EVE Search - Cut the Crap - Freighter Ganking

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

Cut the Crap - Freighter Ganking

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
ArtemisEntreri Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.05.18 06:06:00 - [31] On the drone subject, sentries shoot drones, concord does as well. Just the ship first in most cases.
Vana Gank Gallente Kebabtossers	Posted - 2007.05.18 06:07:00 - [32] Edited by: Vana Gank on 18/05/2007 06:08:43 Originally by: ArtemisEntreri On the drone subject, sentries shoot drones, concord does as well. Just the ship first in most cases. Yes. But drones aren't being target-JAMMED. Turret's are. (Drop the "ship"-reference, it's not relevant). Do you see the difference? ;) -------------------------- Please adjust the map, please. Im not clever enough to figure out which way to fly.
Duff Man Caldari Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.05.18 06:48:00 - [33] Originally by: Vana Gank Edited by: Vana Gank on 18/05/2007 06:08:43 Originally by: ArtemisEntreri On the drone subject, sentries shoot drones, concord does as well. Just the ship first in most cases. Yes. But drones aren't being target-JAMMED. Turret's are. (Drop the "ship"-reference, it's not relevant). Do you see the difference? ;) After reading your first few points, I do tend to agree that it seems that this seems to be a pressing issue, as the it seems to be the reason that Domis are "the ship of choice" for this action. I do believe however, that Freighters should not remain the only slotless ship in EvE, although I do digress that this is a side issue compared to Concord's behavior in relation to drones. I will state as fact again, that I do not believe that Freighters should be immune to ganks in high sec. I do however, believe that 14 Domis being able to pop a Freighter in 38 seconds is a demonstration of severe imbalance.
Vana Gank Gallente Kebabtossers	Posted - 2007.05.18 06:57:00 - [34] Originally by: Duff Man I will state as fact again, that I do not believe that Freighters should be immune to ganks in high sec. I do however, believe that 14 Domis being able to pop a Freighter in 38 seconds is a demonstration of severe imbalance. Agree - try to do the same with Turret-based ships. I wonder how many you really need for that. I think that serves as a balancing act. -------------------------- Please adjust the map, please. Im not clever enough to figure out which way to fly.
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2007.05.18 07:10:00 - [35] "-To the Carebears - High sec should be much safer than low sec, but not completely safe. CCP have stated again and again that one of EvE's driving principles is Risk vs Reward. By that argument alone, if there was ZERO risk in High Sec, then there would also be ZERO reward. Which as we all know is not the case. -To the PvPers / Gankers - This Risk vs Reward thingo I mentioned applies to you guys as well. Any one of you who would look me in the eye, and tell me that popping a freighter in high sec using 13 Dominixs that are all T1 fitted, and FULLY INSURED is balanced Risk vs Reward, is either legitimately stupid, or lying. Simple. "So what needs to be done? Oh wise one Duff Man" -Give Freighters slots. The idea that every freighter you set your target bead on always has exactly the same setup (Lackof in this case), goes against the grain of everything else in this game. Consistency fellas... If you want to stop Freighters using cargo expanders, then prevent them using cargo expanders in their low slots... Let me set you straight it seems there is a few things you fail to understand. Empire is NOT 100% safe for carebears, oddly enough it is 100% safe for gankers though, which is part of the problem. Next is the insurance issue will hewlp a little bit but not alot, it just limits the targeta a little more, problem still exists. Lastly adding slots or what ever doesn;t matter as the reward is so high they just use even more ships. I mean you understand there was a time when people said DON"T BE A NOOB AND USE A T1 HAULER USE A FRIEGHTER IF YOU ARE MOVING SOMETHING WORTH BILLIONS! At which time I responded it doesnt matter because it is simply a numbers game and they will jhust use more people to accomplish the same thing. Face the facts the game is broken, the entire concept that you can kill someone if you are willing to have your ship get blown up also is a flawed concept littered with loopholes and exploits. Empire is ment to be safe like it or not that is why concord is so swift and there is no surviving them. There is no good reason what so ever to allow people to attack each other in empire unless it is a corp war or some other mutually compromising scenario ( like jet can thiefs ). Every single angle you look at it circumvents the purpose of concord which was to provide carebears a place to play eve, there is nothing wrong with that concept either so get over it, and grow some balls if you want to pvp there is a place for it. really what is the driving force behind people wanting to kill carebears? Oh ya the driving force is because it posseses ZERO RISK. Grow a pair and play the game like it was ment to be played. Get your weak asses out into low sec and 0.0 where you belong.
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2007.05.18 07:11:00 - [36] Edited by: Nanobotter Mk2 on 18/05/2007 07:09:20
Vana Gank Gallente Kebabtossers	Posted - 2007.05.18 07:14:00 - [37] Edited by: Vana Gank on 18/05/2007 07:13:09 Edited by: Vana Gank on 18/05/2007 07:12:32 Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 Let me set you straight it seems there is a few things you fail to understand. Empire is NOT 100% safe for carebears, oddly enough it is 100% safe for gankers though, which is part of the problem. He seems to have realized that - and acknowledged that ... it's CONCORDE not doing their job properly. Read some of the other posts ... -------------------------- Please adjust the map, please. Im not clever enough to figure out which way to fly.
DarkFenix Caldari Pilots Of Honour	Posted - 2007.05.18 08:22:00 - [38] Edited by: DarkFenix on 18/05/2007 08:20:36 The simple solution: Make Concord frigs go for drones with absolute priority, while the battleships tear everything else apart. Make said frigs hard enough to instalock and instapop drones. This also avoids the inevitable whines from people who genuinely do get accidentally concodokkened (happened to a corpmate just a day or 2 ago)
Vana Gank Gallente Kebabtossers	Posted - 2007.05.18 08:31:00 - [39] Edited by: Vana Gank on 18/05/2007 08:33:28 Originally by: DarkFenix Edited by: DarkFenix on 18/05/2007 08:20:36 The simple solution: Make Concord frigs go for drones with absolute priority, while the battleships tear everything else apart. Make said frigs hard enough to instalock and instapop drones. This also avoids the inevitable whines from people who genuinely do get accidentally concodokkened (happened to a corpmate just a day or 2 ago) Yeah, but still - the CONCORDE jam's Turret based ships. It must also JAM the bloody drones - because they will use some time to take them out. And that make's a whole lot of difference ... EDIT: Uh oh ... I foresee a CPU hog for CCP's servers. Damn, thats gonna be a tough one. 2761 gazillion drones to JAM, then to kill. This is bad ... I predict a whole big nerf to the poor Gallente :( -------------------------- Please adjust the map, please. Im not clever enough to figure out which way to fly.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.05.18 09:47:00 - [40] Well i took my kit out of the mothballs and made this educational video(using something old, something new, somthing certainly borrowed, bit of blue in there i think...anyhoop, enjoy!...or don't...i don't know Clicky Linkage To Video
Bistot Kid The First Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2007.05.18 10:11:00 - [41] Here's my take on freighters and high sec. What do companies to to secure the route of cigarette trucks? High value goods in a single large truck. Do they ... ... inform the police of the route they are taking? ... have so much money they take a "hit" occasionally? ... run their own security escort? ... something else? I don't know the answer, but I reckon this is a case where we could use an RL example and come up with something sensible. ------------------------------------- Hold my calls and sack my cook -------------------------------------
Barbaro55a Caldari Os Lobos Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.18 10:23:00 - [42] Originally by: Sheriff Jones Well i took my kit out of the mothballs and made this educational video(using something old, something new, somthing certainly borrowed, bit of blue in there i think...anyhoop, enjoy!...or don't...i don't know Clicky Linkage To Video It wont work for me, such a shame, back to work i guess. .......................................... We come in peace - My sig and your sig would make cute baby sigs.
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.05.18 10:31:00 - [43] The more I think about this, the more I drift into another viewpoint from that I had originally. Good thing, eh? The way I see it this is turning out to be a MAJOR balance issue. True, it's not balanced to require an initial investment of maybe 1 bil to take out a freighter and it's cargo. Also true, it's not balanced to have multi-billion cargos ferried around empire completely without risk. So, where do we stand? With the changes to Concord that are on SiSi now, it will be practically impossible to gank a freighter in high sec. Not theoretically impossible, but practically. Much like freighter pilots claim it is practically impossible to undertake the safety measures that has been proposed by myself and others. So, we have to chose between two situations where either side suddenly have no practical way of winning? No, there is a third option, one that has been alluded to and stated a few times in these threads. An option that, when you think about it, makes perfect sense. Disallow freighters from high sec. Freighters are capital industrial ships, as has been stated many times by the freighter pilots themselves. No other capital class vessel (with very few exceptions - see Chribba's Veldnaught) is allowed in high sec, so why should freighters? Taking this course of action will keep the freighters in their original role, tending budding 0.0 empires' supply lines. In high sec, trade will continue, but with fleets of highly tanked industrials. In this scenario every one will have to work a bit harder, but in the end everyone wins. Once again, disallow freighters from high sec, and you solve all the balance issues in one stroke. /Ki Remember, kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
Yantazar	Posted - 2007.05.18 10:36:00 - [44] Completely agree with the OP in all he has said. I was planning to buy a freighter, but I have put that idea on hold due to the recent events. If these ideas are implemented by CCP then I shall buy a freighter and accept the modified risks. I am not prepared to risk billions under the present scenario.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.05.18 10:45:00 - [45] Originally by: Yantazar Completely agree with the OP in all he has said. I was planning to buy a freighter, but I have put that idea on hold due to the recent events. If these ideas are implemented by CCP then I shall buy a freighter and accept the modified risks. I am not prepared to risk billions under the present scenario. At least there IS a risk. Soon there wont be one. PvP is becoming more and more consensual with the recent changes to war decs and concord buffs. I dont like it. Soon the worst crime you can commit and get away with in high sec is stealing a bunch of worthless veldspar ore. At least move level 4 missions from high sec. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune
TrulyKosh Solo for UNCLE Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.18 10:50:00 - [46] Originally by: Ki An Freighters are capital industrial ships, as has been stated many times by the freighter pilots themselves. No other capital class vessel (with very few exceptions - see Chribba's Veldnaught) is allowed in high sec, so why should freighters? Taking this course of action will keep the freighters in their original role, tending budding 0.0 empires' supply lines. In high sec, trade will continue, but with fleets of highly tanked industrials. In this scenario every one will have to work a bit harder, but in the end everyone wins. Once again, disallow freighters from high sec, and you solve all the balance issues in one stroke. /Ki 1) Freighters are not capital ships. At least the capital ship skill is not required to fly them. 2) for the "work a bit harder" part: even with a max. pimped Impel it would take you 16 times as much time to move the same amount of cargo. That is more than "a bit" and hardly balanced. I only invest in businesses that even a fool can run. Because some day a fool will. (Warren Buffett)
Cheyenne Shadowborn Caldari Citizens of E.A.R.T.H. E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.05.18 10:54:00 - [47] Mostly signed. Originally by: Duff Man -Insurance for Condokkened ships. If you get blown up breaking the law in high sec space, being popped by the authorities you should not get a nice fat insurance payout for it! No comparisons to RL, none of that crap. I definetly sign this IF CCP gets their act together with the darn agression timer. I lost two ships yesterday due to sentries shooting me when the red countdown was gone for 5+ minutes. So first fix countdowns, then nerf insurance for crimes. -- CCP: PLEASE fix the forum software - thanks.
Yantazar	Posted - 2007.05.18 10:55:00 - [48] Jim M.. I cannot see if the changes that are suggested by the OP are implemented how you can say there will not be any risk... or are you contemplating that CCP go even further. Of course freighters should be able to be destroyed, and the OP's comments would allow that to happen. It just means that there would be a risk/reward balance restored properly.
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.05.18 10:57:00 - [49] Originally by: TrulyKosh 1) Freighters are not capital ships. At least the capital ship skill is not required to fly them. Seems like now that the shoe is on the other foot, it won't fit, eh? I'll give you the quote that was given to me when I argued with another freighter pilot who said "A capital class vessel should have slots". Originally by: Item Database Capital ships, able to transport a world and a half and then some. Originally by: TrulyKosh 2) for the "work a bit harder" part: even with a max. pimped Impel it would take you 16 times as much time to move the same amount of cargo. That is more than "a bit" and hardly balanced. Yes, it's perfectly balanced. You can either get a bunch of people together and do the work in less time, or you can do it yourself but it will take a long time. With freighters in high sec being gankable it was like this: You can do it yourself in a short time, but risk being ganked, or you can get a bunch of people together and do it safely, but it will take longer time. You can't have your cake and eat it. Freighters in high sec if they are gankable. If not, no freighters in high sec. /Ki Remember, kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
Cheyenne Shadowborn Caldari Citizens of E.A.R.T.H. E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.05.18 10:59:00 - [50] Edited by: Cheyenne Shadowborn on 18/05/2007 10:59:30 Originally by: Ki An Freighters are capital industrial ships, as has been stated many times by the freighter pilots themselves. No other capital class vessel (with very few exceptions - see Chribba's Veldnaught) is allowed in high sec, so why should freighters? Actually that makes a lot of sense - just that you can wipe "trader" from the list of professions that way. If freighters are removed, trading will be one of these professions that, in high sec, along with miners, make no sense because they're all second to mission wh^H^W running. Trading will need some buff then, be it the Interbus (no idea on the specifics of that idea but its been mentioned and maybe its some sort of high-sec UPS) or the old NPC market orders or something. -- CCP: PLEASE fix the forum software - thanks.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.05.18 11:01:00 - [51] Originally by: Yantazar Jim M.. I cannot see if the changes that are suggested by the OP are implemented how you can say there will not be any risk... or are you contemplating that CCP go even further. Of course freighters should be able to be destroyed, and the OP's comments would allow that to happen. It just means that there would be a risk/reward balance restored properly. I havent been on SiSi myself, but it sounds like concord have been buffed so much that it will make any attacks virtually impossible. Quoting ki an here: Quote: With the changes to Concord that are on SiSi now, it will be practically impossible to gank a freighter in high sec. Not theoretically impossible, but practically. Much like freighter pilots claim it is practically impossible to undertake the safety measures that has been proposed by myself and others. That sounds awful to me. Maybe bring in 50 ships to bring a freighter down? Then the freighter cargo must have extreme value for it to be worth it. I dont know, it sounds very much like ccp are overdoing this. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.05.18 11:02:00 - [52] Originally by: Cheyenne Shadowborn Actually that makes a lot of sense - just that you can wipe "trader" from the list of professions that way. If freighters are removed, trading will be one of these professions that, in high sec, along with miner and pirate, make no sense because they're all second to mission wh^H^W running. Trading will need some buff then, be it the Interbus (no idea on the specifics of that idea but its been mentioned and maybe its some sort of high-sec UPS) or the old NPC market orders or something. Well, to be fair, trade existed before freighters, so I don't think you need to scream "the sky is falling" over this issue. Granted, things have changed since then, so a trade buff might be in order. However, invulnerable freighters are not an option for balance. /Ki Remember, kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
TrulyKosh Solo for UNCLE Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.18 11:07:00 - [53] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: TrulyKosh 1) Freighters are not capital ships. At least the capital ship skill is not required to fly them. Seems like now that the shoe is on the other foot, it won't fit, eh? I'll give you the quote that was given to me when I argued with another freighter pilot who said "A capital class vessel should have slots". Originally by: Item Database Capital ships, able to transport a world and a half and then some. Originally by: TrulyKosh 2) for the "work a bit harder" part: even with a max. pimped Impel it would take you 16 times as much time to move the same amount of cargo. That is more than "a bit" and hardly balanced. Yes, it's perfectly balanced. You can either get a bunch of people together and do the work in less time, or you can do it yourself but it will take a long time. With freighters in high sec being gankable it was like this: You can do it yourself in a short time, but risk being ganked, or you can get a bunch of people together and do it safely, but it will take longer time. You can't have your cake and eat it. Freighters in high sec if they are gankable. If not, no freighters in high sec. /Ki As it wasn't my shoe in the first place, it would not fit anyway :) I totally agree that freighters should be killable in high sec (and they always have been). But I think killing a freighter in high sec should require a proper setting e.g. a war dec and not be everyone's favourite past time. I only invest in businesses that even a fool can run. Because some day a fool will. (Warren Buffett)
Sean Dillon Caldari Naughty 40	Posted - 2007.05.18 11:08:00 - [54] I think duff man holds a point here. Haulers in empire have the oportunity to protect themselves against single man ganks by using shield extenders/hardeners. And warp to zero. A freighter on the other hand can do nothing zilch against gankers. Even warp to zero wont protect them when they allign on the other end of the gate. He can't put hardeners or any other thing to protect himself. He has massive hull yes, but 0 hull resistance. I think it wouild be a good idea to allow for 3-6 rig slots on a freighter, why 6? its still a 1 bill isk ship. This slots should only allow for resistance/navigation rigs. Ofcourse no cargo optimalization rigs. But no high/med/low slots. Its not a pvp ship and should never be.
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.05.18 11:10:00 - [55] Originally by: TrulyKosh As it wasn't my shoe in the first place, it would not fit anyway :) Well, it's perhaps time we agree on wether they are capitals or not, and if both sides can stop using that argument then? Originally by: TrulyKosh I totally agree that freighters should be killable in high sec (and they always have been). But I think killing a freighter in high sec should require a proper setting e.g. a war dec and not be everyone's favourite past time. Wouldn't it be nice if all freighters where in corps which could be decced then? Since they aren't you're argument is, as they say, moot. /Ki Remember, kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
DragonRiderTao	Posted - 2007.05.18 11:13:00 - [56] What you need is some antigravity. How many dragons can you slay? You cant slay mine.
Dufas Amarr Dark-Rising Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.05.18 11:15:00 - [57] Anyone with 'Duf' in their name Delivers! __________
Tarron Sarek Gallente Cadien Cybernetics	Posted - 2007.05.18 11:27:00 - [58] Great read Duff. I totally agree with everything except one bit: Originally by: Duff Man (..), you need to have the ability to modify that ship, just as you do with EVERY other ship type in EvE. Shuttles? Think of freighters as gigantic freight shuttles. That's basically what they are. For me, having one or two unique ship classes is a nice bit of variety. Since the current balance issues can be fixed without changing freighters, I'd say no change needed. Don't break something to fix something broken. _________________________________ - People are people wherever you go -
000Hunter000 Gallente Magners Marauders	Posted - 2007.05.18 11:33:00 - [59] thumbs up to the OP, just my kinda thought. I'm also getting annoyed by the part where if something is possible, everybody and their mom thinks they need to go out and do it(esp big alliances participating in this.. thats kinda.. sad.. impo), then some people whine it's not fair, some others whine that it's ok, then ccp still nerfs it, and EVERYBODY whines. Anyways i think suicide ganking someone should be possible but should carry a every hi penalty (huge sec hit, no insurance payout something else bad, mebbe an x number of time ban from hi sec or sumthing else) 1 other unpopular idea might be to do something about the ability to stick freighters into npc corps.. pref it should be something that u can stick ur freighterpilot into an npc corp but there should be some nasty drawbacks on doing so (trade tax or something i dunno), so it might be better to stick it into a normal corp with the risk of beeing wardeclared. CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!!
TrulyKosh Solo for UNCLE Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.18 11:37:00 - [60] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: TrulyKosh As it wasn't my shoe in the first place, it would not fit anyway :) Well, it's perhaps time we agree on wether they are capitals or not, and if both sides can stop using that argument then? Originally by: TrulyKosh I totally agree that freighters should be killable in high sec (and they always have been). But I think killing a freighter in high sec should require a proper setting e.g. a war dec and not be everyone's favourite past time. Wouldn't it be nice if all freighters where in corps which could be decced then? Since they aren't you're argument is, as they say, moot. /Ki Let's assume for a minute that they were not. Let's assume that there was a similar restriction to using freighters as there is to certain skills and trial accounts. i.e. no freighters in NPC corps. If that was in place, there would be 100+ new 1-man corps, i guess, so that would not be a solution as i can already hear the complaints "but i cannot war dec 100 corps!" As i said before, i have no problem with freigters being vulnerable. But random ganks are not an element I would miss if they were taken out of the game. The war dec is a legitimate tool to kill everyone and his dog in high sec. The fact that NPC corps cannot be war decced is sad, but i rather have that than random ganks. I am placing some hope on faction warfare in this regard. (Idea: if you have high standings with a caldari NPC corp, would it not be nice to be able to obtain a letter of marque against a gallente NPC corp?) I only invest in businesses that even a fool can run. Because some day a fool will. (Warren Buffett)

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.