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DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2004.01.08 00:58:00 -
[31]
I haven't seen talon before this forum post.. and I've participated in a good few skirmishes ever since m0o came.. 
But thats not the point.
Discussion is about this bill, and frankly it makes me sick.
The ONLY reason my corporation came down here is because CFS claimed to be a peaceful alliance that did not interfere in the actions of other corporations or alliances in the area, so long as they agreed not to pirate or restrict space travel. Well uhm I'm a pirate-hunter, and if any CFS guy tries to scramble me and ask for money, that is piracy in my book. It won't be pretty if someone tries to take shots at me :/
This is the kind of stuff that shatters alliances, and it began with the deployables bill. I'm told that if I don't wanna join CFS and "keep space free" then I have no right to use it as my permanent home even though I may be helping to keep said space free. I find that ridiculous since I've seen more non-CFS people out there keeping CFS guys safe and yet they haven't earned the right to build stations.. Now you're saying, not only can't I make this a permanent home for me and my corporation, you're saying we have to PAY to go about our lawful activities, else our space travel will be restricted?
How on earth did this even get past the "conceptual ideas" phase?
I'm not trying to be negative, but this idea/bill is so disillusioned it's going to go to the doctor for some prescription pills any minute now
Take FA for example, they toll people to hunt there. Difference? They are a region-claiming alliance, and they have the force to back up their claim. People pay 1mil a day to hunt there, and at least they get to feel safe from pirate activity. Why on earth would anyone pay the CFS toll money to access a proclaimed "free" region, which is rampant with pirates atm, and not even get proper protection in return?
If I'm correct, this bill actually conflicts with a recent one that says "anyone caught paying tolls to gain access to 'closed' space is immediateley KOS by the CFS" .. does this mean if we pay you, you put us on KOS, and if we don't, you put us on KOS?
omg, there is like so many ways to bash this idea its not even funny..
how about CFS learns from its mistakes, gets its member corporations into gear and actually fights m0o?
I'm gonna just stop right here on this subject, you have and will(?) get millions of isk from me in generous support for a good cause, but you won't get 0.01 isk (gotta love the market changes) to enter your space, good day! 
_____________________________________
Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
"Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf |
Negotiator
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Posted - 2004.01.08 01:02:00 -
[32]
CFS still has several ways out - one is to pay us weekly (and we all know that they will pay until they feel they can protect their space again, and we will come and bash all the silly ideas out of them) or they can publicly announce their defeat...
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Talon SilverHawk
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Posted - 2004.01.08 01:04:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Talon SilverHawk on 08/01/2004 01:15:54
Funny Digital I seen you in the FIX a few times.
Tal
What goes around comes around...
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Ends
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Posted - 2004.01.08 01:08:00 -
[34]
I really should say here that I can't imagine charging people like digital communist a toll to enter our space. I don't think that is the way its going to work lol. We have a lot of people who have been helping out and there is no way I can see charging them to enter. We'll work it out, it'll be fair.
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2004.01.08 01:17:00 -
[35]
 Quote:
I really should say here that I can't imagine charging people like digital communist a toll to enter our space. I don't think that is the way its going to work lol. We have a lot of people who have been helping out and there is no way I can see charging them to enter. We'll work it out, it'll be fair.
ROFLMAO
NICE start Ends... publically admit exceptions to rules based on nepotism or favouritism with Senators.
Oh yeah - now thats SURE going to instill confidence.
Do you really not see how much this entire bill is hurting your cause?
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DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2004.01.08 01:19:00 -
[36]
Quote:
I really should say here that I can't imagine charging people like digital communist a toll to enter our space. I don't think that is the way its going to work lol. We have a lot of people who have been helping out and there is no way I can see charging them to enter. We'll work it out, it'll be fair.
Ty for the gesture, but charging anyone is still piracy, you know.. the thing m0o is trying to do to CFS right now? charge money? extort isk?
If anyone was intent on paying in the first place, they'd pay m0o because they're obviously more on top of things.. why give isk to the losing side?
Face it, no one is getting paid! Not m0o, not CFS, not your grandmother..
Only two courses of action is admit defeat or push them out of your territory. Anything else is 'alliance suicide'.
_____________________________________
Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
"Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf |
Fargas
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Posted - 2004.01.08 01:34:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Fargas on 08/01/2004 01:39:18
Quote:
Edited by: Talon SilverHawk on 08/01/2004 00:45:28
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
never seen you fight...are you one of those that are hiding behind the navy?
Have before will again.
Tal
A
Erm - you're currently, and have been for the last 10 days or so, been running agent missions in Empire space.
One of our corpies is based out of the same station you operate your megathron from.... isnt it ironic that the CFSN is fighting in frigates and you're doing missions in a Megathron?
Erm yeah so you stalkin me. Yeah isnt ironic that members of the EF "Partners" to the CFS are doing missions in the same station in a Tempest instead of down fighting MOO. 10 days right and before that ? Your talkin out your ass Morkt as usual.
Tal
Let me in on the deal we have that EF "Partners" ie all corporations of EF, should fight CFS wars? I surely do missed that deal with the CFS. We stood up and fought with CFS and CFSN in the beginning. That's when we racked up corpses of the CoW/m0o invasion. Then all of a sudden you just didn't show up and we did surely not wanna lose ships in your war so we withdrew as well.
Now you're trying to blame us for not standing put to your cause? Gimme a break please. And I didn't see you either down those days I were fighting CoW/m0o. Not forgetting the fact that I was in charge of CFSN when either your leading CFSN staff or Yodaron was unable to lead them. Ain't it ironic that you give fleet command to a pilot that's not even MEMBER of the CFS? Still you putting blame on us not fighting?
If we're gonna discuss this issue, I have several nice chatlogs to drag information from what you in CFS did and didn't wanted to do. I have information from your boards, roughly the same info m0o has, and that shows another view. Are we gonna pull all that into this discussion or will you just concede and state that you didn't had the guts to fight m0o?
I honor all those few pilots standing up against m0o over and over again. They are the heroes in this fight.
The above is reason enough for me to run missions in order to acquire Tech2 for the corp and federation I'm a member of.
(Edit: And this is my personal view. Not anyone elses.)
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Lord Zap
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Posted - 2004.01.08 01:41:00 -
[38]
CFS you should publicly admit you have lost this war, or you should pay us isk to the tune of 2 billion. And we will leave..
Any comments from Yodaron would be appreciated
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2004.01.08 01:42:00 -
[39]
Quote:
Erm yeah so you stalkin me. Yeah isnt ironic that members of the EF "Partners" to the CFS are doing missions in the same station in a Tempest instead of down fighting MOO. 10 days right and before that ? Your talkin out your ass Morkt as usual.
Hey Talon, - dont try to deflect your own sense of shame and guilt onto others. You know fully well that you ignored your presidents call for help and abandoned your alliance to go profiteer off agent running, safe in your battleship inside empire space.
DOnt try to asuage your own sense of guilt and betrayal by castigating other corporations or allainces that arent the ones who claim doinance over hundreds of star system to the exclusion of all others.
How does that saying go..
ah yes
"what goes around, comes around".
Oh how sweet that sounds... 
Morsus mihi.
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2004.01.08 01:45:00 -
[40]
Quote:
CFS you should publicly admit you have lost this war, or you should pay us isk to the tune of 2 billion. And we will leave..
Any comments from Yodaron would be appreciated
Dont push the pouint Zap.
The Bill itslef is open admission that they have lost - that they are now also trying to have EVE Guardian remove the story under claims it was "obtained illegally" just compounds the CFS issues.
Not only do they abandon "Free Space" this today but it seems "Free Speech" has gone also.
How about the CFS show us all some proof of all this "illegal hacking" .. or are they just blowing smoke.. odd how far such a righteous group have fallen in such a short time.
Yodaron - get a grip of your people please.
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Lord Zap
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Posted - 2004.01.08 01:52:00 -
[41]
I just want to hear some words from Yodaron. When I first proposed they pay us to leave he said he'd pay me 1 isk and we'd be pushed out of JK-FIX/Querious soon enough. oh how I want him to eat those words...
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2004.01.08 02:07:00 -
[42]
Quote:
I just want to hear some words from Yodaron. When I first proposed they pay us to leave he said he'd pay me 1 isk and we'd be pushed out of JK-FIX/Querious soon enough. oh how I want him to eat those words...
I doubt he is even up too speed on the issues yet Zap, most of them are on t'other side of the Pond and with the chaotic nature of the CFS (and thier infamously bad communications) the leaking of that bill may not even be known by him yet.
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Lord Zap
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Posted - 2004.01.08 02:12:00 -
[43]
Well it will be a nice suprise when he logs on
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The Reverend
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Posted - 2004.01.08 02:56:00 -
[44]
LOL - just waiting for the surrender to m0o to be put into the right words.
m0ovie links |
Negotiator
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Posted - 2004.01.08 03:21:00 -
[45]
Well, to be honest, Yodaron is a bad president for not making the right calls. I would have handled things differently if i were him, and i could deal with this situation without such publicity...Sorry Yoda, you might be a good businesman/worker in RL, but ur realy bad at this whole presidency thing
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Gravedancer
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Posted - 2004.01.08 03:35:00 -
[46]
This is a truly sad day. I had hoped that the CFS was beyond the petty space-grabbing greediness that so many of the other regional alliances succumbed to. Apparently this was not meant to be. It is especially sad because MUC members have spilled blood along side members of the CFS Navy, because we believed in their desire to keep space free for all. Considering the ammount of requests I've received for MUC to join the CFS, our help must have meant something at least at some point. From the moment this "bill" comes to pass, any help for the CFS from Mining Unlimited will cease, be it financially or militarily. Furthermore, Mining Unlimited Corp has assets in the area, and a vested interest in those assets that we will defend if necessary. Mining Unlimited remains commited to peaceful commerce, so we will of course be open to discussions with any member corps of the CFS about a non agression pact.
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DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2004.01.08 03:36:00 -
[47]
Quote:
Well, to be honest, Yodaron is a bad president for not making the right calls. I would have handled things differently if i were him, and i could deal with this situation without such publicity...Sorry Yoda, you might be a good businesman/worker in RL, but ur realy bad at this whole presidency thing
I disagree,
he would have been a "bad president" had he proclaimed defeat right off the bat and decided to pay m0o 1bil isk.. so many people would be at his throat for that.. and not to mention no one would give him said 1bil isk 
he also would have been a "bad president" if he proclaimed defeat and gave up hope
he also would be a "bad president" if he just ditched everyone in the middle of a crisis
he also would be a "bad president" if he pretended like there isn't anything going on, or proclaiming victory all over the forums
but alas he did none of those things, he clearly admits the CFS is in trouble, and he is still willing to fight for a way out that doesn't involve paying off m0o
that's about as good as it can get in his position.. a lot of people aren't happy about the whole CFS thing, so they look to the man that's supposedly in charge of the whole bit and place the blame on his shoulders for their inequities..
sucks to be a figure head imo
_____________________________________
Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
"Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf |
Gravedancer
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Posted - 2004.01.08 03:40:00 -
[48]
Quote:
The ONLY reason my corporation came down here is because CFS claimed to be a peaceful alliance that did not interfere in the actions of other corporations or alliances in the area, so long as they agreed not to pirate or restrict space travel. Well uhm I'm a pirate-hunter, and if any CFS guy tries to scramble me and ask for money, that is piracy in my book. It won't be pretty if someone tries to take shots at me :/
This is the kind of stuff that shatters alliances, and it began with the deployables bill. I'm told that if I don't wanna join CFS and "keep space free" then I have no right to use it as my permanent home even though I may be helping to keep said space free. I find that ridiculous since I've seen more non-CFS people out there keeping CFS guys safe and yet they haven't earned the right to build stations.. Now you're saying, not only can't I make this a permanent home for me and my corporation, you're saying we have to PAY to go about our lawful activities, else our space travel will be restricted?
Couldnt have said it better myself...in fact MUC members are some of those non-CFS types that have been there "helping to keep space free". That will soon be ending though apparently.
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DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2004.01.08 03:45:00 -
[49]
Very true, I've seen a few MUC get involved, nice guys. Free space isn't an ideology that only CFS believe in.
_____________________________________
Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
"Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf |
Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2004.01.08 04:17:00 -
[50]
They could and should have approached the entire affair differently.
Their inherent prolbem, which this bill clearly will never begin to deal with though, is that their current membership either does not exist or does not care to protect what it claims.
Yet it is those self-same non-participating corporation members who are voting on the future bills.
This bill completley ignores the members who have deliberately avoided battling for what their alliance claims and shucks the responsibility for funding a self-sufficient Navy onto third-party corporations and freelancers who can never have a stake in the area.
It is blindingly obvious to all those outside the CFS why the shirkers will vote to charge others what they themselves cannot be bothered to either fund or participate in.
Look at a list of combat participants of a regular basis against m0o, then look at who has been resident at empire space and is now likely to vote to support this Bill.
That says everything that needs to be said about these people:
They want it all (still) but they want if for "no effort" and "no obligation". CFS claim one of the largest areas of space in the galaxy and whilst that entire area was "free" access they had a leg to stand on.
Now that it is now CFS pure territorial ownership with so many restrictions and toll access... well, excuse me but..
just who the hell do the CFS think they are to claim such a huge region for themselves? because one thing is for certain - they cannot defend it against m0o and they will have to defend it against many many other corproations if they think such a small political entity is going to hold say over hundreds and hundreds of star systems.
Aint going to happen - CFS either protect that area "in trust" for oepn access or they stand upa nd fight for it on their own bat...
which, as we have seen clearly, they cannot do.
The end result?
"There is no such thing as CFS Space anymore."
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Stavros
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Posted - 2004.01.08 04:43:00 -
[51]
Well said morky!
--
"Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You" |
Ezra
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Posted - 2004.01.08 04:54:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Ezra on 08/01/2004 04:56:56
Edited by: Ezra on 08/01/2004 04:55:39
Very well said.
Don't claim what you can't protect.
And honestly, post-Castor there isn't much in CFS worth claiming control of. The nearest systems to Gehi with good ore are 15-25 jumps away MINIMUM. I don't see anyone filling the void left by CFS' imminent implosion.
------------
Ezra Cornell
pe0n, Xanadu Corporation |
DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2004.01.08 05:12:00 -
[53]
Quote:
This bill completley ignores the members who have deliberately avoided battling for what their alliance claims and shucks the responsibility for funding a self-sufficient Navy onto third-party corporations and freelancers who can never have a stake in the area.
Damn that put it quite nicely.
_____________________________________
Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
"Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf |
Alexandra Belani
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Posted - 2004.01.08 06:52:00 -
[54]
Is it a possibility that this was a completely fabricated article? Can anyone from CFS Confirm or deny that they are indeed closing their borders?
Like this sig? Check out my sig shoppe..
Zen Jakkaru - "Alexandra Belani (Most sexy terr |
Stavros
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Posted - 2004.01.08 07:14:00 -
[55]
I can verify its authenticity (if thats how u spell it lols)
--
"Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You" |
Alexandra Belani
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Posted - 2004.01.08 07:30:00 -
[56]
Quote:
I can verify its authenticity (if thats how u spell it lols)
hehe yep thats correct. I would still like to hear it from their mouths :)
Like this sig? Check out my sig shoppe..
Zen Jakkaru - "Alexandra Belani (Most sexy terr |
Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2004.01.08 07:41:00 -
[57]
Quote:
Is it a possibility that this was a completely fabricated article? Can anyone from CFS Confirm or deny that they are indeed closing their borders?
The article information is correct. I was sent an exact copy of the information by a CFS Senator entirely seperately to however EG got it.
You should note that the Bill empowers the CFS to do a lot of things, whether or not they do them, r even pass the bill, is another matter.
having the power to close the borders and impose tolls at whim is not the same as doing so - judging by Ends' posts however it is clearly his desire to do so as soon as possible and thus start funding the rebuilding of the CFSN from external revenues.
- - -
The mere fact that soembody from CFS has openly claimed the information was "hacked" and "obtained illegally" also proves the veracity of the suppplied information.
The part quoting the Senate proposition is thus entirely accurate and already verified... the remainder is merely opinion of the Senator who supplied EG with the informationa nd opinion of the EG reporter (the later of which clearly displays both ends of the story).
Im not sure exactly what else you need/want in terms of "proof" that the story and information is accurate.
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2004.01.08 08:25:00 -
[58]
Give m0o the pound of pride they want + interest.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Gib Goblin
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Posted - 2004.01.08 08:44:00 -
[59]
Wait until Castor gets fixed and people can mine in 0.0 space with some chance of survival.
Then maybe the cost of ships might drop enough to allow the CFS to rebuild its fleet.
-- Vice Admiral - Military Command --
-- --- --- ---- ----- ------ I don't 'do' dead. ------ ----- ---- --- --- -- |
Talon SilverHawk
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Posted - 2004.01.08 09:05:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Talon SilverHawk on 08/01/2004 09:06:55
Quote:
Edited by: Fargas on 08/01/2004 01:39:18
Quote:
Edited by: Talon SilverHawk on 08/01/2004 00:45:28
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
never seen you fight...are you one of those that are hiding behind the navy?
Have before will again.
Tal
A
Erm - you're currently, and have been for the last 10 days or so, been running agent missions in Empire space.
One of our corpies is based out of the same station you operate your megathron from.... isnt it ironic that the CFSN is fighting in frigates and you're doing missions in a Megathron?
Erm yeah so you stalkin me. Yeah isnt ironic that members of the EF "Partners" to the CFS are doing missions in the same station in a Tempest instead of down fighting MOO. 10 days right and before that ? Your talkin out your ass Morkt as usual.
Tal
Let me in on the deal we have that EF "Partners" ie all corporations of EF, should fight CFS wars? I surely do missed that deal with the CFS. We stood up and fought with CFS and CFSN in the beginning. That's when we racked up corpses of the CoW/m0o invasion. Then all of a sudden you just didn't show up and we did surely not wanna lose ships in your war so we withdrew as well.
Now you're trying to blame us for not standing put to your cause? Gimme a break please. And I didn't see you either down those days I were fighting CoW/m0o. Not forgetting the fact that I was in charge of CFSN when either your leading CFSN staff or Yodaron was unable to lead them. Ain't it ironic that you give fleet command to a pilot that's not even MEMBER of the CFS? Still you putting blame on us not fighting?
If we're gonna discuss this issue, I have several nice chatlogs to drag information from what you in CFS did and didn't wanted to do. I have information from your boards, roughly the same info m0o has, and that shows another view. Are we gonna pull all that into this discussion or will you just concede and state that you didn't had the guts to fight m0o?
I honor all those few pilots standing up against m0o over and over again. They are the heroes in this fight.
The above is reason enough for me to run missions in order to acquire Tech2 for the corp and federation I'm a member of.
(Edit: And this is my personal view. Not anyone elses.)
Well Fargas. I did not make any claims I just answered a piece of BS from Spin master Morkt.
I will explain myself this once then will not answer any more of these bs posts. Actions will speak louder than words and we shall see.
I have spent more than my time down in the FIX but like anyone else I need to get my INS, skills and modules they ain't free. My corp has possibly 6 active members now 4 that are regular of which 2 of us regularly help in the FIX. So I say my corp has and will continue to do its bit in the fight, Whether that be donations or combat. I pulled out of the FIX soon after Castor was released as making the cash they way I was wasn't viable and my wallet was empty. I will return in the next day or 2 That you have my word on. Will you be there to help.
As for EF some of you are great some of you ain't. Shame that those that have pulled out can't see something through. I almost get the feeling that some in the EF want the CFS to go down so they can rush in and back up your earlier presidential claims.
My own personal opinion.
Tal
What goes around comes around...
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