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Increasing demand results in increased price

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Thomas Lot Astrocomical Warped Intentions 140	Posted - 2017.05.19 15:51:51 - [1] - Quote This is basic economic theory. By adding the small skill injector option, CCP is increasing demand for the skill extractors which are only available through PLEX purchases in the New Eden Store. The increased demand for PLEX will result in an additional increase in PLEX prices which are already being inflated to the point of insanity since the PLEX split. Prediction: Before the winter, it will cost 2 Billion ISK for one month of Game Time.
Mr Epeen It's All About Me 11105	Posted - 2017.05.19 15:59:43 - [2] - Quote When the game gets to the point where regular players are pushed out of the loop, you have a bit of a situation. What I mean is like up till recently in the Character Bazaar where it came down to character traders selling to other character traders. Or PLEX speculators selling back and forth with other PLEX speculators. Or other less obvious examples that I won't go in to. The small injector mechanic is just going to open up the speculation game to low end speculators. Not help new players get a foothold in the game. At least in my opinion. Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
JC Mieyli Ministry of War Amarr Empire 19	Posted - 2017.05.19 16:00:27 - [3] - Quote dont you know this is a psychopath game we hoard all the plex just to watch the poor isk farmers suffer and were never gonna sell it back hahaha
Nana Skalski Taisaanat Kotei 33666	Posted - 2017.05.19 16:09:14 - [4] - Quote Today we discuss investment in PLEX Recomendation: BUY! ß¦çß¦áß¦ç-Ç-Å ß¦ÿß¦Ç-Çß¦¢ ß¦Å-ô ß¦Ç +óß¦Çß¦ìß¦ç -£ß¦ç-ƒß¦ÿs ß¦¢ß¦Å ß¦¢ß¦ç-ƒ-ƒ ß¦Ç sß¦¢ß¦Å-Ç-Å =ƒôò ß¦í-£ß¦ç-Çß¦ç +¬s ß¦Ç+¦+ó-Ç-Å ß¦äß¦Å+¦ß¦äß¦Å-Çß¦à +óß¦£-Å ß¦í-£ß¦ç+¦ -Åß¦Åß¦£ +¦ß¦çß¦çß¦à -£+¬ß¦ì ß¦Åsß¦ÿ-Çß¦ç-Å =ƒÜÇ GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
JC Mieyli Ministry of War Amarr Empire 20	Posted - 2017.05.19 16:18:00 - [5] - Quote sorry bad joke
Linus Gorp Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker 1402	Posted - 2017.05.19 16:20:03 - [6] - Quote Nana Skalski wrote: Today we discuss investment in PLEX Recomendation: BUY! I have almost 1.6 million. Don't think I need more. When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
Do Little Virgin Plc Evictus. 1201	Posted - 2017.05.19 16:27:46 - [7] - Quote Increasing demand results in increased price unless you also have increased supply! At some point later this year, we can reasonably anticipate some major wars as alliances position themselves for the conversion of outposts to faction citadels. PLEX reserves will be sold on the market to finance these wars. People are also likely to use PLEX reserves to finance refineries and it's important to recognize that every moon hosting a mining operation will need a refinery. My understanding from Fanfest is there won't be a gradual transition where both refineries and POS co-exist, so they will be needed fast! Long term I have no doubt PLEX will continue to appreciate. An aging player base pretty much guarantees that. More people who want to buy PLEX in game to pay their subscription than want to sell PLEX in game to finance projects.
Bjorn Tyrson EVE University Ivy League 623	Posted - 2017.05.19 16:47:43 - [8] - Quote We have also gone quite some time without a meaningful plex sale, last one I remember was the Angel extravaganza one, which was a very minor discount and the skins, so most people realistically where getting the skins out of it. the last major sale was black friday, about 6 months ago now. I remember at one point CCP said that they believe 1-1.2b to be the "sweet spot" for plex prices, and in the past they have done major plex sales any time the prices get considerably above that benchmark. I would not be at all surprised if we see a major plex sale right around the time they hit 1.5b Even without the sale, the higher plex prices get, the more valuable your 20 dollars becomes, which makes buying plex for sale that much more appealing, which will eventually increase the supply. yes, it is basic supply and demand, the prices will continue to climb until either the supply increases through a sale, or more people wanting to cash in on the 2b+ prices. or until the demand dries up due to people not being able to afford them anymore. as someone who trades in plex quite heavily, I have seen very minimal reduction in trade volume which means we haven't actually hit that point yet.
Sonya Corvinus Grant Village 1196	Posted - 2017.05.20 00:43:08 - [9] - Quote Thomas Lot wrote: This is basic economic theory. By adding the small skill injector option, CCP is increasing demand for the skill extractors which are only available through PLEX purchases in the New Eden Store. The increased demand for PLEX will result in an additional increase in PLEX prices which are already being inflated to the point of insanity since the PLEX split. Prediction: Before the winter, it will cost 2 Billion ISK for one month of Game Time. And? $10.95/mo is so much cheaper than plex is now from a time perspective ("grinding for money" IRL compared to griding for ISK) I don't see why anyone would ever actually buy plex in game....
Eternus8lux8lucis Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM 1562	Posted - 2017.05.20 01:34:02 - [10] - Quote Sonya Corvinus wrote: Thomas Lot wrote: This is basic economic theory. By adding the small skill injector option, CCP is increasing demand for the skill extractors which are only available through PLEX purchases in the New Eden Store. The increased demand for PLEX will result in an additional increase in PLEX prices which are already being inflated to the point of insanity since the PLEX split. Prediction: Before the winter, it will cost 2 Billion ISK for one month of Game Time. And? $10.95/mo is so much cheaper than plex is now from a time perspective ("grinding for money" IRL compared to griding for ISK) I don't see why anyone would ever actually buy plex in game.... This is exactly why with my core account group I have always gone back and forth from time to time based on the conversion rates of 3 different currencies. Sometimes with RL money and sometimes PLEX is easier to acquire. If it gets high enough Ill return to real money again. But yes smaller increments always means more people getting involved in investing in the "gold" and "platinum group metals" of this wonderful game. Have you heard anything I've said? You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right? That's right. Had to end sometime.

Don Pera Saissore 137	Posted - 2017.05.20 05:24:52 - [11] - Quote Sonya Corvinus wrote: I don't see why anyone would ever actually buy plex in game.... I wish i was stupid and privileged like you
Marika Sunji Dark-Rising Wrecking Machine. 19	Posted - 2017.05.20 11:06:55 - [12] - Quote Don Pera Saissore wrote: Sonya Corvinus wrote: I don't see why anyone would ever actually buy plex in game.... I wish i was stupid and privileged like you First off, way to escalate, wow. Second, where I live, a ****** minimum-wage job pays for subscription in under half the time it would take to grind a plex in-game, and that is with currency conversion.
Blade Darth Room for Improvement Limited Expectations 148	Posted - 2017.05.20 12:16:35 - [13] - Quote In a addition of the split, market reset (buy/sell orders got cancelled?), there is a "little" issue of 0.0 printing trillions with nothing to absorb that isk. No economy can handle a 2-punch, not to mention a 3-punch. I try to plex accounts but over the last 3 years it has become 10x more difficult to do so (my fault, should have skill injected for carrier or rorq when they were OP as fuk, now it's too late). Also it's not increased demand, more likely drop in supply. Omen Navy Issue Tutorial
Nana Skalski Taisaanat Kotei 33696	Posted - 2017.05.20 12:20:04 - [14] - Quote I dont see drop in supply. Traded amount is big, even somewhat growing, amount of trade orders is big. No wonder, you can get sizeable amount of ISK for it and items are cheap, even deadspace loot. Why grind ISK when you can sell bunch of PLEX? ß¦çß¦áß¦ç-Ç-Å ß¦ÿß¦Ç-Çß¦¢ ß¦Å-ô ß¦Ç +óß¦Çß¦ìß¦ç -£ß¦ç-ƒß¦ÿs ß¦¢ß¦Å ß¦¢ß¦ç-ƒ-ƒ ß¦Ç sß¦¢ß¦Å-Ç-Å =ƒôò ß¦í-£ß¦ç-Çß¦ç +¬s ß¦Ç+¦+ó-Ç-Å ß¦äß¦Å+¦ß¦äß¦Å-Çß¦à +óß¦£-Å ß¦í-£ß¦ç+¦ -Åß¦Åß¦£ +¦ß¦çß¦çß¦à -£+¬ß¦ì ß¦Åsß¦ÿ-Çß¦ç-Å =ƒÜÇ GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
Mr Mieyli Hedion University Amarr Empire 619	Posted - 2017.05.20 13:56:01 - [15] - Quote Sonya Corvinus wrote: Thomas Lot wrote: Prediction: Before the winter, it will cost 2 Billion ISK for one month of Game Time. And? $10.95/mo is so much cheaper than plex is now from a time perspective ("grinding for money" IRL compared to griding for ISK) I don't see why anyone would ever actually buy plex in game.... This right here is a big problem for the health of the game, people would rather spend time earning money out of game than in game, working a minimum wage job is better than playing this game according to prices. Who knows how the game will survive when literally all that is left is people logging in to pings when a giant fight starts over a misclick on jump instead of bridge. A case for more AoE in EvE
Marika Sunji Dark-Rising Wrecking Machine. 20	Posted - 2017.05.20 15:46:36 - [16] - Quote Mr Mieyli wrote: Sonya Corvinus wrote: Thomas Lot wrote: Prediction: Before the winter, it will cost 2 Billion ISK for one month of Game Time. And? $10.95/mo is so much cheaper than plex is now from a time perspective ("grinding for money" IRL compared to griding for ISK) I don't see why anyone would ever actually buy plex in game.... This right here is a big problem for the health of the game, people would rather spend time earning money out of game than in game, working a minimum wage job is better than playing this game according to prices. Who knows how the game will survive when literally all that is left is people logging in to pings when a giant fight starts over a misclick on jump instead of bridge. Um... You're wrong, in my opinion. Here's why - ISK doesn't just appear in your character's wallet. No, not even if you spend IRL money on PLEX. That means the ISK had to be obtained in-game first. Guess who did it? Players. That a small number of players prefer to funnel IRL monies to CCP for in-game items they later exchange for ISK means nothing when the ISK had to be farmed first. Besides, it won't ever become a major phenomenon, since if the majority of playerbase started to sell PLEX for ISK, the prices would crash and it would no longer be at all profitable, and the cycle would continue.
Bjorn Tyrson EVE University Ivy League 629	Posted - 2017.05.20 17:33:01 - [17] - Quote Mr Mieyli wrote: Sonya Corvinus wrote: Thomas Lot wrote: Prediction: Before the winter, it will cost 2 Billion ISK for one month of Game Time. And? $10.95/mo is so much cheaper than plex is now from a time perspective ("grinding for money" IRL compared to griding for ISK) I don't see why anyone would ever actually buy plex in game.... This right here is a big problem for the health of the game, people would rather spend time earning money out of game than in game, working a minimum wage job is better than playing this game according to prices. Who knows how the game will survive when literally all that is left is people logging in to pings when a giant fight starts over a misclick on jump instead of bridge. If that was true, then the plex market would be over saturated and prices would crash. Can't have it both ways
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 15869	Posted - 2017.05.20 17:54:54 - [18] - Quote Bjorn Tyrson wrote: Mr Mieyli wrote: Sonya Corvinus wrote: Thomas Lot wrote: Prediction: Before the winter, it will cost 2 Billion ISK for one month of Game Time. And? $10.95/mo is so much cheaper than plex is now from a time perspective ("grinding for money" IRL compared to griding for ISK) I don't see why anyone would ever actually buy plex in game.... This right here is a big problem for the health of the game, people would rather spend time earning money out of game than in game, working a minimum wage job is better than playing this game according to prices. Who knows how the game will survive when literally all that is left is people logging in to pings when a giant fight starts over a misclick on jump instead of bridge. If that was true, then the plex market would be over saturated and prices would crash. Can't have it both ways That's right. The game is fine, you can look on dotlan maps and see people NPCing it up all over New Eden. I'm slaughtering Guristas as I type this. The "pingers" (PVP players who hate pve 'grinding' and only log on for fleets/roams and use PLEX for this isk needs) are important, but it's by no means everyone of even a majority. Even in null sec "pvp" alliances. People have been saying things like that for a long time (both the "no one will plex at a certain price" thing and "I don't know why people use plex" thing), but that just means that aren't paying attention to what people are actually doing.
Sonya Corvinus Grant Village 1196	Posted - 2017.05.20 19:26:22 - [19] - Quote Don Pera Saissore wrote: Sonya Corvinus wrote: I don't see why anyone would ever actually buy plex in game.... I wish i was stupid and privileged like you Wow, the basics of the time value of money go over some people's head. You can earn $10.95 in an hour of work IRL. Can you earn enough to buy month's plex in game in an hour of play time? A simple yes or no answer will do. If you think earning $10.95 an hour makes a person privileged, you need to spend less time playing video games and more time studying to prove you're worth a better job. Jesus, kid....
Mr Epeen It's All About Me 11137	Posted - 2017.05.20 19:40:59 - [20] - Quote Sonya Corvinus wrote: Can you earn enough to buy month's plex in game in an hour of play time? A simple yes or no answer will do. I'll take this one. Yes. Yes you can. I'll give you one example. I just finished building a Nomad today. Real time: Over a month. Time logged into the game (play time): Under an hour. You can buy plenty of PLEX with 7+ billion Iskies. Obviously less when you take into account build costs, but you see what I'm saying. Still well over a months worth of PLEX per hour played. Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!

Tipa Riot Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 3728	Posted - 2017.05.20 19:56:33 - [21] - Quote Mr Epeen wrote: Sonya Corvinus wrote: Can you earn enough to buy month's plex in game in an hour of play time? A simple yes or no answer will do. I'll take this one. Yes. Yes you can. I'll give you one example. I just finished building a Nomad today. Real time: Over a month. Time logged into the game (play time): Under an hour. You can buy plenty of PLEX with 8+ billion Iskies. Obviously less when you take into account build costs, but you see what I'm saying. Still well over a months worth of PLEX per hour played. Mr Epeen ... you talk about revenue, but profit is needed to have spare ISK for PLEX consumption, and margins for jump freighters are not that great last time I checked (if you are not falling for the "minerals I mine are free" trap). But of course, yes, you can make 1.4B ISK with one hour net playtime per month, after you have invested into the right setup. Probably rather not or only with some luck, within one hour at a time. I'm my own NPC alt.
Sonya Corvinus Grant Village 1196	Posted - 2017.05.20 19:57:33 - [22] - Quote Mr Epeen wrote: I'll take this one. Yes. Yes you can. I'll give you one example. I just finished building a Nomad today. Real time: Over a month. Time logged into the game (play time): Under an hour. You can buy plenty of PLEX with 8+ billion Iskies. Obviously less when you take into account build costs, but you see what I'm saying. Still well over a months worth of PLEX per hour played. Mr Epeen That's great, is it realistic for most people though? You can earn enough for 3-4 months playtime in a hour working IRL though, very easily. That's my only point. Grinding for ISK doesn't make sense. If you have fun doing it, go for it, but don't turn any video game into a job.
Mr Epeen It's All About Me 11137	Posted - 2017.05.20 20:02:13 - [23] - Quote Sonya Corvinus wrote: That's great, is it realistic for most people though? Probably not. But you asked, "Can you earn enough to buy month's plex in game in an hour of play time? A simple yes or no answer will do." So that's what I answered. You did not add qualifiers. You asked a straight up question and I gave you a straight up answer. Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
Sonya Corvinus Grant Village 1196	Posted - 2017.05.20 20:43:29 - [24] - Quote Mr Epeen wrote: Sonya Corvinus wrote: That's great, is it realistic for most people though? Probably not. But you asked, "Can you earn enough to buy month's plex in game in an hour of play time? A simple yes or no answer will do." So that's what I answered. You did not add qualifiers. You asked a straight up question and I gave you a straight up answer. Mr Epeen I assume common sense goes into interpreting what someone says. Apparently I shouldn't. My apologies.
Ben Johannson Cloak and Daggers Fidelas Constans 4	Posted - 2017.05.22 09:40:43 - [25] - Quote In a competitive market at maximum output, increasing demand would tend to increase prices. However, that isn't what we have in Eve. We have an administratively determined price for PLEX set by CCP, not a market determined price. The player equivalent of speculators also manipulate prices via hoarding, which impairs market signaling.
Don Pera Saissore 143	Posted - 2017.05.22 10:24:07 - [26] - Quote Sonya Corvinus wrote: Don Pera Saissore wrote: Sonya Corvinus wrote: I don't see why anyone would ever actually buy plex in game.... I wish i was stupid and privileged like you Wow, the basics of the time value of money go over some people's head. You can earn $10.95 in an hour of work IRL. Can you earn enough to buy month's plex in game in an hour of play time? A simple yes or no answer will do. If you think earning $10.95 an hour makes a person privileged, you need to spend less time playing video games and more time studying to prove you're worth a better job. Jesus, kid.... In my country i have to work about 6 hours to make 10 dollars. You are privileged but too stupid to realise it, you also have a misconception that in order to make isk one needs to grind. To answer your question, yes i can earn for a plex in one hour, my record was 2.3bil in about 2 hours. Its not something that happenes every day, i was lucky that time.
Tanuki Kittybeta Ripperoni in Pepperoni Trigger Warnings 165	Posted - 2017.05.22 10:46:09 - [27] - Quote hi guys i dont know much about market stuff but this thread tells me to buy it so im gonna buy some now
Lulu Lunette Savage Moon Society 1614	Posted - 2017.05.22 12:02:21 - [28] - Quote PLEX costs have risen so much that it's outpaced how fast I can make money through PI and with having a RL wardec ATM I guess it's working as intended that I resubscribed last night =ƒÿü Oh and now investing in PLEX is so much easier in smaller chunks like this so now I'm treating it like my space 401k! =ƒÿè @lunettelulu7
Matthias Ancaladron Wrath of Angels Solitaire. 306	Posted - 2017.05.22 21:01:18 - [29] - Quote Thomas Lot wrote: This is basic economic theory. By adding the small skill injector option, CCP is increasing demand for the skill extractors which are only available through PLEX purchases in the New Eden Store. The increased demand for PLEX will result in an additional increase in PLEX prices which are already being inflated to the point of insanity since the PLEX split. Prediction: Before the winter, it will cost 2 Billion ISK for one month of Game Time. I predicted 2b Plex prices weeks ago. Please take your number and wait in the outrage line behind me thank-you.
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6492	Posted - 2017.05.22 21:15:13 - [30] - Quote Thomas Lot wrote: This is basic economic theory. By adding the small skill injector option, CCP is increasing demand for the skill extractors which are only available through PLEX purchases in the New Eden Store. The increased demand for PLEX will result in an additional increase in PLEX prices which are already being inflated to the point of insanity since the PLEX split. Prediction: Before the winter, it will cost 2 Billion ISK for one month of Game Time. You should move beyond basic economic theory. When a change in policy or the like is announced ahead of time, the price effect tends to show up right after the announcement. For example, if CCP announced that a certain faction item was going to drop much less frequently, say only 1/10th as much, weGÇÖd see the price of that good go up immediately, not when the effect actually takes place. The reason for this is that people are forward looking and they now know something about the future with certainty and thus when something is going to become more scarce those items around today also become more valuable. So all these prognostications regarding PLEX prices going to 2 billionGÇª.why arenGÇÖt we seeing it right now? What is preventing this from happening? After all, if the price of PLEX is going to hit 2 billion in a few months, why are people not buying them up now and thus driving the price up to 2 billion in short order? Maybe "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Blade Darth Room for Improvement Limited Expectations 166	Posted - 2017.05.22 21:17:18 - [31] - Quote I predict 3-4b if we don't get better npc AI/ reworked sites (capital rats in anoms or something) and current trend of "not enough destruction" continues. Omen Navy Issue Tutorial
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6492	Posted - 2017.05.22 21:25:39 - [32] - Quote Blade Darth wrote: I predict 3-4b if we don't get better npc AI/ reworked sites (capital rats in anoms or something) and current trend of "not enough destruction" continues. I fail to see the logic here.... "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Sonya Corvinus Grant Village 1202	Posted - 2017.05.22 22:05:29 - [33] - Quote Don Pera Saissore wrote: In my country i have to work about 6 hours to make 10 dollars. You are privileged but too stupid to realise it, you also have a misconception that in order to make isk one needs to grind. To answer your question, yes i can earn for a plex in one hour, my record was 2.3bil in about 2 hours. Its not something that happenes every day, i was lucky that time. "privileged". I moved 2,500 miles away from my family on my own to find a better job, and worked 90 hour weeks for years to put myself through school to prove I deserve a better job. If that makes me privileged, then fine. I also didn't play video games when doing that. If you are in a position where you have to work 6 hours to make ten dollars, you shouldn't be playing video games. That was kind of my point.
Indahmawar Fazmarai 5852	Posted - 2017.05.22 22:23:21 - [34] - Quote Sonya Corvinus wrote: Don Pera Saissore wrote: In my country i have to work about 6 hours to make 10 dollars. You are privileged but too stupid to realise it, you also have a misconception that in order to make isk one needs to grind. To answer your question, yes i can earn for a plex in one hour, my record was 2.3bil in about 2 hours. Its not something that happenes every day, i was lucky that time. "privileged". I moved 2,500 miles away from my family on my own to find a better job, and worked 90 hour weeks for years to put myself through school to prove I deserve a better job. If that makes me privileged, then fine. I also didn't play video games when doing that. If you are in a position where you have to work 6 hours to make ten dollars, you shouldn't be playing video games. That was kind of my point. Probably next time he shouldn't be born in places like Serbia, Bulgaria, Bolivia or Brazil, where the minimal wage is about 1.50 USD per hour. ...silly 'muricans...
Sonya Corvinus Grant Village 1202	Posted - 2017.05.22 22:47:51 - [35] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Probably next time he shouldn't be born in places like Serbia, Bulgaria, Bolivia or Brazil, where the minimal wage is about 1.50 USD per hour. ...silly 'muricans... Today I learned it's impossible for people to move. Did you miss the part where I moved thousands of miles to have a shot at a good job? I moved thousands of miles with only what I could carry with me. One more time, if you can't afford $10.95/mo, stop playing video games and focus on your life. But I forgot, I'm american, so there's no possibility I had a **** life for decades.
Mr Epeen It's All About Me 11157	Posted - 2017.05.23 00:35:20 - [36] - Quote Sonya Corvinus wrote: Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Probably next time he shouldn't be born in places like Serbia, Bulgaria, Bolivia or Brazil, where the minimal wage is about 1.50 USD per hour. ...silly 'muricans... Today I learned it's impossible for people to move. Did you miss the part where I moved thousands of miles to have a shot at a good job? I moved thousands of miles with only what I could carry with me. One more time, if you can't afford $10.95/mo, stop playing video games and focus on your life. But I forgot, I'm american, so there's no possibility I had a ** life for decades. The problem with people who grow up with privilege and entitlement (Trust me. You are one of them), is that they just don't get it. When you come to realize that your decades of ** life is still a level of luxury that much of the worlds people can never attain, you'll be one step closer to being a decent person. Insulting people because they are less well off than you through no fault but being born elsewhere is lame. The whole point of PLEX purchase with ISK is because CCP gets it. Even though you don't. This is why you see threads like this. Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 15881	Posted - 2017.05.23 02:05:53 - [37] - Quote EVE is a western game with prices set in western currencies, if you can't afford it that's tough but no one owes you access to entertainment software. Playing EVE if your minimum wage is $1.5 per hour would be like someone in my country playing EVE if it were $53 per month (for a yearly sub) then complaining about the price.
Nana Skalski Taisaanat Kotei 33906	Posted - 2017.05.23 10:13:19 - [38] - Quote But, you can play EVE for free. =ƒÿ¢ ß¦çß¦áß¦ç-Ç-Å ß¦ÿß¦Ç-Çß¦¢ ß¦Å-ô ß¦Ç +óß¦Çß¦ìß¦ç -£ß¦ç-ƒß¦ÿs ß¦¢ß¦Å ß¦¢ß¦ç-ƒ-ƒ ß¦Ç sß¦¢ß¦Å-Ç-Å =ƒôò ß¦í-£ß¦ç-Çß¦ç +¬s ß¦Ç+¦+ó-Ç-Å ß¦äß¦Å+¦ß¦äß¦Å-Çß¦à +óß¦£-Å ß¦í-£ß¦ç+¦ -Åß¦Åß¦£ +¦ß¦çß¦çß¦à -£+¬ß¦ì ß¦Åsß¦ÿ-Çß¦ç-Å =ƒÜÇ GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
Rudolphus Indomitus PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 0	Posted - 2017.05.23 11:51:35 - [39] - Quote As a new Eve player I have concerns with Plex and skill injectors how can I know that when I buy skill injector or try to exchange Plex for Isk i don't buy from goldfarmers that are forced to slave labor in sweetshops
Punisher Ofara Amar Adventurers 23	Posted - 2017.05.23 13:42:19 - [40] - Quote I live in a "priviled country" and earn a respectable salary of a well-educated person in a permanent full-time job, but STILL I have to grind for PLEX in-game. The expenses of running a family are so high that I simply don't have fifteen bucks to spend on a computer game each month. But hey, I like the grind, I like spending my life watching space rocks melt through the MIGHTY POWER of my mining lasers!!! Or talk to those fine people that are NPC agents, or play the 0.01 ISK reaction-game with my fellow players. Or haul goods - no - numbers(!) in my virtual spaceships through gate after gate. THAT, is what Eve for me is all about. Hard work. Enjoy it, or CRY and enjoy it. Your choice.

Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3355	Posted - 2017.05.23 16:21:15 - [41] - Quote Don Pera Saissore wrote: In my country i have to work about 6 hours to make 10 dollars. You are privileged but too stupid to realise it, you also have a misconception that in order to make isk one needs to grind. To answer your question, yes i can earn for a plex in one hour, my record was 2.3bil in about 2 hours. Its not something that happenes every day, i was lucky that time. EVE is a luxury product. If you can't afford it, then don't. It's as simple as that.
Sonya Corvinus Grant Village 1206	Posted - 2017.05.23 22:45:22 - [42] - Quote Mr Epeen wrote: The problem with people who grow up with privilege and entitlement (Trust me. You are one of them), is that they just don't get it. When you come to realize that your decades of **** life is still a level of luxury that much of the worlds people can never attain, you'll be one step closer to being a decent person. Insulting people because they are less well off than you through no fault but being born elsewhere is lame. The whole point of PLEX purchase with ISK is because CCP gets it. Even though you don't. This is why you see threads like this.Game time with ISK is the only option for many, so they are concerned when the price jumps. Mr Epeen Growing up under an abusive alcoholic father and having to work full time since I was 12 to be able to eat makes me privileged? F*ck off mate. Jesus, your arrogance. That you talk about insulting people after what you just said is very ironic though.... One more time kitten, if you can't afford to pay a few dollars per month to play a video game, you shouldn't be paying games in the first place.
Punisher Ofara Amar Adventurers 24	Posted - 2017.05.23 22:52:23 - [43] - Quote You're talking about hardship!?!? Geez, I had to cook my own food since I was 19!! And I've had to work full time since graduating from college! You know nothing about a difficult life. Imagine having to tie your own shoe laces, since age 10! Try living my childhood and then come tell me that yours was hard. Did your father play lego with you? That's right, mine stopped playing with me when I turned 18, your dad is probably still building your lego cities for you. EDIT: I think explains it perfectly how hard a childhood I had, which was surely much harder than any of you guys had. Even the ones born in caves in the Antarctic to penguin parents. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo
Sonya Corvinus Grant Village 1206	Posted - 2017.05.23 22:56:13 - [44] - Quote Punisher Ofara wrote: You're talking about hardship!?!? Geez, I had to cook my own food since I was 19!! And I've had to work full time since graduating from college! You know nothing about a difficult life. Imagine having to tie your own shoe laces, since age 10! Try living my childhood and then come tell me that yours was hard. Did your father play lego with you? That's right, mine stopped playing with me when I turned 18, your dad is probably still building your lego cities for you. EDIT: I think explains it perfectly how hard a childhood I had, which was surely much harder than any of you guys had. Even the ones born in caves in the Antarctic to penguin parents. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo 1/10, troll harder plz
Pix Severus Empty You 6489	Posted - 2017.05.23 23:07:21 - [45] - Quote If you have issues with your spawn location in EVE Offline, consider petitioning the dev, I hear he listens to all of them. MTU Hunter: Latest Entry - May 23 2017 - MTU Mailbag MTU Hunting 101: Comprehensive Guide
Joan Maetsuycker Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2017.05.24 14:21:14 - [46] - Quote The alpha account is for people that cannot afford or don't want a subscription. When you can afford a subscription I cannot see the wisdom in it why you would Plex your account.
Lfod Shi Lfod's Ratting and Salvage 391	Posted - 2017.05.25 03:01:57 - [47] - Quote If CCP wants to drive up plex prices in the hopes of more real $$ subs, then that's their call. Without real $$ the game ends for everyone. GÖ¬ They'll always be bloodclaws to me GÖ½
Kaeden 3142 State Protectorate Caldari State 11	Posted - 2017.05.25 06:22:25 - [48] - Quote I think for CCP this change has worked well for them. The devaluation of in- game ISK would disrupt RMT market model.
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 800	Posted - 2017.05.25 06:28:34 - [49] - Quote Everything you want to now about PLEX: Fanfest 2014 - Economy: Into the Second Decade "I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
Bjorn Tyrson EVE University Ivy League 648	Posted - 2017.05.25 11:01:18 - [50] - Quote Lfod Shi wrote: If CCP wants to drive up plex prices in the hopes of more real $$ subs, then that's their call. Without real $$ the game ends for everyone. Learn how plex works please

Lfod Shi Lfod's Ratting and Salvage 391	Posted - 2017.05.25 11:51:02 - [51] - Quote Bjorn Tyrson wrote: Lfod Shi wrote: If CCP wants to drive up plex prices in the hopes of more real $$ subs, then that's their call. Without real $$ the game ends for everyone. Learn how plex works please I know how it works. I also know how business works. GÖ¬ They'll always be bloodclaws to me GÖ½
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3356	Posted - 2017.05.25 12:32:35 - [52] - Quote Lfod Shi wrote: Bjorn Tyrson wrote: Lfod Shi wrote: If CCP wants to drive up plex prices in the hopes of more real $$ subs, then that's their call. Without real $$ the game ends for everyone. Learn how plex works please I know how it works. I also know how business works. An account subbed with PLEX bring in more money than an account subbed with direct subscription.
Nana Skalski Taisaanat Kotei 34033	Posted - 2017.05.25 12:39:32 - [53] - Quote Its easier to spend PLEX now. Demand will grow even more. ß¦çß¦áß¦ç-Ç-Å ß¦ÿß¦Ç-Çß¦¢ ß¦Å-ô ß¦Ç +óß¦Çß¦ìß¦ç -£ß¦ç-ƒß¦ÿs ß¦¢ß¦Å ß¦¢ß¦ç-ƒ-ƒ ß¦Ç sß¦¢ß¦Å-Ç-Å =ƒôò ß¦í-£ß¦ç-Çß¦ç +¬s ß¦Ç+¦+ó-Ç-Å ß¦äß¦Å+¦ß¦äß¦Å-Çß¦à +óß¦£-Å ß¦í-£ß¦ç+¦ -Åß¦Åß¦£ +¦ß¦çß¦çß¦à -£+¬ß¦ì ß¦Åsß¦ÿ-Çß¦ç-Å =ƒÜÇ GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
Salvos Rhoska 2940	Posted - 2017.05.25 12:41:50 - [54] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: An account subbed with PLEX bring in more money than an account subbed with direct subscription. I get what you mean to say, but the above is not correct. An account subbed with PLEX brings in zero money. Only purchase of PLEX from CCP brings in money, or subbing directly. That PLEX is used to purchase various services ingame, in no case earns CCP even a cent. PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 15907	Posted - 2017.05.25 12:53:59 - [55] - Quote Salvos Rhoska wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: An account subbed with PLEX bring in more money than an account subbed with direct subscription. I get what you mean to say, but the above is not correct. An account subbed with PLEX brings in zero money. Only purchase of PLEX from CCP brings in money, or subbing directly. That PLEX is used to purchase various services ingame, in no case earns CCP even a cent. Frostys is right. someone has to buy the PLEX in the 1st place, this means that an account subbed with plex represents more actual money to CCP than an account subbed any other way. Also, the way CCPs accounting works, the income is not actually added to their books until the PLEX is consumed. So in a very real sense, as soon as someone clicks the button to activate the plex, CCP receives bacon (cash). The reason people explain (and constantly have to re-explain) the fact that PLEX makes CCP more money than other forums of subscribing is because so many people demonstrate that they don't get it. They think that somehow them using PLEX is costing CCP money because they aren't personally giving CCP any money, when (again) PLEX use means MORE money for CCP. All of the stupid "CCP is manipulating PLEX" conspiracy stuff comes from this basic misunderstanding.
Nana Skalski Taisaanat Kotei 34034	Posted - 2017.05.25 12:58:39 - [56] - Quote There are two phases of life of the PLEX. First, its purchased from CCP and then it is removed from game in exchange for stuff. These are things that make PLEX price grow: More PLEX leaving economy results in more demand for it. Less PLEX purchased results in more demand for it. Creating PLEX fund for allocation of wealth results in more demand for it, as its removing PLEX for a time from the economy. ß¦çß¦áß¦ç-Ç-Å ß¦ÿß¦Ç-Çß¦¢ ß¦Å-ô ß¦Ç +óß¦Çß¦ìß¦ç -£ß¦ç-ƒß¦ÿs ß¦¢ß¦Å ß¦¢ß¦ç-ƒ-ƒ ß¦Ç sß¦¢ß¦Å-Ç-Å =ƒôò ß¦í-£ß¦ç-Çß¦ç +¬s ß¦Ç+¦+ó-Ç-Å ß¦äß¦Å+¦ß¦äß¦Å-Çß¦à +óß¦£-Å ß¦í-£ß¦ç+¦ -Åß¦Åß¦£ +¦ß¦çß¦çß¦à -£+¬ß¦ì ß¦Åsß¦ÿ-Çß¦ç-Å =ƒÜÇ GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
Salvos Rhoska 2940	Posted - 2017.05.25 13:17:23 - [57] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Salvos Rhoska wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: An account subbed with PLEX bring in more money than an account subbed with direct subscription. I get what you mean to say, but the above is not correct. An account subbed with PLEX brings in zero money. Only purchase of PLEX from CCP brings in money, or subbing directly. That PLEX is used to purchase various services ingame, in no case earns CCP even a cent. Frostys is right. someone has to buy the PLEX in the 1st place, this means that an account subbed with plex represents more actual money to CCP than an account subbed any other way. Also, the way CCPs accounting works, the income is not actually added to their books until the PLEX is consumed. So in a very real sense, as soon as someone clicks the button to activate the plex, CCP receives bacon (cash). The reason people explain (and constantly have to re-explain) the fact that PLEX makes CCP more money than other forums of subscribing is because so many people demonstrate that they don't get it. They think that somehow them using PLEX is costing CCP money because they aren't personally giving CCP any money, when (again) PLEX use means MORE money for CCP. All of the stupid "CCP is manipulating PLEX" conspiracy stuff comes from this basic misunderstanding. AURUM used to be the currency of the EVE store. Now, it is all PLEX. Frostys was literally wrong. An account subbed by PLEX earns CCP nothing. Only the purchase of that PLEX from CCP earns them. When someone expends 500 PLEX to purchase time, CCP earns nothing, except a tiny swing in the market to incentivize another PLEX purchase from them. They dont earn from people using PLEX. They earn from people buying them from CCP. The ingame value of PLEX subbing AND secondary EVE store purchases, now is entirely subservient to the value of PLEX ingame in isk. PLEX stockpilers now hold CCP by the balls as to the incentive for players to purchase PLEX ingame, or without, as a factor of its ingame value. In other words, CCPs PLEX/sub income, is now hinged on PLEX stockpilers actions ingame, more than ever before. CCP now depends on the PLEX rich to determine the value/incentive of their own cash income. PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3357	Posted - 2017.05.25 13:34:45 - [58] - Quote Salvos Rhoska wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: Salvos Rhoska wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: An account subbed with PLEX bring in more money than an account subbed with direct subscription. I get what you mean to say, but the above is not correct. An account subbed with PLEX brings in zero money. Only purchase of PLEX from CCP brings in money, or subbing directly. That PLEX is used to purchase various services ingame, in no case earns CCP even a cent. Frostys is right. someone has to buy the PLEX in the 1st place, this means that an account subbed with plex represents more actual money to CCP than an account subbed any other way. Also, the way CCPs accounting works, the income is not actually added to their books until the PLEX is consumed. So in a very real sense, as soon as someone clicks the button to activate the plex, CCP receives bacon (cash). The reason people explain (and constantly have to re-explain) the fact that PLEX makes CCP more money than other forums of subscribing is because so many people demonstrate that they don't get it. They think that somehow them using PLEX is costing CCP money because they aren't personally giving CCP any money, when (again) PLEX use means MORE money for CCP. All of the stupid "CCP is manipulating PLEX" conspiracy stuff comes from this basic misunderstanding. AURUM used to be the currency of the EVE store. Now, it is all PLEX. Frostys was literally wrong. An account subbed by PLEX earns CCP nothing. Only the purchase of that PLEX from CCP earns them. When someone expends 500 PLEX to purchase time, CCP earns nothing, except a tiny swing in the market to incentivize another PLEX purchase from them. They dont earn from people using PLEX. They earn from people buying them from CCP. The ingame value of PLEX subbing AND secondary EVE store purchases, now is entirely subservient to the value of PLEX ingame in isk. PLEX stockpilers now hold CCP by the balls as to the incentive for players to purchase PLEX ingame, or without, as a factor of its ingame value. If they withhold, CCP incomes goes up. If they dump, CCPs income goes down. In the books, the money is not written as earned as long as the PLEX has not been used on whatever service you want to use it, be it sub, character services or the store for some fancy glasses. At the end of the day, PLEX is a currency. It's like transferring your euros to USD except in the case of PLEX, you can't transfer back to the previous currency and this particular currency happen to be of nil value outside of CCP's product offering. CCP only "earn" your money when the PLEX are used. All hoarded PLEX are still pending usage for the associated money to become "income" by CCP.
Salvos Rhoska 2941	Posted - 2017.05.25 13:44:04 - [59] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: CCP only "earn" your money when the PLEX are used. All hoarded PLEX are still pending usage for the associated money to become "income" by CCP. Yes. Ergo: CCPs earnings are sitting in PLEX stockpilers pockets and dependant on their actions. PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Lfod Shi Lfod's Ratting and Salvage 391	Posted - 2017.05.25 13:50:45 - [60] - Quote For clarification: When I said "real $$ sub" I assumed people would understand that buying plex with real $$ was included in that statement. Silly me. I know better than to assume anything. GÖ¬ They'll always be bloodclaws to me GÖ½

Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3357	Posted - 2017.05.25 15:54:58 - [61] - Quote Salvos Rhoska wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: CCP only "earn" your money when the PLEX are used. All hoarded PLEX are still pending usage for the associated money to become "income" by CCP. Jenn aSide wrote: Also, the way CCPs accounting works, the income is not actually added to their books until the PLEX is consumed. So in a very real sense, as soon as someone clicks the button to activate the plex, CCP receives bacon (cash). Yes. Ergo: CCPs earnings are sitting in PLEX stockpilers pockets and dependant on their actions. Stockpilers control the ingame PLEX market via isk, and by extension, CCP's earning via cash. 1) If they withhold PLEX, CCP's income goes up, as supply decreases and incentive to sub/buy PLEX increases. 2) If they dump PLEX, CCP's income goes down, as supply increases and incentive to sub/buy PLEX decreases. He whom controls the PLEX, controls EVE. Shareholders may have control of CCP, but PLEX stockpilers control CCP's income. That's like saying the miners hold EVE by the balls because no ship can exist without minerals.
Nana Skalski Taisaanat Kotei 34037	Posted - 2017.05.25 16:39:28 - [62] - Quote I have suspicions that they are not holding CCP by the balls, it may look so, but in fact its pleasurable fondlling. Else CCP would not boast about record earnings and develop different games. ß¦çß¦áß¦ç-Ç-Å ß¦ÿß¦Ç-Çß¦¢ ß¦Å-ô ß¦Ç +óß¦Çß¦ìß¦ç -£ß¦ç-ƒß¦ÿs ß¦¢ß¦Å ß¦¢ß¦ç-ƒ-ƒ ß¦Ç sß¦¢ß¦Å-Ç-Å =ƒôò ß¦í-£ß¦ç-Çß¦ç +¬s ß¦Ç+¦+ó-Ç-Å ß¦äß¦Å+¦ß¦äß¦Å-Çß¦à +óß¦£-Å ß¦í-£ß¦ç+¦ -Åß¦Åß¦£ +¦ß¦çß¦çß¦à -£+¬ß¦ì ß¦Åsß¦ÿ-Çß¦ç-Å =ƒÜÇ GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
Clandestiny Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 37	Posted - 2017.05.25 16:51:15 - [63] - Quote Sonya Corvinus wrote: $10.95/mo is so much cheaper than plex is now from a time perspective ("grinding for money" IRL compared to griding for ISK) I don't see why anyone would ever actually buy plex in game.... May I ask where you live? I live in the Mid-South, USA. 5/23/17 CROSS BORDER FEE Miscellaneous/Bill Pay (BP)-$0.30 5/23/17 CCP GAMES ORDERID:3718 Amusement & Entertainment-$14.95 So I'd like the $10.95 fee vs $15.25. Thanks G¥ñGò½GòƒGòûAGòÑGòûKG¥ñGòÖGòóOUG¥ñ =ƒÄ»GåÆ=ƒÜÇ
Clandestiny Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 37	Posted - 2017.05.25 17:00:32 - [64] - Quote As opposed to 500 PLEX: 5/11/17 CROSS BORDER FEE Miscellaneous/Bill Pay (BP)-$0.40 5/11/17EVE ONLINE ITEMS Amusement & Entertainment-$19.99 $20.39 for PLEX or $15.25 for a 1-month sub? $15.25 is 39% higher than $10.95. $20.39 is 34% higher than $15.25. What gives? G¥ñGò½GòƒGòûAGòÑGòûKG¥ñGòÖGòóOUG¥ñ =ƒÄ»GåÆ=ƒÜÇ
Salvos Rhoska 2944	Posted - 2017.05.25 17:04:09 - [65] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Salvos Rhoska wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: CCP only "earn" your money when the PLEX are used. All hoarded PLEX are still pending usage for the associated money to become "income" by CCP. Jenn aSide wrote: Also, the way CCPs accounting works, the income is not actually added to their books until the PLEX is consumed. So in a very real sense, as soon as someone clicks the button to activate the plex, CCP receives bacon (cash). Yes. Ergo: CCPs earnings are sitting in PLEX stockpilers pockets and dependant on their actions. Stockpilers control the ingame PLEX market via isk, and by extension, CCP's earning via cash. 1) If they withhold PLEX, CCP's income goes up, as supply decreases and incentive to sub/buy PLEX increases. 2) If they dump PLEX, CCP's income goes down, as supply increases and incentive to sub/buy PLEX decreases. He whom controls the PLEX, controls EVE. Shareholders may have control of CCP, but PLEX stockpilers control CCP's income. That's like saying the miners hold EVE by the balls because no ship can exist without minerals. Yes. Without minerals, no ships can be built. Did you have a point? PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Mr Epeen It's All About Me 11194	Posted - 2017.05.25 17:49:45 - [66] - Quote Clandestiny wrote: Sonya Corvinus wrote: $10.95/mo is so much cheaper than plex is now from a time perspective ("grinding for money" IRL compared to griding for ISK) I don't see why anyone would ever actually buy plex in game.... May I ask where you live? I live in the Mid-South, USA. 5/23/17 CROSS BORDER FEE Miscellaneous/Bill Pay (BP)-$0.30 5/23/17 CCP GAMES ORDERID:3718 Amusement & Entertainment-$14.95 So I'd like the $10.95 fee vs $15.25. Thanks There is no $10.95 option. There is a $131.40 option. If you want a months playtime for $10.95, it'll cost you a yearly sub. But admitting that inconvenient truth sort of defeats the argument put forward. Just ignore Sonya. Mr Epeen
Chainsaw Plankton FaDoyToy 3072	Posted - 2017.05.25 18:50:57 - [67] - Quote Clandestiny wrote: As opposed to 500 PLEX: 5/11/17 CROSS BORDER FEE Miscellaneous/Bill Pay (BP)-$0.40 5/11/17EVE ONLINE ITEMS Amusement & Entertainment-$19.99 $20.39 for PLEX or $15.25 for a 1-month sub? $15.25 is 39% higher than $10.95. $20.39 is 34% higher than $15.25. What gives? plex can be used for more than subbing an account and it is an in game tradable item so it sells for a premium. If you just want to sub you can pay for the sub directly for $15 per month. and as pointed out the 10.95 is the monthly rate when you sub for a full year at a time. selling officer BCUs! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6872141 @ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Defecanda Ice Mining Boys Requiem Eternal 57	Posted - 2017.05.25 21:50:02 - [68] - Quote Where did all these virtual economists get their credentials? [i][b]CCP Zulu.....-á-á-á-á-á Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience.-á[/b](i like to steal sigs)[/i]
Chainsaw Plankton FaDoyToy 3073	Posted - 2017.05.25 22:06:19 - [69] - Quote Defecanda wrote: Where did all these virtual economists get their credentials? eve taught me more on economics than school did. selling officer BCUs! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6872141 @ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Sonya Corvinus Grant Village 1213	Posted - 2017.05.25 23:28:24 - [70] - Quote Mr Epeen wrote: There is no $10.95 option. There is a $131.40 option. If you want a months playtime for $10.95, it'll cost you a yearly sub. But admitting that inconvenient truth sort of defeats the argument put forward. Just ignore Sonya. Mr Epeen Ah yes, today I learned a year's subscription divided by 12 months doesn't make sense. Not only are you an as*hole, but bad at math too. But hey, you showed how big your epeen is with a forum alt, so we should take you super seriously Good god the stupidity.... Try to hide your trolling harder, tiger.

Shallanna Yassavi Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 540	Posted - 2017.05.25 23:58:03 - [71] - Quote Salvos Rhoska wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: CCP only "earn" your money when the PLEX are used. All hoarded PLEX are still pending usage for the associated money to become "income" by CCP. Jenn aSide wrote: Also, the way CCPs accounting works, the income is not actually added to their books until the PLEX is consumed. So in a very real sense, as soon as someone clicks the button to activate the plex, CCP receives bacon (cash). Yes. Ergo: CCPs earnings are sitting in PLEX stockpilers pockets and dependant on their actions. Stockpilers control the ingame PLEX market via isk, and by extension, CCP's earning via cash. 1) If they withhold PLEX, CCP's income goes up, as supply decreases and incentive to sub/buy PLEX increases. 2) If they dump PLEX, CCP's income goes down, as supply increases and incentive to sub/buy PLEX decreases. He whom controls the PLEX, controls EVE. Shareholders may have control of CCP, but PLEX stockpilers control CCP's income. Detail: PLEX in somebody's stockpile is considered as "services paid for but not rendered." If the stockpilers dump and people actually use the PLEX, CCP can consider services paid for and rendered. CCP can't just go use the whole worth of all the PLEX because they have to consider what happens if the hoarders unsub a lot of accounts and start burning their stockpile for game time. A signature :o
Spc One Sulek Nolich 03 318	Posted - 2017.05.26 00:16:47 - [72] - Quote Thomas Lot wrote: Prediction: Before the winter, it will cost 2 Billion ISK for one month of Game Time. And alot of players will stop playing.
Rena Skjem Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave 4	Posted - 2017.05.26 13:55:04 - [73] - Quote Sonya Corvinus wrote: I moved 1000 miles You just moved from one city to another. But you moved INSIDE country. You didnt need to get a VISA\greencard\whatever to move there or learn new language. "moving" is difficult. Especially if it is not from one city to another inside country. You were able to do it? Good for you, but dont assume that everyone is living in america and have a 10$/hour minimum wage. Some places got 85$/month minimum wage. woah. LESS THEN A DOLLAH. And those ppl can play BECAUSE they can convert real life time into gametime. So plex prices going up will make them quit and thats kinda bad. But who am i? I dont live in America and i didnt move 1000miles so my opinion doesnt matter, amirite?
Salvos Rhoska 2950	Posted - 2017.05.26 14:06:51 - [74] - Quote Rena Skjem wrote: Some places got 85$/month minimum wage. woah. LESS THEN A DOLLAH. And those ppl can play BECAUSE they can convert real life time into gametime. So plex prices going up will make them quit and thats kinda bad. Absolutely correct. EVE is global. PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 15915	Posted - 2017.05.26 14:42:09 - [75] - Quote The last time CCP gave us demographics information was 2008, but there is no reason to think that this has shifted majorly. The majority of EVE players come from places where EVE Online is easily affordable, the idea that something, some kind of intervention by someone (coughCCPLEASEcough) is just the same old self serving "I don't like plex prices but I don't want to use real money" BS that always happens when plex prices rise. Oddly enough, it is the second reply in the last link that is spot on: Mr Epeen wrote: Here's the solution in one sentence: If you find the price too high, don't buy it. Glad I could help. Mr Epeen
Salvos Rhoska 2950	Posted - 2017.05.26 15:03:14 - [76] - Quote Players buying PLEX ingame creates demand. PLEX, and hence CCPs income from PLEX sales, depends on it. If players are priced out of the ingame PLEX market, it is guaranteed to result in less player activity. PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 15915	Posted - 2017.05.26 15:26:43 - [77] - Quote Salvos Rhoska wrote: Players buying PLEX ingame creates demand. PLEX, and hence CCPs income from PLEX sales, depends on it. If players are priced out of the ingame PLEX market, it is guaranteed to result in less player activity. Poor players (IRL) play to PLEX. They may not contribute to CCPs funds directly, but they do keep activity/content alive, as paid for by some IRL richer player. If that segment of players is priced out of the market, and drops out of EVE, it will have some pretty severe repercussions for EVE and CCP. Furthermore, these players love EVE as much as any of us, despite their IRL income being less than ours. Its not good to lose them, even though they pay with isk rather than cash, for the same experience. \ Remember what was said in this thread, go back and look through some videos of the 2015 fanfest, not a lot of people relatively speaking use PLEx for game time. Most people paid subs before the 'clone states' change allowed free to play. And plex was cheaper 2 years ago so there is no reason to think this has changed. It's much ado about nothing, just like the "omg isboxer is going away, subs will plummet!" histeria that people use to cover up the fact that they are space rich ISK-misers that don't like spending more space money on plex. Right now game time for EVE only costs 45 million isk per day in game (or 50 cents USD per day out of game for a month to month sub). That's 40-45 minutes of afking an Ishtar in an anomaly in null sec one time per day, or following this Burner mission guide in high sec for 15 minutes a day, or joining an incursion fleet and doing TWO sites with the fleet once per day (average 15 minute wait to get in fleet and 30 minutes to do 2 HQ sites with the communities I run with). If the country you are in is so poor that you can't generate 50 cents (USD) per day to pay a sub, and you are so pitiful at EVE PVE that you can't spend 15-45 minutes generating the 45 mil per day you need to play as an Omega without spending 50 cents per day, you shouldn't be playing EVE (or owning a computer at all) in the 1st place.
Nicolai Serkanner Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 698	Posted - 2017.05.26 15:47:25 - [78] - Quote Salvos Rhoska wrote: Players buying PLEX ingame creates demand. PLEX, and hence CCPs income from PLEX sales, depends on it. If players are priced out of the ingame PLEX market, it is guaranteed to result in less player activity. Poor players (IRL) play to PLEX. They may not contribute to CCPs funds directly, but they do keep activity/content alive, as paid for by some IRL richer player. If that segment of players is priced out of the market, and drops out of EVE, it will have some pretty severe repercussions for EVE and CCP. Furthermore, these players love EVE as much as any of us, despite their IRL income being less than ours. Its not good to lose them, even though they pay with isk rather than cash, for the same experience. PLEX is the gold standard of EVE. The higher PLEX rises, it invariably, and deterministically draws up the price index of everything else. The more players are priced out of the PLEX market, and who are otherwise unable/unwilling to sub, the less market demand there is in EVE for anything, as well as less supply. PLEX prices will not drop as a result of reduced demand by loss of these IRL players, it will increase in proportion to the attrition of these players whom actively bought PLEX and whom had the greatest demand for it. The remaining PLEX market will be among the rich, both ingame and without. IRl poor players constitute a completely different market segment, with different characteristics. They play to PLEX. They need PLEX inorder to remain ingame. Whereas to us, subbing and isk is trivial, to them its like oxygen. If they cant make it to a PLEX in a month, they run out of oxygen, and die ingame. These are the players whom buoy the PLEX market. They buy PLEX every single month, out of necessity. They are the largest segment of PLEX CONSUMERS. They play very hard, very actively and very passionately inorder to achieve that. Losing them, and the content they provide, is not good for EVE. What a bunch of utter crap! And no, I am not going to explain why, figure it out yourself.
Scialt Universal Sanitation Corporation 150	Posted - 2017.05.26 15:49:42 - [79] - Quote Clandestiny wrote: Sonya Corvinus wrote: $10.95/mo is so much cheaper than plex is now from a time perspective ("grinding for money" IRL compared to griding for ISK) I don't see why anyone would ever actually buy plex in game.... May I ask where you live? I live in the Mid-South, USA. 5/23/17 CROSS BORDER FEE Miscellaneous/Bill Pay (BP)-$0.30 5/23/17 CCP GAMES ORDERID:3718 Amusement & Entertainment-$14.95 So I'd like the $10.95 fee vs $15.25. Thanks If you buy a year at a time, it's 10.95 per month. I bought a year when I cam back to go from Alpha to Omega (which still appears to be active). It cost 100 dollars (or maybe it was 99). That's 8.34 a month.
Salvos Rhoska 2952	Posted - 2017.05.26 15:50:30 - [80] - Quote You underestimate the fragility of the PLEX system. Its primary CONSUMERS are people that play to PLEX. Once they are priced out of the market, not only will activity rates drop, but the PLEX market will go haywire. PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent

Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 15922	Posted - 2017.05.26 16:26:25 - [81] - Quote People say this every time, the PLEX market is at risk. I could link "omg plex prices" posts here all day from 2013 on up. And not just from this forum. Very simply question then. WHY hasn't it happened yet? People claim that terrible things are going to happen because PLEX is too expensive. So when is the big fall going to happen? Why didn't EVE just explode on November 19, 2014? Donima wrote: Plex on the marker in eve has just reached 1 billion isk. The increase in price if this commodity is outrageous. Especially when you consider that just 2 years ago it was only 500mil. And back in 2009 it was just under 200mil. That means it grew 300 mil over 3 years and then 500 mil in just under 2yrs with nearly 200mil of that being just in the last month or 2. Now some may say this is due to inflation or increasing avenue for income stream. But nowhere of those explain why Plex prices have skyrocketed so drastically while every other commodity has practically stayed stagnant. Many players rely on the ability to pay isk to play because they can't afford to pay with real money such as broke college students or others affected by a down turned economy. But these prices are making it extremely difficult for these people to afford the time to be able to afford to Plex their account. My concern is that if CCP doesn't do something about this soon, they will be losing a lot of their more consistent player basis and we as capsuleers might be losing a lot of our industrial friends. I ask CCP to consider this market commodity as an exploited market item right now and look for a way to fix it as soon as possible. Any day now, PLEX prices are gonna kill EVE!!!!!! Edit: I like how that post tried to make it sound like it wasn't that the poster was mad about plex prices for herself but rather the poster's concern for "broke college students and folks hurt by the economic downturn" lol. It's great that we have now evolved to being concerned that some people now live in countries where the minimum wage is $1.50 U.S. per hour.... It's like history repeats itself over and over and over again.
Chainsaw Plankton FaDoyToy 3080	Posted - 2017.05.26 19:26:06 - [82] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Any day now, PLEX prices are gonna kill EVE!!!!!! OH NOES!!!1!~ selling officer BCUs! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6872141 @ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 15922	Posted - 2017.05.26 19:32:42 - [83] - Quote Chainsaw Plankton wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: Any day now, PLEX prices are gonna kill EVE!!!!!! OH NOES!!!1!~ It's true, I seen it! I would love to coin a new phrase based off the number 1 rule of EVE. "Don't fly what you can't afford to lose" should be joined by "if you can't afford to pay, don't even PLEX" (because plex will go up and you will feel really bad).
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3358	Posted - 2017.05.26 20:40:28 - [84] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Chainsaw Plankton wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: Any day now, PLEX prices are gonna kill EVE!!!!!! OH NOES!!!1!~ It's true, I seen it! I would love to coin a new phrase based off the number 1 rule of EVE. "Don't fly what you can't afford to lose" should be joined by "if you can't afford to pay, don't even PLEX" (because plex will go up and you will feel really bad). While it might be bad for CCP, anyone who can't afford to play should probably leave anyway and burn their time on something more productive for them than pixel submarines. EVE is relatively cheap as entertainment but it's still a luxury after all.
Indahmawar Fazmarai 5860	Posted - 2017.05.27 07:23:25 - [85] - Quote Sonya Corvinus wrote: Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Probably next time he shouldn't be born in places like Serbia, Bulgaria, Bolivia or Brazil, where the minimal wage is about 1.50 USD per hour. ...silly 'muricans... Today I learned it's impossible for people to move. Did you miss the part where I moved thousands of miles to have a shot at a good job? I moved thousands of miles with only what I could carry with me. One more time, if you can't afford $10.95/mo, stop playing video games and focus on your life. But I forgot, I'm american, so there's no possibility I had a **** life for decades. Moving within your country is not "moving". Also there's a well known fact that people who start down and reach to the top usually suffer from survivorship bias ("If I made it, why they don't try?"), forgetting the random opportunities they enjoyed. And by the way, a person can have a perfectly focused life (like having an appartment and a internet connection and a computer) and yet be stupid if they spent money in videogames they can pay with just gametime.
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6512	Posted - 2017.05.27 07:41:35 - [86] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Sonya Corvinus wrote: Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Probably next time he shouldn't be born in places like Serbia, Bulgaria, Bolivia or Brazil, where the minimal wage is about 1.50 USD per hour. ...silly 'muricans... Today I learned it's impossible for people to move. Did you miss the part where I moved thousands of miles to have a shot at a good job? I moved thousands of miles with only what I could carry with me. One more time, if you can't afford $10.95/mo, stop playing video games and focus on your life. But I forgot, I'm american, so there's no possibility I had a **** life for decades. Moving within your country is not "moving". Also there's a well known fact that people who start down and reach to the top usually suffer from survivorship bias ("If I made it, why they don't try?"), forgetting the random opportunities they enjoyed. And by the way, a person can have a perfectly focused life (like having an appartment and a internet connection and a computer) and yet be stupid if they spent money in videogames they can pay with just gametime. Actually, yes moving within a country is still moving. Maybe not as stressful as moving to a foreign country, but at this point you are arguing over who is the tallest pygmy. As for using game time to "pay", if you like "grinding" and thereby make enough ISK to PLEX your account, yes then that makes sense. However if grinding is in fact a real grind and you can afford a yearly subscription, then grinding makes little sense...that opportunity cost thing you know. Nothing is free in life. And excellent point on survival bias and selection bias in general. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Sylvia Kildare Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 65	Posted - 2017.05.27 08:18:13 - [87] - Quote Marika Sunji wrote: Don Pera Saissore wrote: Sonya Corvinus wrote: I don't see why anyone would ever actually buy plex in game.... I wish i was stupid and privileged like you First off, way to escalate, wow. Second, where I live, a ****** minimum-wage job pays for subscription in under half the time it would take to grind a plex in-game, and that is with currency conversion. However, some people keep more than one account going. If paid entirely in real world cash, that can add up fast. A lot of multiboxers use a mix of subs and PLEX to balance that out a bit, if they make enough money in game that they don't mind buying PLEX with some of it, that is.
Sylvia Kildare Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 65	Posted - 2017.05.27 08:28:35 - [88] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: The reason people explain (and constantly have to re-explain) the fact that PLEX makes CCP more money than other forums of subscribing is because so many people demonstrate that they don't get it. They think that somehow them using PLEX is costing CCP money because they aren't personally giving CCP any money, when (again) PLEX use means MORE money for CCP. True, but... that said, there are people who just will not sub. And if the PLEX price in-game becomes too expensive for them, they won't be PLEXing or subbing. If the demand for PLEX falls then the supply will stagnate and there will be less and less incentive for the people who make ISK out of buying PLEX for real cash to buy more of it... ofc, that's supposed to lower the ISK price enough to make it attractive enough for people to buy it to PLEX their accounts with again. But some people just aren't going to come back. At least not anytime soon. The player count will continue to dip as people get turned off by the boom and bust cycles.
March rabbit Mosquito squadron The-Culture 2185	Posted - 2017.05.27 08:29:27 - [89] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Moving within your country is not "moving". Also there's a well known fact that people who start down and reach to the top usually suffer from survivorship bias ("If I made it, why they don't try?"), forgetting the random opportunities they enjoyed. Actually, yes moving within a country is still moving. Maybe not as stressful as moving to a foreign country, but at this point you are arguing over who is the tallest pygmy. One can say that flying to Mars is "not much different" from flying to Moon.... But some time you get exponential raise of difficulty by just adding one more step or condition.... But in general i agree: people CAN move if they really want it. The only thing that stops you - it is youself. The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Indahmawar Fazmarai 5861	Posted - 2017.05.27 13:47:25 - [90] - Quote March rabbit wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Moving within your country is not "moving". Also there's a well known fact that people who start down and reach to the top usually suffer from survivorship bias ("If I made it, why they don't try?"), forgetting the random opportunities they enjoyed. Actually, yes moving within a country is still moving. Maybe not as stressful as moving to a foreign country, but at this point you are arguing over who is the tallest pygmy. One can say that flying to Mars is "not much different" from flying to Moon.... But some time you get exponential raise of difficulty by just adding one more step or condition.... But in general i agree: people CAN move if they really want it. The only thing that stops you - it is youself. And frontiers. And the random but non-neglectable chance to die along the way if you're trying to move from a country where 1 month of subscription to EVE is a daily wage to one where it's a hourly wage. Which is the thing that upset me about that stupid comment about "focusing" and "moving". An American moves to another city in the States and thinks he haves a effin clue on what it's like to move from a underdeveloped country to the "welcoming" and "open armed" developed ones. Very specially, the USA...

Bjorn Tyrson EVE University Ivy League 652	Posted - 2017.05.27 14:55:58 - [91] - Quote Sylvia Kildare wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: True, but... that said, there are people who just will not sub. And if the PLEX price in-game becomes too expensive for them, they won't be PLEXing or subbing. If the demand for PLEX falls then the supply will stagnate and there will be less and less incentive for the people who make ISK out of buying PLEX for real cash to buy more of it... ofc, that's supposed to lower the ISK price enough to make it attractive enough for people to buy it to PLEX their accounts with again. But some people just aren't going to come back. At least not anytime soon. The player count will continue to dip as people get turned off by the boom and bust cycles. and what percentage of the player base do you suppose this actually is? we already know from ccp that only a minority of players actually plex their accounts vs regular sub. which is something that you also understand. [quote] However, some people keep more than one account going. If paid entirely in real world cash, that can add up fast. A lot of multiboxers use a mix of subs and PLEX to balance that out a bit, if they make enough money in game that they don't mind buying PLEX with some of it, that is. multiboxers are also a minority of the eve population, but I would be more than willing to bet that they make up the majority of people who plex. which means that the people who ONLY use plex with zero accounts subbed, are a minority of a minority. and even if "some" won't come back if plex prices drop again, thats now a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the player base that you are debating for. Sure, if plex prices get so astronomically high that my alt accounts stop making me a profit (hasn't happened yet, and there is some considerable room before that would happen, prices would need to double without the injector market moving at all to keep up before that would happen) then yeah, I might start trimming some of my accounts. and if the reduced demand and increased supply from people wanting to cash out on 3b plex pushes the prices back down to the point of making sense again, well then i'd re-plex them. and i'm sure that i'm hardly alone in that. so the actual impact on sub numbers, both long term and short term, is going to be much MUCH less than you seem to be implying. out of all the things that could be making sub numbers go down, plex prices are hardly one of the bigger ones. (as an aside, I find it interesting that the plex price scare seems to keep popping up every 2 years or so almost like clockwork... does this mean that the game is actually GASP getting new players who don't remember the last big price scare? almost like the majority of the player base isn't actually just a handful of bitter vets and their alts sitting on mountains of plex)
Sylvia Kildare Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 71	Posted - 2017.05.30 06:05:27 - [92] - Quote Bjorn Tyrson wrote: multiboxers are also a minority of the eve population, but I would be more than willing to bet that they make up the majority of people who plex. which means that the people who ONLY use plex with zero accounts subbed, are a minority of a minority. and even if "some" won't come back if plex prices drop again, thats now a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the player base that you are debating for. Sure, if plex prices get so astronomically high that my alt accounts stop making me a profit (hasn't happened yet, and there is some considerable room before that would happen, prices would need to double without the injector market moving at all to keep up before that would happen) then yeah, I might start trimming some of my accounts. and if the reduced demand and increased supply from people wanting to cash out on 3b plex pushes the prices back down to the point of making sense again, well then i'd re-plex them. and i'm sure that i'm hardly alone in that. so the actual impact on sub numbers, both long term and short term, is going to be much MUCH less than you seem to be implying. out of all the things that could be making sub numbers go down, plex prices are hardly one of the bigger ones. (as an aside, I find it interesting that the plex price scare seems to keep popping up every 2 years or so almost like clockwork... does this mean that the game is actually GASP getting new players who don't remember the last big price scare? almost like the majority of the player base isn't actually just a handful of bitter vets and their alts sitting on mountains of plex) I don't know how many people in EVE have 2 or more accounts. I believe someone once estimated the average # of accts per player... can't remember the #, tho. 1.8? 2.1? somewhere around 2, I think. Not that every single person has 2, ofc, there's people with 10-20 or more who tilt the average upwards vs. 20 newbies with just one account each. But part of my point was that while someone might say "well, if it's too hard for these multiboxers to support all of their accounts with PLEX due to the rising prices, why not just scale back down to 1 account?" there are a lot of multiboxers who are only playing the game because of how useful it is to have more than one account. And if faced with the choice of downscaling back down to one main and no alts... or just not playing/subbing/plexing at all... some (not sure if most or not) will decide on the latter choice. Even if that's a minority of the playerbase and a relatively small impact, it still seems like a bad outcome. Have you seen the average players logged in graphs for the past few years? Ever since 2013, we're on a downhill side. I actually started my first account in June 2013, so I was never here before the top of that hill and can't compare the feeling of now to back then, but... it does feel like EVE is getting emptier and emptier a lot, outside of Jita and Amarr's populations at least. I don't mind it in some ways, but a lot of people do, so just wanted to point out that PLEX inflation might have a little something to do with that from a multiboxer POV. Full disclosure: I was a dualboxer who became a tripleboxer due to needing a booster toon, I'm perfectly happy with just 2. But I'd never want to drop back down to 1. Ever. Too many useful things you can only do with 2 or so much more easily with 2 that doing them with 1 once you've experienced it with 2 is painful to contemplate. I've never had more than 3 accounts so can't speak to the super dozens+ acct multiboxer experience, that's a whole other shebang.
Salvos Rhoska 2968	Posted - 2017.05.30 10:42:02 - [93] - Quote There is so much PLEX stockpiled ingame, especially by players whom otherwise are already multibillionaires or trillionaire entities, that PLEX will never drop. They dont need the isk. They just sit on the PLEX and watch the price rise year after year. They continue to withdraw PLEX from the market with expendable isk, year after year, to appreciate the value of their existing stockpiles. The rough 200-300mil increase in PLEX price ingame just allows them to increasingly leverage their PLEX against loans or collateral for other exchanges, thus generating even more isk income/liquidity. Meanwhile, smaller entities struggle to meet PLEX cost in activities that have not increased in profitability at even 1% of the PLEX isk price per year. They can barely match inflation. Newer players/entities are being starved out of the game, except if they sub. Whereas older players/entities (whom notably have earned extensively not only on PLEX price increase, but also numerous CCP fk ups that they profited from before they where patched put over the years), leads to one conclusion: -CCPs income is now based on how many players choose to sub. -PLEX is become a true niche. ---There is so much stockpiled PLEX ingame, it dwarfs introduction of new PLEX per month, year, or even multiple years. ---PLEX stockpilers control the price of PLEX ingame. ---A player will attempt to PLEX, before they sub. ---A player will attenpt to sub with PLEX, before they buy PLEX from CCP. PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 15948	Posted - 2017.05.30 13:34:43 - [94] - Quote Bjorn Tyrson wrote: (as an aside, I find it interesting that the plex price scare seems to keep popping up every 2 years or so almost like clockwork... does this mean that the game is actually GASP getting new players who don't remember the last big price scare? almost like the majority of the player base isn't actually just a handful of bitter vets and their alts sitting on mountains of plex) Pretty much, though if you look at the link I posted somewhere in this thread (I think it was this one) you will see some of the same plex Doomsayers posting. At least some of the people complaining about plex prices (in the past, and now) are people for whom plex price is mostly irrelevant, ie they are veteran players with more than enough wealth to pay 4 or 5 times what plex costs now, they just really don't like to spend money on anything, even if it's play (space) money. Hellfire, I rat with sub-capital ships (multiboxing my Mach, and a couple VNIs) to make isk. Enough plex to buy game time for my 4 accounts is fast approaching 6 bil per month, I probably have a harder time buying gametime via plex than a lot of people who complain about plex prices. IMO it's all about mindset. I know plex is a luxury and that the truth is that it's been a ludacris miracle that game time has been so cheap for all this time that a few hours of killing rats is all it took. Knowing that (and knowing that it could not last) I never subbed more accounts than I could reasonably pay for with cash, so as plex rises to where it probably should have always been in the 1st place, I'm not surprised nor do I really lose anything if I have to switch to cash to keep playing. TL;DR plex price anxiety is a self inflicted wound.
Salvos Rhoska 2983	Posted - 2017.05.30 15:18:41 - [95] - Quote Every year, more and more PLEX is stockpiled. The PLEX market is owned by ingame entities, not CCP. All CCP can hope for, is more subs. PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Gimme Sake State War Academy Caldari State 538	Posted - 2017.05.30 17:06:39 - [96] - Quote Salvos Rhoska wrote: Every year, more and more PLEX is stockpiled. . You don't know that. It is just a supposition. Some players may brag about their stash but they may as well be trolling. Old vets with 20-30 alts might sub 1-3 accounts but the rest of the alts swallow plex. "Never not blob!" ~ Plato
Sylvia Kildare Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 74	Posted - 2017.05.31 06:13:28 - [97] - Quote Salvos Rhoska wrote: There is so much PLEX stockpiled ingame, especially by players whom otherwise are already multibillionaires or trillionaire entities, that PLEX will never drop. They dont need the isk. They just sit on the PLEX and watch the price rise year after year. They continue to withdraw PLEX from the market with expendable isk, year after year, to appreciate the value of their existing stockpiles. ... Except PLEX did drop. Last year, during WW Bee + Citadel introduction. Sure, it was a wild set of circumstances that doesn't happen every day, but PLEX dropped from 1.4 bil or somewhere around there (around what it effectively is now) down to 800-900 mil ISK. Some sellers were ditching it in the 700s, but they were the exception to the rule. It only lasted for a short while, but PLEX fell by 50%! It was so relatively cheap a year ago... that yes, I'm sure the stockpilers just stockpiled even more at the time. Now it's up 200% and they can, as you say, cash out a bit here and there whenever they want some spending money, without really making much of a dent in their stash. Salvos Rhoska wrote: Every year, more and more PLEX is stockpiled. The PLEX market is owned by ingame entities, not CCP. All CCP can hope for, is more subs. More subs would be nice for CCP, sure, but more plex purchases on the website is also really nice for CCP since it's overpriced compared to 12 month sub rates, which is what a lot of people keep trying to remind folks of in topics like this. Gimme Sake wrote: You don't know that. It is just a supposition. Some players may brag about their stash but they may as well be trolling. Old vets with 20-30 alts might sub 1-3 accounts but the rest of the alts swallow plex. Well, CCP knows how many PLEX are out there that haven't been cashed in yet for services.
Callum Perkins Wormbro The Society For Unethical Treatment Of Sleepers 0	Posted - 2017.05.31 11:27:57 - [98] - Quote Great time to buy PLEX then eyy?
Salvos Rhoska 2989	Posted - 2017.05.31 12:43:40 - [99] - Quote PLEX price has dropped occasionally but its always bounced back and risen even higher than ever before thereafter. The value of PLEX in isk is determined entirely ingame, not by CCP, or by PLEX purchases from CCP. Even if/when CCP dumps confiscated PLEX, the isk value of that is still determined entirely ingame, and always bounces back even higher than before. The obfuscated element there, is the vast stockpiles of unused PLEX ingame that skews supply in perpetuity. The introduction of PLEX per month into EVE (or even per year), is utterly dwarfed by existing stockpiles in EVE already. Player behavior is the following: -PLEX with isk if you can. -Sub with cash if you cant. -Sub with PLEX/isk ingame, and buy PLEX with cash for isk conversion. -Sub + buy PLEX with cash if you have money to burn. TLDR: CCPs income from PLEX sales is a niche, and furthermore, its value ingame is controlled by ingame entities. Subs are universal and cheaper than PLEX as purchased from CCP. Result: The wealthiest players ingame dont have have to sub. Less wealthy players can try to PLEX, but the higher the price, the harder it gets. Thus its newer/poorer players that provide CCP with its sub income. Thus the income of CCP is increasingly dependent on subs from newer/ingame poorer players. PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
KaarBaak Squirrel Team 434	Posted - 2017.05.31 14:14:34 - [100] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: People say this every time, the PLEX market is at risk. I could link "omg plex prices" posts here all day from 2013 on up. And not just from this forum. Very simply question then. WHY hasn't it happened yet? People claim that terrible things are going to happen because PLEX is too expensive. So when is the big fall going to happen? Why didn't EVE just explode on November 19, 2014? Donima wrote: Plex on the marker in eve has just reached 1 billion isk. The increase in price if this commodity is outrageous. Especially when you consider that just 2 years ago it was only 500mil. And back in 2009 it was just under 200mil. That means it grew 300 mil over 3 years and then 500 mil in just under 2yrs with nearly 200mil of that being just in the last month or 2. Now some may say this is due to inflation or increasing avenue for income stream. But nowhere of those explain why Plex prices have skyrocketed so drastically while every other commodity has practically stayed stagnant. Many players rely on the ability to pay isk to play because they can't afford to pay with real money such as broke college students or others affected by a down turned economy. But these prices are making it extremely difficult for these people to afford the time to be able to afford to Plex their account. My concern is that if CCP doesn't do something about this soon, they will be losing a lot of their more consistent player basis and we as capsuleers might be losing a lot of our industrial friends. I ask CCP to consider this market commodity as an exploited market item right now and look for a way to fix it as soon as possible. Any day now, PLEX prices are gonna kill EVE!!!!!! Edit: I like how that post tried to make it sound like it wasn't that the poster was mad about plex prices for herself but rather the poster's concern for "broke college students and folks hurt by the economic downturn" lol. It's great that we have now evolved to being concerned that some people now live in countries where the minimum wage is $1.50 U.S. per hour.... It's like history repeats itself over and over and over again. PLEX isn't going to kill EvE online. It's like saying bad driving is going to kill an old person. There can be no doubt that EvE is "fading." See link If the concurrent user count is nearly the same as it was pre-F2P, and you have to assume that some of those users are now F2P users, then the number of paid accounts is at or below the F2P bump. What the actual numbers are? Only the folks in the boardroom know. The big mystery is where is the point of no return? Similar to Dust, when is someone going to say the numbers no longer justify...development...maintenance...keeping the lights on? But, much like your aging grandmother, players need to prepare themselves. Could be tomorrow...could be two years from now. But the trend is obvious. EvE has been in a slow population decline since 2013. KB Dum Spiro Spero

Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 15960	Posted - 2017.05.31 14:27:55 - [101] - Quote KaarBaak wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: People say this every time, the PLEX market is at risk. I could link "omg plex prices" posts here all day from 2013 on up. And not just from this forum. Very simply question then. WHY hasn't it happened yet? People claim that terrible things are going to happen because PLEX is too expensive. So when is the big fall going to happen? Why didn't EVE just explode on November 19, 2014? Donima wrote: Plex on the marker in eve has just reached 1 billion isk. The increase in price if this commodity is outrageous. Especially when you consider that just 2 years ago it was only 500mil. And back in 2009 it was just under 200mil. That means it grew 300 mil over 3 years and then 500 mil in just under 2yrs with nearly 200mil of that being just in the last month or 2. Now some may say this is due to inflation or increasing avenue for income stream. But nowhere of those explain why Plex prices have skyrocketed so drastically while every other commodity has practically stayed stagnant. Many players rely on the ability to pay isk to play because they can't afford to pay with real money such as broke college students or others affected by a down turned economy. But these prices are making it extremely difficult for these people to afford the time to be able to afford to Plex their account. My concern is that if CCP doesn't do something about this soon, they will be losing a lot of their more consistent player basis and we as capsuleers might be losing a lot of our industrial friends. I ask CCP to consider this market commodity as an exploited market item right now and look for a way to fix it as soon as possible. Any day now, PLEX prices are gonna kill EVE!!!!!! Edit: I like how that post tried to make it sound like it wasn't that the poster was mad about plex prices for herself but rather the poster's concern for "broke college students and folks hurt by the economic downturn" lol. It's great that we have now evolved to being concerned that some people now live in countries where the minimum wage is $1.50 U.S. per hour.... It's like history repeats itself over and over and over again. PLEX isn't going to kill EvE online. It's like saying bad driving is going to kill an old person. There can be no doubt that EvE is "fading." See link If the concurrent user count is nearly the same as it was pre-F2P, and you have to assume that some of those users are now F2P users, then the number of paid accounts is at or below the F2P bump. What the actual numbers are? Only the folks in the boardroom know. The big mystery is where is the point of no return? Similar to Dust, when is someone going to say the numbers no longer justify...development...maintenance...keeping the lights on? But, much like your aging grandmother, players need to prepare themselves. Could be tomorrow...could be two years from now. But the trend is obvious. EvE has been in a slow population decline since 2013. KB This is just the EVE version of 'doomsday anxiety' (the evidence is the part I highlighted). It's silly, a company that just had it's most profitable year in it's history isn't going anywhere anytime soon, and even if it did up and die tomorrow, EVE is just a video game. Seems like I've had this same conversation before lol.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3362	Posted - 2017.05.31 14:48:06 - [102] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: KaarBaak wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: People say this every time, the PLEX market is at risk. I could link "omg plex prices" posts here all day from 2013 on up. And not just from this forum. Very simply question then. WHY hasn't it happened yet? People claim that terrible things are going to happen because PLEX is too expensive. So when is the big fall going to happen? Why didn't EVE just explode on November 19, 2014? Donima wrote: Plex on the marker in eve has just reached 1 billion isk. The increase in price if this commodity is outrageous. Especially when you consider that just 2 years ago it was only 500mil. And back in 2009 it was just under 200mil. That means it grew 300 mil over 3 years and then 500 mil in just under 2yrs with nearly 200mil of that being just in the last month or 2. Now some may say this is due to inflation or increasing avenue for income stream. But nowhere of those explain why Plex prices have skyrocketed so drastically while every other commodity has practically stayed stagnant. Many players rely on the ability to pay isk to play because they can't afford to pay with real money such as broke college students or others affected by a down turned economy. But these prices are making it extremely difficult for these people to afford the time to be able to afford to Plex their account. My concern is that if CCP doesn't do something about this soon, they will be losing a lot of their more consistent player basis and we as capsuleers might be losing a lot of our industrial friends. I ask CCP to consider this market commodity as an exploited market item right now and look for a way to fix it as soon as possible. Any day now, PLEX prices are gonna kill EVE!!!!!! Edit: I like how that post tried to make it sound like it wasn't that the poster was mad about plex prices for herself but rather the poster's concern for "broke college students and folks hurt by the economic downturn" lol. It's great that we have now evolved to being concerned that some people now live in countries where the minimum wage is $1.50 U.S. per hour.... It's like history repeats itself over and over and over again. PLEX isn't going to kill EvE online. It's like saying bad driving is going to kill an old person. There can be no doubt that EvE is "fading." See link If the concurrent user count is nearly the same as it was pre-F2P, and you have to assume that some of those users are now F2P users, then the number of paid accounts is at or below the F2P bump. What the actual numbers are? Only the folks in the boardroom know. The big mystery is where is the point of no return? Similar to Dust, when is someone going to say the numbers no longer justify...development...maintenance...keeping the lights on? But, much like your aging grandmother, players need to prepare themselves. Could be tomorrow...could be two years from now. But the trend is obvious. EvE has been in a slow population decline since 2013. KB This is just the EVE version of 'doomsday anxiety' (the evidence is the part I highlighted). It's silly, a company that just had it's most profitable year in it's history isn't going anywhere anytime soon, and even if it did up and die tomorrow, EVE is just a video game. Seems like I've had this same conversation before lol. I'm not gonna say this isn't doomsday howling but we have to take into account the "most profitable year" also happen to be the "most micro-transaction heavy year" where they added a bunch of stuff we have absolutely have no idea how long the market will need. Subs a good for a company because it's usually somewhat consistent. We still don't know how the SP market will evolve for example. It might be a somewhat endless fountain of revenue if the demand stays high or it might change if it's just a rush until people are happy with how much different ship they can use. Let's just keep on playing and see how it actually pans out.
KaarBaak Squirrel Team 434	Posted - 2017.05.31 14:48:36 - [103] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: [quote=KaarBaak] Seems like I've had this same conversation before lol. That's because nothing has changed since then. Dum Spiro Spero
Salvos Rhoska 2991	Posted - 2017.05.31 15:14:56 - [104] - Quote KaarBaak wrote: PLEX isn't going to kill EvE online. That CCP fragmented PLEX is a very strong indicator that CCPs PLEX income has dropped. They are trying to make it more accessible in incremental amounts for less expendable cash. I dont think it will work: A) The less PLEX you buy with cash, the less your equity. They are a bad deal. The less PLEX you buy, the less you get for your buck. B) There is so goddam much stockpiled PLEX ingame that players now own the PLEX market, and by extension, the incentive to sub. CCP has lost control of its own revenue in EVE. PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 15960	Posted - 2017.05.31 15:15:12 - [105] - Quote KaarBaak wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: [quote=KaarBaak] Seems like I've had this same conversation before lol. That's because nothing has changed since then. 10 years from now I'll be able to say the same thing, just like I was 10 years ago. That's the point lol. Rejoice, only 59 more days to the 14th annual EVE IS DYING day.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3363	Posted - 2017.05.31 15:17:29 - [106] - Quote Salvos Rhoska wrote: B) There is so goddam much stockpiled PLEX ingame that players now own the PLEX market, and by extension, the incentive to sub. Proof? Or is this again something you pulled out of your ass?
Salvos Rhoska 2991	Posted - 2017.05.31 15:19:00 - [107] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: 10 years from now I'll be able to say the same thing, just like I was 10 years ago.. This isnt 10 years ago, or 10 years from now. Dont be so naive as to think many things havent changed between then, now, and into the future. Because something has worked in the past, is no insurance or surity it will continue into the future. Otherwise we would all be citizens of the Roman Empire. PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 15960	Posted - 2017.05.31 15:23:00 - [108] - Quote Salvos Rhoska wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: 10 years from now I'll be able to say the same thing, just like I was 10 years ago.. This isnt 10 years ago, or 10 years from now. Dont be so naive as to think many things havent changed between then, now, and into the future. Because something has worked in the past, is no insurance or surity it will continue into the future. Otherwise we would all be citizens of the Roman Empire. I guess we'll find out on the 31st of May 2027. See you then. me hibernates
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3363	Posted - 2017.05.31 15:30:28 - [109] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Salvos Rhoska wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: 10 years from now I'll be able to say the same thing, just like I was 10 years ago.. This isnt 10 years ago, or 10 years from now. Dont be so naive as to think many things havent changed between then, now, and into the future. Because something has worked in the past, is no insurance or surity it will continue into the future. Otherwise we would all be citizens of the Roman Empire. I guess we'll find out on the 31st of May 2027. See you then. me hibernates You can't hibernate!!! There are rats that need killin' ...
Gimme Sake State War Academy Caldari State 546	Posted - 2017.05.31 15:33:58 - [110] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: Salvos Rhoska wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: 10 years from now I'll be able to say the same thing, just like I was 10 years ago.. This isnt 10 years ago, or 10 years from now. Dont be so naive as to think many things havent changed between then, now, and into the future. Because something has worked in the past, is no insurance or surity it will continue into the future. Otherwise we would all be citizens of the Roman Empire. I guess we'll find out on the 31st of May 2027. See you then. me hibernates You can't hibernate!!! There are rats that need killin' ... It's called afk rating. "Never not blob!" ~ Plato

Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 15961	Posted - 2017.05.31 15:39:32 - [111] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: Salvos Rhoska wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: 10 years from now I'll be able to say the same thing, just like I was 10 years ago.. This isnt 10 years ago, or 10 years from now. Dont be so naive as to think many things havent changed between then, now, and into the future. Because something has worked in the past, is no insurance or surity it will continue into the future. Otherwise we would all be citizens of the Roman Empire. I guess we'll find out on the 31st of May 2027. See you then. me hibernates You can't hibernate!!! There are rats that need killin' ... Crap, I forgot about the Guristas menace. 2 million more rat kills should do it.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3364	Posted - 2017.05.31 16:22:42 - [112] - Quote Gimme Sake wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: Salvos Rhoska wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: 10 years from now I'll be able to say the same thing, just like I was 10 years ago.. This isnt 10 years ago, or 10 years from now. Dont be so naive as to think many things havent changed between then, now, and into the future. Because something has worked in the past, is no insurance or surity it will continue into the future. Otherwise we would all be citizens of the Roman Empire. I guess we'll find out on the 31st of May 2027. See you then. me hibernates You can't hibernate!!! There are rats that need killin' ... It's called afk rating. Can't warp tot he next anom if you are hibernating. AFK ratting also need to die in a fire but vOv...
Salvos Rhoska 3009	Posted - 2017.05.31 16:51:32 - [113] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: I guess we'll find out on the 31st of May 2027. See you then. I dont think so. PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6535	Posted - 2017.05.31 16:59:05 - [114] - Quote Mr Epeen wrote: Clandestiny wrote: Sonya Corvinus wrote: $10.95/mo is so much cheaper than plex is now from a time perspective ("grinding for money" IRL compared to griding for ISK) I don't see why anyone would ever actually buy plex in game.... May I ask where you live? I live in the Mid-South, USA. 5/23/17 CROSS BORDER FEE Miscellaneous/Bill Pay (BP)-$0.30 5/23/17 CCP GAMES ORDERID:3718 Amusement & Entertainment-$14.95 So I'd like the $10.95 fee vs $15.25. Thanks There is no $10.95 option. There is a $131.40 option. If you want a months playtime for $10.95, it'll cost you a yearly sub. But admitting that inconvenient truth sort of defeats the argument put forward. Just ignore Sonya. Mr Epeen It is the same thing. I get paid an annual salary. Does that mean I get paid 1x a year? No. I get paid 26 times a year. So I could convert my annual salary to a bi-weekly salary by dividing by 26. If I wanted to get an implicit hourly salary or wage, I'd then divide by 80. Why is this hard? If I pay an annual sub, my implicit monthly cost is $10.95. This is simple math and there anyone disputing this has trouble with basic facts. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Mr Epeen It's All About Me 11239	Posted - 2017.05.31 17:01:57 - [115] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: It is the same thing. That's not even remotely true in the context of the discussion. Mr Epeen
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6535	Posted - 2017.05.31 17:03:41 - [116] - Quote Mr Epeen wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: It is the same thing. That's not even remotely true in the context of the discussion. Mr Epeen "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 15962	Posted - 2017.05.31 17:11:26 - [117] - Quote Mr Epeen wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: It is the same thing. That's not even remotely true in the context of the discussion. Mr Epeen Yes it is, you just don't want it to be. EVE costs an average of $10.95 at it's lowest subscription price (which you get if you pay yearly). $15 is its price if you pay monthly with cash and 19.99 monthly pay monthly with plex. The fact that you can't pay monthly for $10.95 doesn't make that amount not be the average cost (and lowest cost) of EVE Online. All of which is moot. If you cannot afford $15 USD per month to play EVE (multiplied by however many accounts one wishes to use), that sucks but it's no emergency or some reason for CCP to intervene in the plex market like some want (whether they'd admit it or not), EVE is a video game made for entertainment purposes and no one owes anyone access to a video game.
KaarBaak Squirrel Team 436	Posted - 2017.05.31 18:05:24 - [118] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: KaarBaak wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: [quote=KaarBaak] Seems like I've had this same conversation before lol. That's because nothing has changed since then. 10 years from now I'll be able to say the same thing, just like I was 10 years ago. That's the point lol. Rejoice, only 59 more days to the 14th annual EVE IS DYING day. Your quoted link wasn't from 10 years ago. It was from 2 years ago. EvE was in decline 2 years ago. Your second link was, as far as I can tell very near EvE's peak. That was akin to someone singing the praises of universal home ownership in 2007. 10 years ago? EvE was growing. 10 years from now? EvE will be an interesting Wikipedia entry. You're welcome to say whatever you like whenever you like. Doesn't make it true. It's just math. Dum Spiro Spero
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory. 15965	Posted - 2017.05.31 18:10:19 - [119] - Quote KaarBaak wrote: Your quoted link wasn't from 10 years ago. It was from 2 years ago. EvE was in decline 2 years ago. Your second link was, as far as I can tell very near EvE's peak. That was akin to someone singing the praises of universal home ownership in 2007. 10 years ago? EvE was growing. 10 years from now? EvE will be an interesting Wikipedia entry. You're welcome to say whatever you like whenever you like. Doesn't make it true. It's just math. It's just anxiety. It's the fear that something you (probably) feel 'invested in' might suddenly go away. I don't know the future, but I know I've heard this same BS for the entire time I've been playing and it's just a dumb thing to worry about. People do it about real life too, hypochondriacs so worried about dying and getting sick that they don't do anything to enjoy the life they have right now. People at work so worried they will get laid off that the stress affects their home lives worse than if they got laid off... If it is a wikipedia entry in 10 years, I'll be able to look at it and remember how much fun I had NOT worrying about how soon it would end.
Teckos Pech Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6538	Posted - 2017.05.31 18:10:24 - [120] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Mr Epeen wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: It is the same thing. That's not even remotely true in the context of the discussion. Mr Epeen Yes it is, you just don't want it to be. EVE costs an average of $10.95 at it's lowest subscription price (which you get if you pay yearly). $15 is its price if you pay monthly with cash and 19.99 monthly pay monthly with plex. The fact that you can't pay monthly for $10.95 doesn't make that amount not be the average cost (and lowest cost) of EVE Online. All of which is moot. If you cannot afford $15 USD per month to play EVE (multiplied by however many accounts one wishes to use), that sucks but it's no emergency or some reason for CCP to intervene in the plex market like some want (whether they'd admit it or not), EVE is a video game made for entertainment purposes and no one owes anyone access to a video game. EVE is a RIGHT GODDAMMIT! Just like free speech. So I demand that every other EVE players pay more so I an pay less! "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online



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