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Sephiroth Angell
Sinthoras Industries Imperium Divine.
0
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Posted - 2017.06.19 23:41:44 -
[1] - Quote
Can somebody please explain to me solid econimical reason why the PLEX is growing so much in price?? That becomed really Broken.
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Rain6637
NulzSec
35105
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Posted - 2017.06.20 00:03:01 -
[2] - Quote
back in my day plex was 350 million ISK
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
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Vortexo VonBrenner
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
2951
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Posted - 2017.06.20 00:03:37 -
[3] - Quote
Prices in general tend to rise long-term?
In the Domain region the average PLEX price 6 days ago was 2.71 million. Today it is 2.8 million. May 23 it was 2.73 million. Really I'm not seeing much of a problem.
I should check the Serenity server, see how things are there just to be curious...
EvE security zones in pictures
EvE quick reference pdf
EvE links
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Gastuse r
Utility Ltd. Synergy of Steel
0
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Posted - 2017.06.20 00:04:45 -
[4] - Quote
ghost Training is now a exploid and all the farms must now to be paid for (with the trillion of isk they made :))
yes yes ccp will handle this :D :D :D
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ScanAlt
Imperian Sciences
11
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Posted - 2017.06.20 00:07:01 -
[5] - Quote
My best guess is that there were a lot of folks in the same boat as me. In my case, when the PLEX conversion happened, it also converted all the Aurum I had into the new PLEX. I had never bought any Aurum, but over the years I'd managed to accumulate ~850 new PLEX worth. As I plex my account, this meant I didn't have to buy a plex last month, and I'll only need to buy a third of one this month. Less demand (me and others like me) means lower prices, but those plex earned during the conversion likely dried up already or will shortly and so demand will be back at normal levels soon.
I wouldn't be surprised if there were more market factors tying into it, but I don't keep up with that sort of thing. |
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6692
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Posted - 2017.06.20 00:07:14 -
[6] - Quote
Gee, it might not have anything to do with 60+ trillion ISK entering the economy...an absolutely huge amount of ISK.
Nope, nothing to do with it at all.
More people need to go whine about the nerf to fighters so CCP can let this much ISK continue to flood into the game economy.
Edit: To be clear, I consider PLEX like a luxury good. A luxury good has a high income elasticity, that is as income goes up people tend to buy more of the good, so much more the that a larger portion of their income will go to that good. So, people who are now ISK rich thanks to carrier and super ratting may very well be putting that ISK into PLEX. Either to PLEX their accounts, for use in other services, or just as a long term store of value. After all, the long term trend for the price of PLEX is upwards.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
1255
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Posted - 2017.06.20 00:13:30 -
[7] - Quote
Why would you buy plex in game anyway? Subbing is significantly cheaper. You can earn enough to sub for a month in 30 minutes IRL. It's hard to say that about the ISK it takes to get a plex. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
11432
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Posted - 2017.06.20 00:29:19 -
[8] - Quote
Sephiroth Angell wrote:Can somebody please explain to me solid econimical reason why the PLEX is growing so much in price?? I can't tell you. But if you figure it out, I believe there will be a job waiting for you at CCP.
Mr Epeen
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Rain6637
NulzSec
35106
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Posted - 2017.06.20 00:38:22 -
[9] - Quote
It's because supers weren't nerfed hard enough
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
4053
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Posted - 2017.06.20 00:59:05 -
[10] - Quote
It's actually because the plex market is driven (& has been for years now) by investors & speculators. Not by consumers. Which means that most of the people involved in the plex market want the price to keep going up in order to get a reward on their investment. It's basically a share market in that regards, growing like a bubble, and if it ever bursts a lot of peoples investments crash hard. And some of those people are rich enough to influence the markets of EVE and make sure it never does. |
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Pleasure Hub Node-514
Pleasure Hub Hotline
246
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Posted - 2017.06.20 01:28:38 -
[11] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:It's because supers weren't nerfed hard enough "The beatings must continue until moral improves." -collected saying of Mistress Nerf (from page 69 of Longing for Your Buff)
'One night hauler' The tell all story of a pleasure bot in Jita 4-4
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Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
1700
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Posted - 2017.06.20 01:31:28 -
[12] - Quote
ISK inflation, potentially less people buying PLEX with RL cash and too many with ISK; so I guess a natural supply:demand.
@lunettelulu7
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Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
3455
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Posted - 2017.06.20 01:42:54 -
[13] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:It's actually because the plex market is driven (& has been for years now) by investors & speculators. Not by consumers. Which means that most of the people involved in the plex market want the price to keep going up in order to get a reward on their investment. It's basically a share market in that regards, growing like a bubble, and if it ever bursts a lot of peoples investments crash hard. And some of those people are rich enough to influence the markets of EVE and make sure it never does.
Right, and the surge in ISK created out of thin air by the null sec cartels in supercarriers has had no impact. We can't share links on this forum, but some null sec guy on Crossing Zebras today flatly states he was making 260M / tick, or 780M/ hour, in a Hel.
This unprecedented surge of ISK into the economy had no impact, right? |
Algarion Getz
Aideron Corp
443
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 01:48:21 -
[14] - Quote
Sephiroth Angell wrote:Can somebody please explain to me solid econimical reason why the PLEX is growing so much in price?? That becomed really Broken. There is huge demand for PLEX:
- SP farms (the legal version)
- investments (players hoard PLEX as gold item)
- game time
- vanity items like SKINs and apparel
Supply is limited.
Since the ISK faucets are wide open, prices can only go up and they will continue to go up because there are no major ISK sinks on the horizon. There are also no big wars. For more than half a year, the big alliances are carebearing and hoarding and buy PLEX with the extra ISK as investment. |
Algarion Getz
Aideron Corp
443
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 01:58:09 -
[15] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:It's actually because the plex market is driven (& has been for years now) by investors & speculators. Not by consumers. Which means that most of the people involved in the plex market want the price to keep going up in order to get a reward on their investment. It's basically a share market in that regards, growing like a bubble, and if it ever bursts a lot of peoples investments crash hard. And some of those people are rich enough to influence the markets of EVE and make sure it never does. Right, and the surge in ISK created out of thin air by the null sec cartels in supercarriers has had no impact. We can't share links on this forum, but some null sec guy on Crossing Zebras today flatly states he was making 260M / tick, or 780M/ hour, in a Hel. This unprecedented surge of ISK into the economy had no impact, right? Of course we can share links, for example the "surge in ISK created out of thin air" in graph: http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/May_2017/9a_sinksfaucets.png +60 trillion ISK in May.
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Algarion Getz
Aideron Corp
443
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Posted - 2017.06.20 02:07:25 -
[16] - Quote
Vortexo VonBrenner wrote:Prices in general tend to rise long-term?
In the Domain region the average PLEX price 6 days ago was 2.71 million. Today it is 2.8 million. May 23 it was 2.73 million. Really I'm not seeing much of a problem.
I should check the Serenity server, see how things are there just to be curious...
Well, it depends on your point of view and the timeframe you are looking at. If you are someone who needs to buy PLEX for Omega time, then you will see that the price for 30 days of game time has increased by 50% in just 1 year. (from ~1bill to ~1.5bill). That is a very fast increase. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
4053
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 02:14:47 -
[17] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: Right, and the surge in ISK created out of thin air by the null sec cartels in supercarriers has had no impact. We can't share links on this forum, but some null sec guy on Crossing Zebras today flatly states he was making 260M / tick, or 780M/ hour, in a Hel.
This unprecedented surge of ISK into the economy had no impact, right?
Of course it has had an impact, but the Plex market has not suddenly bubbled in the last 2 months because of Isk. It's been growing like this for far far longer, so you can't point at the supercarrier ratting as the cause of the plex price movement. It's simply made the problem a bit worse. |
Voddick
AFK
96
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 02:48:42 -
[18] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:back in my day plex was 350 million ISK
I was running incursions during this time at 100 mil/hr. I regret not storing my ISK in PLEX every single day. |
Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
1619
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Posted - 2017.06.20 03:03:58 -
[19] - Quote
90 day GTCs for 450mil. Thats 150mil per 30 days and at 1.5bil it means a 10 fold increase in about as many years Id say. So ironically not to bad that it doubles every year.
Funny part was it was 2.784mil or so yesterday. So this is a fast increase.
Neyvn has it right. Its a speculator and investors market that they want to keep going up and CCP has a vested interest in it doing so as well from a business standpoint.
Have you heard anything I've said?
You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
That's right.
Had to end sometime.
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6693
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Posted - 2017.06.20 04:47:37 -
[20] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: Right, and the surge in ISK created out of thin air by the null sec cartels in supercarriers has had no impact. We can't share links on this forum, but some null sec guy on Crossing Zebras today flatly states he was making 260M / tick, or 780M/ hour, in a Hel.
This unprecedented surge of ISK into the economy had no impact, right?
Of course it has had an impact, but the Plex market has not suddenly bubbled in the last 2 months because of Isk. It's been growing like this for far far longer, so you can't point at the supercarrier ratting as the cause of the plex price movement. It's simply made the problem a bit worse.
The thing is only until recently has the growth rate of the ISK supply gone...well nearly vertical. Up until May it was growing at a much more sedate pace. In May the amount of ISK entering the economy was about the same as the ISK that entered the economy in the last six fecking months of 2016.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Lamajagarn McMyra
No Vacancies No Vacancies.
23
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Posted - 2017.06.20 06:41:43 -
[21] - Quote
Plex price has always been rising, hell even when they anounced the fighter changes prices did not move. The increase will continue untill something really drastic happens.
consider this: http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/May_2017/9aaa_top.sinks.faucets.over.time.png
Since prices were increasing slowly already in 2015 when average income was not even half of today. With current income i belive we will see a monthly increase around 5%. Invest all isk in plex the moment it's earned as it's loosing value rapidly. :) |
Mr Mieyli
Hedion University Amarr Empire
668
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 06:45:19 -
[22] - Quote
Plex is now an easier market to get into, and it has a self fulfilling prophecy of only going up in value. More transactions would speed up the rate plex prices rise.
This post brought to you by CCP's alpha forum alt initiative. Playing the eve forums has never come cheaper.
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Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
651
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 06:47:27 -
[23] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:back in my day plex was 350 million ISK
Back when I started plex was about 125 million, inflation. |
April rabbit
Mosquito Squadron The-Culture
31
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 07:05:19 -
[24] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:It's actually because the plex market is driven (& has been for years now) by investors & speculators. Not by consumers. Which means that most of the people involved in the plex market want the price to keep going up in order to get a reward on their investment. It's basically a share market in that regards, growing like a bubble, and if it ever bursts a lot of peoples investments crash hard. And some of those people are rich enough to influence the markets of EVE and make sure it never does. Right, and the surge in ISK created out of thin air by the null sec cartels in supercarriers has had no impact. We can't share links on this forum, but some null sec guy on Crossing Zebras today flatly states he was making 260M / tick, or 780M/ hour, in a Hel. This unprecedented surge of ISK into the economy had no impact, right? 2 days ago PLEX was 2.8, today it is 3 mil pu. Before it PLEX was semi-stable for long time.
I guess supers are the main reason for its grow.... |
Do Little
Virgin Plc Evictus.
1323
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 07:54:36 -
[25] - Quote
PLEX is worth whatever the player buying it is willing to pay. No more, no less. It's value in real world money is controlled by CCP and has been stable as long as I can remember.
The in-game exchange rate with ISK is player controlled and has been going up as people accumulate more ISK and have nothing to spend it on. PLEX is a reasonable place to store in-game wealth since it can always be exchanged for game time.
If CCP dials back the ISK faucets, as they are trying to do, the price should stabilize and a lot of ISK will be turned into refineries this winter which will soak up a bit of the oversupply.
Don't expect the price to drop unless a lot of new players sell PLEX purchased from CCP with real world cash to finance in-game projects. |
Uthgaard
Because Wardec
44
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 07:58:55 -
[26] - Quote
Ghost training and afk ratting. But mostly ghost training. Due to incursion farming and the rise in afk carrier ratting & VNI orbiting, ISK faucets exceed ISK sinks, leading to inflation.
But ghost training was a PLEX based exploit. One PLEX = 19 months of sp gain, which converted the cost of 1 plex into 74.5b profit. (12 month queue ending with a 6 month skill, at the end of the plexed month: 12+6+1 = 19) This led to a boom in PLEX consumption, raising its price steadily as it was diverted from the economy into this EVE version of The Matrix.
While ghost training was active, the more PLEX ghost trainer purchased, the more they could profit, creating an infinite loop that removed any upper limit on PLEX prices. Without a self-perpetuating price spiral, PLEX prices will equal the average monthly disposable income for normal players, varying +/- 1 standard deviation.
It didn't take long until ghost farms were consuming PLEX faster than it was being introduced into the game, driving demand above supply, and prices along with that. The skyrocketing prices drove off most of the players who had to afford PLEX to play. If you compare the two graphs you will see that player population follows the inverse of PLEX price. Left unchecked, they would have eventually smothered the game into extinction.
CCP introduced some PLEX drops with this event. Seeding some back into the economy is a great way to normalize the prices, but too few are dropping for this event to really impact the prices, so it will be a very long time before we see the decline. |
Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
1619
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 08:06:40 -
[27] - Quote
Do Little wrote:PLEX is worth whatever the player buying it is willing to pay. No more, no less. It's value in real world money is controlled by CCP and has been stable as long as I can remember.
The in-game exchange rate with ISK is player controlled and has been going up as people accumulate more ISK and have nothing to spend it on. PLEX is a reasonable place to store in-game wealth since it can always be exchanged for game time.
If CCP dials back the ISK faucets, as they are trying to do, the price should stabilize and a lot of ISK will be turned into refineries this winter which will soak up a bit of the oversupply.
Don't expect the price to drop unless a lot of new players sell PLEX purchased from CCP with real world cash to finance in-game projects. Some will finance refineries and other ventures come winter with PLEX as well as the large isk influx lately. So it might have a small downward pressure on the prices then. But historically winter/spring has been the rise and peak of the yearly cycles for prices.
Have you heard anything I've said?
You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
That's right.
Had to end sometime.
|
Rain6637
NulzSec
35110
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 08:09:32 -
[28] - Quote
Uthgaard wrote:Ghost training and afk ratting. But mostly ghost training. Due to incursion farming and the rise in afk carrier ratting & VNI orbiting, ISK faucets exceed ISK sinks, leading to inflation. But ghost training was a PLEX based exploit. One PLEX = 19 months of sp gain, which converted the cost of 1 plex into 74.5b profit. (12 month queue ending with a 6 month skill, at the end of the plexed month: 12+6+1 = 19) This led to a boom in PLEX consumption, raising its price steadily as it was diverted from the economy into this EVE version of The Matrix. While ghost training was active, the more PLEX ghost trainer purchased, the more they could profit, creating an infinite loop that removed any upper limit on PLEX prices. Without a self-perpetuating price spiral, PLEX prices will equal the average monthly disposable income for normal players, varying +/- 1 standard deviation. It didn't take long until ghost farms were consuming PLEX faster than it was being introduced into the game, driving demand above supply, and prices along with that. The skyrocketing prices drove off most of the players who had to afford PLEX to play. If you compare the two graphs you will see that player population follows the inverse of PLEX price. Left unchecked, they would have eventually smothered the game into extinction. CCP introduced some PLEX drops with this event. Seeding some back into the economy is a great way to normalize the prices, but too few are dropping for this event to really impact the prices, so it will be a very long time before we see the decline. They're dropping PLEX in game now too? That's a new one. Interesting to see the NES item devaluation doesn't miss the gold standard of the game economy. Now I feel less resentful of the SKINs and clothing that see similar devaluation through in-game drops.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
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Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
559
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 08:13:21 -
[29] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: Right, and the surge in ISK created out of thin air by the null sec cartels in supercarriers has had no impact. We can't share links on this forum, but some null sec guy on Crossing Zebras today flatly states he was making 260M / tick, or 780M/ hour, in a Hel.
This unprecedented surge of ISK into the economy had no impact, right?
Of course it has had an impact, but the Plex market has not suddenly bubbled in the last 2 months because of Isk. It's been growing like this for far far longer, so you can't point at the supercarrier ratting as the cause of the plex price movement. It's simply made the problem a bit worse. You can point to power creep in general and the players learning how to farm ever faster.
And features which have made this possible, like the supercarriers.
A signature :o
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Uthgaard
Because Wardec
44
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Posted - 2017.06.20 08:46:19 -
[30] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:They're dropping PLEX in game now too? That's a new one. Interesting to see the NES item devaluation doesn't miss the gold standard of the game economy. Now I feel less resentful of the SKINs and clothing that see similar devaluation through in-game drops.
They're not very common, they're dropping 1-2 at a time when they do drop. And since you need 500 to redeem, I wouldn't be surprised if the entire event contributes less than 50 total months of game time by its end. |
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Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale
1605
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 09:46:51 -
[31] - Quote
Sonya Corvinus wrote:Why would you buy plex in game anyway? Subbing is significantly cheaper. You can earn enough to sub for a month in 30 minutes IRL. It's hard to say that about the ISK it takes to get a plex. That's highly dependent on where on lives.
When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
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Navik Askiras
Escuadra Salamandra
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 10:55:06 -
[32] - Quote
Hey there,
CCP need to do something with PLEX price... like put a FIXED price or something... new players can not face 50M/day more expensive. I mean if this continue in 1/2 month the PLEX will cost easly 7M per unit. A lot of people play EVE because they can pay the subscription game with money game = PLEX, I personally started to play EVE for that, I bought 500 PLEX's last two days ago for the first time to upgrade to Omega, but if this continue in a few month I will leave the game, like others in my position.. I'm not Trillionary like others veterans players... If CCP do not think with new players position... they will not receive new players.
Best regards, Navik |
Joan Maetsuycker
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 11:45:06 -
[33] - Quote
Why should CCP help you a new player that want to Plex his account for a free ride and not want to invest in a subscription, there is alpha for you to play for free |
Sephiroth Angell
Sinthoras Industries Imperium Divine.
3
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 11:46:07 -
[34] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:back in my day plex was 350 million ISK
ye... those were good days.. :) |
Sephiroth Angell
Sinthoras Industries Imperium Divine.
3
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 11:49:49 -
[35] - Quote
Joan Maetsuycker wrote:Why should CCP help you a new player that want to Plex his account for a free ride and not want to invest in a subscription, there is alpha for you to play for free
First, im not a new player.. Im playing several years.. and by buyin plex from market.. im not cutting CCP-¦s earns.. somebody must have buy that plex from them.. So its not theyr bussines if i buy from them or market.. they are not loosing anything.. And few years ago.. i remember ccp was regulating the prices.. now they are not and players owning market are trying what ppl are willing to pay.. :) And im not crying or whatever about that.. I just wanted to know some relevant reason.. and i found out that there is not.. :)
So im going to sub for year from cca cause for me,,, im telling "ENOUGH" ill not pay those suckers such price.. and maybe its only my opinion,, everybody should stop buying plex for such prices.. cause they will keep raising the prices.. :) |
Sephiroth Angell
Sinthoras Industries Imperium Divine.
3
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 11:53:15 -
[36] - Quote
Sonya Corvinus wrote:Why would you buy plex in game anyway? Subbing is significantly cheaper. You can earn enough to sub for a month in 30 minutes IRL. It's hard to say that about the ISK it takes to get a plex.
Cause i was always proud that i can make that ISk for plex on my own.. :)
But now i still can.. but im not willing to pay such price.... :) thats the point..
Cause this game is hard to master.. And make enough money every month can be considered as your personal succes.. :)
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saltrock0000
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
148
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 11:53:16 -
[37] - Quote
I remember the days of was it 60 or 90days gtc's being sold for 350mil.
In general as time goes on, and less people are either playing or the general population of the game is able to make more money to fund plex with in game money the prices will rise, until it eventually hits a pinnacle where people are unable to purchase it anymore, unsubscribe and leave the game. At this point game developers will step in with either plex sales or behind the scenes market manipulation (via say CARRIER NERFS- I couldnt resist)
\'''\<(o_O)>/'''/
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Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
35422
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 11:59:22 -
[38] - Quote
I bought really big amount yesterday, I didnt know it would be so noticable on market. =ƒÿ¦
ߦçߦáߦç-Ç-ŠߦÿߦÇ-Çߦ¢ ߦÅ-ô ß¦Ç +óߦÇߦìߦç -£ß¦ç-ƒß¦ÿs ߦ¢ß¦Å ߦ¢ß¦ç-ƒ-ƒ ß¦Ç sߦ¢ß¦Å-Ç-Å =ƒôò
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GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
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Elenahina
Agony Unleashed The Bastard Cartel
1739
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 12:01:15 -
[39] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:back in my day plex was 350 million ISK
LOL, I see what you did there
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
Also, iderno
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Elenahina
Agony Unleashed The Bastard Cartel
1739
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 12:03:17 -
[40] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote: To be clear, I consider PLEX like a luxury good. A luxury good has a high income elasticity, that is as income goes up people tend to buy more of the good, so much more the that a larger portion of their income will go to that good. So, people who are now ISK rich thanks to carrier and super ratting may very well be putting that ISK into PLEX. Either to PLEX their accounts, for use in other services, or just as a long term store of value. After all, the long term trend for the price of PLEX is upwards.
That's actually a pretty good summation. +1 Internets to you sir.
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
Also, iderno
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DiDDleR
Skunkdogz Corporation
30
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Posted - 2017.06.20 12:14:26 -
[41] - Quote
CCP should have stuck to their plans with the Carrier nerf - too many cry baby Carrier pilots threatened to unsub but they probably were PLEXing their accounts anyway... |
Navik Askiras
Escuadra Salamandra
3
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 12:22:28 -
[42] - Quote
Joan Maetsuycker wrote:Why should CCP help you a new player that want to Plex his account for a free ride and not want to invest in a subscription, there is alpha for you to play for free
The objective of play EVE is being Omega... Alpha is good, but not really fun, because you are super limited. As explained Sephiroth Angell somebody must have buy that PLEX from CCP to sell on the Market to the player that will use it. So... Where is your point? |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16179
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 12:32:12 -
[43] - Quote
Uthgaard wrote:Ghost training and afk ratting. But mostly ghost training. Due to incursion farming and the rise in afk carrier ratting & VNI orbiting, ISK faucets exceed ISK sinks, leading to inflation.
Sometimes there is a mistake so blantant in someone's post they accidentally reveal that they don't actually know what they are talking about. This is a case in point. You can't "afk" a carrier and haven't been able to since the introduction of Fighter Squadrons.
"AFKing" Drones ships (mostly vni's and ishtars) is bad, but only on the principle of "you should have to be at your keyboard to earn isk via combat PVE". When you could afk carriers and people were afking ishtars all over the place the money supply was fine.
FIGHTER SQUADRONs from carriers and supers are indeed the problem (before fighter squadrons, economy is fine, after fighter squadrons, disaster) and CCP chickened out on fixing that problem. But it helps to actually know something about the activity and methods people use BEFORE posting. |
Francis Raven
ExDominion Evictus.
107
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 12:33:07 -
[44] - Quote
Would it not partly have to do with all the cosmetics converting from an AURUM cost to a nuPLEX cost? People who now want skins, clothing, etc... need Plex in order to purchase them. This in turn increases demand for it. I haven't looked at the volume changes as of late, but I bet you that is playing a role in this.
ExDominion | Nullsec Corporation | Website | Forums | Established Nov. 2015 |
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16179
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 12:35:08 -
[45] - Quote
DiDDleR wrote:CCP should have stuck to their plans with the Carrier nerf - too many cry baby Carrier pilots threatened to unsub but they probably were PLEXing their accounts anyway... '
There wasn't enough people using carriers and supers for ratting to raise that much of a fuss. The fuss came from people's aversion to the idea that a PVE situation could cause a ship to be changed in a way to makes it lose a lot of utility in PVP.
I'm very much in favor of fighter squadrons being nerfed into the ground and honestly don't care about the loss of PVP power, but it's important to know the real reason why people feel the way they do rather than pretending it's about something else.
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Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
3535
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 13:16:55 -
[46] - Quote
While I do think the current high price is largely due to the ISK faucets being set on 'torrential' in recent months, there is also the worrisome fact that the sell volume has been incredibly low for the last week or so. The PLEX cupboard is bare and such a seller's market means prices are going to rise.
Whether this lack of PLEX on the market is due to less being sold (normal cyclical decreasing activity, people quitting over recent scandals) or just a run by speculators on the inventory we cannot tell from the data. The price of PLEX will be whatever the market decides so an increase in price isn't necessarily a bad thing, but if the rising price is due to lack of PLEX being bought from CCP and listed, that is a worrisome turn of events.
Far too many people rely on people selling them PLEX to fund their game time and that of their alts. If the 'weekend warriors' lose interest in the game, or PLEX climbs to the point they need to buy much less of them to fund their fun, many industrialists will find themselves unable to support their game play. Effectively no one will be willing to pay their game time for them to play the game in exchange for the fruits of their grinding/building and many accounts will start to go dark.
PLEX may be a luxury, but many players completely rely on that luxury to play the game as they do now. We can tell them to HTFU, lose their alts, or get out their credit card, but there will be severe and lasting consequences to the game if PLEX rises too high too fast. The only practical solution though I see is to increase interest in the game so people want to play the game (and buy PLEX to list on the market), something which seems difficult for CCP to manage.
Ah well, whatever happens it will be an interesting test case of how a virtual economy reacts to such shocks. Personally, I think there will be a tipping point where the complete market will unravel spectacularly, but it could just be a slow, and constant decent into stagnation as more and more players are squeezed out of the RMT market and leave or scale back what they do in the game.
The 8 Golden Rules of Eve
Why Do They Gank?
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Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
3458
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 13:18:27 -
[47] - Quote
DiDDleR wrote:CCP should have stuck to their plans with the Carrier nerf - too many cry baby Carrier pilots threatened to unsub but they probably were PLEXing their accounts anyway...
You have to remember what group is most organized, and motivated to maintain this new null-sec faucet . There are many RL examples where a tiny minority can dictate public policy via lobbying and contacts. Also look who controls the CSM. The majority of the player base, the casual player, (still true, though CCP's policies over the last few years have certainly changed the ratio) are currently completely unrepresented by any voice in the Eve community. Further, CCP has demonstrated over the years that any voice from the casual player base is at best, ignored, at worst, censored or banned.
So CCP implemented a nerf to a gifted ISK faucet, and that nerf, as you said, is not nearly enough. Supercarrier players will now go from 260M ticks, to maybe 180 M ticks. Big deal.
Plex prices are up 29% in the past 3 months. They are up 23% in the past 2 months. And those numbers are irrelevant to CCP.
CCP loves the laissez faire, libertarian economy, and they really don't care what wealth redistribution is occurring ingame. And this is really what this is. Low sec, wh, and high sec ISK generation potential is flat, which has resulted in null sec's insatiable need for all of the economic pie continues to grow. And CCP is A-OK with this, for now.
CCP had record profits last year, due to a number of factors. One of those factors was the ability to monetize each account for a larger increase than the decrease in the subscription rate. Perhaps that trend will continue. I personally doubt it, as there is only so much blood in a stone. But I am sure CCP has other ideas on how to increase their income per player.
So bottom line, plexes can hit 4 million, or 5 million, and CCP will only pay lip service to "fixing" this. They won't get serious until they get tangible proof that their corporate income is being hurt by in-game Plex prices. And that may be months before they figure that out.
BTW, I converted virtually all my free cash into Plexes quite a few months ago, and think I have 16 or 18 left. So I plan on taking CCP to task over that time frame, or until other factors outside my control stop me. I am betting on those outside factors. |
Matthias Ancaladron
Wrath of Angels Solitaire.
367
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 13:25:44 -
[48] - Quote
Plex needs a market cap of 2m.
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
11437
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 13:27:27 -
[49] - Quote
PLEX is not a luxury. It can't be. Any more than ISK is a luxury.
PLEX is a medium of exchange. More a symbol than an item. Like ISK is not an item. You see it in your wallet but you can do nothing tangible with it.
You can't fit PLEX to your ship. Or research them in a lab run. Or mine them out of rocks. They are not an item so can't be a luxury. Just another way to write ISK.
Mr Epeen |
Matthias Ancaladron
Wrath of Angels Solitaire.
367
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 13:27:50 -
[50] - Quote
Francis Raven wrote:Would it not partly have to do with all the cosmetics converting from an AURUM cost to a nuPLEX cost? People who now want skins, clothing, etc... need Plex in order to purchase them. This in turn increases demand for it. I haven't looked at the volume changes as of late, but I bet you that is playing a role in this.
Almost no one buys stuff off the store. Whether it cost aurum or plex doesn't matter. |
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Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
35424
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 13:33:38 -
[51] - Quote
Post how much PLEX you have.
14500
ߦçߦáߦç-Ç-ŠߦÿߦÇ-Çߦ¢ ߦÅ-ô ß¦Ç +óߦÇߦìߦç -£ß¦ç-ƒß¦ÿs ߦ¢ß¦Å ߦ¢ß¦ç-ƒ-ƒ ß¦Ç sߦ¢ß¦Å-Ç-Å =ƒôò
ߦí-£ß¦ç-Çߦç +¬s ߦÇ+¦+ó-Ç-ŠߦäߦÅ+¦ß¦äߦÅ-Çߦà +óߦ£-Šߦí-£ß¦ç+¦ -ÅߦÅߦ£ +¦ß¦çߦçߦà -£+¬ß¦ì
ߦÅsߦÿ-Çߦç-Å =ƒÜÇ
GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
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Keno Skir
1687
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 13:40:43 -
[52] - Quote
Navik Askiras wrote:Joan Maetsuycker wrote:Why should CCP help you a new player that want to Plex his account for a free ride and not want to invest in a subscription, there is alpha for you to play for free The objective of play EVE is being Omega... Alpha is good, but not really fun, because you are super limited. As explained Sephiroth Angell somebody must have buy that PLEX from CCP to sell on the Market to the player that will use it. So... Where is your point?
He doesn't have a point, you are correct. In fact since a PLEX cost more (in real money from CCP) than a months subscription costs, CCP are actually financially better off if people pay their sub with ISK rather than cash.
The more you know..
Black Lanterns Blog <- Read my ramblings -.-
250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <---
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Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
3535
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 13:52:37 -
[53] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:PLEX is not a luxury. It can't be. Any more than ISK is a luxury. PLEX is a medium of exchange. More a symbol than an item. Like ISK is not an item. You see it in your wallet but you can do nothing tangible with it. You can't fit PLEX to your ship. Or research them in a lab run. Or mine them out of rocks. They are not an item so can't be a luxury. Just another way to write ISK. Mr Epeen At least with oldPLEX, it was a luxury, at least the ability to purchase them from the market to pay for your game time. It was not needed for any in-game activity. It was purely used to mediate RMT between two players and you could play EVE without even knowing they existed and not have it impact on your game play. ISK is not a luxury as you could not play the game if you didn't know ISK existed.
Also, from the other side, you do not need to engage in RMT to play the game and buy power or resources from other players. That is also a luxury, one CCP added as a best solution to a problem rather than as a true feature to the the game.
Now though that PLEX is used to purchase other goods and services, perhaps you are more right. nuPLEX can be used for many more things than just to mediate the exchange of virtual assets for real-world cash of other players (or vice versa), including the storage of wealth or as a currency used to buy some items from CCP. It's still pretty optional from the core game, but there is much more utility than when GTC trading was sanctioned or when PLEX was first introduced.
The 8 Golden Rules of Eve
Why Do They Gank?
|
Wanda Fayne
658
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 14:04:57 -
[54] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Post how much PLEX you have.
14500
0
"your comments just confirms this whole idea is totally pathetic" -Lan Wang-
- -
"hub humping station gamey neutral logi warspam wankery" -Ralph King-Griffin-
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Navik Askiras
Escuadra Salamandra
4
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 14:09:42 -
[55] - Quote
I tried to explain a possible solution to control PLEX pirce market: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=522666 |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16180
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 14:18:25 -
[56] - Quote
The definition of "luxury" as it pertains to plex is "something adding to pleasure or comfort but not absolutely necessary ". EVE Online in it's entirety is a luxury.
I'm glad prices are going up even though I'm a plex consumer not a seller. Because plex has been the cause of so much stupidity in EVE.
On the one hand you have the guys who pay EVE casually but started plexing because it was so cheap. So they would play EVE (usually PVPing and having a blast without a care in the world) all month and when they get the game time notification they would go and 'grind out a plex', turning one weekend a month into a 'space job'. The inevitable rise in the cost of plex makes their 'space job' harder, thus to the forums/reddit they go to complain instead of adjusting how they do things in game to make things easier on them (like setting aside a few minutes a few times a week over the course of a month to do things that make isk be it ratting or mining or setting up PI or some light market trading etc).
At the other end of the spectrum is the "unsustainable plex'd empire magnate" with 20+ accounts for whom even slight variations in plex prices causes them fits. It even occurs to people like that that having their enjoyment of the game become dependent on having $300 (U.S.) per month worth of EVE accounts they can't pay cash for if plex prices rise was a drastically stupid mistake to begin with.
Cheap plex made casual EVE players into addicts when plex for game time should have been only the province of time-rich dedicated players (that would then be exchanged with time-poor but cash rich players). Everytime we see one of these plex price anxiety posts, it's just a junkie going through withdrawls. |
Coralas
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
168
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 14:32:40 -
[57] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:DiDDleR wrote:CCP should have stuck to their plans with the Carrier nerf - too many cry baby Carrier pilots threatened to unsub but they probably were PLEXing their accounts anyway... You have to remember what group is most organized, and motivated to maintain this new null-sec faucet . There are many RL examples where a tiny minority can dictate public policy via lobbying and contacts. Also look who controls the CSM. The majority of the player base, the casual player, (still true, though CCP's policies over the last few years have certainly changed the ratio) are currently completely unrepresented by any voice in the Eve community. Further, CCP has demonstrated over the years that any voice from the casual player base is at best, ignored, at worst, censored or banned. So CCP implemented a nerf to a gifted ISK faucet, and that nerf, as you said, is not nearly enough. Supercarrier players will now go from 260M ticks, to maybe 180 M ticks. Big deal.
You don't get 260m ticks all the time. Also we can't blame players for the addition of capital rats, which are intended to be killed by capitals and have capital scale bounties. We didn't do that, CCP did.
Quote:
Plex prices are up 29% in the past 3 months. They are up 23% in the past 2 months. And those numbers are irrelevant to CCP.
CCP loves the laissez faire, libertarian economy, and they really don't care what wealth redistribution is occurring ingame. And this is really what this is. Low sec, wh, and high sec ISK generation potential is flat, which has resulted in null sec's insatiable need for all of the economic pie continues to grow. And CCP is A-OK with this, for now.
Those numbers are relevant to CCP.
CCP has a problem with plex, in that if the value of plex goes too high, people start to need to only buy the equivalent of 1 old plex or less with real cash. ie the demand curve for plex is more complex than a classic S curve because the utility alters with ingame price.
Quote:
CCP had record profits last year, due to a number of factors. One of those factors was the ability to monetize each account for a larger increase than the decrease in the subscription rate. Perhaps that trend will continue. I personally doubt it, as there is only so much blood in a stone. But I am sure CCP has other ideas on how to increase their income per player.
They'll do all the things they always do, wait for eu winter when they get more value (more alphas and more subs) for campaigns, and then run a campaign.
Quote:
So bottom line, plexes can hit 4 million, or 5 million, and CCP will only pay lip service to "fixing" this. They won't get serious until they get tangible proof that their corporate income is being hurt by in-game Plex prices. And that may be months before they figure that out.
BTW, I converted virtually all my free cash into Plexes quite a few months ago, and think I have 16 or 18 left. So I plan on taking CCP to task over that time frame, or until other factors outside my control stop me. I am betting on those outside factors.
No they won't, they will be aware of when the upper bounds for plex hurts them, and they'll work to keep it in the healthy range that maximizes their income. Our only issue is we don't know what it is.
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Rain6637
NulzSec
35115
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 14:50:45 -
[58] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Post how much PLEX you have.
14500 consolidated the loose change across accounts then right-click sold in jita
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
11439
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 15:11:00 -
[59] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Post how much PLEX you have.
14500 I just sold all mine. Since I'm not particularly greedy and not much into speculation, I was fine with selling the PLEX I bought at 2.5 for 3. I made a decent profit on them.
Mr Epeen
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Joan Maetsuycker
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 15:21:48 -
[60] - Quote
My point is as new player with subscription I find it good that Plex become expensive and that lesser people can Plex their account.
People that pay real money for Plex should benefit the most from it with and get much isk for their plex, while people wanting to play free and plex their account should have not it easy to plex like some did for years.
I think it will be healthy with plex going up around 2 billion for 500 plex will be good it would create a situation that players will make a mix of sub and buying plex
example let say a player pays now for a whole year with 6000 plex omega but with prices going up it will be 70/30 or 60/40 plex/sub
that is good for the game
Navik Askiras wrote:Joan Maetsuycker wrote:Why should CCP help you a new player that want to Plex his account for a free ride and not want to invest in a subscription, there is alpha for you to play for free The objective of play EVE is being Omega... Alpha is good, but not really fun, because you are super limited. As explained Sephiroth Angell somebody must have buy that PLEX from CCP to sell on the Market to the player that will use it. So... Where is your point? |
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Uthgaard
Because Wardec
49
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 15:29:52 -
[61] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Uthgaard wrote:Ghost training and afk ratting. But mostly ghost training. Due to incursion farming and the rise in afk carrier ratting & VNI orbiting, ISK faucets exceed ISK sinks, leading to inflation. When you could afk carriers and people were afking ishtars all over the place the money supply was fine.
That's why it helps to read an entire post and not sperg out before you finish the third sentence. I barely gave the bounties a a passing mention, yet somehow that's what you managed to get hung up on.
Reddit is right. These forums are cancer. |
Uthgaard
Because Wardec
49
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 15:35:26 -
[62] - Quote
I'll say it again for everyone who missed it.
PLEX is overpriced right now because ghost training sucked it all out of the economy, since it was effectively an ISK copying machine.
If you don't understand how, it's back on page 2.
Cue sperglord army nitpicking tiny details because they just spent 2 pages trying to sound deep and philosophical. |
Rain6637
NulzSec
35116
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 15:35:49 -
[63] - Quote
D-Did some someone say sp s sp
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
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Scialt
Universal Sanitation Corporation
164
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 15:40:21 -
[64] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:It's actually because the plex market is driven (& has been for years now) by investors & speculators. Not by consumers. Which means that most of the people involved in the plex market want the price to keep going up in order to get a reward on their investment. It's basically a share market in that regards, growing like a bubble, and if it ever bursts a lot of peoples investments crash hard. And some of those people are rich enough to influence the markets of EVE and make sure it never does.
Those "rich enought o influence the markets of EVE" aren't going to make sure the plex market never crashes. Those are the people who may eventually force a crash.
If you have that much power, what the best course of action would be is to cash out (possibly forcing a crash in doing so), then buy plex back up at lower prices.
A slowly increasing plex price isn't really good for the investor class... big swings in prices give them much more opportunity to profit. |
Vash Bloodstone
Chiaotzu's Revenge
40
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 15:58:42 -
[65] - Quote
The price of anything is determined by thousands of different decisions likely made by thousands of different people. The price is the summation of all these different decisions. Anybody who says they know exactly why it's this price or that price is a liar. Some factors may contribute more than others, but at the same time, there are likely many factors unknown and can't be known.
Also, price controls are never the answer, they will likely only lead to shortages, surpluses and more black markets. (real-world trading.) |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16183
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 16:11:47 -
[66] - Quote
Uthgaard wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Uthgaard wrote:Ghost training and afk ratting. But mostly ghost training. Due to incursion farming and the rise in afk carrier ratting & VNI orbiting, ISK faucets exceed ISK sinks, leading to inflation. When you could afk carriers and people were afking ishtars all over the place the money supply was fine. That's why it helps to read an entire post and not sperg out before you finish the third sentence. I barely gave the bounties a a passing mention, yet somehow that's what you managed to get hung up on. Reddit is right. These forums are cancer.
The point is that in order to form an opinion you need to demonstrate that you know what you are talking about. By typing the words "afk carrier ratting" you disproved your own beleifs, because the economy and money supply were fine when afk carrier ratting was possible. Carrier ratting now is an active activity.
I make no claims about the rest of your post, I'm pointing out your self defeating flaw so you won't make it again (those hurt the discussion for those of us who recognize the actual imbalances that need fixing).
TL;DR don't blame me for your screw up or demonstrated lack of knowledge, get it right the 1st time.
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16183
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 16:20:36 -
[67] - Quote
Vash Bloodstone wrote:The price of anything is determined by thousands of different decisions likely made by thousands of different people. The price is the summation of all these different decisions. Anybody who says they know exactly why it's this price or that price is a liar. Some factors may contribute more than others, but at the same time, there are likely many factors unknown and can't be known.
Also, price controls are never the answer, they will likely only lead to shortages, surpluses and more black markets. (real-world trading.)
This is something CCP seems to understand that others don't. the original purpose of plex was to short circuit the isk sellers, and it largely did. But trying to fix the price could inadvertently open up more opportunities for isk sellers, leading to even worse distortions in the overall economy as those isk sellers find sneaky ways to move and launder and bot isk.
I don't have a problem with the plex prices going up. I'm not a rabid anti-multiboxer (I multibox 2 or 3 accounts at a time myself), but i figure it's good for the game overall to see the 'multi-box empires' (like the dude wiith the 50 ice miners that high sec ice miners love to come here and complain about) start to diminish some.
People already know that it's dumb to fly something they can't afford to lose, in the future I hope people learn not to plex more than they can sub.
This is a rule I follow, the max I can justify paying for EVE is 60 bucks a month, so I keep myself to a max of 4 accounts active and thus don't have to have an anxiety attack every time the plex prices change...
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Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
3216
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 16:59:47 -
[68] - Quote
Probably also worth noting there is a decent sale on MCT, and MCT costs less than 500 plex normally. Plenty of jobs where it's a waste to have a character on its own account. and I've mainly been too cheap/lazy to set up a bunch of those, but when I saw the MCT sale I went for it.
@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
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Keno Skir
1692
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 18:28:39 -
[69] - Quote
Uthgaard wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Uthgaard wrote:Ghost training and afk ratting. But mostly ghost training. Due to incursion farming and the rise in afk carrier ratting & VNI orbiting, ISK faucets exceed ISK sinks, leading to inflation. When you could afk carriers and people were afking ishtars all over the place the money supply was fine. That's why it helps to read an entire post and not sperg out before you finish the third sentence. I barely gave the bounties a a passing mention, yet somehow that's what you managed to get hung up on. Reddit is right. These forums are cancer.
It's just that you can't really AFK a carrier, so you're talking rubbish. I'd say the same thing on Reddit.
These forums are right, your posting is cancer.
Black Lanterns Blog <- Read my ramblings -.-
250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <---
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6707
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 18:32:19 -
[70] - Quote
Voddick wrote:Rain6637 wrote:back in my day plex was 350 million ISK I was running incursions during this time at 100 mil/hr. I regret not storing my ISK in PLEX every single day.
Emphasis added.
Gee, why oh why could PLEX prices be going up. Add on CCP making more things accessible via PLEX and everyone is surprised by the upward trend?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
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Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
3217
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 18:59:39 -
[71] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Voddick wrote:Rain6637 wrote:back in my day plex was 350 million ISK I was running incursions during this time at 100 mil/hr. I regret not storing my ISK in PLEX every single day. Emphasis added. Gee, why oh why could PLEX prices be going up. Add on CCP making more things accessible via PLEX and everyone is surprised by the upward trend? I mean these days 100m/hr isn't even that fancy
@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6707
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 20:24:55 -
[72] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Vash Bloodstone wrote:The price of anything is determined by thousands of different decisions likely made by thousands of different people. The price is the summation of all these different decisions. Anybody who says they know exactly why it's this price or that price is a liar. Some factors may contribute more than others, but at the same time, there are likely many factors unknown and can't be known.
Also, price controls are never the answer, they will likely only lead to shortages, surpluses and more black markets. (real-world trading.) This is something CCP seems to understand that others don't. the original purpose of plex was to short circuit the isk sellers, and it largely did. But trying to fix the price could inadvertently open up more opportunities for isk sellers, leading to even worse distortions in the overall economy as those isk sellers find sneaky ways to move and launder and bot isk. I don't have a problem with the plex prices going up. I'm not a rabid anti-multiboxer (I multibox 2 or 3 accounts at a time myself), but i figure it's good for the game overall to see the 'multi-box empires' (like the dude wiith the 50 ice miners that high sec ice miners love to come here and complain about) start to diminish some. People already know that it's dumb to fly something they can't afford to lose, in the future I hope people learn not to plex more than they can sub. This is a rule I follow, the max I can justify paying for EVE is 60 bucks a month, so I keep myself to a max of 4 accounts active and thus don't have to have an anxiety attack every time the plex prices change...
What Vash is describing is not unlike what the Austrian school of economic thought holds when it comes to the market process. That the decisions being made by a large number of individuals is how the price emerges. People like to look for a single reason or even a small number of reasons as for why they are observing something. However, that is rarely the case. Why does each person who buys one or more PLEX buy that PLEX? Why do people sell them? Yes on that last one one argument is ISK, but why. What is the reason for wanting ISK. Different reasons will lead to different behaviors. If I have a big PLEX stock and I need some ISK vs. selling PLEX as part of market speculation.
Further, the order that results from that process is defined by the process of its emergence, IMO. That is, the order one observes after the fact cannot be defined ex ante. This renders the idea of discretionary economic policy rather problematic.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
1256
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 22:12:19 -
[73] - Quote
Linus Gorp wrote:Sonya Corvinus wrote:Why would you buy plex in game anyway? Subbing is significantly cheaper. You can earn enough to sub for a month in 30 minutes IRL. It's hard to say that about the ISK it takes to get a plex. That's highly dependent on where on lives.
If you live somewhere where you're not earning enough to afford $10/mo, you should be working to improve your life and not playing video games in the first place. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
11446
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 22:26:05 -
[74] - Quote
Sonya Corvinus wrote:Linus Gorp wrote:Sonya Corvinus wrote:Why would you buy plex in game anyway? Subbing is significantly cheaper. You can earn enough to sub for a month in 30 minutes IRL. It's hard to say that about the ISK it takes to get a plex. That's highly dependent on where on lives. If you live somewhere where you're not earning enough to afford $10/mo, you should be working to improve your life and not playing video games in the first place. You really are a one trick pony.
Mr Epeen
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Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
1257
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 22:56:03 -
[75] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Sonya Corvinus wrote:Linus Gorp wrote:Sonya Corvinus wrote:Why would you buy plex in game anyway? Subbing is significantly cheaper. You can earn enough to sub for a month in 30 minutes IRL. It's hard to say that about the ISK it takes to get a plex. That's highly dependent on where on lives. If you live somewhere where you're not earning enough to afford $10/mo, you should be working to improve your life and not playing video games in the first place. You really are a one trick pony. Mr Epeen
The person who created a character to do nothing but troll the forums for years and years calling someone a one trick pony. Oh the irony... |
Al Nomadi
Morawins
34
|
Posted - 2017.06.21 08:43:50 -
[76] - Quote
Sonya Corvinus wrote:Linus Gorp wrote:Sonya Corvinus wrote:Why would you buy plex in game anyway? Subbing is significantly cheaper. You can earn enough to sub for a month in 30 minutes IRL. It's hard to say that about the ISK it takes to get a plex. That's highly dependent on where on lives. If you live somewhere where you're not earning enough to afford $10/mo, you should be working to improve your life and not playing video games in the first place.
Its not always the problem with money itself... Though poor ukrainians (and other eastern folks) do tend to rather PLEX their accounts, than to pay a subscription. For players like me it is more a social problem. I have money and love this game. I payed sub first few months before I built up my economy. But my wife hates it. She really does. If she finds out, that I put a single euro from family budget on it, I will have bigger problem in RL. Cause I do love my wife more than the game and I hate to see her really upset.
It question of balance and the getting fun via making ISK. I understand, that repetitive circling null anomalies or high sec rocks, rediculous 0.01 isking in station trading or similar number vs numbers activity is deadly boring, but I getting ISK in different ways and I get fun in the process. So I get enough ISK to PLEX my accounts and create content outside the station, regradless if it is FW PvP, exploration or high sec PvE of different kind. |
Dotaros Kolar
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2017.06.21 08:45:53 -
[77] - Quote
CCP should reroll an obviously wrong decision and activate a price cut for 30 days playtime via plex at lets say 750 million.....
EVERYONE has to have to opportunity to buy 30 days via plex in a "normal"(let's say 14 days period.....
3 billion is simply ridiculous. |
Marek Kanenald
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
20
|
Posted - 2017.06.21 09:48:46 -
[78] - Quote
Dotaros Kolar wrote:CCP should reroll an obviously wrong decision and activate a price cut for 30 days playtime via plex at lets say 750 million.....
EVERYONE has to have to opportunity to buy 30 days via plex in a "normal"(let's say 14 days) period.....
Around 1.5 billion is simply ridiculous.
Why is it ridiculous? I made enough money to plex my acount for a year after 6 months on an alpha account. |
Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
322
|
Posted - 2017.06.21 09:51:10 -
[79] - Quote
Marek Kanenald wrote:Why is it ridiculous? Because CCP thinks machariels for 320mil is also ridiculous so they increased prices, they should do the same for PLEX.
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Munted Happenstance
Panamanian Tax Evaders
6
|
Posted - 2017.06.21 09:51:36 -
[80] - Quote
I think one reason is just simply some guy shoving in a bunch of buy orders for small amounts of plex and hoping that they don't get filled before someone else adjusts their buy order to be more than his.
In other words, semi fake buy orders just to raise the minimum price, and with a market as active as plex he can be pretty confident someone else will "overcut" him.
Of course you could just abuse the "margin trading" skill to have no risk of your order actually being completed as well, but with the fracturing of plex into smaller units you can raise the minimum price this way with a much smaller amount of isk on the table than before the change.
I mean look at the existing buy orders its pretty clear a bunch of them are created for that reason, why would a bunch of different people need exactly 112 units of plex.
Suggestion: stop 'overcutting' these buy orders if you are actually setting buy orders yourself and just let them sell out for awhile, unless of course you profit by the higher prices, in which case, keep doing what your doing peeps. |
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DiDDleR
Skunkdogz Corporation
34
|
Posted - 2017.06.21 10:18:36 -
[81] - Quote
Marek Kanenald wrote:Dotaros Kolar wrote:CCP should reroll an obviously wrong decision and activate a price cut for 30 days playtime via plex at lets say 750 million.....
EVERYONE has to have to opportunity to buy 30 days via plex in a "normal"(let's say 14 days) period.....
Around 1.5 billion is simply ridiculous. Why is it ridiculous? I made enough money to plex my acount for a year after 6 months on an alpha account.
You made around 18 billion ISK with an Alpha account in 6 x months? Incredible what were you doing? Ghost Training?
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Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
560
|
Posted - 2017.06.21 10:43:41 -
[82] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:PLEX is not a luxury. It can't be. Any more than ISK is a luxury. PLEX is a medium of exchange. More a symbol than an item. Like ISK is not an item. You see it in your wallet but you can do nothing tangible with it. You can't fit PLEX to your ship. Or research them in a lab run. Or mine them out of rocks. They are not an item so can't be a luxury. Just another way to write ISK. Mr Epeen At least with oldPLEX, it was a luxury, at least the ability to purchase them from the market to pay for your game time. It was not needed for any in-game activity. It was purely used to mediate RMT between two players and you could play EVE without even knowing they existed and not have it impact on your game play. ISK is not a luxury as you could not play the game if you didn't know ISK existed. Also, from the other side, you do not need to engage in RMT to play the game and buy power or resources from other players. That is also a luxury, one CCP added as a best solution to a problem rather than as a true feature to the the game. Now though that PLEX is used to purchase other goods and services, perhaps you are more right. nuPLEX can be used for many more things than just to mediate the exchange of virtual assets for real-world cash of other players (or vice versa), including the storage of wealth or as a currency used to buy some items from CCP. It's still pretty optional from the core game, but there is much more utility than when GTC trading was sanctioned or when PLEX was first introduced. That stopped being true when injectors dropped. If you want to do "serious" farming, guess what you need to get the flavor of the year with a lot of alts before it gets nerfed?
Yep.
Those things enabled the capship proliferation we've seen these past few months. Without them, the Rorqal and carrier spam would have taken a lot longer to materialize.
A signature :o
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Marek Kanenald
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
20
|
Posted - 2017.06.21 14:55:44 -
[83] - Quote
DiDDleR wrote:Marek Kanenald wrote:Dotaros Kolar wrote:CCP should reroll an obviously wrong decision and activate a price cut for 30 days playtime via plex at lets say 750 million.....
EVERYONE has to have to opportunity to buy 30 days via plex in a "normal"(let's say 14 days) period.....
Around 1.5 billion is simply ridiculous. Why is it ridiculous? I made enough money to plex my acount for a year after 6 months on an alpha account. You made around 18 billion ISK with an Alpha account in 6 x months? Incredible what were you doing? Ghost Training?
Buy low, sell high. |
Keno Skir
1694
|
Posted - 2017.06.21 15:23:07 -
[84] - Quote
DiDDleR wrote:Marek Kanenald wrote:Dotaros Kolar wrote:CCP should reroll an obviously wrong decision and activate a price cut for 30 days playtime via plex at lets say 750 million.....
EVERYONE has to have to opportunity to buy 30 days via plex in a "normal"(let's say 14 days) period.....
Around 1.5 billion is simply ridiculous. Why is it ridiculous? I made enough money to plex my acount for a year after 6 months on an alpha account. You made around 18 billion ISK with an Alpha account in 6 x months? Incredible what were you doing? Ghost Training?
It's not that hard just boring, just do a bit of basic station trading.
Black Lanterns Blog <- Read my ramblings -.-
250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <---
|
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6708
|
Posted - 2017.06.21 21:00:23 -
[85] - Quote
Dotaros Kolar wrote:CCP should reroll an obviously wrong decision and activate a price cut for 30 days playtime via plex at lets say 750 million.....
EVERYONE has to have to opportunity to buy 30 days via plex in a "normal"(let's say 14 days) period.....
Around 1.5 billion is simply ridiculous.
Yes, because having no PLEX is so much better than having a high priced PLEX.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6708
|
Posted - 2017.06.21 21:01:49 -
[86] - Quote
Munted Happenstance wrote:I think one reason is just simply some guy shoving in a bunch of buy orders for small amounts of plex and hoping that they don't get filled before someone else adjusts their buy order to be more than his.
In other words, semi fake buy orders just to raise the minimum price, and with a market as active as plex he can be pretty confident someone else will "overcut" him.
Of course you could just abuse the "margin trading" skill to have no risk of your order actually being completed as well, but with the fracturing of plex into smaller units you can raise the minimum price this way with a much smaller amount of isk on the table than before the change.
I mean look at the existing buy orders its pretty clear a bunch of them are created for that reason, why would a bunch of different people need exactly 112 units of plex.
Suggestion: stop 'overcutting' these buy orders if you are actually setting buy orders yourself and just let them sell out for awhile, unless of course you profit by the higher prices, in which case, keep doing what your doing peeps.
I love how these market gurus never put their ISK where there mouth is.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Earnest Emu
Row Row Fight the Power Test Alliance Please Ignore
7
|
Posted - 2017.06.21 21:06:19 -
[87] - Quote
Farming isk has been far too easy for some. CCP profits are down. Manipulating plex prices to get people to buy it with $$$ is a sound business principle.
|
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6708
|
Posted - 2017.06.21 21:18:44 -
[88] - Quote
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:Black Pedro wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:PLEX is not a luxury. It can't be. Any more than ISK is a luxury. PLEX is a medium of exchange. More a symbol than an item. Like ISK is not an item. You see it in your wallet but you can do nothing tangible with it. You can't fit PLEX to your ship. Or research them in a lab run. Or mine them out of rocks. They are not an item so can't be a luxury. Just another way to write ISK. Mr Epeen At least with oldPLEX, it was a luxury, at least the ability to purchase them from the market to pay for your game time. It was not needed for any in-game activity. It was purely used to mediate RMT between two players and you could play EVE without even knowing they existed and not have it impact on your game play. ISK is not a luxury as you could not play the game if you didn't know ISK existed. Also, from the other side, you do not need to engage in RMT to play the game and buy power or resources from other players. That is also a luxury, one CCP added as a best solution to a problem rather than as a true feature to the the game. Now though that PLEX is used to purchase other goods and services, perhaps you are more right. nuPLEX can be used for many more things than just to mediate the exchange of virtual assets for real-world cash of other players (or vice versa), including the storage of wealth or as a currency used to buy some items from CCP. It's still pretty optional from the core game, but there is much more utility than when GTC trading was sanctioned or when PLEX was first introduced. That stopped being true when injectors dropped. If you want to do "serious" farming, guess what you need to get the flavor of the year with a lot of alts before it gets nerfed? Yep. Those things enabled the capship proliferation we've seen these past few months. Without them, the Rorqal and carrier spam would have taken a lot longer to materialize.
In other words, the problem is not injectors, but certain ships.....gee...who was saying that? Never mind.
PLEX are still luxury goods. The fact that they have more uses now, does not change this and may in fact enhance. After all, are skins a necessity? No. Are other spiffy things from the New Eden Store necessities? Nope.
The thing is with luxury goods as a person's income goes up a larger portion of their income is allocated to the luxury good(s).
Injectors are not really the issue other than being a bete noire for many.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Dotaros Kolar
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2017.06.21 21:31:16 -
[89] - Quote
A market that can be abused by few ,this abuse conflicts with the interests of the majority.....
It NEEDS to be controlled by the owner.....
This fact is so simple that i don't get how someone can have another opinion.... |
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