipment lost when aggressed ( yeah ive got balls so generally take a lot of risks) and generally the fact that a lot of missioners now have a buddy or alt to salvage their wrecks as they go ( carebears learning) But the key is to find multiple targets only take a few bits of wreckage or loot ( dont get aggroed just ninja salvage) and eventually those juicy mission runners ( or the ISK farmers from ***** who have now moved into running missions to fund thei9r illegal activities) will occasionally think they can kill u and blow themselves up with a bit of help from concord ( hint use a warp stab) smarll armour rep and or a couple of 50mm extenders ( be prepared to loose the odd cov ops ship tho) having the buddy there can scoop up the centus loot and the t2 and factional gear that the mission runners leave b ehind from their encounters with concord. Now u can go days with nothing happening, collect lots of t1 drones and ISK returns near nothing but the good stuff pays off. Have some fun doing it, feeling nice help other ppl out take in a BS and help them shoot their rats as well Its all open and multiplayer CCP have been good not to further protect noobs with secure dungeons but their nerf of scan probes has made the time to scan peeps out a bit tough on the old mind but the risk v reward balance is there. Ie not finding mission runners to quickly (its hard to get a sig result sometimes) but not too long that u never get any reward
Cipher7 Keepers of the Holy Bagel SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.13 11:19:00 - [21] Originally by: Ha'Uler Suicide ganking has already changed on the testserver. CONCORD now instantly kills drones and deals much, much more damage. Fully tanked Domis survive for only four seconds, tops. Carebearism run amok. Nobody should be able to haul billions of isk worth of stuff without risk.
Whacky Backy Under The Edge	Posted - 2007.05.13 11:40:00 - [22] Risk / Reward is the phrase most often used in Eve as a justification for most aspects of the game. High Risk in 0.0 can give high rewards but it may cost you a ship or two along the way. Same applies to low sec, complex work and missions. Suicide ganking using a domi or other BS in empire could give a nice loot at the expense of a sec hit and a few million (after insurance) for the loss of the ship. No doubt the use of scanner alts to select the target and some mates in a hauler/salvager to get the loot. My main lost a small ship to someone called Ruxandra. My loss was maybe 200mil, most it destroyed so maybe 20-40 mil for Ruxandra and friends. More than enough to cover losses. Sure I had kill rights but my skills not a match and my agents found the character fixing sec status in bob space, now theres a suprise. But a lesson learned for me. I now use bigger stronger ships to move stuff around. IMHO its abuse of the system. Concord should not pay out when you deliberatly lose your your ship. You want to suicide your ship then fine but the risk should be total loss and no insurance payout for your acts. I am sure your mates can get your "can" and the loot for you. I would also like to see kill rights than can be assigned to others. Sure I could not take Ruxandra down but I know many that could , maybe kill righs could be sold, now that would be fun. So sure lets have risk and reward.
Taikun Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2007.05.13 11:42:00 - [23] Originally by: Cipher7 Nobody should be able to haul billions of isk worth of stuff without risk. The way it is now, nobody can run with more than 750 million in a freighter without risk. Do the math. A freighter with as little as 750M million in stuff is the "breakeven point" for an economically viable target for a 15 Domi gank squad. Heck.. take away insurance payments for concorded kills and that number will rise to as little as 2.8 billion for cost/benefit. Now it seems crazy to me to spend a billion on a freighter but not be able to use it to carry at least a few times it worth safely in the safest space of this game. I am not against killing freighters in high sec but it is clear to me the decision point for engaging is VERY skewed towards the pirate/privateer. Taikun
Ryas Nia Minmatar Stormriders Fimbulwinter	Posted - 2007.05.13 11:56:00 - [24] Originally by: Taikun Originally by: Cipher7 Nobody should be able to haul billions of isk worth of stuff without risk. The way it is now, nobody can run with more than 750 million in a freighter without risk. Do the math. A freighter with as little as 750M million in stuff is the "breakeven point" for an economically viable target for a 15 Domi gank squad. Heck.. take away insurance payments for concorded kills and that number will rise to as little as 2.8 billion for cost/benefit. Now it seems crazy to me to spend a billion on a freighter but not be able to use it to carry at least a few times it worth safely in the safest space of this game. I am not against killing freighters in high sec but it is clear to me the decision point for engaging is VERY skewed towards the pirate/privateer. Taikun You can use it even with all the ganking going on... just bring some friends in ships that can escort and assist. All the capital ships in the game are very very vulnerable when they lack any sport ships. Just ask a few of the solo dread or carrier pilots that lose ships in belts to 4-6 battleships... Recruiting Terrorists
Laboratus Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen	Posted - 2007.05.13 12:05:00 - [25] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Ha'Uler Suicide ganking has already changed on the testserver. CONCORD now instantly kills drones and deals much, much more damage. Fully tanked Domis survive for only four seconds, tops. A step in the wrong direction imo. Very true... ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Taikun Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2007.05.13 12:12:00 - [26] Originally by: Ryas Nia You can use it even with all the ganking going on... just bring some friends in ships that can escort and assist. All the capital ships in the game are very very vulnerable when they lack any sport ships. Just ask a few of the solo dread or carrier pilots that lose ships in belts to 4-6 battleships... Ducking skill at V? My point completely missed you. How did using scouts work for you when Priavteers were in full effect? Get real. Friends to constantly monitor freighter movements in empire to protect a load worth 750m? As Paris Hilton would say... WHAT-EVE-RRRR... As it stands... freighters are basically useless in EvE. Need mins in 0.0? Use a carrier to cyno jump it down. Want to run stuff in empire? Better not be worth more than a billion or you are going to get popped in a freighter. Freighters by DESIGN are for hauling **loads of ** from A to B. The way the game mechanics are right now... putting more than a 750m worth of stuff in a ship with that capacity is terchnically a BAD thing to do. It would be safer to use a tweeked out battleship to haul compressed minerals and otehr stuff. Just a matter of time for the Privateer CounterStrike fan bois to figure this new ISK making gankfest out and freighters will be popping like crazy soon. What am I saying... it has already started. Do we count you as one of their number Ryas Nia? Taikun
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.05.13 12:14:00 - [27] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 13/05/2007 12:16:57 Originally by: Taikun Just a matter of time for the Privateer CounterStrike fan bois to figure this new ISK making gankfest out and freighters will be popping like crazy soon. What am I saying... it has already started. At least its better than The Sims fan bois. Personally I think that people who go on and on about how unfair the fighting is dont really want to play a pvp game in the first place. They want to duel people, preferably with some dancing afterwards to make it all right. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune
Stakhanov Shih Yang Tong	Posted - 2007.05.13 12:18:00 - [28] I don't like the idea of voiding insurance , people will no longer afford to suicide macros / farmer (and the recently ganked fenrir was one) and concord accidents will be that much costlier. If it is ever implemented , I'm making a covops alt to grief smartbomb mission ravens While drone jamming is a logical step , it's a poor move to increase damage and add cap drain. Smartbombs can't be reliably used in large gangs , so they won't affect freighter ganking.
Ling Xiao Prism Project Technologies	Posted - 2007.05.13 12:22:00 - [29] I find suicide ganking to be perfectly valid, and a welcome part of Eve game mechanics. Non consensual pvp is the backbone of the game. However I think full insurance payouts for CONCORD deaths make the cost vs reward a little too lucrative for the attacker. __________ If you think the game is rigged, why are you still playing?
Cipher7 Keepers of the Holy Bagel SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.13 12:26:00 - [30] Originally by: Taikun Do the math. A freighter with as little as 750M million in stuff is the "breakeven point" for an economically viable target for a 15 Domi gank squad. Lemme put it to you this way. How many thousands of freighters fly around Empire? If we count that 1 freighter gets ganked daily, what is the individual risk for each pilot? So you're saying that a %.01 chance of getting ganked in your freighter is unacceptable? Where exactly is your risk then? Every profession should have some kind of loss, it should not be %100 profit. Mining should not be %100 profit Trade should not be %100 profit Piracy should not be %100 profit This is why I support freighter ganking, not because I'm a nasty ***** that wants to see people hurting. I want people to accept risk as part of Eve. People who object to Freighter ganking are saying that in highsec you should be %100 safe, because the % that actually do get ganked is very very small. People who say insurance payouts should be nerfed are like saying that even a %.001 chance of getting ganked is too much. Listen, if a freighter doesn't pay itself off in a few runs, you prolly shouldn't be flying one. I hope you're not using a 750 mil ship to make 5 mil an hour.

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