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Drunk Driver
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.05.24 20:26:00 -
[91]
Surface combatants use sonar to detect submarines.
Eve warships could use sonar type modules to detect cloaked ships.
Skill levels, module efficiency, specialized ship types could all come into play.
Imagine a skilled cloaking pilot trying to stay ahead of a skilled detection pilot.
Could be lots of fun.
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Derovius Vaden
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Posted - 2007.05.24 20:35:00 -
[92]
 Originally by: Drunk Driver
Surface combatants use sonar to detect submarines.
Eve warships could use sonar type modules to detect cloaked ships.
Skill levels, module efficiency, specialized ship types could all come into play.
Imagine a skilled cloaking pilot trying to stay ahead of a skilled detection pilot.
Could be lots of fun.
1. There are specially trained sonar operators, due to the fact, to the layman, a whale looks like an enemy sub.
2. There is no medium for any such pulse to travel through in space, period.
Physics ftl.
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Princess Jodi
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.05.24 21:31:00 -
[93]
I haven't read the whole 4 pages, but the reason to make Cloaks use fuel is so that people cannot enter the system, cloak, and go afk all day long. That kind of ability effectively shuts down the system to any real operations, as the enemy will be able to freely spy on you and you cannot do anything about it.
Therefore, any fuel usage should be scaled is such a way that it is not possible to remain cloaked for very long. Certainly not all day.
A better solution might be Heat. Don't require actual usage of fuels, but make it so that the unit shuts off after 30 min or so.
While I'm not trying to Nerf cloaking, I think it is important to have SOME way to prevent a ship from remaining cloaked and invulnerable forever.
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Wylker
Caldari
Pyrrhus Sicarii
Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.24 21:54:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Derovius Vaden
Originally by: Drunk Driver
Surface combatants use sonar to detect submarines.
Eve warships could use sonar type modules to detect cloaked ships.
Skill levels, module efficiency, specialized ship types could all come into play.
Imagine a skilled cloaking pilot trying to stay ahead of a skilled detection pilot.
Could be lots of fun.
1. There are specially trained sonar operators, due to the fact, to the layman, a whale looks like an enemy sub.
2. There is no medium for any such pulse to travel through in space, period.
Physics ftl.
You're forgetting that eve is in fact based off fishtank physics and not space.
Reality ftw!
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Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.05.24 22:00:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Princess Jodi
I haven't read the whole 4 pages, but the reason to make Cloaks use fuel is so that people cannot enter the system, cloak, and go afk all day long. That kind of ability effectively shuts down the system to any real operations, as the enemy will be able to freely spy on you and you cannot do anything about it.
Therefore, any fuel usage should be scaled is such a way that it is not possible to remain cloaked for very long. Certainly not all day.
A better solution might be Heat. Don't require actual usage of fuels, but make it so that the unit shuts off after 30 min or so.
While I'm not trying to Nerf cloaking, I think it is important to have SOME way to prevent a ship from remaining cloaked and invulnerable forever.
The problem with all fuel-based methods is simply that in deep 0.0 there is no way to refuel. You have effectively made the module obsolete.
Plus the problem isn't "all day long", the only problem is "all day long, 7 days a week while afk". Any fuel method that didn't nerf legitimate uses of hte cloak wouldn't stop the afkers.
Some sort of timing/recharge is the best alternative, but again make the durations too short/too long to charge and again you have destroyed the module and ships.
Personally I don't think there is any issue. If you are that stressed about a AFK ship in local maybe you SHOULD go back to Empire. 0.0 is not supposed to be perfectly safe and secure.
<----------->
Factional Warfare:
The LowSec wars which never happened. |
Princess Euphoria
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Posted - 2007.05.24 22:54:00 -
[96]
Cloaks are fine, stop the forums spam  . Although making non-cvops cloakers a bit easier to find using scanprobes would be nice...
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CrestoftheStars
Perkone
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Posted - 2007.05.25 00:01:00 -
[97]
please stop making new treads about the same stuf.
i know cloaks are the all time whine of the month but please stop it.
(i would guess some major alliance have been hit heavely by it thats why but who knows)
be fair and make some balance...
as i have said before:
make local as npc corp chat (only comes up if you type).
make probes that can find cloaked ships, make a device which uncloak cloaked ships but with a cooldown timer of whatever would be fair and balenced 5-10 minutes whatever is fair for all.
___________________________________________
Humans take everything that is beautiful and sweet and turn it into something horrifying and ugly.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.05.25 00:06:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 24/05/2007 11:10:56
Saw this in another thread where LUKEC pointed this out as an idea.
What do people think? Would this be a reasonable "nerf" for the cloaks people constantly complain about?
Edit: You nuts, I didn't mean use "a ton of heavy water," I meant "just a little bit, so after a few hours of cloaking they would run out."
This wouldn't apply to covert ops cloaks, I would think.
Its a good stop-gap, but it would also need to apply to covert ships.
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Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
yoyaz
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Posted - 2007.05.25 00:09:00 -
[99]
me thinks its fine as is :P
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firepup82
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.05.25 01:15:00 -
[100]
Originally by: yoyaz
me thinks its fine as is :P
Me too. Cloaks using water....lol The stupidest thing I have heard of. Recons are supposed to stay hidden. Thats the point....right? Oh, someone gets a little paranoid because they see someone in local and thinks they are out to get them. As far as I'm concerned lose local. Then this little problem will take care of itself. 
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Agnar Koladrov
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2007.05.25 08:18:00 -
[101]
I haven`t read the complete topic, didn`t feel like doing so. Anyway.
Dark Shikari, I would much more prefer a system where the cloaksystem uses capacitor power which is coupled to ships sig radius. The more sigradius a ship has the more capacitor power it need to complete 1 cloaking cycle.
How to further intergrate it into covops, I dunno, perhaps with a bonus to make cap use lower, to they can still be a real covops.
________________________________________________
-- What a Revelation! --
Where was the creativty for speed/mass/etc when the tier2 Battlecruisers were designed? Why the same for each race BC? |
RuleoftheBone
Minmatar
Veto. Academy
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.05.25 08:23:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Drunk Driver
Surface combatants use sonar to detect submarines.
Eve warships could use sonar type modules to detect cloaked ships.
Skill levels, module efficiency, specialized ship types could all come into play.
Imagine a skilled cloaking pilot trying to stay ahead of a skilled detection pilot.
Could be lots of fun.
Read up a bit more regarding modern submarine warfare. Try www.subsim.com. Usually the only time a submarine is detected is either a mistake made by the crew or when a weapon is fired.
Not that EvE has any sort of physics model anyway 
"Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way"
General George Patton USA
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Iota Mordu
RAND Corporation
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Posted - 2007.05.25 08:27:00 -
[103]
/signed
Cov ops cloaks and stealth bombers should use no fuel, but everything else should use a little bit of fuel.
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Tintifish
Roid Terminators
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Posted - 2007.05.25 08:28:00 -
[104]
The problem with making cloaks consume stuff is that its a "nerf" to both ammo using ships, and to cap boosting ships.
A possibility, is to make it so you cant reload cloaks outside of stations. Give them charges, say a 1 min cycle time(can be stopped before its complete) and let a proto carry 30, impro 120 and a covert ops either not use them or carry something like 1500. However, they must be cheap and easy to produce, possibly similar to ammo, rather than cap boosters.
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Tintifish
Roid Terminators
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Posted - 2007.05.25 08:30:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Derovius Vaden
1. There are specially trained sonar operators, due to the fact, to the layman, a whale looks like an enemy sub.
2. There is no medium for any such pulse to travel through in space, period.
Physics ftl.
I would presume he does not literally mean a sonar, but some uber-insta-transdirectional-wave-emitter. 
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Belial02
Amarr
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.05.25 09:25:00 -
[106]
Just restrict em to covert ops/bombers with a mad CPU requirement. Ships MEANT TO be cloaked could then recieve a 99% bonus on fitting.
Or make it so you cant use any other module when its fitted. Atm its just everywhere and needs to be adressed for its plain ridiculous.
Originally by: Omeega
diplomacy is f1, f2, f3, really...
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jarni
Amarr
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.05.25 09:37:00 -
[107]
Edited by: jarni on 25/05/2007 09:38:02
the solution is easy
make all non dedicated cloaking ships use 80% of it¦s cpu to fit them
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Bienurdau Hywoaf
Minmatar
Matari Holo News Network
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Posted - 2007.05.25 09:40:00 -
[108]
We should move this to Ideas and Features.
Requiring the cloak to have a fuel cost seems reasonable.
I think the fuel cost should be dependent on a ship size.
The larger the ship the more it costs to use a cloak. This means that it'll take a lot more fuel to cloak a carrier than to cloak a cruiser for instance.
I do agree covert ops and recon should get a bonus to fuel consumption, might could even have a cloaking fuel skill to reduce fuel consumption.
You could also introduce rigs that might make cloaking take less fuel :).
Idea: Treaties
Idea: Jump Rigs |
Pesadel0
Ordem dos Templarios
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Posted - 2007.05.25 09:42:00 -
[109]
Originally by: jarni
Edited by: jarni on 25/05/2007 09:38:02
the solution is easy
make all non dedicated cloaking ships use 80% of it¦s cpu to fit them
This gets my Vote.
I was sworn to absolute secrecy BY CCP. |
Bienurdau Hywoaf
Minmatar
Matari Holo News Network
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Posted - 2007.05.25 09:49:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Pesadel0
Originally by: jarni
Edited by: jarni on 25/05/2007 09:38:02
the solution is easy
make all non dedicated cloaking ships use 80% of it¦s cpu to fit them
This gets my Vote.
They would need to introduce a dedicated cloaking hauling ship in that case.
Idea: Treaties
Idea: Jump Rigs |
Achaiah
Black Bag Ops
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Posted - 2007.05.25 09:52:00 -
[111]
I have an idea. How about nerfing the carebear whiners? It could cost strontium for them to post on the forum. 1000 stront/word + 10 for each time someone reads it. Or they could lose 2% CPU on all their ships for every whining nerf post they write (but to be fair, it should not be permanent. It could bleed of at a rate of 1% per week or so).
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Falacious Micutoe
Minmatar
Forsaken to the Core
Combined Planetary Union
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Posted - 2007.05.25 09:57:00 -
[112]
i'd agree to that, cloaking is fine as it is, for one you cant lock or fire whilst under the sheen, you cant cloak whilst sum1's locked onto you, your speed is nerfed by stupid amounts of the T1 devices so ffs quit whining about it, there's not a lot cloakers can do but reconassance and people have scouts for that cloaking devices are not worth their trouble unless its covert ops with a fast ship, its got enough limitations so stop with the whining please
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Davlos
Caldari
Omerta Syndicate
Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.05.25 10:07:00 -
[113]
/signed
I'm sick and tired of trying to hunt ISK farmers and not being able to catch them because all they will do is just ss and cloak. Hell, one of them has been doing this in a system two jumps away from me for about six months and he's still there.
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Falacious Micutoe
Minmatar
Forsaken to the Core
Combined Planetary Union
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Posted - 2007.05.25 10:13:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Davlos
/signed
I'm sick and tired of trying to hunt ISK farmers and not being able to catch them because all they will do is just ss and cloak. Hell, one of them has been doing this in a system two jumps away from me for about six months and he's still there.
that's easily tackled, wait for their transport to come, which evetually it will, and blow that up, just camp the bugger til he disappears from local
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insulubria
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Posted - 2007.05.25 10:14:00 -
[115]
fuel for cloak? wow, just WOW. I mean the audacity of some people is amazing.
cloaks already have penalty's much like a WCS that has a effect online or offline (not active inactive)
If you didn't show up in local when you were cloaked the isk farming ravens wouldn't see you coming would they.
jumps in the last hour, ships killed should still register all the same, when things are too quite, think before jumping :P
TBH some of you people have to GROW UP.
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Crimson Magician
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.05.25 10:19:00 -
[116]
capital and super capitals shouldnt be able to cloak at all. being able to is just ludicrous tbh.
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Falacious Micutoe
Minmatar
Forsaken to the Core
Combined Planetary Union
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Posted - 2007.05.25 10:20:00 -
[117]
Originally by: insulubria
fuel for cloak? wow, just WOW. I mean the audacity of some people is amazing.
cloaks already have penalty's much like a WCS that has a effect online or offline (not active inactive)
If you didn't show up in local when you were cloaked the isk farming ravens wouldn't see you coming would they.
jumps in the last hour, ships killed should still register all the same, when things are too quite, think before jumping :P
TBH some of you people have to GROW UP.
i like you we share opinions
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Cordial Ripper
Minmatar
g guild
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Posted - 2007.05.25 10:21:00 -
[118]
i haven read all the replys but honestly i dotn have to.
for the guy that sugested:
Dude cause of ppl like u this game evolved in to a wrong direction in many ways.
to all who agreed with him:
if u want to make eve look more real please invent a croak in RL if not STFU
and to all who said what CCP dint intedend u to cloak captial ships or bs's
look carefuly at module description it has certain penaltys so if u want to use it u will definetly have a drawback. it's only fair to keep the cloak modules as they are
sorry for the direct aproch but i am sick of whiners
respects to all who agree with me
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Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.05.25 10:27:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Tintifish
The problem with making cloaks consume stuff is that its a "nerf" to both ammo using ships, and to cap boosting ships.
I think its more of a "nerf" to people sitting in local in a cloaked megathron for 15 hours straight.
--23 Member--
Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! |
BLAIYNE
Old Farts
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.05.25 10:30:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Terazuk
This nerf/boost culture is getting way out of hand
QFT.
It seems everyone that uses a particular module/ship is trying to get every module/ship they don't use nerfed, especially if they are beaten/frustrated by someone using something they don't use.
The beauty of Eve is that you can specialise in different things. Just because you've specialised in something that someone else hasn't, it doesn't mean it should be nerfed so you don't have an advantage over them.
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