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Silinary
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Posted - 2004.01.08 22:12:00 -
[91]
Talon and Raindrop. The problems brought forth are true. You guys continue to deny what is said as true. I don't understand it. With multiple senators denying and yet confirming at the same time you are running yourselves into circles. Always denyability eh?
I've seen this going on and its disturbed me greatly. I thought the members of the CFS were indeed more honorable then this. Perhaps more control should be put in for membership application then a simple post and everyone voting aye? Not once have I seen a nay vote on a membership application. It is humorous in a sad and pathetic way.
If no one else will, then I will confirm it as true. Hate me, flog me if you want, but the truth is already out there. Whether it was stolen, or givin freely, it is still truth.
In a way, I am sort of glad this has happened. Many Senators and members of the CFS needed a swift kick in the ass, including me. I'm hoping this has opened the eyes of the CFS members. I'm not talking just the senators, but the members of those corporations. If they even care.
Participation has long been a problem. Well before the CA war. This I don't think is a secret.
This bill was brought up due to funding issues, funding issues that wouldn't exist if other funding bills which didn't compromise the integrity of the CFS would have passed. Cause and effect I suppose. Perhaps those previously defeated funding bills need to revisited? Perhaps it should also be noted how many corporation senators are not voting and contact them. If they don't respond, throw their access out and talk to the CEO of that corporation for a new one. If the CEO was the senator, then throw the corp out. Find out how many are really in the alliance and how many are not participating. If they are not participating, then they do not care. If they do not care, then they have no place here.
You can do anything you set your mind to. |
Talon SilverHawk
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Posted - 2004.01.08 22:19:00 -
[92]
Edited by: Talon SilverHawk on 08/01/2004 22:31:11
Sil what are you talking about I've denied nothing but the attack on my character.
Anyway all these leaks from a CFS senator sounds like someone trying to kill the new bill by discrediting it here. hmmm
Regards
Tal
What goes around comes around...
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Gravedancer
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Posted - 2004.01.08 23:09:00 -
[93]
 Quote:
Anyway all these leaks from a CFS senator sounds like someone trying to kill the new bill by discrediting it here. hmmm
Thankfully they appear to have succeeded, at least from what I've heard. My sources today are telling me that this latest bill was defeated in the CFS senate. Sanity appears to have won out in the end.
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2004.01.08 23:15:00 -
[94]
Good job too - now its for the CFS to pick up the pieces and look inwardly to sort out its structure and membeship.
Some fairly obvious and dramatic holes ahve appeared in their operations which unless they sort them will remain as fatal flaws.
People, the most surprising of people, will HELP the CFS if they cose the right way forward and get beyond this recent power-trip.
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Silinary
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Posted - 2004.01.08 23:31:00 -
[95]
Edited by: Silinary on 08/01/2004 23:32:49
Quote:
Sil what are you talking about I've denied nothing but the attack on my character.
My apologies Talon. Looking back I see you are right on that point.
You can do anything you set your mind to. |
Fargas
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Posted - 2004.01.09 01:57:00 -
[96]
Quote:
Quote: to help beat off
As far as I know, we did help out until you bailed. That's as far as that quote took you Talon. We didn't say we should fight your wars. m0o directed it's actions towards you. You as in the CFS. Not us in the EF.
So if I'm a bad spinner, what are you?
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JackDonkey
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Posted - 2004.01.09 03:01:00 -
[97]
If this proposal was to pass I think CFS would need a toll gate, not a monthly/weekly fee or anything of that nature. This is because a continual presence at a choke point and visable security would have to be displayed.
The FIX and beyond in the past has been a noob mining zone, because of the relative safety for the small beginner corps, like mine, but now we can no longer mine there because of npc's and no longer have interest in going there, especially with the draw of big rewards from agent missions, namely tech 2 blueprints.
I don't know why everyone cares about CFS and the bill saying that only cfs can have a player owned station in the FIX because of this scenario: The Empyrean Federation builds a station and fights with CFS, then one day Fargas says ok the Empyrean Federation lays claim to this region. It's already been tried and as shown in this thread the Empyrean Federation are quick to change sides, or make their own side. This must be the reason for that amendment and was cleary an excellent foresight on the CFS's part. They need to have only CFS stations in the FIX to keep it free (from now on when I say free I am not applying an isk value and mean that you are free from being shot up... idealy).
And what's with the comparisons to the FA, the FA has a toll, but to my knowledge you cannot mine there. So even if this toll is applied it's a different scenario, a big difference.
If the toll was say 100,000 per industrial going in and out and less for other non-industrial ships I wouldn't be against the idea. Although CFS would have to be able to provide confidence in people that they could keep you safe from harm in the area. If this was still pre castor and I was able to still mine bistot I would gladly pay the above amount for a higher level of security. I think this idea for CFS is a respectable proposal and it is not for us (non-CFS) to discuss as this is not the final enacted CFS law. We are talking about one fellows proposal here not CFS as a whole.
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Ends
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Posted - 2004.01.09 03:12:00 -
[98]
The bill has neither passed nor failed.
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2004.01.09 03:13:00 -
[99]
Edited by: Morkt Drak on 09/01/2004 03:17:39
Quote:
It's already been tried and as shown in this thread the Empyrean Federation are quick to change sides, or make their own side.
I think a CFS Bill banning anybody else from even accessing the area without payment, without any discussion with their "partners" or independents, clearly set out the "sides" here:
CFS versus "everybody else"
It had little to do with anybody or any other group's "alterior" motives Jack.
Or do you think everybody else should throw their arms in the air in jubilation and say "Yeah! I'll keep helping you fight the bad guys..and tell you what.. charge us for the priveledge, stop us mining with mobiles and impose taxes and tolls on us also whilst you are at it - Yeah - thats groovy!"
WNot.
Did you know that whilst all this was was going on and various CFS individuals and Corps were paying m0o-tolls the CFS was demanding that the EF could not.
Did you also miss the lack of any consultation with these same military partners or any representatives of independents and freelancers?
No you didn't notice any because they wasn't any.
Anyway its a redundant discussion as the CFS cannot enforce the Bill even if they voted it in.
Fact - they don't have the capability of imposing it.
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JackDonkey
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Posted - 2004.01.09 03:21:00 -
[100]
Sadly I cannot disagree with you Morkt.
I used the Empryean Federation as a possible scenario because it is known that they have tried to claim the Delve and before that they mentioned something about a few constellations. I could have used a hypothetical but it wouldv'e taken longer to explain.
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2004.01.09 03:29:00 -
[101]
Quote:
Sadly I cannot disagree with you Morkt.
I used the Empryean Federation as a possible scenario because it is known that they have tried to claim the Delve and before that they mentioned something about a few constellations. I could have used a hypothetical but it wouldv'e taken longer to explain.
Aye - though that Delve claim was Fargas on drugs I should add. 
In hindsight i hope the CFS learns from this, what angered most people the most, is the way both independents and "partners" alike were ignored totally whilst the Senate planned to cut them out of the area and impose illegal taxes and tolls on them.
Many of those people helped hunt pirates, helped fight m0o and also put sweat and tears into the stability of those regions. They were all stabbed in the back by the manner in which this was conducted..
Only swift public condemnation and the savy actions of a few CFS senators, unafraid of speaking out, may have saved them.
Not that you will ever see the powermonger Senators within the CFS admit that. 
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Fargas
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Posted - 2004.01.09 05:17:00 -
[102]
Edited by: Fargas on 09/01/2004 05:31:34
Quote:
Sadly I cannot disagree with you Morkt.
I used the Empryean Federation as a possible scenario because it is known that they have tried to claim the Delve and before that they mentioned something about a few constellations. I could have used a hypothetical but it wouldv'e taken longer to explain.
Yes I did in the roleplaying section of this forum. It wasn't meant to be a serious claim, it was meant for starting some kind of roleplaying with CFS and EF. It failed. I've already written that in that thread, look it up if you want to.
Way before that thread, we were told by Yodaron, Greg Tanner and Raindrop about CFS future plans. For example they admitted they had begun looking into bills declaring their view on playercontrolled mobile entities in space. Now they are starting to vote on them, not because of EF. And as we all know, that freedom is gone from the 'Free Space Bill'. This is not thanks to EF But because they have been planning this for a long time. You'd know that if you were in the loop with CFS.
But this thread ain't about telling the public what certain leading people of CFS have told me and us in EF in private discussions.. It's about them trying and perhaps wanting to remove the freedom totally for all but members of CFS.
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