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Temporal Assassin
Gallente
principle of motion
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.05.15 23:50:00 -
[1]
Now before I get flamed to hell and back, hear me out. Drones are probably one of the worse sources of lag. 100 v 100 battles, thats a possible 1000 drones. Sure it would never be that high, but even 500-700 drones, thats a huge strain on system resources. I know no-one would like this idea, but bear with me:
Only dedicated drone ships be allowed to use drones. There is no reason why almost every ship be able to field a fleet of drones, if even light drones. In fact most ships should not be able to use drones all together. How could this happen without nerfing everyone but Gallente (and ships like the Arbitrator)? Simple, just make turrets more affective to replace the DPS lost from drones.
And to all the people with tons of skills in Drones, well just use a drone ship when you wanna take advantage of drones.
Sure its a lose-lose situation, but something must be done about the lag. I am unable to even join 10-20 man gangs because I'll lock up for the first 2 minutes. That is simply unacceptable, especially since my computer can handle games like Oblivion with all settings maxed.
Thoughts? Actually feel free to flame, I could very well be completely wrong, but thought I would share my opinions.
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Cpt Abestos
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.05.15 23:54:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Cpt Abestos on 15/05/2007 23:52:27
no
drones are fine(except for the stupid ai), they are very usefull on all ships that have drone bays to either supplment damage (eg allowing for exp damage to be done by mega, geddon etc.), giving ships some extra ecm, and supporting your gang(eg logistic drones)
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fullmetalpwn
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Posted - 2007.05.15 23:59:00 -
[3]
Just nerf the graphics of drones. They don't need to be super high quality, it's not like anyone is looking at them all the time. Except for Fighters.
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Krulla
Minmatar
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.05.15 23:59:00 -
[4]
Drones are a very minor source of lag in 100 vs 100 battles.. noone bothers with drones in those fights. 
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Sigs are for noobs. |
xHalcyonx
Amarr
EmpiresMod
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Posted - 2007.05.15 23:59:00 -
[5]
Edited by: xHalcyonx on 16/05/2007 00:00:55
Edited by: xHalcyonx on 16/05/2007 00:00:22
Simply put. No. Bad idea.
EVE is all about versatility and the ability to fit nearly anything on any ships, this includes drones.
Another factor that makes this a bad idea is that drones have already incurred one nerf that cut the usable amount of drones from 15 down to 5. Yes, they increased the damage on drones three-fold to relieve strain on the server, it had one detrimental side effect; when you lose a single drone now in comparison to befor the nerf, you lose 3x the firepower where as when you had 15x drones you only lost 1x the firepower.
Your other point is that you have a computer that can handle Olivion with all settings maxed. Not to burst your bubble, but what slows you down the most in EvE is the serverside calculations, not the graphics. The best thing you can do for yourself to decrease the lag is to get a nice 5.1 or 7.1 sound card, or turn off sound alltogether.
With those suggestions my computer with an overclocked 939 pin 3500+ Venice core AMD 64 (single core) processor, 1.5Gb PC3200 RAM, and my eVGA 7600gt KO run a nice 30fps on all low settings in 120 man gangs with lots of drones out, as long as you zoom out a fair but.
Hope this helps you.
EDIT: Spelling. 
EDIT2: Spelling. Spelling.
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Shakira21
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.05.16 00:00:00 -
[6]
The amount of drone a ship can carry has already been cut down on ships like Thorax and other drone boats. i remember when i first started playing and just sending in wave after wave of drones in to kill rats on missions.
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Nomakai Delateriel
Amarr
A Better Future
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Posted - 2007.05.16 00:09:00 -
[7]
Maybe there should be an alternative use for the drone bay, some kind of gear that does not involve launching drones but still has some use (although not as useful as the equivalent drone would be).
______________________________________________
-You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary. |
Emperor D'Hoffryn
No Quarter.
Vae Victis.
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Posted - 2007.05.16 00:12:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: xHalcyonx
Edited by: xHalcyonx on 16/05/2007 00:00:55
Edited by: xHalcyonx on 16/05/2007 00:00:22
Simply put. No. Bad idea.
EVE is all about versatility and the ability to fit nearly anything on any ships, this includes drones.
Another factor that makes this a bad idea is that drones have already incurred one nerf that cut the usable amount of drones from 15 down to 5. Yes, they increased the damage on drones three-fold to relieve strain on the server, it had one detrimental side effect; when you lose a single drone now in comparison to befor the nerf, you lose 3x the firepower where as when you had 15x drones you only lost 1x the firepower.
Your other point is that you have a computer that can handle Olivion with all settings maxed. Not to burst your bubble, but what slows you down the most in EvE is the serverside calculations, not the graphics. The best thing you can do for yourself to decrease the lag is to get a nice 5.1 or 7.1 sound card, or turn off sound alltogether.
With those suggestions my computer with an overclocked 939 pin 3500+ Venice core AMD 64 (single core) processor, 1.5Gb PC3200 RAM, and my eVGA 7600gt KO run a nice 30fps on all low settings in 120 man gangs with lots of drones out, as long as you zoom out a fair but.
Hope this helps you.
EDIT: Spelling.
EDIT2: Spelling. Spelling.
drone hitpoints were also increased 3x (at least on the ships where you get the bonus, the same ships that did 15 drones before) so by the time you lose 1 drone now, you would have lost 3 of the old drones, and during the time where you would have lost 1-2 of the old drones, you are still doing your max damage.
hence, the current system is better, at least for ships with the drone bonus.
in the end, removing so many drone bays will be a balancing nightmare. lets fix things like amarr first please.
Originally by: Snuggly
It's just so great to have an actual reason to not die, incentive is fantastic!
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jilahed
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Posted - 2007.05.16 01:06:00 -
[9]
No more drones on non drone ships? How exactly am i going to protect my battlecruisers against long range fitted ceptors? Hell, i'd only fly my crusader if that happens. Good luck hitting me with your turrets with >3.5km transversal, lol.
How come everyone seems to know what exactly causes lag? And why are all silly proposals repeated at least twice a month?
*sigh*
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Xilimyth Derlin
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Posted - 2007.05.16 01:33:00 -
[10]
< sarcasm >
Solution to lag from drone ships..... Make drones invisible, no rendering, no targeting, but still do their DPS ^^
*grins evilly*
Drones for the win! ^^
< /sarcasm >
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Tacitus Krekt
The Phoenix Rising
Vigilance Infinitas
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Posted - 2007.05.16 01:44:00 -
[11]
Drones are not going to produce much lag in a scenario with no more than 50 pilots engaging one another. The main reason that you may be seeing lag is simply because of gang bonuses being applied to those when they jump into your vicinity. If you're running a few dozen pilots, with a wing commander + squad commanders, jumping in and out of nodes produces lag when each and every persons stats must first be analyzed - and then buffed once they're given their bonus. (do drones get gang bonuses? I doubt it, but do they?)
I've noticed more lag with this than by just drones alone. However, I'm somewhat curious if the two may be tied together if drones do in fact receive gang bonuses.
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Escobar Noreaga
F.R.E.E. Explorer
EVE Animal Control
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Posted - 2007.05.16 02:14:00 -
[12]
without even mentioning the idea of nerfing drones (ill bust the kneecaps of anyone even mentioning the idea) an idea to test this would be to change the graphic of heavy med and light drones to one graphic type lets say mini borg cubes for ****s and giggles.
small cube for all lights with the appropriate name
med cube for said meds
larger cube for said heavies
a test on sisi with a bunch of ppl with current drones by devs and cubes by testers could be done to see if there is any possibility of contribution to lag.
As previously stated, who really looks at drones anyways, so really you could make little wire frames and it wouldent affect anything but the purists.
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Conman
CONMAN Enterprise
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Posted - 2007.05.16 03:16:00 -
[13]
you should call ccp man and work for um i bet they never thought of that man that is real good
I am drunken irish slave hahaha i live
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CherniyVolk
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Posted - 2007.05.16 03:23:00 -
[14]
Originally by: fullmetalpwn
Just nerf the graphics of drones. They don't need to be super high quality, it's not like anyone is looking at them all the time. Except for Fighters.
The graphics might not have much to do with it. The number of polygons your CPU and GPU can process and send to the display in a "real-time" fashion is finite and relatively small.
Not sure how DirectX does it, but there are techniques in OpenGL programming that reduce CPU/GPU load by ONLY crunching the numbers associated to camera view. In other words, the stuff you dont see on the screen, isn't processed. Also, there's reduction in processing depending on depth or range and size.
So, it's very possible, the only thing your computer is crunching is the incremental positions of the drones following along a predicted/predetermined path to include error correction (changing direction). When you zoom in on the drone, then your computer renders it.
Furthermore, is very possible only error correction values are sent across the wire (internet), as each client can inherently compute the drone path.
In my experience, drones are never released in large 0.0 engagements. Usually the only thing you might find are fighters.
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LUH 3471
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Posted - 2007.05.16 03:59:00 -
[15]
Edited by: LUH 3471 on 16/05/2007 03:58:04
no, drones a nerve?!?!stupid ai??!?!? what is ai?!?!? stupid drones ai ??!?! no, noooo !!!21 lies , lies and lies !""
wtf !==!==!==?!?!?
tista is that you =!=!==!=?!??!??!
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Xori Ruscuv
Veto.
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.05.16 06:42:00 -
[16]
Yeah, drones need a nerve.
One connecting their "brains" with their "motor facilities".
Quote:
affective
god... DAMNIT!!!!!111oneone
[orange] |
errorist
Caldari
Free Mercenaries Union
FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.16 08:36:00 -
[17]
No... why do you think there is a 15 page post about drones needing love ? drones are stupid as hell and more a risk to your own fleet than the enemy.
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Gaven Blands
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Posted - 2007.05.16 09:01:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Gaven Blands on 16/05/2007 08:59:51
It must be a 0.0 thing... as drones rule in Empire.
Nos+Drones+ECM is the new daddy.
Myrmi's and Domi's happily flying around doing whatever they like.
You can comfortably fit Ion ECMs knowing that you won't meet anything but gallente. Because Nos+Drones+ECM is the new daddy.
But ECM doesn't help. Because the drones are out and they come anyway?
Get out of 0.0 and your drones become not "a risk to your own fleet" but a siginificant risk to your enemy. Try them in Jita. I bet they work ace there too.
Nerf them?
pfft. Why bother?
They're no bother when you know that the only thing you'll be hit with is Nos + Drones + ECM. And when I say drones, I mean OgreII's. Or HammerII's.
Because fitting Nos + Ogre + Ecm is the current Cookie Darling.
I suspect most user of these don't even know there are differing types of Drones. Read build, build build, win.
"Oh wait, he had thermal double tanked, how did he KNOW I had OgreII's?!"
It's the 10x overpower of a Domi's Nos over a BC or smaller that causes most trouble. Still, that's what the ECM is for.
Oh wait, wrong answer. Don't adapt, scream NERFFFFFFFFFFFFFFz0rz!
Drone lag.
Well, when you kill a drone ship with your own drones, and the wreck pops out 14km away when the guy was right next to you during the fight, and his mate retrieves the stuff... meh, big deal, there's plenty more drone ships out there convinced they are going to win because the forums at www.CookieCutterMindlessBuildsDontThinkJustDoThis.com said so. It won't take long to create another wreck.
Maybe drones need a boost?
Or perhaps just the pilots do....
Eve: Cheats prosper. |
Laboratus
Gallente
BGG
League of Abnormal Gentlemen
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Posted - 2007.05.16 09:49:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Temporal Assassin
Drones are probably one of the worse sources of lag. 100 v 100 battles, thats a possible 1000 drones... ...500-700 drones, thats a huge strain on system resources...
Only dedicated drone ships be allowed to use drones.
In most fights that exceed 20 vs 20 drones lose all meaning. Targets go down a lot faster than drones can fly from target to target, and as such have negilable effect, while laggin the fleet out and making things risky. This is why you always never see drones used in med to large engagements. Fighters yes, but drones, mostly not.
As for limiting the use of drones. Meh. Eve is about a lot variety. Choise. And freedom to be inventive in setups. It just is not a good idea to restrict those possibilities.
Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn
drone hitpoints were also increased 3x (at least on the ships where you get the bonus, the same ships that did 15 drones before) so by the time you lose 1 drone now, you would have lost 1 of the old drones.
hence, the current system is better, at least against ships with the drone bonus.
Fixed that for you.
What takes longest in popping drones, is targeting the bas****s. After that it is just about f1-f8 and pop. Click on new target, and f1-f8. Rince and repeat until done. Since you only have to target 5 targets, instead of 15, poping drones is faster than ever. Since no ship could target 15 drones+ ship before, they had to actually keep on targeting the damn things. Nowdays, you can target em all and pop em quite fast...
Or just use a SB battleship and wipe all drones in just a few volleys.
Quote:
lets fix things like amarr
/signed
___
P.S.
Post with your main.
Mind control and tin hats |
Lt Angus
Caldari
OctoberSnow Corp
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Posted - 2007.05.16 09:52:00 -
[20]
nos domi the new daddy? i thought i was reading a 2003 thread for a second
Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers |
smallgreenblur
Minmatar
Wreckless Abandon
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.05.16 10:19:00 -
[21]
drones are fine. They need better ai is all.
If you are getting killed by droneships that are jammed try
1) warping out
2) killing ze drones first
3) moving faster than ze drones
sgb
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Phionna Var
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Posted - 2007.05.16 10:31:00 -
[22]
I noticed a lot of lag when my drones enter or exit my drone bay.
I used to think it was a graphics issue, however disabling my sound fixes it.
Strange huh? I hadn't noticed that my drones make sound entering or exiting .. but that is definately what the server must think. Lol . . it does suck that I can't play with sound anymore though
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n0thing
Northern Intelligence
Artificial Intelligence.
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Posted - 2007.05.16 10:38:00 -
[23]
To OP,
If you lag in 10-20 man gang theres really something wrong with your connection, network or PC. Lags merely start in 50 man gangs, and to that day I had no lag at all, apart from the time when you scoop/unscoop drones.
---
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Scout XI
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Posted - 2007.05.16 10:52:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Gaven Blands
Edited by: Gaven Blands on 16/05/2007 08:59:51
Nos+Drones+ECM..... quote]
ur about 1 year late....
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errorist
Caldari
Free Mercenaries Union
FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.16 10:53:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Gaven Blands
Edited by: Gaven Blands on 16/05/2007 08:59:51
Get out of 0.0 and your drones become not "a risk to your own fleet" but a siginificant risk to your enemy. Try them in Jita. I bet they work ace there too.
quote]
Lol this humors me alot... drones do not rock in jita... having gall bs 5 and bc 5 hmm that would make me a drones person ?
was flying a myrm in jita ( war with privateers ) getting ecm by a ecm ship losing lock but my drones on a aggroed target, target docks when aggro stops, and my drones auto attack nearest person that has me locked, even if i was not at war with the person ? the still rock in jita, NO!!!
Concord omgwtf pwns me, and ccp say i ordered drones do attack that player even not able to lock anything at all,,nerf ? yeah maeby when they work properly.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
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Posted - 2007.05.16 10:56:00 -
[26]
I'd bet that the vast majority of drones used by the majority of players are light and medium drones for dealing with NPC tacklers in level 4 missions. Making existing turrets/launchers a bit more poweful to compensate for the missing drone DPS would severely restrict a lot of people's fun. As a secondary weapon, drones don't do much damage, but it is well-directed.
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Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant tanking |
Cpt Branko
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Posted - 2007.05.16 11:02:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Phionna Var
I noticed a lot of lag when my drones enter or exit my drone bay.
I used to think it was a graphics issue, however disabling my sound fixes it.
Strange huh? I hadn't noticed that my drones make sound entering or exiting .. but that is definately what the server must think. Lol . . it does suck that I can't play with sound anymore though
What you're saying implies your problem is a client problem, not a server problem at all.
Anyway - to the OP, I'm glad to see a dev here who knows what's causing lag. Oh, wait, you aren't.
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General Coochie
Gallente
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.16 13:03:00 -
[28]
I wonder how any BS would fare against some frigs if they couldnt use drones..
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DarkElf
Veto.
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.05.16 13:30:00 -
[29]
losing drones would make frigs way overpowered i'm afraid and would take something away from combat which is a very bad thing imo.
DE
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Royaldo
KVA Noble Inc.
Sylph Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.16 13:35:00 -
[30]
dear god whats with you? instead of playing the game.. you are complaining here..
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