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The Plight of the Online Farmer

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Devilish Ledoux Caldari Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.05.14 18:02:00 - [1] Heard this story on NPR this morning. I was amused at their characterization of anti-farmer operations as "online murder." Anyway, I thought it would be fun for people to hit them with feedback on this story. And for double nerd points, use your character's name when you reply. I'll even arrange for a prize, should someone from Eve get mentioned when the letters are read. _
ToxicFire Phoenix Knights Dark Nebula Galactic Empire	Posted - 2007.05.14 18:41:00 - [2] Edited by: ToxicFire on 14/05/2007 18:43:26 Edited by: ToxicFire on 14/05/2007 18:41:08 Hmm I laugh a little at that story, people try and apply real world politics to an mmo problem doesn't work, I also note the fact there were no interviews with anyone from the opposit side of the fence, be that games companies or gamers that have gone openly hunting farmers. All it really needs is for a judge in the us to set a legal president (sp?) in a case of a game company versus a farmer, and clearly make it illegal and arguments will be come very clear rather than the fuzzyness there currently is. Technically it is already illegal, its just never been enforced properly as farmers are selling property (virtual currency always belongs to the owning company no matter who earned it ingame) which does not belong to them. Sig removed as it lacks EVE-related content. Mail [email protected] if you have questions. -Hango
Hellspawn01 Amarr Falcon Advanced Industries	Posted - 2007.05.14 18:58:00 - [3] Lol. Those that start working for those companies are aware that they work very hard. Now they want sympathy for ruining games and get abused. Just lol. Serves them right. I dont care if they die from farming. Let them die. Ship lovers click here
Vladimir Norkoff The Black Rabbits	Posted - 2007.05.14 19:04:00 - [4] "...the massacres and online murderous rampages..." against the poor suffering farmers just goes to show the latent racism that is endemic in the online gaming community.. Right.. I am sooo happy that I am forced to help fund such quality journalism..
Ash Vincetti Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.05.14 19:07:00 - [5] Edited by: Ash Vincetti on 14/05/2007 19:05:11 It's not about being "Chinese" gold farmers, it's against gold farmers in general. That this people believe that they are a legitimate business and that there is animosity toward them because of their nationality is simply pandering to the journalists and taking advantage of already perceived biases to make them seem like the victims here. -----
Vorn Dakkar Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.05.14 19:18:00 - [6] Yeah, I agree that the touchy-feely vibe of the piece was a little gag-inducing. It's almost like someone making a case that we shouldn't be mean to telemarketers, they're just doing their jobs. However... if there weren't money to be made (meaning, if there weren't gamers willing to shell out cash for in-game currency) there would be neither telemarketers nor gold farmers. And in a game like EVE, which makes it possible (if not exactly encourages) to engage in behavior that would, in real life, likely result in jail time (piracy, murder, scamming, etc.) it's a little hard to condemn ISK pimps and their johns. That said, I don't spend my real-life money on in-game currency -- but it's not a philosophical thing; it's more because my wife would kill me for spending more than my alotted $14.95 a month on a MMORPG. ;)
Lavinrac Krad	Posted - 2007.05.14 19:33:00 - [7] That is a racist report, they are saying the Chinese should be subservient to US gamers and should just provide us with gold and luxury! I think the Chinese should be more than slaves personally, I think the Chinese should be independent of the American consumer and free to live and work how they see fit. God dammed fascist NPR with their Pro-Sweatshop agenda! So, be proud when you kill a gold farmer (who may not be Chinese, hell they could be some poor kid in your country as well)! You are fighting sweatshops and the exploitation of laborers across the world. WORKERS OF THE WORLD UNITE!
Soporo Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.14 20:29:00 - [8] NPR = leftwing nutjobs with no sense of reality.
Qui Shon	Posted - 2007.05.14 20:39:00 - [9] Originally by: Vorn Dakkar Yeah, I agree that the touchy-feely vibe of the piece was a little gag-inducing. It's almost like someone making a case that we shouldn't be mean to telemarketers, they're just doing their jobs. Um, you shouldn't be mean to telemarketers. They ARE just doing their job. You being mean to them will not lessen the amount of telemarketing going on. The only thing you accomplish is making one persons day worse. Or was there some sarcasm/irony in your statement that I failed to detect?
Rooker Lysian Enterprises	Posted - 2007.05.14 23:45:00 - [10] Hi, My name is Rooker. I am a racist, xenophobic, fat, rich American who oppresses the peace-loving workers and peasants of the People's Republic. Victim: (string of random letters) Alliance: None Corp: (noob corp) Destroyed: Covetor System: Geras Security: 0.7 Involved parties: Name: Rooker (laid the final blow) Security: 4.4 Alliance: None Corp: Lysian Enterprises Ship: Vexor Weapon: Regulated Electron Phase Cannon I Name: Guristas Arrogator / Guristas Destroyed items: Strip Miner I Mining Laser Upgrade I Hammerhead I (Drone Bay) I need help :(
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.05.14 23:52:00 - [11] After listening to that clip i dislike isk farmers even more. ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainfrane]
Nox Solaris	Posted - 2007.05.15 00:43:00 - [12] Yes, especially since they don't provide any way to respond. :/ A 100% one-sided liberalistic piece of tripe.
Phocas Lebournes Minmatar New Justice	Posted - 2007.05.15 00:45:00 - [13] Originally by: Devilish Ledoux Heard this story on NPR this morning. I was amused at their characterization of anti-farmer operations as "online murder." Anyway, I thought it would be fun for people to hit them with feedback on this story. And for double nerd points, use your character's name when you reply. I'll even arrange for a prize, should someone from Eve get mentioned when the letters are read. Yeah and I guess then Blizzard are all racists cause they ban those farmers. rofl Geez, some journalists are really dumber then a box of rocks.
Heavy Nova Gallente	Posted - 2007.05.15 00:46:00 - [14] It's times like this that I adore Eve's cutthroat-ness. See something you don't like? Blow the holy living hell out of it. They should stick to WoW where they have a carebear's paradise. She's so fine, there's no tellin' where the money went.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.05.15 00:51:00 - [15] i laughed and turned it off after two and a half minutes ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
GammaDriver Caldari Lemmings Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.15 00:51:00 - [16] Edited by: GammaDriver on 15/05/2007 00:51:08 Edited by: GammaDriver on 15/05/2007 00:49:53 There is a part of me that doesn't like them for what they affect in the game. But, hey, they pay to play (or their jobs do) the same game as I. So I'm not sure where the radio reporter, or the ISK Farmer manager, get off portraying what some of us choose as our enjoyment within the game as bad. Whomever we choose to target, as long as it's within the game mechanics, seems very fair to me. I'm sure the Russians and Romanians could claim the very same US-led (why do they seem to just skip Europe's influence on games?) animosity in games, but it would be just as invalid an argument. This would be the same as claiming that just because someone didn't like the way pirates affect Eve, they shouldn't have the right to hunt them down.
Devilish Ledoux Caldari Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.05.15 00:53:00 - [17] Originally by: Nox Solaris Yes, especially since they don't provide any way to respond. :/ A 100% one-sided liberalistic piece of tripe. There's a link where you can contact them. They're pretty good at reading emails on the air. Just click "Contact NPR" and have at it. And like I said, if you submit the email under your character's name, and they read it, I'll make sure you get a nice little prize. _
lusifar	Posted - 2007.05.15 01:11:00 - [18] loled.. not like they actually understands why they are not welcome in online games .
Nox Solaris	Posted - 2007.05.15 01:19:00 - [19] Good for you; Since it appears that NPR has made it nearly impossible to respond to a particular news story, you are recieving this response to a recent NPR-news segment rather than the proper channels. If you could forward this to those who would be able to make best use of it, please do so. >>> In response to "Gold Farming" by Luiza Lyn (?) As a player of A MMORG called 'Eve Online' I am downright insulted, slapped in the face and kicked in the groin, upon hearing the travesty of 'pro-gold farming' which aired recently on NPR. The article featured WoW, which I do not play but I understand the gold issue, but in Eve the scourge is no different than it is in WoW. We, the 'time strapped cash rich' western gamers, are reigned in by the End User Liscence Agreement which bans certain behaviours and actions in their game. In Eve, for example, there are three points in the EULA that I would like to bring to the attention of the one-sided NPR report: A) Sale of in-game items, be it ISK or other items, is strictly prohibited and abuse of this rule can lead to warnings and banning. B) Purchasing of said items likewise can lead to warnings/banning. C) Use of third-party programs to automate game actions will lead to immediate banning. Now, here are three rules which the 'Chinese' (sic) ISK farmers completely ignore. They not only ignore it they flaunt it! They slap the 'real' players in the face with their blatant use of third-party macro utilities to automate the 'killing of NPC monsters' to mining to running 'missions'. The game developer, CCP, understands that there are not hundreds, not thousands, but tens of thousands of macro users exploiting the game for financial (in the game or outside the game via ISK-for-cash sales), but have done little to nothing to curb it. The 'gold farmer' boss who claims that Americans think that these games are their sole perview is hardly correct. Americans don't claim WoW, or Eve, or Guild Wars... none of them or others as 'their own'. They only want the abuse of the games they have come to enjoy stopped and the EULA that they follow out of respect, love, honor, or whatever emotion fits for their game enforced for those who don't just abuse it but kick them in the groin repeatedly by their flagrant disregard. [cont]
Nox Solaris	Posted - 2007.05.15 01:21:00 - [20] [cont] Why Murder? As much as I hate to use vulgar language in a response to this, but WTF?? What complete idiocy is this? 'Murder'?? In World of Warcraft a death of an avatar means a sum total of ZERO loss, other than the inconvenience of having to return to the corpse and re-animate it. And I do mean that; ZERO loss. None of their items are dropped, damaged (unless their Player-vs-player flag is 'on'), or destroyed. Slaughtering a toon in Wow is akin to kicking a bully in the shin on the schoolyard. Calling it murder is complete and utter idiocy and personally I think the reporter should retract that entire statment. In Eve Online the slaughtering of a 'macro miner/mission runner' has a markedly different result. Not only does the exploiter loose their ship and modules, but their attacker does as well (in a typical encounter), and their attacker also suffers a 'security' demerit which can render certain areas of the game environment unaccessable to them. Does it hamper the macro user? Yes, that's why the players do it!!! Is it Murder? No more than it is 'Murder' in WoW. The pilot is temporarily inconvenienced and lost a ship, modules, and safety to keep operating in that area, but it is hardly a calamity. What other affects does the abuse of macros and EULA violations cause for players of Eve? As the report said; it causes a large influx of currency which devalues the entire system (marginally). Huge fleets of macro mining ships strip out entire areas, increasing the cost of building materials for everyone and making it extremely difficult for new players to learn many aspects of the game such as mining and industry. Anti ISK-Farmer/Anti-chinese sentiment... This goes far, far beyond WoW or Eve for many Americans who see the reduction in many areas of commercial industry affecting their ability to get decent jobs outside the service industry. Even 'made in the USA' Wal-Mart has becpme glutted with cheap chinese goods... but that's a subject for other discussions. In Eve we find that a great, great many exploiters, when harassed, respond with chinese insults or canned Babelfish-translated insults that typically are the subject of great laughter. CCP actually removed chinese-character support from their IRC based chat client due to the masses of chinese macro exploiters. As a Macro hunter I have never encountered a russian or polish or mexican speaking 'macro' user (though macro programs seldom respond to attempts at initiating communication), only chinese. I find more and more english speaking macro users, however, who have seen CCP's very lacking response and chosen to ignore those aspects of the EULA as well. I.S., Eve-Online
Vorn Dakkar Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.05.15 02:55:00 - [21] Quote: Um, you shouldn't be mean to telemarketers. They ARE just doing their job. You being mean to them will not lessen the amount of telemarketing going on. The only thing you accomplish is making one persons day worse. Or was there some sarcasm/irony in your statement that I failed to detect? I was being slightly sarcastic, although I reserve the right to be mean to anyone who calls me at my home unsolicited, interrupts my evening with my wife and children, and doesn't respond accordingly when I politely say "I'm not interested." I find the entire industry to be parasitic at best, and putting my number on the Do Not Call list was the best 60 seconds I've ever spent. For the record, I was a telemarketer for a brief period. ;)
Feynmen Open Concepts	Posted - 2007.05.15 03:19:00 - [22] Edited by: Feynmen on 15/05/2007 03:19:13 Bah, someone beat me to the EULA, but i did find this in it after a minute of reading: Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVEÖ is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities. Business entities and anyone who is acting for or on behalf of a business or for business purposes may not establish an Account, access the System or play EVEÖ. Accessing the System or using the Game for commercial, business or income-seeking purposes is strictly prohibited. So how does gold farming NOT violate this paragraph? "I don't think anyone really understands Quantum Mechanics." -Quantum Physicist Richard Feynmen
Le Skunk Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.15 03:31:00 - [23] you kill enough isk farming hulks - then someone is gonna get the sack He is sacked - hs cant eat He cant eat --- he dies Knock yourslef out if it makes you feel better SKUNK
Lavinrac Krad	Posted - 2007.05.15 03:52:00 - [24] Originally by: Le Skunk you kill enough isk farming hulks - then someone is gonna get the sack He is sacked - hs cant eat He cant eat --- he dies Knock yourslef out if it makes you feel better SKUNK It is a sweatshop, eventually they are going to fire him/her when they get carpel tunnel (and the bad kind where you can't use your hands because you were clicking away for 12-18 hours straight for 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year, ect...). If people really care about the plight of the worker in what ever country this sweat shop is operating, then they would demand sanctions against the government of the states that support sweat shops or if the sweat shop resides in their own nation, demand vigilance from their own authorities. Also- By making the employer lose money from lost gold/isk you are deterring sweat shops. Anything that increases their cost and decreases their profit is a good thing. Personally I don't hate gold farmers, I hate the people who buy the gold and create the demand. Gold farmers are just people struggling like anyone else.
Amber Leonne Gallente New Eden Technical Institutes	Posted - 2007.05.15 04:23:00 - [25] Quote: it's a little hard to condemn ISK pimps and their johns. LoL, phrase of the day
R0ot InNova Tech Inc Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.15 04:35:00 - [26] How about they go suck a lemon. Isk farmers DIE! ------------------------------------------------------------------
Ancient Cow	Posted - 2007.05.15 05:38:00 - [27] Edited by: Ancient Cow on 15/05/2007 05:43:45 I did play WoW, and the mass third party programs sending tells to everyone saying "Buy Gold Here!" every 10-20 minutes becomes really annoying. Not to mention it ruins a conversation when the tell takes up the entire chat box, blocking any message from a friend. Also coming from WoW, I mine for my blacksmithing mats, and I would clear the mining node of monsters only to see a farmer come up and take it from me. I read someplace that you could be greifed by a bot, but you can't greif the bot. They are not running one character at a time, they run 3 computers at once making sure the program is doing its job. I am for somebody playing a character for you, but only if its a real person playing the character. not some third party botting program running it. Cause then the guy playing it can respond, and play the game fairly. Then just handing the account over to some dude. Not only this, when a game where items affect your skills majorly, farmers also create a vacuum in the economy. Sometimes makes it even harder to sell items of your own, stunting in game character growth. Sometimes this forces you to buy gold/isk. The whole thing about them saying its hard work, and always getting killed and recieving hate is a hate against their race, then they need to get out of their little box, and see that they aren't the only ones doing this. If they don't like that, then go work for nike. racist joke, put your emotional cups on, cuase your emotional crotch is going to get kicked Be like a true asian, and do well in school, and come to america and become a surgeon! All kidding aside, there is a reason why the EULA is there, and going angainst it is a breach of contract. And ruining a game that is for ENTERTAINMENT the gamming community will have little tolerance. Sorry for miss-spellings.
leir	Posted - 2007.05.15 06:23:00 - [28] Originally by: Lavinrac Krad Originally by: Le Skunk you kill enough isk farming hulks - then someone is gonna get the sack He is sacked - hs cant eat He cant eat --- he dies Knock yourslef out if it makes you feel better SKUNK It is a sweatshop, eventually they are going to fire him/her when they get carpel tunnel (and the bad kind where you can't use your hands because you were clicking away for 12-18 hours straight for 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year, ect...). If people really care about the plight of the worker in what ever country this sweat shop is operating, then they would demand sanctions against the government of the states that support sweat shops or if the sweat shop resides in their own nation, demand vigilance from their own authorities. Also- By making the employer lose money from lost gold/isk you are deterring sweat shops. Anything that increases their cost and decreases their profit is a good thing. Personally I don't hate gold farmers, I hate the people who buy the gold and create the demand. Gold farmers are just people struggling like anyone else. I am from China, and I'd like to clear some stuff up. 1. No one is going to die if they get fired from their ISK farming job. 2a. I have never seen or even heard of an actual MMO farming sweatshop - ever. 2b. I think if someone told a chinese worker to sit in front of a computer for wild amounts of time, did not give the worker food/water for long periods of time, did not give the worker breaks, treated the worker rudely, and did not pay the worker well, he would SIMPLY GET UP AND LEAVE, AND SO WOULD ALL HIS CO-WORKERS, thus ruining the company that was foolish enough to try something like that. 2c. Get it out of your heads that 'sweatshop' and 'MMO farmers' have anything to do with eachother. 3. The quote in one of the signatures above me may be inaccurate. As read in the Bible, it does not say "Money is the root of all evil", it says "THE LOVE of money is the root of all evil." I disagree with both quotes. I'm sure some evil has occured somewhere that did not involve the love of money. Money does "cause" a lot of evil things, however. 4. I think the Farming Manager in that newsclip who was talking about feeling people were being racist towords him knows how dumb/wrong he is. He knows full well that the "hate" twords him and his workers has nothing to do with their nationality really but their profession. He was just using stupid tactics to make people who don't understand the real issues think racism has something to do with the whole gold farming topic. Either that or he is just geniuinly stupid.
ns10	Posted - 2007.05.15 08:20:00 - [29] Well the freighter hit we did the other day (guy lost 16 bill plus freighter plust pod) has gotta hurt. We supsected him to be an isk farmer for months,we used to hunt a lot of them whenthey mined ice. Isk farming creates huge inflation and ruins the game for a lot of people.
The Pest Caldari ISK Farmers	Posted - 2007.05.15 09:14:00 - [30] I'm not an ISK farmer. -----

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